POLL: Should the government mandate facial protection in crowded places ?

[DadJokes]

So you wrote 3 long posts opposing mandating masks.
I think your thought on police involvement is over blown but that's another issue.
What is your solution to reducing the infection rates ?? Do nothing ?? I mean the "do nothing" and let people use their best judgement isn't working.
We wasted 3+ months of shutdowns and the new cases are back to what it was before the shutdown. We can't have another shutdown. We have an easy solution to slow down the virus so I'm still befuddled on why so much opposition.

Education. Use words to persuade people to voluntarily wear masks. In a country where our highest elected official refuses to wear a mask and has stated publicly, multiple times, that he thinks mask wearing should be a personal decision, it makes ZERO sense for the government to *mandate* that individuals do anything.

Have you met many people in America?

The information is widely available. People are not wearing masks out of spite at this point because they think it's a political statement. My local professional sports team posted on social media encouraging people to wear masks, and the number of people complaining because "muh freedom" was absurd.

These same people are going to ignore a government mandate anyway. As such, it is going to fall to businesses to deny service to people without masks.

There are some state and local governments that seem to be doing a good job. Andrew Cuomo in NY comes to mind.

I live in the US now, so, yeah, I've met a few Americans. Most of the people in our neighborhood are doing our best to social distance and wear masks whenever we enter businesses. It's not that hard.

In the US we've got some incredibly smart marketing people. Somehow, they manage to convince consumers to purchase a shitload of useless crap, most of which they don't need. It seems like if state and local governments where covid is running rampant, right now, were to hire smart marketing people to conduct a media blitz, they could persuade people to voluntarily start wearing masks. Of course, doing that is complicated by the fact that an election is coming up in a few months.

The example of Hong Kong that expatartist mentioned above was good, I thought. The HK government literally just outlawed the wearing of masks in public, shortly before covid started, but because people there are convinced that masks help keep them healthy, they are mostly all wearing them anyway, even though it's against the law! In the short term, it may not be possible in the US, because of the upcoming election and, also, because of the dipshit in the WH, but convincing the people to wear masks, because it's in their own best interest, seems to me to be the best way to get people to comply, not forcing them to do it.

It doesn't matter who is in the white house. People around here would be doing exactly what they are doing now if Obama was in the white house. We can blame Fox News, the Koch brothers, Americans' longstanding distrust of government, whatever, but a significant number of Americans are going to ignore any recommendations from the government.

[Shane]

So you wrote 3 long posts opposing mandating masks.
I think your thought on police involvement is over blown but that's another issue.
What is your solution to reducing the infection rates ?? Do nothing ?? I mean the "do nothing" and let people use their best judgement isn't working.
We wasted 3+ months of shutdowns and the new cases are back to what it was before the shutdown. We can't have another shutdown. We have an easy solution to slow down the virus so I'm still befuddled on why so much opposition.

Education. Use words to persuade people to voluntarily wear masks. In a country where our highest elected official refuses to wear a mask and has stated publicly, multiple times, that he thinks mask wearing should be a personal decision, it makes ZERO sense for the government to *mandate* that individuals do anything.

Have you met many people in America?

The information is widely available. People are not wearing masks out of spite at this point because they think it's a political statement. My local professional sports team posted on social media encouraging people to wear masks, and the number of people complaining because "muh freedom" was absurd.

These same people are going to ignore a government mandate anyway. As such, it is going to fall to businesses to deny service to people without masks.

There are some state and local governments that seem to be doing a good job. Andrew Cuomo in NY comes to mind.

I live in the US now, so, yeah, I've met a few Americans. Most of the people in our neighborhood are doing our best to social distance and wear masks whenever we enter businesses. It's not that hard.

In the US we've got some incredibly smart marketing people. Somehow, they manage to convince consumers to purchase a shitload of useless crap, most of which they don't need. It seems like if state and local governments where covid is running rampant, right now, were to hire smart marketing people to conduct a media blitz, they could persuade people to voluntarily start wearing masks. Of course, doing that is complicated by the fact that an election is coming up in a few months.

The example of Hong Kong that expatartist mentioned above was good, I thought. The HK government literally just outlawed the wearing of masks in public, shortly before covid started, but because people there are convinced that masks help keep them healthy, they are mostly all wearing them anyway, even though it's against the law! In the short term, it may not be possible in the US, because of the upcoming election and, also, because of the dipshit in the WH, but convincing the people to wear masks, because it's in their own best interest, seems to me to be the best way to get people to comply, not forcing them to do it.

It doesn't matter who is in the white house. People around here would be doing exactly what they are doing now if Obama was in the white house. We can blame Fox News, the Koch brothers, Americans' longstanding distrust of government, whatever, but a significant number of Americans are going to ignore any recommendations from the government.

It seems like there's a pretty strong and consistent correlation between high levels of trust in government and success at dealing with Covid-19. Because of a general strong distrust of government officials, Americans are completely failing as a country at our response to this pandemic.

[lost_in_the_endless_aisle]

There are some state and local governments that seem to be doing a good job. Andrew Cuomo in NY comes to mind.

Cuomo, really? NY politicians are sure good at benefiting from tragedy; think of the rise in prominence and popularity of Giuliani following 9/11 even though--as we all now realize--he is an unhinged nutjob.

[Kris]

So you wrote 3 long posts opposing mandating masks.
I think your thought on police involvement is over blown but that's another issue.
What is your solution to reducing the infection rates ?? Do nothing ?? I mean the "do nothing" and let people use their best judgement isn't working.
We wasted 3+ months of shutdowns and the new cases are back to what it was before the shutdown. We can't have another shutdown. We have an easy solution to slow down the virus so I'm still befuddled on why so much opposition.

Education. Use words to persuade people to voluntarily wear masks. In a country where our highest elected official refuses to wear a mask and has stated publicly, multiple times, that he thinks mask wearing should be a personal decision, it makes ZERO sense for the government to *mandate* that individuals do anything.

Have you met many people in America?

The information is widely available. People are not wearing masks out of spite at this point because they think it's a political statement. My local professional sports team posted on social media encouraging people to wear masks, and the number of people complaining because "muh freedom" was absurd.

These same people are going to ignore a government mandate anyway. As such, it is going to fall to businesses to deny service to people without masks.

There are some state and local governments that seem to be doing a good job. Andrew Cuomo in NY comes to mind.

I live in the US now, so, yeah, I've met a few Americans. Most of the people in our neighborhood are doing our best to social distance and wear masks whenever we enter businesses. It's not that hard.

In the US we've got some incredibly smart marketing people. Somehow, they manage to convince consumers to purchase a shitload of useless crap, most of which they don't need. It seems like if state and local governments where covid is running rampant, right now, were to hire smart marketing people to conduct a media blitz, they could persuade people to voluntarily start wearing masks. Of course, doing that is complicated by the fact that an election is coming up in a few months.

The example of Hong Kong that expatartist mentioned above was good, I thought. The HK government literally just outlawed the wearing of masks in public, shortly before covid started, but because people there are convinced that masks help keep them healthy, they are mostly all wearing them anyway, even though it's against the law! In the short term, it may not be possible in the US, because of the upcoming election and, also, because of the dipshit in the WH, but convincing the people to wear masks, because it's in their own best interest, seems to me to be the best way to get people to comply, not forcing them to do it.

It doesn't matter who is in the white house. People around here would be doing exactly what they are doing now if Obama was in the white house. We can blame Fox News, the Koch brothers, Americans' longstanding distrust of government, whatever, but a significant number of Americans are going to ignore any recommendations from the government.

A non-shitty Republican who had the sense to lead by example, wear a goddamn mask, and follow the advice of the medical community could have made a large difference.

[Shane]

So you wrote 3 long posts opposing mandating masks.
I think your thought on police involvement is over blown but that's another issue.
What is your solution to reducing the infection rates ?? Do nothing ?? I mean the "do nothing" and let people use their best judgement isn't working.
We wasted 3+ months of shutdowns and the new cases are back to what it was before the shutdown. We can't have another shutdown. We have an easy solution to slow down the virus so I'm still befuddled on why so much opposition.

Education. Use words to persuade people to voluntarily wear masks. In a country where our highest elected official refuses to wear a mask and has stated publicly, multiple times, that he thinks mask wearing should be a personal decision, it makes ZERO sense for the government to *mandate* that individuals do anything.

Have you met many people in America?

The information is widely available. People are not wearing masks out of spite at this point because they think it's a political statement. My local professional sports team posted on social media encouraging people to wear masks, and the number of people complaining because "muh freedom" was absurd.

