The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: LPeters on December 31, 2015, 07:38:45 PM
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This thread'll probably be more shame than comedy, just as a warning.
So I've been a bit bored this past week and I've been indulging my slightly awful fascination with inheritance drama. You know— Aunt Spendthrift skipped town with Great Uncle Mustacian's $2M estate, ran through it in a month and then asked her sister for a $50k loan. Four siblings inherit a house from their mother and one moves in her boyfriend and 7 cats and refuses to vacate, essentially squatting. Young, hot stepmother inherits your father's life savings, leaving you and your siblings with nothing. Your mother and stepfather die in a car accident and you're wracked with grief but your brothers have rushed to their house to raid the furniture and hock your mother's jewelry, and your parents aren't even cold in the ground. Your cousin tricks your grandma with Alzheimer's into signing over her house.
There's just something about death and greed and money and long-buried resentment that bubbles to the surface when there's any substantial inheritance. It tears families apart. People lie and steal and cheat.
One thing I have noticed, which I wonder if any of you can back me up on, is that the more... Mustachian, for lack of a better word, the people who inherit are, the less drama there is. I don't precisely know why that is, but it's a consistent pattern I've noticed in these stories— maybe it's because Mustachian people are less likely to obnoxiously rely on and feel entitled to an inheritance because after all, most of us have projections and plans and countdowns until FIRE, and there's such a strong vein of individualism and self-sufficiency in Mustachianism— we know we can do this on our own, so we can concentrate on the things that matter more to us than money like quality of life and beloved family.
But I don't know, really. I'm not certain about any of my logic, because I just don't understand at the most basic level. It's probably why I find the subject so fascinating. I don't have much close family, and I just can't imagine fighting with any of them over money or things.
I've just exhausted reddit, and I thought that maybe you guys who have similar values to my own might have stories and explanations that I might understand, and since we're anonymous on the internet, I figured you probably wouldn't mind sharing what amounts to embarrassing family secrets.
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A dear friend of mine came from old southern money. His dad died and his mom remarried. He and his mom were at the hospital while his step-dad died. His step-sister was at the bank draining her father's accounts.
My mom just passed away. No inheritance drama because I'm the only child, dad already died, and I'm the executor and only heir.
But rather than sell off a bunch of her (nice but not to my taste) stuff to a bunch of strangers at an estate sale, I invited my aunt and cousins to come over and take what they wanted. It turned into a party with those who were present picking out things for uncles, cousins, nieces and nephews who couldn't be there. It was kind of like a wake but without the liquor and the fighting. About as pleasant as such an event can be.
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This was a long time ago - sometime in the 60s. When my maternal grandmother died, there were 4 adult sibs including my mother who were equal inheritors. While 3 of them were at the funeral, the fourth, my aunt, cleaned out the house of anything of value including a player piano. I'm sure there were many items of greater value, but this is the one that always came up as the biggest outrage.
This caused a rift of about 20 years. Then somehow there was a reconciliation and my mother sent me out to visit that aunt in Minnesota. There was the player piano in her summer house.
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One within my own family.
In about 2007 my family discovered that my great great grandparents owned a rather large plot of land in the 'old country'. All the land on either side is full developed valuable land. We found out because a less than legitimate firm shall we say converted the lands use to urban and tried to start building on it when a distant local relative noticed. This was then valued at tens of millions and made everyone rather happy and so paperwork sorting to formalise things to pay back taxes etc with a view of a sale. This was complicated by large numbers of heirs (catholic family) depending on which branch of the tree. But all sorted. Then. Financial Crash. Old Country did badly. Very badly. Land dropped in value massively although still with millions, small digits. But, a squatter appeared. One of the more local family tried to get him removed but he produced an old document which stated his family has the right to farm the land. No court case has yet been started. Documents legitimacy unknown, although either way apparently.
Why not? Well most of the family are poor/lower middle income. So any costs really cut into budgets. Some don't even want to pay their share of the tax on the land (which is like, really tiny). So it is all in a very slowly progressing limbo land. Though with no rush as prices are no where near '08 levels. How many had 'counted' on the larger sum I don't know. I stay out off all of it.
Further complicated by heirs starting to die off meaning their descendants and thus even more people are involved.
I find this all rather amusing as do my parents. They are the only 'well off' couple of the family in terms of their share would mean more spendypants holidays and maybe being able to set myself and sibling up well.
For me it doesn't really matter if it ever gets resolved. Sure I could FIRE faster but eh no biggie, looking at less than ten years total of working anyway.
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My cousin tells me that when my paternal grandmother died, there was a polite but determined dispute between my mother and my uncle as to who got the sitting room curtains (the red velvet winter ones), which was resolved when they discovered that each of them had a use in mind for just one of the curtains.
Other than that I am afraid that my family seems to have been boringly correct about inheritances on all known occasions.
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Nothing major in my family, but a couple quirks that I find interesting:
1. Dad's mom died when he was around 20 and his younger sister was 16. His dad very quickly remarried, and wicked stepmother kicked the younger sister out of the house just so she could have the father and home all for herself. Anyway, my dad and aunt wanted something sentimental of their mother's to remember her by, but stepmother wanted to keep everything. She seriously kept the interior of the house just the same, using my dad's mom's decorations, dishes, linens, and all such stuff. The running joke in my family growing up was that whenever we were permitted by the beast to visit grandpa in his home, we should try to steal some Hummels (which purportedly were dad's mom's favorites, or at least something that dad strongly associated with his mom). We never did take anything and the beast never offered. Grandpa died. Dad didn't even care about the money or the lucrative business that grandpa had built -- he just wanted some of his mom's personal effects, but the beast still kept everything for herself.
2. My mom has a sister and brother. The brother had a major rift with his mom a very long time ago, and they essentially did not speak for like 20 years or so. Grandma even saw brother's daughter in the grocery store parking lot, and daughter's friend was like, "Isn't that your grandma?" And the daughter was like, "No, my grandma is dead!" Anyway, the brother was disinherited from my grandma's will. She later died with a rather small estate, but meaningful enough to the family, and it was to be split 50/50 between my mom and her sister. Mom's brother decides to sue to contest the will, making ridiculously petty claims on the estate, such as some tiny amount he had been awarded when he was in an accident as a young child, his labor hours for mowing their lawn and shoveling the snow in the driveway when he was a kid, etc.
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There's just something about death and greed and money and long-buried resentment that bubbles to the surface when there's any substantial inheritance. It tears families apart. People lie and steal and cheat.
One thing I have noticed, which I wonder if any of you can back me up on, is that the more... Mustachian, for lack of a better word, the people who inherit are, the less drama there is. I don't precisely know why that is, but it's a consistent pattern I've noticed in these stories— maybe it's because Mustachian people are less likely to obnoxiously rely on and feel entitled to an inheritance because after all, most of us have projections and plans and countdowns until FIRE, and there's such a strong vein of individualism and self-sufficiency in Mustachianism— we know we can do this on our own, so we can concentrate on the things that matter more to us than money like quality of life and beloved family.
But I don't know, really. I'm not certain about any of my logic, because I just don't understand at the most basic level. It's probably why I find the subject so fascinating. I don't have much close family, and I just can't imagine fighting with any of them over money or things.
Well you hinted at it. Mustachians are people who can take care of themselves and are more independent financially. We've controlled our spending habits to live within our means and we're not so desperate for handouts from inheritances. We're not scrambling for an inheritance to feed some "addiction" tied to spending.
I do think there's some underlying "addiction" or brain psychology involved in spending, the lizard brain supposedly. I don't have literature but I feel it's out there somewhere. I know that making money stimulates the same center of the brain as cocaine which is a reason why Wall St. bankers exhibit drug use and other behaviors associated w/addicts. I imagine spending behaviors are tied into neuroscience too.
I think your observation holds some ground. My parents aren't Mustachian but aren't anti-Mustachian. They paid off house, my college, live w/in their means, have pensions. They just don't have big retirement savings like most here and only had me. If they knew/followed this board, they'd be doing heck of a lot better (millions better).
My aunt by blood and her husband OTOH is more anti-Mustachian and are still working (late 60s), spending on outward appearance of wealth (luxury cars, nice phones, 30 year mortgages, use bank's money, not your own, very American-like for someone very Asian), lying on taxes (declaring my grandfather in Asia is an employee when actually not) so they were kneeling and begging (as retold by aunt) my grandfather to change the will to give them the highly valued property to them immediately instead of letting the grandmother (not blood related) who's been taking care of grandpa to stay until she died before transferring. And grandfather already gave a lot of $$ already to the aunt. Some bickering and posturing to get the property like more frequent visits, and asking around for $$ from relatives; they can't "retire" w/their lifestyle. The eldest brother (my uncle) is pretty timid but is getting the house, which aunt isn't happy about. My parents aren't inheriting a single penny, they just don't want to see my grandfather exploited by my aunt and her husband and for the grandfather to make his own choice. Out of the 3, my parents are doing the best financially and comfortably. Strangely, they have never gotten any help from grandparents and don't ask for it either. My dad was told if wants $$ from grandfather, to ask the sister for it (since she already got a lot). They just mind their own business, I think their habits, only child, and good jobs allowed them to do that.
To my aunt and her husband's credit though, they gave $50K for a house downpayment to their daughter who makes at least 4X as much as me and had already worked 10 years and no kids...
They also lent $100K to older brother and he paid back w/in a couple months. They also spent a lot on their son including his wedding and when son mentioned/"boasted" of 170K bonus he got to my aunt/uncle, they asked if he could lend $50K to my aunt/uncle for a downpayment on a smaller, cheaper house. The son then said "uhh it's locked up in some CD account" and can't access it. Later they said they were moving away but gave no specifics (I'm guessing running away from said aunt/uncle)
It definitely had to do w/looking rich. The uncle has rich friends so felt had to keep up. Whenever there were choices between family gatherings, he always picked the rich people. The uncle's own brother even said it, "Oh he's not coming, he's eating w/rich people". Mind you everyone's Chinese, people you'd expect to be fiscally very conservative and stingy.
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A mother dies and her three children will inherit equally.
One, the eldest by 10 years, has never been happy with her younger sisters because they ruined her single child upbringing (or something like that; who knows?).
When the body is cremated, the eldest takes the ashes and uses a scale to determine exactly how much each sister gets. After taking her "portion" of the ashes, she gives back to her younger sisters the remainder of the ashes in a plastic bag.
