Author Topic: Oklahoma: WTF?  (Read 6799 times)


ixtap

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2022, 06:20:48 PM »
Yep, Louisiana is also going after IUDs as abortion.

Brought to you by the same people who won't let us have universal healthcare because they don't want the government between them and their doctor...

RetiredAt63

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2022, 06:56:39 PM »
Yep, Louisiana is also going after IUDs as abortion.

Brought to you by the same people who won't let us have universal healthcare because they don't want the government between them and their doctor...

Well that makes perfect sense, IUDs prevent implantation of the blastula.    /s

That little cluster of cells pushing into the middle?  That is the part that will become the embryo. 

CodingHare

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2022, 07:17:46 PM »
Yep, Louisiana is also going after IUDs as abortion.

Brought to you by the same people who won't let us have universal healthcare because they don't want the government between them and their doctor...

This is why I have an appointment to get an IUD in two weeks.  If they're willing to do this at the state level, who knows what they will push at the federal level.  Just living in a blue state isn't a guarantee.  At the federal level, I could imagine removing IUDs from the 100% coverage requirement for health insurance, for example.

IUDs are about as good as sterilization at preventing unwanted pregnancy.  For not wanting us to have abortions, these politicians sure want to make it difficult to not put yourself in the position to need them.  I guess there's always solemnly informing my husband that the Government has made it too risky for him to have sex with his wife.

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2022, 07:32:32 PM »
Yep, Louisiana is also going after IUDs as abortion.

Brought to you by the same people who won't let us have universal healthcare because they don't want the government between them and their doctor...

This is why I have an appointment to get an IUD in two weeks.  If they're willing to do this at the state level, who knows what they will push at the federal level.  Just living in a blue state isn't a guarantee.  At the federal level, I could imagine removing IUDs from the 100% coverage requirement for health insurance, for example.

IUDs are about as good as sterilization at preventing unwanted pregnancy.  For not wanting us to have abortions, these politicians sure want to make it difficult to not put yourself in the position to need them.  I guess there's always solemnly informing my husband that the Government has made it too risky for him to have sex with his wife.

Take ALL the over the counter pain meds you can about an hour before your appointment.

I have one, but am pretty sure it needs to be replaced within a year. I'm going to bring it up to my doctor in a few weeks at my regular appt. I'm in a red state, could very easily go to Illinois if needed. But I'm fine with avoiding the whole mess.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2022, 04:29:46 AM »
Agree with @Sibley I didn't do this and it hurt a ton (for less than a minute) and I've given birth twice.  I've heard that it's way smoother with ibuprofen beforehand.

jrhampt

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2022, 05:54:39 AM »
I knew these fuckers were just going to keep getting more and more extreme.  I tried to get an IUD once but they were unable to complete the install because they said my cervix was too short (childbirth lengthens it?) and should try again after I'd given birth.  Uhhh, that's what I was trying to avoid.  Even so, it was painful and I cramped for a while afterwards.  I use the ring continuously and haven't had issues.  It's nice just setting a calendar reminder for once every four weeks when it's time to change it out.  Not that that solves anything in the current extremist climate.

nereo

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2022, 07:48:47 AM »
One fear I have is that some state legislatures will pass laws further criminalizing sex between adults outside of heterosexual marriage.

sonofsven

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2022, 08:42:17 AM »
"They hate us because of our freedoms"
-Some president somewhere.
How about all men need to be in a dna database used to ascertain parentage, and will be monetarily responsible for half of all expenses. If said male cannot fulfill their financial obligations, they shall be sterilized. Why should taxpayers be on the hook for mens choices?

CodingHare

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2022, 08:45:29 AM »
One fear I have is that some state legislatures will pass laws further criminalizing sex between adults outside of heterosexual marriage.

Surely you mean intraracial, cisgender, heterosexual marriage? The question will be how low those states drop the age at which women can marry (with the consent of their fathers).
(Not) fun fact: child marriage is still legal in some states in the US, and children as young as 12 have been married as recently as 2015.  Just in case you need to be more depressed about the world today.