These same people are going to ignore a government mandate anyway. As such, it is going to fall to businesses to deny service to people without masks.

There are some state and local governments that seem to be doing a good job. Andrew Cuomo in NY comes to mind.

I live in the US now, so, yeah, I've met a few Americans. Most of the people in our neighborhood are doing our best to social distance and wear masks whenever we enter businesses. It's not that hard.

In the US we've got some incredibly smart marketing people. Somehow, they manage to convince consumers to purchase a shitload of useless crap, most of which they don't need. It seems like if state and local governments where covid is running rampant, right now, were to hire smart marketing people to conduct a media blitz, they could persuade people to voluntarily start wearing masks. Of course, doing that is complicated by the fact that an election is coming up in a few months.

The example of Hong Kong that expatartist mentioned above was good, I thought. The HK government literally just outlawed the wearing of masks in public, shortly before covid started, but because people there are convinced that masks help keep them healthy, they are mostly all wearing them anyway, even though it's against the law! In the short term, it may not be possible in the US, because of the upcoming election and, also, because of the dipshit in the WH, but convincing the people to wear masks, because it's in their own best interest, seems to me to be the best way to get people to comply, not forcing them to do it.

It doesn't matter who is in the white house. People around here would be doing exactly what they are doing now if Obama was in the white house. We can blame Fox News, the Koch brothers, Americans' longstanding distrust of government, whatever, but a significant number of Americans are going to ignore any recommendations from the government.

A non-shitty Republican who had the sense to lead by example, wear a goddamn mask, and follow the advice of the medical community could have made a large difference.

Someone like John McCain comes to mind. Even though I disagreed with some of his positions, I would trust him to do the right thing and lead the country out of this mess. Trump isn't even really a Republican. He's just a shitty person.

[Shane]

There are some state and local governments that seem to be doing a good job. Andrew Cuomo in NY comes to mind.

Cuomo, really? NY politicians are sure good at benefiting from tragedy; think of the rise in prominence and popularity of Giuliani following 9/11 even though--as we all now realize--he is an unhinged nutjob.

Cuomo's not perfect, but it just seems like any reasonable leader, from either party, would be better than what we've got now.

[chemistk]

I work with some very smart people, and I would definitely say that my family (in-laws included) are reasonably intelligent. At work, we're all required to wear masks in all areas of the building except bathroom stalls and our own offices - the entire length of the day we're at work. Even at the manufacturing facilities it's always required regardless of the conditions and if a mask impairs breathing, you can wear a face shield.

My family all have to wear masks when shopping, in stores, at church, etc.

Every single one of them who supports our current president believes that the mask is, unequivocally, THE anti-MAGA symbol. My coworker refuses to wear one anywhere she isn't told to (mainly in our building where you can face a call from HR) out of fear that it will signal that she's no longer a Trump supporter.

My Mom, who lives in Michigan, has driven to Ohio to go grocery shopping, because stores don't require masks.

My Dad, who is a very intelligent engineer, does not believe that facemasks are for public protection (not personal).

My in-laws (my grandfather-in-law passed away from Covid) also subscribe to the anti-MAGA theme that masks seem to bring, and frequently worry that masks are impairing people's ability to breathe.

I love my family dearly and I am not going to cut them out of my life over this, but if anyone believes that education and recommendations are enough to help people understand that masks are necessary, I urge you to speak with educated, reasonable people who believe our president is the best thing for this country.

FWIW I originally voted 'no' to the poll. I have not changed my vote, although I firmly agree with the idea that masks are critical at this time, I don't think (in the US) the semantics of the "government" "mandating" masks is ever going to fly. Call me pedantic. What I have always believed is state and local requirements to wear masks within the authority of each governing body and a massive amount of social pressure would be far more effective than the abstract "government" requiring masks.

[Kris]

So you wrote 3 long posts opposing mandating masks.
I think your thought on police involvement is over blown but that's another issue.
What is your solution to reducing the infection rates ?? Do nothing ?? I mean the "do nothing" and let people use their best judgement isn't working.
We wasted 3+ months of shutdowns and the new cases are back to what it was before the shutdown. We can't have another shutdown. We have an easy solution to slow down the virus so I'm still befuddled on why so much opposition.

Education. Use words to persuade people to voluntarily wear masks. In a country where our highest elected official refuses to wear a mask and has stated publicly, multiple times, that he thinks mask wearing should be a personal decision, it makes ZERO sense for the government to *mandate* that individuals do anything.

Have you met many people in America?

The information is widely available. People are not wearing masks out of spite at this point because they think it's a political statement. My local professional sports team posted on social media encouraging people to wear masks, and the number of people complaining because "muh freedom" was absurd.

These same people are going to ignore a government mandate anyway. As such, it is going to fall to businesses to deny service to people without masks.

There are some state and local governments that seem to be doing a good job. Andrew Cuomo in NY comes to mind.

I live in the US now, so, yeah, I've met a few Americans. Most of the people in our neighborhood are doing our best to social distance and wear masks whenever we enter businesses. It's not that hard.

In the US we've got some incredibly smart marketing people. Somehow, they manage to convince consumers to purchase a shitload of useless crap, most of which they don't need. It seems like if state and local governments where covid is running rampant, right now, were to hire smart marketing people to conduct a media blitz, they could persuade people to voluntarily start wearing masks. Of course, doing that is complicated by the fact that an election is coming up in a few months.

The example of Hong Kong that expatartist mentioned above was good, I thought. The HK government literally just outlawed the wearing of masks in public, shortly before covid started, but because people there are convinced that masks help keep them healthy, they are mostly all wearing them anyway, even though it's against the law! In the short term, it may not be possible in the US, because of the upcoming election and, also, because of the dipshit in the WH, but convincing the people to wear masks, because it's in their own best interest, seems to me to be the best way to get people to comply, not forcing them to do it.

It doesn't matter who is in the white house. People around here would be doing exactly what they are doing now if Obama was in the white house. We can blame Fox News, the Koch brothers, Americans' longstanding distrust of government, whatever, but a significant number of Americans are going to ignore any recommendations from the government.

A non-shitty Republican who had the sense to lead by example, wear a goddamn mask, and follow the advice of the medical community could have made a large difference.

Someone like John McCain comes to mind. Even though I disagreed with some of his positions, I would trust him to do the right thing and lead the country out of this mess. Trump isn't even really a Republican. He's just a shitty person.

The truly pathetic thing is, thanks to decades of right-wing disinformation campaigns, it would probably have to be a Republican. I agree with Dadjokes to the extent that if Obama was in the White House, conservatives would refuse to believe a word he said and latch on to the same crazy conspiracies that Trump himself is promoting.

If a non-shitty Republican was in the WH, leading by example, a lot of those conservatives might be actually wearing masks and listening to the science right now. As would the people on the left.

I wish the conservative influencers who have helped to create this situation would do some soul-searching, but I’m not so sure they have souls anymore.

[GuitarStv]

So you wrote 3 long posts opposing mandating masks.
I think your thought on police involvement is over blown but that's another issue.
What is your solution to reducing the infection rates ?? Do nothing ?? I mean the "do nothing" and let people use their best judgement isn't working.
We wasted 3+ months of shutdowns and the new cases are back to what it was before the shutdown. We can't have another shutdown. We have an easy solution to slow down the virus so I'm still befuddled on why so much opposition.

Education. Use words to persuade people to voluntarily wear masks. In a country where our highest elected official refuses to wear a mask and has stated publicly, multiple times, that he thinks mask wearing should be a personal decision, it makes ZERO sense for the government to *mandate* that individuals do anything.

Have you met many people in America?

The information is widely available. People are not wearing masks out of spite at this point because they think it's a political statement. My local professional sports team posted on social media encouraging people to wear masks, and the number of people complaining because "muh freedom" was absurd.

These same people are going to ignore a government mandate anyway. As such, it is going to fall to businesses to deny service to people without masks.

There are some state and local governments that seem to be doing a good job. Andrew Cuomo in NY comes to mind.

I live in the US now, so, yeah, I've met a few Americans. Most of the people in our neighborhood are doing our best to social distance and wear masks whenever we enter businesses. It's not that hard.

In the US we've got some incredibly smart marketing people. Somehow, they manage to convince consumers to purchase a shitload of useless crap, most of which they don't need. It seems like if state and local governments where covid is running rampant, right now, were to hire smart marketing people to conduct a media blitz, they could persuade people to voluntarily start wearing masks. Of course, doing that is complicated by the fact that an election is coming up in a few months.

