Been a long time reader of the blog. Help me sort some decisions out.

[RyanGreener]

EDIT: Wife has discussed things and is willing to minimize my commute while spending a little more time on public transportation. Her train commute is about 20 minutes. 0 transfers, she just gets on the train and it goes to where she needs. I guess if you add the walking it becomes closer to 40 minutes. With relocation as discussed in the original post, her walk would be shorter to the train station, but she'd have to do 1 transfer and a total time of about 1 hour. Cost of living would be slightly increased at 1500/mo. I guess for the car thing, one of them will eventually be sold. Thanks for all the feedback/opinions guys. I know I'm not your typical forum poster and I know a lot of this sounds ridiculous, but I'd rather not tell my entire life story here and bore you all to death.

[RyanAtTanagra]

The first and most obvious suggestion is to get a new job near her job and move closer or both of you take public transit.  And before you go 'but I can't' and come up with 6 reasons to justify why your current employer is the only place you'll ever be able to work for the rest of your life, just start looking anyway.

[Blue Skies]

Why does she need a car if she commutes by train? 
Why does she need a car when you already have two other cars?

I agree with the other Ryan - you should find a job closer to hers.  That would be ideal.

[RyanGreener]

1) She insists on having the convenience of the car. No other way around this.
2) Those two cars are passion related and also, she can't drive them.

My job is very particular and it would be pretty tough for me to make the same amount of money anywhere else within distance of her job. I've looked, trust me. :)

Edited the first post for clarification (we live in the NY/NJ area). It's hard to find a low cost of living place that has a decent commute to both of our jobs.

[slappy]

If she is not willing to have a longer commute and you are not willing to change jobs, there doesn't appear to be another solution. "There's no other way around it" is not a mustachian statement.

Also, a 40 minute-1 hour commute is fairly typical. While not ideal, it shouldn't be causing such extreme exhaustion on your part. However if it is, I would hope she could take that into consideration. Could you change your work schedule at all? Work 4 longer days or work from home at all? Maybe you could find someone to car pool with?

I know you admitted the face punch worthiness already, but buying a 2018 vehicle because she insists on the convenience factor makes no sense at all. If she insists she needs a car, surely there is something more affordable available.

Is your question about saving money in general or is it specifically how to resolve this commute situation? If you are happy and have a decent savings rate, then let it be. If the commute causes you issues, then you two need to work together to come up with a solution. I think it's reasonable to ask her to take a slightly longer commute on public transportation if that's her thing, but she may feel differently. Perhaps she needs a stronger reason to compel her. If your main concern is the exhaustion from the commute, have you communicated that clearly to her? Maybe if she fully  understands the reasoning, she would be more willing to change things.

[RyanGreener]

If she is not willing to have a longer commute and you are not willing to change jobs, there doesn't appear to be another solution. "There's no other way around it" is not a mustachian statement.

Also, a 40 minute-1 hour commute is fairly typical. While not ideal, it shouldn't be causing such extreme exhaustion on your part. However if it is, I would hope she could take that into consideration. Could you change your work schedule at all? Work 4 longer days or work from home at all? Maybe you could find someone to car pool with?

I know you admitted the face punch worthiness already, but buying a 2018 vehicle because she insists on the convenience factor makes no sense at all. If she insists she needs a car, surely there is something more affordable available.

Is your question about saving money in general or is it specifically how to resolve this commute situation? If you are happy and have a decent savings rate, then let it be. If the commute causes you issues, then you two need to work together to come up with a solution. I think it's reasonable to ask her to take a slightly longer commute on public transportation if that's her thing, but she may feel differently. Perhaps she needs a stronger reason to compel her. If your main concern is the exhaustion from the commute, have you communicated that clearly to her? Maybe if she fully  understands the reasoning, she would be more willing to change things.

/my passion also takes a lot of time/dedication, so that's part of where that exhaustion comes from. Working schedule can't be changed for me. I'd say we both have a decent savings rate for what it is, but I was hoping to make this post because I have been discussing with this her frequently in order to help convince her that it is not only me that thinks some of this is unreasonable/"facepunchy". Also, I am sure that unlike the majority here, I am not aiming for early retirement but mostly at maximizing my income on things that I enjoy. Just about every part of my life is extremely frugal, although I know the car costs are a big chunk of burden.

