MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt

[Ron Scott]

I'm of the opinion that billionaires are a policy failure.  There is no human need so great that it cannot be met with a cool 100 Million.  Beyond that, or even less, wealth is just a power mechanism.

15?ish years ago Piketty's 'Capital in the 21st Century' was published, to a round of howling and screeching by most every media outlet and pundit.  His argument, backed with mountains of evidence, was that unfettered capitalism leads to a massive overconcentration of wealth at the top.  What follows after is a distortion of the political process as the wealthy grab more power for themselves - the better to further enrich themselves.

Of course, the inarguable fact that he turns out to be correct must be small comfort for him.

Piketty spent his energy exhaustively documenting a simple fact that most economists have agreed on for many decades: Market-based capitalism improves the standards of living for millions but also increases inequality. He could have written a magazine article instead and said the exact same thing with the exact same impact.

But here’s the thing: Who has the power to intelligently regulate the markets so that the benefits are realized with less of the downsides? Congress.

Whenever you see a party-line vote (almost ALL THE TIME) your KNOW members of the house and senate are voting as they are instructed by their party bosses, not on behalf of their constituents. The bosses in the RNC and DNC call the shots. It’s a shame they’re in it for themselves and not the country…

[Ron Scott]

It is quite fascinating to watch how the media are scampering to re-envision Musk for their liberal v. right “market segments”

Musk was obviously a Dem fanboy for many years. In presidential. campaigns he supported Obama twice, Hillary, and then Biden. He openly criticized Trump’s character during the 2016 campaign.

Musk got a huge DOE loan which helped fund Tesla’s Model S etc. around 2010 and the Dems were leaning into his EV thing as big-Green and so on. Obama was all over SpaceX as a key partner to NASA and heralded Musk for pushing the private-public collaboration and commercialization of space. Musk was the first private enterprise to dock with the International Space Station. There was a big solar energy thing Musk was involved with the Dems on too—SolarCity—and Obama visited it with him. Musk often talked about the need for “sustainable” and “renewable” energy…which the Dems ate up like crazy. Musk even supported Obamacare: He was all in.

Under Trump V1.0 Musk was on some advisory councils but he dropped out in protest over Trump’s decision to leave the Paris Climate accord. So even under Trump, Musk was still leaning more left than right.

Something happened under Biden though. Biden wasn’t in love with him. I remember Biden hosted a big EV futures event and deliberately left Musk and Tesla out of it despite the lead role Tesla played in the industry. Jen Psaki rubbed salt into the wound, saying—well we invited the 3 largest employers of the UAW so figure it out! (IMO that’s an asshole move…)

During Biden, a lot of Musk’s west coast tech bros were getting pretty tough treatment that really surprised them. They went from being gods who walked among us on the left to scumbags who were encouraging teen suicide for profit..that sort of thing. And the GOP was attacking them for controlling pro-right speech on their platforms.

I understand the current discontent on the left with bigtech and Musk. But I actually think they committed a forced political error and can’t figure out how to undo it. The Dems, for whatever reason, decided to turn on tech in a really pissy way…for what?

We should all try to consider what would have happened last November if the Dems kept Silicon Valley inside the tent instead of snubbing them like pariahs.

THANK YOU JOE: https://www.newsweek.com/elon-musk-donald-trump-joe-biden-tesla-spacex-1967931

 

Soooo . . . are we just openly acknowledging that billionaire tech giants control US elections now?

Look—Sad but true, the DNC and RNC have completely captured the national legislative and governing processes but since there’s 2 of them there’s still that sliver of competition to contend with.

Could the Dems have won if Joe stepped aside a year ago? If Harris and others engaged in a REAL primary? If they did a little more to slow the record border crossings? If they kept the unions and “the working man” (constituiencies they OWNED for decades)? If..If..If…? Very possibly yes.

But they managed to lose constituencies they HAD IN THE BAG. And that’s just stupid.

[reeshau]

We should all try to consider what would have happened last November if the Dems kept Silicon Valley inside the tent instead of snubbing them like pariahs.

Soooo . . . are we just openly acknowledging that billionaire tech giants control US elections now?

Yeah, I don't think that's an overstatement.  I think it's pretty clear that at the very least they have a huge influence.

They do if one lets them - fortunately, there are signs that the love affair between Democrats and billionaires with oligarchic ambitions might be ending.

The idea that billionaires of Musk´s oligarchic mold are flipping back and forth being Democrats and Republicans is nonsense because they are neither.
They opportunistically  support and manipulate those that act most in their interest and that may be Democrats today and Republicans tomorrow. That's what sociopathy in action looks like.

The single-minded pursuit of their self interest is also their achilles heel of the oligarchs as it puts them squarely at odds with the public interest, but also at odds with other billionaires/oligarchs and political forces.

Freezing the oligarchs out of the political process is the one and only measure needed to clip their wings, and, historically, that has worked quite well because oligarchs tend to antagonize pretty much everyone at some point.

+1

This is the most clear-eyed view of the situation I have read so far.  All those tech CEO's, like industrial CEO's before them, are not working on an ideological dimension.  At least, not as defined by political parties, or even one country's politics.  It is simple self interest.

Look at how many, for how long, have flocked to Davos.  Just to get the summary of the politicos?  No, to change their minds.  To influence them.