The example of Hong Kong that expatartist mentioned above was good, I thought. The HK government literally just outlawed the wearing of masks in public, shortly before covid started, but because people there are convinced that masks help keep them healthy, they are mostly all wearing them anyway, even though it's against the law! In the short term, it may not be possible in the US, because of the upcoming election and, also, because of the dipshit in the WH, but convincing the people to wear masks, because it's in their own best interest, seems to me to be the best way to get people to comply, not forcing them to do it.

It doesn't matter who is in the white house. People around here would be doing exactly what they are doing now if Obama was in the white house. We can blame Fox News, the Koch brothers, Americans' longstanding distrust of government, whatever, but a significant number of Americans are going to ignore any recommendations from the government.

A non-shitty Republican who had the sense to lead by example, wear a goddamn mask, and follow the advice of the medical community could have made a large difference.

Someone like John McCain comes to mind. Even though I disagreed with some of his positions, I would trust him to do the right thing and lead the country out of this mess. Trump isn't even really a Republican. He's just a shitty person.

The truly pathetic thing is, thanks to decades of right-wing disinformation campaigns, it would probably have to be a Republican. I agree with Dadjokes to the extent that if Obama was in the White House, conservatives would refuse to believe a word he said and latch on to the same crazy conspiracies that Trump himself is promoting.

If a non-shitty Republican was in the WH, leading by example, a lot of those conservatives might be actually wearing masks and listening to the science right now. As would the people on the left.

I wish the conservative influencers who have helped to create this situation would do some soul-searching, but I’m not so sure they have souls anymore.

I wish people would quit pretending that Trump isn't a Republican.  Right now he's polling at around 85% approval among Republicans . . . one of his lowest recorded showings since becoming president.  If he's not Republican, he certainly appears to be doing all the stuff that Republicans want in a leader.

[Kris]

So you wrote 3 long posts opposing mandating masks.
I think your thought on police involvement is over blown but that's another issue.
What is your solution to reducing the infection rates ?? Do nothing ?? I mean the "do nothing" and let people use their best judgement isn't working.
We wasted 3+ months of shutdowns and the new cases are back to what it was before the shutdown. We can't have another shutdown. We have an easy solution to slow down the virus so I'm still befuddled on why so much opposition.

Education. Use words to persuade people to voluntarily wear masks. In a country where our highest elected official refuses to wear a mask and has stated publicly, multiple times, that he thinks mask wearing should be a personal decision, it makes ZERO sense for the government to *mandate* that individuals do anything.

Have you met many people in America?

The information is widely available. People are not wearing masks out of spite at this point because they think it's a political statement. My local professional sports team posted on social media encouraging people to wear masks, and the number of people complaining because "muh freedom" was absurd.

These same people are going to ignore a government mandate anyway. As such, it is going to fall to businesses to deny service to people without masks.

There are some state and local governments that seem to be doing a good job. Andrew Cuomo in NY comes to mind.

I live in the US now, so, yeah, I've met a few Americans. Most of the people in our neighborhood are doing our best to social distance and wear masks whenever we enter businesses. It's not that hard.

In the US we've got some incredibly smart marketing people. Somehow, they manage to convince consumers to purchase a shitload of useless crap, most of which they don't need. It seems like if state and local governments where covid is running rampant, right now, were to hire smart marketing people to conduct a media blitz, they could persuade people to voluntarily start wearing masks. Of course, doing that is complicated by the fact that an election is coming up in a few months.

The example of Hong Kong that expatartist mentioned above was good, I thought. The HK government literally just outlawed the wearing of masks in public, shortly before covid started, but because people there are convinced that masks help keep them healthy, they are mostly all wearing them anyway, even though it's against the law! In the short term, it may not be possible in the US, because of the upcoming election and, also, because of the dipshit in the WH, but convincing the people to wear masks, because it's in their own best interest, seems to me to be the best way to get people to comply, not forcing them to do it.

It doesn't matter who is in the white house. People around here would be doing exactly what they are doing now if Obama was in the white house. We can blame Fox News, the Koch brothers, Americans' longstanding distrust of government, whatever, but a significant number of Americans are going to ignore any recommendations from the government.

A non-shitty Republican who had the sense to lead by example, wear a goddamn mask, and follow the advice of the medical community could have made a large difference.

Someone like John McCain comes to mind. Even though I disagreed with some of his positions, I would trust him to do the right thing and lead the country out of this mess. Trump isn't even really a Republican. He's just a shitty person.

The truly pathetic thing is, thanks to decades of right-wing disinformation campaigns, it would probably have to be a Republican. I agree with Dadjokes to the extent that if Obama was in the White House, conservatives would refuse to believe a word he said and latch on to the same crazy conspiracies that Trump himself is promoting.

If a non-shitty Republican was in the WH, leading by example, a lot of those conservatives might be actually wearing masks and listening to the science right now. As would the people on the left.

I wish the conservative influencers who have helped to create this situation would do some soul-searching, but I’m not so sure they have souls anymore.

I wish people would quit pretending that Trump isn't a Republican.  Right now he's polling at around 85% approval among Republicans . . . one of his lowest recorded showings since becoming president.  If he's not Republican, he certainly appears to be doing all the stuff that Republicans want in a leader.

Are you referring to me? Because I in no way am pretending Trump isn’t a Republican.

[OtherJen]

So you wrote 3 long posts opposing mandating masks.
I think your thought on police involvement is over blown but that's another issue.
What is your solution to reducing the infection rates ?? Do nothing ?? I mean the "do nothing" and let people use their best judgement isn't working.
We wasted 3+ months of shutdowns and the new cases are back to what it was before the shutdown. We can't have another shutdown. We have an easy solution to slow down the virus so I'm still befuddled on why so much opposition.

Education. Use words to persuade people to voluntarily wear masks. In a country where our highest elected official refuses to wear a mask and has stated publicly, multiple times, that he thinks mask wearing should be a personal decision, it makes ZERO sense for the government to *mandate* that individuals do anything.

Have you met many people in America?

The information is widely available. People are not wearing masks out of spite at this point because they think it's a political statement. My local professional sports team posted on social media encouraging people to wear masks, and the number of people complaining because "muh freedom" was absurd.

These same people are going to ignore a government mandate anyway. As such, it is going to fall to businesses to deny service to people without masks.

There are some state and local governments that seem to be doing a good job. Andrew Cuomo in NY comes to mind.

I live in the US now, so, yeah, I've met a few Americans. Most of the people in our neighborhood are doing our best to social distance and wear masks whenever we enter businesses. It's not that hard.

In the US we've got some incredibly smart marketing people. Somehow, they manage to convince consumers to purchase a shitload of useless crap, most of which they don't need. It seems like if state and local governments where covid is running rampant, right now, were to hire smart marketing people to conduct a media blitz, they could persuade people to voluntarily start wearing masks. Of course, doing that is complicated by the fact that an election is coming up in a few months.

The example of Hong Kong that expatartist mentioned above was good, I thought. The HK government literally just outlawed the wearing of masks in public, shortly before covid started, but because people there are convinced that masks help keep them healthy, they are mostly all wearing them anyway, even though it's against the law! In the short term, it may not be possible in the US, because of the upcoming election and, also, because of the dipshit in the WH, but convincing the people to wear masks, because it's in their own best interest, seems to me to be the best way to get people to comply, not forcing them to do it.

It doesn't matter who is in the white house. People around here would be doing exactly what they are doing now if Obama was in the white house. We can blame Fox News, the Koch brothers, Americans' longstanding distrust of government, whatever, but a significant number of Americans are going to ignore any recommendations from the government.

A non-shitty Republican who had the sense to lead by example, wear a goddamn mask, and follow the advice of the medical community could have made a large difference.

Someone like John McCain comes to mind. Even though I disagreed with some of his positions, I would trust him to do the right thing and lead the country out of this mess. Trump isn't even really a Republican. He's just a shitty person.

He seems to be the epitome of the Republican Party, given the direction in which it’s been heading for the last 50 years. His fellow party members have rarely seemed anything less than thrilled with his performance, and the GOP voter base seems pretty damned enthusiastic.

[GuitarStv]

Sorry, it was Shane above who said "Trump isn't even really a Republican".