[chemistk]

If you were to dump a car, I'd probably try and offload the Scion first, since this current topic is not about your savings rate or our current NW. I make the recommendation because if everything goes well, a periodic transmission fluid drain and fill isn't going to be a challenge, your APR is fantastic, and your Scion is getting to the point where major work is required (as I'm sure you know). Of course, if you live/work in a bad area, maybe it's better to keep the Scion.

Otherwise, forgive me for being blunt (or don't, if that's what you're searching for), but can't sounds more like won't.

If permission to request your wife to consider a longer commute and to take on higher living expenses, please run it by her. Nobody but you has a window into your relationship or each of your motivations so we can't really tell you yes or no. 

Ignore, since you clarified above that you have discussed this with your wife.

How aggressive are your FIRE goals? If you're looking to get out in the next 5 to 10, it sounds like (unless your wife agrees to a longer transit commute) you're going to be "stuck" in your current situation - especially if neither of your wants to abandon each respective career.

This was partially addressed in your post above. If FIRE isn't on the horizon, I'd really consider what you value more.

Anyways, opinions and ideas on how to optimize commute quality/cost and car stuff would be appreciated.

What exactly does your commute look like? How much of the 40 minutes is in stop and go traffic?

[RyanGreener]

If you were to dump a car, I'd probably try and offload the Scion first, since this current topic is not about your savings rate or our current NW. I make the recommendation because if everything goes well, a periodic transmission fluid drain and fill isn't going to be a challenge, your APR is fantastic, and your Scion is getting to the point where major work is required (as I'm sure you know). Of course, if you live/work in a bad area, maybe it's better to keep the Scion.

Otherwise, forgive me for being blunt (or don't, if that's what you're searching for), but can't sounds more like won't.

If permission to request your wife to consider a longer commute and to take on higher living expenses, please run it by her. Nobody but you has a window into your relationship or each of your motivations so we can't really tell you yes or no. 

Ignore, since you clarified above that you have discussed this with your wife.

How aggressive are your FIRE goals? If you're looking to get out in the next 5 to 10, it sounds like (unless your wife agrees to a longer transit commute) you're going to be "stuck" in your current situation - especially if neither of your wants to abandon each respective career.

This was partially addressed in your post above. If FIRE isn't on the horizon, I'd really consider what you value more.

Anyways, opinions and ideas on how to optimize commute quality/cost and car stuff would be appreciated.

What exactly does your commute look like? How much of the 40 minutes is in stop and go traffic?

The tC has been pretty reliable. I work on my cars myself and I've actually just did a brake flush, coolant flush, trans filter change/drain and refill, and valve cover gasket.

I'd say my commute is half half stop and go. I have no problem driving (and actually enjoy it, by the way), but over time it's just frustrating. Other areas of my life that are stressing me out could possibly be adding on to this effect, admittedly. Also, I think the fact that I've read this blog so many times and know that we could be saving a ton of money by her toughing it out on her longer commute (in which she can sometimes work from home) and minimize car expenses is the frustrating part.

For what it is worth, we have discussed it more and she seems to be almost warming up to the idea of us living closer to my work while she takes slightly longer public transportation.

[Eowyn_MI]

If you were to dump a car, I'd probably try and offload the Scion first, since this current topic is not about your savings rate or our current NW. I make the recommendation because if everything goes well, a periodic transmission fluid drain and fill isn't going to be a challenge, your APR is fantastic, and your Scion is getting to the point where major work is required (as I'm sure you know). Of course, if you live/work in a bad area, maybe it's better to keep the Scion.

Otherwise, forgive me for being blunt (or don't, if that's what you're searching for), but can't sounds more like won't.

If permission to request your wife to consider a longer commute and to take on higher living expenses, please run it by her. Nobody but you has a window into your relationship or each of your motivations so we can't really tell you yes or no. 

Ignore, since you clarified above that you have discussed this with your wife.