Elon spent $277M to elect Trump, including ideas to outright pay voters.  His wealth increased $300B after the election.  Not a bad payback for less than a year's work.  Plus, access foe the next four years.

Winners Take All, by Anand Giridharadas has an interesting perspective of someone who was in that orbit, lucidly looking at it.

[Ron Scott]

When you look at it through the eyes of a Democrat or a Republican, Musk et al can be heroes or demons, depending on how the political winds are blowing. The party apparatchiks and their media parasites provide the labels and observe the consequences. When they learn their lessons the hard way, the same fools place the same labels on different antagonists and try again. They know their partisans will be good lapdogs and dutifully recite their new talking points.

Next…

[bacchi]

When you look at it through the eyes of a Democrat or a Republican, Musk et al can be heroes or demons, depending on how the political winds are blowing. The party apparatchiks and their media parasites provide the labels and observe the consequences. When they learn their lessons the hard way, the same fools place the same labels on different antagonists and try again. They know their partisans will be good lapdogs and dutifully recite their new talking points.

Next…

Situations change. People change.

Next...

[Ron Scott]

When you look at it through the eyes of a Democrat or a Republican, Musk et al can be heroes or demons, depending on how the political winds are blowing. The party apparatchiks and their media parasites provide the labels and observe the consequences. When they learn their lessons the hard way, the same fools place the same labels on different antagonists and try again. They know their partisans will be good lapdogs and dutifully recite their new talking points.

Next…

Situations change. People change.

Next...

Bingo!

[bacchi]

When you look at it through the eyes of a Democrat or a Republican, Musk et al can be heroes or demons, depending on how the political winds are blowing. The party apparatchiks and their media parasites provide the labels and observe the consequences. When they learn their lessons the hard way, the same fools place the same labels on different antagonists and try again. They know their partisans will be good lapdogs and dutifully recite their new talking points.

Next…

Situations change. People change.

Next...

Bingo!

No, not bingo.

I realize that's a common tactic to win points -- "Ha! The libs used to love Musk but now they don't!" -- but it's ok to change your mind about someone when they start spouting far-right, nationalist, ideas.

Situations change. People change. We don't need "media parasites" to tell us that someone is an asshole when they're letting us know that using their own platform.

[achvfi]

When you look at it through the eyes of a Democrat or a Republican, Musk et al can be heroes or demons, depending on how the political winds are blowing. The party apparatchiks and their media parasites provide the labels and observe the consequences. When they learn their lessons the hard way, the same fools place the same labels on different antagonists and try again. They know their partisans will be good lapdogs and dutifully recite their new talking points.

Next…

Situations change. People change.

Next...

Bingo!

No, not bingo.

I realize that's a common tactic to win points -- "Ha! The libs used to love Musk but now they don't!" -- but it's ok to change your mind about someone when they start spouting far-right, nationalist, ideas.

Situations change. People change. We don't need "media parasites" to tell us that someone is an asshole when they're letting us know that using their own platform.

Yo Ron Scott, man stop it. Your both sides are equal and both sides do it all bad thing Schtick to every conversation is quite tiresome. You seem to troll every tread with same idea, doesn't matter how specific or what the topic is.

[achvfi]

I found this video compelling. A short compilation of Tesla CEO support for Nazi and Far right activists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjWl_RNDMSA

I forget when Musk was transitioned from ECO-buddy to the devil. Around 2022??

I think it coincided roughly with the time he started heavily using ketamine to treat his depression.  Ketamine is linked to increased impulsivity and antisocial personality changes, and coupled with Musk's existing personality I've often wondered if this is what has pushed forward the version of him that so many people find off-putting.

If some one comes from rich family at top of food chain in apartheid South Africa, I think you can clearly understand the right wing, racist and Neo nazi views that people like Elon Musk, Peter Theil develop over their early formative years. Their families with fathers, grand fathers with the bigoted view are more of factor than any thing recent. 

https://www.ft.com/content/cfbfa1e8-d8f8-42b9-b74c-dae6cc6185a0

These are not recent developments. Elon Musk has always been who he is now. He is constantly testing limits. Being rich all their lives also helps them take unimaginable risks for most people. He has been pushing boundaries all his life with not much of consequence. Every time his antics have no consequence he gets bolder.

But there is salience of drug use though. Drugs do make people fearless, aggressive and add fuel to fire that is already burning.

[twinstudy]

I'm of the opinion that billionaires are a policy failure.  There is no human need so great that it cannot be met with a cool 100 Million.  Beyond that, or even less, wealth is just a power mechanism.

15?ish years ago Piketty's 'Capital in the 21st Century' was published, to a round of howling and screeching by most every media outlet and pundit.  His argument, backed with mountains of evidence, was that unfettered capitalism leads to a massive overconcentration of wealth at the top.  What follows after is a distortion of the political process as the wealthy grab more power for themselves - the better to further enrich themselves.

Of course, the inarguable fact that he turns out to be correct must be small comfort for him.

This might be true but if you save $40,000 per month over a working career of 20 years at a 7% compounding rate you end up with $21 million at the end of it. At the end of that period, let's say you're 50 years old and you live for another 30 years, consuming $15,000 each month for living expenses (this is a lot of money). By the end of your life the stash is worth $152 million and in another 30 years' time (when your heirs are reaching adulthood), even assuming no further deposits and monthly withdrawals of $15,000 the stash is worth $1.2 billion. That's with pretty modest compounding, no crazy bitcoin surge, and no fancy tricks.

