Author Topic: I think I want to be a stay at home dad  (Read 8918 times)

poetdereves

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I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« on: April 19, 2024, 02:56:14 PM »
DW and I have considered me being a SAHD starting in 2025. Current income and expenses:

CURRENT INCOME:
DW: $159k
DH: $85k
Rentals: $9k
Total: $~250k

CURRENT EXPENSES (past 12 months averaged):
$129k

2025 INCOME:
DW: $159k
Rentals: $9k
Total: ~$170k

2025 EXPENSES:
$86k

I can break this down more into a case study if people want to see, but I am not necessarily looking to have the budget combed through for places to decrease expenses. I am open to it, but it isn’t necessary to keep the option to stay home available.

The biggest changes financially will be losing my income (~$80k), but we would stop paying our in-home nanny ($400/wk) and a few other things that we hire out that I would do myself. We’d also lose the ability to contribute to my 401k at work, which I currently max out. We will still have enough income to continue saving quite a bit, so I am wondering what other options are out there for tax advantaged investing.

I currently have DS (2 years old) a couple days a week while my wife works (from home). We are having our DD in October. We have our nanny three days a week. I do have a lot of extracurriculars that I participate in and include my son in that I would like to keep doing for my own sanity.

Any other SAHDs out there that have some good-to-know info?
Any things that you wish you’d have known about being a SAHD or being married to one?
Anyone gone back to work after 3-5 years, or did it become permanent for you?
What kind of issues have you had socially as a SAHD?

Tass

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2024, 03:11:50 PM »
Have you considered how your taxes will change? You will likely be keeping much more of your wife's income if you quit working (assuming MFJ).

Looks like, before considering tax changes, you expect quitting to save you $43k. Would you do your current job for a salary of $42k? ($85k salary - $43k work-related expenses = $42k actual pay.)

I can't comment on the social aspects as I don't have kids yet, but my partner being a SAHD is one possibility for us too. Interested to follow.

Morning Glory

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2024, 03:42:59 PM »
My DH was able to secure a new job easily after ~ 7 years as a SAHP (I say approximately as he did work on a gradually decreasing part time basis 2015-2020, then stopped completely when covid hit). His new job actually pays almost twice as much as the old one but that is because he was being woefully underpaid hence why he quit to avoid daycare expenses. I FIRE'd in December 2021 and he started working in July of 22 to mitigate sequence risk and make it easier to get a mortgage.

Socially you should be OK if you already have friends outside of work and participate in some activities.  The cheapest way to get a break when the kids are little is to join a gym with on-site daycare,  then you can make friends with other parents if you go at a consistent time every day. Also make sure you are the one dealing with the school and doctor appointments and stuff because they will still want to treat your wife as the default parent which contributes to burnout. I don't know how you divide cooking and housework now but it's probably best to talk about changes ahead of time.

You can fund a spousal IRA if not working but I don't know the cutoff for the deduction so someone else here can help you with traditional vs Roth.  I did trad IRAs for self and husband + maxed 403b plus 457b for the year I qualified for it, but my income was much lower than your DW's.

ixtap

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2024, 04:46:31 PM »
I was going to ask why not start as soon as DW goes back to work, but an October birth and 2025 start for SAHP sounds about like that is the plan.

Socially, it depends on you social network. The key is to build a network that supports your goals, rather than bend your goals to your existing network. People who care about you will generally come around. I have never seen a guy with the trail mamas around here, but it is the kind of thing that would be worth looking into, for whatever interests you may have.


JJ-

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2024, 05:00:24 PM »
I did the SAHD bit as well as am primary caretaker for our kids (4&6.5).

It's pretty isolating unless you have other SAHDs to socialize with. I'd suggest trying to find them and hang out with them even if you don't click with them that well. I would take kids to birthday parties and books because it would be a bunch of moms and me. School skips the call order and calls mom first because surely Dad doesn't know.

That being said, I developed some really valuable friendships with other moms over playdates. One on one it was great. I got used to dynamics changing when more than one mom showed up.

It took me over 5 years to find a deep friendship with another SAHD who did the SAHD dad bit as well as with a difficult child.

You'll still want to keep the nanny on standby because you like SAHM's need a break.  Carve the time out. Dad+kid time, dad +kids+mom time, dad+mom time, and dad time are 4 relationships you'll need to prioritize. In our house, mom+kids+dad time greatly outweighed mom+kids time just due to the fact that mom worked full time and weekends were spent as a family.

Best of luck breaking social norms!
« Last Edit: April 19, 2024, 10:56:26 PM by JJ- »

GilesMM

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2024, 09:37:31 PM »
Have you considered mom staying home instead?  Might be a better care giver.

[MOD NOTE: What.]
« Last Edit: April 20, 2024, 12:05:43 PM by FrugalToque »

ixtap

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2024, 12:24:04 AM »
Have you considered mom staying home instead?  Might be a better care giver.

Based on?

Kris

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2024, 06:43:33 AM »
Have you considered mom staying home instead?  Might be a better care giver.

I literally require this to be satire.

FireLane

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2024, 07:07:39 AM »
I've been a stay-at-home dad since 2021, when I FIREd the year my son started kindergarten. Before that, my wife and I both worked from home part-time and shared childcare duties.

I'm glad that FIRE allowed me to do this. Spending time with your kids, especially when they're little, is a priceless gift. You'll never have a better opportunity to teach them things and to influence what kind of person they grow up into. If you want to do it, I say go for it!

