Author Topic: Musk takeover  (Read 81437 times)

Travis

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #750 on: March 12, 2025, 10:37:25 AM »
These are Italian nationals working on US bases in Italy. They're unionized and are there in accordance with US agreements. It's not going to be pretty if DOGE decides to fire them based on the "5 bullets" email.

https://bsky.app/profile/nytimes.com/post/3lk6xvejtwc2d

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/12/world/europe/musk-email-italy-airbase.html?smtyp=cur&smid=bsky-nytimes

Federal Judge: DOGE can have access to DoL databases because it's clearly a government agency, but that also means it must comply with FOIA.

https://www.publicnotice.co/p/doge-foia

GuitarStv

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #751 on: March 12, 2025, 11:07:19 AM »
You see the Planck length as evidence of the discrete nature of spacetime - but that is not where the Planck length is coming from.

The Planck length is the distance below which the equations of quantum mechanics return nonsensical results (as in probabilities not adding up to 1 etc.) and was introduced by Heisenberg.
Nonsensical results mean just that: there is nothing that can be inferred from them. The Planck length is a limit imposed on the equations of quantum mechanics and must give the appearance of spacetime chunkiness precisely because the equations still work at and above the Planck length.
Thus, the Planck length came into being because of the mathematical necessity of treating spacetime as quantized when using quantum mechanics equations - which is not exactly surprising, duh. Therefore, the Planck length indicates a limit imposed by nature of some sort but does not necessarily entail discreteness of spacetime at distances smaller than the Planck length.

(Another example of equations ceasing to work is Newtonian mechanics when relativistic effects begin to matter - Newtonian mechanics beyond the limita of their applicability do not tell us anything about relativity but are a good approximation when relativistic effects are minimal.)

In summary, the Planck length does not constitute evidence for or against chunkiness of spacetime below its value.

Yeah, the lack of valid response that you get when trying to go below Planck length has a special meaning to me as a software engineer.  'Undefined results' is what happens in software when you try to access something that doesn't exist.  This only lends credence to simulation theory.  When you get that small you're going below the intended use case by trying to access data that the simulation doesn't have.  It makes perfect sense that you get back garbage in that instance.

Epistemologically, I don't find your argument to be stronger than mine on this matter.  You're just operating from different initial assumptions about the universe.

And this leads to the second issue which involves inference to the most likely explanation:
Attributing the apparent smoothness of spacetime to insufficient resolution despite using all our means is not a parsimonious explanation as it involves postulation of certain conditions that make a thing appear as something that it is not.
The parsimonious explanation is that what we are seeing is indeed what is - and this is the explanation against which the defense must be directed, i.e. continuous spacetime is the parsimonious explanation and chunky spacetime would need to be demonstrated in order to reject continuous spacetime.

There is no evidence yet in support of discrete spacetime but it is a possibility.

You are simply extrapolating based upon a completely different system (looking at larger stuff where resolution is sufficient to allow for a continuous spacetime approximation).  This forces the observations we've made about the universe into these unsupported assumptions.

There is no evidence yet in support of continuous spacetime.  But it is certainly a possibility.

PeteD01

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #752 on: March 12, 2025, 12:09:47 PM »
You see the Planck length as evidence of the discrete nature of spacetime - but that is not where the Planck length is coming from.

The Planck length is the distance below which the equations of quantum mechanics return nonsensical results (as in probabilities not adding up to 1 etc.) and was introduced by Heisenberg.
Nonsensical results mean just that: there is nothing that can be inferred from them. The Planck length is a limit imposed on the equations of quantum mechanics and must give the appearance of spacetime chunkiness precisely because the equations still work at and above the Planck length.
Thus, the Planck length came into being because of the mathematical necessity of treating spacetime as quantized when using quantum mechanics equations - which is not exactly surprising, duh. Therefore, the Planck length indicates a limit imposed by nature of some sort but does not necessarily entail discreteness of spacetime at distances smaller than the Planck length.

(Another example of equations ceasing to work is Newtonian mechanics when relativistic effects begin to matter - Newtonian mechanics beyond the limita of their applicability do not tell us anything about relativity but are a good approximation when relativistic effects are minimal.)

In summary, the Planck length does not constitute evidence for or against chunkiness of spacetime below its value.

Yeah, the lack of valid response that you get when trying to go below Planck length has a special meaning to me as a software engineer.  'Undefined results' is what happens in software when you try to access something that doesn't exist.  This only lends credence to simulation theory.  When you get that small you're going below the intended use case by trying to access data that the simulation doesn't have.  It makes perfect sense that you get back garbage in that instance.

