Girlfriend difficulties - end it?

[whattodo]

Hi All,

I am a long time member here but have created a new user name for this discussion, some may be able to guess why.  I know there are a lot of smart and level headed people here that I hope can give me advice. 

I know this guy who’s been with a lovely  woman for the last 4 years.  They live together in the house he owns.  She is pretty mustachian and he will loose the money she pays for rent and about half the food budget if she leaves.  It won't break him, just slow his FI date.  The relationship has always been both volatile and difficult and he doesn’t like that in general. 

On a Friday evening they argued at home, and during this argument she pushed/hit him from behind into a wall.  Then later she slammed his laptop screen down on his hands, and after that threw his phone across the room into the wall.

On Sunday, she locked him in the basement of the house for an hour by blocking the stairwell physically so that he either stayed where he was or he had to physically move her, he chose the former.

He is now saying he is breaking up with her.  She won’t accept this and she is saying she won’t leave and to this end forced him to sleep in the same bed with her last night, even though he tried not to.  I think it was an uncomfortable night for him.

She is saying that we need to compromise more in the relationship and the reason she gets so angry is because she cares so much.

Should he break up with her or try to work it out?  She says these things happen in all relationships, he doesn’t know because he is not very good or experienced at relationships?

If they do break up how should he get her to leave his home if she is refusing?

[iris lily]

Physical abuse is the deal breaker. Rid yourself of her. In case you are even on the fence about it, please think ahead to: how would she treat your children? your pets? Nope.

Getting her her to "accept" it means that you make your decision and stand firm. No engaging with her other than very polite and distant. You move all of your stuff to a different room

As to how you move her out, the mechanics of it--it sounds difficult if your house is her legal residence. I hope someone here will have some practical steps for you to follow.

[Gin1984]

Holy shit!  Yes, break up with her.  That is abuse.  My recommendation is you speak to police and file a restraining order.  That would allow you to evict her faster (at least in my state).  Please take pictures of any evidence of what she did for the restraining order and to protect yourself from getting accused of doing it.

[Gimesalot]

This is classic abuse.  There is no way around that.  The guy in this relationship needs to leave ASAP!  Her behavior is NOT acceptable.  It will only get worse.

I have arguments in my relationship as well, I would never hit my SO and he would never hit me. 

Please get help, and get out.  There are organizations that help with domestic violent and abuse.  Seek them out and run away.  Set up a new temporary life, and have her evicted from the house. 

[guitar_stitch]

She's a fuckin' psycho!  This isn't even a question.  The first sign of physical violence would have been the last day with her, followed by a trip to the courthouse for eviction paperwork and a domestic violence injunction.  It will only get worse from there.

[totoro]

Yes, I would say end it now if you have doubts. 

In my experience,  really great relationships are great from the start.  There is not a lot of volatility or difficulty.  Hard times might occur, but they don't involve physical violence and throwing things. 

Think about how this might play out when stress increases if you have kids.

As far as getting her out goes, if she won't accept leaving the ultimate end remedy is a court order.  You probably won't get to that point if you make it clear that the relationship is over.  No-one can "force" you to sleep in the same bed with them btw.  Doing so does not send a clear message.

One solution if you've given her notice to the end of the month (or sooner) and she does leave might be taking a day off work, packing her stuff, and changing the locks.   Not sure of the landlord tenant rules where you are but where I live they don't apply to room-mate situations like yours.

[whattodo]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  Its difficult for a guy in his forties to admit this is happening, he feels really dumb.  What about throwing things, is that common/acceptable for women to do in relationships?

[UnleashHell]

Physical abuse is what it is. no excuses. get out of the relationship now. file a complaint with the police - you need this documented in case she's mad enough to start accusing you.

[Gin1984]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  Its difficult for a guy in his forties to admit this is happening, he feels really dumb.  What about throwing things, is that common/acceptable for women to do in relationships?

Don't feel dumb, it happens to a lot of smart people.  And no, in non-abusive relationships women don't throw things.  In fact, doing that, and cause other damage to objects is often a warning sign for abuse.  Please, please get out of there.  Let us know if there is anything we can do.  That includes finding a domestic abuse lawyer (or advocate group).  Please stay safe.

[Gin1984]

Physical abuse is what it is. no excuses. get out of the relationship now. file a complaint with the police - you need this documented in case she's mad enough to start accusing you.

This happens A LOT!  Abusers turn the police on their victims.  Please cover your ass and take pictures and go to the police ASAP.

[Cheddar Stacker]

Conflicts happen. Arguments happen. Maybe saying a few things you can't take back happens every now and then. Physical abuse is inexcusable. Destruction of property is inexcusable. Forcing someone to sleep in the same bed with you is inexcusable. If I were in his shoes I would've either complied with that request or left immediately, because this sounds like a Lorena Bobbit (spelling?) type situation.

Breakup, restraining order, eviction. FI should not even be considered in this equation. Do what is safe, not what is financially smart.