My #1 tip: Libraries are your friend! They often have story time, craft hour or other activities for kids. It's also a good way to meet other parents, both to make friends for your kid and to get some adult interaction for your own social life.

I was prepared for weird looks or sexist comments (like "why are you staying home with him when he has a mom?"), but that hasn't happened. Of course, I live in New York City. Your experiences may vary if you live somewhere with different politics.

JJ-

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2024, 07:25:02 AM »
I've been a stay-at-home dad since 2021, when I FIREd the year my son started kindergarten. Before that, my wife and I both worked from home part-time and shared childcare duties.

I'm glad that FIRE allowed me to do this. Spending time with your kids, especially when they're little, is a priceless gift. You'll never have a better opportunity to teach them things and to influence what kind of person they grow up into. If you want to do it, I say go for it!

My #1 tip: Libraries are your friend! They often have story time, craft hour or other activities for kids. It's also a good way to meet other parents, both to make friends for your kid and to get some adult interaction for your own social life.

I was prepared for weird looks or sexist comments (like "why are you staying home with him when he has a mom?"), but that hasn't happened. Of course, I live in New York City. Your experiences may vary if you live somewhere with different politics.

Libraries are in fact amazing. Changing up the day and time of the week when you go exposes you to so many different families.

JJ-

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2024, 07:38:58 AM »
Have you considered mom staying home instead?  Might be a better care giver.

I literally require this to be satire.

I groaned.

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2024, 08:34:53 AM »
Have you considered mom staying home instead?  Might be a better care giver.

I literally require this to be satire.

Well, I found someone new to block, I suppose.

Also, what the actual f*ck?

Dicey

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2024, 09:18:48 AM »
Have you considered mom staying home instead?  Might be a better care giver.
So, you like playing with matches and lighter fluid?

That's a big, fat, sexist "might".

Surely you jest.

RetiredAt63

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2024, 10:30:31 AM »
I think wanting to be home with your children is a great idea.  Of course you are signing yourself up for 2 full-time jobs - looking after the children and keeping the house from being a disaster (because a toddler and a baby can turn a home into a disaster just by existing).

My only thoughts (concerns?) are about this paragraph:

I currently have DS (2 years old) a couple days a week while my wife works (from home). We are having our DD in October. We have our nanny three days a week. I do have a lot of extracurriculars that I participate in and include my son in that I would like to keep doing for my own sanity.

Baby in October - how much maternity leave will your wife get?  At least she works from home - is the plan that you look after baby and just bring baby to Mom for breast-feeding (for as long as the breast-feeding is happening) and look after baby the rest of the time?  Have you talked with parents of a toddle and a new-born to see how they handle the double child-care?

How will baby fit into your extracurriculars?  If you drop the part-time nanny then you will be responsible for baby as well as toddler, all day every day, no nanny for back-up.  I've looked after my toddler grand-daughter when daycare was closed and DD was working from home, it was as if DD was not there.  I was on my own.  The time to plan for that is now, not when you are finding it difficult to fit baby into your schedule.  And you can't leave baby with your wife, working and baby-tending are very incompatable.

I'm not trying to be negative, I'm just remembering the first 6 months of my DD's life, when having a bath had to be carefully scheduled around her.  Extracurricular activities were taking her with me when I walked the dog/did the grocery shopping.  My schedule was based on her schedule.  And we were breast-feeding, and breast-feeding babies are very portable.

GilesMM

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2024, 12:46:11 PM »
Have you considered mom staying home instead?  Might be a better care giver.
So, you like playing with matches and lighter fluid?

That's a big, fat, sexist "might".

Surely you jest.


Your interpretation seems sexist.  I'm just suggesting that since the OP appeared to be making a proposal for selecting a caregiver based on incomes, that the other spouse, despite higher income, might be the better caregiver.  I made no attribution to sex/gender as the reason for that.

Morning Glory

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2024, 12:51:26 PM »
Is there an emoji for pretending to cough while saying bullshit?

poetdereves

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2024, 12:56:15 PM »
@Morning Glory - Good tips about the spousal IRA and the on-site gym care. I will keep those in mind as we try to make our decision. I love a good success story.

@ixtap - Luckily for me, there are some decent social scenes that I already participate in that kids easily fit into. Jiu jitsu and mountain biking are both a big part of nearly everyday for me, but there's quite a few ways to rope kids in. Also, while they are both small I realize my schedule still has to bend around them, so we have talked about me going to the morning BJJ classes before she works or hitting the trails for an hour after she gets off and watches the kids a day or two a week.

@JJ- - I feel you on the SAHD rarity part. In all the days I have been out with my son in two years I have only met one SAHD. I really appreciated the four different relationships to prioritize and I really think that's going to stick in my mind for a while.

I'll respond to everyone else soon, but DS just woke up. Appreciate it!

JJ-

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2024, 02:23:15 PM »
Have you considered mom staying home instead?  Might be a better care giver.
So, you like playing with matches and lighter fluid?

That's a big, fat, sexist "might".

Surely you jest.


Your interpretation seems sexist.  I'm just suggesting that since the OP appeared to be making a proposal for selecting a caregiver based on incomes, that the other spouse, despite higher income, might be the better caregiver.  I made no attribution to sex/gender as the reason for that.

Let's assume positive intent on your part. Why do you think ignoring income makes suggesting the partner as a SAHP a better choice?

