Epic FU Money Stories to help others

[SwordGuy]

Over in the Epic FU Money Stories, I was asked to start a new thread just for this.   

My FU story is a bit different from ones I've told in the past.

I guess I'll start with the time-honored question, "What is FU money for?"

It's the ability to have a certain amount of freedom to do what ought or needs to be done.   

For example, one might use that freedom to tell an abusive person in authority, "No.  That is unacceptable."

Or one might use it to walk away from an intolerable situation.

Those two situations probably cover 95+% of all FU stories.

In my FU story, which is currently ongoing, I'm doing both.

I'm giving a big FU to an abusive person in authority and I'm using FU money to enable walking away.

"But, SwordGuy, aren't you already retired for almost 4 years?"

Yeah, I retired from my place of employment, but I didn't retire from being a responsible citizen of the world.

I used some of my FU money to send funds to the Ukrainian Army as a FU to Putin.   I'll be sending more each month because he's a person in authority that needs to receive as many FUs as it's possible to deliver.    In case you want to hire the Ukrainian Army to deliver some FUs on your behalf, here's the link:  https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi

We've opened up our home to a refugee from Ukraine.    As some of you know, I make art (such as it is) in a variety of mediums.   So rather than just put a random person (and possibly their kids) in our spare bedroom, I looked for an artist who already knew how to sell products on the internet and made things that could be made in my own workshops at home.   That way, they would have a place to live and a way to make money until they could go home or get back on their feet.   They'll arrive in a couple of weeks.    This particular artist already had a visa from an earlier exhibition of their work, so we (hopefully) dodged that bullet.

But don't worry, I have several more refugee artists that could be helped.   All that's needed is a place to live and a place nearby to make their work (and possibly some FU money used to purchase some initial supplies on their behalf).   

Right now, I'm looking for a place for a ceramic artist, a graphic artist/jr web developer, a wood/resin worker, and a pianist.   Some are alone, some have a kid or two.   I expect more will contact me.   I've been reading the US Foreign Affairs Manual to learn the rules for visas and working in country so that I can write a solid invitation letter that won't cause problems with getting a visa or at the US border.

I have to tell you, this is the best FU money I've ever used because it's literally being used for real freedom.

And when my kids and grandkids ask what I did during this extremely difficult time in our world's history, where freedom is on the line, I'll be able to tell them with pride about my efforts.   As General Patton would say, I won't have to tell them I shoveled shit in Louisiana or be limited to bragging about my high savings rate this year.

I hope I'll hear from you with explanations of how you're using some FU money in a similar way.

I was of two minds about doing that.

You see, in the Epic FU Money Stories thread, we read about how someone used their FU money to help themselves, and we clap and cheer. 

And that's the end of it.

What I would really like to see as a result of this thread is this:

• Read about how someone used their FU money to help SOMEONE ELSE.
• Be inspired and use some FU money to help someone else, hopefully right away.

This story happens to be a FU to Putin story.   And I hope I've inspired you to some more of those, because we need a world full of them.   

And as I mentioned in the story above, I know of other refugees you can help out.   It will take time and persistence to make it happen because the big organizations just aren't geared to think this way.   If you've got a place for a refugee to stay, that's awesome.   If you've got a place for them to work, that's awesome.  Both?  Truly awesome!   Let me know.

But I'll be equally happy to learn that you, for example, hired a colleague to do some work for you to help tide them over after a sociopathic boss fired them.    You would be surprised how little it can take to really help someone out.

FU Money Stories that we create, when they are done to help others, are good for the soul. 

[Laura33]

I don't have anything near that awesome.  It's largely little stuff.  For ex, my gym did teams for the Crossfit Open, and offered points for each charity we donated to.  So on an impulse, I went to a charity navigator website, typed in "Ukraine," and gave $25 each to 25 different charities, just because I could.

But none of that really feels like FU money, because it's not like there was any risk to me.  The only thing I do that entails some version of personal risk is to say out loud at work the things that the less-powerful employees don't think they can say.*  I have always had a reputation for being direct (early in my career, I overheard someone asking whether an individual was "direct like an asshole, or direct like Laura33?").  But once I realized I was FI, I felt much more strongly both the freedom to speak up for those who feel they can't and a deep sense of responsibility to do so.  I don't control the outcome, but I can at least make sure people's concerns are heard.

*They actually can, because that's our culture, but they often don't realize that.

[Margie]

I usually hate talking about the things I do for others (seems like I am looking for praise when the truth is I really like to be helpful if I can be) and I try to do most anonymously. 

Anyhow, a few years ago a friend of a friend of a friend's mother was terminally ill.  Her daughter was recently divorced and was struggling financially.  She could not afford to take time off to spend with her mother.  I was home with my children but prior to that had worked in the same industry and could easily do her job.  I approached her boss and asked that she allow me to do the work as a volunteer position so she could still pay her actual employee while letting her have time off.   

They were both very surprised that I offered to work three afternoons a week until I was no longer needed.  So, I did it.  For free.  I worked hard to make it seamless for both of them.  One day the daughter was very upset because her mom wanted to pay for her parking (at the hospice) I told her that I thought she should let her mother 'mother her' as she probably needed to do so.  She just cried and cried.

