Author Topic: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?  (Read 3531 times)

Healthie

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Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« on: March 15, 2022, 09:39:20 PM »
My girlfriend and I are moving to a HCOL city this Summer with a hot real estate market. I'm mentally preparing myself for a difficult time buying a house. One of the pieces we're interested in is space - There are many 1000-1600 sq. foot houses. We want to have 2 kids, probably starting in 2-3 years. I'm trying to gather some info and opinions on house size, etc., so we can get creative when we view places. Ideally, we would find a 2000ish sq. foot house with 4 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms, but this may be out of our budget.  We like woodworking, art, gardening and entertaining. We're both handy people and we have some family connections for trades, so we're planning on buying something that needs updates & renos.

1. How much house have you been happy with?
2. As your family aged, did your housing needs change? Did you make those changes, or adapt?
3. What creative space-saving things did you do?
4. Looking at the future, is there anything you would specifically look for or add to your home?

We currently live in a roughly 1600 square foot house. The layout isn't great long term - no master bedroom, small kitchen/living room, no garage. I think if the layout was different and we had more space on the main living floor we would be okay in this size.

Jon Bon

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2022, 06:42:07 AM »
Yeah sorry, you are in a tough spot.

RE is crazy and unfortunately my crystal ball tells me it is not really going to improve.

That being said, there is no freaking way you can know what your housing needs will look like with kids.

At first they are small and they don't need much. So on paper even a 2 bedroom would be enough. The problem is that having kids changes you more then you can ever possibly realize. You are must likely going to want a place for grandma to stay, you are going to want a place for the kids the craft in, don't forget the massive amount of stuff that school age kids tend to acquire (sports, bikes, etc) And to round all this out, your hobbies will likely change a whole lot. Some of this is kids, and some is that just our hobbies/friends to change over time.

A bit on our story: We started in a 3 and 1 house, it was great for the wife and I. We had the first kid and we moved to a 3 and 2 (not because of the kid). Then the "good lord" blessed us with twins (this can happen to you too!) we moved again to a 4 and 2, but it had epic horrible additions so it was really a 3 bedroom with a den. Recently we ripped all that off and added on. Now we are up to 2000sqft with 4 and 3. So again your needs will change. Kids now are 9,7,7 FWIW.

Biggest gripe I have? Garage space? I have enough beds and baths now, but I would love more garage space. I just have a single bay and a construction business so I have lots of tools.

Space savings? Basements and attics, really cheap free space. Sounds like you are handy so go ahead and find a place and finish off one of those rooms. So the ceiling height is only 6.5 feet, who cares! Kids are short and it would be a perfect playroom for them!


Healthie

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2022, 04:41:47 PM »
Thanks Jon! Great insights, I hope I get a few more replies.

No, I don't think it's going to improve either. There was another post on here that talked about aspects of a house being a luxury, and I'm keeping that philosophy moving forward.

I definitely know about hobbies changing. I've played drums for 15 years and having the space to do that was important; but that has since switched to woodworking and I rarely pick up my sticks anymore. This has shifted to us seeking a basement suite in lieu of a dedicated drum room.

A nice benefit is we have some family moving nearby and if needed I can set my shop up in their space and we can share.

englishteacheralex

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2022, 05:09:07 PM »
I live in Honolulu, so VHCOL. I have two kids.

Started our marriage in a rented 2 bedroom, 800 SF upstairs apartment. Got knocked up three months into marriage, had the baby, and within six months we just couldn't stand that apartment anymore--not because it was too small, but because it was horribly hot and the location wasn't working for us anymore.

Moved out into another two bedroom, one bath rental--a 650 sf cottage with a backyard. Great location in some ways, and the space was adequate especially because of the backyard, which was great for our baby who was learning to crawl and toddle around. But it was still pretty cramped and the kitchen had no counter space.

We bought our first condo in 2015 for $364k (+$550/month fees, have gone up 3% a year since then), a 3 bedroom 2 bath 844 sf unit in a highrise building. We knew we wanted at least one more kiddo, so we knew a three bedroom was going to be necessary. Also knew we had to have laundry in the unit, a dishwasher, and 2 parking.

Had our second baby and decided we were done with having kids. Thus began our six year love/hate relationship with the 844 sf condo. No extra storage. No garage. Two car, tandem parking stall. It was exactly as much space as was absolutely necessary and no more.