How aggressive are your FIRE goals? If you're looking to get out in the next 5 to 10, it sounds like (unless your wife agrees to a longer transit commute) you're going to be "stuck" in your current situation - especially if neither of your wants to abandon each respective career.

This was partially addressed in your post above. If FIRE isn't on the horizon, I'd really consider what you value more.

Anyways, opinions and ideas on how to optimize commute quality/cost and car stuff would be appreciated.

What exactly does your commute look like? How much of the 40 minutes is in stop and go traffic?

I'd say my commute is half half stop and go. I have no problem driving (and actually enjoy it, by the way), but over time it's just frustrating.

Do you have flexible work hours?  Is there less traffic if you go in earlier or later?  My commute is 25 min with no traffic so I start work at 6am.  Yes, its not always fun to wake up at 5am but wasting no time stuck in traffic makes the early mornings worth it. 

[slappy]

I don't know, I'm not a huge fan of some of the language you are using. Like someone else said, can't sounds like won't to me. And thinking that she can/should "tough it out" doesn't sit well with me. It kind of sounds like you think she should sacrifice so that you enjoy your passion more. I do kind of agree with you, I just don't like the language. Obviously relationships can involve compromise, and if there is something that doesn't have a huge impact on her but would have a large positive impact for you, then I would say she should go for it, but only she can make that decision. Also, I'm not sure its  fair for you to be frustrated that you could cut car expenses, when the car was your idea in the first place. (not the need for the car, but that specific car.)

I know you said you have looked for jobs. Have you taken a really good look at the lower salary compared to the lower expenses that you might have if you were able to work near her and take public transportation as well? I think you have to decide how much a burden the commute really is. How much are YOU willing to change to get out of the commute? It shouldn't necessarily be all on her.

Also, if your passion consumes so much time/energy, maybe you should shoot for early retirement so you can dedicate all your time to it. :)

[RyanGreener]

I don't know, I'm not a huge fan of some of the language you are using. Like someone else said, can't sounds like won't to me. And thinking that she can/should "tough it out" doesn't sit well with me. It kind of sounds like you think she should sacrifice so that you enjoy your passion more. I do kind of agree with you, I just don't like the language. Obviously relationships can involve compromise, and if there is something that doesn't have a huge impact on her but would have a large positive impact for you, then I would say she should go for it, but only she can make that decision. Also, I'm not sure its  fair for you to be frustrated that you could cut car expenses, when the car was your idea in the first place. (not the need for the car, but that specific car.)

I know you said you have looked for jobs. Have you taken a really good look at the lower salary compared to the lower expenses that you might have if you were able to work near her and take public transportation as well? I think you have to decide how much a burden the commute really is. How much are YOU willing to change to get out of the commute? It shouldn't necessarily be all on her.

Also, if your passion consumes so much time/energy, maybe you should shoot for early retirement so you can dedicate all your time to it. :)

You are correct. Can't in some of these cases does mean "won't". Also, for some background, long before I read the blog, I endured 1-2 hour commutes every day for years so I guess some of me feels tired of commuting for so long when it doesn't have to be so. And definitely yes, I regret the car thing, that is fully my fault. Thanks for giving me perspective, I really appreciate it (not being sarcastic btw)

I have compared the job versus lower expense deal, and it really does not compute to anything favorable. Also, she works in NYC so the chances of me finding a job in my field there are almost zero as far as I know, but also, my job has me pidgeonholed into a very specific type of work.

I'd love to pursue it later in life, but unfortunately, time is not on my side on that one!

[Miss Piggy]

Dear Abby,

I feel like my husband is being really selfish right now. We live between our two jobs in a HCOL large metro area, but we've managed to find low-cost housing, so it's a decent compromise. Now he wants to move closer to his work so he can spend more time on his "passion." That would mean I have to spend more time on public transportation every work day so he can play with his extra cars. Seriously? What should I do?

- Selfish car guy's wife


Sorry, but that's how this all reads to me.

