Been thinking about looking for a new job...

[Bearblastbeats]

Hi folks

I've been at my current job for about 3.5 years. My professional title is 'Project Engineer', and the company I work for is in the material handling industry. As a project engineer/project manager, I do the usual project management tasks you would see at any industrial/construction/engineering firm, i.e:

•   Oversee and coordinate subcontractors through all phases of construction
•   Provide design input and expertise from concept to execution
•   Retrieve and organize all quotes for materials and labor for projects and assembling proposals
•   Monitor supply deliveries and inventory
•   Provide quality construction oversight throughout the trades
•   Design full conceptual warehouse solutions for material handling utilizing AutoCAD and other design software
o   (i.e. conveyor systems, pallet racking, robotics)


Now, the reason I have been feeling this way is mainly due to the culture of this particular job. My director is a egotistical bully that no one likes but somehow hasn't been fired in the last 20 years. The salesmen I deal with are pretty useless to the point that I do 99.99% of their job (obtain quotes, schedule contractors, draft proposals) but they get the 30% gp on the job.

This year our department didn't get any raises, we did get an ok bonus (which was my second ever from here) but even that is rare.

My fear of leaving is due to my lack of formal education. I only have an associates degree in architecture but have been working in engineering/architectural firms since 2010. I am 31 years old and make a good $60k salary. I am located about an hour north of Boston, and I see other project management jobs and other project engineer jobs bays $10-$20k more than I do now.

Is my situation that bad or should I see it through for another few years? Or am I being just another underwhelmed Millennial?

[2Cent]

Go and apply. Only then you will find out what you're worth.

[Freedomin5]

It’s one thing to apply. It’s another thing to actually leave your job. So definitely apply and see if you get anything. Then decide whether you want to leave once you have a job offer in hand. I kind of feel like you’re trying to cross the bridge before you get to it.

[Lady SA]

Some advice that was given to me: apply and interview outside your company once per year. This gives you practice interviewing with less pressure (because you already have a job). And if you get a job offer out of it, you can decide if leaving is worth it then.

What's the worst that could happen if you do interview? The new place says no? Then you are simply back to your current situation and nothing really changes. If you don't try/ask/explore, the answer is always no. So why not try for the non-zero chance that you could find something better, when there is almost no downside?

[Bearblastbeats]

I've have thought of apply to some jobs, but I feel that breaks the sense of loyalty. I have never quit a job, though I have been laid off and have contracts not renewed.

[Freedomin5]

Your company is not loyal to you. It’s just business. Let’s just say they were looking for someone to fill a higher-up position, and you applied internally for it, but they also got a more qualified external applicant. You can bet they would hire the external applicant over you, he thought of loyalty not even once crossing their mind.

At the end of the day, I’m assuming you want to FIRE as quickly as possible, and that means maximizing your income, especially during your peak earning years. To do that, it’s recommended that you job hop every two years.

[Sibley]

This misplaced sense of loyalty.... Bear, dump it. Companies are not loyal to people. They are loyal to the bottom line. Some of them are better than others, but push comes to shove they will fire or lay you off.

It doesn't hurt to interview. It doesn't hurt to update your resume. You could even consider going back to school.

I refer to you AskAManager.org for all things job advice.

[2Cent]

This misplaced sense of loyalty.... Bear, dump it. Companies are not loyal to people. They are loyal to the bottom line. Some of them are better than others, but push comes to shove they will fire or lay you off.

It doesn't hurt to interview. It doesn't hurt to update your resume. You could even consider going back to school.

I refer to you AskAManager.org for all things job advice.

I would put it differently. Be good to your company, but not at a significant cost to yourself. So when you leave make it a smooth transition. But do leave if you can get a better job.

[mm1970]

There's never any harm in applying and interviewing.  It's how you know what you are worth.

In my experience, with 2-5 years of experience, it's the best time to leave, get a big bump, and learn new things.

Every engineer that I've ever worked with, who wanted to earn more - that's what I recommended to them. 

