Author Topic: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt  (Read 15517 times)

PeteD01

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #100 on: January 14, 2025, 07:28:18 AM »
Seth Meyers on the Musk MAGA war - it's funny and the best part is Bannon talking about the oligarchs (6:12 - 6:58).
Steve Bannon actually knows his shit and is well aware that oligarchs are easy targets.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za0E2uPauwc
« Last Edit: January 14, 2025, 07:30:50 AM by PeteD01 »

PeteD01

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #101 on: January 14, 2025, 08:37:47 AM »
Some context to what Steve Bannon is doing (and has been waiting for to do).
A primer to oligarchy:

Why Oligarchy Falls (And How to Speed It Up)
Legendary Lore

What happens in the moments before power changes hands? History shows us fascinating patterns that keep repeating, from ancient Greece to modern times. While Aristotle might seem like just another philosopher from the past, his deep study of political systems revealed something curious about how power works - and fails.

This investigation goes beyond politics. It's about understanding the hidden mechanisms that shape our world, the subtle signs that precede major changes, and the surprising way that strength can become weakness. We'll explore why the most dramatic revolutions often produce the worst outcomes, and how real, lasting change tends to happen when almost no one is watching
.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlbJtgYEM1U

Morning Glory

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #102 on: January 14, 2025, 08:52:38 AM »
I would consider that anything that pisses off MAGA types is likely to be good policy. Making them all unemployed would be good policy.

So they'll have even more time on their hands to self-radicalize on YouTube and form armed mobs?

Fru-Gal

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #103 on: January 14, 2025, 10:10:16 AM »
I so appreciate the content you post, @PeteD01

That was the longest AI narrated video I ever watched lol.

twinstudy

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #104 on: January 14, 2025, 11:30:48 AM »
I would consider that anything that pisses off MAGA types is likely to be good policy. Making them all unemployed would be good policy.

So they'll have even more time on their hands to self-radicalize on YouTube and form armed mobs?

Ideally there is something community sector related that could be done, like charity work in exchange for government benefits. Something positive and constructive.

Much better than the alternative, which is not so much armed mobs - I doubt there's that level of organisation - I think it would be opioids and the like.

Fru-Gal

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #105 on: January 14, 2025, 11:36:06 AM »
There were many great comments on that video but one I liked a lot said

Quote
Almost all the incremental changes have been going *toward* Oligarchy, not away from it.  Create a website with forums for your local irl neighborhood; talk crime watch, schooling, carpooling, etc.  Create community to oppose their atomization of society.

Makes me think about how we can and should work with open source versions of LLMs and other AI, create our own networks/forums/websites and IRL meetings.

The “atomization of society” really stood out to me. And it’s the aggregators who win.

jrhampt

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #106 on: January 14, 2025, 11:45:29 AM »
I would consider that anything that pisses off MAGA types is likely to be good policy. Making them all unemployed would be good policy.

So they'll have even more time on their hands to self-radicalize on YouTube and form armed mobs?

Ideally there is something community sector related that could be done, like charity work in exchange for government benefits. Something positive and constructive.

Much better than the alternative, which is not so much armed mobs - I doubt there's that level of organisation - I think it would be opioids and the like.

Ha.  There are already plenty of armed mobs calling themselves "militias" and "sovereign citizens", along with the Proud Boys etc right wing mobs that broke into the Capitol on January 6th.  So yeah, I consider armed mobs to be more likely than something positive and constructive.

ChpBstrd

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #107 on: January 14, 2025, 12:20:48 PM »
There were many great comments on that video but one I liked a lot said

Quote
Almost all the incremental changes have been going *toward* Oligarchy, not away from it.  Create a website with forums for your local irl neighborhood; talk crime watch, schooling, carpooling, etc.  Create community to oppose their atomization of society.

Makes me think about how we can and should work with open source versions of LLMs and other AI, create our own networks/forums/websites and IRL meetings.

The “atomization of society” really stood out to me. And it’s the aggregators who win.
I think it's clear the AIs will be owned and operated by the oligarchs. The only way to resist their control over your mind is to resort back to old-school information sources like word of mouth received in physically meeting communities and a good library of old paper books. We should also seek out opportunities to pay boots-on-the-ground local journalists who broadcast the same, accurate, information to everyone.

The next internet forum (e.g. bluesky.social) is not going to fix this, and neither is the next AI. We should know that. It's funny how our first instinct is to rush right back into the root source of so many of our democracy's problems, rather than rejecting the whole AI-fed social media substitute-for-journalism and substitute-for-social-life format that atomized and misled us in the first place.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2025, 12:22:59 PM by ChpBstrd »

Fru-Gal

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #108 on: January 14, 2025, 01:28:37 PM »
I agree that the next federated social media forum is not going to help. But what we’ve seen so far is that tools are used for good and bad and they don’t go away, barring a cataclysm. I think people are both underestimating and overestimating AI. But we cannot deny the democratization of tools to the little people. This is why individuals have more power now than they’ve ever had in the history of modern civilization.

I also keep on throwing out this theme that nobody really bites on which is that money is not as valuable anymore. Both in a literal sense (quantitative easing) and in terms of what is, for all intents and purposes, UBI: the access to technology, abundant food, and fairly universal infrastructure. This is why oligarchs need to make themselves so visible and tangled in all our affairs. They need to constantly remind us of their power.

They also need to drum up jingoism and patriotism and xenophobia and other divisive concepts because they do not belong to single countries. They are global oligarchs.

And at the other end of the society, it’s why people can more comfortably live on the street or in an RV: they can now have solar power, powerful miniature computers, media, Internet service, etc. You might say that’s insensitive to say, but where I live, I regularly see people in homeless encampments with laptops, high-powered lights, solar panels, antennas, you name it. (Now a number of these people are also addicted to fentanyl and that’s another story.)

For years I’ve been saying that after occupy Wall Street, we were seeing a rise of nomadism. And you know you saw it among wealthy and middle class people as much as you saw it among the poor.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2025, 01:36:30 PM by Fru-Gal »

PeteD01

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #109 on: January 16, 2025, 05:31:05 AM »
Just released:


DOGE Delusions: A Real-World Plan to Reject Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy's Misguided Agenda, Crack Down on Corporate Handouts, Tax the Rich, and Invest for the Future.
January 15, 2025
This study was written by Public Citizen President Robert Weissman, with input and editing from Rick Claypool, Susan Harley, Bill Hartung, Eagan Kemp, Steve Knievel, Peter Maybarduk and Alan Zibel.