So I can see how a high-upper-middle-class family (say top 0.3-0.5% in income plus good, frugal savings philosophy) over 2 generations could get to that sort of wealth. It's the Musk/Bezos kind of wealth that is unattainable.

[partgypsy]

What percent of the population makes 40k a month, let alone saves 40k a month?

[twinstudy]

What percent of the population makes 40k a month, let alone saves 40k a month?

According to this article

https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/

Top 1% as of 2021 was around $682,000 per year. Those are individual incomes, so I'm guessing a top 1% household would be high six figures.

[Ron Scott]

When you look at it through the eyes of a Democrat or a Republican, Musk et al can be heroes or demons, depending on how the political winds are blowing. The party apparatchiks and their media parasites provide the labels and observe the consequences. When they learn their lessons the hard way, the same fools place the same labels on different antagonists and try again. They know their partisans will be good lapdogs and dutifully recite their new talking points.

Next…

Situations change. People change.

Next...

Bingo!

No, not bingo.

I realize that's a common tactic to win points -- "Ha! The libs used to love Musk but now they don't!" -- but it's ok to change your mind about someone when they start spouting far-right, nationalist, ideas.

Situations change. People change. We don't need "media parasites" to tell us that someone is an asshole when they're letting us know that using their own platform.

Yo Ron Scott, man stop it. Your both sides are equal and both sides do it all bad thing Schtick to every conversation is quite tiresome. You seem to troll every tread with same idea, doesn't matter how specific or what the topic is.

Dude, if you don’t like it don’t read it. I’m good.

But if you’re selling party-line/media-lackey partisanship as salvation in light of the never-ending failures this approach has yielded in our lifetimes, I’m not buying. THAT’S the shit that’s tiring…

Those who believe choosing sides and blaming the “enemies within” are the keys to prosperity—while regurgitating party talking points like little lemmings— are dooming us all.

[scottish]

What percent of the population makes 40k a month, let alone saves 40k a month?

I think it's a typo.  4K per month would pretty well do it.

[achvfi]

When you look at it through the eyes of a Democrat or a Republican, Musk et al can be heroes or demons, depending on how the political winds are blowing. The party apparatchiks and their media parasites provide the labels and observe the consequences. When they learn their lessons the hard way, the same fools place the same labels on different antagonists and try again. They know their partisans will be good lapdogs and dutifully recite their new talking points.

Next…

Situations change. People change.

Next...

Bingo!

No, not bingo.

I realize that's a common tactic to win points -- "Ha! The libs used to love Musk but now they don't!" -- but it's ok to change your mind about someone when they start spouting far-right, nationalist, ideas.

Situations change. People change. We don't need "media parasites" to tell us that someone is an asshole when they're letting us know that using their own platform.

Yo Ron Scott, man stop it. Your both sides are equal and both sides do it all bad thing Schtick to every conversation is quite tiresome. You seem to troll every tread with same idea, doesn't matter how specific or what the topic is.

Dude, if you don’t like it don’t read it. I’m good.

But if you’re selling party-line/media-lackey partisanship as salvation in light of the never-ending failures this approach has yielded in our lifetimes, I’m not buying. THAT’S the shit that’s tiring…

Those who believe choosing sides and blaming the “enemies within” are the keys to prosperity—while regurgitating party talking points like little lemmings— are dooming us all.

This tells more about you than anybody else. I think most people don't think in terms of party ideology or talking points. Individuals can have their own opinions with no relation to any party. Put your party nonsense and us vs them aside, it makes for better discussion of ideas.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

The only good thing about having hyper partisan posters is that I get a tenable amount of exposure to what the Fox News / Social Media addicted consumers of information are digesting and spitting back up to each other.  The fact that they couch their posts with 'everyone else are lemmings / brainwashed / communists' helps me distinguish just how superficial and emotionally manipulated some of my fellow Americans are.  It's a complicated time as disinformation thrives and distrust of journalists and the media is fomented by our top politicians and billionaires (who benefit from misplaced trust and confusion), but I remain hopeful that oligarchs and corrupt politicians overplay their hands and the pendulum swings back to the center in the coming years, for the time being we are concerningly off balance.

[Financial.Velociraptor]

The only good thing about having hyper partisan posters is that I get a tenable amount of exposure to what the Fox News / Social Media addicted consumers of information are digesting and spitting back up to each other.  The fact that they couch their posts with 'everyone else are lemmings / brainwashed / communists' helps me distinguish just how superficial and emotionally manipulated some of my fellow Americans are.  It's a complicated time as disinformation thrives and distrust of journalists and the media is fomented by our top politicians and billionaires (who benefit from misplaced trust and confusion), but I remain hopeful that oligarchs and corrupt politicians overplay their hands and the pendulum swings back to the center in the coming years, for the time being we are concerningly off balance.

I'm increasingly of the opinion we are about to see that there is a de facto "fourth branch of government" in the United States and it is intermediate and long term bond investors.  Moreso if they hold government debt.  People are going to notice real quick if the new oligarch's policies are met with bond selling (increasing long term interest rates).  I'm sure what I consider the 'new mainstream media' is going to try to blame liberals for rising interest rates but I think it is going to be hard sell when everyone's real estate and equity holdings are declining and costs are going up across the board.  The peanut gallery was promised cheap eggs and gas.  They are not going to get it in my opinion, exactly the opposite.