Sailor Sam

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2022, 09:14:19 AM »
This is about a similarly bullshit bill in Lousianna, not Oklahoma, but I find this part of the article particularly distressing:

"HB813 by Rep. Danny McCormick (R-Oil City) would also allow the state to disregard any federal court rulings contradicting the new law and would grant the legislature the right to impeach and remove any state judges that attempt to block it from taking effect."

I'm not surprised by the undermining of the law and order that American ideals rest on, but I still find the fact that we're standing on sand with the tide coming in pretty terrifying.

OtherJen

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2022, 09:45:00 AM »
One fear I have is that some state legislatures will pass laws further criminalizing sex between adults outside of heterosexual marriage.

Surely you mean intraracial, cisgender, heterosexual marriage? The question will be how low those states drop the age at which women can marry (with the consent of their fathers).
(Not) fun fact: child marriage is still legal in some states in the US, and children as young as 12 have been married as recently as 2015.  Just in case you need to be more depressed about the world today.

Legislators in Tennessee authored a bill this year that would remove any minimum age restriction on marriage, which would essentially legalize pedophilia as long as the girls' parents consent. It's currently stalled in the legislature, but given the high prevalence of pedophilia and ephebophilia and tacit acceptance of both in conservative/fundamentalist religion (to the extent that I've wondered aloud whether all fundamentalism is founded in pedophilia), it probably will pass eventually.

Still, I think overturning the SCOTUS rulings of Obergefell v. Hodges (upholds the legality of same-sex marriage) and Griswold v. Connecticut (upholds married couples' right to buy contraception) will be an easier sell than allowing adult men to marry little girls. I expect one or both to be challenged successfully after Roe v. Wade falls. Legalized cisgendered pedophilia will happen later.

jrhampt

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2022, 10:10:53 AM »
Ironic, since the GQP is all panicked about democratic pedophilia rings.  If they accuse others of something they're sure to be doing it themselves (this is what we learned from the Trump years).

OtherJen

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2022, 10:32:19 AM »
Ironic, since the GQP is all panicked about democratic pedophilia rings.  If they accuse others of something they're sure to be doing it themselves (this is what we learned from the Trump years).

Right. Famous fundie and Trump supporter Jim Bob Duggar ran for Arkansas state Senate on a campaign that included the death penalty for pedophiles. His oldest son is currently awaiting sentencing after being convicted of possessing and viewing child sexual abuse media and has a confirmed history of abusing his sisters. Methinks Jim Bob's platform was intended to deflect attention.

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2022, 03:58:10 PM »
One fear I have is that some state legislatures will pass laws further criminalizing sex between adults outside of heterosexual marriage.

Surely you mean intraracial, cisgender, heterosexual marriage? The question will be how low those states drop the age at which women can marry (with the consent of their fathers).
(Not) fun fact: child marriage is still legal in some states in the US, and children as young as 12 have been married as recently as 2015.  Just in case you need to be more depressed about the world today.

Legislators in Tennessee authored a bill this year that would remove any minimum age restriction on marriage, which would essentially legalize pedophilia as long as the girls' parents consent. It's currently stalled in the legislature, but given the high prevalence of pedophilia and ephebophilia and tacit acceptance of both in conservative/fundamentalist religion (to the extent that I've wondered aloud whether all fundamentalism is founded in pedophilia), it probably will pass eventually.

Still, I think overturning the SCOTUS rulings of Obergefell v. Hodges (upholds the legality of same-sex marriage) and Griswold v. Connecticut (upholds married couples' right to buy contraception) will be an easier sell than allowing adult men to marry little girls. I expect one or both to be challenged successfully after Roe v. Wade falls. Legalized cisgendered pedophilia will happen later.

