How many of you have relationship issues?

[G-String]

I was gonna say a thread like this will result in self-selecting strong responses. So people are either going to be very positive (no troubles), not respond at all if troubles exist, and very negative (bad troubles). However I was proven wrong so that’s nice!

Personally having been married at a very young age and now counting over 30 years together, I don’t even know how to respond to such a question LOL. It’s like asking “is life easy or do you have troubles?”! And when people ask me or spouse how we’ve stayed together, we also don’t know!! (OK one reason is we desperately & profoundly love our kids.)

BUT when it comes to new and newish relationships, what you have described are just red flag after red flag, in my opinion, @G-String. It shouldn’t be this hard to get together when you are both in middle life. In other words, both should have learned some basic relationship skills. The lack of these is likely due to trauma but I’m no shrink. The kids in this situation, as someone else here put it, well it just pains me to think what they are currently going through and have gone through. There is no way you are not going to become a father in this scenario, whether you want to or not. Your presence as a male adult in this relationship is a that of a de facto father.

A huge part of relationships is just the skill of living with someone else (though you can also do the “living apart together thing,” which can be cool).

I think this woman has used her sexual currency to hook you and now here you are. I don’t say that to be critical of her. That’s what she knows. She needs it too, we all do.

What exactly do you mean by this part I highlighted?  My GF is a single mom with 5 kids who are all in extracurricular actvities; that's why it is often difficult for us to get together. 

[Fru-Gal]

Sorry, I deleted my post and perhaps that specific point was too general for your situation. I am aware that the logistics you’ve described make getting together difficult.

[G-String]

Sorry, I deleted my post and perhaps that specific point was too general for your situation. I am aware that the logistics you’ve described make getting together difficult.

Thanks for clarifying.  On your other point...at this point I have no interest in being a father, and my GF has indicated she has no desire in me becoming their father. 

[Josiecat22222]

And probably a big part of the reason there are so many horror stories about couples therapy is that people are scared so they wait WAAAAY too long to go, and by that time it really IS much harder to fix things.

Vicious cycle, man.

Yep. I hear so many times "we tried couples counselling and it didn't work" but by "didn't work" they mean that it was horrible and they got divorced, but really, they didn't go until the relationship was too toxic to repair, and therapy clearly showed them that divorce was the only reasonable course of action.

So it worked, perfectly, just not the way they thought it should.

This.  So much THIS.  Some relationships are not salvagable.  Sometimes people grow apart, sometimes they were ill suited from the start.  A couple who decides to part company after attending couple's therapy didn't necessarily "fail" therapy; sometimes it casts a calm nonjudgmental light on their incompatibilities.

[Chris Pascale]

I would like if my wife spent a little more on herself. For example, she'll wear out a pair of shoes until I notice, and sometimes I don't notice for a bit.

She always wants to move. We've been in our current home for 3 years and she's wanted to move for 2 of them.

Regarding non-monetary issues, I'm very lucky because we love and trust each other very much, and are very compatible. She doesn't like to clean, and generally doesn't unless I ask, which I usually don't except on Sundays when we all pick chores out of a hat. It takes 1-2 hours unless you pull the lucky cards, which could be: Get Mail; Take out trash bags at the end; No Chore; Give a Chore to Your Favorite Dad. My preference is to have cleaners, which we did for a couple years until we needed the money to provide hospice for a relative, and then pay funeral expenses, which we were on the same page about.

She's always been very supportive of my writing and now teaching. When I first became an adjunct she was a full-time parent, and asked if I wanted to quit my job and teach, even if it was just part-time, while she worked because I was a lot happier when I came home from teaching.

[Laura33]

Well of course we have issues.  Who doesn't?  It comes and goes in waves.  First couple of years was an adjustment; we had been so in sync when dating that we both just assumed that the other was just like us.  Hah!  Turns out we had some very different built-in assumptions about what was normal -- I was the saver, he was the spender; I cooked once a week and ate leftovers, he ate out and wanted something different (with meat) every night; etc. etc. etc.  Also, we're both good at sulking and uncomfortable with actual loud arguing/bickering, so it can be a little too easy to let things go until the blowing-up point.

Far and away the biggest conflict was over childrearing.  He became a different person when we added kids -- very authoritarian, short-tempered, a big yeller, constantly frustrated, refused to read parenting books or talk to a counselor, was against getting our daughter diagnosed with and medicated for her ADHD, etc.  The first couple of years after we added our second were extremely rough and were the only time I considered divorce.  I finally laid down the law that we were going to get some parenting counseling, period, non-negotiable.  He went, it helped some, and the kids growing up helped more. 

The thing that makes the difference to me, though, is that he is a fucking rock when the chips are down.  When I was miserable with where we were living, I dithered for months about how to tell him when he was very happy there; after I finally spewed out like 4 pages of explanation, he said, "ok," and that was that -- as soon as I made it clear I wasn't happy there, that's all he needed to know, and we were going to move. 

He also thinks all psychology is bullshit.  Yet when our son had a big anxiety/depression meltdown a couple of years ago, he turned to me and basically said "what does he need."  He became DS's support coach, guided by me and by DS' therapist -- and he had more open, non-judgmental conversations with DS than I had seen in the 16 years before then combined.  Again, he totally did not "get" it -- he's an engineer, a just-get-it-done guy, so dealing with a kid who literally cannot get out of bed and make himself go to school was totally outside his experience.  But he understood that it was "real" to DS, put everything else on hold, and made sure we did everything we possibly could to get him better. 

I guess the tl;dr is that no two people will ever agree on everything, but it's who you are when the chips are down that matters most.  I know he has my back, and he knows I have his, and that's what counts.

[cannotWAIT]

And there are so many horrible stories out there about couples therapy, so that's what people hear about.

Yep, well, it was horrible, but not in the way I was expecting. The therapist just transparently thought my ex-husband was ridiculous in his Spock-like attempts to logic his way through relationship problems and was visibly frustrated that he couldn't seem to make him understand. I mean, yes, that was the root of the problem, and I couldn't make him understand either! But the way it was addressed was harmful. I actually think that this is the reason it's better to go way earlier in your relationship, when your problems are small, because then if your therapist sucks the impact on you is not so great. But when you're already teetering on the brink, it would take an amazing stroke of luck to wander into the office of just the right therapist. I mean I can't even find someone to cut my hair right.

[Metalcat]

And there are so many horrible stories out there about couples therapy, so that's what people hear about.

Yep, well, it was horrible, but not in the way I was expecting. The therapist just transparently thought my ex-husband was ridiculous in his Spock-like attempts to logic his way through relationship problems and was visibly frustrated that he couldn't seem to make him understand. I mean, yes, that was the root of the problem, and I couldn't make him understand either! But the way it was addressed was harmful. I actually think that this is the reason it's better to go way earlier in your relationship, when your problems are small, because then if your therapist sucks the impact on you is not so great. But when you're already teetering on the brink, it would take an amazing stroke of luck to wander into the office of just the right therapist. I mean I can't even find someone to cut my hair right.

Yeah, sadly, like any profession, the bulk of therapists are not exceptionally talented, and even if they are, not necessarily the right fit for any given couple.

[leevs11]

How many of you have relationship issues? How many have arguments about money with your spouse? What about other non money issues?

@leevs11  do you have relationship issues?  Do you argue with a spouse or partner about money?  What about non-money issues?

My wife and I tend to fight about money at times. As we get closer hitting our 4% number I get very frustrated at the idea of spending more money. We have plenty of money by far, but the problem is that I look at our annual spending and stache and see that we're close to 25x spending. So the idea of increasing spending makes me question things my wife spends money on.

I don't really question things that we spend on together, but anything that is just for her gets on my nerves and leads to a fight. I don't like being like this. It just happens.

We're both still working too. I just don't like work so it feels like anything that will increase that timeline to FIRE drives me crazy for some reason.

[leevs11]

I would like if my wife spent a little more on herself. For example, she'll wear out a pair of shoes until I notice, and sometimes I don't notice for a bit.

She always wants to move. We've been in our current home for 3 years and she's wanted to move for 2 of them.

Regarding non-monetary issues, I'm very lucky because we love and trust each other very much, and are very compatible. She doesn't like to clean, and generally doesn't unless I ask, which I usually don't except on Sundays when we all pick chores out of a hat. It takes 1-2 hours unless you pull the lucky cards, which could be: Get Mail; Take out trash bags at the end; No Chore; Give a Chore to Your Favorite Dad. My preference is to have cleaners, which we did for a couple years until we needed the money to provide hospice for a relative, and then pay funeral expenses, which we were on the same page about.

She's always been very supportive of my writing and now teaching. When I first became an adjunct she was a full-time parent, and asked if I wanted to quit my job and teach, even if it was just part-time, while she worked because I was a lot happier when I came home from teaching.

Why do you think she always wants to move? My wife does this too.

[GilesMM]

I would like if my wife spent a little more on herself. For example, she'll wear out a pair of shoes until I notice, and sometimes I don't notice for a bit.