Eldest sister is in her 80s and continues to be angry to this day, despite repeated attempts at communication.
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My family was rural, poor, Catholic, and large. At some point my grandfather and his brothers built a business. While my mom was a child they were very poor, but they had enough money to send the youngest to trade school.
Eventually the business did well, and I'd say my grandparents were worth about a million, a lot of money in my home town. One of my brothers was working the business also, so he got his inheritance (part of the business) while alive. The trust/ will set up was to divide the money left in the business (when it was sold) between the boys. The house (worth a lot less), would be sold and proceeds would go to the girls.
Well, my grandmother died in her early 60's, and my grandfather remarried within a year. This caused a rift. He traveled quite a bit with grandma, but that upset some aunts/ uncles with the new wife because he's spending their inheritance. My grandpa worked very hard. His new wife? Raised 11 children essentially on her own and also worked very hard. Wonderful woman (and my grandpa would not have done well single).
Anyway, my grandfather died in his 80's (17 years ago), and at that point, he'd been married to his second wife for more than 15 years. After the funeral, my uncle called my mom (the executor) and wanted to know WHEN HE WAS GETTING HIS MONEY BECAUSE HE'S WAITED HIS WHOLE LIFE FOR HIS MONEY (probably $250k). My grandpa was not even buried yet.
Here's the thing - the trust was set up so that his second wife could live off the interest of the trust - AND THE PRINCIPAL IF NECESSARY, until she dies. She didn't really need much - she has a pension from working at the library while raising her family, plus social security. When they married, she kept her house and eventually moved back into it.
Yeah, well, that was 17 years ago. She's 97. Still living. AND, she's outlived both my mother and an aunt. That uncle? Not doing too great, and I think she might outlive him too.
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My grandmother died fairly young and unexpectedly. It was assumed she would live to be significantly older and that my mother would help care for her as she aged. As a result, my grandmother did not split the inheritance evenly, but left more money with my mother to pay for the assumed expenses. When the will was revealed my mom's siblings were furious that they were not receiving as much money. My mom offered to do an even split so everyone got the same amount but they would have none of it. It's been 22 years now and my aunts and uncles still refuse to speak to my family.
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Yeah, well, that was 17 years ago. She's 97. Still living. AND, she's outlived both my mother and an aunt. That uncle? Not doing too great, and I think she might outlive him too.
Stories like that are fantastic.
In 1965, an elderly French woman of 90 years with no heirs and a smoking habit, entered a contract with her cunning 47 year old attorney. She sells him her apartment in exchange for life annuity payments. The elderly lady continues to live, eventually outliving him and continuing to receive payments from the deceased attorney's wife, as per the contract. She dies in 1997 at the age of 122 years, the longest human lifespan ever recorded. The attorney and his wife ended up paying more than twice the apartment's value to her over 3 decades.
She was a kickass lady too. She only stopped riding her bicycle after hitting 3 digits, and lived on her own until 110.
People really shouldn't bank on others dying.
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Anyway, my grandfather died in his 80's (17 years ago), and at that point, he'd been married to his second wife for more than 15 years. After the funeral, my uncle called my mom (the executor) and wanted to know WHEN HE WAS GETTING HIS MONEY BECAUSE HE'S WAITED HIS WHOLE LIFE FOR HIS MONEY (probably $250k). My grandpa was not even buried yet.
It never ceases to amaze me what people think they are entitled to. My husband's aunt was married to her third husband for over a decade. He died, and his son from a previous marriage was livid that he didn't get his father's pension and inheritance. Um, that goes to his wife. I do think if she dies, it would be nice for her to leave some of that money to her former stepson, but he has cut ties so that is unlikely to happen. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
In the case of my father-in-law who is remarried, they have set up some sort of trust so that, if he dies, his wife (my step mother-in-law) can't disinherit my husband or his brother. I'm not sure it's iron clad, and I'm not going to stress over it either way. It would suck if she got vindictive if he died and left all of his money to her children instead of his, but there's not much I can do about it.
My mother-in-law just lost her husband in his early 60s, and he never had any children of his own. He has a pretty significant stash that is now my MIL's. I wonder if he has a provision for his brother, who is struggling financially. That would be nice, because I don't think we really "deserve" his money if my MIL were to pass earlier than expected. Of course, it would be moot if she lives to her 90s, since his brother would likely be gone as well.
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Happened to a former co-worker. She married at around age 28 to a guy who was about 40. Her 1st marriage, his 2nd. He had an ex-wife and 2 kids.
About a year into their marriage she gives birth to a baby girl, but not long after that, her husband dies of a heart attack.
Turns out he had not changed his beneficiary information, so yes, the ex-wife and kids got everything. They took everything too, including his personal property from the house.
Co-worker only received Social Security widow and survivor benefits and she had to go back home and live with her parents.
Moral: please update your paperwork!
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Yeah, well, that was 17 years ago. She's 97. Still living. AND, she's outlived both my mother and an aunt. That uncle? Not doing too great, and I think she might outlive him too.
Stories like that are fantastic.
In 1965, an elderly French woman of 90 years with no heirs and a smoking habit, entered a contract with her cunning 47 year old attorney. She sells him her apartment in exchange for life annuity payments. The elderly lady continues to live, eventually outliving him and continuing to receive payments from the deceased attorney's wife, as per the contract. She dies in 1997 at the age of 122 years, the longest human lifespan ever recorded. The attorney and his wife ended up paying more than twice the apartment's value to her over 3 decades.
She was a kickass lady too. She only stopped riding her bicycle after hitting 3 digits, and lived on her own until 110.
People really shouldn't bank on others dying.
These are awesome.
We spent part of the holidays with my husband's grandparents, who are in their early 90s, live comfortably in their home, and still drive. The grandfather is in some ways sharper than any of our parents. I can see one or both grandparents making it to 100 or beyond.
Once they have passed on, I fully expect drama from one my husband's aunts, who has broken all ties with the extended family. I doubt she has been entirely cut out of the will, but if she has I'm sure she'll raise holy hell, even though she was the instigator of the rift and for no good reason. People are crazy and selfish.
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I've been watching a fictional treatment of inheritance drama, a Danish tv series called The Legacy. it's as juicy as can be, with a mother figure dying suddenly with important assets, multiple,children including her illigitimate daughter, varying passionate ideas about outcome of the estate, and lots of angst.
Highly recommended.
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My cousin tells me that when my paternal grandmother died, there was a polite but determined dispute between my mother and my uncle as to who got the sitting room curtains (the red velvet winter ones), which was resolved when they discovered that each of them had a use in mind for just one of the curtains.
Other than that I am afraid that my family seems to have been boringly correct about inheritances on all known occasions.
Please, you simply cannot drop ,that story onto this site without further detail.
What does one do with one red velvet drape? Xmas tree skirt? Pillows for the bordello room?
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A mother dies and her three children will inherit equally.
One, the eldest by 10 years, has never been happy with her younger sisters because they ruined her single child upbringing (or something like that; who knows?).
When the body is cremated, the eldest takes the ashes and uses a scale to determine exactly how much each sister gets. After taking her "portion" of the ashes, she gives back to her younger sisters the remainder of the ashes in a plastic bag.
Eldest sister is in her 80s and continues to be angry to this day, despite repeated attempts at communication.
So great! Love this thread.
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I've been watching a fictional treatment of inheritance drama, a Danish tv series called The Legacy. it's as juicy as can be, with a mother figure dying suddenly with important assets, multiple,children including her illigitimate daughter, varying passionate ideas about outcome of the estate, and lots of angst.
Highly recommended.
I wish we got more European TV here in the USA. With subtitles of course.
I agree with an earlier poster above that said self-sufficiency was a strong instinct in most of us here at MMM. Its something my wife and I are proud of about ourselves. We've done okay but never asked for money from either pairs of our parents. Nobody able to Lord over us about anything. ;)
The inheritence stories I know about: two separate unmarried males. Neither know each other. Different parts of the state.
Both eventually inherit the properties and money of everyone in their families. One finally gave up working. Lives in an old but modest house. From the sound of it - the house is stuffed to the gills with antique furniture. He eats out just about every meal. He can't seem to let anything go.
The other one asked to use some of my tools to remake a chimney cap. Said it was for his grandparents' house (this fellow is nearly retirement age himself). They aren't living anymore but he keeps the power on ot heat/cool the house b/c it contains the furniture/antiques of the extended family which all went to him. Can't seem to let anything go either.
When I sociably ask him when he's retiring he tells me hes worried he won't have enough. Despite living at home, never married, no kids, and a pension plus Social Security. Who knows? (Doesn't drink, doesn't do drugs, etc.)
I hope someday to be able to prowl through these houses and buy a few antiques. It might all be very ordinary and unremarkable or both houses could be treasure troves. Who knows?
A little closer to home. My grandfather achieved ALOT through very MMM means with an 8th grade education. When he died everything went to my grandmother of course and was mis-managed by one of my uncles who then tried to hide what he spent the money on. She was taken car of to her last day but he was skimming alot of money off for himself. The going belief is he bouht some toys (vehicles) and paid some of his debts. Married, left her child with her parents to raise. ?!?!?!
What was left of my grandparents' money was then divided among the siblings. Once the other siblings figured out what happened it caused a break in the family that has never healed. Lots of 50 year old emotional baggage there that I only know part of. Recently that uncle died and everything left went to another uncle. Still the break remains. The whole family functioned better apart than they did together.
Meanwhile my parents have done well for themselves so the money would just be icing on the proverbial cake. Still a desire for fairness persisted. The break in the family was good for my mother emotionally. She and I have had our differences but never over money. We are just different kinds of personalities and my parents would have tried to make alot of my decisions for me if I let them. Nothing unheard of here at MMM. ;) I'm a grown man. I think my wife and I can handle our affairs ourselves just fine. ;)
Took a while to figure out all the players and their role in the story of my grandparents' affairs. Family has never been great communicators. Anyhow as my grandfather and then grandmother sickened and died - a married couple from 30 years in my grandparents' past appeared and began to cozy up to the family. It became clear that they there to snap up any financial or property crumbs that might fall in their direction.
Around here there are is a portion of the population who are short sighted offspring who inherit their elders' properties. A family death and a will is means to fast money. They then quickly auction it off for the quickest cash sale. That cash then goes towards ATVs, boats, RVs, big pickups, and other steeply depreciating big boy toys. In a few short years it is spent and these "children" have little to show for their parents' lifetime of savings and work.