[rockeTree]

So your commute is 40 minutes to an hour and you're beat. How long is her transit commute now? How long would it be with the relocation being considered? How many transfers? Yes, a minute sitting on a train is less stressful than a minute in 8 lanes of going nowhere - but if your ask is for her to end up with a 75 minute commute with two transfers that's different than if it's going from 20 minutes to 30 on the same line/route.

[RyanGreener]

So your commute is 40 minutes to an hour and you're beat. How long is her transit commute now? How long would it be with the relocation being considered? How many transfers? Yes, a minute sitting on a train is less stressful than a minute in 8 lanes of going nowhere - but if your ask is for her to end up with a 75 minute commute with two transfers that's different than if it's going from 20 minutes to 30 on the same line/route.

Yeah, 40 mins (50/50 highway/traffic) is beating me up these days because I'm pretty stressed cause I'm doing a million things.

Her train commute is about 20 minutes. 0 transfers, she just gets on the train and it goes to where she needs. I guess if you add the walking it becomes closer to 40 minutes. With relocation as discussed in the original post, her walk would be shorter to the train station, but she'd have to do 1 transfer and a total time of about 1 hour. Cost of living would be slightly increased at 1500/mo

[slappy]

Dear Abby,

I feel like my husband is being really selfish right now. We live between our two jobs in a HCOL large metro area, but we've managed to find low-cost housing, so it's a decent compromise. Now he wants to move closer to his work so he can spend more time on his "passion." That would mean I have to spend more time on public transportation every work day so he can play with his extra cars. Seriously? What should I do?

- Selfish car guy's wife


Sorry, but that's how this all reads to me.

hahahaha thats funny

OP, glad to see the update that you guys worked things out. I would personally balk at the increased COL, but I think it makes sense when you consider the exhaustion you are experiencing. If you guys were open to a roommate situation or airbnb type thing, you could probably lower that a bit. That may be a bit much for the wife to take in at the moment. ;) I just hope that in a couple of years you don't feel frustrated knowing that you could lower your rent costs by moving. Until then, enjoy the shorter commute! (I hate driving, so I'm very thankful I can work from home 50% of the time.)

[Kris]

So your commute is 40 minutes to an hour and you're beat. How long is her transit commute now? How long would it be with the relocation being considered? How many transfers? Yes, a minute sitting on a train is less stressful than a minute in 8 lanes of going nowhere - but if your ask is for her to end up with a 75 minute commute with two transfers that's different than if it's going from 20 minutes to 30 on the same line/route.

Yeah, 40 mins (50/50 highway/traffic) is beating me up these days because I'm pretty stressed cause I'm doing a million things.

Her train commute is about 20 minutes. 0 transfers, she just gets on the train and it goes to where she needs. I guess if you add the walking it becomes closer to 40 minutes. With relocation as discussed in the original post, her walk would be shorter to the train station, but she'd have to do 1 transfer and a total time of about 1 hour. Cost of living would be slightly increased at 1500/mo

So her commute is 40 minutes, also.

[RyanGreener]

Dear Abby,

I feel like my husband is being really selfish right now. We live between our two jobs in a HCOL large metro area, but we've managed to find low-cost housing, so it's a decent compromise. Now he wants to move closer to his work so he can spend more time on his "passion." That would mean I have to spend more time on public transportation every work day so he can play with his extra cars. Seriously? What should I do?

- Selfish car guy's wife


Sorry, but that's how this all reads to me.

hahahaha thats funny

OP, glad to see the update that you guys worked things out. I would personally balk at the increased COL, but I think it makes sense when you consider the exhaustion you are experiencing. If you guys were open to a roommate situation or airbnb type thing, you could probably lower that a bit. That may be a bit much for the wife to take in at the moment. ;) I just hope that in a couple of years you don't feel frustrated knowing that you could lower your rent costs by moving. Until then, enjoy the shorter commute! (I hate driving, so I'm very thankful I can work from home 50% of the time.)

Right now, we basically live in a small basement of someone's house and it's pretty tight already. The place we'll end up moving to in a few months will be just as tight and also, as a married couple, we'd rather not deal with roommates anymore.