I am really, really good at decluttering. I don't buy anything without thinking through whether we have space to store it. We wound up with a minivan because we used it as a garage to store the kids' bikes and some outside gear. We spent most of our time outside, which is do-able in Hawaii. The building had a pool, which helped a lot.

Mostly, we made it work. We had ingenious storage solutions. We saved money because there were lots of things we just couldn't buy. The neighborhood was very walkable and safe, and the commute was 15 minutes for me and 5 minutes for my husband. The kids were little and didn't need much. 

The pandemic lockdown was pretty brutal on us, though. There was no space to get away from the kids and work. We finally saved up enough to move into a 1400 sf townhome, which we just bought for $730k (+$1k/month fees, slated to rise 1% annually) in January 2022.

It has been amazing to have so much more space. 1400 square feet feels incredibly luxurious. Our kids are now 7 and 5 and it's really, really nice to be able to just send them outside to play--our new neighborhood is much more amenable to that than the high rise building was.

From a purely financial standpoint, I wish we lived in a place where real estate weren't so expensive, where we could have afforded a 1500 sf 4 bedroom 2 bath home right when we got married, and just stayed put the whole time, through the kids' being born and growing up. But we had to go the starter home/trade-up route. Buying that small condo turned out to have been a pretty good move, financially. It appreciated $110k in six years, and we paid down quite a bit of the mortgage in that time because of the low interest rate. It made it possible for us to upgrade.

In VHCOL areas, getting your foot in the door with housing that only hits your bare minimum needs is a good idea, in my opinion. The NYT rent vs buy calculator always put us way, way ahead in the "buy" category as opposed to the "rent" category. But we were willing to suffer through many years in quite a small living space. We made it work. Relatives who came to visit stayed in AirBnBs, and we mostly travel to see them in their areas so that things are less costly. We HAVE hosted relatives in the small condo, but it was a tight squeeze, as you can imagine. We aren't super close to our families, so only seeing them once or twice a year works for us.

affordablehousing

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2022, 05:23:35 PM »
If you are handy, don't discount the ability to modify a house. Even with a small addition, once your family starts using a space you'll know what you need and don't need. Also, until you have kids you have no idea what you need. Don't even pretend to imagine. It changes everything.

PDXTabs

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2022, 05:48:33 PM »
Layout is key. I, personally, would be entirely content living in a 1,350 square foot house with three bedrooms in your situation.

Chris Pascale

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2022, 06:35:13 PM »

1. How much house have you been happy with?
2. As your family aged, did your housing needs change? Did you make those changes, or adapt?
3. What creative space-saving things did you do?
4. Looking at the future, is there anything you would specifically look for or add to your home?


1. Wife and I were very happy in a 2 bed/2 bath apartment (a bedroom on each side with a main area in the middle for kitchen, dining and living), and that was with 6 of us. It was just for 6 months between houses, but my wife has said more than once that she'd like to move back to that exact apartment, if possible, in 15 years.
Currently, we have 4,000 ft', and it's working out really well. We are thinking that when the kids move out, we might prefer a house a couple places down that is 2700 ft' because it's 2 beds on the main floor with a 2 bed apartment, but, of course, we can convert part of our home into an apartment if we still want so much space.
2. We made the changes, and are still making them. In the tiny apartment example, we certainly had some adapting, but we were buying time in a crazy housing market.
3. Had we stayed in the tiny apartment, the small bedroom my wife and I occupied would have been fitted with a murphy bed that turned into a couch so that it would be another room during daytime hours.
See here for example: https://resourcefurniture.com/product-category/transforming-wall-beds-by-clei/murphy-bed-sofas/
4. I won't live in a house again that doesn't have central air. From 2012-2020 we had window units, and that was long enough.

Paper Chaser

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2022, 04:44:10 AM »
Things like gardening and woodworking may not have any impact on sqft needed. Those are more about lot size and storage/work space. Maybe you could do some woodworking in a basement, but that can be noisy (bad for sleeping kids), dusty, and awkward moving tools and projects up/down stairs and through the house.
I've got an attached garage for our vehicles, and a detached shop for projects, lawn tools, etc. I like having the separation between living space and working space. That being said, having kids is going to really impact the amount of time that you have for hobbies, and as noted hobbies may change completely.

As for the house itself, layout is critical. Older homes often have lots of character, but very little storage space and inefficient layouts. These things can be changed, but that takes time and money. A 1200sqft house built in 1940 is going to have different functionality than a 1200sqft house built in 1970. And they'll both be different than a 1200sqft house built in 2000.