This is pretty significantly out of left field. I'd have to see much more significant evidence of conservative links to trying to allow for child marriages than this, and I think it would be especially nice for you to do so with your implied ties to religion on top of your general argument, which is quite a stretch. From my brief research, what I'm seeing is that recently southern (i.e. conservative) states such as Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina and previously Tenessee going in the other direction on child marriage (maybe not fast enough but not going backwards). There's plenty of other things to talk about that are actually plausible with evidence that could happen or are being pushed for on a larger scale. Probably better to stick with those.

PDXTabs

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2022, 05:45:56 PM »
Yep, Louisiana is also going after IUDs as abortion.

Brought to you by the same people who won't let us have universal healthcare because they don't want the government between them and their doctor...

FWIW there are currently two competing bills in LA. One exempts women who receive an abortion from any criminal prosecution, the other does not. Also, they currently have a Democratic governor.
https://lailluminator.com/2022/05/17/louisiana-legislature-advances-two-abortion-restriction-bills/
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 05:53:01 PM by PDXTabs »

nereo

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2022, 05:51:29 PM »
This is pretty significantly out of left field. I'd have to see much more significant evidence of conservative links to trying to allow for child marriages than this, and I think it would be especially nice for you to do so with your implied ties to religion on top of your general argument, which is quite a stretch. From my brief research, what I'm seeing is that recently southern (i.e. conservative) states such as Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina and previously Tenessee going in the other direction on child marriage (maybe not fast enough but not going backwards). There's plenty of other things to talk about that are actually plausible with evidence that could happen or are being pushed for on a larger scale. Probably better to stick with those.

Hopefully they’ll also criminalize crossing state lines for the purpose of avoiding the local law.

How would this be done under our constitution?”

nereo

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2022, 05:41:50 AM »
This is pretty significantly out of left field. I'd have to see much more significant evidence of conservative links to trying to allow for child marriages than this, and I think it would be especially nice for you to do so with your implied ties to religion on top of your general argument, which is quite a stretch. From my brief research, what I'm seeing is that recently southern (i.e. conservative) states such as Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina and previously Tenessee going in the other direction on child marriage (maybe not fast enough but not going backwards). There's plenty of other things to talk about that are actually plausible with evidence that could happen or are being pushed for on a larger scale. Probably better to stick with those.

Hopefully they’ll also criminalize crossing state lines for the purpose of avoiding the local law.

How would this be done under our constitution?”

I’m sorry I didn’t use my “sarcasm-cynicism” font—there was a Missouri bill proposed earlier this year that would have prohibited Missourians from traveling out of state for abortions, and there is some fairly serious expectation that other states will attempt such extra-territorial regulation of their residents if Roe v. Wade is in fact overturned. I, for one, have already pondered whether this will put Republicans in the position of arguing that there has never been a right to travel under the US constitution, despite its historic recognition as one of the unenumerated rights contemplated by the 9th amendment. The next major recognized but unenumerated right to destroy after that would be privacy.

E.g., https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2022-05-19/out-of-state-bans-threaten-to-extend-the-reach-of-anti-abortion-america-but-some-states-are-preparing
Gotcha.
I missed the sarcasm - perhaps because I’ve been hearing people make this very suggestion in all seriousness. Which is a bit shocking to me because these same folks scream “States Rights!!” At every opportunity, but now seem to want one state to be able to impose their laws on another.



PeteD01

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2022, 07:51:24 AM »
For anyone interested: I think it is an excellent summary of the questions arising when debating abortion rights and both sides can benefit from studying this transcript.


A Moral Philosopher Helps Me Untangle the Questions Beneath the Abortion Debate

The scholar Kate Greasley examines ethical quandaries around life, personhood and bodily autonomy.
Friday, May 20th, 2022

"But on the other hand, I mean, if we’re going to make the category of (fetal) personhood so potent — and we’ve talked about this and why it might be that way, in fact — that we will wipe out the personhood of the pregnant person, right? That we will impose on them something we would never impose under other circumstances. Nine months of forced labor with potentially a very dangerous surgery or one of the most painful experiences known to humankind at the end of it, plus a completely changed life thereafter. I mean, nothing else is like that."