Two months pass and her mother dies.  It was sad beyond belief; she was well loved.  Her boss gave me a check even though I told her she didn't need to.  I meant what I said when I said I would volunteer.  I gave it back.  Her boss bought my children passes to a few children's activities (museum, fun fair, indoor trampoline place, etc) Probably over $500 in passes.  So, I did accept them.  The daughter thanked me so many times.  The mother called me before she died to thank me for being such a good friend to her daughter. 

About a year later, a bouquet of flowers and a beautifully written card arrived from the daughter thanking me profusely and I have kept if for years.   Always reminds me that people are always more valuable than money BUT money lets people help others if they choose to do so.

That is probably the best thing my FU money has allowed me to do.

Other smaller things I do: I send gift cards for grocery stores to people I know who are laid off, I pay extra for student day trips so if a child can't pay the school can use my money to send them, when my children were smaller I used to send extra money to the book fair so they could buy a friend who forgot their money a book.  I regularly buy work boots for the men's shelter so the men can have properly fitting boots and they can get temp work if they want (and are able).  I also get sponsorships for my children's sport events but I always spread it through the team and it usually works out that I pay for a tournament so no one else has to chip in.  I also try to tip a lot particularly if the server is grouchy.  I figure they must be having a horrible day and maybe a little kindness will help them turn it around.  Who really knows what someone else is going through. 

I am inspired now to do something nice this week.  I like to keep my help local but I will take another look at Ukraine options. 

Happy Helping everyone!!!

[AlanStache]

SwordGuy, what does the commitment look like to someone who opens there home?  While I dont have an art studio I do have a good bit of unused space in my home.  What links should I start reading?

[SwordGuy]

SwordGuy, what does the commitment look like to someone who opens there home?  While I dont have an art studio I do have a good bit of unused space in my home.  What links should I start reading?

We're doing this on our own because none of the organizations we talked to could (or would) assist us.   So, the only rules that apply are Uncle Sam's visa and immigration and asylum rules (they aren't the same).

Under US asylum law, people are allowed to enter the US in any manner they are able to do so and they have up to a year to get around to notifying the US government that they need asylum.    After learning about the Holocaust in Germany the US decided they didn't want to be sending refugees back to that kind of hellhole.     And 70 years,  nativist xenophobic and/or racist elements in the country have attempted to water that down with policies and procedures to block people from getting into the US and asking for asylum.   But the law remains what it is. 


If someone is going to get on a commercial airplane to the US they'll need a visa before they board the plane.   (See policies/procedures above.)    There are two steps to this.  Getting a visa and being admitted into the country with said visa.   There are lots of types of visas.   Most refugees will want to go home to Ukraine if the Russians are expelled.  (Or for Russian anti-war activist refugees, if Putin and crew are removed from power.)   Visas come with gobs of restrictions on what people can and cannot do.    One of the biggies is work authorization.    Without it they can't legally get a job.    Here's a link to a (fairly) clear Foreign Affairs Manual (FAM) document on B1, B2, or B1/B2 visas, which are the tourist and/or business visas.  https://fam.state.gov/fam/09fam/09fam040202.html 

One reason I've been focusing on helping creative artists who already know how to make a living by making art and selling it online is that they don't have to "get a job".   They just need a place to live and a place to work.  Technically, they would be selling goods via their business overseas.    With a business visa, they also have some legal abilities to conduct business.

The particular artist we're helping already had a B1/B2 visa due to doing some museum exhibitions in the US.   So we didn't have to deal with  them getting a visa.   One way to assist in getting a visa (or to get in the country) is to send them an invitation letter.    We tried very hard to structure our invitation letter to fit within the FAM B1/B2 visa requirements.   

We included an expiration date to our invitation.   In our case it was 31-Jan-2023.  We referenced two professional conferences we would be attending, one this summer and one in Jan, 2023, so there was a clear reason for the dates.   Everything we included in the letter is 100% true and aboveboard.

In our case, they're purchasing their ticket to the US.  We'll reimburse them after they get here.    Had they been unable to do so, we would have taken the chance and funded it ourselves.

Obviously, we don't want other people living with us forever.   At some point they'll need to return home or make their own way in the world.  We're hoping that our assistance will jump start them doing so.   We arbitrarily picked 31-Jan as a cut-off.  Might happen quicker and it won't be horrible if it takes a few more months.   Other folks would need to pick timeframes that fit their life.

I do ask that you think about how they will get home and include that in your plans.  We're planning to fund their travel to their next destination (unless their business does great and they can easily afford it themselves).   The last thing they need is to be stranded on the other side of the world and unable to get home.

If the Russians are out of Ukraine by then, I may go back with him and help him repair his studio and apartment.  Those renovation skills may come in handy.

I hope that helps!

[Laura33]

Anyhow, a few years ago a friend of a friend of a friend's mother was terminally ill.  Her daughter was recently divorced and was struggling financially.  She could not afford to take time off to spend with her mother.  I was home with my children but prior to that had worked in the same industry and could easily do her job.  I approached her boss and asked that she allow me to do the work as a volunteer position so she could still pay her actual employee while letting her have time off.   

They were both very surprised that I offered to work three afternoons a week until I was no longer needed.  So, I did it.  For free. 