So when my grandparents died and the family did not suddenly want to fire sale any assets that couple quickly departed from the social circle. I should point out that they ran one of those sub-prime lending companies. Not quite Payday Loans but not a real bank either. They did well over the years and were quite good at petting a person's ego to cozy up and get well positioned to hear family secrets.
Last story: through some sort of unfortunate event or sickness a man a county over from here lost his wife and was awarded ~$250K or so by lawsuit or insurance. Now a few years later he has car hopped until most of the money is gone. He is old enough to retire and might need it to help him have a comfortable old age but the area car dealers absorbed alot of it as profits as he changed vehicles many times. Expensive pickup truck, car for daughter, then repeat multiple times. Shopping therapy I guess.
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Posting to follow! So much juicy drama.
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Happened to a former co-worker. She married at around age 28 to a guy who was about 40. Her 1st marriage, his 2nd. He had an ex-wife and 2 kids.
About a year into their marriage she gives birth to a baby girl, but not long after that, her husband dies of a heart attack.
Turns out he had not changed his beneficiary information, so yes, the ex-wife and kids got everything. They took everything too, including his personal property from the house.
Co-worker only received Social Security widow and survivor benefits and she had to go back home and live with her parents.
Moral: please update your paperwork!
I used to work in a retiree call center and can't tell you how many times I saw this. Paperwork was filled out years (sometimes decades ago), retiree dies and is on second/or third wife but paperwork still leaves everything to wife number one. Those were horrible, horrible calls.
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Before my dad died, my sisters were talking about taking my mom (and theirs too) to court to get their fair share. I am not sure why they thought they deserved any part of my dad's estate more than my mom. I had to make sure he had an airtight will signed while he was on his freakin' deathbed to keep them from trying to keep them from trying to sue. They didn't even bother to come to his funeral, but felt they deserved money. It sickens me, and I cut out of my life after that. Ironically, my mom "forgave" them a few years later and now I am the bad guy for cutting them off. Maybe I should have allowed them to sue...
Anyway, my mom got remarried a few years back and they were up in arms about that because they said he was out to get her money (btw, my mom has no money. She owns a paid for house and some land, but that's it.) My favorite was my sister telling her she was going to burn in hell if she married him. Anyway, they have now figured out that he has a little money of his own so now they are buddy-buddy with him. I just tell her I don't want to hear about it.
My mom has told me she made me the executor of her will a few years back, but I emphatically told her to name someone else and to not leave me anything. I have a few family heirlooms already so I am good. I have no desire to be involved with any of it.
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A friend of mine's sister sued her stepmother after their dad died. She was convinced that he was a secretly a millionaire and that they stepmother had been stealing his money and hiding it in off-shore accounts and that she had made him change his will, etc. She even had my friend and her family followed by a private detective because she was convinced that they were helping the stepmother. She didn't think his wife deserved anything even though they had been married for over 20 years at this point. In reality, he left enough to for his widows to live out her last years in comfort, but not enormous wealth by any means. The stepmother was pretty kind in general and had offered for both my friend and her sister to come and get all the family heirlooms so that they would stay in the family.
The worst thing about the whole thing is that the sister married into a wealthy family, lives in a huge house, and doesn't need a dime. On the advice of her attorney, the stepmother offered a small amount of money (less than 10K) to make the whole thing go away and keep her from dragging her husband's name through the mud in the small town where they lived. The whole thing was just sad.
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Not me, but DH's family story is juicily dysfunctional...........
DH's grandfather (GF) was financially very successful when MIL was young - live-in maid, fabulous parties, etc. At some point pre-DH, GF leaves his wife, remarries. DH's grandmother's divorce settlement is somewhere in the 7 figures.
GF died 20 years ago, and MIL is STILL pissed that the second wife inherited ANY of his estate (I think she got around $5 million). MIL inherited enough to buy a historic home in a fancy-pants neighborhood in CA and renovate it. We're talking gutting much of the interior and completely rehabbing the exterior/yard/new HVAC, the works.
But wait, there's more........ DH's DH's aunt, upon receiving her inheritance, promptly quits her job, moves to Europe, and becomes a screenwriter. Of course, the money runs out and the screenplay doesn't go anywhere, so she returns to CA and her house and gets another job.
DH's grandmother develops dementia. Meanwhile, DH's aunt, who has issues with reality and alcohol, loses her job. Aunt then visits grandmother, and has grandmother sign some blank checks. After it's discovered that Aunt has helped herself to something in the neighborhood of $25K, MIL confronts Aunt. Aunt's answer? 'I was just getting an advance on my inheritance.' Even before Grandmother's death, there are regular requests for more 'advances' from Aunt, for things like property taxes and dental work. Grandmother died about a decade ago, and I am waiting quietly for Aunt's money to run out, and MIL to begin subsidizing her, though I don't think MIL would ever tell me about it.
Meanwhile, MIL, who is now in her 70s and proudly tells us she and FIL haven't spent a penny of the inheritance, but maybe some of the payout of investment gains, continues to work at her 6-figure/year, high-stress job. She also regularly offers us money for projects around our house or things we 'need' - think new cars or a larger home, but positively shouts us down if we say we'd like to spend some of the gifts to invest in our retirement. DH was okay with saving only the minimum for his retirement until I pointed out to him that he was, in effect, waiting for his parents to die so he could retire....... Now, we spend the a minimum of the financial gifts on something to show MIL, and invest the rest.
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Posting to follow! So much juicy drama.
Just press the "Notify" button at the bottom of the page... :)
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Happened to a former co-worker. She married at around age 28 to a guy who was about 40. Her 1st marriage, his 2nd. He had an ex-wife and 2 kids.
About a year into their marriage she gives birth to a baby girl, but not long after that, her husband dies of a heart attack.
Turns out he had not changed his beneficiary information, so yes, the ex-wife and kids got everything. They took everything too, including his personal property from the house.
Co-worker only received Social Security widow and survivor benefits and she had to go back home and live with her parents.
Moral: please update your paperwork!
I used to work in a retiree call center and can't tell you how many times I saw this. Paperwork was filled out years (sometimes decades ago), retiree dies and is on second/or third wife but paperwork still leaves everything to wife number one. Those were horrible, horrible calls.
A few years ago I had to do the paperwork for a soldier who was killed in Iraq while I was back home. While I was sorting through his file I walked down the hall and saw that we had a female soldier in our unit with the same last name. I didn't think much of it until I got a call from the male soldier's unit saying I needed to come down to their office. It turns out he was married to the female in my unit. Nobody knew they were married. Not his unit, not his family, and not the Army at large. They were only married a couple months before he shipped out and they never turned in the paperwork. We knew she was married, but not to whom. Since they didn't file any paperwork, she was not informed of his death - only his mother was. She happened to walk down to his unit the same day and ask why she hadn't heard from him in a couple weeks (death notices are done within 24 hours, but apparently he wasn't keeping in touch very well either). The rear-detachment commander was stuck because without proof of marriage he legally couldn't say a word to her. By the end of the day she was finally informed her husband was killed, both units learned they were married, and his mother learned she had a daughter in law.
His life insurance still listed his mother as the beneficiary ($400k), but the death gratuity ($100k) and his personal effects still automatically went to the spouse. There was bad blood between the wife and his family for about a week, but by the time of the funeral they had smoothed everything out. We sent an escort with her just in case.
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One of my closest friends has an associate who she helps financially every now and then (a few hundred here and there, probably $10k over the last 5 years). This person's sister died a few years ago and allegedly left her an insurance policy/estate worth millions from which she swears my friend will receive a portion. Every now and then this inheritance comes up in conversation, but there is always some legal roadblock to it being dispersed. One time the lawyer screwed up the paperwork, then a series of family members sued for their share. It's been so long and stories so varied my friend has pretty much moved on from the whole thing, but it comes up every few months when her friend needs more money.
My paternal grandfather died about 8 years ago. I was in Iraq so I missed the funeral and all the family drama that went with it. According to my parents, the week after his death all the brothers and sisters (5 siblings plus spouses) were together and for an entire week the dinner conversation was who got what - and right in front of my grandmother. With his death and their age she was going to downsize into a retirement community apartment so lots of stuff was up for grabs, but the ordeal left my parents thoroughly shocked and jaded. With my grandmother still alive and well I imagine there was no money to disperse since she's still living on it. I don't know what happened to most of their property and heirlooms, but my father ended up with his father's WWII enlistment papers, medals, and a couple other related items and I think he was quite satisfied with that.
My mother died 4 years ago. Whatever insurance arrangements she had with my father were enough for him to finally pull the trigger on retirement. My sister and I received a small slice of it, but thankfully there wasn't anything else to discuss. With my mother gone, one of DW's grandmother's gone, both grandfathers gone, and her other grandmother over 100 and losing steam all of the kids in our generation are starting to ponder what happens next with their parents. I'm pretty sure our parents will be around for quite a long time (all in their early 60s), but it's tough to walk through their houses and not think about their estates and how all of that will play out. I try not to think about it, but sometimes it ends up being gallows humor to lighten the mood when the kids are together.
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I do have sympathy for sons and daughters in certain cases of remarriage. For instance, I was friends with a woman in her eighties who lived next to me in an apartment complex. She was pretty much a shut-in and a hoarder - well, not pretty much. She was. A lovely lady, but once her husband of 20+ years died, she started to hoard and not ever leave her apartment. I struck up a friendship with her and spent a fair amount of time with her.
She never had children, but her late husband had an adult daughter. The daughter lived in town and invited her stepmother to spend every single holiday with her and her family. She called her weekly or more to chat. I always sensed that my friend was paranoid about her stepdaughter. She rejected almost all of her invitations.
When she died, my friend left everything to her brother who lives across the country in California. He didn't even show up for over a week - leaving his sister's body at the morgue freezer, and then he just dumped almost everything in a dumpster without giving the stepdaughter access to the property. I imagine there were mementos and photos and other items from her father that she would have wanted. Plus he didn't do a funeral or a memorial. Nothing.
The stepdaughter ended up doing her own memorial a few months later graveside. I attended along with a few other caregivers. It was obvious that they were not well off, but they nonetheless took the time to print out a booklet with my friend's life story and provided some food and drink. It just made me sad that my friend didn't leave them anything at all, since that was also her husband's and their father's money and memorabilia. He was a well known pianist in the 50s and 60s, so I imagine there were lots of things in the apartment that they would have wanted. And IMO it would have been nice for my friend to have left them even a token amount, instead of giving it all to her eccentric and loner brother. Just my opinion. No one is entitled to money when someone dies, but that doesn't make all the decisions people make with their money fair or kind.