She always wants to move. We've been in our current home for 3 years and she's wanted to move for 2 of them.

Regarding non-monetary issues, I'm very lucky because we love and trust each other very much, and are very compatible. She doesn't like to clean, and generally doesn't unless I ask, which I usually don't except on Sundays when we all pick chores out of a hat. It takes 1-2 hours unless you pull the lucky cards, which could be: Get Mail; Take out trash bags at the end; No Chore; Give a Chore to Your Favorite Dad. My preference is to have cleaners, which we did for a couple years until we needed the money to provide hospice for a relative, and then pay funeral expenses, which we were on the same page about.

She's always been very supportive of my writing and now teaching. When I first became an adjunct she was a full-time parent, and asked if I wanted to quit my job and teach, even if it was just part-time, while she worked because I was a lot happier when I came home from teaching.

Why do you think she always wants to move? My wife does this too.

My sister is the same. No sooner is she settled in her home and done decorating when she starts the hunt for the next one.

[Chris Pascale]

I would like if my wife spent a little more on herself. For example, she'll wear out a pair of shoes until I notice, and sometimes I don't notice for a bit.

She always wants to move. We've been in our current home for 3 years and she's wanted to move for 2 of them.

Regarding non-monetary issues, I'm very lucky because we love and trust each other very much, and are very compatible. She doesn't like to clean, and generally doesn't unless I ask, which I usually don't except on Sundays when we all pick chores out of a hat. It takes 1-2 hours unless you pull the lucky cards, which could be: Get Mail; Take out trash bags at the end; No Chore; Give a Chore to Your Favorite Dad. My preference is to have cleaners, which we did for a couple years until we needed the money to provide hospice for a relative, and then pay funeral expenses, which we were on the same page about.

She's always been very supportive of my writing and now teaching. When I first became an adjunct she was a full-time parent, and asked if I wanted to quit my job and teach, even if it was just part-time, while she worked because I was a lot happier when I came home from teaching.

Why do you think she always wants to move? My wife does this too.

My sister is the same. No sooner is she settled in her home and done decorating when she starts the hunt for the next one.

We think it's at least partially related to how much she moved as a kid. She had so many addresses that she almost wasn't able to fill out the paperwork to get a security clearance when she was in the military.

Her instincts sometimes tell her to pack up and go, and she's working to resist the urge, but it doesn't stop her from hitting up open houses. What's helping currently is that our home is so much nicer than these other places that cost more.

[G-String]

More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once? 

[Metalcat]

More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

That is a "normal" reaction for some people with trauma histories.

Whether it's "normal" or not though isn't necessarily relevant, because it's the reaction she has. Her stress levels dealing with this are so high that she's having a major physiological overload.

This isn't something you should be focused on assessing about whether or not it's "normal," you should be concerned for her because it's extremely distressing.

[Kris]

More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

This really, really does not sound like a healthy relationship.

[TreeLeaf]

More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

No offense - but sometimes it seems like when you are asking if someone is normal or not it seems like you are taking more of a defensive/ judgemental stance than a supportive stance.

If DW is ever stressing out to the point of throwing up, I would be far more concerned about her well being than if she is normal or not.

I have a lot of extreme stress responses like this also - from previous trauma - that very much manifest as physiological problems and sickness at times.

DW understands and completely takes care of me if I am to the point of being mentally wiped out from stress - which is wayyyy different for me than a normal person due to, I assume, past trauma.

I also take care of her and support her in every way that I can, but especially so if she is ever sick or getting emotional, etc.

[Captain FIRE]

Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.   

On another note, this is pretty strong evidence of something else we’ve been telling you, that regardless of whether you or she wants it to happen or have been trying to avoid it, the kids are starting to see you as a father figure.

[Tass]

My wife and I tend to fight about money at times. As we get closer hitting our 4% number I get very frustrated at the idea of spending more money. We have plenty of money by far, but the problem is that I look at our annual spending and stache and see that we're close to 25x spending. So the idea of increasing spending makes me question things my wife spends money on.

I don't really question things that we spend on together, but anything that is just for her gets on my nerves and leads to a fight. I don't like being like this. It just happens.

Our budget has an agreed upon "fun money" amount for each of us that we're allowed to spend without approval from the other person, but everything else has to be jointly agreed upon. Maybe an idea?

[Kris]

Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.   

On another note, this is pretty strong evidence of something else we’ve been telling you, that regardless of whether you or she wants it to happen or have been trying to avoid it, the kids are starting to see you as a father figure.

Exactly.

[Metalcat]

Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.   

On another note, this is pretty strong evidence of something else we’ve been telling you, that regardless of whether you or she wants it to happen or have been trying to avoid it, the kids are starting to see you as a father figure.

Exactly.

Yup.

[Laura33]

My wife and I tend to fight about money at times. As we get closer hitting our 4% number I get very frustrated at the idea of spending more money. We have plenty of money by far, but the problem is that I look at our annual spending and stache and see that we're close to 25x spending. So the idea of increasing spending makes me question things my wife spends money on.

I don't really question things that we spend on together, but anything that is just for her gets on my nerves and leads to a fight. I don't like being like this. It just happens.

We're both still working too. I just don't like work so it feels like anything that will increase that timeline to FIRE drives me crazy for some reason.

OK, so I will pass along the thoughts that helped me when I was massively frustrated with how much DH frittered away on stupid things:  who died and made you God?  Why is your version of "what we should spend money on" the only/right/best version, and hers is wrong/inferior/stupid?  What gives you the right to decide how another grown-ass, competent, employed adult gets to spend her money? 

(And yeah, I do actually talk to myself like that.  Sometimes I have to be super-blunt with myself before I figure it out.)

People spend money on things because Reasons.  What are hers?  Your Reason is freedom -- you want to be done with the job, and so your priority spending your money on investments that enable you to buy freedom from working for a living.  But that's not everyone's priority.  Why does she spend money on those things?  What is the feeling that gives her?

I will give you an example:  my DH routinely goes out to lunch with friends from work -- and he really, really enjoys picking up the tab.  When we were first married, that drove me absolutely batshit crazy; I brown-bagged every day and ate at my desk, so I resented him frittering away the money I was saving and then some.  When I talked to him about it, I found out two things. (1) He needs a mental break from work during the day.  Going out to lunch, talking with friends, etc. gave him that break.  I was focused on jamming through all my work so I could get home sooner, so eating at my desk worked for me.  But he's not me.  (2) Being able to treat his friends made him feel like a success -- it was a conscious reminder to himself about how far he had come.  Now, I'm not a guy, and I've never had the big-dick argument over who picks up the check, but I have seen it enough to understand that it's a Thing.  And clearly it was an important Thing to him.  So I let it go.  I still don't "get" it, even after 25+ years.  But I don't have to get it -- I know it matters to him, and that's good enough for me. 

A relationship is successful if it meets the needs of both parties.  If you are unhappy with your job, that should be unacceptable to your wife, and she should be willing to discuss ideas to get you to a happier place.  And if she needs to spend money to meet some sort of need, you need to be willing to discuss ways that she can meet that need that may be easier on the budget -- or if you've already agreed on a budget and she's living within it, then you need to realize that you're being unreasonable and find ways to let it go.  (BTW, separate "fun money" every month can be very, very effective here -- it reminded me that I had no right to get annoyed with DH over how he spent it, because it was 100% his.)

Those underlying needs are always valid, even though the ways we meet them are sometimes less than optimal.  Excess spending is the symptom, not the cause.  But if you get mad at the spending, she will absolutely hear it as criticizing that underlying need.  If you want to work through these sorts of disagreements successfully, you have to start by understading what her "why" is, and then treating that "why" as totally legitimate and necessary for her happiness.  She needs to know that her priorities matter to you, and vice-versa.  Once you guys have that level of trust in each other, then you can better negotiate ways to meet those needs that don't involve either excess spending or excess miserliness.

[lhamo]

OP, not sure if you ever listen to/watch Ramit Sethi's stuff, but he interviews a LOT of couples with similar issues to yours.  If you/your partner are open to it, applying to be on his show might be an interesting exercise for you.

If you don't want to be that public, you might try a mini-version of what he typically does on your own.  Basically look more deeply into your past histories with money and -- as @Laura33 did above -- try to figure out what some of the psychological underpinnings of your spending and saving habits are.  You may never resolve the differences in your approaches to money, but with better understanding of yourselves and each other, maybe you can avoid most of the conflict about it.  Having separate small spending/saving buckets for each of you is one way to do this.  Or even large spending buckets.  As mentioned above, my relationship with my STBX became MUCH less fraught once we had split the finances.  He could buy however much crypto and bike touring gear he wanted while I bought index funds.

[G-String]

Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.   

On another note, this is pretty strong evidence of something else we’ve been telling you, that regardless of whether you or she wants it to happen or have been trying to avoid it, the kids are starting to see you as a father figure.