I think bond investors still represent the "smart money" and are almost entirely politically neutral.  They act of pure self interest and have the longest planning horizon of any of the power brokers in America.  They are the "other billionaires" that we don't hear about.  And they don't signal ahead of time what they want much.  They just go about self interested trading of bonds and we see the evidence of their consensus in the 10/20/30 year Treasury yields. 

This fourth branch is actually quite a lot more powerful than the Fed.  About a trillion dollars of US Treasuries trade daily.  The volume of foreign currency trading hands at any moment is almost unimaginable and one drives the other.  The fourth branch is capable of creating (and profiting from!) a currency and debt crisis. 

FAFO.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

...  The peanut gallery was promised cheap eggs and gas.  They are not going to get it in my opinion, exactly the opposite.
...

I think that peanut gallery is in for a long four years.  Having a slow moving, internally conflicted government is a good thing sometimes.  When Trump's answer to bringing down prices has been a couple throw away lines demanding OPEC to 'do him a solid and stop hurting his feelings'.  The rest of his promises apparently hinged on that, because then he can demand lower interest rates, oh and by the way, that'll also hurt Russia enough that they'll come to the table and end the Ukraine invasion... 

Meanwhile, everything else he actually is doing is going to explode the national debt, like cutting taxes, deporting everyone in the most expensive and productivity destroying way possible, and pursuing investments like AI, Crypto, buying Greenland, acquiring the Panama Canal...  Will their actually be offsetting cuts at some point, or are we just supposed to believe all this will pay for itself and regulation cuts will send GDP soaring?  Trump needs a better playbook than the one that worked in 2016 when national debt was much lower, regulation more onerous, and tax cuts had a more beneficial impact to his voters.     

[reeshau]

I'm increasingly of the opinion we are about to see that there is a de facto "fourth branch of government" in the United States and it is intermediate and long term bond investors.  Moreso if they hold government debt.  People are going to notice real quick if the new oligarch's policies are met with bond selling (increasing long term interest rates). 

That's exactly what happened to Liz Truss and the Conservatives in the UK.  Only, the US government can't immediately collapse; our election clock keeps its time.

[Just Joe]

...  The peanut gallery was promised cheap eggs and gas.  They are not going to get it in my opinion, exactly the opposite.
...

I think that peanut gallery is in for a long four years.  Having a slow moving, internally conflicted government is a good thing sometimes.  When Trump's answer to bringing down prices has been a couple throw away lines demanding OPEC to 'do him a solid and stop hurting his feelings'.  The rest of his promises apparently hinged on that, because then he can demand lower interest rates, oh and by the way, that'll also hurt Russia enough that they'll come to the table and end the Ukraine invasion... 

Meanwhile, everything else he actually is doing is going to explode the national debt, like cutting taxes, deporting everyone in the most expensive and productivity destroying way possible, and pursuing investments like AI, Crypto, buying Greenland, acquiring the Panama Canal...  Will their actually be offsetting cuts at some point, or are we just supposed to believe all this will pay for itself and regulation cuts will send GDP soaring?  Trump needs a better playbook than the one that worked in 2016 when national debt was much lower, regulation more onerous, and tax cuts had a more beneficial impact to his voters.   

So is this the longer version of pump and dump?

[jrhampt]

Am I the only one who thinks gas is already incredibly cheap and has been so for the past several years?  Over the past few years it’s stayed between under $3/gallon to slightly over $3/ gallon in my state.  I can fill my tank for around $20 usually, and I only need to fill up once every 6 weeks or so.  In what world is that expensive? There’s been very little inflation of gas prices. 

[SunnyDays]

US gas is certainly cheaper than in my province, where it’s currently 1.56/litre or almost $6/American gallon.  And we are one of the cheaper provinces.  I fill my car roughly monthly when it’s about 1/4 full and pay about $45 CAD.  I don’t drive a lot and most of it is highway driving, so I’m okay with our prices.  We recently had a “tax holiday” for 6 months when the price was only 1.25/litre.

[twinstudy]

Am I the only one who thinks gas is already incredibly cheap and has been so for the past several years?  Over the past few years it’s stayed between under $3/gallon to slightly over $3/ gallon in my state.  I can fill my tank for around $20 usually, and I only need to fill up once every 6 weeks or so.  In what world is that expensive? There’s been very little inflation of gas prices.

I think fuel and all consumable resources are too cheap generally. Would prefer to see taxes which raise the price by 2x or 3x to dissuade consumption.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Am I the only one who thinks gas is already incredibly cheap and has been so for the past several years?  Over the past few years it’s stayed between under $3/gallon to slightly over $3/ gallon in my state.  I can fill my tank for around $20 usually, and I only need to fill up once every 6 weeks or so.  In what world is that expensive? There’s been very little inflation of gas prices.

I think fuel and all consumable resources are too cheap generally. Would prefer to see taxes which raise the price by 2x or 3x to dissuade consumption.

I’m not saying Europe does everything right, but they do use taxation more effectively.  They use the word sustainable without treating it like a four letter word…

[reeshau]

Am I the only one who thinks gas is already incredibly cheap and has been so for the past several years?  Over the past few years it’s stayed between under $3/gallon to slightly over $3/ gallon in my state.  I can fill my tank for around $20 usually, and I only need to fill up once every 6 weeks or so.  In what world is that expensive? There’s been very little inflation of gas prices.