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My cousin tells me that when my paternal grandmother died, there was a polite but determined dispute between my mother and my uncle as to who got the sitting room curtains (the red velvet winter ones), which was resolved when they discovered that each of them had a use in mind for just one of the curtains.
I loved this story. Thanks for sharing, FP.
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Posting to follow! So much juicy drama.
Just press the "Notify" button at the bottom of the page... :)
Alas, I'm using the stripped-down WAP version of the forum to make it easier to read on my smartphone. The Notify button doesn't show up :)
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My grandfather died several years ago, and my grandmother lives with one of her children at an time (usually my aunt). Their house in the old country was sold for ~$350k US to a distant relative of ours. The proceeds were apparently split between my uncle and aunt without my father getting anything. My uncle was struggling financially after the market collapse, so my father didn't care. Sometimes he grumbles about it, but the inheritance is so small compared to my parents' savings that it's irrelevant. He gets annoyed on occasion about the uncle's spending habits, though.
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Posting to follow! So much juicy drama.
Just press the "Notify" button at the bottom of the page... :)
Alas, I'm using the stripped-down WAP version of the forum to make it easier to read on my smartphone. The Notify button doesn't show up :)
The Notify button doesn't really work as expected, so you're not missing anything. :) (you just get annoying emails and it doesn't show up in your Unread Replies)
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^Ah, good to know.
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Posting to follow as well.
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It's nice to read stories of families that are at least as dysfunctional as my mothers!
My mother is the youngest of 4 kids, the eldest is the only boy and was very much the favored child. Think fancy private schools and plenty of cash gifts and subsidised living as an adult.
My grandfather died in his 70s after a long illness, but it still came as a shock to my grandmother. Not so much to my uncle who arrived the next day with a large trailer unit and proceeded to clean out the house of everything of value. He was of the opinion that as he was the only boy that everything was his - completely disregarding the fact that his mother was still alive (and only in her 60s).
By the time my grandmother recovered from the shock it was a couple of weeks later and all her beautiful antiques were 400km away. I doubt she would have been able to stop him but she might have had a better chance than my mum (basically as the youngest she was completely ignored and no one else spoke up).
This worsened a rift in the family that meant that my uncle and his crazy wife didn't speak to my mum for about 20years.
When my grandmother died (25 yrs later) it was better, but only because there was nothing left of value aside from the house. Which my mothers sister wanted sold instantly so she almost sold it for $150k less than it was worth. Luckily it needed my mum's signature and she stopped the sale.
My aunt also gave away some of the furniture that had been promised to certain family members to random friends and they sold it before it could be retrieved.
My uncle died last year, and his crazy wife didn't bother to call my mum, instead she had her lawyer send a letter demanding that my mum send a rocking horse that belonged to my mum and her siblings as children to her, or she would sue for it, as it was apparently part of my uncles estate. We pointed out that it was gifted to us as children by our grandparents almost 30yrs ago and had been in our possession since, and very politely that she could go **** herself.
My sisters and I have sworn to never let our relationship deteriorate to that point.
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So gossip. Very follow.
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Following!
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Following!
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Not quite drama, but my mom's siblings had some "interesting" discussions cleaning out my grandfathers house. In the end my mom couldn't bear to throw out junk without ar least looking at it first and brought back the unsorted goods to her garage. They smelled of mold and she ignored our warnings and now everything in her garage is ruined. My siblings and I hope she sees the clutter light before its too late - during that time we talked about whay we wanted: its a combined four or five items ....
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When my maternal grandmother died, my (asshole to everyone) uncle came to the funeral and demanded the will to be read that day... if not AT the funeral. The rest of the family told him (nicely, cause they were still in shock that he would do that) to go fuck himself. He could care less about his parents or siblings and used to lie about his background to make himself look better, and only showed up to demand money he felt he was owed (and to pretend for a few minutes that he was mourning to a few people he cared about impressing/sucking up to).
One of my aunts called a locksmith and pretended to live at my grandmother's house, convinced him to break in and then change the locks for her, and as soon as he left, she loaded up her car with things. Fortunately nothing valuable, but my mom had to demand the locksmith come change the locks again and he did so for free since he didn't get proof from the aunt that she even lived there... so he'd have been complicit in committing breaking and entering and theft. (small town, so once he knew about aunt's lying, no one else would have let her repeat the action).
And same aunt also stole lots of mail, found a large dividend check that was send after grandmother's death, and forged her signature and cashed the check (over $40K). My mom found this fraud/theft pretty quickly and told aunt that she had better return said money ASAP as she'd be going to actual prison if she didn't (aunt had drug/alcohol/petty theft record, but not this scale). Aunt returned money. She really was so stupid it didn't occur to her that it would be easy to show that grandmother had been dead for weeks at the time she was supposed to have signed the check over to aunt. And that forgery and theft of that much money would be 5-10 years in state prison instead of a couple of days in county jail she'd done in the past.
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posting to follow
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Wow, this is some crazy stuff!
The next one is pretty tame -
We had one year in our family with a lot of deaths (grandparents, uncles, my dad, etc), all in a couple of months.
Anyway, my friend inherited about $100k from her European mother when she died. (Lots of death taxes, split 2 ways, that's what was left).
Shortly thereafter, friend's husband tells her he wants a divorce, after 40 years of marriage. At this point, they own a vacation condo and their house, outright. Husband is retired by now, friend never worked.
Anyway, husband signs over the house in exchange for the condo (which friend signs over to their children instead). Since husband was cheating anyway, he was just happy to be out.
But then...he was disappointed that she didn't offer him half of her mother's inheritance. Dude, you cheated on your wife of 40 years, and you want half of her inheritance? Screw you!
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These people who think they are entitled to property or money from their living relatives - like the uncle that backs up a trailer and cleans out his living mother's house - BLOWS my mind!
Or the people who think they are due a "pre-inheritance".
Keep the stories coming. This has been quite the education.
When my maternal grandparents (which had some money) died - I got nothing. No big deal. It was a messy situation. I prefer my independence over participating in the mess that it became.
When my paternal grandfather died (GM still alive) I got a few of his tools - among them his workbench that he built before I was born and some of his father's hand tools. They mean more to me than any tool at the big box hardware store.
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My sisters and I have sworn to never let our relationship deteriorate to that point.
After seeing a lot of similar drama when we were kids, my siblings and I did similarly agree to this. Unfortunately, one of us got married to someone like the spouse in your story :(
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These people who think they are entitled to property or money from their living relatives - like the uncle that backs up a trailer and cleans out his living mother's house - BLOWS my mind!
Or the people who think they are due a "pre-inheritance".
Keep the stories coming. This has been quite the education.
When my maternal grandparents (which had some money) died - I got nothing. No big deal. It was a messy situation. I prefer my independence over participating in the mess that it became.
When my paternal grandfather died (GM still alive) I got a few of his tools - among them his workbench that he built before I was born and some of his father's hand tools. They mean more to me than any tool at the big box hardware store.
I know, right? Crazy.
When my GF's second wife dies, I'm due to inherit 1/3 of my mother's 1/4 of the proceeds from the sale of the house. Or...about $8k.
My stepfather is quite mustachian, and never had his own children. So his will splits his estate 3 ways (my mother's 3 kids). Upon speaking with his lawyer, he decided to gift my sister part of her inheritance early, because it's land, and land right next to the land she lives on. (Because he gifted her that too, when she married.) He wanted to make VERY sure that I knew it, and that I was okay with it, and that it would come out of her share. I said "dude, it's your money and land, do what you want!"
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Mom dies and leaves rough a million to be divided three ways to me, and a half- brother and sister. I'm the executor. The half sister is about as sorry of an excuse for a human as it gets, drugs, alcohol addiction, felony manslaughter DUI, been leaching off mom and dad for decades, lives at home for free, allergic to engaging in productive employment, etc ...............and that's in the plus column.
Lucky enough, at the time of mom's passing, sis is in the middle of hip surgery and will be in rehab. for many weeks. Sis decides to boycott the funeral, for some psycho. reason that doesn't really matter to rational folks. Her next move is to inform the estate that she will continue to occupy the family homestead, and fully expects to have the home titled in her name. Well this is a bit problematic for a few reasons, including the fact that it violates the will, and she is on Medicaid, SSD, and countless other programs that have asset limitations. The will directs me to liquidate everything and divide it equally, with sis's portion going to a blind trust to prevent it from being seized by various agencies she is milking. She lawyers up, and I get a call from a junior attorney with Dewey, Cheatum and Howe. He attempts to be mildly intimidating, but I just can't cower all that well, particularly since he is FOS, and awaiting his first chin whisker. I ask Opie if he has done any due diligence on his client? He asks me to be more specific? I ask if it's pro bono, or does he suffer from delusions of being compensated for his work? He takes the fifth, but asks what I'm getting at. I then tell him that I can produce a large box of mail, bills, correspondence from her last council, etc........ that have piled, unopened, from the last six months or so. I explain that she only opens mail from the court system, since she greatly fears returning to jail. Other than that, it doesn't get opened or paid. The conversation ended pretty quickly after that, an the firm decided that it was a good client to drop.
Next I get a call from a county social worker, who decides he is another wannabee lawyer. This guy is going on about how I am in danger of violating her rights to housing, and heading down a dangerous path. He too is attempting to be a hard ass, like he is some kind of a rouge street cop. I then recommended that he concentrate his efforts on keeping his client out of jail, by making sure she was keeping up with the requirements of her parole. I also suggested he might want to take a look at the ongoing elder abuse investigation , as a result of her mother's coworkers and friends concern over the abuse taking place in the home that she shared with her mother. He drops the tough guy routine and listens to the reality that there is no way in hell that she will be heading back to her old "home", for many reasons. In the end I flipped the home, bumping the value up by $40K with three weeks and $7K invested. It sells quick and that drama is over.
All things considered, it was a long ugly process, but the house was sold and she got exactly what she was entitled to. She pulled a lot of other totally F-ed up stuff while mom was dying, and tried a whole bunch more until the estate settled. In the end she had a rude awaking, since her entitlement delusions had her convinced that she was going to be handed absolutely everything including a house and enough money to live happily ever after.
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This 3d is a gold mine. Keep them coming!