[Bearblastbeats]

Another caveat to this was the hiring of a new jr. engineer. Not to sound jealous but after being here for the time I have on top of the 8 total years in the field, they hired a new engineer who is 7 years my jr and makes $15k more than me.

I do understand that he does have a BS and is more of a robotics programmer, but why can't the project managers get a little more incentive also?

[Freedomin5]

Well then, instead of feeling all resentful, do something about it. You just proved everyone's point that the company is not loyal to you.

Go look for a better job. Start taking night courses to get your BS. There are so many things you can do to improve your own situation instead of just feeling "stuck" and then using the excuse of being loyal to your company as a reason to not take any action.

Everyone who has posted in this thread has already told you to go and apply elsewhere, to at least see what's out there. Stop complaining. Start taking your situation into your own hands and working towards improving it, whether it is getting a better paid position or becoming more well-educated to make yourself more competitive.

[Bearblastbeats]

Well then, instead of feeling all resentful, do something about it. You just proved everyone's point that the company is not loyal to you.

Go look for a better job. Start taking night courses to get your BS. There are so many things you can do to improve your own situation instead of just feeling "stuck" and then using the excuse of being loyal to your company as a reason to not take any action.

Everyone who has posted in this thread has already told you to go and apply elsewhere, to at least see what's out there. Stop complaining. Start taking your situation into your own hands and working towards improving it, whether it is getting a better paid position or becoming more well-educated to make yourself more competitive.

I looked at my market value for my job and its current pay rate on glassdoor. I am underpaid by ~$11k based on today's job market, ranging from $71K - $100k. I submitted quite a few resumes and cover letters this morning to see if anything sticks.

Thank you.

[mm1970]

Another caveat to this was the hiring of a new jr. engineer. Not to sound jealous but after being here for the time I have on top of the 8 total years in the field, they hired a new engineer who is 7 years my jr and makes $15k more than me.

I do understand that he does have a BS and is more of a robotics programmer, but why can't the project managers get a little more incentive also?

It's not you, it's the way it works.

In order to hire people, you have to pay market rate.  If the job market sux, you have your pick.  In 2009-2010, we hired some awesome fresh out of college engineers at $16 an hour to work as technicians.  We promoted them 2 years later to engineers.  When we expanded, we hired more fresh out of college engineers, at market rate, making only slightly less than the guys who were now 3 years senior.

For people who are "already here", well, maybe you'll get a few % every couple of years, but if you aren't leaving, why bother?  Oh wait, you are leaving, here have a 15% bump!  That puts you above your boss! 

It's the same in the senior ranks too.  I spent a couple of years hiring senior engineers to work with me or for me and every single one out earned me by $12-30k, and a couple of them were so bad I had to train them and do some of their work.

[Freedomin5]

Well then, instead of feeling all resentful, do something about it. You just proved everyone's point that the company is not loyal to you.

Go look for a better job. Start taking night courses to get your BS. There are so many things you can do to improve your own situation instead of just feeling "stuck" and then using the excuse of being loyal to your company as a reason to not take any action.

Everyone who has posted in this thread has already told you to go and apply elsewhere, to at least see what's out there. Stop complaining. Start taking your situation into your own hands and working towards improving it, whether it is getting a better paid position or becoming more well-educated to make yourself more competitive.

I looked at my market value for my job and its current pay rate on glassdoor. I am underpaid by ~$11k based on today's job market, ranging from $71K - $100k. I submitted quite a few resumes and cover letters this morning to see if anything sticks.

Thank you.

Good for you. Good luck!

[Bearblastbeats]

Since I initiated this thread, I have now applied to a few potential positions around my area. I was also sought out by a recruiter for a company in NC. We are in the middle of the interviewing process, I have had one phone interview a few weeks back and will have another one this week.

The company is in the same industry as I am currently employed but they will compensate me far more generously because of the size of the company.

I am looking to get around $85k - $90k, which is significantly more than I make now, and the COL is about 20% less than where I am in NH. it would essentially feel like they would be doubling my current salary.