[whattodo]

One difficult part is they are both professionals and work in the same place.  So involving police etc. could embarrass them both at work.  I think he will have to just stand firm for a while and see how it goes.

The sleeping situation is odd.  There are no locks on the doors and so where he went she just kept getting in that bed.

[OneDogGP]

I'd have to agree with the others and would advise calling the police the next time she gets abusive with you.  That would at least start to provide a record of behavior that you might need down the road.

And I wouldn't advise packing her things and changing the locks on her.  I'm not sure if the laws are the same for you, but in Texas you have to go through an eviction process, otherwise you might end up getting sued by her for up to 6 months living costs, (ie another apartment rental) moving costs and possibly legal costs.

I had a "friend" that I let stay with me while she was unemployed and things turned bad.  Fortunately she moved out and I didn't have to go through the eviction process, but if I did it would have cost around $300 and I would have to give her time to move out.  If I remember correctly, it required posting an eviction notice where they would see it, a 30 day period for them to find a new place and then hiring a constable to perform the eviction. 

Good luck and I hope it goes easy for you. 

[Gin1984]

I'd have to agree with the others and would advise calling the police the next time she gets abusive with you.  That would at least start to provide a record of behavior that you might need down the road.

And I wouldn't advise packing her things and changing the locks on her.  I'm not sure if the laws are the same for you, but in Texas you have to go through an eviction process, otherwise you might end up getting sued by her for up to 6 months living costs, (ie another apartment rental) moving costs and possibly legal costs.

I had a "friend" that I let stay with me while she was unemployed and things turned bad.  Fortunately she moved out and I didn't have to go through the eviction process, but if I did it would have cost around $300 and I would have to give her time to move out.  If I remember correctly, it required posting an eviction notice where they would see it, a 30 day period for them to find a new place and then hiring a constable to perform the eviction. 

Good luck and I hope it goes easy for you.

Many states have an expedited eviction proceeding if there is abuse.  But that does require the restraining order and dealing with the cops.

[Stellar]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  Its difficult for a guy in his forties to admit this is happening, he feels really dumb.  What about throwing things, is that common/acceptable for women to do in relationships?

It's not really acceptable for anyone to behave in this manner.  She sounds very unstable.  What if her fits of range get worse and she hurts him permanently? 

 

[Frankies Girl]

She is saying that we need to compromise more in the relationship and the reason she gets so angry is because she cares so much.

No, fuck no, that does not happen in all relationships... only abusive ones. I'm a woman and I'm telling you right now that stuff is not normal. No, not even throwing things - that is childish and stupid behavior. She escalates the fight so that she automatically scares you into backing off - it's controlling and abusive behavior.

She is a bad person with a serious problem. She doesn't "care so much" - she just expects and demands control and complete obedience and when she doesn't get that... you probably make her so angry that she blows, and then blames you for the anger and abuse. This is CLASSIC ABUSER behavior. She makes it your fault or that she's just so passionate that she gets carried away? Bullshit. She's a grown woman acting like a bully and reckless asshole. Dump her ass as soon as possible.

http://www.wikihow.com/Get-Out-of-an-Abusive-Relationship

Call a lawyer and get professional advice on getting her out of your house and out of your life. I definitely would tell your close friends and family members what is going on, and make sure you remove sentimental/valuables from the property (store at a good friends or something while she's at work) and make sure to take pictures of the property and/or have witnesses so you can prove what state you left it in and sue her ass if she damages anything, serve her eviction notice (according to your lawyer's advice) and stay away until she's gone. Hell, I'd possibly even file charges with the police but check with your lawyer to see what they think would be the quickest way to get free of this psycho.

You have nothing to be embarrassed about - she is an abusive asshole, NOT YOU.  You deserve to have a partner that respects you and listens to you and can have disagreements without laying hands on you or being abusive in any way!

And get professional counseling. You don't deserve to be treated like this, and the fact that you felt like this might be okay even for a little while let alone years is a good sign that you have your own self esteem problems to work through. Hugs and stay safe!

[Spork]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  Its difficult for a guy in his forties to admit this is happening, he feels really dumb.  What about throwing things, is that common/acceptable for women to do in relationships?

It is not common nor is is acceptable.

I'll admit to you I experienced/felt much of the same issues in my mid 20s.  Call this sexist if you will, but I was taught that under NO circumstances do you ever hit a woman.  And for several years I repeatedly found myself in the situation where there was volatile shouting, shoving, throwing things, etc.   It did bad things for my self esteem and just thoroughly made me question everything.


Getting out was -- hands down -- the best thing that ever happened to me.  After a bit of sorting things out, I entered a relationship that was 100% absolutely the opposite.  It's worked for 20 years and I do not foresee a situation where it will stop working.   Things can get better.

[Gin1984]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  Its difficult for a guy in his forties to admit this is happening, he feels really dumb.  What about throwing things, is that common/acceptable for women to do in relationships?

It is not common nor is is acceptable.