Epistemologically, I don't find your argument to be stronger than mine on this matter.  You're just operating from different initial assumptions about the universe.

And this leads to the second issue which involves inference to the most likely explanation:
Attributing the apparent smoothness of spacetime to insufficient resolution despite using all our means is not a parsimonious explanation as it involves postulation of certain conditions that make a thing appear as something that it is not.
The parsimonious explanation is that what we are seeing is indeed what is - and this is the explanation against which the defense must be directed, i.e. continuous spacetime is the parsimonious explanation and chunky spacetime would need to be demonstrated in order to reject continuous spacetime.

There is no evidence yet in support of discrete spacetime but it is a possibility.

You are simply extrapolating based upon a completely different system (looking at larger stuff where resolution is sufficient to allow for a continuous spacetime approximation).  This forces the observations we've made about the universe into these unsupported assumptions.

There is no evidence yet in support of continuous spacetime.  But it is certainly a possibility.

I think you are misinterpreting what I'm saying.
I've stated early in the conversation that the Planck length limit is more a necessary constraint on current quantum mechanics math that requires quantization of spacetime in order to work.

A reconciliation of the apparent contradiction between continuous spacetime at the macroscopic level, as per special relativity, and the quantized spacetime of quantum mechanics requires a new theory of gravity.

I'm not talking about extrapolation of special relativity into small physics but the quantum theory of gravity that could possibly resolve the paradox.
That quantum theory of gravity does not yet exist and the math required is not yet known.

So the missing link between special relativity and quantum mechanics is a quantum theory of gravity and there is no convincing evidence for such a theory requiring a discrete minimum length: if it requires it, spacetime is more likely to be discrete; if it doesn't, continuous spacetime of special relativity is extended into the subatomic realm (but not extrapolation of special relativity itself).

Continuous spacetime requires fewer moving parts than discrete spacetime and therefore remains the favored hypothesis, but it is not a strong case at all.

All this could be resolved once we got a quantum theory of gravity but remains unsettled for now.

From the article:

Einstein's theory cannot answer it. We assume that there's a quantum theory of gravity out there, but we don't know whether that theory will also require a distance-scale cutoff or not. Heisenberg's original argument came about from trying (and failing) to renormalize Enrico Fermi's original theory of beta decay; the development of electroweak theory and the Standard Model removed the need for a discrete minimum length. Perhaps, with a quantum theory of gravity, we won't need a minimum length scale to renormalize any and all of our theories. 
« Last Edit: March 12, 2025, 12:21:45 PM by PeteD01 »

Archipelago

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #753 on: March 12, 2025, 01:42:49 PM »
If anyone wants a good belly laugh today, here you go.

https://news.va.gov/138540/va-secretary-addresses-benefits-rumors-video/

reeshau

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #754 on: March 12, 2025, 01:59:05 PM »
This is probably going to do the opposite:

Trump official tasked with defending DOGE cuts posted fashion influencer videos from her office

McLaurine Pinover, appointee as chief spokesperson for the Office of Personnel Management, has been posting "fashion influencer" videos on ShopMy, including from her office at the agency's DC headquarters, for which she receives commissions on sales.



Travis

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #757 on: March 12, 2025, 05:43:52 PM »
Judge Chutkan calls for discovery in DOGE identities and their actual authority.

https://bsky.app/profile/kyledcheney.bsky.social/post/3lk7npdqqo22y

Just Joe

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #758 on: March 13, 2025, 11:18:49 AM »
Hmm, let's see. Here is the playbook.
Step 1) Destroy the ability of the Social Security Administration and Medicare to function effectively.
Step 2) Point to this as a reason to end it. My hero!

I can't think of any Mexican immigrants that threaten me. I can think of a South African immigrant who is actively trying to destroy my retirement income and health insurance. At the same time lower taxes for billionaires and corporations.

Well, we have to pay for all the billionaire tax cuts SOMEHOW...

Greedy SOBs. They apparently want all the money.

Just Joe

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #759 on: March 13, 2025, 11:21:48 AM »
Woah sorry for the quantum foam
You do know that Trump inspired quantum foam is orange, right?

Once and for all - it's BLUE!

Now did Trump BUY those Teslas? He said he would just a day or so before...