Public Citizen is a national non-profit organization with more than 500,000 members and supporters. We represent consumer interests through lobbying, litigation, administrative advocacy, research, and public education on a broad range of issues including consumer rights in the marketplace, product safety, financial regulation, worker safety, safe and affordable health care, campaign finance reform and government ethics, fair trade, climate change, and corporate and government accountability.

What Real Efficiency Looks Like

This report identifies a series of policy interventions to save Americans hundreds of billions of dollars every year and to raise hundreds of billions more, every year:

Measures to reduce prescription drug prices can save $200 billion annually.

Ending privatized Medicare can save $100 billion annually, while improving quality of care.

Modest reductions to the Pentagon budget would save $100 billion every year; while more aggressive, evidence-based cuts could save $200 billion annually.

Ending tax subsidies and handouts to oil and gas corporations would save about $20 billion annually.

Fair taxes on the rich and corporations could raise $500 billion annually, or potentially much more, as compared with the baseline of the expected extension of the Trump tax cuts.


https://www.citizen.org/wp-content/uploads/doge-efficiency-public-citizen-report-2025.pdf
« Last Edit: January 16, 2025, 07:05:34 AM by PeteD01 »

LaineyAZ

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #110 on: January 16, 2025, 08:31:45 AM »
^ Thanks for this, PeteD01.   Public Citizen was founded by Ralph Nader and has been a fantastic champion for consumers.

I expect they may be the last organization standing after the Republicans dismantle the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

ChpBstrd

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #111 on: January 16, 2025, 09:14:44 AM »
We should understand that in the age of mass misinformation, achieving actual results in reality doesn't matter.

Obama deported millions more illegal immigrants than Trump during most years of his administration, yet Trump won the 2020 election on a claim that Obama-Biden left the borders wide open.

Biden oversaw the fastest fall in inflation in history, and some of the fastest economic growth in history, and yet Trump beat him on economic issues.

Democrats still do not understand that Republican control over the media means that Republicans can run on the issues where they are actually weakest, and create narratives of failure around Democrats' successes. Dems are pissing in the wind if they are still trying to win votes by delivering tangible progress. What they need to do is pivot to new communication methods to counter the pro-oligarchy Fox News, X, YouTube, TikTok, and Meta.

Ron Scott

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #112 on: January 16, 2025, 09:19:03 AM »
Just released:


DOGE Delusions: A Real-World Plan to Reject Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy's Misguided Agenda, Crack Down on Corporate Handouts, Tax the Rich, and Invest for the Future.
January 15, 2025
This study was written by Public Citizen President Robert Weissman, with input and editing from Rick Claypool, Susan Harley, Bill Hartung, Eagan Kemp, Steve Knievel, Peter Maybarduk and Alan Zibel.


What Real Efficiency Looks Like

This report identifies a series of policy interventions to save Americans hundreds of billions of dollars every year and to raise hundreds of billions more, every year:

Measures to reduce prescription drug prices can save $200 billion annually.

Ending privatized Medicare can save $100 billion annually, while improving quality of care.

Modest reductions to the Pentagon budget would save $100 billion every year; while more aggressive, evidence-based cuts could save $200 billion annually.

Ending tax subsidies and handouts to oil and gas corporations would save about $20 billion annually.

Fair taxes on the rich and corporations could raise $500 billion annually, or potentially much more, as compared with the baseline of the expected extension of the Trump tax cuts.



FWIW, here’s an alternative argument from Marc Andreessen, the tech investor and former huge Dem supporter going back to Clinton/Gore, Obama, and Hillary-for-President, who soured big time on Biden and is now a DOGE Insider with Musk.

Andreessen describes DOGE plans to reduce the size of government, and power tech achievement—pretty much without congress.  They hope to revive the techno-centric policies of Clinton and Gore. He provides interesting insight too on how Gore’s work in congress led to the internet as we now know it.

https://youtu.be/YqeI7iViRmE

I throw this out there because I believe it’s important to have a solid understanding of the perspectives of those you might disagree with. (I get antsy when I feel I’m drinking the same flavor Kool-Aid for too long. YMMV.)

Fru-Gal

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #113 on: January 16, 2025, 09:26:52 AM »
We should understand that in the age of mass misinformation, achieving actual results in reality doesn't matter.

Obama deported millions more illegal immigrants than Trump during most years of his administration, yet Trump won the 2020 election on a claim that Obama-Biden left the borders wide open.

Biden oversaw the fastest fall in inflation in history, and some of the fastest economic growth in history, and yet Trump beat him on economic issues.

Democrats still do not understand that Republican control over the media means that Republicans can run on the issues where they are actually weakest, and create narratives of failure around Democrats' successes. Dems are pissing in the wind if they are still trying to win votes by delivering tangible progress. What they need to do is pivot to new communication methods to counter the pro-oligarchy Fox News, X, YouTube, TikTok, and Meta.


Yea yes yes this is what I’ve been saying. So well put!!!

Well, actually… Lol both sides have always had this argument that one party controls the media. So I actually disagree with you that the diversity of citizen led outlets is bad. In my opinion, that part is really good. The bad part is the centralized control and other tricks to create narratives at massive scale.

When the Internet first started, we had the excitement of individuals creating webpages and forum such as this one. But the walled garden concept took off and social media was born. The social aspect is good. The control by oligarchs is bad, an ancient tactic.

I see a future where we go back to the diversity of websites as people become more and more disenchanted with centralized social media (which in some countries, are controlled by the government).

The creation of HTML was our modern day printing press. Governments and the rich have been trying to control it ever since. And we consistently fall for their tricks instead of realizing the power that we now have with the tools available to us.

There are a number of makers who have great guidance for how to run your own mail servers, web servers, LLMs, etc. If we lose these abilities then I will really be concerned.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2025, 09:37:10 AM by Fru-Gal »

PeteD01

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #114 on: January 16, 2025, 04:15:04 PM »
Just released:


DOGE Delusions: A Real-World Plan to Reject Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy's Misguided Agenda, Crack Down on Corporate Handouts, Tax the Rich, and Invest for the Future.
January 15, 2025
This study was written by Public Citizen President Robert Weissman, with input and editing from Rick Claypool, Susan Harley, Bill Hartung, Eagan Kemp, Steve Knievel, Peter Maybarduk and Alan Zibel.


What Real Efficiency Looks Like

This report identifies a series of policy interventions to save Americans hundreds of billions of dollars every year and to raise hundreds of billions more, every year:

Measures to reduce prescription drug prices can save $200 billion annually.

Ending privatized Medicare can save $100 billion annually, while improving quality of care.