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/20/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-kate-greasley.html?showTranscript=1

Just Joe

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2022, 10:33:58 AM »
One fear I have is that some state legislatures will pass laws further criminalizing sex between adults outside of heterosexual marriage.

Why should this be handled state by state anyhow? Why not national laws for all these topics like marriage, abortion and sex? Probably b/c state's rights creates a many headed dragon harder for the liberals to manage?

CrustyBadger

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2022, 10:48:10 AM »
One fear I have is that some state legislatures will pass laws further criminalizing sex between adults outside of heterosexual marriage.

Why should this be handled state by state anyhow? Why not national laws for all these topics like marriage, abortion and sex? Probably b/c state's rights creates a many headed dragon harder for the liberals to manage?

It's because of the 10th amendment. 

Quote
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.


PeteD01

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2022, 12:40:22 PM »
So Arkansas governor Asa Hutchinson was asked, while discussing the new Oklahoma law, where he stands on the Arkansas trigger law he signed a while back and which bans abortions outright with the only exception for saving the life of the pregnant woman. There are no exceptions for pregnancies after rape or incest.

Governor Hutchinson suggested that the law will need to be revisited to include exceptions under such circumstances and also said that he would have liked those exceptions to be included in the law he signed but that there were no majorities for that at the time.

Hutchinson is a graduate of Bob Jones University and his religion is listed as christian. That means he is not really into the fine points of protecting all human life, ensoulment and fetal personhood beyond the political exploitation of such notions.

The problem is that there are those for whom fetal personhood and protection of human life is the whole point and for them all unborns are babies and, consequently, all abortions are murders of babies.
There is only one reason these people agree with the maternal indication, that is abortion to save the mother, and that reason is that the unborn would die no matter what and saving the woman´s life therefore becomes a consideration.
The trouble is that a change to the law allowing abortion after rape and incest gets the state into the business of deciding which fetus deserves to live and which not - not a big deal for christians like Hutchinson but for those who consider abortions the killing of babies, it is definitely a big deal.
Interestingly, it is also a big deal for anyone who wishes to decrease the total number of abortions and have those that are performed to be done as early during gestation as possible by establishing easy access to reproductive health services that also provide abortion services. It´s a big deal because of the difficulty and the time consuming process of establishing that rape or incest has actually occurred, thereby pushing the abortions of perfectly healthy fetuses toward a later gestational age. Add to that the often late presentation of incest victims and you have the potential for truly horrifying scenarios.

(A while ago, Greg Abbott, governor of Texas responded differently to a similar question regarding the Texas anti-abortion law: he simply said that there would be no more rapes in Texas, and what that implies is pretty clear. But Abbott saw the problem that could cause problems in the Pro-life political coalition)


https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2022/05/22/arkansas-state-trigger-law-abortion-incest-rape-governor-asa-hutchinson-sotu-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/

RetiredAt63

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2022, 04:10:51 PM »
(A while ago, Greg Abbott, governor of Texas responded differently to a similar question regarding the Texas anti-abortion law: he simply said that there would be no more rapes in Texas, and what that implies is pretty clear.)

What it implies is what?  That men will stop raping?  Or that rapes are all figments of womens' imaginations?

Can I vote for the first choice?   /s

PeteD01

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2022, 04:28:58 PM »
(A while ago, Greg Abbott, governor of Texas responded differently to a similar question regarding the Texas anti-abortion law: he simply said that there would be no more rapes in Texas, and what that implies is pretty clear.)

What it implies is what?  That men will stop raping?  Or that rapes are all figments of womens' imaginations?

Can I vote for the first choice?   /s

Think about it this way: once you make abortion illegal, a rape victim is strongly discouraged from reporting the crime, because the victim would instantly become a subject of state/vigilante surveillance, as victims of rape could be expected to urgently seek abortion if pregnancy should result from the crime.The perfidiousness of the effect is that the laws discourage reporting of the crime in close temporal proximity even if pregnancy ultimately does not result - because one might need an abortion later on. But then the damage is done: any delay in reporting makes the crime more difficult to prove and reach a conviction.