Kids don't take up much space early on, but they do tend to acquire larger and larger things as they grow (larger furniture, bigger toys, sporting goods, outdoor toys, etc). We were gifted a large easel, and a "play" kitchen on the same day once. Considering the actual footprint of these two things, plus the space needed to actually use them, we basically had to find ~25-30sqft for these things at the drop of a hat, which can be harder than you'd think.


anni

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2022, 01:57:43 PM »
Just my $0.02 if it helps. I grew up in a 4-person household and we had about 1800 sq ft of living space plus a garage & attic. This is still the ideal amount of space for a reasonable house in my mind, except I would have preferred to be on a different floor from my parents lol. 3 bed, 1.5 bath, and it felt like it had TONS of space with a living room + dining room + den all in their own areas. Open floor plans are overrated IMO, I hope I don't get stuck with one when it's time for me to buy. We had family members come stay with us for extended trips and used pullout couches and a bunk bed in one bedroom to fit everyone comfortably. My old room has been my mother's craft room since I left at 17. Dining room was never used for dining so now it's an office. The "den" is still barely used unless company is over. My parents built a shed for storage and projects, and the garage is used for garage things. It's a multi-generational house now with my sibling and nibling still at home.

Healthie

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2022, 05:00:30 PM »
Thank you so much everyone for your input -

PDXTabs - I would, too. I think a house 75% of the living space was on the main floor, 25% on the bottom with a carport or garage, would work really well for me. Our house isn't a bad size; the layout just isn't awesome for us.

Paper Chaser - The workshop space is one of those luxuries I'd like to have, but I'm cognisant I may not get the space I want right away. My family who'll be in town are also woodworkers, and we've talked about making their garage the shop space; this way we don't each need individual sets of tools. We will likely live within 5-10 minutes from one another. Great comment about space; my current house didn't have much storage when I moved in. I'm hoping to keep it as a rental, and I've built several 2x4 and particle board shelves that I'll be leaving for the tenants; I also added a bunch of shelving to the 10x10 shed. My girlfriend is an artist and we're hoping to have a dedicated art/hobby/guest room, hopefully the kids could use it too.

anni - I agree, 1800sq is very good. I know lots of people who moved to the basement as teenagers; I'd like to have that option for our future kids too.

Chris Pascale - good to know about central air; we're moving somewhere hot for a good part of the Summer.

affordablehousing - this gives me some peace of mind, thank you.

englishteacheralex - great insight, thank you. We were hoping to just buy and sit for 20 years, but we may need to adopt the mentality that just getting into the market there is a massive win and we can upgrade when time and finances allows. The town is a tourist destination and we have friends all over the province that will likely visit; but frankly I don't see a problem with putting people in a guest room or having the 'future' kids share their room for a weekend.

Fishindude

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2022, 06:57:37 AM »
1. How much house have you been happy with?
2. As your family aged, did your housing needs change? Did you make those changes, or adapt?
3. What creative space-saving things did you do?
4. Looking at the future, is there anything you would specifically look for or add to your home?

1. Raising two kids we got by just fine with a 1400 SF three bedroom, one bath home from the time they were very young until they moved out.
2. We did a lot of remodeling, pay as you go.   Upgraded bathroom & kitchen, built a big deck and above ground pool with wrap around deck which was a good move.   Also built a big shop building.  A large outdoor area and workshop were important to us.
3. Restored a couple of the old small farm buildings and put them to good use; wood shed, tool shed, etc.   I do not ever recommend storing anything in your attic, just throw it out now, as you will eventually later.   For same reason, I do not recommend storage lofts in barns or sheds.
4. We are outdoor people and like our outdoor entertaining areas; deck, fire pit, big yard for kids and dogs, paved drive for kids scooters and bikes, a basketball hoop, etc.

Having said all of the above, our kids have been out and raised for a number of years now.   We've since removed the pool and the deck around it as it was no longer getting used much and installed a hot tub, and currently in the process of a major home renovation / expansion to get it up to new home standards as well as "old fart friendly"; walk in shower, grab bars, eliminate steps, everything needed on ground floor, etc.

PGSD

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2022, 06:13:38 PM »
Rather than the size, I'd focus more on the location. You can always extend the house, you cant change the location. Find the best school district and try to buy there.

ixtap

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2022, 07:07:20 PM »
i cannot imagine how bad a layout must be to find it hard to picture 4 people in 1600 sq ft, but then my sister in law can't imagine having less than 1000 sq ft per person. Just be sure you actually think about how you personally will use the space, rather than worrying about how other people use space.