Modest reductions to the Pentagon budget would save $100 billion every year; while more aggressive, evidence-based cuts could save $200 billion annually.

Ending tax subsidies and handouts to oil and gas corporations would save about $20 billion annually.

Fair taxes on the rich and corporations could raise $500 billion annually, or potentially much more, as compared with the baseline of the expected extension of the Trump tax cuts.



FWIW, here’s an alternative argument from Marc Andreessen, the tech investor and former huge Dem supporter going back to Clinton/Gore, Obama, and Hillary-for-President, who soured big time on Biden and is now a DOGE Insider with Musk.

Andreessen describes DOGE plans to reduce the size of government, and power tech achievement—pretty much without congress.  They hope to revive the techno-centric policies of Clinton and Gore. He provides interesting insight too on how Gore’s work in congress led to the internet as we now know it.

https://youtu.be/YqeI7iViRmE

I throw this out there because I believe it’s important to have a solid understanding of the perspectives of those you might disagree with. (I get antsy when I feel I’m drinking the same flavor Kool-Aid for too long. YMMV.)

The video you are linking to is about the cringiest things I've tried to watch recently - fortunately, there is a transcript so one doesn't have suffer through watching this (scroll down to below the video and there it is):

https://www.hoover.org/research/marc-andreessen-its-morning-again-america?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=uk_youtube

The irony is that this inanity, coming from a guy who is so full of it combined with the insufferable obsequiousness and brown nosing of the interviewer that one gets worried if the diaper is going to hold, is hosted by the Hoover Institute which is named after the Great Depression president Herbert Hoover, who plunged the US into economic disaster with the help of his fellow oligarchs.

There is, however, a short section where Andreessen is quoting his essay "Techno Optimist Manifesto" in which he invokes esthetic sentiment in support of his project.
It's probably not surprising that there is nothing original about it as he is basically paraphrasing the "Manifesto of Futurism" by Filippo Tommaso Marinetti.

The Italian futurists were important culture warriors in the times preceding Mussolini's Italian fascism with which they aligned themselves.

The rest of the essay is essentially a clumsy defense of the position that a merger of oligarchic economic power and state power is what the country needs - fascism in a nutshell of course.

But see for yourself:

Marc Andreessen

Techno Optimist Manifesto

>> Peter Robinson: Mark, would you close our conversation by reading this excerpt from your essay, the Techno Optimist Manifesto?

>> Marc Andreessen: Love to. We believe in the romance of technology, of industry. The romance. The eros of the train, the car, the electric light, the skyscraper, the microchip, the neural network, the rocket, the split atom.

We believe in adventure. Undertaking the hero's journey, rebelling against the status quo, mapping uncharted territory, conquering dragons, and bringing home the spoils for our community. We believe that we have been and will always be the masters of technology, not mastered by technology. This is really key point today.

Victim mentality is a curse in every domain of life, including in our relationship with technology, both unnecessary and self-defeating. We are not victims, we are conquerors. We believe America and her allies should be strong and not weak. Economic, cultural, and military strength flow from technological strength. A technologically strong America is a force for good in a dangerous world.

We believe in greatness.



Marinetti said it way better, in an esthetic sense of course - but that's how it goes, farce and all:

Filippo Tommaso Marinetti

MANIFESTO OF FUTURISM

1. We want to sing the love of danger, the habit of energy and rashness.

2. The essential elements of our poetry will be courage, audacity and revolt.

3. Literature has up to now magnified pensive immobility, ecstasy and slumber. We want to exalt movements of aggression, feverish sleeplessness, the double march, the perilous leap, the slap and the blow with the fist.

4. We declare that the splendor of the world has been enriched by a new beauty: the beauty of speed. A racing automobile with its bonnet adorned with great tubes like serpents with explosive breath ... a roaring motor car which seems to run on machine-gun fire, is more beautiful than the Victory of Samothrace.

5. We want to sing the man at the wheel, the ideal axis of which crosses
the earth, itself hurled along its orbit.

6. The poet must spend himself with warmth, glamour and prodigality to increase the enthusiastic fervor of the primordial elements.

7. Beauty exists only in struggle. There is no masterpiece that has not an aggressive character. Poetry must be a violent assault on the forces of the unknown, to force them to bow before man.

8. We are on the extreme promontory of the centuries! What is the use of looking behind at the moment when we must open the mysterious shutters of the impossible? Time and Space died yesterday. We are already living in the absolute, since we have already created eternal, omnipresent speed.

9. We want to glorify war - the only cure for the world - militarism, patriotism, the destructive gesture of the anarchists, the beautiful ideas which kill, and contempt for woman.

10. We want to demolish museums and libraries, fight morality, feminism and all opportunist and utilitarian cowardice.

11. We will sing of the great crowds agitated by work, pleasure and revolt;the multi colored and polyphonic surf of revolutions in modern capitals: the nocturnal vibration of the arsenals and the workshops beneath their  violent electric moons: the gluttonous railway stations devouring smoking serpents; factories suspended from the clouds by the thread of their smoke; bridges with the leap of gymnasts flung across the diabolic cutlery of sunny rivers: adventurous steamers sniffing the horizon; great-breasted locomotives, puffing on the rails like enormous steel horses with long tubes for bridle, and the gliding flight of aeroplanes whose propeller sounds like the flapping of a flag and the applause of enthusiastic crowds.

https://www.societyforasianart.org/sites/default/files/manifesto_futurista.pdf

lhamo

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #115 on: January 16, 2025, 04:33:23 PM »
Mr. Andreesen needs to go back to college and take some writing courses.  And maybe some study some history and social science theory.  Writing that poor/uninformed would have gotten a D in any of the classes I took going all the way back to high school. 

Go see Babygirl if you want a creative/thought-provoking take on any of the stuff he is talking about.

Ron Scott

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #116 on: January 17, 2025, 11:27:39 AM »
You didn’t hear a lot of criticism from Dems when Clinton and Gore were Big Tech’s biggest cheerleaders (Gore really did make the Internet what it is today!) and the Silicon Valley crowd were spending billions on Obama and Hillary. Now the liberal sarcasm against tech is so thick you can cut it with a knife…and their obedient media lackeys are ready to have them tarred and feathered. (“Hey assholes: You wonder why you’re losing…? THANK YOU JOE!)