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Mom dies and leaves rough a million to be divided three ways to me, and a half- brother and sister. I'm the executor. The half sister is about as sorry of an excuse for a human as it gets, drugs, alcohol addiction, felony manslaughter DUI, been leaching off mom and dad for decades, lives at home for free, allergic to engaging in productive employment, etc ...............and that's in the plus column.
Lucky enough, at the time of mom's passing, sis is in the middle of hip surgery and will be in rehab. for many weeks. Sis decides to boycott the funeral, for some psycho. reason that doesn't really matter to rational folks. Her next move is to inform the estate that she will continue to occupy the family homestead, and fully expects to have the home titled in her name. Well this is a bit problematic for a few reasons, including the fact that it violates the will, and she is on Medicaid, SSD, and countless other programs that have asset limitations. The will directs me to liquidate everything and divide it equally, with sis's portion going to a blind trust to prevent it from being seized by various agencies she is milking. She lawyers up, and I get a call from a junior attorney with Dewey, Cheatum and Howe. He attempts to be mildly intimidating, but I just can't cower all that well, particularly since he is FOS, and awaiting his first chin whisker. I ask Opie if he has done any due diligence on his client? He asks me to be more specific? I ask if it's pro bono, or does he suffer from delusions of being compensated for his work? He takes the fifth, but asks what I'm getting at. I then tell him that I can produce a large box of mail, bills, correspondence from her last council, etc........ that have piled, unopened, from the last six months or so. I explain that she only opens mail from the court system, since she greatly fears returning to jail. Other than that, it doesn't get opened or paid. The conversation ended pretty quickly after that, an the firm decided that it was a good client to drop.
Next I get a call from a county social worker, who decides he is another wannabee lawyer. This guy is going on about how I am in danger of violating her rights to housing, and heading down a dangerous path. He too is attempting to be a hard ass, like he is some kind of a rouge street cop. I then recommended that he concentrate his efforts on keeping his client out of jail, by making sure she was keeping up with the requirements of her parole. I also suggested he might want to take a look at the ongoing elder abuse investigation , as a result of her mother's coworkers and friends concern over the abuse taking place in the home that she shared with her mother. He drops the tough guy routine and listens to the reality that there is no way in hell that she will be heading back to her old "home", for many reasons. In the end I flipped the home, bumping the value up by $40K with three weeks and $7K invested. It sells quick and that drama is over.
All things considered, it was a long ugly process, but the house was sold and she got exactly what she was entitled to. She pulled a lot of other totally F-ed up stuff while mom was dying, and tried a whole bunch more until the estate settled. In the end she had a rude awaking, since her entitlement delusions had her convinced that she was going to be handed absolutely everything including a house and enough money to live happily ever after.
Here's another one about a grown child refusing to leave the homestead: friend of mine has three siblings, two of whom are always down-on-their-luck for one excuse or another. One of these sibs and spouse decide to remain in the family home after mom dies, defying the will that dictates that all assets shall be split equally. Fast forward a few years, and sib leaves a cigarette lit, accidentally burning the house down. Property is gone, insurance kicks in, and the stipulations of the will are finally enforced. Karma can be a mo-fo.
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Approximately 13 years ago, my husband's paternal grandfather dies. My future husband moves into his home and takes on the daunting process of clearing out all his belongings. Grandfather left his home and property to his two kids, my husband's dad and aunt. My husband's dad eventually decides he and his wife need to move into the house as they have both lost their jobs on the opposite coast and feel like their job prospects may be better here. Future husband moves out, they move in.
Apparently the Grandfather actually wanted the property to go to the 4 grandsons but the will was never updated. So, Father-in-law buys out his sister and her two sons, and the property now belongs to him and his two sons. Father-in-law then decides that it will be most lucrative to divide the property into 4 separate parcels and sell/build an investment property on the other 3 parcels, while he and his wife live in the home. In order to do this he needed money and my now husband, his brother, and my sign-off. Unfortunately, we were young and stupid and believed him when he told us we were just signing to get the lot lines redrawn. We were actually signing onto a loan to the tune of $149k to pay for all the fees associated with dividing up the lot. We found out about the loan while trying to refinance our home. We are essentially cosigners on this loan. What's even worse is that we have never seen the receipts for the actual cost of redrawing the lot lines and we now also know that they brought personal debt into this loan to the tune of 30k-50k. We have never been able to get our hands on that documentation either.
Just after the lot was subdivided the stock market crashed and the ability to sell those lots has been pretty much nonexistent. Husband's father and wife ONLY PAY THE INTEREST on this loan and have been for the past 10 years.
Some solutions my husband and I have offered are to 1) sell the lots and put the proceeds toward the loan, 2) we pay off the loan and they sign over all lots but the house to us, 3) have us all start paying down the loan based on our percentage of ownership, etc. There is no solution they're okay with. I should also mention that they carried over about 250k to the house they live in, which was paid off when they inherited it. Father-in-law is in his seventies, still working, and making zero progress on this loan. In the meantime they have bought a share in a condo in Hawaii and travel there twice a year.
I am so frustrated with this situation as it feels like there is no solution. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them.
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My Dad died very suddenly 30 years ago. My older sister and her husband lived nearby and drove Mom around to the mortuary and cemetery to make the arrangements while I stayed home to field the phone. (I was 20 and in college.)
When they returned home, sister and BIL caught me alone and asked, "Does Mom have any money?"
I knew my parents frugal ways as well as I knew their spendthrift ways so I answered evasively, "I don't know. Why?"
"Well, you know, Mom's so upset that we've paid for everything today but we don't know if Mom has any money to pay us back."
"I don't know. You'll have to ask her."
Once they left, I told Mom about the exchange. She silently got up and brought back her checkbook, where she--as always--had meticulously recorded every expense that she had paid that day.
I have no idea what they thought they might get or why.
They moved out of state several years later and didn't bother to visit Mom for 16 years. When she finally did visit, my sister took the opportunity to ask my Mom who was going to get the house. Mom told her that she was leaving it to me since I was the only one who had been there for her. Sister stormed out of the house and didn't return, not even for Mom's funeral last year.
Mom left her and my brother $25K each. She told me many times, "They don't deserve anything, but if I don't give them something they'll never leave you alone."
Right after the cashier's check cleared, BIL posted a picture of his shiny new pickup on his Facebook page.
She knew them very well indeed.
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Mom left her and my brother $25K each. She told me many times, "They don't deserve anything, but if I don't give them something they'll never leave you alone."
I'm sorry for your loss, your mother sounds like an amazing person. She also sounds wise, had she cut your sister out, it's possible she could have contested the will and caused mischief.
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My Dad died very suddenly 30 years ago. My older sister and her husband lived nearby and drove Mom around to the mortuary and cemetery to make the arrangements while I stayed home to field the phone. (I was 20 and in college.)
When they returned home, sister and BIL caught me alone and asked, "Does Mom have any money?"
I knew my parents frugal ways as well as I knew their spendthrift ways so I answered evasively, "I don't know. Why?"
"Well, you know, Mom's so upset that we've paid for everything today but we don't know if Mom has any money to pay us back."
"I don't know. You'll have to ask her."
Once they left, I told Mom about the exchange. She silently got up and brought back her checkbook, where she--as always--had meticulously recorded every expense that she had paid that day.
I have no idea what they thought they might get or why.
They moved out of state several years later and didn't bother to visit Mom for 16 years. When she finally did visit, my sister took the opportunity to ask my Mom who was going to get the house. Mom told her that she was leaving it to me since I was the only one who had been there for her. Sister stormed out of the house and didn't return, not even for Mom's funeral last year.
Mom left her and my brother $25K each. She told me many times, "They don't deserve anything, but if I don't give them something they'll never leave you alone."
Right after the cashier's check cleared, BIL posted a picture of his shiny new pickup on his Facebook page.
She knew them very well indeed.
In this thread of horribly sad stories, I'm glad that, at least, your mom was smart.
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The only real problem with my father's estate from 10 years ago we discovered about a year and a half ago New York State had some $246 of his in unclaimed funds. They have given my brother in Florida who handled the paperwork such a run around in submitting and resubmitting documents that he has given up. With three of us, it's only $82 each and we never had any conflicts between the three of us. Actually I wanted the treadmill he had but his caregiver asked for it (and her husband wanted Dad's M1 rifle from WWII) so I figured she deserved it. So if that is the worst, we've been pretty lucky.
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This makes me so grateful for my family...
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It hasn't yet, but the future is going to be very interesting indeed. MIL and FIL are still married, but FIL lives with his girlfriend. They have some joint assets as well as individual retirement investments. They are fairly old at 76 and 79. Whoever outlives the other gets almost everything. MIL will definitely leave everything to the kids (my wife and BIL), but FIL is a wildcard who could leave it to his girlfriend even if she doesn't need it. On top of this, BIL is a score keeper who has always considered my wife to be the favored child. This extended to the point of comparing the tuitions at their private high schools and their universities. I assume he doesn't do that anymore because he has lived in their rental house, rent free, for the last 15 years. He asked MIL and she said no, so he asked FIL who said yes. This is a guy who posted to FB that college was a waster of time (MIL is not on FB) and that he wanted to be a wizard and ninja when he grew up and now teaches magic and karate. He then slammed government workers, which includes my wife and both his parents, and me, sort of (teach at a public college).
I really have no idea how all this will play out, but it will be very interesting.
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lets call her Grace.
because its a nice name.
and she was my grandmother.
Tough old bird - born and raised in toxteth, Liverpool. not a place know for soft people. she married my grandfather and moved out of Toxteth (not a bad move) and raised 3 girls. hard working. good provider but a total nut job when it came to family. she had fallen out with everyone.
anyway - grandad gets sick and the call is made to move to the country for his health. he dies a few years later. 3 grown kids at that stage.
my mother is the youngest and falls out with Grace because my mother married someone who called grace out for being a manipulate bitch. Grace had some nice life insurance taken out on her husband. she's in good shape and lets everyone know.
she ends up meeting someone else and marrying them. took nice life insurance out on them and let everyone know. Hubby 2 dies.
She them starts using the fact that she has all the money to whip the 3 girls and their families into line. do this for grace or I'll cut you out of the will. Do that for grace or you'll be cut out of the will.
I went and stayed with her and she started in on my old man so badly (the one who called her out) that i told her to go fuck herself. nobody talked to me about my father like that, especially about 20 year old make up grievances.
I never talked to her again.