Travis

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #760 on: March 13, 2025, 01:05:28 PM »
Elon still pushing and boosting the claim that every SSA entry in their database is receiving a check.

https://x.com/Shayan86/status/1900242150115156291

And the sociopath retweeted this earlier today.

https://x.com/billdmccarthy/status/1900189713505337845?t=yYsad5kT6s1VNpRDyoS9dw&s=19

In DOGE-adjacent news, Elon's board, friends, and family (and there's a Venn diagram for that) have been dumping their Tesla shares.

https://electrek.co/2025/02/06/tesla-cfo-chairwoman-and-elons-brother-sold-tens-of-millions-worth-of-tsla-stocks/

https://electrek.co/2025/03/10/tesla-tsla-insider-trading-elons-friend-james-murdoch-just-unloaded-13-million/

wenchsenior

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #761 on: March 13, 2025, 01:18:19 PM »
Elon still pushing and boosting the claim that every SSA entry in their database is receiving a check.

https://x.com/Shayan86/status/1900242150115156291

And the sociopath retweeted this earlier today.

https://x.com/billdmccarthy/status/1900189713505337845?t=yYsad5kT6s1VNpRDyoS9dw&s=19

In DOGE-adjacent news, Elon's board, friends, and family (and there's a Venn diagram for that) have been dumping their Tesla shares.

https://electrek.co/2025/02/06/tesla-cfo-chairwoman-and-elons-brother-sold-tens-of-millions-worth-of-tsla-stocks/

https://electrek.co/2025/03/10/tesla-tsla-insider-trading-elons-friend-james-murdoch-just-unloaded-13-million/

He's a fucking monster, and this is starting to make me seriously consider the option of putting together bug out bags.

Also in other cheery news, I had heard that the GOP was interested in passing this type of law nationally, but I had not heard that New Hampshire (!) had actually passed it!  Incredible vote suppression technique on poor people and married women.

https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2025-03-11/nhs-new-id-requirements-send-some-would-be-voters-home-to-grab-passports-birth-certificates

anotherAlias

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #762 on: March 13, 2025, 03:26:28 PM »
Musk's fixation on SSA payments makes me very nervous.  From statements he has made I don't think he understands that a spouse or dependent can claim on a persons record after they die.  I'm worried the widows/widowers like my mom are going to get caught in some fuck up because he and his team don't fully understand how SS works.

Kris

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #763 on: March 13, 2025, 03:28:53 PM »
Musk's fixation on SSA payments makes me very nervous.  From statements he has made I don't think he understands that a spouse or dependent can claim on a persons record after they die.  I'm worried the widows/widowers like my mom are going to get caught in some fuck up because he and his team don't fully understand how SS works.

100% someone is going to get caught in the crossfire before this is over.

anotherAlias

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #764 on: March 13, 2025, 03:35:29 PM »
Musk's fixation on SSA payments makes me very nervous.  From statements he has made I don't think he understands that a spouse or dependent can claim on a persons record after they die.  I'm worried the widows/widowers like my mom are going to get caught in some fuck up because he and his team don't fully understand how SS works.

100% someone is going to get caught in the crossfire before this is over.

That's why I downloaded her SS statement and have a reminder in my calendar to check her checking account for the deposit on the fourth Wed of the month.  I feel like I'm being paranoid but then I watch the news and know I'm not.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #765 on: March 13, 2025, 03:57:20 PM »
Musk's fixation on SSA payments makes me very nervous.  From statements he has made I don't think he understands that a spouse or dependent can claim on a persons record after they die.  I'm worried the widows/widowers like my mom are going to get caught in some fuck up because he and his team don't fully understand how SS works.

100% someone is going to get caught in the crossfire before this is over.

That's why I downloaded her SS statement and have a reminder in my calendar to check her checking account for the deposit on the fourth Wed of the month.  I feel like I'm being paranoid but then I watch the news and know I'm not.

There is no paranoid at this point.

Poundwise

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #766 on: March 13, 2025, 08:07:52 PM »
Elon still pushing and boosting the claim that every SSA entry in their database is receiving a check.

https://x.com/Shayan86/status/1900242150115156291

And the sociopath retweeted this earlier today.

https://x.com/billdmccarthy/status/1900189713505337845?t=yYsad5kT6s1VNpRDyoS9dw&s=19


It seems to me that they want to privatize the administration of Social Security so somebody's company can get a nice fat commission.

LennStar

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #767 on: March 14, 2025, 05:18:14 AM »
Tesla Germany tries to withhold wages for people who called in sick because the sickness rate there is relativly high.

Putting aside that maybe this is because of how the place itself is designed or the extensive pressure Musk routinely puts on his employees; this is clearly a violation of German laws.
We need to get a doctor's attest that we are sick, and then we have "free" as long as this takes. The employer doesn't get told what the reason is.
Musk is now trying to pressure the workers into allowing their doctors to tell them what the illness of the worker is. As you can imagine that isn't taken with enthusiasm by the workers. Not to mention the unions.
I cannot imagine this will be good for morale or brand.

bacchi

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #768 on: March 14, 2025, 08:36:12 AM »
Tesla Germany tries to withhold wages for people who called in sick because the sickness rate there is relativly high.