Considering that most of my family is deceased, aside from my brother, I have nothing holding me down. My gf and I have been talking about the move and if they were to give me an offer, should I accept, she would go with me. However, she would greatly miss all of her family which she has a great bond with.

Personally, I'm  little terrified moving that far from home as I've been in NH for my entire life. Her on the other hand has lived from NY, to CA, to VT, and now NH.

[2Cent]

Since I initiated this thread, I have now applied to a few potential positions around my area. I was also sought out by a recruiter for a company in NC. We are in the middle of the interviewing process, I have had one phone interview a few weeks back and will have another one this week.

The company is in the same industry as I am currently employed but they will compensate me far more generously because of the size of the company.

I am looking to get around $85k - $90k, which is significantly more than I make now, and the COL is about 20% less than where I am in NH. it would essentially feel like they would be doubling my current salary.

Considering that most of my family is deceased, aside from my brother, I have nothing holding me down. My gf and I have been talking about the move and if they were to give me an offer, should I accept, she would go with me. However, she would greatly miss all of her family which she has a great bond with.

Personally, I'm  little terrified moving that far from home as I've been in NH for my entire life. Her on the other hand has lived from NY, to CA, to VT, and now NH.

As you don't have kids (yet) it's not such a big deal. Make sure your GF finds an occupation and some nice friends. You can go home to the inlaws regularly with that large increase in income and still come out ahead. Maybe down the line if you start a family you can move back. You will be in a much better position to negotiate because you already had such a salary and worked in a big firm. And also moving away from your home town is a great learning experience. It will enlarge your world vision.

[Bearblastbeats]

@2Cent - Thank you. I would much rather go and try and say that I did it, than to stay put and regret the 'what-if'.

@Linda_Norway - I've felt the same essentially. 1 year on the job = 2 years in college. There is also no 'formal' education in my industry. Obtaining an ME degree may help a little but I've enjoyed my journey without one.

[pecunia]

Another four cents worth - but for free:

My dad told me when I was going to college that what i was getting was a "ticket" to a job.  I would still suggest going to school and getting some more qualifications.  Once you have them, they cannot be taken away.  You are still young enough where the quals will benefit you.

I once applied for a job and asked a human resource person about pay.  This person and several other human resource people agreed that companies try to pay just enough to keep you.  That's it.  If someone appears happy to be working for lower pay, there is little to no incentive to them to increase it.  This keeps pay low and greater profits are passed to those above.

Sometimes the people in charge are not technically inclined.  They have their hands on the purse strings and their job is to watch cash flow.  They may not have any idea of what you do, how difficult it is to do it and even how important it may be to their company.  Now some of them may be a step beyond this.  They don't even care about you, your job, the difficulty in performing it, etc.  You are a component on a sheet of paper that makes money for them.  Employee XB309.

Sometimes, you can feel their disregard for you as a human being.  Ever notice the phrase "reach out" has come into common parlance?  Why is it necessary for them to "reach out" just to talk to you?  Doesn't this suggest that there is some sort of artificial distance between you?

Work hard to get FI.  Then when they "reach out" to you with some corporate BS, you can shake the hand that has reached out and bid them a good bye.

[Bearblastbeats]

Another four cents worth - but for free:

My dad told me when I was going to college that what i was getting was a "ticket" to a job.  I would still suggest going to school and getting some more qualifications.  Once you have them, they cannot be taken away.  You are still young enough where the quals will benefit you.

I once applied for a job and asked a human resource person about pay.  This person and several other human resource people agreed that companies try to pay just enough to keep you.  That's it.  If someone appears happy to be working for lower pay, there is little to no incentive to them to increase it.  This keeps pay low and greater profits are passed to those above.

Sometimes the people in charge are not technically inclined.  They have their hands on the purse strings and their job is to watch cash flow.  They may not have any idea of what you do, how difficult it is to do it and even how important it may be to their company.  Now some of them may be a step beyond this.  They don't even care about you, your job, the difficulty in performing it, etc.  You are a component on a sheet of paper that makes money for them.  Employee XB309.