The youngest, the 6 year old girl is really attached to me and my GF knows it too.  But is it not possible that I can be friends with the kids?  You might be right, but why is the assumption that they see me as a father figure?  The kids have lots of adults in their family and don't assume they are father figures. 

[Villanelle]

More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

I'm going to suggest you move this convo over to your other thread about this, rather than continuing it here.  Might make more sense there.
~~~~

It makes sense the kids would be upset.  You've become a father figure to them and you weren't invited to a family event.  I know you've been claiming that some of the kids (the little ones) just know you as "mom's friend".  I can assure you that kids are upset when mom doesn't invite some rando adult friend to their party.  They get upset when mom doesn't invite someone who they see as immediate family--like a father--to their party.

Also, the fact that your girlfriend was so upset over a fight that she vommited and your reaction is to ask if it is normal, is, well... not normal.  No, she's not okay.  None of this is okay.  And every minute you continue it, the damage get deeper.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  Tht's not a judgement.  It's a lot; I wouldn't be equipped to deal with it either.  You've got the 4 kids factor and the single mom factor and the messy Ex factor and the history of abuse factor and the very clear evidence of ongoing trauma responses and trauma guided behavior factor, and the terrified of even the slightest disagreement factor and the resentment from what you feel were lies at the beginnign factor, and the not enough tiem for you factor.  And probably more.  That's a lot of factors.

You are not equipped to do all this.  This is not a healthy relationship.  It's not okay.   

[Raenia]

My wife and I tend to fight about money at times. As we get closer hitting our 4% number I get very frustrated at the idea of spending more money. We have plenty of money by far, but the problem is that I look at our annual spending and stache and see that we're close to 25x spending. So the idea of increasing spending makes me question things my wife spends money on.

I don't really question things that we spend on together, but anything that is just for her gets on my nerves and leads to a fight. I don't like being like this. It just happens.

Our budget has an agreed upon "fun money" amount for each of us that we're allowed to spend without approval from the other person, but everything else has to be jointly agreed upon. Maybe an idea?

We do this as well - each of us has a "personal" budget that we can spend however we like without talking it over with the other person. Though sometimes we will discuss, if we want input. This covers things like clothes, lunches out on workdays, gifts, hobbies, etc. We also sometimes use it to supplement the household budget - for example, we need to get a printer, but we'll probably get a nicer one than we 'need' because of DH's bookbinding hobby, so he'll cover the difference out of personal.

Also, don't feel like you necessarily have to have the same "personal" budget. As Laura mentioned, different people have different needs, and her spending may be meeting a psychological need of hers. While working out what that is, it's fine to give her a greater budget than you want for yourself. DH has a bigger budget than I do, because he has some more expensive hobbies, plus I get to 'hide' some of my hobby spending in our food budget - which I think is perfectly fair, since I'm also saving money from our food budget by having those hobbies.

[G-String]

More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

I'm going to suggest you move this convo over to your other thread about this, rather than continuing it here.  Might make more sense there.
~~~~

It makes sense the kids would be upset.  You've become a father figure to them and you weren't invited to a family event.  I know you've been claiming that some of the kids (the little ones) just know you as "mom's friend".  I can assure you that kids are upset when mom doesn't invite some rando adult friend to their party.  They get upset when mom doesn't invite someone who they see as immediate family--like a father--to their party.

Also, the fact that your girlfriend was so upset over a fight that she vommited and your reaction is to ask if it is normal, is, well... not normal.  No, she's not okay.  None of this is okay.  And every minute you continue it, the damage get deeper.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  Tht's not a judgement.  It's a lot; I wouldn't be equipped to deal with it either.  You've got the 4 kids factor and the single mom factor and the messy Ex factor and the history of abuse factor and the very clear evidence of ongoing trauma responses and trauma guided behavior factor, and the terrified of even the slightest disagreement factor and the resentment from what you feel were lies at the beginnign factor, and the not enough tiem for you factor.  And probably more.  That's a lot of factors.

You are not equipped to do all this.  This is not a healthy relationship.  It's not okay.

It was not a fight.  It was a calm conversation over the phone.  She she says she threw up because her little girl had a stomach bug earlier this week.  I am simply wondering if it is related to the phone conversation. 

[Villanelle]

More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

I'm going to suggest you move this convo over to your other thread about this, rather than continuing it here.  Might make more sense there.
~~~~

It makes sense the kids would be upset.  You've become a father figure to them and you weren't invited to a family event.  I know you've been claiming that some of the kids (the little ones) just know you as "mom's friend".  I can assure you that kids are upset when mom doesn't invite some rando adult friend to their party.  They get upset when mom doesn't invite someone who they see as immediate family--like a father--to their party.

Also, the fact that your girlfriend was so upset over a fight that she vommited and your reaction is to ask if it is normal, is, well... not normal.  No, she's not okay.  None of this is okay.  And every minute you continue it, the damage get deeper.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  Tht's not a judgement.  It's a lot; I wouldn't be equipped to deal with it either.  You've got the 4 kids factor and the single mom factor and the messy Ex factor and the history of abuse factor and the very clear evidence of ongoing trauma responses and trauma guided behavior factor, and the terrified of even the slightest disagreement factor and the resentment from what you feel were lies at the beginnign factor, and the not enough tiem for you factor.  And probably more.  That's a lot of factors.

You are not equipped to do all this.  This is not a healthy relationship.  It's not okay.

It was not a fight.  It was a calm conversation over the phone.  She she says she threw up because her little girl had a stomach bug earlier this week.  I am simply wondering if it is related to the phone conversation.

Yes, it is entirely possible it is related.  And while you may not categorize it as a "fight", you had a conversation where you were "upset" and the kids were "upset", and it was enough to make you at least wonder if the vomiting was related, so if it wasn't a "fight", it certainly wasn't rainbow and kittens. You had some reason to question whether the vomiting was a result of the conversation.  Even if it was calm, it clearly wasn't perfectly agreeable. For a recently-abused woman still dealing with her abusive Ex and the resulting deep trauma, it may not take much to drive that level of reaction.  No, it's not "normal" for an average, healthy adult.  And that's kinda the point. 

So taking out the word "fight", I repeat the rest of my post.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  You are almost certainly actively damaging this woman, and her kids.  That becomes more clear every time you post about this fiasco of a relationship. 

[GuitarStv]

Honestly, my wife and I have relatively few arguments.  When we do they tend to be driven by external stressors rather than real conflicts between each other.  We have never argued about money.  Most of our arguments in the past ten years have been about how best to deal with problems that have arisen while raising our son.

The goal of a relationship is to try to help each other through life's challenges.  You're probably going to have things that you disagree on, but these shouldn't often lead to feelings of resentment and anger.

[G-String]

More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

I'm going to suggest you move this convo over to your other thread about this, rather than continuing it here.  Might make more sense there.
~~~~

It makes sense the kids would be upset.  You've become a father figure to them and you weren't invited to a family event.  I know you've been claiming that some of the kids (the little ones) just know you as "mom's friend".  I can assure you that kids are upset when mom doesn't invite some rando adult friend to their party.  They get upset when mom doesn't invite someone who they see as immediate family--like a father--to their party.

Also, the fact that your girlfriend was so upset over a fight that she vommited and your reaction is to ask if it is normal, is, well... not normal.  No, she's not okay.  None of this is okay.  And every minute you continue it, the damage get deeper.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  Tht's not a judgement.  It's a lot; I wouldn't be equipped to deal with it either.  You've got the 4 kids factor and the single mom factor and the messy Ex factor and the history of abuse factor and the very clear evidence of ongoing trauma responses and trauma guided behavior factor, and the terrified of even the slightest disagreement factor and the resentment from what you feel were lies at the beginnign factor, and the not enough tiem for you factor.  And probably more.  That's a lot of factors.

You are not equipped to do all this.  This is not a healthy relationship.  It's not okay.

It was not a fight.  It was a calm conversation over the phone.  She she says she threw up because her little girl had a stomach bug earlier this week.  I am simply wondering if it is related to the phone conversation.

Yes, it is entirely possible it is related.  And while you may not categorize it as a "fight", you had a conversation where you were "upset" and the kids were "upset", and it was enough to make you at least wonder if the vomiting was related, so if it wasn't a "fight", it certainly wasn't rainbow and kittens. You had some reason to question whether the vomiting was a result of the conversation.  Even if it was calm, it clearly wasn't perfectly agreeable. For a recently-abused woman still dealing with her abusive Ex and the resulting deep trauma, it may not take much to drive that level of reaction.  No, it's not "normal" for an average, healthy adult.  And that's kinda the point. 

So taking out the word "fight", I repeat the rest of my post.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  You are almost certainly actively damaging this woman, and her kids.  That becomes more clear every time you post about this fiasco of a relationship.