NaN

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2022, 10:15:46 AM »
1. How much house have you been happy with?
I have a 2200 sq ft home that acted like 1700 before a modification to the layout. With a family of three (DW+DD) we have way too much house. The living room is barely filled with our furniture. Though it was nice with working from home. If I could build my own house I could probably optimize the space down to 1600 and be more than fine. I will say that one big aspect of space that gets lost when talking about sq ft is having cozy, quiet spots. In a condo with 1300 sq ft that was 2/2 ft felt great because the carpet on the second floor isolated enough sound from the main living space that it felt almost a separate living space. My 1 story house has mostly hardwood floors, and between the lack of rugs and furniture the sound carries a lot.
2. As your family aged, did your housing needs change? Did you make those changes, or adapt?
Not enough time.
3. What creative space-saving things did you do?
When we viewed our house three years ago before buying I had a vision of changing the layout in one area. DW thought I was nuts to buy this house. A laundry room, 3rd powder bath, and big den/office were practically unusable since it was so awkward to get to. But with the layout, there was an outdoor patio that I closed off last summer to connect that room with the main living area. Now this room (with carpet) and the hallway to it (the old covered patio) are used extensively. Again, back to the sound, this new room with carpet is a little sound oasis.
4. Looking at the future, is there anything you would specifically look for or add to your home?
No, at 2200 sq ft we are pretty happy but it is still probably way more for three (uncertain about a fourth). When looking at houses consider what modifications you could make it that could make the space feel better, but within reason (i.e. don't tear down structural walls!).

tthree

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2022, 04:57:55 PM »
Location and layout are key.

We have a family of 4 living in a 1250 sq ft raised bungalow.  There are 3 bedrooms and 1.5 baths upstairs.  We live one house in from one of the largest urban parks in Canada, and an extensive multipurpose pathway.  I can take the path all the way to work.

The raised bungalow is great, as there are full-sized windows in the basement.  Half the basement is a suite with a separate entrance, and the other half is a family room, additional bath and laundry room for us.  The rent for the suite covers over half of our mortgage payment.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2022, 04:59:44 PM by tthree »

calimom

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2022, 07:07:21 PM »
Every house is different, every family is different. Local climate has a lot to factor in: if you're in a temperate zone you can spend more time outdoors. In a place with harsher winters, you may want space to pursue hobbies inside. If you have two same-gendered offspring, they can share a bedroom indefinitely.

My own house is 1600 SF and I've been raising 3 kids as a single parent here. It's a typical ranch-style house with an open floorplan in the main living area. 1 primary bedroom with bath and 2 small bedrooms and another bath. When we moved in I shared the big bedroom with the then-baby. At the time I had a teen daughter and preschool son. When I wanted more space as the baby became a toddler, I had a small "annex" bedroom built off the primary. It is small and still serves as my bedroom. My baby is now 15 and the other two are in college or independent. Pretty soon I'll have too much house which is pretty much the cycle of child-raising and family need for real estate.

Sibley

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2022, 07:20:36 PM »
My family home growing up was 2 adults, 2 kids, 2-3 cats, 1200 sq ft, 1 bathroom.

People have, for centuries, raised very large families in very small homes.

beekayworld

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2022, 06:17:03 PM »
You will actually have more usable space in a layout with traditional rooms as opposed to an open floor plan.

Open floor plans feels more spacious because you see the living room, dining, and kitchen all in one glance, but by removing the walls, you lose the places you could have put furniture. Only so much furniture can float in a a space without walls.

Traditional layouts would have an entryway which blocked wind from going into the rooms, and also blocked guests from seeing all of the occupants sprawled on the couch, etc.

More importantly, in an entryway you would have a closet to house coats, mittens, scarves, umbrellas and a few random things like giftwrap and light bulbs and flashlights.

On the back of this entry closet you had a living room wall where you could put a desk with tape, scissors, address labels, envelopes, glue, writing paper, address book,  bills, etc. 

The dining room had walls so you could have a closet housing table clothes, napkins, the extra dining table leaves, and seldom-used things~ a punch bowl, serving platters, candlesticks.  One wall of the dining room could have a console table (nice to serve dessert from when you have guests. have the cake, plates, etc on the table); a place for artwork, and a couple of spare chairs flanking the console that you can put into use when you use the table leaves.