This is truly epic.  Well done.

[SwordGuy]

Anyhow, a few years ago a friend of a friend of a friend's mother was terminally ill.  Her daughter was recently divorced and was struggling financially.  She could not afford to take time off to spend with her mother.  I was home with my children but prior to that had worked in the same industry and could easily do her job.  I approached her boss and asked that she allow me to do the work as a volunteer position so she could still pay her actual employee while letting her have time off.   

They were both very surprised that I offered to work three afternoons a week until I was no longer needed.  So, I did it.  For free. 

This is truly epic.  Well done.

Absolutely agree!

[uniwelder]

SwordGuy, what does the commitment look like to someone who opens there home?  While I dont have an art studio I do have a good bit of unused space in my home.  What links should I start reading?

We're doing this on our own because none of the organizations we talked to could (or would) assist us.   So, the only rules that apply are Uncle Sam's visa and immigration and asylum rules (they aren't the same).

@SwordGuy  I applaud your effort.  In regard to organizations, there is a website
 https://www.ukrainetakeshelter.com/search?iname=Fayetteville%2C%20North%20Carolina%2C%20United%20States&ilat=35.053&ilong=-78.8787
directed at linking Ukrainians with Americans.  It doesn't offer any legal help, or really any help at all.  Its simply provides a way for people to message each other, and could potentially harbor scammers.  There are a handful of people signed up that are located in Fayetteville, NC.  I have no idea if any of the people you're trying to find homes for are acquainted with each other, but it could be convenient or helpful if they happened to get located in the same area.

My wife and I have discussed participating, but we're not there yet.  I have talked with someone else in my area that has signed up (I contacted them through the site) and they haven't had any requests yet.  I get the impression there are likely many more people signed up as hosts as there are Ukrainians that need (or can access) a space in the US.

[mm1970]

Anyhow, a few years ago a friend of a friend of a friend's mother was terminally ill.  Her daughter was recently divorced and was struggling financially.  She could not afford to take time off to spend with her mother.  I was home with my children but prior to that had worked in the same industry and could easily do her job.  I approached her boss and asked that she allow me to do the work as a volunteer position so she could still pay her actual employee while letting her have time off.   

They were both very surprised that I offered to work three afternoons a week until I was no longer needed.  So, I did it.  For free. 

This is truly epic.  Well done.

Absolutely agree!

+3

[SwordGuy]

@uniwelder , thank you so very much!   This may turn out to be wonderfully helpful!

[former player]

For those in the UK this is a decent starting point, which also mentions a number of mainly UK based charities that can link Ukrainian refugees to homes being offered -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60735121

This service (in Ukrainian) seems to work worldwide -

https://www.shelter4ua.com/ua

Offering a home to a stranger is not necessarily an easy thing to do, and both you and the person you are offering the home to need to follow all the necessary legal processes and .safety recommendations.

I'm going to a local meeting this evening which is looking at setting up a local support group for the programme in the UK, but with considerable scepticism about whether my participation would be right both for me and a potential refugee guest.

[BicycleB]

From brief past experience supporting asylees and longer experience knowing successful asylees, kudos to you SwordGuy for finding the correct procedures and using them. It sounds like you're on the right track.

One fine point from past reading is while the potential asylee has one year before their right to file asylum expires, it may still be better to file ASAP after arriving. If I understood correctly, the person can file for affirmative asylum only until they're caught breaking the rules. Filiing proactively first - "affirmatively" - is allowed, seems encouraged, and provides some protections. I'm not an attorney or any expert, so disregard if more authoritative sources differ.

I don't have a home to share for now so am just chipping the little info I have (am in touch with one Ukrainian family, but they're settling in Europe; have reserved some $ in case they need it, after the rush of goodwill subsides). Fwiw, links on affirmative asylum and work permits in case some of the family members do desire legal work status:

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-and-asylum/asylum/the-affirmative-asylum-process
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/asylum-applicants-work-permit-timing-32297.html

[RyanAtTanagra]

I approached her boss and asked that she allow me to do the work as a volunteer position so she could still pay her actual employee while letting her have time off.

Holy crap.  I don't know what award that is, but you win it.

[nessness]

Anyhow, a few years ago a friend of a friend of a friend's mother was terminally ill.  Her daughter was recently divorced and was struggling financially.  She could not afford to take time off to spend with her mother.  I was home with my children but prior to that had worked in the same industry and could easily do her job.  I approached her boss and asked that she allow me to do the work as a volunteer position so she could still pay her actual employee while letting her have time off.   

They were both very surprised that I offered to work three afternoons a week until I was no longer needed.  So, I did it.  For free. 

This is truly epic.  Well done.

I'm curious about the legality of this - it's generally illegal for for-profit companies to use volunteer labor. But from a moral perspective, @Margie did an awesome thing!

[Margie]

Anyhow, a few years ago a friend of a friend of a friend's mother was terminally ill.  Her daughter was recently divorced and was struggling financially.  She could not afford to take time off to spend with her mother.  I was home with my children but prior to that had worked in the same industry and could easily do her job.  I approached her boss and asked that she allow me to do the work as a volunteer position so she could still pay her actual employee while letting her have time off.   