Putting aside that maybe this is because of how the place itself is designed or the extensive pressure Musk routinely puts on his employees; this is clearly a violation of German laws.
We need to get a doctor's attest that we are sick, and then we have "free" as long as this takes. The employer doesn't get told what the reason is.
Musk is now trying to pressure the workers into allowing their doctors to tell them what the illness of the worker is. As you can imagine that isn't taken with enthusiasm by the workers. Not to mention the unions.
I cannot imagine this will be good for morale or brand.

I can see the eventual closing of that plant given the lower sales in the region. Europe can be supplied by the China plant, which is (also) not running at capacity.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #769 on: March 14, 2025, 08:46:01 AM »
Tesla Germany tries to withhold wages for people who called in sick because the sickness rate there is relativly high.

Putting aside that maybe this is because of how the place itself is designed or the extensive pressure Musk routinely puts on his employees; this is clearly a violation of German laws.
We need to get a doctor's attest that we are sick, and then we have "free" as long as this takes. The employer doesn't get told what the reason is.
Musk is now trying to pressure the workers into allowing their doctors to tell them what the illness of the worker is. As you can imagine that isn't taken with enthusiasm by the workers. Not to mention the unions.
I cannot imagine this will be good for morale or brand.

It's the American attitude towards proper worker protection.  Amazon recently closed its Quebec warehouses for a spurious reason, we all know it was truly because they were trying to unionize (which is protected in Canada, hence the spurious reason).

PeteD01

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #770 on: March 16, 2025, 12:15:28 PM »
You see the Planck length as evidence of the discrete nature of spacetime - but that is not where the Planck length is coming from.

The Planck length is the distance below which the equations of quantum mechanics return nonsensical results (as in probabilities not adding up to 1 etc.) and was introduced by Heisenberg.
Nonsensical results mean just that: there is nothing that can be inferred from them. The Planck length is a limit imposed on the equations of quantum mechanics and must give the appearance of spacetime chunkiness precisely because the equations still work at and above the Planck length.
Thus, the Planck length came into being because of the mathematical necessity of treating spacetime as quantized when using quantum mechanics equations - which is not exactly surprising, duh. Therefore, the Planck length indicates a limit imposed by nature of some sort but does not necessarily entail discreteness of spacetime at distances smaller than the Planck length.

(Another example of equations ceasing to work is Newtonian mechanics when relativistic effects begin to matter - Newtonian mechanics beyond the limita of their applicability do not tell us anything about relativity but are a good approximation when relativistic effects are minimal.)

In summary, the Planck length does not constitute evidence for or against chunkiness of spacetime below its value.

Yeah, the lack of valid response that you get when trying to go below Planck length has a special meaning to me as a software engineer.  'Undefined results' is what happens in software when you try to access something that doesn't exist.  This only lends credence to simulation theory.  When you get that small you're going below the intended use case by trying to access data that the simulation doesn't have.  It makes perfect sense that you get back garbage in that instance.

Epistemologically, I don't find your argument to be stronger than mine on this matter.  You're just operating from different initial assumptions about the universe.

And this leads to the second issue which involves inference to the most likely explanation:
Attributing the apparent smoothness of spacetime to insufficient resolution despite using all our means is not a parsimonious explanation as it involves postulation of certain conditions that make a thing appear as something that it is not.
The parsimonious explanation is that what we are seeing is indeed what is - and this is the explanation against which the defense must be directed, i.e. continuous spacetime is the parsimonious explanation and chunky spacetime would need to be demonstrated in order to reject continuous spacetime.

There is no evidence yet in support of discrete spacetime but it is a possibility.

You are simply extrapolating based upon a completely different system (looking at larger stuff where resolution is sufficient to allow for a continuous spacetime approximation).  This forces the observations we've made about the universe into these unsupported assumptions.

There is no evidence yet in support of continuous spacetime.  But it is certainly a possibility.

I think you are misinterpreting what I'm saying.
I've stated early in the conversation that the Planck length limit is more a necessary constraint on current quantum mechanics math that requires quantization of spacetime in order to work.

A reconciliation of the apparent contradiction between continuous spacetime at the macroscopic level, as per special relativity, and the quantized spacetime of quantum mechanics requires a new theory of gravity.