« Last Edit: May 22, 2022, 04:39:05 PM by PeteD01 »

RetiredAt63

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2022, 06:41:34 PM »
(A while ago, Greg Abbott, governor of Texas responded differently to a similar question regarding the Texas anti-abortion law: he simply said that there would be no more rapes in Texas, and what that implies is pretty clear.)

What it implies is what?  That men will stop raping?  Or that rapes are all figments of womens' imaginations?

Can I vote for the first choice?   /s

Think about it this way: once you make abortion illegal, a rape victim is strongly discouraged from reporting the crime, because the victim would instantly become a subject of state/vigilante surveillance, as victims of rape could be expected to urgently seek abortion if pregnancy should result from the crime.The perfidiousness of the effect is that the laws discourage reporting of the crime in close temporal proximity even if pregnancy ultimately does not result - because one might need an abortion later on. But then the damage is done: any delay in reporting makes the crime more difficult to prove and reach a conviction.

My mind didn't go there, but now that you have laid it out, oh my.    So your governor just gave these scum a free hunting license.

PeteD01

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2022, 12:57:48 PM »
...

Legislators in Tennessee authored a bill this year that would remove any minimum age restriction on marriage, which would essentially legalize pedophilia as long as the girls' parents consent. It's currently stalled in the legislature, but given the high prevalence of pedophilia and ephebophilia and tacit acceptance of both in conservative/fundamentalist religion (to the extent that I've wondered aloud whether all fundamentalism is founded in pedophilia), it probably will pass eventually.

...


So it is not just the catholic church that is infested with sexual predators but also the evangelical movement. Apparently, the Southern Baptist Convention last year commissioned a report in response to widespread allegations of child and other sexual abuse. The report was just released and is rather interesting. Similar to the catholic church, organizational structures in the evangelical movement are being used to facilitate sexual predation, provide cover for the perpetrators and intimidate victims.
So we have now two of the largest, and politically affiliated via the GOP and the Pro-Life movement, religious groups in the country, the catholic church and the evangelical movement, exposed as providing organizational cover for perpetrators of pedophilia and other types of sexual abuse.



The Southern Baptist Horror

How many bad apples must we pluck before we recognize that the orchard is diseased?

"I remember when the Catholic abuse scandals started lighting up the media. Those reports were similarly hard to read, and while I’m not a Catholic, I had a hard time believing that the evangelical Church was any different. I’d seen multiple scandals during my own time in church, and my own wife, Nancy, was abused by a vacation-Bible-school teacher when she was only 12. The decentralization of American Protestantism has meant that it’s hard to grasp the scale of the crisis. But this much we know—abuse is occurring across the length and breadth of the evangelical Church."


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/southern-baptist-evangelical-allegations-cover-up/629954/



And here is a link to the full report:


https://tinyurl.com/2p8cbfzn

« Last Edit: May 23, 2022, 05:42:46 PM by PeteD01 »

wenchsenior

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2022, 01:21:10 PM »
I'm SHOCKED to find gambling going on in this facility.

I just assume that the reason the right is so obsessively fixated on pedophilia is b/c they are harboring so much institutionalized pedophilia themselves, so they assume the left must be even worse. Somehow.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2022, 01:21:59 PM »
So it is not just the catholic church that is infested with sexual predators but also the evangelical movement.

Both are very patriarchal organizations with a built-in view of -1- women as second class citizens (whose main jobs are to obey and serve their husbands and to produce children) and -2- children as totally subject to their parents' (and other adults') authority.  So I can't say I am surprised.

PeteD01

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2022, 01:31:08 PM »
So it is not just the catholic church that is infested with sexual predators but also the evangelical movement.

Both are very patriarchal organizations with a built-in view of -1- women as second class citizens (whose main jobs are to obey and serve their husbands and to produce children) and -2- children as totally subject to their parents' (and other adults') authority.  So I can't say I am surprised.