I'll admit to you I experienced/felt much of the same issues in my mid 20s.  Call this sexist if you will, but I was taught that under NO circumstances do you ever hit a woman. And for several years I repeatedly found myself in the situation where there was volatile shouting, shoving, throwing things, etc.   It did bad things for my self esteem and just thoroughly made me question everything.


Getting out was -- hands down -- the best thing that ever happened to me.  After a bit of sorting things out, I entered a relationship that was 100% absolutely the opposite.  It's worked for 20 years and I do not foresee a situation where it will stop working.   Things can get better.

I'd say, especially in this case, DO NOT HIT HER BACK.  If you do call the cops they will blame the man if she has bruises.  The best thing to do, in that case, is restrain, if you can without harming either of you.  But honestly, the number one best is call the cops now and get her out of your home.  I understand it may hurt at work, but is your job worth your life?  Abusers escalate.

[Cheddar Stacker]

Stay with friends until she leaves.   Once she is out, get the locks re-keyed. 

It's a good thought, but be careful with this advice. I'm not an attorney, but I've heard divorce attorney's say leaving the residence is a terrible thing to do since the person residing in the house can have more rights to that home than the owner. No idea if this is legitimate, and I'm sure it would vary by state. Either way, just be careful about giving up where you live. Talk to a lawyer, soon.

[whattodo]

This really is very helpful.  Thank you everyone!  I was thinking at one point that the one way he might stay is if she agreed to get counseling.  But from what everyone is saying its just not worth that risk.

[rocksinmyhead]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  Its difficult for a guy in his forties to admit this is happening, he feels really dumb.  What about throwing things, is that common/acceptable for women to do in relationships?

Don't feel dumb. And no, that is not normal. I consider myself a little bit of a nutcase/emotional wreck and even I have never thrown anything.

Physical abuse is what it is. no excuses. get out of the relationship now. file a complaint with the police - you need this documented in case she's mad enough to start accusing you.

This happens A LOT!  Abusers turn the police on their victims.  Please cover your ass and take pictures and go to the police ASAP.

Wow, didn't even think of that. Good advice.

I'm not sure what to legally do about the living situation, but a quick google of "domestic abuse resources for men" turned up several websites, so they may have ideas. You're definitely not the only one!!

[Gin1984]

This really is very helpful.  Thank you everyone!  I was thinking at one point that the one way he might stay is if she agreed to get counseling.  But from what everyone is saying its just not worth that risk.

The only reason I'd agree to consider counseling is to get her to move out and keep you safe. 

[whattodo]

Crap.  This is going to be difficult.  I know she still believes the relationship can be repaired.  I don't know how a person gets into these situations.  It seems like one is trapped in their own home.

[2ndTimer]

Another female here.  Physical violence from either partner is a deal breaker.  Doesn't matter if she's female.  If you tolerate it, it will get worse.  A small or even a big financial loss is nothing compared to going to jail, the male partner is far more likely to have this happen even if she is the violent one. 

[Gin1984]

Crap.  This is going to be difficult.  I know she still believes the relationship can be repaired.  I don't know how a person gets into these situations.  It seems like one is trapped in their own home.

That is one of the horrid things with abuse.  Abusers often seem like great people and it is just with time that their hidden personality comes out and by then, often the chosen victim is trapped.  One of the most dangerous times for a victim of abuse is when they try to leave, that time often is when the abuser ramps up the abuse.  The idea, if I can't have you, no one can. 

[MayDay]

You should really just cut to the chase, call a lawyer, and find out exactly what you need to do in your state, and do it now.  The more you drag it out, the worse it will become. 

I'm not sure that working together matters.  If she chooses to freak out about it, it won't reflect badly on you as long as you are handling yourself in a mature and responsible way.  Break up, ask her to move out, heck, offer her 1000$ for her first month's rent if she is out by the end of the week, and once she leaves, re-key all the locks (will be about 100$ to have a locksmith do it).  If your lawyer says it's ok, of course. 

[Bob W]

Whether you stay in this relationship will come down to if you perceive the benefits outweigh the problems.   I have friends in similar situations that chose to remain and just deal with it.   (see below for a recommendation on dealing from your end)

The problem for most of them is the unknown after the spilt.  Dating and finding a suitable future mate.  It could end up miraculously great, but the reality is that there just aren't that many 40ish single women out there who are great people, nice looking,  in good health,  with good incomes and spending histories that are also not on the psycho spectrum.  If you want an independent one, finding one that would also want you might be very rare indeed.  Most of the 40ish women will also come with baggage of kids and divorces.  One has to ask if a woman is 40ish,  has no kids, never been married and has all these great attributes, why that just doesn't add up?

Probably only 7% of the female population falls into your desired age category.  Of that maybe 80% are in relationships.  So you are down to around one in 100-200 being available.  Of those maybe 10% meet the above criteria.  So  you're looking at maybe 1 in a thousand.  Add that she also has to be into you and the odds get very close to zero.  (sorry to be such a downer here)   

I would also suggest you read Harley's book or web site titled "His Needs, Her Needs."   If you follow his recommendations for what "you" should do, I have found that "her" actions will become much more in line with what you want.  I would give the Harley method a college try for 3-6 months and keep detailed notes.  You see, by changing your behaviors it automatically changes the other persons. 