[Shane]

While it's true that Republicans have, by and large, embraced Trump, it certainly wasn't that way back in 2016. I can still remember the look of utter astonishment on Paul Ryan's face when the announcement came over the TV that Trump had won. Many mainstream Republicans tried hard to distance themselves from Trump, all the way up until he actually pulled it off and won. I just think Trump is an opportunistic Republican, as opposed to a real dyed in the wool Republican who would be willing to sacrifice anything for the greater good of the party. Trump doesn't give a shit about the Republican Party, at least not in the way someone like John McCain was dedicated to the Republican Party, or the way Joe Biden is to the Democratic Party. If Trump thought he could more easily get what he wanted by becoming a Democrat or Independent or Libertarian or Green or whatever, he would walk away from the Republican Party tomorrow. Trump doesn't give a shit about anything or anybody, besides himself.

[GuitarStv]

While it's true that Republicans have, by and large, embraced Trump, it certainly wasn't that way back in 2016. I can still remember the look of utter astonishment on Paul Ryan's face when the announcement came over the TV that Trump had won. Many mainstream Republicans tried hard to distance themselves from Trump, all the way up until he actually pulled it off and won. I just think Trump is an opportunistic Republican, as opposed to a real dyed in the wool Republican who would be willing to sacrifice anything for the greater good of the party. Trump doesn't give a shit about the Republican Party, at least not in the way someone like John McCain was dedicated to the Republican Party, or the way Joe Biden is to the Democratic Party. If Trump thought he could more easily get what he wanted by becoming a Democrat or Independent or Libertarian or Green or whatever, he would walk away from the Republican Party tomorrow. Trump doesn't give a shit about anything or anybody, besides himself.

I agree with everything you wrote, but (whether or not he gives a shit) it still doesn't change the fact that Trump is the current embodiment of the Republican party.  He has full support of the party at every level and full support of Republican voters.  He can tell 'em to inject bleach to cure disease and nary even a waver.

The democratic party used to be the party of racism in the US.  Things change.

[Jack0Life]

So you wrote 3 long posts opposing mandating masks.
I think your thought on police involvement is over blown but that's another issue.
What is your solution to reducing the infection rates ?? Do nothing ?? I mean the "do nothing" and let people use their best judgement isn't working.
We wasted 3+ months of shutdowns and the new cases are back to what it was before the shutdown. We can't have another shutdown. We have an easy solution to slow down the virus so I'm still befuddled on why so much opposition.

Education. Use words to persuade people to voluntarily wear masks. In a country where our highest elected official refuses to wear a mask and has stated publicly, multiple times, that he thinks mask wearing should be a personal decision, it makes ZERO sense for the government to *mandate* that individuals do anything.

Not at you but that is the most laughable solution.
Have you seen the amount of ignorant people here in the US.
How long was the education that smoking is bad for you ?? Did that stop people from smoking. What about wearing seatbelts ?? How long did those take to get compliance ?? NEVER. Not until it became laws. And we're not talking about making laws for masks. Just start enforcing businesses to comply with the rules would be a great start.

[Jack0Life]

So you wrote 3 long posts opposing mandating masks.
I think your thought on police involvement is over blown but that's another issue.
What is your solution to reducing the infection rates ?? Do nothing ?? I mean the "do nothing" and let people use their best judgement isn't working.
We wasted 3+ months of shutdowns and the new cases are back to what it was before the shutdown. We can't have another shutdown. We have an easy solution to slow down the virus so I'm still befuddled on why so much opposition.

Education. Use words to persuade people to voluntarily wear masks. In a country where our highest elected official refuses to wear a mask and has stated publicly, multiple times, that he thinks mask wearing should be a personal decision, it makes ZERO sense for the government to *mandate* that individuals do anything.

You don't think the educational campaign will be somewhat undercut by the disinformation campaign that the president has been running since the start of the pandemic?

Yeah, for sure any education/marketing campaign is going to be undercut by the dumbass in the White House. Andrew Cuomo seems to be doing a good job in NY. I wish he were our president. Cuomo doesn't just order people to follow mandates. He leads by talking, sometimes pleading, with the people of NY to follow public health recommendations, and he explains the reasons why people should voluntarily do what he is recommending.

You praised Cuomo for doing a good and he did mandate masks on April 15th just when he knew the epidemic in NY would get out of hand. If only our President had the common sense.

[Jack0Life]

I work with some very smart people, and I would definitely say that my family (in-laws included) are reasonably intelligent. At work, we're all required to wear masks in all areas of the building except bathroom stalls and our own offices - the entire length of the day we're at work. Even at the manufacturing facilities it's always required regardless of the conditions and if a mask impairs breathing, you can wear a face shield.

My family all have to wear masks when shopping, in stores, at church, etc.

Every single one of them who supports our current president believes that the mask is, unequivocally, THE anti-MAGA symbol. My coworker refuses to wear one anywhere she isn't told to (mainly in our building where you can face a call from HR) out of fear that it will signal that she's no longer a Trump supporter.

My Mom, who lives in Michigan, has driven to Ohio to go grocery shopping, because stores don't require masks.

My Dad, who is a very intelligent engineer, does not believe that facemasks are for public protection (not personal).

My in-laws (my grandfather-in-law passed away from Covid) also subscribe to the anti-MAGA theme that masks seem to bring, and frequently worry that masks are impairing people's ability to breathe.

I love my family dearly and I am not going to cut them out of my life over this, but if anyone believes that education and recommendations are enough to help people understand that masks are necessary, I urge you to speak with educated, reasonable people who believe our president is the best thing for this country.

FWIW I originally voted 'no' to the poll. I have not changed my vote, although I firmly agree with the idea that masks are critical at this time, I don't think (in the US) the semantics of the "government" "mandating" masks is ever going to fly. Call me pedantic. What I have always believed is state and local requirements to wear masks within the authority of each governing body and a massive amount of social pressure would be far more effective than the abstract "government" requiring masks.

Aren't we talking about the same thing ?? Government can be at any level. Federal, state, county, whatever.

[mm1970]

I work with some very smart people, and I would definitely say that my family (in-laws included) are reasonably intelligent. At work, we're all required to wear masks in all areas of the building except bathroom stalls and our own offices - the entire length of the day we're at work. Even at the manufacturing facilities it's always required regardless of the conditions and if a mask impairs breathing, you can wear a face shield.

My family all have to wear masks when shopping, in stores, at church, etc.

Every single one of them who supports our current president believes that the mask is, unequivocally, THE anti-MAGA symbol. My coworker refuses to wear one anywhere she isn't told to (mainly in our building where you can face a call from HR) out of fear that it will signal that she's no longer a Trump supporter.

My Mom, who lives in Michigan, has driven to Ohio to go grocery shopping, because stores don't require masks.

My Dad, who is a very intelligent engineer, does not believe that facemasks are for public protection (not personal).

My in-laws (my grandfather-in-law passed away from Covid) also subscribe to the anti-MAGA theme that masks seem to bring, and frequently worry that masks are impairing people's ability to breathe.

I love my family dearly and I am not going to cut them out of my life over this, but if anyone believes that education and recommendations are enough to help people understand that masks are necessary, I urge you to speak with educated, reasonable people who believe our president is the best thing for this country.

FWIW I originally voted 'no' to the poll. I have not changed my vote, although I firmly agree with the idea that masks are critical at this time, I don't think (in the US) the semantics of the "government" "mandating" masks is ever going to fly. Call me pedantic. What I have always believed is state and local requirements to wear masks within the authority of each governing body and a massive amount of social pressure would be far more effective than the abstract "government" requiring masks.

Aren't we talking about the same thing ?? Government can be at any level. Federal, state, county, whatever.

Even intelligent people can have blind spots.
Like not reading the science if it doesn't fit their narrative.

[chemistk]

I work with some very smart people, and I would definitely say that my family (in-laws included) are reasonably intelligent. At work, we're all required to wear masks in all areas of the building except bathroom stalls and our own offices - the entire length of the day we're at work. Even at the manufacturing facilities it's always required regardless of the conditions and if a mask impairs breathing, you can wear a face shield.

My family all have to wear masks when shopping, in stores, at church, etc.

Every single one of them who supports our current president believes that the mask is, unequivocally, THE anti-MAGA symbol. My coworker refuses to wear one anywhere she isn't told to (mainly in our building where you can face a call from HR) out of fear that it will signal that she's no longer a Trump supporter.

My Mom, who lives in Michigan, has driven to Ohio to go grocery shopping, because stores don't require masks.

My Dad, who is a very intelligent engineer, does not believe that facemasks are for public protection (not personal).

My in-laws (my grandfather-in-law passed away from Covid) also subscribe to the anti-MAGA theme that masks seem to bring, and frequently worry that masks are impairing people's ability to breathe.