Yes, all of a sudden they don´t appear as such strange bedfellows in the Pro-Life movement anymore: working hard on the supply side ...

PeteD01

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2022, 01:38:51 PM »
I'm SHOCKED to find gambling going on in this facility.

I just assume that the reason the right is so obsessively fixated on pedophilia is b/c they are harboring so much institutionalized pedophilia themselves, so they assume the left must be even worse. Somehow.

Fixed that.
Standard operating procedure of the right is to accuse the opponent of what they are guilty themselves - no assumption needed at all, it´s reflexive.

CodingHare

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2022, 01:54:23 PM »
So it is not just the catholic church that is infested with sexual predators but also the evangelical movement.

Both are very patriarchal organizations with a built-in view of -1- women as second class citizens (whose main jobs are to obey and serve their husbands and to produce children) and -2- children as totally subject to their parents' (and other adults') authority.  So I can't say I am surprised.

Other reasons this is so prevalent:

A strong culture of blaming the victim for tempting others to sin: "Does wearing this top make your Brother in Christ stumble?"
A strong culture of over trusting-ness based on in-group status: "We have a great youth pastor!  It's so nice that he is taking the kids on a camp trip!"  "With no other adults to help supervise?" "Oh he's good with kids"
A strong culture against divorce: "She should have prayed to work it out.  Now the home is broken."
A strong culture assuming everyone is born evil and therefore children cannot be trusted.  "She's trying to ruin Pastor X's reputation, he would never do that.  Kids lie all the time."
A strong culture equating having sex to making a person equivalent to chewed gum (literally): "I can't report that the youth pastor is molesting me!  Even though she deserves it, my reputation would be ruined and my family will shun me."

etc etc etc

Not all of these are unique to religious organizations, but the layer of trust religion pretends to offer leaves the vulnerable ripe for abusers to harvest.  And we know abusers gravitate towards positions of trust and power to ensure a steady supply of victims.

So much shade thrown at Catholics when we knew damn well it wasn't just a Catholic problem.  (Not excusing the horrific abuses perpetrated by the Catholic church, just noting that a lot of the stones were being thrown from glass houses.)

Kris

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2022, 02:05:57 PM »
I'm SHOCKED to find gambling going on in this facility.

I just assume that the reason the right is so obsessively fixated on pedophilia is b/c they are harboring so much institutionalized pedophilia themselves, so they assume the left must be even worse. Somehow.

Fixed that.
Standard operating procedure of the right is to accuse the opponent of what they are guilty themselves - no assumption needed at all, it´s reflexive.

And then they found their perfect candidate in Donald Trump. The leader of the Republican Party raised DARVO to a fine art, thus giving added legitimacy to the practice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO

PeteD01

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2022, 02:14:26 PM »
I'm SHOCKED to find gambling going on in this facility.

I just assume that the reason the right is so obsessively fixated on pedophilia is b/c they are harboring so much institutionalized pedophilia themselves, so they assume the left must be even worse. Somehow.

Fixed that.
Standard operating procedure of the right is to accuse the opponent of what they are guilty themselves - no assumption needed at all, it´s reflexive.

And then they found their perfect candidate in Donald Trump. The leader of the Republican Party raised DARVO to a fine art, thus giving added legitimacy to the practice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO

And it explains perfectly why there is such an obsession with children being exposed to sex and gender education in school. After all, that type of education is known to provide the young victims with the ability to recognize abuse as what it is when it occurs, possibly as early as the grooming stage. And of course, DARVO dictates that teachers are accused of being groomers if they talk about such things.

CodingHare

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2022, 02:20:24 PM »
And it explains perfectly why there is such an obsession with children being exposed to sex and gender education in school. After all, that type of education is known to provide the young victims with the ability to recognize abuse as what it is when it occurs, possibly as early as the grooming stage. And of course, DARVO dictates that teachers are accused of being groomers if they talk about such things.