2 out of the 3 girls and their families pandered to her. did everything for her , regardless of what she said about them.
she ends up dying and true to her word she used the inheritance to benefit those that had done as she said and run their lives according to what she wanted.
Problem for them was that Grace only left thousands. not 10's or 100's of thousands - just thousands.
I got nothing. my parents got nothing.
It was worth it.
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Mom left her and my brother $25K each. She told me many times, "They don't deserve anything, but if I don't give them something they'll never leave you alone."
I'm sorry for your loss, your mother sounds like an amazing person. She also sounds wise, had she cut your sister out, it's possible she could have contested the will and caused mischief.
Thank you, MgoSam. Mom lived to be 91 and she was indeed a member of the Greatest Generation. She and my Dad worked hard for all they had.
I'm actually grateful that my sister's behavior was so blatant since that motivated Mom to set up a living trust and pour-over will to ensure that her wishes were fulfilled. It made settling her estate much easier.
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My Dad died very suddenly 30 years ago. My older sister and her husband lived nearby and drove Mom around to the mortuary and cemetery to make the arrangements while I stayed home to field the phone. (I was 20 and in college.)
When they returned home, sister and BIL caught me alone and asked, "Does Mom have any money?"
I knew my parents frugal ways as well as I knew their spendthrift ways so I answered evasively, "I don't know. Why?"
"Well, you know, Mom's so upset that we've paid for everything today but we don't know if Mom has any money to pay us back."
"I don't know. You'll have to ask her."
Once they left, I told Mom about the exchange. She silently got up and brought back her checkbook, where she--as always--had meticulously recorded every expense that she had paid that day.
I have no idea what they thought they might get or why.
They moved out of state several years later and didn't bother to visit Mom for 16 years. When she finally did visit, my sister took the opportunity to ask my Mom who was going to get the house. Mom told her that she was leaving it to me since I was the only one who had been there for her. Sister stormed out of the house and didn't return, not even for Mom's funeral last year.
Mom left her and my brother $25K each. She told me many times, "They don't deserve anything, but if I don't give them something they'll never leave you alone."
Right after the cashier's check cleared, BIL posted a picture of his shiny new pickup on his Facebook page.
She knew them very well indeed.
In this thread of horribly sad stories, I'm glad that, at least, your mom was smart.
She was. I'm so grateful that she made the decisions--and took the legal actions--that she did.
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I got nothing. my parents got nothing.
It was worth it.
Only story in this thread to put a smile on my face. Big fist pump that you and your parents weren't for sale, even when you thought Grace had bags of money. (Problem with being for sale is that even if the price is high, part of you will always feel cheap.)
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My maternal grandfather died a few years ago. The money side of things was relatively drama free, although I don't think he had updated his will recently. He left a big chunk to his youngest daughter to get her going... except she was married to a successful guy and nearly finished becoming an RN at the time. The little bit of drama came from the crazy aunt who was upset that he had just left his kids money instead of setting up an education trust for the grandkids, which is something he had talked about doing. Didn't get around to setting it up though, which is another reason I don't think he had looked at his will.
I got what I wanted... one of his big toolboxes. I keep his picture inside the lid.
The real drama came a few weeks after the funeral, when my mother found out crazy aunt was mad at her... My mom is used to planning things and taking charge, which is what she ended up doing with the funeral. Apparently at some point he had told crazy aunt she could plan the funeral, so she went off speaking terms with my mom for months for usurping her directorial authority.
On a lighter note... and just because I like telling this story... my mom and her sisters all met at and stayed at grandpa's house the week prior to the funeral. My family is full of snark. Full. The day after they all arrived, there was a knock at the door. My mother opened to a guy in a UPS uniform, who very awkwardly asked if someone in the home had just passed away. My mother, in her best form, replied, "Yes. Are you here for the body?" It took a minute for the aunts to stop laughing uncontrollably... Turns out that the UPS guy was the bishop for my grandpa's LDS ward. My mom still feels kind of bad about it. :)
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On a lighter note... and just because I like telling this story... my mom and her sisters all met at and stayed at grandpa's house the week prior to the funeral. My family is full of snark. Full. The day after they all arrived, there was a knock at the door. My mother opened to a guy in a UPS uniform, who very awkwardly asked if someone in the home had just passed away. My mother, in her best form, replied, "Yes. Are you here for the body?" It took a minute for the aunts to stop laughing uncontrollably... Turns out that the UPS guy was the bishop for my grandpa's LDS ward. My mom still feels kind of bad about it. :)
Oh man, that's awfully funny!
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There is probably a best selling book buried in this thread already
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Had a very quirky uncle with four children and would routinely rewrite his will to remove a child based on some real or perceived slight. Happened over and over.
He passed away very unexpectedly and when they read his most recent will, he had written out his oldest child, who has been wheelchair bound for over 30 years and is an absolute sweetheart. She was flabbergasted and had no idea why.
The happy ending is the other three children said "F That" and agreed to split his assets 4-ways.
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I just learned about this--apparently when my father-in-law was literally hours away from death my two youngest sisters-in-law were going around his house putting different-colored sticky notes on the furniture they wanted, which was most of it. Sigh.
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The happy ending is the other three children said "F That" and agreed to split his assets 4-ways.
That's awesome! I'm glad that the siblings were good about this.
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Great thread, even if some of the stories are terrifying. Good reminder to tell parents to update their will however they think best, but with the ultimate goal of not letting stupid money matters be a cause of family pitted against one another. We're in our 30's and don't have any kids who would fight over our estate if we happened to perish at the same time, but we need to make a will nonetheless, since we wouldn't want to leave our families the task of untangling and dividing our earthly belongings.
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Last year at this time my family was going through this when my grandfather passed away. He had two children, my dad and my uncle. My dad had everything set up in a trust and had power of attorney; everything was prepared. Or so we thought (saw that coming, eh?).
The bulk of the estate was his lakefront property where he lived for the past 50+ years. Originally, he moved in to take care of his mother after his father passed away, and when she died the house went to my grandfather with his sister's blessing (the only other sibling). This was in 1976.
Fast forward to last year, the sale of the house is pending when the title shows up with his sister's name on it. Ugh! My grandfather told my dad several times that it was taken care of and that the property was transferred into the trust, but clearly, that never happened. Apparently what happened was way back when, the judge thought it was a mistake that the property only went into my grandfather's name and he added his sister to it. No one knew this.
Grandpa's sister passed away a few years ago, so there was no way for her to sign off on it properly. Instead, her three daughters would have to. Two of the three said absolutely, no problem, that's the right thing to do. The third sister could smell the money and refused to sign off. My dad was going pretty crazy at this point. Thankfully, the other sisters were able to convince (shame?) their reluctant sister into doing the right thing. She signed and everything went smooth after that. It could've been a very messy situation though. They would've had to re-open their mother's estate, and the lawyers would've been involved, and they have a way to eat up estates.
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Had a very quirky uncle with four children and would routinely rewrite his will to remove a child based on some real or perceived slight. Happened over and over.
He passed away very unexpectedly and when they read his most recent will, he had written out his oldest child, who has been wheelchair bound for over 30 years and is an absolute sweetheart. She was flabbergasted and had no idea why.
The happy ending is the other three children said "F That" and agreed to split his assets 4-ways.
The siblings put a smile on my face :)
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When my great grandmother died in an asylum in 1964 the land she owned came to my grandfather and his elder brother. Somehow the elder brother managed to sell it, pocket the money and cut my grandfather out. They barely spoke after that until his death in 1977. I don't know if she had a will or how he did it. Considering the circumstances she died in I doubt it.
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Oohh, a thread I can contribute to!
My Grandmother (mum's side) was a manipulative cow. She liked playing all 4 daughters against each other. One was always on the outs. She also liked to play the "you are in/out of the will" game. 20 years ago, Mum is told she is out of the will for getting a divorce.
Bad relationships continue between Grandmum and slowly everyone else. By the end, my mum is one of the only ones talking to her – mostly because my mum is in healthcare and is useful to her again. Zero grandkids will talk to her, so there is no funeral.
It comes out during the will reading, that my mum was in the will the whole time and was only removed two years before when she forgot to send Grandmum flowers for her birthday.
2 of my mum’s sisters share their inheritance with my mum, but the richest one will not. Rich aunt has also took all the good antiques & paintings while Grandmum was in the hospital. When confronted by her sisters, she was given the ultimatum to return the items to have any relationship with them – she picked the furniture over her sisters. Richest aunt had already inherited a $700,000 house and a cottage from her in-laws.
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My MIL is elderly and has a chronic medical condition, which makes it very likely she will die within a year or two. She also has some dementia She is now living with BIL, one of several sons. My dh is set up in her trust to be the executor, and the trust is written to divide the estate equally between the sons. We have been working to clear out her house in preparation for putting it on the market, because she cannot live alone at this point.
BIL calls us up the other day. His son (one of MIL's many grandchildren) would like to buy MIL's house. There is one small problem. Son is very unlikely to qualify for sufficient mortgage to pay the fair market value on the house. BIL has a brilliant idea. The sale should be an owner finance, never mind that the owner is likely to be dead within two years. MIL may also need funds for her care as her situation deteriorates.
Having no interest in holding a mortgage for my nephew for many years to come, dh tells BIL this is a non-starter. Hectoring ensues. BIL keeps insisting that this is a brilliant way to keep the wealth within the family by avoiding listing fees. Yeah, keep the wealth within HIS family, while we take on the risk of nephew who isn't qualified for the mortgage.
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I have one, but it's long and complicated, and it makes people who are otherwise good and wonderful look bad, so I won't tell it here. I'll just say this: even really good people can act crazy when they think they are entitled to something.
Mostly posting to follow.
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he wanted to be a wizard and ninja when he grew up and now teaches magic and karate.
99.999% of kids who want to grow up to be an astronaut or professional athlete fail...it sounds like this guy accomplished his goals almost exactly...how many people do you know who can honestly say that?
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I mentioned to my brother that if I have any money at the time of my death, I will be leaving it to charity. He became furious - FURIOUS - that I would give it to strangers over his children.
Now I really have to get a decent will made. My current one leaves all my belongings to my sister, assuming she would split it up between others as appropriate. Sister has excellent judgement and no need for my money. I don't want to leave her with problems and animosity and headaches.
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@bluehouse
I hope that means you are changing it to specifically make sure it all goes to charities. LOL. I'm stubborn that way and it would be my reaction to anyone thinking they have a right to the fruit of my hard work. Plus, there's loads of amazing charities out there.