I love my family dearly and I am not going to cut them out of my life over this, but if anyone believes that education and recommendations are enough to help people understand that masks are necessary, I urge you to speak with educated, reasonable people who believe our president is the best thing for this country.

FWIW I originally voted 'no' to the poll. I have not changed my vote, although I firmly agree with the idea that masks are critical at this time, I don't think (in the US) the semantics of the "government" "mandating" masks is ever going to fly. Call me pedantic. What I have always believed is state and local requirements to wear masks within the authority of each governing body and a massive amount of social pressure would be far more effective than the abstract "government" requiring masks.

Aren't we talking about the same thing ?? Government can be at any level. Federal, state, county, whatever.

True. I think when I initially voted, I was looking at it from strictly the national level. The problem with enactment at the federal level will always be the unequal enforcement but piecemeal enactment isn't so great either. Perhaps I'll change my initial vote.

[chemistk]

I work with some very smart people, and I would definitely say that my family (in-laws included) are reasonably intelligent. At work, we're all required to wear masks in all areas of the building except bathroom stalls and our own offices - the entire length of the day we're at work. Even at the manufacturing facilities it's always required regardless of the conditions and if a mask impairs breathing, you can wear a face shield.

My family all have to wear masks when shopping, in stores, at church, etc.

Every single one of them who supports our current president believes that the mask is, unequivocally, THE anti-MAGA symbol. My coworker refuses to wear one anywhere she isn't told to (mainly in our building where you can face a call from HR) out of fear that it will signal that she's no longer a Trump supporter.

My Mom, who lives in Michigan, has driven to Ohio to go grocery shopping, because stores don't require masks.

My Dad, who is a very intelligent engineer, does not believe that facemasks are for public protection (not personal).

My in-laws (my grandfather-in-law passed away from Covid) also subscribe to the anti-MAGA theme that masks seem to bring, and frequently worry that masks are impairing people's ability to breathe.

I love my family dearly and I am not going to cut them out of my life over this, but if anyone believes that education and recommendations are enough to help people understand that masks are necessary, I urge you to speak with educated, reasonable people who believe our president is the best thing for this country.

FWIW I originally voted 'no' to the poll. I have not changed my vote, although I firmly agree with the idea that masks are critical at this time, I don't think (in the US) the semantics of the "government" "mandating" masks is ever going to fly. Call me pedantic. What I have always believed is state and local requirements to wear masks within the authority of each governing body and a massive amount of social pressure would be far more effective than the abstract "government" requiring masks.

Aren't we talking about the same thing ?? Government can be at any level. Federal, state, county, whatever.

Even intelligent people can have blind spots.
Like not reading the science if it doesn't fit their narrative.

I think my dad is the one that gets me the most. He and his coworkers all keep citing 'studies' and 'reports' (aka rhetoric) that masks don't work because they don't protect the wearer from others.

His whole group entirely missed the point that personal protection is not the reason masks are even a thing.

[Shane]

You praised Cuomo for doing a good and he did mandate masks on April 15th just when he knew the epidemic in NY would get out of hand. If only our President had the common sense.

Cuomo "mandated" masks, but, afaik, he never did anything to enforce it, so it was basically a recommendation. Mayor de Blasio tasked NYPD with enforcing social distancing. Cops punched brown and black people in the face, beat them down with their fists, sat on top of them, handcuffed them, threw them into their patrol cars, and hauled them off to jail. That's what I'm against. Strongly recommending that everyone wear masks is what government officials should be doing. Sending guys with guns in to beat the shit out of poor brown and black people who don't perfectly follow social distancing recommendations is what I'm against.

[GuitarStv]

Toronto just passed a bylaw requiring all people in buildings to wear masks until September.  Whooo!

[Jack0Life]

You praised Cuomo for doing a good and he did mandate masks on April 15th just when he knew the epidemic in NY would get out of hand. If only our President had the common sense.

Cuomo "mandated" masks, but, afaik, he never did anything to enforce it, so it was basically a recommendation. Mayor de Blasio tasked NYPD with enforcing social distancing. Cops punched brown and black people in the face, beat them down with their fists, sat on top of them, handcuffed them, threw them into their patrol cars, and hauled them off to jail. That's what I'm against. Strongly recommending that everyone wear masks is what government officials should be doing. Sending guys with guns in to beat the shit out of poor brown and black people who don't perfectly follow social distancing recommendations is what I'm against.

You're really going out on a limb here.
This entire thread is asking for the "government" to mandate  masks. We're not asking them to make it a law.
A bunch of counties here in Florida also "mandated" masks without really any type of enforcement but apparently it worked because instead of seeing 50-60% wearing masks we're seeing 90% now.
This entire thread, all I've been asking our leaders to do something, even if its baby steps instead of doing NOTHING. Just a "mandate" alone without punishment still get awareness out there.

[Shane]

You praised Cuomo for doing a good and he did mandate masks on April 15th just when he knew the epidemic in NY would get out of hand. If only our President had the common sense.

Cuomo "mandated" masks, but, afaik, he never did anything to enforce it, so it was basically a recommendation. Mayor de Blasio tasked NYPD with enforcing social distancing. Cops punched brown and black people in the face, beat them down with their fists, sat on top of them, handcuffed them, threw them into their patrol cars, and hauled them off to jail. That's what I'm against. Strongly recommending that everyone wear masks is what government officials should be doing. Sending guys with guns in to beat the shit out of poor brown and black people who don't perfectly follow social distancing recommendations is what I'm against.

You're really going out on a limb here.
This entire thread is asking for the "government" to mandate  masks. We're not asking them to make it a law.
A bunch of counties here in Florida also "mandated" masks without really any type of enforcement but apparently it worked because instead of seeing 50-60% wearing masks we're seeing 90% now.
This entire thread, all I've been asking our leaders to do something, even if its baby steps instead of doing NOTHING. Just a "mandate" alone without punishment still get awareness out there.

Sounds like we're in agreement, then. I initially voted "no" on the poll, because in my mind a mandate must be physically enforced. If a mandate is really only a different word for recommendation, and if using the word mandate somehow tricks more people into complying, I'm all for that. :)

[teen persuasion]

You praised Cuomo for doing a good and he did mandate masks on April 15th just when he knew the epidemic in NY would get out of hand. If only our President had the common sense.

Cuomo "mandated" masks, but, afaik, he never did anything to enforce it, so it was basically a recommendation. Mayor de Blasio tasked NYPD with enforcing social distancing. Cops punched brown and black people in the face, beat them down with their fists, sat on top of them, handcuffed them, threw them into their patrol cars, and hauled them off to jail. That's what I'm against. Strongly recommending that everyone wear masks is what government officials should be doing. Sending guys with guns in to beat the shit out of poor brown and black people who don't perfectly follow social distancing recommendations is what I'm against.

You're really going out on a limb here.
This entire thread is asking for the "government" to mandate  masks. We're not asking them to make it a law.
A bunch of counties here in Florida also "mandated" masks without really any type of enforcement but apparently it worked because instead of seeing 50-60% wearing masks we're seeing 90% now.
This entire thread, all I've been asking our leaders to do something, even if its baby steps instead of doing NOTHING. Just a "mandate" alone without punishment still get awareness out there.

Sounds like we're in agreement, then. I initially voted "no" on the poll, because in my mind a mandate must be physically enforced. If a mandate is really only a different word for recommendation, and if using the word mandate somehow tricks more people into complying, I'm all for that. :)

Just having that "official" mandate is very helpful - it allows businesses to create a mandatory mask policy (for employees, and patrons/customers).  It also short circuits complaints of discrimination/rights violations.  Everyone is supposed to wear a mask, period.  Which also gives cover to those individuals who might prefer to wear a mask (for prevention) but feel social pressure to not wear a mask (when the mask-averse actively bully mask wearers) - "hey, I'm just following the rules".

[Jack0Life]

You praised Cuomo for doing a good and he did mandate masks on April 15th just when he knew the epidemic in NY would get out of hand. If only our President had the common sense.

Cuomo "mandated" masks, but, afaik, he never did anything to enforce it, so it was basically a recommendation. Mayor de Blasio tasked NYPD with enforcing social distancing. Cops punched brown and black people in the face, beat them down with their fists, sat on top of them, handcuffed them, threw them into their patrol cars, and hauled them off to jail. That's what I'm against. Strongly recommending that everyone wear masks is what government officials should be doing. Sending guys with guns in to beat the shit out of poor brown and black people who don't perfectly follow social distancing recommendations is what I'm against.