Sometimes, you can feel their disregard for you as a human being.  Ever notice the phrase "reach out" has come into common parlance?  Why is it necessary for them to "reach out" just to talk to you?  Doesn't this suggest that there is some sort of artificial distance between you?

Work hard to get FI.  Then when they "reach out" to you with some corporate BS, you can shake the hand that has reached out and bid them a good bye.

I definitely feel that. We just had another engineer leave. his last day is tomorrow. I got him a job here 2 years ago and he couldn't handle the work load/stress of the job.

I've been doing a lot of thinking in regard to this job, or even another job with more money if I do get it, and what I've thought about is once I pay off my student loans and car loan this year I will be 100% debt free. I would almost consider getting a good enough job to cover my bills and spend more time with my dog and gf and focus more on music. I know it won't get me to ER but I won't have the drudgery of driving to work or a job site and the stress of it all.

Heck, I could even go back to installing with my brother on an as needed bases. I long for the days when I would go to a job, do that one job, finish in x time and get paid for it. No going back, making revisions, chasing POs, flying across the country.

I have enough PTO/holiday time to take every Friday off for the rest of the year. Maybe that will brighten my mood.

[ysette9]

Good luck! I hope a better job pans out for you.

I’d also encourage you to go back to school (part-time while working? It is tough. But I did it and am glad I did.) to get your bachelor’s. I suspect that getting that degree with make it easier for you to open doors in the future, and give you more confidence in your marketability. You need that confidence to know you are undervalued and overworked and then to go do something about it.

[Bearblastbeats]

Good luck! I hope a better job pans out for you.

I’d also encourage you to go back to school (part-time while working? It is tough. But I did it and am glad I did.) to get your bachelor’s. I suspect that getting that degree with make it easier for you to open doors in the future, and give you more confidence in your marketability. You need that confidence to know you are undervalued and overworked and then to go do something about it.

If I were to go back to college, I am not entirely sure I would consider engineering any longer. I have an interest in Project Management. i did contact a local university who offers night and online classes. Just not sure if I care to continue.

I guess this depends on if I get an offer to the job in NC. With that sort of increase I wouldn't need to consider any further education aside from the training the comany provides.

[BlueHouse]

Good luck Bear!  It's so encouraging to hear that you interviewed and are on the short list for some terrific opportunities. 

[pecunia]

The Bear:

If I were to go back to college, I am not entirely sure I would consider engineering any longer. I have an interest in Project Management. i did contact a local university who offers night and online classes. Just not sure if I care to continue.

Look around and see who is successful.  It is the people, who have their hands close to the purse strings.

These people buy and sell engineers.  You already know this.  They decide what projects are going to be done and are never hurt if they are cancelled.  I'm not sure what path can lead to being one of these people, but they must come from somewhere.

Right now engineering is good, but engineers are considered a like another commodity by the movers and shakers.  They hire and fire as their perceived financial needs dictate.

[ysette9]

The Bear:

If I were to go back to college, I am not entirely sure I would consider engineering any longer. I have an interest in Project Management. i did contact a local university who offers night and online classes. Just not sure if I care to continue.

Look around and see who is successful.  It is the people, who have their hands close to the purse strings.

These people buy and sell engineers.  You already know this.  They decide what projects are going to be done and are never hurt if they are cancelled.  I'm not sure what path can lead to being one of these people, but they must come from somewhere.

Right now engineering is good, but engineers are considered a like another commodity by the movers and shakers.  They hire and fire as their perceived financial needs dictate.

Maybe it is just because I am in a peculiar environment here in Silicon Valley, but my impression is that engineers rule the world. :). Certainly it has been a lucrative career path for us. Either way you go, I think the advice of looking around to see who is successful, as well as doing research like what are the best paying majors is a good idea.

[JLee]

If it helps you any, I was 3 years in IT (with a 2yr degree in "general studies") making $61k in AZ.  I went to NJ for a job (granted, much higher COL) at $97k + bonus. I'm 2.5 years in and will clear about $117k this year.

Don't hold yourself back!