Well, that and the false belief that gender and sexual orientation is something that can be changed.  That's why you hear all this crap about people choosing to be LGBT+.  They literally believe if they don't teach their kids the words for these things, their kid can't turn out gay.  That's not even touching that teaching kids LGBT+ people exist, have rights, and it is okay to be these things, which is of course contradictory to what bigots want taught.

That's why they obfuscate and pretend that teaching kids about sex will make them have sex, or teaching kids about gay people will make the kids gay.  The real goal is to continue slut shaming people who have sex they don't approve of.  Child mothers resulting from abstinence only education and suicides of bullied trans kids are acceptable causalities, apparently.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2022, 02:31:00 PM »
Apparently there are people who also believe that autism can be cured.  So if one is neuron-divergent in any way (autistic, LGBT+, etc.) one is either sick and can be cured, or is choosing that behaviour and can be persuaded out of it.  They have no room in society for anyone but the neuro-typical (and those who fake it well). 


PeteD01

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2022, 10:23:12 AM »
Another article about the Southern Baptist Convention child and other sexual abuse scandal. It looks more and more serious and, given the extent of the abuse and the number of victims, it is unlikely to disappear any time soon from the news:



A Twisted, Ugly Betrayal of the Church

Leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention reportedly chose to protect their denomination by hiding abuse—and then attempted to destroy the victims.


"It’s nearly impossible to overstate how much damage these new revelations—these necessary and long-overdue revelations—are doing to the Christian witness. No atheist, no secularists or materialists, could inflict nearly as much damage to the Christian faith as these leaders within the Christian Church have done."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/southern-baptist-convention-abuse-report/630173/

« Last Edit: May 24, 2022, 10:51:36 AM by PeteD01 »

Just Joe

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2022, 10:50:03 AM »
All that is needed now for a total FUBAR mess is for a Christian celebrity to be outed as a predator...

CodingHare

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2022, 11:55:24 AM »
All that is needed now for a total FUBAR mess is for a Christian celebrity to be outed as a predator...

That's just news at 11.  Bill Gothard? Sexual predator and pastor.  Josh Duggar? Child 'actor' for a reality show showcasing the Quiverfull Christian lifestyle, incestuous child sex abuser.

But of course, they spend a little time out of the limelight, come back with 'accountability' from other church leaders (never the victims they abuse) saying they have changed thanks to even more Jesus, come hear my testimony, come tithe to my church and fund my lifestyle...  and oh, haven't they EARNED back the privilege to be left alone with their victims?

Abusive organizations circle wagons around their abusive members, news at 11.

sonofsven

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2022, 12:23:42 PM »
I watched a video this morning of a pastor telling his "flock" of a singular transgression of adultery, "over 20 years ago", that he wanted to be honest about now. "It was only once" he claimed, then went on and on about sin, forgiveness, honesty, blah blah blah.
They gave him a standing ovation.
Then a woman walked up and said that, basically, he was still lying, that she was 16 years old when the "adultery" happened and that it was much more than once.
She got no standing ovation.
These folks want to be lied to I think.

PeteD01

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2022, 07:39:38 AM »
$160 looks like a bargain:


Data Broker Is Selling Location Data of People Who Visit Abortion Clinics

"It costs just over $160 to get a week's worth of data on where people who visited Planned Parenthood came from, and where they went afterwards.

A location data firm is selling information related to visits to clinics that provide abortions including Planned Parenthood facilities, showing where groups of people visiting the locations came from, how long they stayed there, and where they then went afterwards, according to sets of the data purchased by Motherboard."


https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7vzjb/location-data-abortion-clinics-safegraph-planned-parenthood

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2022, 08:00:14 AM »
$160 looks like a bargain:


Data Broker Is Selling Location Data of People Who Visit Abortion Clinics

"It costs just over $160 to get a week's worth of data on where people who visited Planned Parenthood came from, and where they went afterwards.