I'm not talking about extrapolation of special relativity into small physics but the quantum theory of gravity that could possibly resolve the paradox.
That quantum theory of gravity does not yet exist and the math required is not yet known.

So the missing link between special relativity and quantum mechanics is a quantum theory of gravity and there is no convincing evidence for such a theory requiring a discrete minimum length: if it requires it, spacetime is more likely to be discrete; if it doesn't, continuous spacetime of special relativity is extended into the subatomic realm (but not extrapolation of special relativity itself).

Continuous spacetime requires fewer moving parts than discrete spacetime and therefore remains the favored hypothesis, but it is not a strong case at all.

All this could be resolved once we got a quantum theory of gravity but remains unsettled for now.

From the article:

Einstein's theory cannot answer it. We assume that there's a quantum theory of gravity out there, but we don't know whether that theory will also require a distance-scale cutoff or not. Heisenberg's original argument came about from trying (and failing) to renormalize Enrico Fermi's original theory of beta decay; the development of electroweak theory and the Standard Model removed the need for a discrete minimum length. Perhaps, with a quantum theory of gravity, we won't need a minimum length scale to renormalize any and all of our theories. 

Just came across this video about the problem discussed above - posted today:


New Experiment To Look for Quantum Noise of Space Itself
Sabine Hossenfelder, Mar 16, 2025

Physicists are stuck on trying to figure out why gravity and quantum mechanics don’t get along. For almost 100 years now, they have been looking for a theory of quantum gravity to solve the problem. But one of the most general expectations of a quantization of gravity is that space also has quantum fluctuations. And a team of researchers from Caltech now says they’ve got a tabletop experiment which could find those fluctuations. Could this solve the problem? Let’s take a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G-A-KwOvDM

Travis

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #771 on: March 17, 2025, 10:16:11 AM »
The nuclear agency that builds, secures, and monitors our nuclear weapons did not get all of their staff back.

https://bsky.app/profile/emptywheel.bsky.social/post/3lkkyrcjdx22w

USDA staffing cuts now preventing food from reaching store shelves and leaving it to rot

https://bsky.app/profile/wired.com/post/3lkkvs5afuf2y

https://www.wired.com/story/usda-food-supply-chains/?utm_content=buffera537c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=bluesky&utm_campaign=aud-dev
« Last Edit: March 17, 2025, 10:47:23 AM by Travis »

GuitarStv

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #772 on: March 17, 2025, 10:44:51 AM »
But it's so efficient!

LennStar

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #773 on: March 17, 2025, 12:57:01 PM »
But it's so efficient!
Clearly the fault is the inefficient checking of food coming into the country. That should all just be scrapped.
If a few hundred people die from poisened donuts, the rest will hear about it and avoid the product! Let the Free Market solve it!

partgypsy

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #774 on: March 17, 2025, 02:57:15 PM »
Saw this on Reddit, supposedly in Alabama

HPstache

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #775 on: March 17, 2025, 04:05:47 PM »
Saw this on Reddit, supposedly in Alabama

No one that I have heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in the USA

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #776 on: March 17, 2025, 04:53:16 PM »
Saw this on Reddit, supposedly in Alabama

No one that I have heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in the USA

Um...... I'm confused.

HPstache

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #777 on: March 17, 2025, 05:05:32 PM »
Saw this on Reddit, supposedly in Alabama

No one that I have heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in the USA

Um...... I'm confused.

What part are you confused about?  Elon Musk is a legal US immigrant.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #778 on: March 17, 2025, 07:22:21 PM »
Saw this on Reddit, supposedly in Alabama

No one that I have heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in the USA

Um...... I'm confused.

What part are you confused about?  Elon Musk is a legal US immigrant.

You said no one you've heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in America. That's kind of a good portion of Trump's rhetoric.....

HPstache

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #779 on: March 17, 2025, 09:14:38 PM »
Saw this on Reddit, supposedly in Alabama

No one that I have heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in the USA

Um...... I'm confused.

What part are you confused about?  Elon Musk is a legal US immigrant.

You said no one you've heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in America. That's kind of a good portion of Trump's rhetoric.....

No, there is a clear distinction between illegal vs legal immigration.   Someone just rented an entire billboard to advertise that they have no idea of the difference.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2025, 09:35:40 PM by HPstache »

OzzieandHarriet

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Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #781 on: March 17, 2025, 09:43:49 PM »
Saw this on Reddit, supposedly in Alabama

No one that I have heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in the USA

Um...... I'm confused.

What part are you confused about?  Elon Musk is a legal US immigrant.

You said no one you've heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in America. That's kind of a good portion of Trump's rhetoric.....