Under no circumstance should you marry this person.  And I mean at least until there is 3 or 4 years of peace and joy.

Regarding the physical abuse --- I don't see that as a big a deal as the psychological abuse.  Being whopped by a woman or locked in the basement is not that bad in the scope of things.   But constant control issues coupled with random intermittent psycho episodes would make it difficult to love someone.   The Harley method essentially gives you a guide for faking it till you make it.   Once you give the love the SO will likely return the love in a manner that makes you fall madly in love with them. 

So my answer after all said above is to --- Buy the Harley book --"His Needs,  Her Needs" and follow it to a T. 

Good luck our friend!

[Allen]

So few questions here have such easy, clear answers.  End the relationship immediately it will only escalate and trust me I know, my wife is a domestic violence perpetrator treatment provider. 

End it end it end it end it.

DOING this feels harder than it really is, but there is no other outcome that is positive.

[Spork]

Regarding the physical abuse --- I don't see that as a big a deal as the psychological abuse.  Being whopped by a woman or locked in the basement is not that bad in the scope of things.   But constant control issues coupled with random intermittent psycho episodes would make it difficult to love someone.   The Harley method essentially gives you a guide for faking it till you make it.   Once you give the love the SO will likely return the love in a manner that makes you fall madly in love with them. 

I'm going to disagree a little.  If you've ever been hit by a heavy object swung by a woman, you'll find it hurts quite a lot.  And it can be very unnerving to sleep while you're considering that she might very well attack you as you sleep.

[Mother Fussbudget]

Have your friend seek legal advice.  Locks on bedroom doors can be installed in minutes, and should be job #1.  The fact that you share a workplace and home space complicates things, and will probably lead to blow-over into worklife.   Do not worry about the home / workplace spillover - instead, proactively speak with your manager and/or Human Resources, and explain the situation in confidence (especially the abuse) BEFORE it becomes a problem at work, and seek whatever help is available through the workplace.

She's right - couples do argue, but they don't throw things, and treat others like prisoners.  The abuse is clear here, and therefore sets a different and more urgent bar.  IMHO your friend should seek BOTH counseling and legal advice.

[red7]

I just want to say that it takes a lot of courage to admit something like this is happening, especially for a guy. It's not easy to deal with the fact that you (a smart person!) have been sucked into an abusive relationship. It can be hard to trust your own decision-making process after realizing it. I 100% agree with the other posters to get some documentation going (police report, restraining order, something) now, so that the abuser can't turn the tables later. A consultation with an attorney or other counselor who specializes in domestic abuse situations is also an excellent idea and needs to happen ASAP.

I found myself in a somewhat similar situation in my first year of college. There was no physical abuse but lots of emotional abuse, which in my opinion is even worse. I knew something wasn't quite right but couldn't put my finger on it, and so I didn't leave because what reason did I have? This person was "lovely" (as you said) in every other way. Eventually, during a fit of anger in an argument, this person confessed that they fantasized about how good it would feel to hit me. To make me hurt the way I was "hurting" them. It was a terrifying wake up call. (I still have no idea what I did to make them think I was hurting them or to cause so much anger. Mostly because it was abuse and that's what abusers do to keep you in the relationship.)

I broke up with them a few days later, but we were still living under the same roof for about another month. To top it off, we were also carpooling to school together -- and I had no other mode of transportation available to me. I was locked in a car with my abuser for at least 35 minutes twice a day...it was not a comfortable situation, to say the least. Honestly, in a situation where we worked together, I would've been looking for a new job ASAP. I doubt it will be possible to keep this craziness out of the workplace, and abusers are master manipulators. You just don't know what she might be able to convince other people to believe. And she *will* try to convince them she's perfectly reasonable and you are the crazy one. Her livelihood may depend on it.

When this person gets the break up news, they will respond with a tidal wave of emotional attacks and likely some physical ones too (given that they've already gone there). Stay calm and firm. Do NOT allow them to draw you in to one of their emotional booby-traps. They will get angry and demand to know why you are doing this to them. They will insist that you are the one being mean and hurtful and an unreasonable bully. They will likely throw things and try to damage anything that is meaningful to you. They may try to hit you. Stay as far away from them as you can. You must stay strong and *calmly* reiterate that the relationship is not working and you think it best to end it and move on. They will promise to do better. They will promise that it was just because they love you so much. They will promise you the sun and the moon and the stars. Don't listen to them. They are lying. Every Single Word is a lie designed to make you feel crazy and unreasonable, and convince you to stay. DON'T.

Make sure anything that is valuable or important to you is out of the house before having the break-up/move-out conversation. And have the police on speed dial. You should probably keep your phone with you at all times starting now, and you might want to start recording anytime you feel unsafe, even if it's just a voice recording (so it's not obvious that you're doing it).

[magga]

Not sure how this would suddenly happen "after four years of being a lovely person?"  Were there signs of abusive behavior before now or is something else going on with her?