OP is already a part time SAHD and wants to do it full time. You've decided to ignore context and specific questions on advice to being a full time SAHD. How were you expecting your feedback to be received?

Just an FYI, income was not part of the discussion. The rest of the forum saw that, and so your suggestion that mom=better comes off incredibly judgmental, expecting women to give up a high paying job to stay at home with kids while simultaneously saying Dads=worse (this justifying a massive sacrifice by mom) to embrace traditional gender roles.

JJ-

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2024, 02:26:51 PM »
@Morning Glory - Good tips about the spousal IRA and the on-site gym care. I will keep those in mind as we try to make our decision. I love a good success story.

@ixtap - Luckily for me, there are some decent social scenes that I already participate in that kids easily fit into. Jiu jitsu and mountain biking are both a big part of nearly everyday for me, but there's quite a few ways to rope kids in. Also, while they are both small I realize my schedule still has to bend around them, so we have talked about me going to the morning BJJ classes before she works or hitting the trails for an hour after she gets off and watches the kids a day or two a week.

@JJ- - I feel you on the SAHD rarity part. In all the days I have been out with my son in two years I have only met one SAHD. I really appreciated the four different relationships to prioritize and I really think that's going to stick in my mind for a while.

I'll respond to everyone else soon, but DS just woke up. Appreciate it!

I sometimes jokes that other SAHDs are so rare that when I meet one sometimes, the crazy in the eyes is so intense when I meet them that there's almost a primordial need to connect and be best friends. Hey. Hey. Hey. A dad. Hey. We have kids. I'm a dad. Let's be friends. What are you doing today. Tomorrow? Ok the next day?

There are meetup groups for SAHDs here. I never met them at the library. It took a happenstance event for me to meet my friend, so the most important thing is just to get out and live. It wouldn't have happened otherwise.

Dicey

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2024, 02:40:24 PM »
Is there an emoji for pretending to cough while saying bullshit?
Damn, we need a like button.

Sibley

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2024, 09:38:53 PM »
The biggest thing that I'm seeing OP is that you may be wildly unrealistic regarding your martial arts and biking while having a toddler and newborn to care for. You know the toddler, but the new baby isn't here yet, so you just don't know.

You should prepare for the possibility that leaving the house will just not be possible for some period of time unless you have 3rd party child care. Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

FallenTimber

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2024, 11:19:49 PM »
My two cents: if there is any chapter in life you will never regret, it’s being a SAHD. There will be hard days, as you already know, but there will be a beauty in it that you will reflect on for the rest of your life. And the bond you build with your children will be far more valuable than what any job could ever offer you.

I’m a SAHD and homeschool / unschool my two kids. I’m writing this from a tent in the desert on a weeklong camping trip with each kiddo asleep next to me while DW is out of town. For me, life doesn’t get any better than this. I absolutely love life and getting to experience it with these two.

Kris

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2024, 06:57:06 AM »
My two cents: if there is any chapter in life you will never regret, it’s being a SAHD. There will be hard days, as you already know, but there will be a beauty in it that you will reflect on for the rest of your life. And the bond you build with your children will be far more valuable than what any job could ever offer you.

I’m a SAHD and homeschool / unschool my two kids. I’m writing this from a tent in the desert on a weeklong camping trip with each kiddo asleep next to me while DW is out of town. For me, life doesn’t get any better than this. I absolutely love life and getting to experience it with these two.

My husband was a SAHD to his daughter for her first five years, and he would say exactly the same thing.

Smokystache

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2024, 05:51:23 AM »
A topic I haven't seen mentioned yet is how much of a benefit this can have for your spouse's career and the mental health for both of you (while not ignoring the fact that being a SAHD/P is challenging, as is being a sole-source of income spouse). My spouse has stayed at home and it has allowed me to significantly advance my career and earning opportunities. Need to travel for a business opportunity ... no problem. Need to work crazy hours for a few days to take advantage of a significant opportunity - my spouse has me covered.

With two young children, there are so many appointments and sick days. When both of you are employed outside the home, you have to determine who will cover these appointments (split 50/50? Have 1 always do it ... and then are they resentful that it isn't more equal? etc.) I will tell anyone who will listen that being able to focus more on my career and business because my spouse covers most of the household responsibilities is a major factor in my success. As long of you both feel that you're in the best role for each of you, then it can be a huge psychological advantage -- and even the potential to advance one's career more quickly, if that's what they want.

Ron Scott

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2024, 06:27:38 AM »
Have you considered mom staying home instead?  Might be a better care giver.
So, you like playing with matches and lighter fluid?

That's a big, fat, sexist "might".

Surely you jest.


Your interpretation seems sexist.  I'm just suggesting that since the OP appeared to be making a proposal for selecting a caregiver based on incomes, that the other spouse, despite higher income, might be the better caregiver.  I made no attribution to sex/gender as the reason for that.

I stand with GilesMM here.

He suggests that the couple consider the mother regardless of income and the courageous woke police of the internet get their shorts in an uproar? It was a simple observation and you have to get your high-and-mighty act on? Sooo fucking tired of this…

Is it some kind of rule now that SAHx’s have to have lower incomes? Or maybe whether the man or the woman is better at raising a child is like a coin toss? Does anyone live in the real world and face real world issues, or is life some kind of academic term paper, with all social decisions pre-ordained?

I’d think they’d be bad parents by NOT considering it.