I think fuel and all consumable resources are too cheap generally. Would prefer to see taxes which raise the price by 2x or 3x to dissuade consumption.

I’m not saying Europe does everything right, but they do use taxation more effectively.  They use the word sustainable without treating it like a four letter word…

I agree it's much more effective than CAFE standards.  It was easy to get used to a Ford Ranger as a "big pickup truck."  Then you would see a tow truck, the only kind of F-150 in Ireland, and it looked gigantic!

I also once saw a Hummer 2 tring to navigate the Champs Elysees and the traffic circle around the Arc de Triumph.  On the one hand, it could technically crush anything around it.  On the other hand, it might *accidentally* crush anything around it.  The driver was clearly uncomfortable, and I'm sure they had terrible visibility of the city cars around them.  And probably all the other drivers letting them know how ridiculous they were.

A lot of truck culture is relative.

[Morning Glory]

Am I the only one who thinks gas is already incredibly cheap and has been so for the past several years?  Over the past few years it’s stayed between under $3/gallon to slightly over $3/ gallon in my state.  I can fill my tank for around $20 usually, and I only need to fill up once every 6 weeks or so.  In what world is that expensive? There’s been very little inflation of gas prices.

I think fuel and all consumable resources are too cheap generally. Would prefer to see taxes which raise the price by 2x or 3x to dissuade consumption.

It won't fly with either party here. Conservatives because perceived rurality (I learned that term from city nerd) and toxic masculinity,  and liberals because the lack of other transportation options makes it a regressive tax.

[Fru-Gal]

https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/1ib831t/philip_low_longtime_friend_and_peer_of_elon_musk/

Excellent take down/analysis of Musk’s Nazi salutes and purposes in trying to control the Nazi wing of the MAGA party. Very important read, and a unique take on what Musk hoped would happen (and didn’t) when he did two Nazi salutes at the inauguration. Author is Philip Low, billionaire founder of NeuroVigil.

[reeshau]

https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/1ib831t/philip_low_longtime_friend_and_peer_of_elon_musk/

Excellent take down/analysis of Musk’s Nazi salutes and purposes in trying to control the Nazi wing of the MAGA party. Very important read, and a unique take on what Musk hoped would happen (and didn’t) when he did two Nazi salutes at the inauguration. Author is Philip Low, billionaire founder of NeuroVigil.

So, Howard Hughes, then; not Thomas Edison.

Or, maybe Henry Ford is the right comparison.

This is not the only successful, former friend to speak out about the current version of Elon.  Although, describing him as transactional helps explain why he and Trump would get along,

[Herbert Derp]

https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/1ib831t/philip_low_longtime_friend_and_peer_of_elon_musk/

Excellent take down/analysis of Musk’s Nazi salutes and purposes in trying to control the Nazi wing of the MAGA party. Very important read, and a unique take on what Musk hoped would happen (and didn’t) when he did two Nazi salutes at the inauguration. Author is Philip Low, billionaire founder of NeuroVigil.

Interesting theory. For the record, I also think that Elon did the Nazi salute on purpose. But I think he did it to trigger the left and make them lose their shit. The whole “Republicans are Nazis” narrative hasn’t exactly worked out well for the left, and the more unhinged they look, the more it seems to work in the Republicans’ favor.

When you look at it this way, the left certainly fell for Elon’s bait. I’ve never seen them get this triggered since the George Floyd incident! As to whether it is actually worth it to trigger the left in this way, I’m not sure. There are a lot of negatives for Elon here. Certainly it makes him come off as more crazy and unhinged in my eyes.

Along these lines, I also think Trump made his comments about Elon and the voting machines in Pennsylvania on purpose. He wants the left to be consumed by conspiracy theories, because it makes them look unhinged and hypocritical.

[Captain FIRE]

@Herbert Derp I find it really difficult to focus on the substance of your argument when you refer to George Floyd as an incident, which seems to greatly trivialize his murder.

[GuitarStv]

https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/1ib831t/philip_low_longtime_friend_and_peer_of_elon_musk/

Excellent take down/analysis of Musk’s Nazi salutes and purposes in trying to control the Nazi wing of the MAGA party. Very important read, and a unique take on what Musk hoped would happen (and didn’t) when he did two Nazi salutes at the inauguration. Author is Philip Low, billionaire founder of NeuroVigil.

Interesting theory. For the record, I also think that Elon did the Nazi salute on purpose. But I think he did it to trigger the left and make them lose their shit. The whole “Republicans are Nazis” narrative hasn’t exactly worked out well for the left, and the more unhinged they look, the more it seems to work in the Republicans’ favor.

In your opinion, how should people respond to powerful figures closely connected to the leadership of the US government making references to Nazism?  Do you think that it should be laughed off and not treated seriously (and if so, what other fascist/racist gestures and comments do you find funny)?

[EscapeVelocity2020]

@Herbert Derp I find it really difficult to focus on the substance of your argument when you refer to George Floyd as an incident, which seems to greatly trivialize his murder.

I also read it as 'Floyd was just an incident to trigger the left' which made me throw up in my mouth.  Has social media lobotomized people to the point that they think the world is just about 'triggering' people and laughing at their response? 

Ultimately, all of these 'silly attempts to trigger those not in my tribe' build up to real world consequences.  I'm fully expecting more domestic terrorism and unrest.  Hopefully I'm wrong and I'll be pleasantly surprised otherwise.