[justajane]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  Its difficult for a guy in his forties to admit this is happening, he feels really dumb.  What about throwing things, is that common/acceptable for women to do in relationships?

I guess I'm the only one on here, but I've thrown things before in frustration, just not in the context of a romantic relationship. I threw my cell phone down on the ground once in a fit of postpartum frustration after my baby had been crying for hours. I've probably thrown other things before. I'm not proud of it, but I am not an abuser. I would be interested in someone weighing in who has training in abuse. Can someone be a thrower without being an abuser? If not, I am rather worried about what rests beneath my psychological surface.

I would take a much harder line about the physical violence rather than the throwing, although throwing something across the room could inadvertently cause physical violence. Say you marry this woman and you and she are in a fight. Perhaps she throws something and a kid walks in the room and gets hit.

Do you think counseling could solve her anger issues? 

[Gin1984]

Regarding the physical abuse --- I don't see that as a big a deal as the psychological abuse.  Being whopped by a woman or locked in the basement is not that bad in the scope of things.   But constant control issues coupled with random intermittent psycho episodes would make it difficult to love someone.   The Harley method essentially gives you a guide for faking it till you make it.   Once you give the love the SO will likely return the love in a manner that makes you fall madly in love with them. 

I'm going to disagree a little.  If you've ever been hit by a heavy object swung by a woman, you'll find it hurts quite a lot.  And it can be very unnerving to sleep while you're considering that she might very well attack you as you sleep.

Depending on where you hit, it does not always take a lot of force to cause a lot of damage.  I've learned to fight men and as a 5'2 woman who was a much smaller girl while learning, I know how to damage someone a great deal.  Please don't stay in that kind of situation.

[whattodo]

It hasn't suddenly happened.  Its happened before and after the last time of this big of a blow up, he said to himself that if it happened again he would break up with her.  That was about 6 months ago.  There tends to be about one really stressful argument each week, always, with her indicating he has done/said something wrong. 

Things have been pretty bad for the last three weeks before this.  One thought is that its just a stressful/difficult time for her and she'll get passed it.

That's why the question was asked here.  Is this normal, or is it a bigger problem?  That said, I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. 

[Gin1984]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  Its difficult for a guy in his forties to admit this is happening, he feels really dumb.  What about throwing things, is that common/acceptable for women to do in relationships?

I guess I'm the only one on here, but I've thrown things before in frustration, just not in the context of a romantic relationship. I threw my cell phone down on the ground once in a fit of postpartum frustration after my baby had been crying for hours. I've probably thrown other things before. I'm not proud of it, but I am not an abuser. I would be interested in someone weighing in who has training in abuse. Can someone be a thrower without being an abuser? If not, I am rather worried about what rests beneath my psychological surface.

I would take a much harder line about the physical violence rather than the throwing, although throwing something across the room could inadvertently cause physical violence. Say you marry this woman and you and she are in a fight. Perhaps she throws something and a kid walks in the room and gets hit.

Do you think counseling could solve her anger issues?

I do have some training in it.  I did my undergrad in psych and did volunteer work at an abused women's shelter, which is where the majority of my training comes from.  Women are more likely to throw things then men, who often hit an object.  However, the majority do escalate to harming.   This is not always but I personally would speak to a counselor.  It may have been a reaction to the hormones after postpartum and stress, but I can't say that.  Could it come to a point where you are under this level of stress again?  That is a question I can't answer.  But, you have one positive, you do realize that throwing things could cause damage, that is a positive.

[Gin1984]

It hasn't suddenly happened.  Its happened before and after the last time of this big of a blow up, he said to himself that if it happened again he would break up with her.  That was about 6 months ago.  There tends to be about one really stressful argument each week, always, with her indicating he has done/said something wrong. 

Things have been pretty bad for the last three weeks before this.  One thought is that its just a stressful/difficult time for her and she'll get passed it.

That's why the question was asked here.  Is this normal, or is it a bigger problem?  That said, I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.

The problem is that reacting to stress by lashing out is not ok.  And once she has done it once, often it gets worse.  I personally would not want to risk it.  Those who do often end up a lot more harmed because it escalates.

[Cheddar Stacker]

It hasn't suddenly happened.  Its happened before and after the last time of this big of a blow up, he said to himself that if it happened again he would break up with her.  That was about 6 months ago.  There tends to be about one really stressful argument each week, always, with her indicating he has done/said something wrong. 

Things have been pretty bad for the last three weeks before this.  One thought is that its just a stressful/difficult time for her and she'll get passed it.

That's why the question was asked here.  Is this normal, or is it a bigger problem?  That said, I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.

Now I'm confused. This whole time you've framed this as "your friend" but at the end you of this quoted part you state "I'm not perfect". It really doesn't matter if it's you or a friend, I wouldn't change my advice.

You teach people how to treat you. If they abuse you and you take it, they will keep doing it. If you stand up for yourself it likely won't stop due to the years of history. This relationship needs to end to be fixed.