There’s a dumb line of reasoning out there these days too about “legislative capture”, that somehow BIG BAD BUSINESS (to borrow a line from the hippies) pays off our elected officials to do their bidding. Bullshit. The D and R party leaders are the ones who have captured the legislature and put it up for grabs by the highest bidder. Whenever you see a party line vote—which is almost ALL THE TIME—you know it’s not individual businesses paying off individual senators and house reps, it’s their bosses cracking the whip and scaring them about being primaried.

For losing a slam dunk election to Trump and alienating the most important business block in American history THAT THEY OWNED FOR THREE DECADES, the current crop of Dems should be shot.

I’ve voted D my whole life and I’ve never been so sick over their incompetence and failures.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2025, 11:29:26 AM by Ron Scott »

Fireball

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #117 on: January 17, 2025, 12:19:07 PM »
You didn’t hear a lot of criticism from Dems when Clinton and Gore were Big Tech’s biggest cheerleaders (Gore really did make the Internet what it is today!) and the Silicon Valley crowd were spending billions on Obama and Hillary.

To be fair, the Tech sector's size and influence has grown quite dramatically in the near 20 years since Obama first ran, or even the 10 years since Hillary did. There are many issues today that need to be addressed that weren't a blip on the radar at the time. I do understand your point, however.

Ron Scott

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #118 on: January 17, 2025, 12:42:26 PM »
You didn’t hear a lot of criticism from Dems when Clinton and Gore were Big Tech’s biggest cheerleaders (Gore really did make the Internet what it is today!) and the Silicon Valley crowd were spending billions on Obama and Hillary.

To be fair, the Tech sector's size and influence has grown quite dramatically in the near 20 years since Obama first ran, or even the 10 years since Hillary did. There are many issues today that need to be addressed that weren't a blip on the radar at the time. I do understand your point, however.

I am frustrated by what I consider the incompetence of the Dems because I have been a supporter for so long but yeah, I do see nuance here too.

I’m also scratching my head about the flip-flop between the parties on free speech. Hear much about “Net Neutrality” these days? Is it Animal Farm time?


ChpBstrd

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #119 on: January 17, 2025, 01:20:20 PM »
I’m also scratching my head about the flip-flop between the parties on free speech. Hear much about “Net Neutrality” these days? Is it Animal Farm time?
I think it's Nineteen Eighty Four time.

Big tech has kissed the ring for whichever party has been in control of government. That essentially makes them tools for governments, or employees of politicians. Alphabet, Meta, Apple, and X have essentially replaced unruly journalists who would not tow the party line with a new information source that is subservient to politicians. Social media is thus, essentially, a part of the government. Our screens explain the ever-changing truth to us, and it is taboo to disbelieve.

TikTok will be banned or fire-sold this weekend as a demonstration of the politicians' wrath, and because it was unallowable for its owners to be out of retaliatory reach. Mark Zuckerberg was quick to fall in line before becoming a target of the ruling party, but he cut it close. As America heads in a more Russian direction, Zuck would be wise to avoid tall buildings or air travel.

Fru-Gal

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #120 on: January 17, 2025, 01:36:11 PM »
But why would Zuck be at risk when his platform literally accepted payment in Rubles for US political election advertisements?

ChpBstrd

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #121 on: January 17, 2025, 01:45:09 PM »
But why would Zuck be at risk when his platform literally accepted payment in Rubles for US political election advertisements?
https://fortune.com/2025/01/17/mark-zuckerberg-blaming-meta-sheryl-sandberg-inclusivity-initiative/

also having fact checkers in the first place.

Ron Scott

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #122 on: January 17, 2025, 02:12:39 PM »
I’m also scratching my head about the flip-flop between the parties on free speech. Hear much about “Net Neutrality” these days? Is it Animal Farm time?

TikTok will be banned or fire-sold this weekend as a demonstration of the politicians' wrath, and because it was unallowable for its owners to be out of retaliatory reach. Mark Zuckerberg was quick to fall in line before becoming a target of the ruling party, but he cut it close. As America heads in a more Russian direction, Zuck would be wise to avoid tall buildings or air travel.

Wild—but some truth here!

Trump and many Dems actually have concluded the world institutions created by the US—NATO. The World Bank, etc.—haven’t worked out as planned. China circumvented it’s promises after being granted access to our markets and the West is tired of getting screwed by their cheap exports. And Russia is in the midst of a decade long temper tantrum after realizing it’s been assigned permanent pariah status by the West and personal-bitch status by China. So the wonderful world order is on tilt!

Meanwhile, with the exception of the US, the rest of the planet can’t get their economic shit together, leaving the US in the strongest position its been in since 1945.

Enter Trump LOL. Now, all those ninnies who complained about American business capturing the legislative process are realizing that all you need is a politician in control of his party to REALLY crack the whip.

Buckle up. The badboys have just inherited the earth!

—-

Forgot to mention Iran just lost their Empire of little dingleberries thanks to the US/Israel. LOL


« Last Edit: January 17, 2025, 02:21:37 PM by Ron Scott »

PeteD01

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #123 on: January 17, 2025, 05:02:49 PM »
I’m also scratching my head about the flip-flop between the parties on free speech. Hear much about “Net Neutrality” these days? Is it Animal Farm time?

TikTok will be banned or fire-sold this weekend as a demonstration of the politicians' wrath, and because it was unallowable for its owners to be out of retaliatory reach. Mark Zuckerberg was quick to fall in line before becoming a target of the ruling party, but he cut it close. As America heads in a more Russian direction, Zuck would be wise to avoid tall buildings or air travel.

Wild—but some truth here!

Trump and many Dems actually have concluded the world institutions created by the US—NATO. The World Bank, etc.—haven’t worked out as planned. China circumvented it’s promises after being granted access to our markets and the West is tired of getting screwed by their cheap exports. And Russia is in the midst of a decade long temper tantrum after realizing it’s been assigned permanent pariah status by the West and personal-bitch status by China. So the wonderful world order is on tilt!

Meanwhile, with the exception of the US, the rest of the planet can’t get their economic shit together, leaving the US in the strongest position its been in since 1945.

Enter Trump LOL. Now, all those ninnies who complained about American business capturing the legislative process are realizing that all you need is a politician in control of his party to REALLY crack the whip.

Buckle up. The badboys have just inherited the earth!

—-

Forgot to mention Iran just lost their Empire of little dingleberries thanks to the US/Israel. LOL

What again is the point here?

I get that one can be exasperated at the condition of the world but becoming unhinged in a repeated meltdown isn’t really helpful unless one wants to feed one’s anger issues.

If you are interested in a discussion of your particular grievances, you need to work a bit on keeping your focus.

