So . . . like . . . how do you figure out when to bail?

[tooqk4u22]

Whenever someone says that they want their autonomous decision power taken away from them because it would be reassuring, I get concerned.

The process of making emotionally difficult decisions with substantial stakes is incredibly psychologically beneficial.

Nothing to be concerned about, it's not like I am submitting my free will to a cult or something.  I assure you I have and still do make plenty of difficult decisions including when I quit the first time and when I went back to work this time. 

I can jump out of an airplane with a parachute or I can be pushed out of an airplane with a parachute.....either way I have a parachute but if something goes wrong when I am pushed then I can say fk it and fly and my family can blame them.   

[Metalcat]

Whenever someone says that they want their autonomous decision power taken away from them because it would be reassuring, I get concerned.

The process of making emotionally difficult decisions with substantial stakes is incredibly psychologically beneficial.

Nothing to be concerned about, it's not like I am submitting my free will to a cult or something.  I assure you I have and still do make plenty of difficult decisions including when I quit the first time and when I went back to work this time. 

I can jump out of an airplane with a parachute or I can be pushed out of an airplane with a parachute.....either way I have a parachute but if something goes wrong when I am pushed then I can say fk it and fly and my family can blame them.

Lol, I should have clarified that I meant it more as a general comment and not specific concern for you as a person.

I'm a therapist, I hear this kind of statement A LOT.

[GuitarStv]

Getting laid off means they have to pay you severance.  That's way better than quitting on your own!

[Metalcat]

Getting laid off means they have to pay you severance.  That's way better than quitting on your own!

Yeah, of course, but there's a difference between holding out for severance vs avoiding making a decision.

[saguaro]

Getting laid off means they have to pay you severance.  That's way better than quitting on your own!

Yeah, of course, but there's a difference between holding out for severance vs avoiding making a decision.

Even with severance and how it's offered, you may have to make a decision.  I am currently in a situation where I have been offered a voluntary severance package which is technically agreeing to quit for a severance package above what is normally offered.   Company not doing well and plans on conducting involuntary layoffs but doing the voluntary separations first.  No one is pushing me out the door and I have the option to refuse but that means rolling the dice on getting involuntarily let go down the line, likely within months, or remain.  Some people have decided to take their chances anyway, but in this case either way it's making a decision IMHO.

[Miss Piggy]

I thought you were the badass guy who sleeps on a floor? What do you need money for? :p

Old as fuck dude.  What if I start wanting a mattress??????  Or . . . (gasp) . . . a cell phone?

...aaaaaannnndddd...there it is: The Lifestyle Creep.

[GuitarStv]

I thought you were the badass guy who sleeps on a floor? What do you need money for? :p

Old as fuck dude.  What if I start wanting a mattress??????  Or . . . (gasp) . . . a cell phone?

...aaaaaannnndddd...there it is: The Lifestyle Creep.

I've been living the creep lifestyle for a long time and have no plans to change.

[deborah]

Even when you want it, severance can give you a lot of negative feelings.

[GuitarStv]

Even when you want it, severance can give you a lot of negative feelings.

No negative feelings here.  I thought it was pretty fun to watch.

[Gone Fishing]

Worked in an industry known for mergers and RIFs.  Thought occurred to me to hold out for a severance, but I didn’t want to wait.  It did finally come around, 5 years after I left.  I still wouldn’t trade that time for the money.  I’d probably only hold out if there were winds of change that might take place in 12 months or so.

Given the size of this community, there will inevitably be people that resign days/weeks before a potentially profitable RIF is announced. Enough is enough, there will ALWAYS be “easy” money on the table for this crowd.  At some point you have to decide to walk away pursue other things*.

*Assuming that is really what you want to do.

[2sk22]

There is a difference between intellectually knowing that you have enough to retire and your feelings about having enough. I had already reached the first stage when I joined this forum. When I posted our numbers, everyone told me to quit immediately. But it actually took another year and a half of mental preparation to actually take the step of quitting. Its easy for "the internet" to give you permission to retire but harder for you to give yourself permission to retire.

+1 truth!

I quit in 2019 after hst I thought was OMY and then went back to work at end of 2022 to add to college and travel funds and a bit of fear due to inflation/declining markets.  If I hadn't we probably would be fine but WR would be higher now.

Here I am having met what I set out to do with going back to work and KNOW we have enough....and yet I am struggling emotionally with dropping out again.

The fear of f'ing up bc of my decisions is strong in me.....I really want to be laid off immediately so it is not my making....then I will be completely fine.