While I agree with you that I may not be equipped to deal with all of these issues, I think it is harsh to say I am damaging her and her kids.  She has told me many times how thankful she is for my support and for helping her and her kids through this.  I listen and talk with her every day multiple times about her custody issues and other life challenges she deals with as a single mom.  And trust me she is no angel either, I deal with her toxic behaviors on a regular basis. 

[Omy]

We have separate "slush" funds and it works great.

We are pretty aligned when it comes to money, but I was concerned that I would start evaluating spending much more closely after we FIREd. I really didn't want to introduce money issues into our relationship, so I suggested this approach.

DH was skeptical, but we set it up so that there was enough money in each of our accounts for our hobby and discretionary spending - and add to it every month. Last year we even doubled our monthly allowances.

Before slush we agreed that independent spending over $100 should be discussed. We generally agreed to each other's spending, but there were never any surprises this way.

Once we implemented slush, we rarely discuss individual purchases. If we have it in slush it can be spent without discussion.

[Metalcat]

More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

I'm going to suggest you move this convo over to your other thread about this, rather than continuing it here.  Might make more sense there.
~~~~

It makes sense the kids would be upset.  You've become a father figure to them and you weren't invited to a family event.  I know you've been claiming that some of the kids (the little ones) just know you as "mom's friend".  I can assure you that kids are upset when mom doesn't invite some rando adult friend to their party.  They get upset when mom doesn't invite someone who they see as immediate family--like a father--to their party.

Also, the fact that your girlfriend was so upset over a fight that she vommited and your reaction is to ask if it is normal, is, well... not normal.  No, she's not okay.  None of this is okay.  And every minute you continue it, the damage get deeper.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  Tht's not a judgement.  It's a lot; I wouldn't be equipped to deal with it either.  You've got the 4 kids factor and the single mom factor and the messy Ex factor and the history of abuse factor and the very clear evidence of ongoing trauma responses and trauma guided behavior factor, and the terrified of even the slightest disagreement factor and the resentment from what you feel were lies at the beginnign factor, and the not enough tiem for you factor.  And probably more.  That's a lot of factors.

You are not equipped to do all this.  This is not a healthy relationship.  It's not okay.

It was not a fight.  It was a calm conversation over the phone.  She she says she threw up because her little girl had a stomach bug earlier this week.  I am simply wondering if it is related to the phone conversation.

Yes, it is entirely possible it is related.  And while you may not categorize it as a "fight", you had a conversation where you were "upset" and the kids were "upset", and it was enough to make you at least wonder if the vomiting was related, so if it wasn't a "fight", it certainly wasn't rainbow and kittens. You had some reason to question whether the vomiting was a result of the conversation.  Even if it was calm, it clearly wasn't perfectly agreeable. For a recently-abused woman still dealing with her abusive Ex and the resulting deep trauma, it may not take much to drive that level of reaction.  No, it's not "normal" for an average, healthy adult.  And that's kinda the point. 

So taking out the word "fight", I repeat the rest of my post.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  You are almost certainly actively damaging this woman, and her kids.  That becomes more clear every time you post about this fiasco of a relationship.

While I agree with you that I may not be equipped to deal with all of these issues, I think it is harsh to say I am damaging her and her kids.  She has told me many times how thankful she is for my support and for helping her and her kids through this.  I listen and talk with her every day multiple times about her custody issues and other life challenges she deals with as a single mom.  And trust me she is no angel either, I deal with her toxic behaviors on a regular basis.

I'm going to remind you that everything people are assuming about your relationship is based on how you talk about your relationship.

[G-String]

More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

I'm going to suggest you move this convo over to your other thread about this, rather than continuing it here.  Might make more sense there.
~~~~

It makes sense the kids would be upset.  You've become a father figure to them and you weren't invited to a family event.  I know you've been claiming that some of the kids (the little ones) just know you as "mom's friend".  I can assure you that kids are upset when mom doesn't invite some rando adult friend to their party.  They get upset when mom doesn't invite someone who they see as immediate family--like a father--to their party.

Also, the fact that your girlfriend was so upset over a fight that she vommited and your reaction is to ask if it is normal, is, well... not normal.  No, she's not okay.  None of this is okay.  And every minute you continue it, the damage get deeper.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  Tht's not a judgement.  It's a lot; I wouldn't be equipped to deal with it either.  You've got the 4 kids factor and the single mom factor and the messy Ex factor and the history of abuse factor and the very clear evidence of ongoing trauma responses and trauma guided behavior factor, and the terrified of even the slightest disagreement factor and the resentment from what you feel were lies at the beginnign factor, and the not enough tiem for you factor.  And probably more.  That's a lot of factors.

You are not equipped to do all this.  This is not a healthy relationship.  It's not okay.

It was not a fight.  It was a calm conversation over the phone.  She she says she threw up because her little girl had a stomach bug earlier this week.  I am simply wondering if it is related to the phone conversation.

Yes, it is entirely possible it is related.  And while you may not categorize it as a "fight", you had a conversation where you were "upset" and the kids were "upset", and it was enough to make you at least wonder if the vomiting was related, so if it wasn't a "fight", it certainly wasn't rainbow and kittens. You had some reason to question whether the vomiting was a result of the conversation.  Even if it was calm, it clearly wasn't perfectly agreeable. For a recently-abused woman still dealing with her abusive Ex and the resulting deep trauma, it may not take much to drive that level of reaction.  No, it's not "normal" for an average, healthy adult.  And that's kinda the point. 

So taking out the word "fight", I repeat the rest of my post.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  You are almost certainly actively damaging this woman, and her kids.  That becomes more clear every time you post about this fiasco of a relationship.

While I agree with you that I may not be equipped to deal with all of these issues, I think it is harsh to say I am damaging her and her kids.  She has told me many times how thankful she is for my support and for helping her and her kids through this.  I listen and talk with her every day multiple times about her custody issues and other life challenges she deals with as a single mom.  And trust me she is no angel either, I deal with her toxic behaviors on a regular basis.

I'm going to remind you that everything people are assuming about your relationship is based on how you talk about your relationship.

Fair enough.  I obviously only talk about the issues in our relationship here, which tends to be negative things, because that is what I am looking for a solution for.

[Laura33]

Also, don't feel like you necessarily have to have the same "personal" budget. As Laura mentioned, different people have different needs, and her spending may be meeting a psychological need of hers. While working out what that is, it's fine to give her a greater budget than you want for yourself.

Or do what we do:  both people get the same fun money, but I just put mine into savings/investment.  ;-)  My driving need was always to come in under-budget on spending and over-budget on savings, and so budgeting money for me to spend, which I then put into savings, met that need.

(He did have a particular hobby that we budgeted out of the joint monies, in addition to the extra fun money.  But I figured that I benefited from that myself -- both in terms of the things he made me, and in the much more important bonus that he didn't completely lose his shit twiddling his thumbs while I was working my longer-hours-plus-commute.)

[Metalcat]

Fair enough.  I obviously only talk about the issues in our relationship here, which tends to be negative things, because that is what I am looking for a solution for.

It's not the fact that you only talk about issues, people have been coming here talking about issues for ages. It's the fact that the way you talk about your girlfriend oozes profound disrespect for her.

Perhaps this isn't accurate, but I'm telling you, that's the message everyone gets and it's extremely unsettling for folks reading.

I would do some reflection as to why that is.

[Omy]

Individual and couples therapy is the answer. You and she are not equipped to figure this out on your own.

[G-String]

Fair enough.  I obviously only talk about the issues in our relationship here, which tends to be negative things, because that is what I am looking for a solution for.

It's not the fact that you only talk about issues, people have been coming here talking about issues for ages. It's the fact that the way you talk about your girlfriend oozes profound disrespect for her.

Perhaps this isn't accurate, but I'm telling you, that's the message everyone gets and it's extremely unsettling for folks reading.

I would do some reflection as to why that is.

It is probably my writing style as I am very blunt when I write. 

[InterfaceLeader]

The youngest, the 6 year old girl is really attached to me and my GF knows it too.  But is it not possible that I can be friends with the kids?  You might be right, but why is the assumption that they see me as a father figure?  The kids have lots of adults in their family and don't assume they are father figures.

It is not possible for adults to be friends with kids, because friendship is predicated on a fairly equal balance of power and all adults hold more power than kids.

As an adult in a relationship with their mother, the only way you could not be a father figure is if you are not introduced to them at all. That's why so many single parents are extremely wary about introducing their partners to their kids. At a bare minimum you are modelling relationships for them.

[Laura33]

The youngest, the 6 year old girl is really attached to me and my GF knows it too.  But is it not possible that I can be friends with the kids?  You might be right, but why is the assumption that they see me as a father figure?  The kids have lots of adults in their family and don't assume they are father figures.

The thing is, you don't get to decide whether a kid sees you as a father figure -- the kid does.  And you can't predict who will and who won't. 

Bigger-picture impression:  You are working way, way too hard to make a young relationship work.  Over months, you've consistently asked versions of "is this normal?"  The answer doesn't matter.  The fact that you have had to ask that question so many times over such a short period of time suggests that you guys are not even close to on the same page about some really important things. 