[LaineyAZ]

https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/1ib831t/philip_low_longtime_friend_and_peer_of_elon_musk/

Excellent take down/analysis of Musk’s Nazi salutes and purposes in trying to control the Nazi wing of the MAGA party. Very important read, and a unique take on what Musk hoped would happen (and didn’t) when he did two Nazi salutes at the inauguration. Author is Philip Low, billionaire founder of NeuroVigil.

Thanks for posting, very interesting insider take from one of his peers.

[sonofsven]

Likely scenario: there will be another Gorge Floyd "incident" (aka murder.
There will be loud protests.
The private militias will move in and attempt to "restore order" (aka shoot protesters).
Basically, right wing domestic terrorism is what we have to look forward to.

[sixwings]

Likely scenario: there will be another Gorge Floyd "incident" (aka murder.
There will be loud protests.
The private militias will move in and attempt to "restore order" (aka shoot protesters).
Basically, right wing domestic terrorism is what we have to look forward to.

Well, these protesters have guns too. I'm not sure why people think they don't/won't. It will probably be very, very bad. Trump is speed running breaking the union.

[Herbert Derp]

In your opinion, how should people respond to powerful figures closely connected to the leadership of the US government making references to Nazism?  Do you think that it should be laughed off and not treated seriously (and if so, what other fascist/racist gestures and comments do you find funny)?

I also read it as 'Floyd was just an incident to trigger the left' which made me throw up in my mouth.  Has social media lobotomized people to the point that they think the world is just about 'triggering' people and laughing at their response?

I don’t think it should be laughed off and not treated seriously. Elon is using propaganda to manipulate people across the world. Considering how unhinged he has become, I don’t trust him to do the right thing. I think he’s losing his mind.

And I don’t think that calling something out as propaganda makes it silly or trivial. There is a real impact here. For instance, I believe the Chinese used pro-Palestine propaganda on TikTok to suppress the Democratic vote and help Trump get elected. I was warning people for years about how dangerous TikTok was, and nobody took me seriously, and then China actually went and used their propaganda mind control machine to get Donald Trump elected.

And for the record, the series of events surrounding George Floyd’s murder, whatever you want to call them, traumatized me and were a key factor for why I left the United States and never want to come back. I absolutely take it seriously.

[GuitarStv]

https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/1ib831t/philip_low_longtime_friend_and_peer_of_elon_musk/

Excellent take down/analysis of Musk’s Nazi salutes and purposes in trying to control the Nazi wing of the MAGA party. Very important read, and a unique take on what Musk hoped would happen (and didn’t) when he did two Nazi salutes at the inauguration. Author is Philip Low, billionaire founder of NeuroVigil.

Interesting theory. For the record, I also think that Elon did the Nazi salute on purpose. But I think he did it to trigger the left and make them lose their shit. The whole “Republicans are Nazis” narrative hasn’t exactly worked out well for the left, and the more unhinged they look, the more it seems to work in the Republicans’ favor.

In your opinion, how should people respond to powerful figures closely connected to the leadership of the US government making references to Nazism?  Do you think that it should be laughed off and not treated seriously (and if so, what other fascist/racist gestures and comments do you find funny)?

I don’t think it should be laughed off and not treated seriously. Elon is using propaganda to manipulate people across the world. Considering how unhinged he has become, I don’t trust him to do the right thing. I think he’s losing his mind.

And I don’t think that calling something out as propaganda makes it silly or trivial.

OK.  You believe that Elon Musk is using Nazi symbols in front of crowds to manipulate people as a propaganda effort.

Can you explain how your being triggered by Musk's action is different from anyone else?  How is your response any less unhinged than the response you're seeing others take?  Most of what I've seen in commentary about his purposeful Nazi salute was a general mild condemnation and concern that it will continue and build from here.  That doesn't sound miles away from what you're saying.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

In your opinion, how should people respond to powerful figures closely connected to the leadership of the US government making references to Nazism?  Do you think that it should be laughed off and not treated seriously (and if so, what other fascist/racist gestures and comments do you find funny)?

I also read it as 'Floyd was just an incident to trigger the left' which made me throw up in my mouth.  Has social media lobotomized people to the point that they think the world is just about 'triggering' people and laughing at their response?

I don’t think it should be laughed off and not treated seriously. Elon is using propaganda to manipulate people across the world. Considering how unhinged he has become, I don’t trust him to do the right thing. I think he’s losing his mind.

And I don’t think that calling something out as propaganda makes it silly or trivial. There is a real impact here. For instance, I believe the Chinese used pro-Palestine propaganda on TikTok to suppress the Democratic vote and help Trump get elected. I was warning people for years about how dangerous TikTok was, and nobody took me seriously, and then China actually went and used their propaganda mind control machine to get Donald Trump elected.

And for the record, the series of events surrounding George Floyd’s murder, whatever you want to call them, traumatized me and were a key factor for why I left the United States and never want to come back. I absolutely take it seriously.

Thank you for clarifying, it's always difficult to understand each other over the internet, and you do make valid points.

[Herbert Derp]

OK.  You believe that Elon Musk is using Nazi symbols in front of crowds to manipulate people as a propaganda effort.

Can you explain how your being triggered by Musk's action is different from anyone else?