Let me explain:

Trump
world institutions
US—NATO
The World Bank
China
our markets
the West
cheap exports
Russia
temper tantrum
permanent pariah status
personal-bitch status
wonderful world order
get their economic shit together
US in the strongest position
ninnies who complained
capturing the legislative process
politician in control
REALLY crack the whip
badboys
inherited the earth
Iran
Empire of little dingleberries


This is a variation of the Gish gallop - if you are really thinking like that, I feel for you - on the other hand, a trolling effort is more likely.
 
« Last Edit: January 17, 2025, 05:51:07 PM by PeteD01 »

reeshau

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #124 on: January 17, 2025, 08:37:17 PM »
I’m also scratching my head about the flip-flop between the parties on free speech. Hear much about “Net Neutrality” these days? Is it Animal Farm time?

TikTok will be banned or fire-sold this weekend as a demonstration of the politicians' wrath, and because it was unallowable for its owners to be out of retaliatory reach. Mark Zuckerberg was quick to fall in line before becoming a target of the ruling party, but he cut it close. As America heads in a more Russian direction, Zuck would be wise to avoid tall buildings or air travel.

Well, he is actually building that bunker in Hawaii.  About as far as you can get from DC without leaving the US.

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #125 on: January 18, 2025, 12:01:36 PM »
I can’t keep my conspiracies straight here, why again would Zuck be in danger from Trump when he’s toadying as fast as he can?

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #126 on: January 18, 2025, 12:10:40 PM »
I can’t keep my conspiracies straight here, why again would Zuck be in danger from Trump when he’s toadying as fast as he can?

Zuck makes a shit ton of money from analyzing massive amounts of data.  Perhaps he and the other tech bro billionaires have applied their proprietary tools to history.  Those of us who did Economics as an undergrad have been aware for close to a decade that we are getting close to the level of wealth inequality that finally prompted the French peasantry to start chopping heads off and even turning same into a "wholesome family activity".  Does Zuck see the inflection point that several times over history has caused massive and bloody peasant uprisings?  What will be America's Bastille Moment?

We still have the Superb Owl (and social media free of that dreaded 'fact checking') to look forward to but bread and circuses only worked for so long in Rome.

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #127 on: January 22, 2025, 09:59:53 AM »
More on the oligarchic thievery that is now out in the open:


Oligarchs are more visible than ever. That also makes them more vulnerable
Jan-Werner Müller
In the end, the best bet against oligarchy remains countervailing power
22 Jan 2025

It remains unusual, though, for oligarchs to grab the levers of the state themselves – unless, as with Berlusconi, entering politics appears the only means to avoid prison. Of Trump’s political appointees, 26 have fortunes that exceed $100m; 12 are billionaires. His is the richest cabinet in the nation’s history. Plus, there is the world’s wealthiest person in a largely undefined, and completely unaccountable role as promoting “government efficiency”.

That strange mixture of visibility and invisibility creates vulnerability. There are the conflicts of interests and the scandals that will result from plundering the state (though, as of now, both Democrats and the public at large simply appear resigned to kleptocracy on an unprecedented scale); Musk’s grand promises of “efficiency” might remain unfulfilled; the conspiracy theories and sheer petulance of newly Trumpist oligarchs like Mark Andreessen – whining that the Biden administration had unleashed “terrorism” on the tech industry – dents the image of the Silicon Valley geniuses always ready with a solution for humanity’s problems.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jan/22/oligarchs-visible-more-vulnerable

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #128 on: January 22, 2025, 11:42:50 AM »
Nice article. I so appreciate historical context.

Ron Scott

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #129 on: January 22, 2025, 01:45:53 PM »
Of course the history books would also comment that the modern buildup of American Supertech is largely thanks to the Democrats—envisioned and kickstarted by Clinton and Gore—with policies that survived about 20 years, through most of Obama’s administration. (The press wasn’t calling them oligarchs then LOL.)

These history books are still being written, and before believing the toothpaste salesmen in the liberal media (or their equally disgusting competitors on the right) about who the bad actors are, a little more time and thought might be useful.

Consider for a moment the proposition that American politicians and news media have sold their souls by peddling partisanship, then put all this in the context of today’s geopolitics and ask yourself what happens “over there” during the coming decade if Americans are consumed with hating each other, egged on by the bobblehead media that feeds red meat to it’s segmented lemmings.

If you’d prefer a world in which China/Russia/NK/Iran run amok for a decade while America dicks around bitching about oligarchs you just might get it.

The vile on the both left and right these days is leaving Xi and Putin laughing so hard then can barely breathe. Don’t be part of it.

PeteD01

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #130 on: January 22, 2025, 02:41:30 PM »
Of course the history books would also comment that the modern buildup of American Supertech is largely thanks to the Democrats—envisioned and kickstarted by Clinton and Gore—with policies that survived about 20 years, through most of Obama’s administration. (The press wasn’t calling them oligarchs then LOL.)

These history books are still being written, and before believing the toothpaste salesmen in the liberal media (or their equally disgusting competitors on the right) about who the bad actors are, a little more time and thought might be useful.

Consider for a moment the proposition that American politicians and news media have sold their souls by peddling partisanship, then put all this in the context of today’s geopolitics and ask yourself what happens “over there” during the coming decade if Americans are consumed with hating each other, egged on by the bobblehead media that feeds red meat to it’s segmented lemmings.

If you’d prefer a world in which China/Russia/NK/Iran run amok for a decade while America dicks around bitching about oligarchs you just might get it.

The vile on the both left and right these days is leaving Xi and Putin laughing so hard then can barely breathe. Don’t be part of it.

What the hell are you talking about?

The discussion is about oligarchs directly and openly grabbing government power.
This is not an event happening early in the emergence of oligarchy but late, if at all, and puts the developments on the timeline of both parties´ administrations with Reagan priming the pump.

To make that clear: Oligarchs are agnostic when it comes to parties and will happily align themselves with whoever is closest to the reins of power and is willing to do their bidding.

Oligarchs not only have no party loyalty but also do not have country loyalty.
Internally, that gives rise to the uniparty conspiracy theory which oligarchs enthusiastically support because it weakens confidence in government and instills a sense of powerlessness and fatalism into public sentiment.

That uniparty conspiracy theory obviously serves oligarchs well because it allows them to explain away their flip-flopping on party support and beholdenness to foreign interests - because if you convince people that their own country is a shithole in decline, how are they going to get excited about pandering to foreign interests originating in countries that are no better but also not worse than their own.
Next thing you know, you got a movement of people taking a shit on America and singing the praises of Putin.