No, there is a clear distinction between illegal vs legal immigration.   Someone just rented an entire billboard to advertise that they have no idea of the difference.   Just like, apparently you.

Have you paid attention to the news? Perhaps the person who followed all the rules and is being targeted because of stating an opinion on Gaza?

What do you mean by "illegal?" The spoken rhetoric seems to imply that the people being deported are all criminals/gang members/ etc. is that what you're meaning by illegal? The words are deliberately being obsfucated.

Trump calls them all criminals, for example, when a large portion of people here in that situation have overstayed their visa, which is a civil, not criminal offense. As the eloquent John Oliver said, Trump should be familiar with the difference between criminal and civil violations.... He's committed both.

So, yes, by throwing around a blanket term of "illegal" and a variety of other direct and indirect actions, it's pretty clear that Trump is not particularly for immigration. I'm struggling to fathom how this is even remotely confusing. One of Trump's most consistent targets for demonization has been immigrants.

HPstache

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #782 on: March 17, 2025, 10:15:35 PM »
Saw this on Reddit, supposedly in Alabama

No one that I have heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in the USA

Um...... I'm confused.

What part are you confused about?  Elon Musk is a legal US immigrant.

You said no one you've heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in America. That's kind of a good portion of Trump's rhetoric.....

No, there is a clear distinction between illegal vs legal immigration.   Someone just rented an entire billboard to advertise that they have no idea of the difference.   Just like, apparently you.

Have you paid attention to the news? Perhaps the person who followed all the rules and is being targeted because of stating an opinion on Gaza?

What do you mean by "illegal?" The spoken rhetoric seems to imply that the people being deported are all criminals/gang members/ etc. is that what you're meaning by illegal? The words are deliberately being obsfucated.

Trump calls them all criminals, for example, when a large portion of people here in that situation have overstayed their visa, which is a civil, not criminal offense. As the eloquent John Oliver said, Trump should be familiar with the difference between criminal and civil violations.... He's committed both.

So, yes, by throwing around a blanket term of "illegal" and a variety of other direct and indirect actions, it's pretty clear that Trump is not particularly for immigration. I'm struggling to fathom how this is even remotely confusing. One of Trump's most consistent targets for demonization has been immigrants.

The conservative stance is anti illegal (undocumented)  immigration, any sort of "stealing your jobs" conversation is with regards to that.  The deportation of immigrants who commit crimes is not the issue... that happens all president's watches, see Obama's reign as the "Deporter in Chief".  Referring to Musk, a legal immigrant, as an "Immigrant that is stealing your jobs" as a burn is laughably wrong and I'm sure I'm not the only person this is obvious to.

Gremlin

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #783 on: March 17, 2025, 11:29:39 PM »
The nuclear agency that builds, secures, and monitors our nuclear weapons did not get all of their staff back.

https://bsky.app/profile/emptywheel.bsky.social/post/3lkkyrcjdx22w

Allegedly several were found by foreign governments well before the US Government managed to recontact them.

LennStar

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #784 on: March 18, 2025, 12:31:36 AM »
Saw this on Reddit, supposedly in Alabama

No one that I have heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in the USA

Um...... I'm confused.

What part are you confused about?  Elon Musk is a legal US immigrant.

You said no one you've heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in America. That's kind of a good portion of Trump's rhetoric.....
It's simple, really: They don't want illegal immigrants getting jobs, and they don't want any immigrant to be legal.

deborah

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #785 on: March 18, 2025, 03:55:02 AM »
That ad is hilarious. And true. Elon is an immigrant. He’s already taken away the jobs of hundreds of thousands of people both when he fired a lot of people from twitter, and since he’s been in DOGE. If you’re one of them, he’s taken your job.

PeteD01

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #786 on: March 18, 2025, 05:52:18 AM »
That ad is hilarious. And true. Elon is an immigrant. He’s already taken away the jobs of hundreds of thousands of people both when he fired a lot of people from twitter, and since he’s been in DOGE. If you’re one of them, he’s taken your job.

Add to that the H1-b visa issue where legal immigrants are hired into coercive situations where they constitute unfair competition with US workers in many cases.

That set off a spat with MAGA who hates all immigrants regardless of legal status whereas Elon Musk is strongly in favor of the H1-b immigration program.

PeteD01

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #787 on: March 18, 2025, 06:19:55 AM »
Do they think the starving red hats are going to quietly go away when their SS dries up?