Praying this woke shit will please just die a natural death already.


[MOD NOTE: Ignoring the OP's intent with this entire topic. Gaslighting us into pretending the original wasn't sexist. Accusing everyone who calls you out as 'woke'. Of all the things that need to "die a natural death"...  I've learned we actually have to say something or this stuff keeps going.]
« Last Edit: April 22, 2024, 07:34:49 AM by FrugalToque »

Dicey

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2024, 06:35:00 AM »
Have you considered mom staying home instead?  Might be a better care giver.
So, you like playing with matches and lighter fluid?

That's a big, fat, sexist "might".

Surely you jest.


Your interpretation seems sexist.  I'm just suggesting that since the OP appeared to be making a proposal for selecting a caregiver based on incomes, that the other spouse, despite higher income, might be the better caregiver.  I made no attribution to sex/gender as the reason for that.

I stand with GilesMM here.

He suggests that the couple consider the mother regardless of income and the courageous woke police of the internet get their shorts in an uproar? It was a simple observation and you have to get your high-and-mighty act on? Sooo fucking tired of this…

Is it some kind of rule now that SAHx’s have to have lower incomes? Or maybe whether the man or the woman is better at raising a child is like a coin toss? Does anyone live in the real world and face real world issues, or is life some kind of academic term paper, with all social decisions pre-ordained?

I’d think they’d be bad parents by NOT considering it.

Praying this woke shit will please just die a natural death already.

Did you miss this?

Have you considered mom staying home instead?  Might be a better care giver.

[MOD NOTE: What.]


Tass

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2024, 07:04:46 AM »
OP explicitly said he WANTS to be a stay at home dad. He did not ask for opinions on which parent should stay at home. He didn't even say that he wants to stay at home because he has a lower income. "Have you considered that you might be a worse caregiver than your wife would be?" was unsolicited and undermining. The only part of the OP it could possibly be relevant to was his question "What social issues have you faced as a SAHD?" because it fits perfectly into a widespread sexist narrative that SAHDs hear constantly.

The quickest way to let the subject die--which is what I want, because I'm far more interested in the actual subject OP raised than this argument--is to drop it.

FrugalToque

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2024, 07:39:38 AM »
I'll be very explicit here, since it's lost on a couple of you.


---
The OP said: I want to be a stay at home Dad. Any advice from ppl about money, gotchas, returning to work 5+ years later?


Derailment: Let mom stay at home, she might be better.


Mod: No. Don't do that


Gaslighting: What? That's not sexist. I didn't say anything about sex or gender. Woke police! Woke police!
---


Let's not mince words. When a man is saying, "I wanna stay at home" and someone says "Let the woman do it. She's better", that someone is intentionally invoking the sexist assumptions of our society. Maybe out on Twitter/X, you can pretend this away, but you're not fooling anyone.


a) you got off topic
b) you were, in fact, invoking sexist assumptions about parenting


Well, I'm the "Woke Police" and I'm here to get this thread back on topic.


Thank you.
Toque.

Kris

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2024, 07:57:23 AM »
Have you considered mom staying home instead?  Might be a better care giver.
So, you like playing with matches and lighter fluid?

That's a big, fat, sexist "might".

Surely you jest.


Your interpretation seems sexist.  I'm just suggesting that since the OP appeared to be making a proposal for selecting a caregiver based on incomes, that the other spouse, despite higher income, might be the better caregiver.  I made no attribution to sex/gender as the reason for that.

I stand with GilesMM here.

He suggests that the couple consider the mother regardless of income and the courageous woke police of the internet get their shorts in an uproar? It was a simple observation and you have to get your high-and-mighty act on? Sooo fucking tired of this…

Is it some kind of rule now that SAHx’s have to have lower incomes? Or maybe whether the man or the woman is better at raising a child is like a coin toss? Does anyone live in the real world and face real world issues, or is life some kind of academic term paper, with all social decisions pre-ordained?

I’d think they’d be bad parents by NOT considering it.

Praying this woke shit will please just die a natural death already.


[MOD NOTE: Ignoring the OP's intent with this entire topic. Gaslighting us into pretending the original wasn't sexist. Accusing everyone who calls you out as 'woke'. Of all the things that need to "die a natural death"...  I've learned we actually have to say something or this stuff keeps going.]

In what universe do either of you think they hadn’t considered having mom stay home? It’s what culture assumes and strongly condones. Making a decision that goes against that bias has necessarily weighed that option.


Your outrage is misplaced, Ron. As is your unsolicited opinion, imho.

poetdereves

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2024, 08:31:45 AM »
@FireLane  - I appreciate the library idea! I think about its usefulness for me as an adult, but I forget that they cater activities to children.

@Sibley  - Thanks for the reminder that it doesn't always turn out how you expect. DW and I have had a really easy time with DS, but easy kids aren't always a guarantee. I really enjoy my chances to get to workout or be outdoors, but I understand those things may get put on the backburner for a while. Jiu jitsu and mountain biking aren't super easy with a newborn, but I do have a full home gym I have built over the past few years which can suffice when I need a quick energy burn. Maybe it will be at 4AM while DW is breastfeeding the baby (if we can work that out like we did with DS), but at least it is something.

@FallenTimber  - I appreciate the reality of this comment being written from the middle of it. The newborn phase has its complications for sure, but the future years of getting to do stuff like that makes it all worth it. Probably one of my favorite comments.