Please look at what is, instead of what you want it to be.  Are the kids seeing you as a father figure?  The evidence says they do, so what's the point of arguing whether and why?  Is her behavior normal?  Well, it's normal for her.  So is that behavior something you're willing to live with, as-is?  Or are you hanging around thinking "if only" XYZ would happen, you could "fix" her back to what you see as "normal," and everything would be ok.  She is who she is.  Either you love who that is and are willing to accept her on that basis, as is, right now, or this isn't the right relationship at the right time. 

Seriously.  No one on God's green earth is ever obligated to be "normal" -- and no one else is qualified even to say what "normal" is.  The point of dating is to find someone whose version of not-normal meshes with your version of not-normal -- and in a healthy way, not in a "my abuse victim matches perfectly with your savior complex" way.

[G-String]

The youngest, the 6 year old girl is really attached to me and my GF knows it too.  But is it not possible that I can be friends with the kids?  You might be right, but why is the assumption that they see me as a father figure?  The kids have lots of adults in their family and don't assume they are father figures.

The thing is, you don't get to decide whether a kid sees you as a father figure -- the kid does.  And you can't predict who will and who won't. 

Bigger-picture impression:  You are working way, way too hard to make a young relationship work.  Over months, you've consistently asked versions of "is this normal?"  The answer doesn't matter.  The fact that you have had to ask that question so many times over such a short period of time suggests that you guys are not even close to on the same page about some really important things. 

Please look at what is, instead of what you want it to be.  Are the kids seeing you as a father figure?  The evidence says they do, so what's the point of arguing whether and why?  Is her behavior normal?  Well, it's normal for her.  So is that behavior something you're willing to live with, as-is?  Or are you hanging around thinking "if only" XYZ would happen, you could "fix" her back to what you see as "normal," and everything would be ok.  She is who she is.  Either you love who that is and are willing to accept her on that basis, as is, right now, or this isn't the right relationship at the right time. 

Seriously.  No one on God's green earth is ever obligated to be "normal" -- and no one else is qualified even to say what "normal" is.  The point of dating is to find someone whose version of not-normal meshes with your version of not-normal -- and in a healthy way, not in a "my abuse victim matches perfectly with your savior complex" way.

As I mentioned in another post, I recently asked my GF to discuss our incompatibilities.  She see this as me "starting drama" and refuses to discus the issues.  I said she is stonewalling by refusing to discuss our issues.  She says she is "keeping the peace". 

[Metalcat]

Fair enough.  I obviously only talk about the issues in our relationship here, which tends to be negative things, because that is what I am looking for a solution for.

It's not the fact that you only talk about issues, people have been coming here talking about issues for ages. It's the fact that the way you talk about your girlfriend oozes profound disrespect for her.

Perhaps this isn't accurate, but I'm telling you, that's the message everyone gets and it's extremely unsettling for folks reading.

I would do some reflection as to why that is.

It is probably my writing style as I am very blunt when I write.

So am I, but no one has ever come at me thinking I'm cruel to someone I say I love.

Again, you can choose to reflect deeply on why every time you talk about your girlfriend people freak out, or you can just dismiss everyone like you always do.

Up to you.

[the_hobbitish]

It's unrealistic to expect young children not to see you as a father figure when you are dating their mother. You've mentioned they have other adult men in their life, but none of those people is dating their mother. That is a potentially damaging situation for everyone involved.

If you want to continue this relationship and you want everyone involved to be healthy then everyone involved is going to need support from knowledgeable people ie therapy.

It is not realistic to think that all these factors are going to work out without damage unless the whole family gets help. There is a reason why many people on the forum are concerned.

[Captain FIRE]

As I mentioned in another post, I recently asked my GF to discuss our incompatibilities.  She see this as me "starting drama" and refuses to discus the issues.  I said she is stonewalling by refusing to discuss our issues.  She says she is "keeping the peace".

How DO you react during arguments? Obviously your gf is traumatized by a prior relationship but I start to wonder if in addition to her (perfectly understandable) sensitive reaction, it might also be true that your approach is overly aggressive if she avoids conflict with you and throws up/upset. Consider asking several (not just one…) friends who you know will be bluntly honest (but ideally are pretty levelheaded) to describe how you handle conflict and see what the themes are. Ideally you’d talk to a professional- I’m only suggesting this because I suspect you won’t go.

[Laura33]

The youngest, the 6 year old girl is really attached to me and my GF knows it too.  But is it not possible that I can be friends with the kids?  You might be right, but why is the assumption that they see me as a father figure?  The kids have lots of adults in their family and don't assume they are father figures.

The thing is, you don't get to decide whether a kid sees you as a father figure -- the kid does.  And you can't predict who will and who won't. 

Bigger-picture impression:  You are working way, way too hard to make a young relationship work.  Over months, you've consistently asked versions of "is this normal?"  The answer doesn't matter.  The fact that you have had to ask that question so many times over such a short period of time suggests that you guys are not even close to on the same page about some really important things. 

Please look at what is, instead of what you want it to be.  Are the kids seeing you as a father figure?  The evidence says they do, so what's the point of arguing whether and why?  Is her behavior normal?  Well, it's normal for her.  So is that behavior something you're willing to live with, as-is?  Or are you hanging around thinking "if only" XYZ would happen, you could "fix" her back to what you see as "normal," and everything would be ok.  She is who she is.  Either you love who that is and are willing to accept her on that basis, as is, right now, or this isn't the right relationship at the right time. 

Seriously.  No one on God's green earth is ever obligated to be "normal" -- and no one else is qualified even to say what "normal" is.  The point of dating is to find someone whose version of not-normal meshes with your version of not-normal -- and in a healthy way, not in a "my abuse victim matches perfectly with your savior complex" way.

As I mentioned in another post, I recently asked my GF to discuss our incompatibilities.  She see this as me "starting drama" and refuses to discus the issues.  I said she is stonewalling by refusing to discuss our issues.  She says she is "keeping the peace".

And what was your response?

She has told you, in no uncertain terms, that she is unable/unwilling to discuss the hard issues.  That is who she is.  Your choice is binary:  (1) you decide to accept her, as-is, faults and all, no expectations that anything will change, and stop questioning every interaction/disagreement/way she does things; or (2) you walk.

You are searching desperately for option 3:  she suddenly understands your point of view, agrees that you are right, and is willing to change and behave/talk/open up in the way you would like her to. 

Option 3 exists only in the same world where unicorns fart rainbows.  Sure, maybe she will get there eventually, after years of therapy and working on her traumas.  But she's not there now.  And there is literally nothing you can do or say that will provide some sort of "aha!" moment when she will get it and change.  In fact, the more you expect her to make changes she is not ready for, the more damage you do both yourself and her (and her kids, as collateral damage).

You have previously said you have a history of hanging on to relationships too long.  All of your posts over the past couple of months demonstrate that this current relationship is Exhibit A of that tendency.  Please ask yourself why this particular person is so important to you that you need to go through daily/weekly drama to try to make things work. 

(Hint:  "I love her" is not an acceptable answer.  You can absolutely love someone and still not be able to live with them, or at least not in a healthy way.  I mean, addicts love their fix, too, right?) 

[G-String]

The youngest, the 6 year old girl is really attached to me and my GF knows it too.  But is it not possible that I can be friends with the kids?  You might be right, but why is the assumption that they see me as a father figure?  The kids have lots of adults in their family and don't assume they are father figures.

The thing is, you don't get to decide whether a kid sees you as a father figure -- the kid does.  And you can't predict who will and who won't. 

Bigger-picture impression:  You are working way, way too hard to make a young relationship work.  Over months, you've consistently asked versions of "is this normal?"  The answer doesn't matter.  The fact that you have had to ask that question so many times over such a short period of time suggests that you guys are not even close to on the same page about some really important things. 

Please look at what is, instead of what you want it to be.  Are the kids seeing you as a father figure?  The evidence says they do, so what's the point of arguing whether and why?  Is her behavior normal?  Well, it's normal for her.  So is that behavior something you're willing to live with, as-is?  Or are you hanging around thinking "if only" XYZ would happen, you could "fix" her back to what you see as "normal," and everything would be ok.  She is who she is.  Either you love who that is and are willing to accept her on that basis, as is, right now, or this isn't the right relationship at the right time. 

Seriously.  No one on God's green earth is ever obligated to be "normal" -- and no one else is qualified even to say what "normal" is.  The point of dating is to find someone whose version of not-normal meshes with your version of not-normal -- and in a healthy way, not in a "my abuse victim matches perfectly with your savior complex" way.

As I mentioned in another post, I recently asked my GF to discuss our incompatibilities.  She see this as me "starting drama" and refuses to discus the issues.  I said she is stonewalling by refusing to discuss our issues.  She says she is "keeping the peace".

And what was your response?