As much as the uniparty conspiracy theory serves the oligarchs, it is entirely different for the middle class, because despite the responsibility centrists have for letting oligarchic power grow, the reactionary right wing policies are positively toxic to the middle class.

So yeah, the oligarchs would love us to believe the uniparty conspiracy theory but believing it is diametrically opposed to middle class interests.

Here is the link to the "uniparty" wiki page - it's so fucking stupid (paging MTG) that it's not worth spending much time on it (and Meme-Ron has done a good job as the MMM Uniparty One-Trick-Mascot; but I still recommend to look at it to see the stupidity of it for yourself)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniparty#:~:text=Uniparty%20is%20used%20as%20a,function%20as%20a%20single%20party.



This is far more interesting and relevant:


Oligarchy Illustrated Edition
by Jeffrey A. Winters

For centuries, oligarchs were viewed as empowered by wealth, an idea muddled by elite theory early in the twentieth century. The common thread for oligarchs across history is that wealth defines them, empowers them, and inherently exposes them to threats. The existential motive of all oligarchs is wealth defense. How they respond varies with the threats they confront, including how directly involved they are in supplying the coercion underlying all property claims, and whether they act separately or collectively. These variations yield four types of oligarchy: warring, ruling, sultanistic, and civil. Oligarchy is not displaced by democracy but rather is fused with it. Moreover, the rule of law problem in many societies is a matter of taming oligarchs. Cases studied in this book include the United States, ancient Athens and Rome, Indonesia, the Philippines, Singapore, medieval Venice and Siena, mafia commissions in the United States and Italy, feuding Appalachian families, and early chiefs cum oligarchs dating from 2300 BCE.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0521182980?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title
« Last Edit: January 22, 2025, 07:31:50 PM by PeteD01 »

Ron Scott

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #131 on: January 22, 2025, 02:54:33 PM »
Of course the history books would also comment that the modern buildup of American Supertech is largely thanks to the Democrats—envisioned and kickstarted by Clinton and Gore—with policies that survived about 20 years, through most of Obama’s administration. (The press wasn’t calling them oligarchs then LOL.)

These history books are still being written, and before believing the toothpaste salesmen in the liberal media (or their equally disgusting competitors on the right) about who the bad actors are, a little more time and thought might be useful.

Consider for a moment the proposition that American politicians and news media have sold their souls by peddling partisanship, then put all this in the context of today’s geopolitics and ask yourself what happens “over there” during the coming decade if Americans are consumed with hating each other, egged on by the bobblehead media that feeds red meat to it’s segmented lemmings.

If you’d prefer a world in which China/Russia/NK/Iran run amok for a decade while America dicks around bitching about oligarchs you just might get it.

The vile on the both left and right these days is leaving Xi and Putin laughing so hard then can barely breathe. Don’t be part of it.

What the hell are you talking about?


Try reading what those who disagree with you are writing instead of repetitively posting from the trove of your partisan faves. That’s what “the hell” I’m talking about, Peter.

PeteD01

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #132 on: January 22, 2025, 03:43:24 PM »
Of course the history books would also comment that the modern buildup of American Supertech is largely thanks to the Democrats—envisioned and kickstarted by Clinton and Gore—with policies that survived about 20 years, through most of Obama’s administration. (The press wasn’t calling them oligarchs then LOL.)

These history books are still being written, and before believing the toothpaste salesmen in the liberal media (or their equally disgusting competitors on the right) about who the bad actors are, a little more time and thought might be useful.

Consider for a moment the proposition that American politicians and news media have sold their souls by peddling partisanship, then put all this in the context of today’s geopolitics and ask yourself what happens “over there” during the coming decade if Americans are consumed with hating each other, egged on by the bobblehead media that feeds red meat to it’s segmented lemmings.

If you’d prefer a world in which China/Russia/NK/Iran run amok for a decade while America dicks around bitching about oligarchs you just might get it.

The vile on the both left and right these days is leaving Xi and Putin laughing so hard then can barely breathe. Don’t be part of it.

What the hell are you talking about?

The discussion is about oligarchs directly and openly grabbing government power.
This is not an event happening early in the emergence of oligarchy but late, if at all, and puts the developments on the timeline of both parties´ administrations with Reagan priming the pump.

To make that clear: Oligarchs are agnostic when it comes to parties and will happily align themselves with whoever is closest to the reins of power and is willing to do their bidding.

Oligarchs not only have no party loyalty but also do not have country loyalty.
Internally, that gives rise to the uniparty conspiracy theory which oligarchs enthusiastically support because it weakens confidence in government and instills a sense of powerlessness and fatalism into public sentiment.

That uniparty conspiracy theory obviously serves oligarchs well because it allows them to explain away their flip-flopping on party support and beholdenness to foreign interests - because if you convince people that their own country is a shithole in decline, how are they going to get excited about pandering to foreign interests originating in countries that are no better but also not worse than their own.
Next thing you know, you got a movement of people taking a shit on America and singing the praises of Putin.

As much as the uniparty conspiracy theory serves the oligarchs, it is entirely different for the middle class, because despite the responsibility centrists have for letting oligarchic power grow, the reactionary right wing policies are positively toxic to the middle class.

So yeah, the oligarchs would love us to believe the uniparty conspiracy theory but believing it is diametrically opposed to middle class interests.

Here is the link to the "uniparty" wiki page - it's so fucking stupid (paging MTG) that it's not worth spending much time on it (and Meme-Ron has done a good job as the MMM Uniparty One-Trick-Mascot; but I still recommend to look at it to see the stupidity of it for yourself)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniparty#:~:text=Uniparty%20is%20used%20as%20a,function%20as%20a%20single%20party.



This is far more interesting and relevant:


Oligarchy Illustrated Edition
by Jeffrey A. Winters

For centuries, oligarchs were viewed as empowered by wealth, an idea muddled by elite theory early in the twentieth century. The common thread for oligarchs across history is that wealth defines them, empowers them, and inherently exposes them to threats. The existential motive of all oligarchs is wealth defense. How they respond varies with the threats they confront, including how directly involved they are in supplying the coercion underlying all property claims, and whether they act separately or collectively. These variations yield four types of oligarchy: warring, ruling, sultanistic, and civil. Oligarchy is not displaced by democracy but rather is fused with it. Moreover, the rule of law problem in many societies is a matter of taming oligarchs. Cases studied in this book include the United States, ancient Athens and Rome, Indonesia, the Philippines, Singapore, medieval Venice and Siena, mafia commissions in the United States and Italy, feuding Appalachian families, and early chiefs cum oligarchs dating from 2300 BCE.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0521182980?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

Try reading what those who disagree with you are writing instead of repetitively posting from the trove of your partisan faves. That’s what “the hell” I’m talking about, Peter.