They were both very surprised that I offered to work three afternoons a week until I was no longer needed.  So, I did it.  For free. 

This is truly epic.  Well done.

I'm curious about the legality of this - it's generally illegal for for-profit companies to use volunteer labor. But from a moral perspective, @Margie did an awesome thing!

@nessness I am in Canada and none of us even thought about it...it was actually about 15 years ago (time home with my kids has flown by!)  They are now late teens so at the time they would have been still preschool age! 

Making me realize I need to think a bit more about what I can do now that I have some time (kids older) and covid is starting to recede a bit.   
 

[dcsaver]

Some years ago, I was working a job I had grown weary of. I had just discovered MMM and was saving 50% of my income but was not yet FI but well on my way. During the recession, My boss told me I had to fire my co-worker (we were a 2-person dept.) I asked him could we do it another way - have both of us work half time - and he agreed. Had I not been a saver, I would not have been able to save my co-worker's job.

[former player]

Some years ago, I was working a job I had grown weary of. I had just discovered MMM and was saving 50% of my income but was not yet FI but well on my way. During the recession, My boss told me I had to fire my co-worker (we were a 2-person dept.) I asked him could we do it another way - have both of us work half time - and he agreed. Had I not been a saver, I would not have been able to save my co-worker's job.

Nice one, well done.

[Ron Scott]

I have a fundamental aversion to the concept of “FU money” as the primary prerequisite for retirement: It connotes running-away vs. running-toward. ‘FU’ is the worst emotional motivation for a life decision that should be self-affirming, not vindictive. It is neurotic, baby-bathwater thinking. It misses the mark by a mile. It’s sad.

That said, the OPs good heartedness is laudable. Let’s celebrate it separately from the general mess of an FU motivation to quit working altogether.

[MoseyingAlong]

I have a fundamental aversion to the concept of “FU money” as the primary prerequisite for retirement: It connotes running-away vs. running-toward. ‘FU’ is the worst emotional motivation for a life decision that should be self-affirming, not vindictive. It is neurotic, baby-bathwater thinking. It misses the mark by a mile. It’s sad.

That said, the OPs good heartedness is laudable. Let’s celebrate it separately from the general mess of an FU motivation to quit working altogether.

@Ron Scott
I think we have different interpretations of FU money. I don't see it as "the primary prerequisite for retirement" except for the fact that if you are FI, you definitely have FU money.
I see it as having something saved that you feel able to say FU to poor treatment of yourself or others. So your choice is not "continue being treated horribly at work vs. feed your family," it is now "maybe quit & find a better place while using savings to feed your family."
Even if someone has absolutely no interest in FIRE and finds work fulfilling, I would advocate for everyone to have FU money although I'd more call it enough to have options. So they can say no to a horrible boss or client or project that turned sour. One of the things that inspired me to become a CFP was people I knew in the Air Force who needed to have a job lined up for the day they left so they could pay their bills. Would have been better for them to have more set aside so they could find a good kit. Or how many people reupped even if they didn't want to because they had no savings. I thought that was very sad and preventable.

[SwordGuy]

FU money has nothing to do with retirement.  The level of FU money needed is way, way less than that required for retirement.

FU money enables you to say, "No, I won't do this 'illegal/immoral/fatal to innocent people' action you have just ordered me to do." and not have to worry about feeding your family.   

FU money enables you to say, "No, you don't get to sexually harass me.   Shut up and leave me the hell alone." and not have to worry about paying the bills.

FU money enables you to say, "No, working 60 hour weeks instead of 40 hour weeks just isn't something I'm willing to do." and not have to worry about paying the bills.

FU money enables you to say, "No, I will not miss my daughter's wedding because you failed to get me the data to do my report on time." and not have to worry about paying the bills.

It enabled me to say, when my boss unilaterally decided that my department and I would (needlessly) be on call and issued pagers for that purpose, "When I and my team write such bad code that we need pagers, *I* will find another line of work."      That was a hard NO on something that would have destroyed our quality of life.

It enabled me to defend myself and others at work because I wasn't afraid of losing my job.


It's a life empowering thing to have.   I see it as 100% wholly positive.   There's nothing inherently petty about saying "I won't put up with your shit anymore."

[Kris]

FU money has nothing to do with retirement.  The level of FU money needed is way, way less than that required for retirement.

FU money enables you to say, "No, I won't do this 'illegal/immoral/fatal to innocent people' action you have just ordered me to do." and not have to worry about feeding your family.   

FU money enables you to say, "No, you don't get to sexually harass me.   Shut up and leave me the hell alone." and not have to worry about paying the bills.

FU money enables you to say, "No, working 60 hour weeks instead of 40 hour weeks just isn't something I'm willing to do." and not have to worry about paying the bills.

FU money enables you to say, "No, I will not miss my daughter's wedding because you failed to get me the data to do my report on time." and not have to worry about paying the bills.

It enabled me to say, when my boss unilaterally decided that my department and I would (needlessly) be on call and issued pagers for that purpose, "When I and my team write such bad code that we need pagers, *I* will find another line of work."      That was a hard NO on something that would have destroyed our quality of life.

It enabled me to defend myself and others at work because I wasn't afraid of losing my job.