@Smokystache  - Your perspective is one that has been at the forefront of our conversations. DW works from home at all times, and for some reason, even in 2024, people think that WFH means that she can just get up and go do whatever needs to be done around the house/with the kids. It just isn't true. When she's working, she needs uninterrupted time to do her job. The bummer about the WFH situation is that when our kid has been sick or the nanny has an appointment and needs a day off she is usually the one to bite the bullet because my job is on call and critical. There's rarely an option to leave if needed and I am often uncontactable for hours at a time when I am working. Me staying home solves a lot of this, especially as they get to be school aged.

@GilesMM  and @Ron Scott - I am not offended or bothered by either of your comments. I can identify as a stay-at-home-mother if it makes it easier for both of you guys since you both got your undies in such a bundle. I don't spend a lot of time on forums or social media and didn't realize adults actually get so enthused by something that their brains aren't used to. DW is active on the forums and will probably soon comment about how much better equipped I am to handle our two kids and for her to continue to grow her career. Her field is remote and the income possibilities are nearly limitless, while mine is capped unless I decide to go back to more school for further certifications or give up 80-100+ hours a week to expand my income. I have read helpful comments from both of you on many other topics and know you are both intelligent, but I would really appreciate it if both of you would go stir the pot somewhere else unless you have something else valuable to contribute. I am getting good feedback from others that will ultimately help guide my decision and I'd hate it for two bored old guys to ruin something cool. Thanks.

Sibley

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2024, 09:49:45 AM »
@Sibley  - Thanks for the reminder that it doesn't always turn out how you expect. DW and I have had a really easy time with DS, but easy kids aren't always a guarantee. I really enjoy my chances to get to workout or be outdoors, but I understand those things may get put on the backburner for a while. Jiu jitsu and mountain biking aren't super easy with a newborn, but I do have a full home gym I have built over the past few years which can suffice when I need a quick energy burn. Maybe it will be at 4AM while DW is breastfeeding the baby (if we can work that out like we did with DS), but at least it is something.

Even if baby is high needs, it will get better. Just takes time. And don't discount the toddler. You're going to throw a massive rock into his happy pond, and even the best kid is going to have some adjustment struggles. Again, you'll get through it.

TheFrenchCat

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2024, 09:51:20 AM »
I'm not a dad, but I stayed home once my daughter was born, and started working remotely, part time once she was about 9 months old.  So I have a few specific tips that I hope will help:

1) My husband occasionally works from home as well, so I've had to learn when I can't bother him and what is too much.  Even when DD isn't home,  I try to stay out of the office space where he works as much as possible.  Any interaction I initiate I try to keep the same as I would if I were texting him while he's at the office.  You probably already have some experience with that, but I think it might become more important.

2)  I'm glad you plan to keep up with your activities!  Building activities into my routine to combat loneliness has been the most difficult part about staying/working from home for me. 

3) Make sure you both actively are taking time for breaks.  DH and I also had a system we called "primary parenting."  I'd ask him if he could primary parent for X amount of time, and we'd both know that if DD needed anything that he'd be the first one to take care of her.

I hope if you do this next year that it turns out awesome for all of you!  Also, you may see more dads at events as your kids get older.  I don't know any SAHDs but I know plenty of dads who regularly take their kids to after school activities.

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2024, 09:55:25 AM »
As a follow on to TheFrenchCat, I agree very much with #2, as well as the point about seeing a lot more dads engage after the kids are of a certain age. I won't speculate on why that is, but I see more dads than moms at after school & sporting events/activities, so I think that will get easier over time, and you will find more connections as your kids age.


poetdereves

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2024, 10:13:31 AM »
@TheFrenchCat and @MaybeBabyMustache - I like the primary parenting idea. I'm pretty sure DW and I do the same thing, but we don't really have a word for it. We can both kind of just tell. I do see it being something I will have to work on managing because DW is busier at work than I am currently, so I will often do the primary parenting all the way throughout the evening without issue. I can see that being a bit more daunting if I am not out daily either at work or doing recreational activities. We will both be thoroughly tired, but could look at each other's daily situation as a "break" and think that we aren't getting one ourselves.

Also, the point #2 is encouraging. I usually attend my jiu jitsu classes at lunchtime and I'd guess that probably 15/20 of the guys are minimally employed or primary caretakers and very present in their kid's lives. Many of them coach their kid's weekend sports teams because they're either wealthy or the SAHD. If that's what I can look forward to, I can handle the younger years where I am a bit lonelier but also more heavily involved in promoting becoming a truly decent person to my kids while they're on the younger side.

afuera

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2024, 12:15:54 PM »
My husband is a SAHD of two toddlers (2YO and 3YO).  It was definitely rough the first couple years when they were so little and we also moved across the country 1.5 years ago so he lost a lot of his friends but he is thriving as a SAHD now.  He gets a lot of help from grandma, has joined the local SAHD network, and has made other SAHD or firefighter (non-regular hours) friends at both the library and the gym. 