You accidentally omitted most of my post - I fixed it for you.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2025, 07:32:31 PM by PeteD01 »

PeteD01

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #133 on: January 23, 2025, 12:11:04 PM »
Here is one for those who are interested in the Musk worldview - predictably unoriginal of course. It's very rare to encounter extremist right wing speech that is not infused with this hysteria.

The perennial crisis narrative is what keeps the nervous nellies on the right in a permanent state of mild panic and in thrall to those who promise them relief from their suffering (while those are busily creating the fear that keeps the rubes on their toes).

This is related to declinism:


Declinism

Declinism has been described as "a trick of the mind" and as "an emotional strategy, something comforting to snuggle up to when the present day seems intolerably bleak."[8]

One factor in declinism is the reminiscence bump in which older people tend "to best remember events that happened to them at around the ages of 10-30."[2] As one source puts it, "[t]he vibrancy of youth, and the thrill of experiencing things for the first time, creates a 'memory bump' compared with which later life does seem a bit drab."[8] Gopnick suggests that "the idea of our decline is emotionally magnetic, because life is a long slide down, and the plateau just passed is easier to love than the one coming up." Citing the widespread love of "old songs," he writes: "The long look back is part of the long ride home. We all believe in yesterday."[4]

Another factor is the positivity effect in which "as people get older, they tend to experience fewer negative emotions, and they're more likely to remember positive things over negative things."

Both factors can lead people to experience declinism but so, contrarily, can negativity bias in which "emotionally negative events are likely to have more impact on your thoughts and behaviours than a similar, but positive, event."[2]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declinism#:~:text=Declinism%20is%20the%20belief%20that,and%20the%20future%20more%20negatively.



Elon Musk and the narratives of decadence that link all anti-democratic movements
January 20, 2025

Elon Musk’s philosophy

In France, the far-right philosopher Guillaume Faye, who inspired the identitarian movement, invented a reactionary philosophy called “archeofuturism”. It aims to combine skyrocketing technical progress and a medieval morality of heroism and hierarchies. That’s not far from how Musk answers the decadence narrative with a call to radical long-termism.

The “digital town square” that X claims to be, for instance, is a signifier of the feudal public sphere. Musk’s digital reenactment of ancient Rome’s aesthetics reflects the far-right desire for an American Caesar. Oswald Spengler’s Decline of the West, the most influential book in pre-fascist Germany, promoted the very same idea.


https://theconversation.com/elon-musk-and-the-narratives-of-decadence-that-link-all-anti-democratic-movements-247396
« Last Edit: January 23, 2025, 04:20:05 PM by PeteD01 »

partgypsy

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #134 on: January 23, 2025, 12:26:58 PM »
Best way to import talent across the board.

I don't agree with this.  While it has been the common way the US has integrated immigrants, there is nothing keeping the US from just allowing skilled labor to immigrate.  If you look at immigration policies of many countries around medical skills, they are welcomed in immediately, with no second-tier status.  This is because they are in short supply, and obviously needed.  Countries are competing for them, on wages.

If we deem other skills as needed and strategic, we could be as open for them, too.
except, since they are visa holders , and Trump sign an xo to get rid of citizenship based on Natalism, no the children will not be citizens and it will all be about who you bribe, ally to stay in the country. My daughter's best friend was born here. But her parents while being here for decades are undocumented. They are preparing to go back. And her and her younger sibling (both in HS) will have to figure out how to survive, pay bills, etc without any parental support. They are scared. there will be hundreds of thousand of kids in the same situation. It's heartbreaking. 
« Last Edit: January 23, 2025, 12:31:56 PM by partgypsy »

achvfi

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #135 on: January 23, 2025, 02:08:35 PM »
I found this video compelling. A short compilation of Tesla CEO support for Nazi and Far right activists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjWl_RNDMSA

lhamo

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #136 on: January 23, 2025, 02:17:26 PM »
My daughter's best friend was born here. But her parents while being here for decades are undocumented. They are preparing to go back. And her and her younger sibling (both in HS) will have to figure out how to survive, pay bills, etc without any parental support. They are scared. there will be hundreds of thousand of kids in the same situation. It's heartbreaking.

Can you help?  Maybe at least provide a room at low/no cost until they graduate and figure out next steps?  Maybe while they get through community college at least? 

I know you aren't fully FI yet, but it seems to me this would be a meaningful contribution/form of resistance to the cruelty of these policies and their effects on actual people -- especially ones we know personally!

I live near a local high school with a large immigrant/refugee population.  Might try to do something similar myself.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2025, 02:19:12 PM by lhamo »

Ron Scott

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #137 on: January 23, 2025, 02:18:24 PM »
I found this video compelling. A short compilation of Tesla CEO support for Nazi and Far right activists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjWl_RNDMSA

I forget when Musk was transitioned from ECO-buddy to the devil. Around 2022??

GuitarStv

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #138 on: January 23, 2025, 02:28:51 PM »
I found this video compelling. A short compilation of Tesla CEO support for Nazi and Far right activists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjWl_RNDMSA

I forget when Musk was transitioned from ECO-buddy to the devil. Around 2022??

I think it coincided roughly with the time he started heavily using ketamine to treat his depression.  Ketamine is linked to increased impulsivity and antisocial personality changes, and coupled with Musk's existing personality I've often wondered if this is what has pushed forward the version of him that so many people find off-putting.

Morning Glory

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #139 on: January 23, 2025, 03:42:56 PM »
I found this video compelling. A short compilation of Tesla CEO support for Nazi and Far right activists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjWl_RNDMSA

I forget when Musk was transitioned from ECO-buddy to the devil. Around 2022??

I think it coincided roughly with the time he started heavily using ketamine to treat his depression.  Ketamine is linked to increased impulsivity and antisocial personality changes, and coupled with Musk's existing personality I've often wondered if this is what has pushed forward the version of him that so many people find off-putting.
Another good reason why power shouldn't be concentrated in the hands of just a few people.

reeshau

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #140 on: January 23, 2025, 03:49:28 PM »
I found this video compelling. A short compilation of Tesla CEO support for Nazi and Far right activists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjWl_RNDMSA

I forget when Musk was transitioned from ECO-buddy to the devil. Around 2022??