Whenever someone says that they want their autonomous decision power taken away from them because it would be reassuring, I get concerned.

The process of making emotionally difficult decisions with substantial stakes is incredibly psychologically beneficial.

As it happens, my wife also has much the same attitude to quitting as @tooqk4u22 . She is fully aware that she could quit her job any time.  But she doesn't find the work taxing, likes her manager and gets paid very well. She's sort-of hoping to get laid off at some point but I don't think that will happen because she is really good at her work.

[TreeLeaf]

There is a difference between intellectually knowing that you have enough to retire and your feelings about having enough. I had already reached the first stage when I joined this forum. When I posted our numbers, everyone told me to quit immediately. But it actually took another year and a half of mental preparation to actually take the step of quitting. Its easy for "the internet" to give you permission to retire but harder for you to give yourself permission to retire.

+1 truth!

I quit in 2019 after hst I thought was OMY and then went back to work at end of 2022 to add to college and travel funds and a bit of fear due to inflation/declining markets.  If I hadn't we probably would be fine but WR would be higher now.

Here I am having met what I set out to do with going back to work and KNOW we have enough....and yet I am struggling emotionally with dropping out again.

The fear of f'ing up bc of my decisions is strong in me.....I really want to be laid off immediately so it is not my making....then I will be completely fine.

Whenever someone says that they want their autonomous decision power taken away from them because it would be reassuring, I get concerned.

The process of making emotionally difficult decisions with substantial stakes is incredibly psychologically beneficial.

As it happens, my wife also has much the same attitude to quitting as @tooqk4u22 . She is fully aware that she could quit her job any time.  But she doesn't find the work taxing, likes her manager and gets paid very well. She's sort-of hoping to get laid off at some point but I don't think that will happen because she is really good at her work.

I mean - honestly I'm not hoping to get laid off....buuuut....if someone wants to give me several months severance to quit my job? Yeah I would take that deal.

In my ideal world though I would be given an option at any time to be paid to leave. This way the decision is still mine to make but I still get the money when I leave.

[GilesMM]

Getting laid off means they have to pay you severance.  That's way better than quitting on your own!

Getting laid off is a good time.  I planned my retirement quite a few years in advance for April 2021.  No telling if I would have stuck to my guns on the day but I was putting everything in place.  Then the pandemic hit and the company, naturally, decided a layoff was in order.  Employees were allowed to "volunteer".  I put my hand up. The severance was 12 months pay plus six months COBRA.  My last day was Oct 2020, six months ahead of schedule.  Took the pension lump sum and whacked it into VTSAX. What's not to like?

[mspym]

I survived multiple rounds of layoffs - which I was a bit disappointed about and ended up jumping ship for more money of my own accord. Ofpym got laid off this time last year which was a bit of a favour from his bosses to send him off with a payout, given they knew he was looking to move anyway. I’ve seen too many people hang on hoping for severance, way past the point when they should have left.

[eyesonthehorizon]

... I’ve seen too many people hang on hoping for severance, way past the point when they should have left.

This might have been me (maybe it was? I should have quit sooner than I did, anyway.) If the severance were life-changing it might be one thing but for most people for whom that will be true, they aren’t FI. If one likes the job & is 50-50 on staying, that might also be a good outcome.

But I wish I hadn’t let knowledge of the severance infect my decisionmaking. It made it harder to leave & left me wondering “what if” afterward in a way that took a while to let go of, longer than it should have, because I did let some time pass in part for that hope. I should have moved on by then, so it gives that memory the feel of a losing bet.

[saguaro]

... I’ve seen too many people hang on hoping for severance, way past the point when they should have left.

This might have been me (maybe it was? I should have quit sooner than I did, anyway.) If the severance were life-changing it might be one thing but for most people for whom that will be true, they aren’t FI. If one likes the job & is 50-50 on staying, that might also be a good outcome.

But I wish I hadn’t let knowledge of the severance infect my decisionmaking. It made it harder to leave & left me wondering “what if” afterward in a way that took a while to let go of, longer than it should have, because I did let some time pass in part for that hope. I should have moved on by then, so it gives that memory the feel of a losing bet.

When I was at the The Big Company, when it was going through layoffs I saw a lot of people hang on for the severance hence a lot of "I am waiting for package" talk.   Many of them were just miserable, some with unbelievably hostile bosses but just didn't want to pull the plug and miss out on the big payout in spite of the daily misery.  In the end, I'd say maybe 50% got their wish, some were near retirement so they retired early but most ended up having to find another job after their "severance-funded rumspringa"