You're really going out on a limb here.
This entire thread is asking for the "government" to mandate  masks. We're not asking them to make it a law.
A bunch of counties here in Florida also "mandated" masks without really any type of enforcement but apparently it worked because instead of seeing 50-60% wearing masks we're seeing 90% now.
This entire thread, all I've been asking our leaders to do something, even if its baby steps instead of doing NOTHING. Just a "mandate" alone without punishment still get awareness out there.

Sounds like we're in agreement, then. I initially voted "no" on the poll, because in my mind a mandate must be physically enforced. If a mandate is really only a different word for recommendation, and if using the word mandate somehow tricks more people into complying, I'm all for that. :)

Just having that "official" mandate is very helpful - it allows businesses to create a mandatory mask policy (for employees, and patrons/customers).  It also short circuits complaints of discrimination/rights violations.  Everyone is supposed to wear a mask, period.  Which also gives cover to those individuals who might prefer to wear a mask (for prevention) but feel social pressure to not wear a mask (when the mask-averse actively bully mask wearers) - "hey, I'm just following the rules".

+1. I was going to add that into my above comments.
An official "mandate" gives the business a policy to fall on.

[Shane]

This just happened in PA:

"HARRISBURG, Pa. — Secretary of Health Dr. Rachel Levine has signed a new order making wearing face masks mandatory for anyone who leaves their home. The order takes effect immediately.

“This mask-wearing order is essential to stopping the recent increase in COVID-19 cases we have seen in Pennsylvania,” Gov. Wolf said. “Those hot spots can be traced to situations where Pennsylvanians were not wearing masks or practicing social distancing – two practices that must be adhered to if we want to maintain the freedoms we have in place under our reopening.”

[chemistk]

This just happened in PA:

"HARRISBURG, Pa. — Secretary of Health Dr. Rachel Levine has signed a new order making wearing face masks mandatory for anyone who leaves their home. The order takes effect immediately.

“This mask-wearing order is essential to stopping the recent increase in COVID-19 cases we have seen in Pennsylvania,” Gov. Wolf said. “Those hot spots can be traced to situations where Pennsylvanians were not wearing masks or practicing social distancing – two practices that must be adhered to if we want to maintain the freedoms we have in place under our reopening.”

I'll note here that per the order (I live in PA), this only applies to outdoor situations where social distancing is not feasible. Walking, biking, running, etc. are not included under the umbrella of compulsory masks. This was most likely directed at amusement parks, outdoor bars, crowded beaches, spectating at events (lol), etc.

It also does not pertain to those who have conditions (mental and physical, so plenty of ppl will cite 'conditions' as loopholes) that would cause them difficulty if they were to wear masks for a prolonged period.

Not saying I disagree with this. I very much agree and the collective groan across the area and from the naysayers in my life was almost audible.

Just pointing this out in case anyone comes in here "but but but what about...."

[chemistk]

Also:

"A follow-up inquiry about how the new order would be enforced indicated as much.

“We are relying on the good sense and cooperative spirit of Pennsylvanians to follow the Sec. of Health’s mask-wearing requirement order, and at this time law enforcement will not be charged with enforcing this latest order with citations for noncompliance,” the Health Department spokesperson, Nate Wardle, wrote in an email to PennLive"

[Shane]

Also:

"A follow-up inquiry about how the new order would be enforced indicated as much.

“We are relying on the good sense and cooperative spirit of Pennsylvanians to follow the Sec. of Health’s mask-wearing requirement order, and at this time law enforcement will not be charged with enforcing this latest order with citations for noncompliance,” the Health Department spokesperson, Nate Wardle, wrote in an email to PennLive"

Thanks for the added details @chemistk . Your post motivated me to go back and look more closely at Secretary Levine's actual order, which does state the exceptions you mentioned above.

For months, a neighbor has been encouraging everyone to "refuse to wear a mask!" He recommends we say, "I'm medical," when entering a business without a mask, and claims, "they can't refuse to let you in, otherwise you can sue them under the ADA." My neighbor has no actual medical condition that I'm aware of. He's just exploiting the medical exception loophole. I think the government should indemnify businesses against ADA lawsuits. If a person really can't wear a mask, the government should provide them with some kind of accommodations. There are lots of unemployed people, right now. It wouldn't be that hard to find out of work high school or college students who would be willing to go shopping for people who were unable to do so themselves due to a medical condition.

A friend who works at a medical cannabis dispensary recently told me she has to endure daily verbal abuse from "patients" insisting on "their right" to enter her workplace without a mask. Apparently, her employer is doing the right thing to protect vulnerable patients and staff by requiring that everyone mask up before entering. IMO, businesses should NOT allow anyone not wearing a mask to enter enclosed spaces, even if they claim to have some mysterious medical condition that precludes their wearing a mask. In the case of cannabis, apparently, people want to have it badly enough that they're willing to put on a mask or else not go inside.

Other small businesses, however, aren't so lucky. If a grocery store, for example, required that people claiming to have medical conditions wear a mask to enter, people would just go to another store and, then, post all over social media about how bad the store requiring masks was. Civil penalties against businesses refusing to enforce social distancing seem better than criminal penalties against individuals, but are still problematic, IMHO. Businesses are hurting, right now, and it's pretty unrealistic to expect that they be the social distancing enforcers. Ideally, individuals would be reasonable and just do the right thing voluntarily. Unfortunately, that's not the world we live in, at least not right now, with an election coming up in just a few months.

[totoro]

If you can't wear a mask a face shield is a reusable not too expensive alternative that works for those with breathing difficulties and actually provides you with more protection.  https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Face-Shield-with-Sponge-Face-Protector-Guard-Safety-Full-Face-Protection-Shield-for-Daily-Travel/PRD3W5ATKVP0J9H

[wenchsenior]

This happened.  https://news.yahoo.com/texas-governor-issues-mandatory-mask-213958512.html


Only 2 months late, but better late than never.  Now the question is...will the morons in my city abide by it? B/c they sure haven't been wearing masks to any great extent so far, even as we see cases spiking the past two weeks.

[js82]

Interesting article on how mandates/government directives don't always work how we want them to.

https://www.psypost.org/2020/06/conspiracy-mentality-linked-to-non-compliance-with-official-but-not-unofficial-coronavirus-prevention-measures-57186

Needless to say, getting people to wear masks is tricky here in 'Murica.

[Jack0Life]

This happened.  https://news.yahoo.com/texas-governor-issues-mandatory-mask-213958512.html


Only 2 months late, but better late than never.  Now the question is...will the morons in my city abide by it? B/c they sure haven't been wearing masks to any great extent so far, even as we see cases spiking the past two weeks.

That is somewhat of a miracle by a Rep. Governor. Now if only our not-so-bright Governor in Florida would follow suit.
I'm still seeing way too many people not wearing masks inside stores where it is "mandatory" in our county. Especially big stores like Lowe's not enforcing this rule when people walk into the store.
Still way way better than what it was before the mandatory. Still want to see businesses enforcing this inside the stores at least.
Florida just surpass the 10,000 per day mark. That's just freakin crazy. Comparatively Texas issued the mandatory when they reached over 5,000 per day. I wish we could fire our Governor right now.

[mm1970]

This happened.  https://news.yahoo.com/texas-governor-issues-mandatory-mask-213958512.html


Only 2 months late, but better late than never.  Now the question is...will the morons in my city abide by it? B/c they sure haven't been wearing masks to any great extent so far, even as we see cases spiking the past two weeks.

This makes me giggle because my biggest anti-vaxxer MUH FREEDOM masks are stupid and I'M NOT WORRIED BECAUSE I'M HEALTHY AND MY KIDS ARE HEALTHY local mom-friend is SO HAPPY TO BE MOVING TO TEXAS THIS WEEK FROM CALIFORNIA BECAUSE: no masks.  Ha.

[Tyler durden]

No

My body my choice.

;)

[Buffaloski Boris]

So you wrote 3 long posts opposing mandating masks.
I think your thought on police involvement is over blown but that's another issue.
What is your solution to reducing the infection rates ?? Do nothing ?? I mean the "do nothing" and let people use their best judgement isn't working.
We wasted 3+ months of shutdowns and the new cases are back to what it was before the shutdown. We can't have another shutdown. We have an easy solution to slow down the virus so I'm still befuddled on why so much opposition.

Education. Use words to persuade people to voluntarily wear masks. In a country where our highest elected official refuses to wear a mask and has stated publicly, multiple times, that he thinks mask wearing should be a personal decision, it makes ZERO sense for the government to *mandate* that individuals do anything.