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My MIL is elderly and has a chronic medical condition, which makes it very likely she will die within a year or two. She also has some dementia She is now living with BIL, one of several sons. My dh is set up in her trust to be the executor, and the trust is written to divide the estate equally between the sons. We have been working to clear out her house in preparation for putting it on the market, because she cannot live alone at this point.
BIL calls us up the other day. His son (one of MIL's many grandchildren) would like to buy MIL's house. There is one small problem. Son is very unlikely to qualify for sufficient mortgage to pay the fair market value on the house. BIL has a brilliant idea. The sale should be an owner finance, never mind that the owner is likely to be dead within two years. MIL may also need funds for her care as her situation deteriorates.
Having no interest in holding a mortgage for my nephew for many years to come, dh tells BIL this is a non-starter. Hectoring ensues. BIL keeps insisting that this is a brilliant way to keep the wealth within the family by avoiding listing fees. Yeah, keep the wealth within HIS family, while we take on the risk of nephew who isn't qualified for the mortgage.
Why don't you tell your BIL you have an even more brilliant idea - he can buy his siblings out (if there is any other inheritance money over and above the house, he can use that money) and then he can owner-finance his son's purchase (since he feels his son is a worthwhile risk). That way he can keep the wealth in his family.
Win-win.
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Posting to follow. Not for the first time, I'm glad my family's not wealthy.
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I mentioned to my brother that if I have any money at the time of my death, I will be leaving it to charity. He became furious - FURIOUS - that I would give it to strangers over his children.
Now I really have to get a decent will made. My current one leaves all my belongings to my sister, assuming she would split it up between others as appropriate. Sister has excellent judgement and no need for my money. I don't want to leave her with problems and animosity and headaches.
Yikes! I did the same and gave the majority to my mom to split it as she sees fit. Perhaps I'd better rethink this plan also.
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Posting to follow. Not for the first time, I'm glad my family's not wealthy.
My family isn't wealthy either (like, laughably not wealthy), but that didn't stop them from getting on the crazy train when they though money was involved even if was a small amount.
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forgot, family members lurk here.
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My MIL is elderly and has a chronic medical condition, which makes it very likely she will die within a year or two. She also has some dementia She is now living with BIL, one of several sons. My dh is set up in her trust to be the executor, and the trust is written to divide the estate equally between the sons. We have been working to clear out her house in preparation for putting it on the market, because she cannot live alone at this point.
BIL calls us up the other day. His son (one of MIL's many grandchildren) would like to buy MIL's house. There is one small problem. Son is very unlikely to qualify for sufficient mortgage to pay the fair market value on the house. BIL has a brilliant idea. The sale should be an owner finance, never mind that the owner is likely to be dead within two years. MIL may also need funds for her care as her situation deteriorates.
Having no interest in holding a mortgage for my nephew for many years to come, dh tells BIL this is a non-starter. Hectoring ensues. BIL keeps insisting that this is a brilliant way to keep the wealth within the family by avoiding listing fees. Yeah, keep the wealth within HIS family, while we take on the risk of nephew who isn't qualified for the mortgage.
Why don't you tell your BIL you have an even more brilliant idea - he can buy his siblings out (if there is any other inheritance money over and above the house, he can use that money) and then he can owner-finance his son's purchase (since he feels his son is a worthwhile risk). That way he can keep the wealth in his family.
Win-win.
We did suggest exactly that. Alternatively, BIL could co-sign a loan for his son and thus assume the risk of default for himself. BIL didn't seem nearly as interested. We would like to get the house on the market now though, and not wait for MIL to pass because it is expensive to maintain and routine maintenance, yard work, snow removal, etc., all fall to my husband and it has gotten old.
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We did suggest exactly that. Alternatively, BIL could co-sign a loan for his son and thus assume the risk of default for himself. BIL didn't seem nearly as interested. We would like to get the house on the market now though, and not wait for MIL to pass because it is expensive to maintain and routine maintenance, yard work, snow removal, etc., all fall to my husband and it has gotten old.
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Isn't that typical, though. It's a good idea until you have to assume the risk yourself.
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My family is still wading through a well intentioned but poorly thought out will from my grandparents on my mom's side.
They owned three properties. Two cattle ranches, and the house they lived in. Two siblings lived on the separate cattle ranches, and the third (my mom) eventually moved into the grandparents former house.
Unfortunately, my grandparents divided ownership of each property 1/3 to each sibling. So every sibling is now living on a property that is jointly owned by their two siblings. In addition, the cattle ranches are minor income-producing assets. So the people living on and working the ranches have some undefined obligation (in my passive aggressive family) to share their earned ranch income with siblings that aren't working on the ranch.
After a few years and a semi-successful business deal between the siblings, they ended up suing each other and don't talk to each other anymore. Some are paying rents to others based on old rental deals, and others have defaulted on their mortgage obligations of the properties out of spite, knowing the others will pay the bank instead of letting the property fall into default.
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We did suggest exactly that. Alternatively, BIL could co-sign a loan for his son and thus assume the risk of default for himself. BIL didn't seem nearly as interested.
LOL - that's exactly what I thought would happen.
My family is still wading through a well intentioned but poorly thought out will from my grandparents on my mom's side.
They owned three properties. Two cattle ranches, and the house they lived in. Two siblings lived on the separate cattle ranches, and the third (my mom) eventually moved into the grandparents former house.
Unfortunately, my grandparents divided ownership of each property 1/3 to each sibling. So every sibling is now living on a property that is jointly owned by their two siblings. In addition, the cattle ranches are minor income-producing assets. So the people living on and working the ranches have some undefined obligation (in my passive aggressive family) to share their earned ranch income with siblings that aren't working on the ranch.
After a few years and a semi-successful business deal between the siblings, they ended up suing each other and don't talk to each other anymore. Some are paying rents to others based on old rental deals, and others have defaulted on their mortgage obligations of the properties out of spite, knowing the others will pay the bank instead of letting the property fall into default.
That sucks. My mom wanted to do the same thing basically. I told her I really, really, really don't want to share property with my brother. He doesn't have the money to buy me out and I wouldn't be able to live in any of her properties anyway.
Unfortunately, she has not redone her will. On the good side, I got her to verbally tell me her wishes and I have them recorded in my evernote. My brother and I have not fought since we were kids and have a good relationship. Also, neither of us are greedy. but it is entirely possible we will have different ideas of fairness. I'm pushing her to write a specific will - but she puts it off all the time.
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We did suggest exactly that. Alternatively, BIL could co-sign a loan for his son and thus assume the risk of default for himself. BIL didn't seem nearly as interested.
LOL - that's exactly what I thought would happen.
It's funny how often that happens. At work nearly all customers will negotiate (which I understand), but then they'll start bickering and say shit like, "It's only __," and so my comment to them always is, "Is that's such a small amount, then you shouldn't mind paying it?"
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One within my own family.
In about 2007 my family discovered that my great great grandparents owned a rather large plot of land in the 'old country'. All the land on either side is full developed valuable land. We found out because a less than legitimate firm shall we say converted the lands use to urban and tried to start building on it when a distant local relative noticed. This was then valued at tens of millions and made everyone rather happy and so paperwork sorting to formalise things to pay back taxes etc with a view of a sale. This was complicated by large numbers of heirs (catholic family) depending on which branch of the tree. But all sorted. Then. Financial Crash. Old Country did badly. Very badly. Land dropped in value massively although still with millions, small digits. But, a squatter appeared. One of the more local family tried to get him removed but he produced an old document which stated his family has the right to farm the land. No court case has yet been started. Documents legitimacy unknown, although either way apparently.
Why not? Well most of the family are poor/lower middle income. So any costs really cut into budgets. Some don't even want to pay their share of the tax on the land (which is like, really tiny). So it is all in a very slowly progressing limbo land. Though with no rush as prices are no where near '08 levels. How many had 'counted' on the larger sum I don't know. I stay out off all of it.
Further complicated by heirs starting to die off meaning their descendants and thus even more people are involved.
I find this all rather amusing as do my parents. They are the only 'well off' couple of the family in terms of their share would mean more spendypants holidays and maybe being able to set myself and sibling up well.
For me it doesn't really matter if it ever gets resolved. Sure I could FIRE faster but eh no biggie, looking at less than ten years total of working anyway.
In that situation, I'd consider contacting all the heirs who don't want to pay for the taxes or lawsuit and offering to buy out their interest (assuming the land itself is a good investment). In addition to increasing your portfolio, it might also simplify future related issues since there would be fewer people involved.
Yeah, well, that was 17 years ago. She's 97. Still living. AND, she's outlived both my mother and an aunt. That uncle? Not doing too great, and I think she might outlive him too.
Stories like that are fantastic.
In 1965, an elderly French woman of 90 years with no heirs and a smoking habit, entered a contract with her cunning 47 year old attorney. She sells him her apartment in exchange for life annuity payments. The elderly lady continues to live, eventually outliving him and continuing to receive payments from the deceased attorney's wife, as per the contract. She dies in 1997 at the age of 122 years, the longest human lifespan ever recorded. The attorney and his wife ended up paying more than twice the apartment's value to her over 3 decades.
She was a kickass lady too. She only stopped riding her bicycle after hitting 3 digits, and lived on her own until 110.
People really shouldn't bank on others dying.
It's really just another lesson on the benefits of diversification, with a little bit of actuarial science thrown in.
This is a guy who posted to FB that ... he wanted to be a wizard and ninja when he grew up and now teaches magic and karate.
Wow, that guy's livin' the dream! I mean, it sucks that he's apparently a douche, but you have to be a little impressed that he set wildly fantastical childhood goals and then actually achieved them! Usually folks like that end up as accountants or used-car salesmen or something.
As far as my personal experience, these sorts of issues have been (and will be) minor:
- My mom has complained about not getting some objects of sentimental value from her grandparents.
- My great aunt, who is in her 90s and senile, has her assets being mis-managed (or perhaps misappropriated) by her never-married, shut-in, hoarder son. There's nobody but him who would feel entitled to an inheritance, but it's still sad that her assets getting squandered like they are.
- I'm my parents' sole heir. They're private about money, so between that and uncertainties about healthcare and whatnot I have no idea if I'd inherit anything or not, and am not particularly concerned either way. I just wish I knew if I needed to plan to support them, and could check to make sure their assets aren't invested in something stupid.
- My wife's family is more complicated and dramatic, but I don't expect any of them to leave a non-zero estate anyway.