I think it coincided roughly with the time he started heavily using ketamine to treat his depression.  Ketamine is linked to increased impulsivity and antisocial personality changes, and coupled with Musk's existing personality I've often wondered if this is what has pushed forward the version of him that so many people find off-putting.
I'd say it was (the time of) Covid.  Here is an interesting substack post from Sam Harris, a former longtime friend of Elon's.  Understanding this is one side of the story, I think Sam lays out a lucid and thoughtful review of his personal interactions with him.

The fact that Elon was willing to bet $1 million on the under of 35,000 cases (not deaths, cases) of Covid in the US shows a) how little $1M means to him and b) that his feelings on the topic were strong enough to cloud his knowledge of exponential growth--something he comments on regularly regarding his business and tech, more broadly.

https://samharris.substack.com/p/the-trouble-with-elon
« Last Edit: January 24, 2025, 07:57:51 AM by reeshau »

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #141 on: January 24, 2025, 06:30:30 AM »
I suspect people taking drugs, even Ketamine, don't normally flip to Republican as a result.  The states which decriminalize marijuanna are largely blue states, and those which keep it illegal are largely red states.

But back in 2020, California required lockdowns, and that pissed of Tesla CEO Elon Musk.  He argued with and flouted those rules, threatening to move Tesla's H.Q. to Texas (which he did).

Biden pissed off / offended / hurt Musk deeply by deliberately excluding him from a meeting of car industry CEOs to discuss energy efficiency.  The #1 EV company in the U.S. was excluded from talks that included EV.  So we can thank Biden for a deliberate insult to Musk, which pushed Musk further rightward.

LaineyAZ

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #142 on: January 24, 2025, 07:15:41 AM »
^ and they say females are too emotional    /s

Ron Scott

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #143 on: January 24, 2025, 08:16:31 AM »
It is quite fascinating to watch how the media are scampering to re-envision Musk for their liberal v. right “market segments”

Musk was obviously a Dem fanboy for many years. In presidential. campaigns he supported Obama twice, Hillary, and then Biden. He openly criticized Trump’s character during the 2016 campaign.

Musk got a huge DOE loan which helped fund Tesla’s Model S etc. around 2010 and the Dems were leaning into his EV thing as big-Green and so on. Obama was all over SpaceX as a key partner to NASA and heralded Musk for pushing the private-public collaboration and commercialization of space. Musk was the first private enterprise to dock with the International Space Station. There was a big solar energy thing Musk was involved with the Dems on too—SolarCity—and Obama visited it with him. Musk often talked about the need for “sustainable” and “renewable” energy…which the Dems ate up like crazy. Musk even supported Obamacare: He was all in.

Under Trump V1.0 Musk was on some advisory councils but he dropped out in protest over Trump’s decision to leave the Paris Climate accord. So even under Trump, Musk was still leaning more left than right.

Something happened under Biden though. Biden wasn’t in love with him. I remember Biden hosted a big EV futures event and deliberately left Musk and Tesla out of it despite the lead role Tesla played in the industry. Jen Psaki rubbed salt into the wound, saying—well we invited the 3 largest employers of the UAW so figure it out! (IMO that’s an asshole move…)

During Biden, a lot of Musk’s west coast tech bros were getting pretty tough treatment that really surprised them. They went from being gods who walked among us on the left to scumbags who were encouraging teen suicide for profit..that sort of thing. And the GOP was attacking them for controlling pro-right speech on their platforms.

I understand the current discontent on the left with bigtech and Musk. But I actually think they committed a forced political error and can’t figure out how to undo it. The Dems, for whatever reason, decided to turn on tech in a really pissy way…for what?

We should all try to consider what would have happened last November if the Dems kept Silicon Valley inside the tent instead of snubbing them like pariahs.

THANK YOU JOE: https://www.newsweek.com/elon-musk-donald-trump-joe-biden-tesla-spacex-1967931

 

GuitarStv

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #144 on: January 24, 2025, 08:26:58 AM »
We should all try to consider what would have happened last November if the Dems kept Silicon Valley inside the tent instead of snubbing them like pariahs.

Soooo . . . are we just openly acknowledging that billionaire tech giants control US elections now?

bacchi

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #145 on: January 24, 2025, 08:33:37 AM »
We're back to the "It's the liberals' fault for them being assholes!" narrative.

jrhampt

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #146 on: January 24, 2025, 08:35:56 AM »
We should all try to consider what would have happened last November if the Dems kept Silicon Valley inside the tent instead of snubbing them like pariahs.

Soooo . . . are we just openly acknowledging that billionaire tech giants control US elections now?

Yeah, I don't think that's an overstatement.  I think it's pretty clear that at the very least they have a huge influence.

Just Joe

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #147 on: January 24, 2025, 08:50:14 AM »
We're back to the "It's the liberals' fault for them being assholes!" narrative.

Already???

PeteD01

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #148 on: January 24, 2025, 09:09:56 AM »
We should all try to consider what would have happened last November if the Dems kept Silicon Valley inside the tent instead of snubbing them like pariahs.

Soooo . . . are we just openly acknowledging that billionaire tech giants control US elections now?

Yeah, I don't think that's an overstatement.  I think it's pretty clear that at the very least they have a huge influence.

They do if one lets them - fortunately, there are signs that the love affair between Democrats and billionaires with oligarchic ambitions might be ending.

The idea that billionaires of Musk´s oligarchic mold are flipping back and forth being Democrats and Republicans is nonsense because they are neither.
They opportunistically  support and manipulate those that act most in their interest and that may be Democrats today and Republicans tomorrow. That's what sociopathy in action looks like.

The single-minded pursuit of their self interest is also their achilles heel of the oligarchs as it puts them squarely at odds with the public interest, but also at odds with other billionaires/oligarchs and political forces.

Freezing the oligarchs out of the political process is the one and only measure needed to clip their wings, and, historically, that has worked quite well because oligarchs tend to antagonize pretty much everyone at some point.


rocketpj

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Re: MAGA and the Billionaires - a tale of resentment and contempt
« Reply #149 on: January 24, 2025, 09:17:10 AM »
I'm of the opinion that billionaires are a policy failure.  There is no human need so great that it cannot be met with a cool 100 Million.  Beyond that, or even less, wealth is just a power mechanism.

15?ish years ago Piketty's 'Capital in the 21st Century' was published, to a round of howling and screeching by most every media outlet and pundit.  His argument, backed with mountains of evidence, was that unfettered capitalism leads to a massive overconcentration of wealth at the top.  What follows after is a distortion of the political process as the wealthy grab more power for themselves - the better to further enrich themselves.

Of course, the inarguable fact that he turns out to be correct must be small comfort for him.