I would say go for it, we haven't regretted choosing the SAHD path and I'm patiently waiting until we can FIRE and I can join him :).


wageslave23

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2024, 12:40:34 PM »
I think with modern work schedules, the lines are blurred for stay at home parents.  My wife works part time and my job is flexible, work from. So I will take our daughter to the park on a Tuesday morning when my wife is working or we'll both go to story time when she isn't working and there's usually a few dad's or couples there with their kids. The gym used to be a ghost town in the middle of the day during the week. Now it's packed. Doesn't seem like many people actually work 9-5 anymore. So I think you'll be fine. Also as others have said, once they start school and after school activities then it's seems like the ratio is more like 60/40 dads to moms.  Enjoy, I'm jealous. I'll hopefully be joining you in a year or two.

economista

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2024, 02:37:30 PM »
I just wanted to share that my husband is a stay at home dad and he really enjoys it. I wish I could give more practical advice or share more about how we make it work, but I think our situation is so different that it wouldn't actually be helpful. He is blind, so even though he is the stay at home parent he can't take them out and about for activities, or go to dad groups, or anything like that because he can't drive. He also can't cook or really clean. So all of that is still on me, but he does do an amazing job of taking care of them and keeping them alive and thriving (2 and 3 years old).

Oh - one thing that worked really well, I went back to work after the first one when she was 3 months old, and then a few weeks later covid hit and I became a full time work from home parent, until the 2nd one was 2. So one huge benefit was that we didn't do any pumping at all, and the babies were both still exclusively breast fed. He would just bring me the child whenever she needed to eat and I would nurse her with my camera off on meetings or while working. That was super nice. I would just feed her and then hand her back to him when she was done and he would take over again until the next feeding.

Dicey

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2024, 06:33:14 PM »
And...we're back on track, I hope. I'm a huge Amy Dacyczyn fan. Though some of the details may be hilariously out of date (it predated most of the internet), the themes are still spot-on and stand the test of time well. She has a lot of great ideas on how to live well while one parent is staying home with the littles. You can still get the print version at your favorite used book source, or you can flip through it here, free. Lots of food for thought.

https://archive.org/details/completetightwad00amyd

And I second, third, and fourth the library! There are so many awesome programs and things to do in general. Ever noticed there's frequently a park near a library? Go to Story Time, eat your packed lunch in the nearby park and boom! it's naptime and a good chunk of the day is over. There are also places like Gymboree or My Gym (or similar). They can be spendy, but damn if they aren't social. A Zoo Pass can be very worthwhile if you have one close by.

I love the "primary parenting" approach!

FireLane

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2024, 07:54:59 PM »
Not to derail this thread any more, but to me, it's a benefit of being the stay-at-home spouse that I can prove by example that dads are just as good at parenting as moms.

My wife has chosen to keep her career a little longer, and I'm happy to support her. I like being the one to walk my son to school and pick him up every day, to take him to play dates with friends, to help him with his homework and take care of him on summer breaks and vacations. It shakes up people's entrenched assumptions by showing them there are other ways to do things than the societal default.

There are too many people, including some right here in this thread, who hold a knee-jerk belief that parenting is women's work. When the sexism of that attitude is pointed out, they get huffy and defensive. They're upset because other people are challenging assumptions that they didn't realize were questionable.

Isn't that just like FIRE? Lots of high earners don't retire early because they think it can't be done. We FIRE folk disprove that belief by example. And when they encounter one of us, many of those people get angry and defensive, too, because we're doing something that jars against their assumptions. The only way they can regain their sense of equilibrium is to argue that we're doing it wrong, somehow, and to assert that their choices were the correct ones all along.

poetdereves

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2024, 07:53:55 AM »
@wageslave23 - your point about modern schedules holds true for me as well. Most of my friends that I hang out with now do not work a typical 9 to 5. That is something nice to consider.

@economista - I resonate well with your points about breast-feeding. DS has never taken a bottle in his life. We tried just for convenience purposes to pump and use a bottle, but he was breast-fed only by choice. May or may not work the same for the second one, but that situation that you said was common for you guys is one that is common around our house too.

@FireLane - I really appreciate your perspective. I was talking to my wife yesterday about how I would be excited to be a stay at home dad because I do not fit the typical mold of a stay at home parent. I find enjoyment in not looking like the norm. I guess it is the same in our finances. I like that we are working towards stealth wealth, but look more poor than the typical person in our social circle. We make enough money that we could live a typical lavish life full of debt, but choose to go against the grain and try to do something better with our life. My parenting style is very similar.

Laura33

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2024, 08:43:50 AM »
@TheFrenchCat and @MaybeBabyMustache - I like the primary parenting idea. I'm pretty sure DW and I do the same thing, but we don't really have a word for it. We can both kind of just tell. I do see it being something I will have to work on managing because DW is busier at work than I am currently, so I will often do the primary parenting all the way throughout the evening without issue. I can see that being a bit more daunting if I am not out daily either at work or doing recreational activities. We will both be thoroughly tired, but could look at each other's daily situation as a "break" and think that we aren't getting one ourselves.

FWIW, I'd very much recommend talking through how you both see this working at a pretty detailed level.  At this point, you probably both have assumptions about how the workload will be split, and those likely don't align 100%, and when you're both sleep-deprived and stressed is not the best time to identify those disconnects.  ;-)

When we had DD, I took the lead in many parenting/childcare things, because I was working very part-time from home, and DH was working a demanding new office job.  It was easy to toss a load of laundry in between calls, or start dinner when I had a break, you know? 