It's a life empowering thing to have.   I see it as 100% wholly positive.   There's nothing inherently petty about saying "I won't put up with your shit anymore."

+1.

Well put, SwordGuy. There is nothing neurotic about having boundaries, and ensuring you are in a position to enforce them.

[Dicey]

I have a fundamental aversion to the concept of “FU money” as the primary prerequisite for retirement: It connotes running-away vs. running-toward. ‘FU’ is the worst emotional motivation for a life decision that should be self-affirming, not vindictive. It is neurotic, baby-bathwater thinking. It misses the mark by a mile. It’s sad.

That said, the OPs good heartedness is laudable. Let’s celebrate it separately from the general mess of an FU motivation to quit working altogether.

Hmmm, let's not, m'kay?

FU could also stand for "Freedom Unlimited" if profanity bothers you.

[ducky19]

I have a fundamental aversion to the concept of “FU money” as the primary prerequisite for retirement: It connotes running-away vs. running-toward. ‘FU’ is the worst emotional motivation for a life decision that should be self-affirming, not vindictive. It is neurotic, baby-bathwater thinking. It misses the mark by a mile. It’s sad.

That said, the OPs good heartedness is laudable. Let’s celebrate it separately from the general mess of an FU motivation to quit working altogether.

Have you even read any of this blog, or posts in this forum, @Ron Scott? I sometimes wonder reading your posts.

@SwordGuy nailed it with his definition of FU money - it has nothing to do with retirement. It's being empowered to say "no" when asked to do something immoral, illegal, etc.

[SailingOnASmallSailboat]

FU money has nothing to do with retirement.  The level of FU money needed is way, way less than that required for retirement.

FU money enables you to say, "No, I won't do this 'illegal/immoral/fatal to innocent people' action you have just ordered me to do." and not have to worry about feeding your family.   

FU money enables you to say, "No, you don't get to sexually harass me.   Shut up and leave me the hell alone." and not have to worry about paying the bills.

FU money enables you to say, "No, working 60 hour weeks instead of 40 hour weeks just isn't something I'm willing to do." and not have to worry about paying the bills.

FU money enables you to say, "No, I will not miss my daughter's wedding because you failed to get me the data to do my report on time." and not have to worry about paying the bills.

It enabled me to say, when my boss unilaterally decided that my department and I would (needlessly) be on call and issued pagers for that purpose, "When I and my team write such bad code that we need pagers, *I* will find another line of work."      That was a hard NO on something that would have destroyed our quality of life.

It enabled me to defend myself and others at work because I wasn't afraid of losing my job.


It's a life empowering thing to have.   I see it as 100% wholly positive.   There's nothing inherently petty about saying "I won't put up with your shit anymore."

+1

[Adventine]

I've always loved calling it "FU money", and whenever I have needed to use my own, I have always deployed it in exceptionally polite ways.


About three years ago, when my mother was going through the final, painful stage of her difficult battle with cancer, my sisters and I all took several weeks off work so that we could focus on caring for her. One of our uncles was (understandably) concerned and asked us if we would get fired for being away from work for so long. I only smiled and said, "Let them try."


My uncle was amused and left it at that. No one got fired. In fact, all of our employers were extremely gracious and sent financial support when our mother passed away.

[Ron Scott]

I have a fundamental aversion to the concept of “FU money” as the primary prerequisite for retirement: It connotes running-away vs. running-toward. ‘FU’ is the worst emotional motivation for a life decision that should be self-affirming, not vindictive. It is neurotic, baby-bathwater thinking. It misses the mark by a mile. It’s sad.

That said, the OPs good heartedness is laudable. Let’s celebrate it separately from the general mess of an FU motivation to quit working altogether.

@Ron Scott
I think we have different interpretations of FU money. I don't see it as "the primary prerequisite for retirement" except for the fact that if you are FI, you definitely have FU money.
I see it as having something saved that you feel able to say FU to poor treatment of yourself or others. So your choice is not "continue being treated horribly at work vs. feed your family," it is now "maybe quit & find a better place while using savings to feed your family."
Even if someone has absolutely no interest in FIRE and finds work fulfilling, I would advocate for everyone to have FU money although I'd more call it enough to have options. So they can say no to a horrible boss or client or project that turned sour. One of the things that inspired me to become a CFP was people I knew in the Air Force who needed to have a job lined up for the day they left so they could pay their bills. Would have been better for them to have more set aside so they could find a good kit. Or how many people reupped even if they didn't want to because they had no savings. I thought that was very sad and preventable.

This is a good point—especially, if not used as a rationale for retirement, FI should be a goal early on in one’s working life. I don’t see either FI or FU as a good rationale for making a decision to retire.

I am not sure anyone really NEEDS “FU money” however. The few times I left unhealthy workplaces I looked for my next job while working, had very little cash in the bank and a negative net worth.

What I don’t like is the general connotation of FU money. It seems to empower someone or some others at the expense of self-directedness.

[saguaro]

It's a life empowering thing to have.   I see it as 100% wholly positive.   There's nothing inherently petty about saying "I won't put up with your shit anymore."