She has told you, in no uncertain terms, that she is unable/unwilling to discuss the hard issues.  That is who she is.  Your choice is binary:  (1) you decide to accept her, as-is, faults and all, no expectations that anything will change, and stop questioning every interaction/disagreement/way she does things; or (2) you walk.

You are searching desperately for option 3:  she suddenly understands your point of view, agrees that you are right, and is willing to change and behave/talk/open up in the way you would like her to. 

Option 3 exists only in the same world where unicorns fart rainbows.  Sure, maybe she will get there eventually, after years of therapy and working on her traumas.  But she's not there now.  And there is literally nothing you can do or say that will provide some sort of "aha!" moment when she will get it and change.  In fact, the more you expect her to make changes she is not ready for, the more damage you do both yourself and her (and her kids, as collateral damage).

You have previously said you have a history of hanging on to relationships too long.  All of your posts over the past couple of months demonstrate that this current relationship is Exhibit A of that tendency.  Please ask yourself why this particular person is so important to you that you need to go through daily/weekly drama to try to make things work. 

(Hint:  "I love her" is not an acceptable answer.  You can absolutely love someone and still not be able to live with them, or at least not in a healthy way.  I mean, addicts love their fix, too, right?)

Very logical and rational response...I definitely appreciate that. You are absolutely right.  What keeps me holding to the relationship is that things have gotten better recently and I see potential in the relationship. 

I have noticed that she seems to respond better serious issues via text.  Like if I text her my thoughts on issues, she will unusually not respond, but I will see her make changes based on what I texted her.  But if I try to discuss verbally either in person or over the phone, she shuts down. 

And a couple months ago I started seeing a therapist to discuss our relationship and she told me very similar options to what you have outlined. 

I have not told her I love her.  That is something I take very seriously and we are simply not there yet, but I care very much care for her, and I see us getting there at one point. 

[Villanelle]

More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

I'm going to suggest you move this convo over to your other thread about this, rather than continuing it here.  Might make more sense there.
~~~~

It makes sense the kids would be upset.  You've become a father figure to them and you weren't invited to a family event.  I know you've been claiming that some of the kids (the little ones) just know you as "mom's friend".  I can assure you that kids are upset when mom doesn't invite some rando adult friend to their party.  They get upset when mom doesn't invite someone who they see as immediate family--like a father--to their party.

Also, the fact that your girlfriend was so upset over a fight that she vommited and your reaction is to ask if it is normal, is, well... not normal.  No, she's not okay.  None of this is okay.  And every minute you continue it, the damage get deeper.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  Tht's not a judgement.  It's a lot; I wouldn't be equipped to deal with it either.  You've got the 4 kids factor and the single mom factor and the messy Ex factor and the history of abuse factor and the very clear evidence of ongoing trauma responses and trauma guided behavior factor, and the terrified of even the slightest disagreement factor and the resentment from what you feel were lies at the beginnign factor, and the not enough tiem for you factor.  And probably more.  That's a lot of factors.

You are not equipped to do all this.  This is not a healthy relationship.  It's not okay.

It was not a fight.  It was a calm conversation over the phone.  She she says she threw up because her little girl had a stomach bug earlier this week.  I am simply wondering if it is related to the phone conversation.

Yes, it is entirely possible it is related.  And while you may not categorize it as a "fight", you had a conversation where you were "upset" and the kids were "upset", and it was enough to make you at least wonder if the vomiting was related, so if it wasn't a "fight", it certainly wasn't rainbow and kittens. You had some reason to question whether the vomiting was a result of the conversation.  Even if it was calm, it clearly wasn't perfectly agreeable. For a recently-abused woman still dealing with her abusive Ex and the resulting deep trauma, it may not take much to drive that level of reaction.  No, it's not "normal" for an average, healthy adult.  And that's kinda the point. 

So taking out the word "fight", I repeat the rest of my post.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  You are almost certainly actively damaging this woman, and her kids.  That becomes more clear every time you post about this fiasco of a relationship.

While I agree with you that I may not be equipped to deal with all of these issues, I think it is harsh to say I am damaging her and her kids.  She has told me many times how thankful she is for my support and for helping her and her kids through this.  I listen and talk with her every day multiple times about her custody issues and other life challenges she deals with as a single mom.  And trust me she is no angel either, I deal with her toxic behaviors on a regular basis.

[/b]

Read this and think about it. 

I don't know what else to say.  This is beginning to belong in the "everyone sees it except the OP" thread.

If I ever for one second considered a person I was dating as "toxic", that would be the end of things.  (And yes, you know you said it was her behaviors, not her, and will likely fall back on that split hair.)

I've said similar before about this, and your recent post just reenforce it.  It think you are in love with the idea of this woman and who you thought she might become to you or who you think she could be if only a few things changed. Or you are in love with the idea of being in a relationship and trying to shoehorn this woman into your vision.  Because it doesn't seem like you actually like or respect her very much.  It doesn't seem like you enjoy the life you have with her.  It doesn't seem like you feel the relationship is healhty (and it isn't; not being able to have a basic conversation without being accused of causing drama, and not being able to talk something out without puking is NOT HEALTHY!). 

You can choose to be defensive and deny why multiple people--some of them incredibly smart and fantastic with relationship issues, personal interactions, trauma, and personal insight--are seeing.  Or you can ask yourself if maybe there is something--a lot--to it since multiple people are seeing it .  I hope you choose the latter, because this is Not Good--and probably damaging--for everyone.  And that includes you, as well as her and those poor kids.

 And no, it's not just a blunt writing style. 

One more thing:  you said you see the "potential" in the relationship.  I've long said that when it comes to romantic relationships, "potential" is perhaps the scariest word out there.  You don't date "potential."  You don't date who someone could be.  You don't date how things would be if-only.  You date reality.  You date the person in front of you, as they are.  If you don't want to be in a relationship with exactly that person--not who they might be if-only--then you shouldn't date them.
 

[G-String]

More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

I'm going to suggest you move this convo over to your other thread about this, rather than continuing it here.  Might make more sense there.
~~~~

It makes sense the kids would be upset.  You've become a father figure to them and you weren't invited to a family event.  I know you've been claiming that some of the kids (the little ones) just know you as "mom's friend".  I can assure you that kids are upset when mom doesn't invite some rando adult friend to their party.  They get upset when mom doesn't invite someone who they see as immediate family--like a father--to their party.

Also, the fact that your girlfriend was so upset over a fight that she vommited and your reaction is to ask if it is normal, is, well... not normal.  No, she's not okay.  None of this is okay.  And every minute you continue it, the damage get deeper.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  Tht's not a judgement.  It's a lot; I wouldn't be equipped to deal with it either.  You've got the 4 kids factor and the single mom factor and the messy Ex factor and the history of abuse factor and the very clear evidence of ongoing trauma responses and trauma guided behavior factor, and the terrified of even the slightest disagreement factor and the resentment from what you feel were lies at the beginnign factor, and the not enough tiem for you factor.  And probably more.  That's a lot of factors.

You are not equipped to do all this.  This is not a healthy relationship.  It's not okay.

It was not a fight.  It was a calm conversation over the phone.  She she says she threw up because her little girl had a stomach bug earlier this week.  I am simply wondering if it is related to the phone conversation.

Yes, it is entirely possible it is related.  And while you may not categorize it as a "fight", you had a conversation where you were "upset" and the kids were "upset", and it was enough to make you at least wonder if the vomiting was related, so if it wasn't a "fight", it certainly wasn't rainbow and kittens. You had some reason to question whether the vomiting was a result of the conversation.  Even if it was calm, it clearly wasn't perfectly agreeable. For a recently-abused woman still dealing with her abusive Ex and the resulting deep trauma, it may not take much to drive that level of reaction.  No, it's not "normal" for an average, healthy adult.  And that's kinda the point. 

So taking out the word "fight", I repeat the rest of my post.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  You are almost certainly actively damaging this woman, and her kids.  That becomes more clear every time you post about this fiasco of a relationship.

While I agree with you that I may not be equipped to deal with all of these issues, I think it is harsh to say I am damaging her and her kids.  She has told me many times how thankful she is for my support and for helping her and her kids through this.  I listen and talk with her every day multiple times about her custody issues and other life challenges she deals with as a single mom.  And trust me she is no angel either, I deal with her toxic behaviors on a regular basis.

[/b]

Read this and think about it. 

I don't know what else to say.  This is beginning to belong in the "everyone sees it except the OP" thread.

If I ever for one second considered a person I was dating as "toxic", that would be the end of things.  (And yes, you know you said it was her behaviors, not her, and will likely fall back on that split hair.)

I've said similar before about this, and your recent post just reenforce it.  It think you are in love with the idea of this woman and who you thought she might become to you or who you think she could be if only a few things changed. Or you are in love with the idea of being in a relationship and trying to shoehorn this woman into your vision.  Because it doesn't seem like you actually like or respect her very much.  It doesn't seem like you enjoy the life you have with her.  It doesn't seem like you feel the relationship is healhty (and it isn't; not being able to have a basic conversation without being accused of causing drama, and not being able to talk something out without puking is NOT HEALTHY!). 