[epipenguin]

It hasn't suddenly happened.  Its happened before and after the last time of this big of a blow up, he said to himself that if it happened again he would break up with her.  That was about 6 months ago.  There tends to be about one really stressful argument each week, always, with her indicating he has done/said something wrong. 

Things have been pretty bad for the last three weeks before this.  One thought is that its just a stressful/difficult time for her and she'll get passed it.

That's why the question was asked here.  Is this normal, or is it a bigger problem?  That said, I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.

This is absolutely NOT normal. Please try to end the relationship ASAP.

[TrMama]

Whether you stay in this relationship will come down to if you perceive the benefits outweigh the problems.   I have friends in similar situations that chose to remain and just deal with it.   (see below for a recommendation on dealing from your end)

The problem for most of them is the unknown after the spilt.  Dating and finding a suitable future mate.  It could end up miraculously great, but the reality is that there just aren't that many 40ish single women out there who are great people, nice looking,  in good health,  with good incomes and spending histories that are also not on the psycho spectrum.  If you want an independent one, finding one that would also want you might be very rare indeed.  Most of the 40ish women will also come with baggage of kids and divorces.  One has to ask if a woman is 40ish,  has no kids, never been married and has all these great attributes, why that just doesn't add up?

Probably only 7% of the female population falls into your desired age category.  Of that maybe 80% are in relationships.  So you are down to around one in 100-200 being available.  Of those maybe 10% meet the above criteria.  So  you're looking at maybe 1 in a thousand.  Add that she also has to be into you and the odds get very close to zero.  (sorry to be such a downer here)   

Regarding the physical abuse --- I don't see that as a big a deal as the psychological abuse.  Being whopped by a woman or locked in the basement is not that bad in the scope of things. 

Did you really just argue that an abusive relationship is better than no relationship at all? Really?

Did you also just argue that being locked in a basement is no big deal?

I feel like I'm in some other dimension reading this post.

[Left]

Whether you stay in this relationship will come down to if you perceive the benefits outweigh the problems.   I have friends in similar situations that chose to remain and just deal with it.   (see below for a recommendation on dealing from your end)

The problem for most of them is the unknown after the spilt.  Dating and finding a suitable future mate.  It could end up miraculously great, but the reality is that there just aren't that many 40ish single women out there who are great people, nice looking,  in good health,  with good incomes and spending histories that are also not on the psycho spectrum.  If you want an independent one, finding one that would also want you might be very rare indeed.  Most of the 40ish women will also come with baggage of kids and divorces.  One has to ask if a woman is 40ish,  has no kids, never been married and has all these great attributes, why that just doesn't add up?

Probably only 7% of the female population falls into your desired age category.  Of that maybe 80% are in relationships.  So you are down to around one in 100-200 being available.  Of those maybe 10% meet the above criteria.  So  you're looking at maybe 1 in a thousand.  Add that she also has to be into you and the odds get very close to zero.  (sorry to be such a downer here)   

Regarding the physical abuse --- I don't see that as a big a deal as the psychological abuse.  Being whopped by a woman or locked in the basement is not that bad in the scope of things. 

Did you really just argue that an abusive relationship is better than no relationship at all? Really?

Did you also just argue that being locked in a basement is no big deal?

I feel like I'm in some other dimension reading this post.

hm... yeah, I'm a bit confused as well, and wondering who he has in his basement locked up?... nah, jk but still confused how this is not a big deal

OP on the money side, can't he just get a roommate if he wants to split living costs with someone?

[cpa cat]

I think that the relationship should be ended.

That said, if your friend does decide to work on it - he should only agree to the counseling option if she moves out. They can consider moving in again in the future, when things are less volatile - if the relationship survives.

[justajane]

I just assumed the OP was speaking in the second person but was actually referring to himself.

I do have some training in it.  I did my undergrad in psych and did volunteer work at an abused women's shelter, which is where the majority of my training comes from.  Women are more likely to throw things then men, who often hit an object.  However, the majority do escalate to harming.   This is not always but I personally would speak to a counselor.  It may have been a reaction to the hormones after postpartum and stress, but I can't say that.  Could it come to a point where you are under this level of stress again?  That is a question I can't answer.  But, you have one positive, you do realize that throwing things could cause damage, that is a positive.

Interesting. Thanks. Can I push you a bit though? By working at an abused women's shelter, you encountered those that did escalate to harming. In that sense, there might be some selective bias going on.

Life with young children is stressful, so, yes, of course I could encounter this kind of stress again. I am aware of my failings and proclivities (i.e. I let frustration build and then it can explode), but I've just never thought of myself as someone who is any more prone to violence than the next person. I think of my past couple throwing experiences along the same lines as someone who cuts - the pressure in your noggin is so profound that you find a way to outwardly express your inner turmoil. Would you say a cutter is someone more prone to violence as a whole?

I guess my question is - for those of us who might struggle with anger/depression issues - are we all just one step away from becoming Ray Rice/Susan Smith/insert violent abuser or murderer? Based on the responses to the OP, it appears that is the overall perception.