Elon Musk's war on Social Security unmasks the GOP's true disdain for retirees
Terms like "vampires," "fraud," "scam" and "definitely dead" are how the DOGE leader demonizes elderly people
By Amanda Marcotte
Published March 18, 2025

Musk frames retired people in parasitical terms, not seeing them as those who have paid their dues and have earned their reward. In light of that, when he speaks of "waste" in Social Security, he's hinting at this broader view that retired people are inherently illegitimate. While he couches language like "vampire" and "fraud" in false claims that he's talking about illegal payments, the accumulated impact of his rhetoric is to demonize elderly people as a useless burden on society. When the end goal is "efficiency," it's easy to get to this view that retired people are an "inefficiency" and "redundancy" that should no longer be funded.

https://www.salon.com/2025/03/18/elon-musks-on-social-security-unmasks-the-gops-true-disdain-for-retirees/

GuitarStv

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #788 on: March 18, 2025, 07:25:06 AM »
Saw this on Reddit, supposedly in Alabama

No one that I have heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in the USA

Um...... I'm confused.

What part are you confused about?  Elon Musk is a legal US immigrant.

You said no one you've heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in America. That's kind of a good portion of Trump's rhetoric.....
It's simple, really: They don't want illegal immigrants getting jobs, and they don't want any immigrant to be legal.

Given the Republican stance of making all immigration harder and increasing the amount of immigration called illegal - yeah.  This sounds about right.  To be fair, white immigrants (like Musk) typically get looked upon more favourably than non-white immigrants.

mtnrider

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #789 on: March 18, 2025, 10:06:21 AM »
Do they think the starving red hats are going to quietly go away when their SS dries up?

I suspect that this message is aimed at convincing young people to become MAGA.

Back when we were young, Gen X also saw social security taxes as funding something we might never get.  We'd gripe about it, but without an outlet we shrugged and the world went on.  Now Gen Z has a political party inviting them to join them in demonizing social security.

mtnrider

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #790 on: March 18, 2025, 10:18:43 AM »

The Know Rogan podcast just did a fact check of Musk's February 2025 appearance on Rogan.

Summary: Musk told lots of lies.  From DOGE savings numbers and transparency, to Ebola funding, to Social Security, to using Musk's Grok AI for medical data.  See the podcast and show notes for details.

https://www.knowrogan.com/0013-elon-musk/

Fru-Gal

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #791 on: March 18, 2025, 10:25:03 AM »
BTW my prediction that Musk psychologically couldn’t handle the hate is shaping up to be true.

PeteD01

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #792 on: March 18, 2025, 11:01:30 AM »
Do they think the starving red hats are going to quietly go away when their SS dries up?

I suspect that this message is aimed at convincing young people to become MAGA.

Back when we were young, Gen X also saw social security taxes as funding something we might never get.  We'd gripe about it, but without an outlet we shrugged and the world went on.  Now Gen Z has a political party inviting them to join them in demonizing social security.

Well, that might be a miscalculation as the demise of SS and Medicare/Medicaid/CHIP would place a serious burden on younger generations that has never had to think about having their elderly relatives become en masse financially dependent on them.

It is sometimes ignored that entitlement programs that keep seniors fed, sheltered and cared for are of immediate benefit to many who are paying payroll taxes.

Add to that the removal of trillions, that tend to be spent in local economies, from the economy and it's clear that the ripple effects are going to be dramatic - particularly in rural areas.

wenchsenior

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #793 on: March 18, 2025, 11:13:51 AM »
Do they think the starving red hats are going to quietly go away when their SS dries up?

I suspect that this message is aimed at convincing young people to become MAGA.

Back when we were young, Gen X also saw social security taxes as funding something we might never get.  We'd gripe about it, but without an outlet we shrugged and the world went on.  Now Gen Z has a political party inviting them to join them in demonizing social security.

Well, that might be a miscalculation as the demise of SS and Medicare/Medicaid/CHIP would place a serious burden on younger generations that has never had to think about having their elderly relatives become en masse financially dependent on them.

It is sometimes ignored that entitlement programs that keep seniors fed, sheltered and cared for are of immediate benefit to many who are paying payroll taxes.

Add to that the removal of trillions, that tend to be spent in local economies, from the economy and it's clear that the ripple effects are going to be dramatic - particularly in rural areas.

Yup. Two huge problems that I see with young people wanting to do away with SS and Medicaid is that they don't realize the monumental financial and/or caregiving burden that would fall on them if that were actually done.

It's really scary how many people have no idea just how expensive care for the elderly (at home or in nursing homes) actually is... Medicaid covers most of that.

Tell young people that they suddenly will need to physically care for aging parents and grandparents or else foot bills between 5K and 15K a month for someone else to do it and watch how fast the idea of cutting it to slightly increase their take-home pay evaporates.