From my point of view, if your reaction to Elon’s antics is to get super triggered and accuse Elon and the Republicans as being literal Nazis, then you’re playing right into Elon’s hands. I think he was intentionally trolling you. He wants you to get triggered in this way.

Again, the “Republicans are Nazis/Racists/White Supremacists” narrative has not helped the left. This narrative was pushed for years and didn’t do anything to sway public opinion or stop Trump from being elected.

The vast majority of people on the right don’t actually believe they are Nazis/Racists/White Supremacists, and people in the center don’t seem to buy the narrative either.

Elon knows all of this, which is why he is baiting the left to take up positions which harm them. So if you are taking the bait, you are literally becoming Elon’s pawn. That’s the difference.

Personally, I try my best to identify propaganda wherever it exists and keep my mind as free as possible.

[Herbert Derp]

I think you should read the analysis I posted upthread written by a billionaire investor who was a friend and coworker to Musk. His point about the Nazi salute is that Elon probably hoped there would be salutes back to him. When that didn’t happen, it fucked up his attempt to control the Nazi arm of the MAGAs by signaling he was chief troll and one of them. He goes into some detail of what Musk is aiming for with Trump’s cabinet, etc. and which MAGAs he’s feuding with.

I did read Phillip Low’s take, and if you understand what I’m saying, you’ll see that I am broadly aligned with him. The main difference is that I think Low is missing the point about Elon trolling the left, and also I think it’s unlikely that Elon thought the crowd would perform a mass Nazi salute. Because the vast majority of people on the right don’t believe they are Nazis and don’t approve of Nazism.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

As an aside, George Floyd and officer Derek Chauvin knew each other.  Police officers often need to earn extra income, and Chauvin worked as a bouncer - at the same place George Floyd worked.  Where George Floyd always calmed situations down, Chauvin was always making them worse.  When Chauvin was fired, he blamed George Floyd.  The two knew each other, and Chauvin hated George Floyd's guts.  It wasn't random or an accident that he knelt on Floyd's neck - it was revenge.  But it is still racist to think he could get away with murdering a Black man.

[Ron Scott]

As an aside, George Floyd and officer Derek Chauvin knew each other.  Police officers often need to earn extra income, and Chauvin worked as a bouncer - at the same place George Floyd worked.  Where George Floyd always calmed situations down, Chauvin was always making them worse.  When Chauvin was fired, he blamed George Floyd.  The two knew each other, and Chauvin hated George Floyd's guts.  It wasn't random or an accident that he knelt on Floyd's neck - it was revenge.  But it is still racist to think he could get away with murdering a Black man.

I did not know this. I thought what made these kinds if incidents “hate crimes” or racially motivated was the accused’s intent to harm based on the color of the victim’s  skin, religion, etc., and was not charged if the crime was due more to a vendetta.

(I also wish we’d stop using the word “race” as if there were multiple races of humans.)

[MustacheAndaHalf]

As an aside, George Floyd and officer Derek Chauvin knew each other.  Police officers often need to earn extra income, and Chauvin worked as a bouncer - at the same place George Floyd worked.  Where George Floyd always calmed situations down, Chauvin was always making them worse.  When Chauvin was fired, he blamed George Floyd.  The two knew each other, and Chauvin hated George Floyd's guts.  It wasn't random or an accident that he knelt on Floyd's neck - it was revenge.  But it is still racist to think he could get away with murdering a Black man.

I did not know this. I thought what made these kinds if incidents “hate crimes” or racially motivated was the accused’s intent to harm based on the color of the victim’s  skin, religion, etc., and was not charged if the crime was due more to a vendetta.

(I also wish we’d stop using the word “race” as if there were multiple races of humans.)

You can also see it in the sequence of events at the scene: George Floyd quietly sitting on the curb, handcuffed.  Officer Chauvin arrives, and pushes Floyd into the back of a police car.  Chauvin says something to Floyd, and Floyd starts struggling and thrashing.  That struggling - which was caused by Chauvin - gave Chauvin the excuse to pin Floyd.

Perhaps "race" can be discussed in a separate thread, but if you are Republican and claiming race is a social construct, you might be a Democrat now.

[partgypsy]

I and everyone in the entire federal government got an email this morning inviting us ALL to resign. deferred resignation effective september 25. That this applies to everyone except USPS, immigration, and the military.
And that if we do not take this offer, and let it expire, we have no guarantee of employment after that date.

I have heard that it is written very similar to the twitter email form letter for resignation.

I don't know what to do. I have worked in research for the past 20+ years. Even if I leave the government (which I do not want to do), if all federal grants are paused and funding cut, I do not believe I can find a job that uses my skills and experience. 
My daughter is graduating college and was intending on a career in research. I don't know if she will be able to do this, given the current situation.

I feel heartsick.

[FIRE@50]

I and everyone in the entire federal government got an email this morning inviting us ALL to resign. deferred resignation effective september 25. That this applies to everyone except USPS, immigration, and the military.
And that if we do not take this offer, and let it expire, we have no guarantee of employment after that date.

I have heard that it is written very similar to the twitter email form letter for resignation.

I don't know what to do. I have worked in research for the past 20+ years. Even if I leave the government (which I do not want to do), if all federal grants are paused and funding cut, I do not believe I can find a job using my skills and experience either.  My daughter is graduating college and was intending on a career in research. I don't know if she will be able to do this either, given the current situation.