Have you met many people in America?

The information is widely available. People are not wearing masks out of spite at this point because they think it's a political statement. My local professional sports team posted on social media encouraging people to wear masks, and the number of people complaining because "muh freedom" was absurd.

These same people are going to ignore a government mandate anyway. As such, it is going to fall to businesses to deny service to people without masks.

There are some state and local governments that seem to be doing a good job. Andrew Cuomo in NY comes to mind.

I live in the US now, so, yeah, I've met a few Americans. Most of the people in our neighborhood are doing our best to social distance and wear masks whenever we enter businesses. It's not that hard.

In the US we've got some incredibly smart marketing people. Somehow, they manage to convince consumers to purchase a shitload of useless crap, most of which they don't need. It seems like if state and local governments where covid is running rampant, right now, were to hire smart marketing people to conduct a media blitz, they could persuade people to voluntarily start wearing masks. Of course, doing that is complicated by the fact that an election is coming up in a few months.

The example of Hong Kong that expatartist mentioned above was good, I thought. The HK government literally just outlawed the wearing of masks in public, shortly before covid started, but because people there are convinced that masks help keep them healthy, they are mostly all wearing them anyway, even though it's against the law! In the short term, it may not be possible in the US, because of the upcoming election and, also, because of the dipshit in the WH, but convincing the people to wear masks, because it's in their own best interest, seems to me to be the best way to get people to comply, not forcing them to do it.

It doesn't matter who is in the white house. People around here would be doing exactly what they are doing now if Obama was in the white house. We can blame Fox News, the Koch brothers, Americans' longstanding distrust of government, whatever, but a significant number of Americans are going to ignore any recommendations from the government.

A non-shitty Republican who had the sense to lead by example, wear a goddamn mask, and follow the advice of the medical community could have made a large difference.

This is not a country that does obedience well.  Do we really think that people are taking the cues for their behavior from the latest stooge in the WH?  Like "I will not wear a mask because the Orange Buffoon isn't"?  Or alternately "I will wear a mask because Mr. Cognitive Decline is"? Generally speaking, people don't think that way.  They do as they please and then look to rationalize their (mis)behavior.  The days of people looking to the WH for moral leadership pretty much died with Watergate.   

[Buffaloski Boris]

So you wrote 3 long posts opposing mandating masks.
I think your thought on police involvement is over blown but that's another issue.
What is your solution to reducing the infection rates ?? Do nothing ?? I mean the "do nothing" and let people use their best judgement isn't working.
We wasted 3+ months of shutdowns and the new cases are back to what it was before the shutdown. We can't have another shutdown. We have an easy solution to slow down the virus so I'm still befuddled on why so much opposition.

Education. Use words to persuade people to voluntarily wear masks. In a country where our highest elected official refuses to wear a mask and has stated publicly, multiple times, that he thinks mask wearing should be a personal decision, it makes ZERO sense for the government to *mandate* that individuals do anything.

Not at you but that is the most laughable solution.
Have you seen the amount of ignorant people here in the US.
How long was the education that smoking is bad for you ?? Did that stop people from smoking. What about wearing seatbelts ?? How long did those take to get compliance ?? NEVER. Not until it became laws. And we're not talking about making laws for masks. Just start enforcing businesses to comply with the rules would be a great start.

Interesting.  Yet having more of these same masses of "ignorant people" voting is apparently a good end result?

Much as I happen to dislike partisan politics and voting, I will give it this: elections are a relatively reflective of the views and character of the population.

[Kris]

So you wrote 3 long posts opposing mandating masks.
I think your thought on police involvement is over blown but that's another issue.
What is your solution to reducing the infection rates ?? Do nothing ?? I mean the "do nothing" and let people use their best judgement isn't working.
We wasted 3+ months of shutdowns and the new cases are back to what it was before the shutdown. We can't have another shutdown. We have an easy solution to slow down the virus so I'm still befuddled on why so much opposition.

Education. Use words to persuade people to voluntarily wear masks. In a country where our highest elected official refuses to wear a mask and has stated publicly, multiple times, that he thinks mask wearing should be a personal decision, it makes ZERO sense for the government to *mandate* that individuals do anything.

Have you met many people in America?

The information is widely available. People are not wearing masks out of spite at this point because they think it's a political statement. My local professional sports team posted on social media encouraging people to wear masks, and the number of people complaining because "muh freedom" was absurd.

These same people are going to ignore a government mandate anyway. As such, it is going to fall to businesses to deny service to people without masks.

There are some state and local governments that seem to be doing a good job. Andrew Cuomo in NY comes to mind.

I live in the US now, so, yeah, I've met a few Americans. Most of the people in our neighborhood are doing our best to social distance and wear masks whenever we enter businesses. It's not that hard.

In the US we've got some incredibly smart marketing people. Somehow, they manage to convince consumers to purchase a shitload of useless crap, most of which they don't need. It seems like if state and local governments where covid is running rampant, right now, were to hire smart marketing people to conduct a media blitz, they could persuade people to voluntarily start wearing masks. Of course, doing that is complicated by the fact that an election is coming up in a few months.

The example of Hong Kong that expatartist mentioned above was good, I thought. The HK government literally just outlawed the wearing of masks in public, shortly before covid started, but because people there are convinced that masks help keep them healthy, they are mostly all wearing them anyway, even though it's against the law! In the short term, it may not be possible in the US, because of the upcoming election and, also, because of the dipshit in the WH, but convincing the people to wear masks, because it's in their own best interest, seems to me to be the best way to get people to comply, not forcing them to do it.

It doesn't matter who is in the white house. People around here would be doing exactly what they are doing now if Obama was in the white house. We can blame Fox News, the Koch brothers, Americans' longstanding distrust of government, whatever, but a significant number of Americans are going to ignore any recommendations from the government.

A non-shitty Republican who had the sense to lead by example, wear a goddamn mask, and follow the advice of the medical community could have made a large difference.

This is not a country that does obedience well.  Do we really think that people are taking the cues for their behavior from the latest stooge in the WH?  Like "I will not wear a mask because the Orange Buffoon isn't"?  Or alternately "I will wear a mask because Mr. Cognitive Decline is"? Generally speaking, people don't think that way.  They do as they please and then look to rationalize their (mis)behavior.  The days of people looking to the WH for moral leadership pretty much died with Watergate.   

Dude, there were people out there huffing disinfectant because Trump suggested it.

Trump’s base is... impressionable.

[Arbitrage]

Dude, there were people out there huffing disinfectant because Trump suggested it.

Trump’s base is... impressionable.

Stepfather is a wholehearted, impassioned member of Trump's base.  He often repeats, verbatim or near enough, excerpts from Trump's speeches, tweets, or press releases.  Whatever else he says will come straight from Fox News.  If Trump says masks are dumb and/or refuses to wear one, you can bet he won't either. 

[Buffaloski Boris]

Dude, there were people out there huffing disinfectant because Trump suggested it.

Trump’s base is... impressionable.

How many?  5?  30?  Out of a population of 330 million. That's not exactly a trend.  I realize that dummies chugging aquarium cleaner was jumped on by the media as outrage #23,467 of the Orange Buffoon. That doesn't mean that he has some sort of Jim Jones-esque kind of influence on the populace.

Delusional people are going to do delusional things.     

[Kris]

Dude, there were people out there huffing disinfectant because Trump suggested it.

Trump’s base is... impressionable.

Stepfather is a wholehearted, impassioned member of Trump's base.  He often repeats, verbatim or near enough, excerpts from Trump's speeches, tweets, or press releases.  Whatever else he says will come straight from Fox News.  If Trump says masks are dumb and/or refuses to wear one, you can bet he won't either.

Exactly.

Think where we could be right now if Trump had told us all to wear masks from the beginning.

[MasterStache]

Dude, there were people out there huffing disinfectant because Trump suggested it.

Trump’s base is... impressionable.

How many?  5?  30?  Out of a population of 330 million. That's not exactly a trend.  I realize that dummies chugging aquarium cleaner was jumped on by the media as outrage #23,467 of the Orange Buffoon. That doesn't mean that he has some sort of Jim Jones-esque kind of influence on the populace.

Delusional people are going to do delusional things.   

Using the population is a misnomer as the entire population doesn't support Trump. Certainly still not a trend. How many folks have gotten behind Trump and other Republicans claiming we shouldn't be forced to nor do we need to wear mask? Trump wants to continue to push the economy to re-open, schools to re-open. He doesn't even seem to believe in social distancing (see his rallies). Over 130k deaths and counting. Is this obvious influence helping or hurting the trend?