When people knock out the walls, you don't have anyplace for those specific things. Peoples individual coats, for example, have to go in their own bedrooms.

beekayworld

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2022, 06:21:03 PM »
Oh, the kitchen being closed off also lets the cook make a racket with pots and pans, playing music or listening to a podcast.  meanwhile a child can be doing homework at the dining table, and in a separate room (living room) others can be playing a video game or watching tv.

An open concept kitchen/dining/living doesn't give anyone peace and quiet. They need to go to their own bedroom to study, read, or make a phone call.

When the kids are little, some play area off the kitchen is nice, but through most of their childhood divided rooms work better.

DadJokes

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2022, 06:19:36 AM »
I didn't read all of the replies, so I'm sorry if I missed something that's already been addressed. Answering the questions:

1. How much house have you been happy with?
2. As your family aged, did your housing needs change? Did you make those changes, or adapt?
3. What creative space-saving things did you do?
4. Looking at the future, is there anything you would specifically look for or add to your home?

1. Our first house, which we thought was going to be our family starter home, was 1800 square feet, with three bedrooms and two bathrooms. For work reasons, we ended up moving to another nearby town.

Oddly, we had trouble finding another 1800 square foot house that wasn't in a...less than ideal neighborhood. We ended up buying a newly constructed 2200 square foot home with three bedrooms and 2.5 bathrooms. I think the extra space, which can mostly be attributed to an additional den, has worked out very well with a child. That extra space has been his play area.

2. Our family hasn't aged too much (married 7 years, child only 3), but I imagine that our current home will suit our family for as long as we want it to. Our child's bedroom is on the other side of the house from ours, so there will be plenty of privacy (for all of us) when he is older.

3. We haven't done too much for space-saving, other than being somewhat minimalist. As soon as our child ages out of something, I'm selling it or giving it away. When I bought a motorcycle, that meant that my car was going to move out of the garage to make room for the bike, which has opened up a lot of storage space. I'm planning to put in a lot of shelves and cabinets in the next year or so to optimize that space.

4. More garage space! I want a three-car garage, so that we can keep all three vehicles inside and still have some garage storage. I also don't think a kitchen can ever be too big, as I like to use a lot of space when cooking. I also wish that we had a covered back porch. We looked into adding one to our current home, but the layout doesn't really support it.

On the note of a covered back porch, something else I plan to keep in mind if we ever get another house: I want the house to face west or southwest, so that we can sit on the back porch in the evening and not have to deal with the sun in our eyes, but that's very nitpicky.

Healthie

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2022, 07:29:47 PM »
Thank you so much guys. I love this forum and the FIRE movement.

Some takeaways so far:

1. a House over 1300sq feet will function for a family of 4 with a good layout.

2. Climate determines whether socializing is done predominantly inside or outside - we're moving somewhere with good weather for 2/3rds of the year, so a smaller home will be less impactful for our social life.

3. Garages/workspaces are a premium - Our plan is to put my woodworking shop into whatever size garage we get. I'm hoping for a 2 car but most places have a 1-car.

driftwood

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2022, 07:48:38 AM »
Keep an open mind... when you own a house you can use any area of it for anything you want, and you can change things as needed.

My house has a den and a "living room" or as I call it "the great room". I'm all about use, so the den is where the comfy couch and TV is. The great room stays relatively empty, and is used for all kinds of things... it has been my gym, an area for wrestling with the kids, we've pitched our camping tent in the winter in there to "camp", my hammock is in there now on a stand. I will never turn it into a living room or sitting area or one of those formal stuffy rooms where you can't actually live.

My bedroom is huge with a big closet. My dresser fits in the closet, and my king bed only takes up a bit over half of the room. So now the other half is my gym. A bit odd, but before that it was just empty, unused space. And it freed up room in the great room for activities!

Use the concept of "storing on craigslist" throughout your life. You don't need everything now. It's OK to get rid of things that you then might need years later. Easy come easy go, there is always stuff on FB Marketplace to fill your needs. Don't let your garage become a storage unit. It's for vehicles, projects, or toys that get used.

Healthie

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2022, 07:22:35 PM »
Keep an open mind... when you own a house you can use any area of it for anything you want, and you can change things as needed.

My house has a den and a "living room" or as I call it "the great room". I'm all about use, so the den is where the comfy couch and TV is. The great room stays relatively empty, and is used for all kinds of things... it has been my gym, an area for wrestling with the kids, we've pitched our camping tent in the winter in there to "camp", my hammock is in there now on a stand. I will never turn it into a living room or sitting area or one of those formal stuffy rooms where you can't actually live.