I feel heartsick.

I'm sorry to hear about this. I don't know what the best advice is. It just makes me think that I need to be a lot more serious about the FI side of FIRE so that I'm better prepared for a scenario like this.

Good luck with the path that you choose.

[Fru-Gal]

I think you should read the analysis I posted upthread written by a billionaire investor who was a friend and coworker to Musk. His point about the Nazi salute is that Elon probably hoped there would be salutes back to him. When that didn’t happen, it fucked up his attempt to control the Nazi arm of the MAGAs by signaling he was chief troll and one of them. He goes into some detail of what Musk is aiming for with Trump’s cabinet, etc. and which MAGAs he’s feuding with.

I did read Phillip Low’s take, and if you understand what I’m saying, you’ll see that I am broadly aligned with him. The main difference is that I think Low is missing the point about Elon trolling the left, and also I think it’s unlikely that Elon thought the crowd would perform a mass Nazi salute. Because the vast majority of people on the right don’t believe they are Nazis and don’t approve of Nazism.

He was much more specific than that in his theory. He DID NOT SAY HE WAS A NAZI, in fact he said he was not. He was saying that Musk was doing multiple things:

—trolling, which up to now has been successful in keeping him at the top of all news cycles and inflating his net worth
—saying fuck you to everyone in America just like he said fuck you to all his advertisers on his ad-driven platform
—trying to assert dominance/attract THE NAZI WING OF THE MAGA PARTY because he was angry over his cabinet picks being rejected

Anyone saying there are no Nazis in the MAGA party is fooling themselves. Sure they’re not all of them, or most of them. But they are there and we saw them being coddled the first term too.

[FrugalToque]

Vivek Ramaswamy
@VivekGRamaswamy

The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans isn’t because of an innate American IQ deficit (a lazy & wrong explanation). A key part of it comes down to the c-word: culture. Tough questions demand tough answers & if we’re really serious about fixing the problem, we have to confront the TRUTH:

Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long (at least since the 90s and likely longer). That doesn’t start in college, it starts YOUNG.

A culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math olympiad champ, or the jock over the valedictorian, will not produce the best engineers.

This is like reading an Ayn Rand novel:  80% "yes" and then "Oh, god no. Wtf?"


Yes there's a problem in the U.S. and Canada where we cared more about sports heroes and class clowns than geniuses.  Absolutely.
China has this figured out. Their kids see amazing skills on TikTok while ours see dumb-ass stunts and car crashes.


But the solution isn't math tutors and more homework. It's investing in daily education
We did "make them do homework" in the 1960s and we've kept doing it and it doesn't work.


Find an actual solution that people have actually used.
Care about - and fund - something at your high school besides the football team and it's twelve coaches and twenty brain-damaging concussions per year.


But don't pretend homework will fix this.

[Fru-Gal]

This is what abusers do. They cross boundaries repeatedly. Eventually the victims become inured to their escalating actions, the Overton window shifts, and now what is acceptable baseline behavior is something that would have been shocking if done initially.

Enablers gaslight the victim into believing things aren’t that bad, because the enablers are benefiting from the system or too comfortable to fight it.

We forget this is shocking at our own peril. To think that Trump is repeatedly threatening to take territory of sovereign nations in the first days of his presidency— to me that is the most shocking thing. It is an outright escalation of rhetoric from his first term.

[achvfi]

I and everyone in the entire federal government got an email this morning inviting us ALL to resign. deferred resignation effective september 25. That this applies to everyone except USPS, immigration, and the military.
And that if we do not take this offer, and let it expire, we have no guarantee of employment after that date.

I have heard that it is written very similar to the twitter email form letter for resignation.

I don't know what to do. I have worked in research for the past 20+ years. Even if I leave the government (which I do not want to do), if all federal grants are paused and funding cut, I do not believe I can find a job that uses my skills and experience. 
My daughter is graduating college and was intending on a career in research. I don't know if she will be able to do this, given the current situation.

I feel heartsick.

Sorry you have to go through this. I can imagine hundreds of thousands of employees and their families going through uncertainty these sick fucks are causing to the country. I think contagion will spread to other areas.

Hang in there and don't take any drastic actions. While there is much uncertainty there is some chance attention from this will switch to something else. After next mid terms Trump will be a lame duck, I think that is why they are all going full speed to dismantle government.

[PeteD01]

The funding freeze appears to have blown up in their face already:

Trump administration rescinds funding freeze directive, memo shows
The decision caused chaos for agencies across the country.
Katherine Faulders, Peter Charalambous, Alexander Mallin, and Benjamin Siegel
Wednesday, January 29, 2025 1:25PM

WASHINGTON -- Donald Trump's administration has rescinded its sweeping directive that sought to pause potentially trillions in loans, grants and financial assistance, according to a memo obtained by ABC News.

"OMB memorandum M-25-13 is rescinded," the short memo from Matthew Vaeth, the acting director of the Office of Management and Budget, reads. "If you have questions about implementing the President's Executive Orders, please contact your agency General Counsel."

The policy reversal follows a tumultuous 48 hours for the White House, as states and local governments raised concerns that funding for health care, law enforcement, disaster aid and infrastructure spending could be paused or delayed during the expansive rollout of the policy.

https://abc7ny.com/post/white-house-budget-office-rescinds-order-federal-grant-freeze-sparked-widespread-confusion/15846698/