+1 to this

FU money enabled me to leave a job that where I (and others) were being taken advantage of and there was widespread thinking within the company that employees were just supposed to just take it.    It was not an easy decision but 16 years later I see it was one of the most positive, empowering things I have done.   It also enabled DH to early retire a couple of years ago when his not-that-great job situation became even worse.   

[iluvzbeach]

PTF. Also, I have a nearly identical scenario as what saguaro described above. Without FU money we wouldn’t have been able to do what we’ve done.

[Kris]

PTF. Also, I have a nearly identical scenario as what saguaro described above. Without FU money we wouldn’t have been able to do what we’ve done.

I have a similar story. I was a department head, and was able to negotiate saving the jobs of other people who did not have FU money as part of my own exit strategy.

[SwordGuy]

What I don’t like is the general connotation of FU money. It seems to empower someone or some others at the expense of self-directedness.

What the heck does that last part mean?   

For example, I want my life to have a good work-life balance.   When an employer arbitrarily and unilaterally decides I will be working extra hours, and I have to go along with it because I desperately need the paycheck, my life's time is most definitely not "self-directed".   It's the exact opposite of that.  My life becomes employer-directed, not self-directed.

But when I have FU money, I can afford to say, "No.   I will not work those extra, unwanted hours.  I will spend those hours in the manner which best pleases me."   That's the epitome' of self-directed.

FU money enables self-direction.   Lack of FU money leaves you vulnerable to employer-direction of your life.

Now, most of the time, one can say "No." or "Stop that." with a reasonable dose of courtesy and politeness.   But sometimes, like when my wife was working on a ladder at a construction site using a pry-bar to remove fire-damaged ceiling components and a worker walked by and patted her on the butt, it enabled her to say, "Did you want to wear this pry-bar home?" in a voice that would freeze the marrow in your bones.    FU money enables YOU to choose how much politeness is appropriate.   Lack of FU money means your ass gets groped on demand.   I can't see how I can make it clearer that having FU money empowers self-direction.

[NorthernIkigai]

I have a fundamental aversion to the concept of “FU money” as the primary prerequisite for retirement: It connotes running-away vs. running-toward. ‘FU’ is the worst emotional motivation for a life decision that should be self-affirming, not vindictive. It is neurotic, baby-bathwater thinking. It misses the mark by a mile. It’s sad.

That said, the OPs good heartedness is laudable. Let’s celebrate it separately from the general mess of an FU motivation to quit working altogether.

@Ron Scott
I think we have different interpretations of FU money. I don't see it as "the primary prerequisite for retirement" except for the fact that if you are FI, you definitely have FU money.
I see it as having something saved that you feel able to say FU to poor treatment of yourself or others. So your choice is not "continue being treated horribly at work vs. feed your family," it is now "maybe quit & find a better place while using savings to feed your family."
Even if someone has absolutely no interest in FIRE and finds work fulfilling, I would advocate for everyone to have FU money although I'd more call it enough to have options. So they can say no to a horrible boss or client or project that turned sour. One of the things that inspired me to become a CFP was people I knew in the Air Force who needed to have a job lined up for the day they left so they could pay their bills. Would have been better for them to have more set aside so they could find a good kit. Or how many people reupped even if they didn't want to because they had no savings. I thought that was very sad and preventable.

This is a good point—especially, if not used as a rationale for retirement, FI should be a goal early on in one’s working life. I don’t see either FI or FU as a good rationale for making a decision to retire.

I am not sure anyone really NEEDS “FU money” however. The few times I left unhealthy workplaces I looked for my next job while working, had very little cash in the bank and a negative net worth.

What I don’t like is the general connotation of FU money. It seems to empower someone or some others at the expense of self-directedness.

Looking for a new job while working is fine for moderately unhealthy workplaces. I’m sure you can imagine that not all situations are moderate.

Also, abusive or incompetent employers count on people having to find another job before quitting their current horrible one. “Yeah, but they won’t find another job easily, so they have no choice but staying” is literally one of the reasons employees aren’t treated better in many situations. Making sure you have that option by having a healthy stash, regardless of the job market or other circumstances, is something EVERYONE should do. It has nothing to do with FIRE as such.

[SwordGuy]

"Fuck me or get fired." isn't as uncommon as many people might think.  Doesn't have to be said quite that bluntly, but that's the situation that all too many women find themselves in.   

Yeah, maybe you can sue.   From the unemployment line.   While you're broke, and thus able to afford the best lawyers in what's essentially a "he said, she said" situation that normally doesn't have any witnesses.

FU money allows you to respond appropriately.

[Dicey]

I have a fundamental aversion to the concept of “FU money” as the primary prerequisite for retirement: It connotes running-away vs. running-toward. ‘FU’ is the worst emotional motivation for a life decision that should be self-affirming, not vindictive. It is neurotic, baby-bathwater thinking. It misses the mark by a mile. It’s sad.

That said, the OPs good heartedness is laudable. Let’s celebrate it separately from the general mess of an FU motivation to quit working altogether.