[GreenToTheCore]

Dang, less than 24 hours and you already have a resolution on the commute.
I'd do something extra special for your wife in the near future, seems like she just went from an equal commute duration to a longer one with more hassle so that you can enjoy your hobby more.


Something to think about:

...Other areas of my life that are stressing me out could possibly be adding on to this effect, admittedly.

... I'm pretty stressed cause I'm doing a million things.

Sometimes writing stuff down reveals things that we hadn't had time to recognize.
Good luck with the move and hopefully it results in increased happiness.

[RyanGreener]

Dang, less than 24 hours and you already have a resolution on the commute.
I'd do something extra special for your wife in the near future, seems like she just went from an equal commute duration to a longer one with more hassle so that you can enjoy your hobby more.


Something to think about:

...Other areas of my life that are stressing me out could possibly be adding on to this effect, admittedly.

... I'm pretty stressed cause I'm doing a million things.

Sometimes writing stuff down reveals things that we hadn't had time to recognize.
Good luck with the move and hopefully it results in increased happiness.

Actually, the posts in this thread and realizing my own weakness have also made me think about not even moving and just staying where I am right now. I think I made this thread in a wrong state of mind, so I'm thankful to all of you for knocking some sense into me. It's just seems dumb to make her commute worse and make both of our costs of living higher just for my own convenience.

[RyanAtTanagra]

Actually, the posts in this thread and realizing my own weakness have also made me think about not even moving and just staying where I am right now. I think I made this thread in a wrong state of mind, so I'm thankful to all of you for knocking some sense into me. It's just seems dumb to make her commute worse and make both of our costs of living higher just for my own convenience.

Agreed, and bravo for being willing to switch thought processes.  If you're feeling overwhelmed on having too many things going on, might be time to start viciously culling commitments/projects/hobbies.  Also check out Getting Things Done, it's good for getting shit out of your head.  It might not reduce the things you want/have to do, but it will make it less stressful and remove a weight from your shoulders.

[RyanGreener]

Actually, the posts in this thread and realizing my own weakness have also made me think about not even moving and just staying where I am right now. I think I made this thread in a wrong state of mind, so I'm thankful to all of you for knocking some sense into me. It's just seems dumb to make her commute worse and make both of our costs of living higher just for my own convenience.

Agreed, and bravo for being willing to switch thought processes.  If you're feeling overwhelmed on having too many things going on, might be time to start viciously culling commitments/projects/hobbies.  Also check out Getting Things Done, it's good for getting shit out of your head.  It might not reduce the things you want/have to do, but it will make it less stressful and remove a weight from your shoulders.

I literally have no commitments/projects/hobbies. I work, sleep, and focus on my passion. I label what I do as a passion because it's not as simple as "playing with cars" as everyone seems to think it is. But yeah, I'll just find some way to de-stress a bit and recharge.

[Blue Skies]

I literally have no commitments/projects/hobbies. I work, sleep, and focus on my passion. I label what I do as a passion because it's not as simple as "playing with cars" as everyone seems to think it is. But yeah, I'll just find some way to de-stress a bit and recharge.

I have to disagree with you here.  You work, sleep, and do your hobby.  Is your "passion" something you are being paid to do?  If not, it is a hobby.  And if you are literally so busy with this hobby that you are frustrated with the rest of your life getting in the way, then I would suggest that either you need to scale back on it to give yourself more breathing room, or push hard for FIRE and do it without your paid work getting in the way.

[RyanGreener]

I literally have no commitments/projects/hobbies. I work, sleep, and focus on my passion. I label what I do as a passion because it's not as simple as "playing with cars" as everyone seems to think it is. But yeah, I'll just find some way to de-stress a bit and recharge.

I have to disagree with you here.  You work, sleep, and do your hobby.  Is your "passion" something you are being paid to do?  If not, it is a hobby.  And if you are literally so busy with this hobby that you are frustrated with the rest of your life getting in the way, then I would suggest that either you need to scale back on it to give yourself more breathing room, or push hard for FIRE and do it without your paid work getting in the way.

We can agree to disagree. I didn't know passions required getting paid, but yes, I get paid to do it sometimes. Thanks for the advice though!