I had a friend whose husband once punched a hole in the wall. This was before they had four kids. Now they have a terrible marriage (hence why he punched the wall in the first place), but in the 15 years since he did that, he has never raised a hand to her or the children. In his case, it appears to not have been a sign of his pending abuse. 

I guess this thread has really bothered me, in that I think some of the responses have been pretty extreme. Has what she has done really reached the level of a restraining order or that the person should fear for his life? I'm not saying it couldn't, but thankfully it hasn't reached that level. What she is doing is no doubt unacceptable, but I balk at the thought that she is a psycho, beyond redemption, or someone that no healthy person should be around. 

Having said that, this doesn't sound like a healthy relationship. You have indicated that this isn't a one time thing, and if this was something that you had previously said would lead to you initiating a break-up then I would probably follow through. Just because she can be saved through counseling or other measures doesn't mean that you have to stay in the relationship or help her through her issues.

[Catbert]

In addition to the above advice you might get a nanny-cam or similar to record what happens when you break up with her.  I think there is even a phone app for abused women that will record sound and video of an incident. 

As others have mentioned since she pays rent, she is definitely a tenant.  Find out what you'll need to do to legally evict her if it comes to that before you have the break-up conversation.

If you were married with three kids it might be worth exploring anger management counseling.  But dating and even living together is to find out if you're a match.  In this case, you aren't.

[Gin1984]

I just assumed the OP was speaking in the second person but was actually referring to himself.

I do have some training in it.  I did my undergrad in psych and did volunteer work at an abused women's shelter, which is where the majority of my training comes from.  Women are more likely to throw things then men, who often hit an object.  However, the majority do escalate to harming.   This is not always but I personally would speak to a counselor.  It may have been a reaction to the hormones after postpartum and stress, but I can't say that.  Could it come to a point where you are under this level of stress again?  That is a question I can't answer.  But, you have one positive, you do realize that throwing things could cause damage, that is a positive.

Interesting. Thanks. Can I push you a bit though? By working at an abused women's shelter, you encountered those that did escalate to harming. In that sense, there might be some selective bias going on.

Life with young children is stressful, so, yes, of course I could encounter this kind of stress again. I am aware of my failings and proclivities (i.e. I let frustration build and then it can explode), but I've just never thought of myself as someone who is any more prone to violence than the next person. I think of my past couple throwing experiences along the same lines as someone who cuts - the pressure in your noggin is so profound that you find a way to outwardly express your inner turmoil. Would you say a cutter is someone more prone to violence as a whole?

I guess my question is - for those of us who might struggle with anger/depression issues - are we all just one step away from becoming Ray Rice/Susan Smith/insert violent abuser or murderer? Based on the responses to the OP, it appears that is the overall perception.

I had a friend whose husband once punched a hole in the wall. This was before they had four kids. Now they have a terrible marriage (hence why he punched the wall in the first place), but in the 15 years since he did that, he has never raised a hand to her or the children. In his case, it appears to not have been a sign of his pending abuse. 

I guess this thread has really bothered me, in that I think some of the responses have been pretty extreme. Has what she has done really reached the level of a restraining order or that the person should fear for his life? I'm not saying it couldn't, but thankfully it hasn't reached that level. What she is doing is no doubt unacceptable, but I balk at the thought that she is a psycho, beyond redemption, or someone that no healthy person should be around. 

Having said that, this doesn't sound like a healthy relationship. You have indicated that this isn't a one time thing, and if this was something that you had previously said would lead to you initiating a break-up then I would probably follow through. Just because she can be saved through counseling or other measures doesn't mean that you have to stay in the relationship or help her through her issues.

It is possible, which is why I said that you should see a counselor not rely on someone online.  But no, once someone has lashed out at another person, I do think the person who has attacked should be removed.  They can get help, but the stats are that those who will abuse start small and I don't think the risk is worth it.  I understand you sitting there going but that is not me, because I have a very bad temper.  I had to learn to control it because yes, those of us who would lash out in response to a temper are at risk of being abusers.  And I would say someone who cuts is likely to self-harm again. 

[RapmasterD]

I would run and not walk away -- however you can. At some point down the road, you will look at this story and realize the sheer insanity of it. There are places you can call for more hands on assistance regarding the best actions to take.

After you're on the other side of this relationship, I strongly suggest you get yourself some therapy. Why? My spiritual belief is that equals attract -- not opposites. No no NO, I'm NOT at all suggesting you're physically abusive or LIKE this other person. I AM suggesting there may be something going on within you that attracted this other person to you.

Therefore, get to know yourself and your thoughts better. Seek help in doing that. It will help get you closer to the positive life partner you're meant to be with.

[thecornercat]

That shouldn't happen in relationships/this is not the normative. I am a female, in case that matters for your perspective, but behaving in this way towards my partner would seem cruel and wrong to me. Also, I have had people physically block my way before. I felt extremely threatened when that happened. And forcing someone to sleep with you... that sounds like a situation of emotional hostage (not to mention physical).