You can choose to be defensive and deny why multiple people--some of them incredibly smart and fantastic with relationship issues, personal interactions, trauma, and personal insight--are seeing.  Or you can ask yourself if maybe there is something--a lot--to it since multiple people are seeing it .  I hope you choose the latter, because this is Not Good--and probably damaging--for everyone.  And that includes you, as well as her and those poor kids.

 And no, it's not just a blunt writing style. 

One more thing:  you said you see the "potential" in the relationship.  I've long said that when it comes to romantic relationships, "potential" is perhaps the scariest word out there.  You don't date "potential."  You don't date who someone could be.  You don't date how things would be if-only.  You date reality.  You date the person in front of you, as they are.  If you don't want to be in a relationship with exactly that person--not who they might be if-only--then you shouldn't date them.

Thank you, I needed this. She 100% has toxic behaviors. And I think I need the strength to end the relationship, but as I mentioned earlier, I have difficulty ending relationships and I often hang on way too long.  I have told her many times what I need from or relationship and she either doesn't care, or doesn't listen.  I know 100% she can meet what I am looking for.  But she doesn't want to.  For example, when she needs something from me, she has time available to spend together.  But when she doesn't need something from me, she has no or very little desire to see me. 

[Metalcat]

More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

I'm going to suggest you move this convo over to your other thread about this, rather than continuing it here.  Might make more sense there.
~~~~

It makes sense the kids would be upset.  You've become a father figure to them and you weren't invited to a family event.  I know you've been claiming that some of the kids (the little ones) just know you as "mom's friend".  I can assure you that kids are upset when mom doesn't invite some rando adult friend to their party.  They get upset when mom doesn't invite someone who they see as immediate family--like a father--to their party.

Also, the fact that your girlfriend was so upset over a fight that she vommited and your reaction is to ask if it is normal, is, well... not normal.  No, she's not okay.  None of this is okay.  And every minute you continue it, the damage get deeper.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  Tht's not a judgement.  It's a lot; I wouldn't be equipped to deal with it either.  You've got the 4 kids factor and the single mom factor and the messy Ex factor and the history of abuse factor and the very clear evidence of ongoing trauma responses and trauma guided behavior factor, and the terrified of even the slightest disagreement factor and the resentment from what you feel were lies at the beginnign factor, and the not enough tiem for you factor.  And probably more.  That's a lot of factors.

You are not equipped to do all this.  This is not a healthy relationship.  It's not okay.

It was not a fight.  It was a calm conversation over the phone.  She she says she threw up because her little girl had a stomach bug earlier this week.  I am simply wondering if it is related to the phone conversation.

Yes, it is entirely possible it is related.  And while you may not categorize it as a "fight", you had a conversation where you were "upset" and the kids were "upset", and it was enough to make you at least wonder if the vomiting was related, so if it wasn't a "fight", it certainly wasn't rainbow and kittens. You had some reason to question whether the vomiting was a result of the conversation.  Even if it was calm, it clearly wasn't perfectly agreeable. For a recently-abused woman still dealing with her abusive Ex and the resulting deep trauma, it may not take much to drive that level of reaction.  No, it's not "normal" for an average, healthy adult.  And that's kinda the point. 

So taking out the word "fight", I repeat the rest of my post.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  You are almost certainly actively damaging this woman, and her kids.  That becomes more clear every time you post about this fiasco of a relationship.

While I agree with you that I may not be equipped to deal with all of these issues, I think it is harsh to say I am damaging her and her kids.  She has told me many times how thankful she is for my support and for helping her and her kids through this.  I listen and talk with her every day multiple times about her custody issues and other life challenges she deals with as a single mom.  And trust me she is no angel either, I deal with her toxic behaviors on a regular basis.

[/b]

Read this and think about it. 

I don't know what else to say.  This is beginning to belong in the "everyone sees it except the OP" thread.

If I ever for one second considered a person I was dating as "toxic", that would be the end of things.  (And yes, you know you said it was her behaviors, not her, and will likely fall back on that split hair.)

I've said similar before about this, and your recent post just reenforce it.  It think you are in love with the idea of this woman and who you thought she might become to you or who you think she could be if only a few things changed. Or you are in love with the idea of being in a relationship and trying to shoehorn this woman into your vision.  Because it doesn't seem like you actually like or respect her very much.  It doesn't seem like you enjoy the life you have with her.  It doesn't seem like you feel the relationship is healhty (and it isn't; not being able to have a basic conversation without being accused of causing drama, and not being able to talk something out without puking is NOT HEALTHY!). 

You can choose to be defensive and deny why multiple people--some of them incredibly smart and fantastic with relationship issues, personal interactions, trauma, and personal insight--are seeing.  Or you can ask yourself if maybe there is something--a lot--to it since multiple people are seeing it .  I hope you choose the latter, because this is Not Good--and probably damaging--for everyone.  And that includes you, as well as her and those poor kids.

 And no, it's not just a blunt writing style. 

One more thing:  you said you see the "potential" in the relationship.  I've long said that when it comes to romantic relationships, "potential" is perhaps the scariest word out there.  You don't date "potential."  You don't date who someone could be.  You don't date how things would be if-only.  You date reality.  You date the person in front of you, as they are.  If you don't want to be in a relationship with exactly that person--not who they might be if-only--then you shouldn't date them.

Yup.

The cruelest thing I ever did was date a guy for potential.

Multiple years of me systematically crushing his self-esteem because dating someone for who they could be equals dating someone you think isn't enough.

Communicating to someone day in and day out that they're not enough is fucking horrific.

And yeah, they tend to be super into the relationship and crazy grateful for it even though you're systematically crushing them emotionally because they also believe they aren't enough and that they should be grateful to have someone so amazing deigning to be with them.

When someone tells you constantly that they're so lucky to have you, it can be hard to see how you're a FUCKING ASSHOLE for being with them.

[Villanelle]

More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

I'm going to suggest you move this convo over to your other thread about this, rather than continuing it here.  Might make more sense there.
~~~~

It makes sense the kids would be upset.  You've become a father figure to them and you weren't invited to a family event.  I know you've been claiming that some of the kids (the little ones) just know you as "mom's friend".  I can assure you that kids are upset when mom doesn't invite some rando adult friend to their party.  They get upset when mom doesn't invite someone who they see as immediate family--like a father--to their party.

Also, the fact that your girlfriend was so upset over a fight that she vommited and your reaction is to ask if it is normal, is, well... not normal.  No, she's not okay.  None of this is okay.  And every minute you continue it, the damage get deeper.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  Tht's not a judgement.  It's a lot; I wouldn't be equipped to deal with it either.  You've got the 4 kids factor and the single mom factor and the messy Ex factor and the history of abuse factor and the very clear evidence of ongoing trauma responses and trauma guided behavior factor, and the terrified of even the slightest disagreement factor and the resentment from what you feel were lies at the beginnign factor, and the not enough tiem for you factor.  And probably more.  That's a lot of factors.

You are not equipped to do all this.  This is not a healthy relationship.  It's not okay.

It was not a fight.  It was a calm conversation over the phone.  She she says she threw up because her little girl had a stomach bug earlier this week.  I am simply wondering if it is related to the phone conversation.

Yes, it is entirely possible it is related.  And while you may not categorize it as a "fight", you had a conversation where you were "upset" and the kids were "upset", and it was enough to make you at least wonder if the vomiting was related, so if it wasn't a "fight", it certainly wasn't rainbow and kittens. You had some reason to question whether the vomiting was a result of the conversation.  Even if it was calm, it clearly wasn't perfectly agreeable. For a recently-abused woman still dealing with her abusive Ex and the resulting deep trauma, it may not take much to drive that level of reaction.  No, it's not "normal" for an average, healthy adult.  And that's kinda the point. 

So taking out the word "fight", I repeat the rest of my post.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  You are almost certainly actively damaging this woman, and her kids.  That becomes more clear every time you post about this fiasco of a relationship.

While I agree with you that I may not be equipped to deal with all of these issues, I think it is harsh to say I am damaging her and her kids.  She has told me many times how thankful she is for my support and for helping her and her kids through this.  I listen and talk with her every day multiple times about her custody issues and other life challenges she deals with as a single mom.  And trust me she is no angel either, I deal with her toxic behaviors on a regular basis.

[/b]

Read this and think about it. 

I don't know what else to say.  This is beginning to belong in the "everyone sees it except the OP" thread.

If I ever for one second considered a person I was dating as "toxic", that would be the end of things.  (And yes, you know you said it was her behaviors, not her, and will likely fall back on that split hair.)