By the time we added DS, we were both working full-time back in an office (and, you know, had a toddler who also happened to be VERY ADHD).  DH just kept doing the things he'd always done -- sharing dropoffs and pickups, doing the dishes and his own laundry, etc.  But that left me to pick up the slack.  As you can imagine, this did not go particularly well.  I got very resentful that he just assumed I'd do all the primary kid stuff, when I had just as many time constraints as he did, and one night I just lost my shit.  After I calmed down, though, I realized that he was just doing what I had trained him to do, and we had never talked about how things would change with either the move/dual office jobs or the addition of the second kid. 

Your situation is obviously different, because you will in fact be voluntarily taking on most of the added burden of the second kid.  But you also can't really know what all that will entail until the second comes along -- how much time it will take, how difficult it is to juggle managing both kids at once, the added volume of laundry and dishes, etc. etc. etc.  So it may be helpful to talk through how you think that will work now -- but no matter what, make sure you continue to communicate as things develop and require changes.

merula

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2024, 09:19:37 AM »
My husband has been SAHD for 12 years. A lot of the discussion about SAHP focuses on the benefits when the kids are really young (saving on daycare, being there for the big early milestones), and those are all great, but in my experience the benefit doesn't diminish when they hit school age, because school schedules still assume that there's a full-time parent at home.

My kids' elementary school runs from 9:30-4. There's before and after care available, but it's not at all flexible. You basically have to sign up at the beginning of the year and if your schedule changes, any shifts are subject to availability. That care isn't available the first week of school. There are some free after-school programs because it's a Title I school, but that scheduling is even worse, and we've had issues with our kids being kept afterschool when we expected them home on the bus, or being sent home on the bus when we expected them to stay after school.

Also, since the general culture has shifted away from latchkey kids (or at least, latchkey kids in elementary), we once had an issue where a bus driver make our 4th grader get off the bus even though they had dropped their house key and couldn't find it (twilight at 4:30 in MN). Luckily, a neighbor was around and we weren't far from home, but that was a little scary. And that's not even getting started on all the midday choir concerts, art exhibitions, teacher conferences, etc. that get scheduled completely irrespective of standard work schedules.

Chris Pascale

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2024, 01:20:14 PM »
I stayed home while getting my bachelor's after getting out of the military.

My experience:
The kids were very happy with me being home; I felt very lonely, but only because I wasn't near any family. We had the typical adjustments of moving to a new place, and I didn't help things much by being such a Yankee, but around the time we were leaving (3 years later) we'd made some inroads in the community and could have fit in to some degree.

About managing a house:
The work of the at-home parent of little kids does not end, and is not very satisfying. The dishes are never done. The laundry keeps piling up. And "How many times do I have to tell you to that the SHOES GO where the the shoes go?!?! By the time I'm flinging my wife's work boots across the house she's wondering what my problem is.

'You know,' she said, 'I had a hard day at work, and it would be nice if I could just come home to a nice, peaceful place.'
'At least you get to come home from work! I'm still there! This shit never ends!'

The experience really helped our relationship when my wife was the at-home parent again, because my understanding was that being home wasn't so great.

Returning to Work
My return to work was in such a different field - from military to accounting - so there's no fair comparison I can offer. I was starting fresh.

GuitarStv

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2024, 01:27:51 PM »
Shit really does never end with kids.  Neither my wife nor I stayed home after the birth of my son, and even having him away at daycare for several hours every day wasn't much of a break.  It's an awful lot of work, and my only fear for a stay at home parent is that you really want to make sure that your significant other is going to be on board with taking some of that load when you need to share it.  Because you will need to share it.

Psychstache

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2024, 02:21:04 PM »

About managing a house:
The work of the at-home parent of little kids does not end, and is not very satisfying. The dishes are never done. The laundry keeps piling up. And "How many times do I have to tell you to that the SHOES GO where the the shoes go?!?! By the time I'm flinging my wife's work boots across the house she's wondering what my problem is.

'You know,' she said, 'I had a hard day at work, and it would be nice if I could just come home to a nice, peaceful place.'
'At least you get to come home from work! I'm still there! This shit never ends!'

Yeah, the gods really missed the mark on punishing Sisyphus. They could have made him a 21st century stay at home parent, no rock required.

jeninco

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2024, 02:40:40 PM »
To follow on to @merula's point, I've worked part time (<1/2 time) from home since our kids were born, and there were definite advantages to being home during middle- and high school. Mostly because kids will talk when they're ready to talk, and more face time provides more opportunities for that. And because I could pick up a bit of the carpool slack, during soccer season.  Also, because our high school has an open campus, so during once/week long lunch the kids sometimes came here for lunch with their friends.

I appreciated the opportunity to get to meet some of their friends, and to be the parent who's around (but not all up in their business: I did have work to do). It also meant I could volunteer in their schools all the way through -- often, but not always, with groups of kids that didn't include them -- but I still got to know the office staff and a number of the teachers.

But yeah, the chores and work of keeping small kids alive never end, and @Laura33 is, as usual, completely right about communicating clearly and often with your spouse about expectations and divisions of labor!

okits

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2024, 03:05:38 PM »

About managing a house:
The work of the at-home parent of little kids does not end, and is not very satisfying. The dishes are never done. The laundry keeps piling up. And "How many times do I have to tell you to that the SHOES GO where the the shoes go?!?! By the time I'm flinging my wife's work boots across the house she's wondering what my problem is.

'You know,' she said, 'I had a hard day at work, and it would be nice if I could just come home to a nice, peaceful place.'
'At least you get to come home from work! I'm still there! This shit never ends!'

Yeah, the gods really missed the mark on punishing Sisyphus. They could have made him a 21st century stay at home parent, no rock required.