@Ron Scott
I think we have different interpretations of FU money. I don't see it as "the primary prerequisite for retirement" except for the fact that if you are FI, you definitely have FU money.
I see it as having something saved that you feel able to say FU to poor treatment of yourself or others. So your choice is not "continue being treated horribly at work vs. feed your family," it is now "maybe quit & find a better place while using savings to feed your family."
Even if someone has absolutely no interest in FIRE and finds work fulfilling, I would advocate for everyone to have FU money although I'd more call it enough to have options. So they can say no to a horrible boss or client or project that turned sour. One of the things that inspired me to become a CFP was people I knew in the Air Force who needed to have a job lined up for the day they left so they could pay their bills. Would have been better for them to have more set aside so they could find a good kit. Or how many people reupped even if they didn't want to because they had no savings. I thought that was very sad and preventable.

This is a good point—especially, if not used as a rationale for retirement, FI should be a goal early on in one’s working life. I don’t see either FI or FU as a good rationale for making a decision to retire.

I am not sure anyone really NEEDS “FU money” however. The few times I left unhealthy workplaces I looked for my next job while working, had very little cash in the bank and a negative net worth.

What I don’t like is the general connotation of FU money. It seems to empower someone or some others at the expense of self-directedness.

Looking for a new job while working is fine for moderately unhealthy workplaces. I’m sure you can imagine that not all situations are moderate.

Also, abusive or incompetent employers count on people having to find another job before quitting their current horrible one. “Yeah, but they won’t find another job easily, so they have no choice but staying” is literally one of the reasons employees aren’t treated better in many situations. Making sure you have that option by having a healthy stash, regardless of the job market or other circumstances, is something EVERYONE should do. It has nothing to do with FIRE as such.

I'm not so sure at all. RS's comments appear to show a stunning lack of empathy.

[dcsaver]

FU money gives a worker agency and freedom most workers don't have.

[Malossi792]

Beautifully explained, @SwordGuy !
Also, ptf.
Thus far my stories lack the true altruism needed for this thread, but better late than never I guess :)

[glacio09]

This is more on the help side than the FU side but...

A friend called me up on Friday afternoon saying that her sister's boyfriend had threatened her sister, the cops were called, and they an hour to get anything they could out of the apartment. Could my husband and I help? We logged out of work early to get to a uhual place and put the rental on our credit card with no real thought to how much it was going to be. The final financial cost ended up being less than $100, but it was nice to be able to unburdan at least one problem for them without thinking about it. It's also nice that I didn't even consider my work. If my boss was seriously going to give me shit about leaving a few hours early on a quiet Friday afternoon, I'd walk away from them myself.

[Dicey]

This is more on the help side than the FU side but...

A friend called me up on Friday afternoon saying that her sister's boyfriend had threatened her sister, the cops were called, and they an hour to get anything they could out of the apartment. Could my husband and I help? We logged out of work early to get to a uhual place and put the rental on our credit card with no real thought to how much it was going to be. The final financial cost ended up being less than $100, but it was nice to be able to unburdan at least one problem for them without thinking about it. It's also nice that I didn't even consider my work. If my boss was seriously going to give me shit about leaving a few hours early on a quiet Friday afternoon, I'd walk away from them myself.

Nice! Hope the friend's sister is okay.

[RetiredAt63]

Plus just to toss in as a reminder, being FI doesn't mean you have to retire.  We have the term here, SWAMI, for those who like their jobs and continue to work.  I could have retired 3 years earlier than I did, but I loved those last 3 years and they also shaped my retirement. Having FU money and being FI gives you options.

[AMandM]

You don't have to call it FU money, but having a financial safety cushion also gives you more time. In our case, that meant me being able to be a SAHM, which made it possible for me to help out with time as well as money. An asylum seeker came to our church, and I was one of a few people who spoke her language. Apart from some financial support, I was able to drive her to medical appointments and translate for her there, help her with paperwork and filing taxes, line up ESL classes, help her find a job and housing, and organize her move.

[Laura33]

Now, most of the time, one can say "No." or "Stop that." with a reasonable dose of courtesy and politeness.   But sometimes, like when my wife was working on a ladder at a construction site using a pry-bar to remove fire-damaged ceiling components and a worker walked by and patted her on the butt, it enabled her to say, "Did you want to wear this pry-bar home?" in a voice that would freeze the marrow in your bones.    FU money enables YOU to choose how much politeness is appropriate.   Lack of FU money means your ass gets groped on demand.   

I love your wife. 

[SwordGuy]

Now, most of the time, one can say "No." or "Stop that." with a reasonable dose of courtesy and politeness.   But sometimes, like when my wife was working on a ladder at a construction site using a pry-bar to remove fire-damaged ceiling components and a worker walked by and patted her on the butt, it enabled her to say, "Did you want to wear this pry-bar home?" in a voice that would freeze the marrow in your bones.    FU money enables YOU to choose how much politeness is appropriate.   Lack of FU money means your ass gets groped on demand.   

I love your wife.

Me too!

She was working at a concrete factory, helping the manager with software and stuff that a smart and competent person can do, which is a lot.

One of the guys at the factory took a shine to her.   He asked her out.

"No, thank you, I'm married."

Over some months he kept asking.

Her answers changed to "No, thank you." to "No." to a polite "Leave me alone."

He was not deterred.

One day the fellow and a number of his co-workers were in the office.   They were talking amongst themselves.   The co-workers were egging the fellow on.   So, he saunters over to the counter and asks my wife out again, but this time all the other guys could hear and were also watching.