I've said similar before about this, and your recent post just reenforce it.  It think you are in love with the idea of this woman and who you thought she might become to you or who you think she could be if only a few things changed. Or you are in love with the idea of being in a relationship and trying to shoehorn this woman into your vision.  Because it doesn't seem like you actually like or respect her very much.  It doesn't seem like you enjoy the life you have with her.  It doesn't seem like you feel the relationship is healhty (and it isn't; not being able to have a basic conversation without being accused of causing drama, and not being able to talk something out without puking is NOT HEALTHY!). 

You can choose to be defensive and deny why multiple people--some of them incredibly smart and fantastic with relationship issues, personal interactions, trauma, and personal insight--are seeing.  Or you can ask yourself if maybe there is something--a lot--to it since multiple people are seeing it .  I hope you choose the latter, because this is Not Good--and probably damaging--for everyone.  And that includes you, as well as her and those poor kids.

 And no, it's not just a blunt writing style. 

One more thing:  you said you see the "potential" in the relationship.  I've long said that when it comes to romantic relationships, "potential" is perhaps the scariest word out there.  You don't date "potential."  You don't date who someone could be.  You don't date how things would be if-only.  You date reality.  You date the person in front of you, as they are.  If you don't want to be in a relationship with exactly that person--not who they might be if-only--then you shouldn't date them.

Thank you, I needed this. She 100% has toxic behaviors. And I think I need the strength to end the relationship, but as I mentioned earlier, I have difficulty ending relationships and I often hang on way too long.  I have told her many times what I need from or relationship and she either doesn't care, or doesn't listen.  I know 100% she can meet what I am looking for.  But she doesn't want to.  For example, when she needs something from me, she has time available to spend together.  But when she doesn't need something from me, she has no or very little desire to see me.

Please find the strenght.  it is one tough conversation.  That's awful, but it's one bad conversation.  (I always advice totally cutting off contact, or almost inevitably there will be relapses. )  Tht beats multiple awkard conversations, frustrations, resentment, and confusion.  And every second you stay in this relationship--a relationship that is all-but-doomed, and even you seem to kind of see that--those kids get more attached. They are already at the point where they cry when you miss their birthday party. It may feel mean and bad to break up, but it is cruel not to. I know you bristled at that word earlier.  But I think you don't want to be cruel, and you value not being cruel.  So I use that word again, intentionally, so that maybe your desire not to be cruel can help motivate you to have the Hard Conversation.  It's already gone on too long for it to be easy, and for it not to be really hard on those kids.  Don't exacerbate that by letting it drag on even longer.

Don't tell her what she did wrong.  Don't tell her if X was different, it might have worked.  Just end it, for everyone's sake.  Including your own. 

[G-String]

More issues with my GF last night...sigh. Her little kids got upset with her cuz she didn't invite me to her sons b-day today.  I'm upset she didn't invite me too.  I do work today, but she claims she did not realize I'd want to book a day of work to go, even though she knows I have lots of vacations days I need to use.  This all happed over speaker phone last night when I was talking to her and her kids. Within a minute of this, my GF gets nauseous, sick to her stomach and starts vomiting on the toilet. Is this a normal reaction?  Was she overwhelmed that everyone was upset with her at once?

I'm going to suggest you move this convo over to your other thread about this, rather than continuing it here.  Might make more sense there.
~~~~

It makes sense the kids would be upset.  You've become a father figure to them and you weren't invited to a family event.  I know you've been claiming that some of the kids (the little ones) just know you as "mom's friend".  I can assure you that kids are upset when mom doesn't invite some rando adult friend to their party.  They get upset when mom doesn't invite someone who they see as immediate family--like a father--to their party.

Also, the fact that your girlfriend was so upset over a fight that she vommited and your reaction is to ask if it is normal, is, well... not normal.  No, she's not okay.  None of this is okay.  And every minute you continue it, the damage get deeper.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  Tht's not a judgement.  It's a lot; I wouldn't be equipped to deal with it either.  You've got the 4 kids factor and the single mom factor and the messy Ex factor and the history of abuse factor and the very clear evidence of ongoing trauma responses and trauma guided behavior factor, and the terrified of even the slightest disagreement factor and the resentment from what you feel were lies at the beginnign factor, and the not enough tiem for you factor.  And probably more.  That's a lot of factors.

You are not equipped to do all this.  This is not a healthy relationship.  It's not okay.

It was not a fight.  It was a calm conversation over the phone.  She she says she threw up because her little girl had a stomach bug earlier this week.  I am simply wondering if it is related to the phone conversation.

Yes, it is entirely possible it is related.  And while you may not categorize it as a "fight", you had a conversation where you were "upset" and the kids were "upset", and it was enough to make you at least wonder if the vomiting was related, so if it wasn't a "fight", it certainly wasn't rainbow and kittens. You had some reason to question whether the vomiting was a result of the conversation.  Even if it was calm, it clearly wasn't perfectly agreeable. For a recently-abused woman still dealing with her abusive Ex and the resulting deep trauma, it may not take much to drive that level of reaction.  No, it's not "normal" for an average, healthy adult.  And that's kinda the point. 

So taking out the word "fight", I repeat the rest of my post.  You are not equipped to deal with this.  You are almost certainly actively damaging this woman, and her kids.  That becomes more clear every time you post about this fiasco of a relationship.

While I agree with you that I may not be equipped to deal with all of these issues, I think it is harsh to say I am damaging her and her kids.  She has told me many times how thankful she is for my support and for helping her and her kids through this.  I listen and talk with her every day multiple times about her custody issues and other life challenges she deals with as a single mom.  And trust me she is no angel either, I deal with her toxic behaviors on a regular basis.

[/b]

Read this and think about it. 

I don't know what else to say.  This is beginning to belong in the "everyone sees it except the OP" thread.

If I ever for one second considered a person I was dating as "toxic", that would be the end of things.  (And yes, you know you said it was her behaviors, not her, and will likely fall back on that split hair.)

I've said similar before about this, and your recent post just reenforce it.  It think you are in love with the idea of this woman and who you thought she might become to you or who you think she could be if only a few things changed. Or you are in love with the idea of being in a relationship and trying to shoehorn this woman into your vision.  Because it doesn't seem like you actually like or respect her very much.  It doesn't seem like you enjoy the life you have with her.  It doesn't seem like you feel the relationship is healhty (and it isn't; not being able to have a basic conversation without being accused of causing drama, and not being able to talk something out without puking is NOT HEALTHY!). 

You can choose to be defensive and deny why multiple people--some of them incredibly smart and fantastic with relationship issues, personal interactions, trauma, and personal insight--are seeing.  Or you can ask yourself if maybe there is something--a lot--to it since multiple people are seeing it .  I hope you choose the latter, because this is Not Good--and probably damaging--for everyone.  And that includes you, as well as her and those poor kids.

 And no, it's not just a blunt writing style. 

One more thing:  you said you see the "potential" in the relationship.  I've long said that when it comes to romantic relationships, "potential" is perhaps the scariest word out there.  You don't date "potential."  You don't date who someone could be.  You don't date how things would be if-only.  You date reality.  You date the person in front of you, as they are.  If you don't want to be in a relationship with exactly that person--not who they might be if-only--then you shouldn't date them.

Thank you, I needed this. She 100% has toxic behaviors. And I think I need the strength to end the relationship, but as I mentioned earlier, I have difficulty ending relationships and I often hang on way too long.  I have told her many times what I need from or relationship and she either doesn't care, or doesn't listen.  I know 100% she can meet what I am looking for.  But she doesn't want to.  For example, when she needs something from me, she has time available to spend together.  But when she doesn't need something from me, she has no or very little desire to see me.

Please find the strenght.  it is one tough conversation.  That's awful, but it's one bad conversation.  (I always advice totally cutting off contact, or almost inevitably there will be relapses. )  Tht beats multiple awkard conversations, frustrations, resentment, and confusion.  And every second you stay in this relationship--a relationship that is all-but-doomed, and even you seem to kind of see that--those kids get more attached. They are already at the point where they cry when you miss their birthday party. It may feel mean and bad to break up, but it is cruel not to. I know you bristled at that word earlier.  But I think you don't want to be cruel, and you value not being cruel.  So I use that word again, intentionally, so that maybe your desire not to be cruel can help motivate you to have the Hard Conversation.  It's already gone on too long for it to be easy, and for it not to be really hard on those kids.  Don't exacerbate that by letting it drag on even longer.

Don't tell her what she did wrong.  Don't tell her if X was different, it might have worked.  Just end it, for everyone's sake.  Including your own.

To be clear, the kids did not cry.  They were upset and mad at their mom for not inviting me.  But no crying.  And yea...I just don't have the strength to end it right now.  Usually my relationships drag on way longer than they should until either there is a big blow up, or she breaks up with me. Breaking up is just not something I am good at unfortunately.   

[Metalcat]

To be clear, the kids did not cry.  They were upset and mad at their mom for not inviting me.  But no crying.  And yea...I just don't have the strength to end it right now.  Usually my relationships drag on way longer than they should until either there is a big blow up, or she breaks up with me. Breaking up is just not something I am good at unfortunately.

This is something you could work on.