Agreed.  @Chris Pascale , that section above gave me flashbacks.  One can indeed hit a point where you look at your spouse and complain "you get to go to work!"  Appreciation is not plentiful when you are a SAHP and the pay is even worse. ;)

When I was at home with a baby, we had a SAHD in our group.  My impression is that once all the moms got to know him, he fit in just fine.  Part of the friend group at library story time, part of the pack of parents doing stroller walks to the park.  No one thought it was weird he was a dad, we were all just trying to keep our demanding offspring alive and stimulated with appropriate educational and social activities.

Chris Pascale

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2024, 09:51:07 PM »

About managing a house:
The work of the at-home parent of little kids does not end, and is not very satisfying. The dishes are never done. The laundry keeps piling up. And "How many times do I have to tell you to that the SHOES GO where the the shoes go?!?! By the time I'm flinging my wife's work boots across the house she's wondering what my problem is.

'You know,' she said, 'I had a hard day at work, and it would be nice if I could just come home to a nice, peaceful place.'
'At least you get to come home from work! I'm still there! This shit never ends!'

Yeah, the gods really missed the mark on punishing Sisyphus. They could have made him a 21st century stay at home parent, no rock required.

Agreed.  @Chris Pascale , that section above gave me flashbacks.  One can indeed hit a point where you look at your spouse and complain "you get to go to work!"  Appreciation is not plentiful when you are a SAHP and the pay is even worse. ;)

When I was at home with a baby, we had a SAHD in our group.  My impression is that once all the moms got to know him, he fit in just fine.  Part of the friend group at library story time, part of the pack of parents doing stroller walks to the park.  No one thought it was weird he was a dad, we were all just trying to keep our demanding offspring alive and stimulated with appropriate educational and social activities.

So many times in this forum I've hit 'post' and think, god, I'm an idiot, and you dudes are always like, 'no. You're our idiot.'

It's really very touching.

I do wish I could go back and be a better at-home parent, but I guess I'm the at-home parent now, being 100% remote about 2.5 years. Today, before heading out for tutoring, I sat with kid no. 3 and listened to some music. It was nice.

FireLane

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #48 on: April 24, 2024, 07:16:45 AM »
My husband has been SAHD for 12 years. A lot of the discussion about SAHP focuses on the benefits when the kids are really young (saving on daycare, being there for the big early milestones), and those are all great, but in my experience the benefit doesn't diminish when they hit school age, because school schedules still assume that there's a full-time parent at home.

My kids' elementary school runs from 9:30-4. There's before and after care available, but it's not at all flexible. You basically have to sign up at the beginning of the year and if your schedule changes, any shifts are subject to availability. That care isn't available the first week of school. There are some free after-school programs because it's a Title I school, but that scheduling is even worse, and we've had issues with our kids being kept afterschool when we expected them home on the bus, or being sent home on the bus when we expected them to stay after school.

Second this!

School schedules are really tough for two-working-parent households. The school day doesn't align with 9-5 jobs. There are holidays, week-long winter and spring breaks, and of course summer vacation. And on top of that, kids get sick all the time.

Being able to stay home with my son and take care of him when necessary, without burning vacation days or having to scramble for childcare, has been a huge blessing. I don't know how we would have done this if my wife and I were both working full-time jobs.

PMG

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Re: I think I want to be a stay at home dad
« Reply #49 on: April 24, 2024, 07:31:38 AM »
My spouse (m) and I (f) are in the middle of exploring the option of my being a SAHP to our almost two year old. My health and mental health dictated needing significant lifestyle change. We took it as a chance to move closer to his formerly remote work location to invest in his career.

Im working part time remote winding down a toxic burnout work situation while full time parenting for the last month. When I am finally free of this job in a few weeks I am hoping to just SAHP for a while and see how it goes. I am anticipating it being a huge quality of life improvement for all of us. Already we are thrilled to be healthy and not cycling through constant sickness. The toddler no longer has the daycare cough.

Sorting out roles has been a lot. We have barely scratched the surface. Others mention talking it thru with your partner. I’d encourage talking it thru again  and again and again. Both of you doing visioning or something around the four relationships above, thinking about the next 1,2,5,10 years. We what we thought was a lot of talking about it, but we miscommunicated a lot. It is hard with busy jobs and kids leaving very little time for deep communication. One technique we used after we discovered some miscommunication was to share a paper notebook journal. I probably did more writing than my spouse ( which makes sense since I was the one putting my foot down about my work situation and initiating a change), but he got to read through and see my thought process and make his own notes and comments and get his thoughts straight, and we each could do the work when we had the time and energy for it.

I am enjoying the heck out of being home with my kid. She is a delight. I can’t wait to be done with this work and have more freedom to be a human. I am also enjoying caring for our family. Yes. Unending and little thanks… but at least now I’m not squeezing it all into the weekends in order to sit at a desk way too far from my kid all week. I do enjoy cooking, perhaps not the daily grind of it, but I’m leaning into that. I can get a lot of satisfaction out of caring for my family.

I’m not sure yet what our long term plan is. We’ll see how this goes and how I heal, but I’ve found this conversation timely and wanted to share the journal idea. Good luck to you OP!!

ETA: the journal wasn't just thoughts and feelings, it also had budgets and projections exploring how dropping to one income temporarily or longterm would affect us.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2024, 07:51:09 AM by PMG »