BTW, Jones only convinced roughly 900 followers to kill themselves. Trump's influence reaches far further than 900 folks. Perhaps a really bad comparison on your part.   

[RetiredAt63]

No

My body my choice.

;)

Yes, your choice to potentially infect others.  It is because of people with this attitude that I wear an N95 mask when shopping. 

Eastern Ontario, including Ottawa (Canada's capital, for those who are geographically challenged) now requires masks for shopping.  This was recommended by our local health units.  It was lovely to go to Lowe's yesterday and see staff and customers all wearing masks.  So much less stress than the last time I was there, when it was about 50%.

[Roland of Gilead]

Think where we could be right now if Trump had told us all to wear masks from the beginning.

Actually it wasn't just Trump.  There were a lot of articles about masks not being helpful and actually being more dangerous if worn improperly or taken off incorrectly (would cause you to touch your face with your hands more).

I was surprised back then because it seemed obvious masks would help.

[Tyler durden]

No

My body my choice.

;)

Yes, your choice to potentially infect others.  It is because of people with this attitude that I wear an N95 mask when shopping. 

Eastern Ontario, including Ottawa (Canada's capital, for those who are geographically challenged) now requires masks for shopping.  This was recommended by our local health units.  It was lovely to go to Lowe's yesterday and see staff and customers all wearing masks.  So much less stress than the last time I was there, when it was about 50%.

I just stated it shouldn’t be a government mandate. The government shouldn’t have control over my body. You could say I’m pro choice on wearing masks or not.
 
The life of a fetus elderly person doesn’t give the government rights over my body.

For what it’s with I do wear a mask. I was having a little fun with my comments.

[GuitarStv]

No

My body my choice.

;)

Yes, your choice to potentially infect others.  It is because of people with this attitude that I wear an N95 mask when shopping. 

Eastern Ontario, including Ottawa (Canada's capital, for those who are geographically challenged) now requires masks for shopping.  This was recommended by our local health units.  It was lovely to go to Lowe's yesterday and see staff and customers all wearing masks.  So much less stress than the last time I was there, when it was about 50%.

I just stated it shouldn’t be a government mandate. The government shouldn’t have control over my body. You could say I’m pro choice on wearing masks or not.
 
The life of a fetus elderly person doesn’t give the government rights over my body.

For what it’s with I do wear a mask. I was having a little fun with my comments.

This is a facile argument.

We have plenty of laws that reasonably limit what you can do with your body already - like the ones that prevent you from punching others in the face.  We have laws that prevent you from smoking indoors around others who aren't smoking.  This is done to prevent you from using your body to harm other people.

Failing to wear a mask during this pandemic is doing harm to other people.

The comparison to abortion is pretty off base.  Taking a fetus to term requires significant (and some non-reversible) changes to a woman's body that go on for more than nine months.  This includes a non-negligible risk of death to the woman during childbirth.  Laws preventing abortion infringe on a woman's right to autonomy.  There's no other way for a woman to opt out of childbirth.  Mask laws don't infringe upon your body . . . as they're not required when you're in your home (and usually are only required when you personally choose to attend areas with large numbers of people where social distancing is not possible).  Wearing a mask is therefore an optional mild irritant.  These aren't really comparable at all beyond the most simplistic surface reading.

[RetiredAt63]

No

My body my choice.

;)

Yes, your choice to potentially infect others.  It is because of people with this attitude that I wear an N95 mask when shopping. 

Eastern Ontario, including Ottawa (Canada's capital, for those who are geographically challenged) now requires masks for shopping.  This was recommended by our local health units.  It was lovely to go to Lowe's yesterday and see staff and customers all wearing masks.  So much less stress than the last time I was there, when it was about 50%.

I just stated it shouldn’t be a government mandate. The government shouldn’t have control over my body. You could say I’m pro choice on wearing masks or not.
 
The life of a fetus elderly person doesn’t give the government rights over my body.

For what it’s with I do wear a mask. I was having a little fun with my comments.

This is a facile argument.

We have plenty of laws that reasonably limit what you can do with your body already - like the ones that prevent you from punching others in the face.  We have laws that prevent you from smoking indoors around others who aren't smoking.  This is done to prevent you from using your body to harm other people.

Failing to wear a mask during this pandemic is doing harm to other people.

The comparison to abortion is pretty off base.  Taking a fetus to term requires significant (and some non-reversible) changes to a woman's body that go on for more than nine months.  This includes a non-negligible risk of death to the woman during childbirth.  Laws preventing abortion infringe on a woman's right to autonomy.  There's no other way for a woman to opt out of childbirth.  Mask laws don't infringe upon your body . . . as they're not required when you're in your home (and usually are only required when you personally choose to attend areas with large numbers of people where social distancing is not possible).  Wearing a mask is therefore an optional mild irritant.  These aren't really comparable at all beyond the most simplistic surface reading.

GuitarStv, Thanks for posting this.

You know those signs    "no shirt no shoes no service"     that pop up every summer?  What horrible infringement of personal liberty they must appear to be to people who take Tyler's approach.

And Tyler, I'm glad you do wear a mask.  So why are you arguing against it?  I'm old, my parents were both heavy smokers so my lung function has never been great (lung function 3/5 back in my 30s) and I am blood type A.  So I am at risk.  Every time people who want to play with the debate and argue against masks, for whatever reason, put people like me at risk.  It's not a game for us.

[MasterStache]

No

My body my choice.

;)

Yes, your choice to potentially infect others.  It is because of people with this attitude that I wear an N95 mask when shopping. 

Eastern Ontario, including Ottawa (Canada's capital, for those who are geographically challenged) now requires masks for shopping.  This was recommended by our local health units.  It was lovely to go to Lowe's yesterday and see staff and customers all wearing masks.  So much less stress than the last time I was there, when it was about 50%.

I just stated it shouldn’t be a government mandate. The government shouldn’t have control over my body. You could say I’m pro choice on wearing masks or not.
 
The life of a fetus elderly person doesn’t give the government rights over my body.

For what it’s with I do wear a mask. I was having a little fun with my comments.

This is a facile argument.

We have plenty of laws that reasonably limit what you can do with your body already - like the ones that prevent you from punching others in the face.  We have laws that prevent you from smoking indoors around others who aren't smoking.  This is done to prevent you from using your body to harm other people.

Failing to wear a mask during this pandemic is doing harm to other people.

The comparison to abortion is pretty off base.  Taking a fetus to term requires significant (and some non-reversible) changes to a woman's body that go on for more than nine months.  This includes a non-negligible risk of death to the woman during childbirth.  Laws preventing abortion infringe on a woman's right to autonomy.  There's no other way for a woman to opt out of childbirth.  Mask laws don't infringe upon your body . . . as they're not required when you're in your home (and usually are only required when you personally choose to attend areas with large numbers of people where social distancing is not possible).  Wearing a mask is therefore an optional mild irritant.  These aren't really comparable at all beyond the most simplistic surface reading.

GuitarStv, Thanks for posting this.

You know those signs    "no shirt no shoes no service"     that pop up every summer?  What horrible infringement of personal liberty they must appear to be to people who take Tyler's approach.

And Tyler, I'm glad you do wear a mask.  So why are you arguing against it?  I'm old, my parents were both heavy smokers so my lung function has never been great (lung function 3/5 back in my 30s) and I am blood type A.  So I am at risk.  Every time people who want to play with the debate and argue against masks, for whatever reason, put people like me at risk.  It's not a game for us.

But what about ma rights!!!

[Jack0Life]

No

My body my choice.

;)

Yes, your choice to potentially infect others.  It is because of people with this attitude that I wear an N95 mask when shopping. 

Eastern Ontario, including Ottawa (Canada's capital, for those who are geographically challenged) now requires masks for shopping.  This was recommended by our local health units.  It was lovely to go to Lowe's yesterday and see staff and customers all wearing masks.  So much less stress than the last time I was there, when it was about 50%.

I just stated it shouldn’t be a government mandate. The government shouldn’t have control over my body. You could say I’m pro choice on wearing masks or not.
 
The life of a fetus elderly person doesn’t give the government rights over my body.

For what it’s with I do wear a mask. I was having a little fun with my comments.

Typical answer for everyone that don't want the government to mandate masks.
" I don't want the government to mandate masks BUT I wear one "
How the fuck does that solve our problem of all those entitled ignorant people that refuse to wear one ??