My bedroom is huge with a big closet. My dresser fits in the closet, and my king bed only takes up a bit over half of the room. So now the other half is my gym. A bit odd, but before that it was just empty, unused space. And it freed up room in the great room for activities!

Use the concept of "storing on craigslist" throughout your life. You don't need everything now. It's OK to get rid of things that you then might need years later. Easy come easy go, there is always stuff on FB Marketplace to fill your needs. Don't let your garage become a storage unit. It's for vehicles, projects, or toys that get used.

Love the flexible approach - I continuously get rid of stuff on marketplace, although with having a number of hobbies and being a dilligent DIY home reno'er, we end up with a lot of tools and supplies.

roomtempmayo

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2022, 10:50:26 AM »
We're both handy people and we have some family connections for trades, so we're planning on buying something that needs updates & renos.

...

We currently live in a roughly 1600 square foot house. The layout isn't great long term - no master bedroom, small kitchen/living room, no garage. I think if the layout was different and we had more space on the main living floor we would be okay in this size.

My experience has been that a big garage makes a world of difference.  3/2 and 1600 square feet is plenty if it's laid out well and if you have additional project space.

I think my ideal in your situation would be to find a place permitted for a garage, but without a usable garage right now.  It seems like houses without garages take a big hit.

Then add an extra-deep garage with a full second story loft that could serve any number of purposes down the road.  You can put these up for a pretty reasonable cost out of kits now, and the increase to your property taxes is likely to be negligible if it's not documented as finished square feet.

This approach also allows you to pay-as-you-go, rather than sign up for a big mortgage on day 1.

Healthie

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2022, 09:00:00 PM »
We're both handy people and we have some family connections for trades, so we're planning on buying something that needs updates & renos.

...

We currently live in a roughly 1600 square foot house. The layout isn't great long term - no master bedroom, small kitchen/living room, no garage. I think if the layout was different and we had more space on the main living floor we would be okay in this size.

My experience has been that a big garage makes a world of difference.  3/2 and 1600 square feet is plenty if it's laid out well and if you have additional project space.

I think my ideal in your situation would be to find a place permitted for a garage, but without a usable garage right now.  It seems like houses without garages take a big hit.

Then add an extra-deep garage with a full second story loft that could serve any number of purposes down the road.  You can put these up for a pretty reasonable cost out of kits now, and the increase to your property taxes is likely to be negligible if it's not documented as finished square feet.

This approach also allows you to pay-as-you-go, rather than sign up for a big mortgage on day 1.

This seems super smart. I don't know what the bylaws of building a 2-story garage are, but this would be preferable - I play music sometimes and having a jam space that's soundproofed out of the house would be nice. Good advice, thank you.

Paper Chaser

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2022, 04:07:27 AM »
If the plan is to build a garage, make sure you know all of the limitations before you finalize the deal. Lot restrictions, set backs, sqft limitations, height restrictions, cosmetic appearance etc can all be aspects that local governments might object to or have very specific requirements. Some of these things can be overcome with permission (around here they're known as a "variance" but they open you up for public discourse at a zoning hearing and they're one more step of a process that adds another opportunity for somebody else to say "no" to your project plans). You may not be able to do what you want at all. Or there may be regulations that add to the cost of a building like that. This is where a good realtor earns their commission.

I bought my house with plans to build a detached garage, and I still had to tweak my initial plans a little bit to avoid going through the "variance" process and keep red tape and potential hang ups out of the picture. I had to move the building about 1 ft, had to make sure the overall height wasn't taller than my house, and had to downsize a covered porch to make sure that the sqft "under roof" of the garage was no more than 50% the sqft "under roof" of the house.

roomtempmayo

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Re: Smart ways to optimize your house? How much house is enough?
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2022, 08:34:40 AM »
@Healthie and @Paper Chaser , I'm guessing that garage code varies a bunch city to city.

We changed our building code a few years ago to allow two story garages on just about every lot to facilitate ADUs.  I was under the impression that California now has a similar code statewide, but I could be wrong.

The quirk is that while every new garage I see built here now has a full loft, none seem to clearly be serving as ADUs yet. 

A friend put up a new garage a few years ago, and he said doing a full loft didn't add much at all to the total cost.  He said the killer on turning it into an ADU is actually the plumbing cost.

Anyway, something to consider.  As was mentioned upthread, having lots of different spaces with walls can make small spaces more useful.  Doubly so if those are exterior walls.