At this point, my wife had no further interest in being polite in any way, shape, or fashion.

Her answer was classic and she said it so that everyone in the room would hear it clearly.

"I'm sorry, but I don't date men whose breasts are bigger than mine."

He never bothered her again.

[ministashy]

It's a small thing, but FU money allows me to support a really innovative guy creating trash booms out of tires and plastic bottles for next to nothing, to keep plastic garbage from heading out to the ocean in the Philippines.  (Just one island so far, but he's doing it on his own with no gov't support on his own dime + whatever donations he can get online).  It's a great solution that I'm hoping gets adopted by more poor countries that have little to no waste management and can't afford expensive solutions.  (Tropical Ocean Cleanup on Youtube, if anyone else is interested)

[scottish]

Now, most of the time, one can say "No." or "Stop that." with a reasonable dose of courtesy and politeness.   But sometimes, like when my wife was working on a ladder at a construction site using a pry-bar to remove fire-damaged ceiling components and a worker walked by and patted her on the butt, it enabled her to say, "Did you want to wear this pry-bar home?" in a voice that would freeze the marrow in your bones.    FU money enables YOU to choose how much politeness is appropriate.   Lack of FU money means your ass gets groped on demand.   

I love your wife.

Me too!

She was working at a concrete factory, helping the manager with software and stuff that a smart and competent person can do, which is a lot.

One of the guys at the factory took a shine to her.   He asked her out.

"No, thank you, I'm married."

Over some months he kept asking.

Her answers changed to "No, thank you." to "No." to a polite "Leave me alone."

He was not deterred.

One day the fellow and a number of his co-workers were in the office.   They were talking amongst themselves.   The co-workers were egging the fellow on.   So, he saunters over to the counter and asks my wife out again, but this time all the other guys could hear and were also watching.

At this point, my wife had no further interest in being polite in any way, shape, or fashion.

Her answer was classic and she said it so that everyone in the room would hear it clearly.

"I'm sorry, but I don't date men whose breasts are bigger than mine."

He never bothered her again.

Nice.    She should have started with that line instead of "No thank you".  8-)

[dividend]

I have one.
FIL was recently diagnosed with cancer, with a very uncertain prognosis.  One of my husband's sisters lives in Tokyo (we live in Kansas City).  She was stressing about the cost of plane tickets to come home on semi-short notice.  DH and I briefly discussed it, and then told her to just tell us what day she wanted to come home, and we bought her a ticket.  Cost? $2300.  Knowing we could get her home to see her dad for what might be the last time?  Priceless.  Best money we've spent all year.

[Must_ache]

That isn't "FU money" but rather "I have savings"

[jinga nation]

Wife's aunt across the pond isn't doing well financially but wants to visit us. I told my wife to send her whatever money she needs to get passport renewed/new issue, any other fees, local transport, and airfare. My wife asked if I was crazy. Told her it is:
A. cheaper for her aunt to visit us instead of us going there
B. She gets to visit the US for the first time.
C. What's the point of money if it can't be used to help family and friends and strangers?

I've been donating annually to the Lion's Eye Camps in Kenya for eye checkups, surgeries, etc.
And annual donations to an orphanage in the small Kenyan town where wife's and my great-grandparents first settled after emigrating from India.
Plus all the Kiva loans/donations. Instead of birthday gifts, we add more to our Kiva account.
And annual donations to our fav charities (Oxfam, MSF, Unbound, Conservation Fund, Save the Children) and our local YMCA.

Edit: Just realized none of these are "epic money stories" to me. But we give in the hope these monies will change the course of strangers' lives.

[SwordGuy]

Edit: Just realized none of these are "epic money stories" to me. But we give in the hope these monies will change the course of strangers' lives.

I heartily concur.

You've got the money to say, "FU, unfair world!  I can just go and make things better!  So I will!"

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

Edit: Just realized none of these are "epic money stories" to me. But we give in the hope these monies will change the course of strangers' lives.

I heartily concur.

You've got the money to say, "FU, unfair world!  I can just go and make things better!  So I will!"

To me, this is one of the most fun parts of reasonable levels of FI. You can give without stressing about the cost and, as you said, say FU not to a person or company or government or whatever that you are angry at (not that that is a bad thing) but just at something not being right or life being unfair.

[simonsez]

Fed emp here - a few years ago my branch had a new hire who was pregnant.  Feds accrue leave over time so you start with zero saved up.  She was planning on taking FMLA (unpaid).  I donated 40 hours of annual leave to her so she could have a week on me.  Another co-worker did similarly.  Not really difficult on my/our part (as many feds with several years of experience have more leave than they know what to do with as you can only carry over so much year to year) but the couple weeks of paid leave were much appreciated and was good for morale on the whole team.

[Dicey]

Fed emp here - a few years ago my branch had a new hire who was pregnant.  Feds accrue leave over time so you start with zero saved up.  She was planning on taking FMLA (unpaid).  I donated 40 hours of annual leave to her so she could have a week on me.  Another co-worker did similarly.  Not really difficult on my/our part (as many feds with several years of experience have more leave than they know what to do with as you can only carry over so much year to year) but the couple weeks of paid leave were much appreciated and was good for morale on the whole team.

Nice!