A location data firm is selling information related to visits to clinics that provide abortions including Planned Parenthood facilities, showing where groups of people visiting the locations came from, how long they stayed there, and where they then went afterwards, according to sets of the data purchased by Motherboard."


https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7vzjb/location-data-abortion-clinics-safegraph-planned-parenthood

You know… not too long ago there was a thread on here discussing data privacy and the selling of personal information by data brokers. A few posters acknowledged that phone carrier and social media collected massive amounts of data which was sold to data brokers, but did not believe that such micro targeting and surveillance  was happening or likely.

It’s increasingly obvious now that one can buy sensitive information based on just about any cause they feel particularly invested in. A few months ago data was used to identify people who had attended Trumps Jan 6th rally and then gone into Congress. Now it’s being used to identify people who have gone to clinics.

jrhampt

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2022, 09:28:39 AM »
I mean.  These clinics do a lot more than just abortion.  I went to a Planned Parenthood for years for pap smears and birth control.  So just using location data to show someone went to Planned Parenthood does not mean they had an abortion there.  Not that it's anyone's business.

CodingHare

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2022, 10:02:06 AM »
But it could be used by prosecution as evidence that your miscarriage was actually an abortion.  If it's the only abortion clinic in the state, that will weigh as evidence that you are there for an abortion.  You only need to convince a jury of your peers that a woman is guilty.  Let's not downplay how dangerous this is.

We have no right to control the data our cell phones collect on us.  If you visit PP, leave your cell phone behind and use a burner.  Cut as many threads of evidence as you can, because these people will use anything they can against you.

PeteD01

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2022, 10:18:41 AM »
I mean.  These clinics do a lot more than just abortion.  I went to a Planned Parenthood for years for pap smears and birth control.  So just using location data to show someone went to Planned Parenthood does not mean they had an abortion there.  Not that it's anyone's business.

Look at it like open source intelligence: aggregating openly available sources allows analysis at a different level than analyzing each source on its own, now add sources that are only accessible to the authorities, such as police records etc., and you got a good surveillance system that would likely work and can be improved upon over time.

jrhampt

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2022, 11:12:17 AM »
But it could be used by prosecution as evidence that your miscarriage was actually an abortion.  If it's the only abortion clinic in the state, that will weigh as evidence that you are there for an abortion.  You only need to convince a jury of your peers that a woman is guilty.  Let's not downplay how dangerous this is.

We have no right to control the data our cell phones collect on us.  If you visit PP, leave your cell phone behind and use a burner.  Cut as many threads of evidence as you can, because these people will use anything they can against you.

Oh, I agree that it's dangerous.  I'm just saying that you can't conclude someone got an abortion just because they are at a Planned Parenthood.  It's a side note, but a lot of the value of these clinics is not just the abortion services but ALSO the other reproductive health services such as cancer screenings and birth control that they provide to low income and underinsured people.  And that's one of the reasons why it's a damn shame they're disappearing.  Because "crisis pregnancy centers" don't provide pap smears or birth controls.  Or abortions.

GuitarStv

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2022, 11:20:24 AM »


When do we start stocking up on red robes and white bonnets?

RetiredAt63

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2022, 12:18:56 PM »


When do we start stocking up on red robes and white bonnets?

Well Ford has said he is open to back benchers initiating anti-abortion legislation.  And we have an election in 1 week (literally 1 week, 7 days!).  We are not invulnerable.  Let's not even get into Reform-under-another-name federally, we have another thread for that.

Just Joe

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Re: Oklahoma: WTF?
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2022, 08:54:47 AM »
But it could be used by prosecution as evidence that your miscarriage was actually an abortion.  If it's the only abortion clinic in the state, that will weigh as evidence that you are there for an abortion.  You only need to convince a jury of your peers that a woman is guilty.  Let's not downplay how dangerous this is.

We have no right to control the data our cell phones collect on us.  If you visit PP, leave your cell phone behind and use a burner.  Cut as many threads of evidence as you can, because these people will use anything they can against you.

A full featured FOSS Linux smartphone that doesn't have Apple or Google in it can't arrive soon enough... And I have no desire to own a car with telemetry tracking baked in. 

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!