Travis

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #794 on: March 18, 2025, 11:32:06 AM »
More on Musk's war against Social Security. Basically "break the system then declare it bad."

https://www.axios.com/2025/03/17/social-security-trump-doge
« Last Edit: March 18, 2025, 05:10:42 PM by Travis »

DoubleDown

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #795 on: March 18, 2025, 11:35:03 AM »
Saw this on Reddit, supposedly in Alabama

No one that I have heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in the USA

Um...... I'm confused.

What part are you confused about?  Elon Musk is a legal US immigrant.

You said no one you've heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in America. That's kind of a good portion of Trump's rhetoric.....
It's simple, really: They don't want illegal immigrants getting jobs, and they don't want any immigrant to be legal.

Given the Republican stance of making all immigration harder and increasing the amount of immigration called illegal - yeah.  This sounds about right.  To be fair, white immigrants (like Musk) typically get looked upon more favourably than non-white immigrants.

Yeah, we shouldn't forget that Trump 2.0 is offering "gold card" visas to people paying the $5 million fee for it. And that Trump 1.0 infamously said how he likes immigrants from countries like Norway, Sweden (i.e., mostly white), and that we just had to keep people out from the "shithole" countries (i.e. non-white). Also GuitarStv, my spell-checker is pointing out that "favourably" should be spelled the proper American way, "favorably." ;-) Although at this point I'm more likely to accept Canadian ways of doing things than American.

GuitarStv

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #796 on: March 18, 2025, 11:43:34 AM »
Saw this on Reddit, supposedly in Alabama

No one that I have heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in the USA

Um...... I'm confused.

What part are you confused about?  Elon Musk is a legal US immigrant.

You said no one you've heard of is against immigrants getting jobs in America. That's kind of a good portion of Trump's rhetoric.....
It's simple, really: They don't want illegal immigrants getting jobs, and they don't want any immigrant to be legal.

Given the Republican stance of making all immigration harder and increasing the amount of immigration called illegal - yeah.  This sounds about right.  To be fair, white immigrants (like Musk) typically get looked upon more favourably than non-white immigrants.

Yeah, we shouldn't forget that Trump 2.0 is offering "gold card" visas to people paying the $5 million fee for it. And that Trump 1.0 infamously said how he likes immigrants from countries like Norway, Sweden (i.e., mostly white), and that we just had to keep people out from the "shithole" countries (i.e. non-white). Also GuitarStv, my spell-checker is pointing out that "favourably" should be spelled the proper American way, "favorably." ;-) Although at this point I'm more likely to accept Canadian ways of doing things than American.

Did you guys deport the 'u's from colour, neighbour, favourably, honour, valour too or something?  :P

RetiredAt63

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #797 on: March 18, 2025, 12:16:55 PM »
Trivia, the US is the only English speaking country that pronounces the letter z as zee instead of zed.  So I'm sure you understand that it is hard to accept the lazy spelling (no u) of a country that can't even pronounce a letter correctly.   ;-)

Re SS and Medicaid.   What better way to have women leave the job market than to dump elder-care on them?  Because historically it was women (daughters and daughters-in-law) who did that work.  And they will be too exhausted to protest social change.  Win-win-win.

wenchsenior

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #798 on: March 18, 2025, 12:20:49 PM »
Trivia, the US is the only English speaking country that pronounces the letter z as zee instead of zed.  So I'm sure you understand that it is hard to accept the lazy spelling (no u) of a country that can't even pronounce a letter correctly.   ;-)

Re SS and Medicaid.   What better way to have women leave the job market than to dump elder-care on them?  Because historically it was women (daughters and daughters-in-law) who did that work.  And they will be too exhausted to protest social change.  Win-win-win.

I am very suspicious that this is exactly the goal.

Travis

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Re: Musk takeover
« Reply #799 on: March 18, 2025, 12:24:49 PM »
Trivia, the US is the only English speaking country that pronounces the letter z as zee instead of zed.  So I'm sure you understand that it is hard to accept the lazy spelling (no u) of a country that can't even pronounce a letter correctly.   ;-)

Re SS and Medicaid.   What better way to have women leave the job market than to dump elder-care on them?  Because historically it was women (daughters and daughters-in-law) who did that work.  And they will be too exhausted to protest social change.  Win-win-win.

I am very suspicious that this is exactly the goal.

Vance was very clear during the campaign that "post-menopausal women" (his creepy way of describing grandmothers) are the key to beating the high cost of childcare while also mashing the "women need to have more babies" button.