[partgypsy]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  Its difficult for a guy in his forties to admit this is happening, he feels really dumb.  What about throwing things, is that common/acceptable for women to do in relationships?

I guess I'm the only one on here, but I've thrown things before in frustration, just not in the context of a romantic relationship. I threw my cell phone down on the ground once in a fit of postpartum frustration after my baby had been crying for hours. I've probably thrown other things before. I'm not proud of it, but I am not an abuser. I would be interested in someone weighing in who has training in abuse. Can someone be a thrower without being an abuser? If not, I am rather worried about what rests beneath my psychological surface.

I would take a much harder line about the physical violence rather than the throwing, although throwing something across the room could inadvertently cause physical violence. Say you marry this woman and you and she are in a fight. Perhaps she throws something and a kid walks in the room and gets hit.

Do you think counseling could solve her anger issues?

Ditto. In your situation, those are bad signs, the physical stuff, the not letting you have space or move?. But I have lost my temper, and yelled and even thrown things down out of frustration. I don't think I would ever hit someone or throw something at someone, but maybe I'm worse off than I thought?  If I was in a position I didn't feel safe, or didn't feel I can trust the behavior of someone then that is where I would get out. The fact that she won't "let" you break up, is actually not a good sign.

[Kansas Beachbum]

A lot of people have posted a lot more eloquent responses, but...seriously?  After the series of incidents you just described you/he even have to ask the question?  As someone just before me said, run, don't walk, as fast and as far as you can.  Sorry he's in that situation, it's beyond tough, but time to get out before it gets any worse. 

[Bob W]

Whether you stay in this relationship will come down to if you perceive the benefits outweigh the problems.   I have friends in similar situations that chose to remain and just deal with it.   (see below for a recommendation on dealing from your end)

The problem for most of them is the unknown after the spilt.  Dating and finding a suitable future mate.  It could end up miraculously great, but the reality is that there just aren't that many 40ish single women out there who are great people, nice looking,  in good health,  with good incomes and spending histories that are also not on the psycho spectrum.  If you want an independent one, finding one that would also want you might be very rare indeed.  Most of the 40ish women will also come with baggage of kids and divorces.  One has to ask if a woman is 40ish,  has no kids, never been married and has all these great attributes, why that just doesn't add up?

Probably only 7% of the female population falls into your desired age category.  Of that maybe 80% are in relationships.  So you are down to around one in 100-200 being available.  Of those maybe 10% meet the above criteria.  So  you're looking at maybe 1 in a thousand.  Add that she also has to be into you and the odds get very close to zero.  (sorry to be such a downer here)   

Regarding the physical abuse --- I don't see that as a big a deal as the psychological abuse.  Being whopped by a woman or locked in the basement is not that bad in the scope of things. 

Did you really just argue that an abusive relationship is better than no relationship at all? Really?

Did you also just argue that being locked in a basement is no big deal?

I feel like I'm in some other dimension reading this post.

hm... yeah, I'm a bit confused as well, and wondering who he has in his basement locked up?... nah, jk but still confused how this is not a big deal

OP on the money side, can't he just get a roommate if he wants to split living costs with someone?

Yes, I suppose I did argue that.  I don't strive to be politically correct when asked for an honest opinion.

 I suppose my advice comes from working in the psych field so long.  On the family services side of things it is often the role of the state to keep families together when abuse has occurred,  or at least reunite them.   This came about because the outcomes are so poor with the foster family system that even an abusive history at home made for better outcomes than foster placement in general.]

So yeah,  I do think the OP should have his friend try the Harley method as outlined in "His Needs, Her Needs"     

The problem with the "Run Forest Run!" theory is that it doesn't generally work to well in reality.  People in abusive relationships will generally end up in new abusive relationships if they leave.     

So I'll stick to my guns.  From what was suggested by the OP this isn't a situation that can't be changed.  But the OP will need to be the one to implement a change strategy.   

By the way,  I've  seen many people who have exhibited some of the negative behaviors noted by the OP that end up becoming very good parents and model spouses.   


As at out of the box aside --- The largest an most frequent input into humans is the food they eat.   Followed closely by TV.   Believe me when I tell you that a diet high in junk food and wheat will have a different behavioral outcome than people eating lots of veggies, healthy meats/fish and healthy oils.   Even weird things like red dye can result in behavior issues.   

There is also the caffeine and booze effects.   You didn't mention if booze was a factor as it often is in these situations.  But many people do not realize that caffeine, birth control pills,  and antidepressants can have a significant impact on peoples behaviors without anyone realizing this.

Does the GF drink more than one cup coffee per day?  Does she take birth control?  Is she on other medications?   Is your diet generally a wheat based or veggie based diet?  What TV shows are you watching?  Crime shows tend to legitimize violent behavior while Antiques Roadshow just makes a person nerdier.

I'm not joking about these inputs.  What are her inputs?   It would be difficult to achieve a different outcome without changing the inputs.   Something as simple as getting off birth control may have a huge effect on her personality.   

If there is drinking involved, it should be cut drastically or all together.