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There is probably a best selling book buried in this thread already
I don't think it's a best seller but there's a book called Gold Diggers and Deadbeat Dads by Valerie Rind that I'm quite fond of. It's full of cautionary tales starring gigolos, grandma abusers, greedy relatives, con men, gold diggers and an assorted cast of ne'er do wells. She includes a nice list of resources too. The book is written by an attorney with her own horrifying personal story.
I'm a sucker for train wreck financial stories (I rubbernecked the Madoff stuff so hard I practically had to see a chiropractor).
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Posting to follow. Not for the first time, I'm glad my family's not wealthy.
My family isn't wealthy either (like, laughably not wealthy), but that didn't stop them from getting on the crazy train when they though money was involved even if was a small amount.
I attended the funeral of one of my troops a few years ago as his escort. He grew up in a small town petrochemical town in Texas. His wife and his family are light years apart. As soon as they received the notification of his death they were on the phone with her either claiming he owed them money or trying to call dibs on his personal effects and property like his car. Mom and dad weren't too bad, but older sister had a case of meth-mouth, younger sister complained about the embalming smell of his body while viewing it, and older brother showed up to the wake and the actual funeral in a beat up t-shirt. His wife did her best to blow them off and keep them at arm's length and didn't give in to any of them. The mom finally stepped in to reign in the siblings and they dropped the issues. He hadn't talked to his family or been home in years and it was obvious why.
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My one contribution to this thread is a piece of advice: if you’re writing a will or trust, or giving any advice whatsoever to anyone else who’s doing so, make sure that it is written to exclude anyone whom an heir adopts as an adult.
Let me explain, without going into detail since the reason I know this is a family story that’s still happening as we speak. Let’s say that “Dad” has three adult children and leaves money to each of them, but one kid’s money is put in trust because that kid is mentally ill and beyond incompetent with money. That kid also has no kids, so Dad’s will and trust state that when Incompetent Kid dies, any money remaining in the trust will be divided per stirpes among Dad’s “descendants.” What Dad meant was that his other two kids would get it, or if one or both of them was dead by that time, their kids would get it.
Incompetent Kid throws a decade-long hissy fit at the “unfairness” of Dad leaving Incompetent Kid’s money in trust, because Incompetent Kid has—let’s say—a friend or lover they want to leave money to when Incompetent Kid dies.
In many U.S. states, all Incompetent Kid has to do is trot down to a lawyer’s office and a courthouse with that friend, and adopt that friend. The friend could be 42 years old, and Dad could have died ten years ago... doesn’t matter: the adult adoption makes the friend into Dad’s legal descendant! (Note: if Incompetent Kid had married the friend this wouldn’t have worked, but adult adoption does the trick.) So when Incompetent Kid dies, the money remaining in Incompetent Kid’s trust doesn’t get split two ways by Dad’s other two kids... it gets split three ways, with 1/3 going to the adult-adopted friend.
Regardless of what state the person writing the will is in, just write the damn thing so that this can’t happen (or revise it, if it’s already written). You don’t know what state the testator will be a resident of when he or she dies, or whether the law about adult adoption in his/her state will have changed... so just explicitly write it out, in the will, so that this cannot happen!
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My one contribution to this thread is a piece of advice: if you’re writing a will or trust, or giving any advice whatsoever to anyone else who’s doing so, make sure that it is written to exclude anyone whom an heir adopts as an adult.
If this is necessary then I would imagine hiring a lawyer would be best.
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Okay, I have one of these. Names changed to protect the living.
Older lady dies with substantial assets. She’s not a millionaire, but has a house, a car, some nice jewelry, a house full of stuff, and some money. Her will leaves each of her four grandchildren a specific piece of furniture, and her two daughters, Ginger and MaryAnn, are to each get a specific piece of jewelry. Everything else is to be split 50-50 between the daughters.
So, the daughters start going through their mother’s things. If either one gave her mother something, she gets first dibs at it. If the item was not a gift, they take turns picking things they want. Things go well, except for one thing…the jewelry. Ginger was first on the scene, and she got ahold of all the jewelry and she won’t give MaryAnn the ring that was mentioned in the will. She insists that all the jewelry must be valued by a professional jeweler.
So, they have the jewelry valued, and it turns out that MaryAnn’s ring is worth a maybe a thousand more than Ginger’s. Ginger says, “You must let me have $1000 cash/jewelry to make up for the fact that your heirloom is worth more than mine.” MaryAnn gets pissed, and says, “This is ridiculous. You take the more expensive ring, and I’ll take the one she left you.” But now MaryAnn is mad, and feels like her sister is a bitch. She also has a hate on the ring in her possession, because it’s NOT THE ONE HER MOTHER WANTED HER TO HAVE. The hard feelings have started.
MaryAnn has a child who needs a car. She offers to buy the car from the estate. Since she owns 50% of the car (which is worth about $20,000), she says, “I will give you $10,000 cash for your half of the car.” My kid gets the car, and you get $10,000 cash. Ginger says, “No, that’s not fair, you owe me $20,000. The car is worth $20,000 and you are trying to get it for your kid. Stop trying to rob me.” At the lawyer’s office, each sister puts forth her case, the lawyer says that MaryAnn is right, she owns half the car and if she takes the car she owes her sister only $10,000. Ginger grudgingly accepts this, but tells her husband, in MaryAnn’s hearing, that MaryAnn has somehow gotten one over on her. MaryAnn is super pissed.
Ginger and MaryAnn are now feuding like Hatfields and McCoys. They clean out the house, each of them trying to grab as much stuff as possible for their children and themselves. They sell the house and split the money they get for that…and then these women never spend another friendly moment together. They send each other birthday and holiday cards, but other than that, radio silence between them.
Each feels victimized and aggrieved. Each thinks her sister is a cheat and a weasel. MaryAnn can hardly look at the nice ring she has, even though it was her Mother’s, because it is THE WRONG RING. Eventually, years later, Ginger dies. Her children, who had heard the whole story many times, took the ring that was originally meant for MaryAnn, and give it to MaryAnn. MaryAnn thanks them for the ring and offers to give them back The Wrong Ring, which they decline. They are sick to death of the whole thing. So are MaryAnn’s kids.
MaryAnn starts talking that she will have The Wrong Ring turned into pendants or pin by a jeweler, for each of her children/grandchildren. I am one of MaryAnn’s daughters, and I think that a pendant made from that ring would have eternally bad juju. It would just remind us that when our Grandmother died, our Mom and Aunt lost each other as sisters. That’s a heck of a story to go with a piece of gold.
Also: GO CLEMSON TIGERS!
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When my grandmother passed away she left her estate to my father, uncle (estranged), and myself. The only problem was that my uncle was a recluse that suffered from schizophrenia and ignored all phone calls and letters from the estate attorney. The attorney couldn't move forward without my uncles signature but eventually my father was able to make contact with him and convince him to meet with the attorney.
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My one contribution to this thread is a piece of advice: if you’re writing a will or trust, or giving any advice whatsoever to anyone else who’s doing so, make sure that it is written to exclude anyone whom an heir adopts as an adult.
If this is necessary then I would imagine hiring a lawyer would be best.
Hiring a lawyer is always best when it comes to doing your will. It's not a big investment for most people, and if it is expensive, that means your estate and your plans for it are complicated--in other words, you were all but guaranteed to screw it up if you didn't get a lawyer.
And the thing is, you have no way of knowing in advance if it will be necessary. Most people's will leaves something to "descendants" or "children" or "grandchildren," etc., in addition to the bequests to specific, named people, because that's far more efficient than redrafting your will every time a new kid or grandkid is born or every time someone you were leaving something to dies. And if your will does that, your intentions could be subverted by an heir adopting a friend or lover of theirs. They could do it in secret before you die, or after you die--in short, they could do it without you knowing--so you truly have no way to know whether you're going to need this in your will. Unless you are fine with some portion of your property potentially going to a random friend that an heir of yours adopts as an adult, you have to write your will so that it can't do that.
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... You don’t know what state the testator will be a resident of when he or she dies ...
I always enjoy reading estate law cases that contain choice-of-law issues, or generally where the court is required to apply the law of another jurisdiction. One opinion I enjoyed reading recently was In re Estate of O'Dea, 29 Cal App 3d 759 (https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=14988172099213825610) (CA Ct App 1973). In that case, the California court was forced to wade into Canadian constitutional law to determine whether an Alberta statute was within the powers of the Legislature of Alberta, which in turn was relevant to what effect (if any) the Alberta enactment had under California law.
(I am aware that this post is only tangentially related to the text I quoted.)
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Hiring a lawyer is always best when it comes to doing your will. It's not a big investment for most people, and if it is expensive, that means your estate and your plans for it are complicated--in other words, you were all but guaranteed to screw it up if you didn't get a lawyer.
I would personally say you can get away with something like ZegalZoom or Quicken Wills if you're young with limited assets and no kids. Once you start getting material assets and kids are in the picture, a will and trust are the way to go.
Some employers offer legal insurance or prepaid legal plans as part of open enrollment. They're normally a horrible deal, but they turn into an excellent deal if you use one to get a trust put together. We did this last year, and it was well worth it. I think we spent less than $200 for a full will, trust, and related power of attorney.
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he wanted to be a wizard and ninja when he grew up and now teaches magic and karate.
99.999% of kids who want to grow up to be an astronaut or professional athlete fail...it sounds like this guy accomplished his goals almost exactly...how many people do you know who can honestly say that?
Since you were one of two to comment on this part of my post, I'll note that he was able to do this because his parents mortgaged their house to pay for his college (no student loans), my MIL pays his health and business liability insurance, bought at least 2 of his cars, he doesn't have to pay rent because he squatted his parents rental house (MIL just replaced the HVAC), and he rents out parts of his house to friends. When your living expenses are pretty close to net $0, you can do pretty much anything you want. His fb post was taken to task by his friends who basically said slagging your friends/family isn't such a great idea. His fb post was most definitely in a defensive tone. He should be one of the most grateful people in the world, but he most definitely is not. He's nice enough in person, but his actions (and fb posts) belie his (in person) words.
My family isn't much better, but the sadder part is they're worried about less money. My sister is divorced with 2 kids and lives with my mom, probably for the indefinite future. My mother just sold her old house that she couldn't afford and bought another(less than 10% down). It will probably go to my sister when she dies and will likely be her only real asset. My brother thinks this is unfair. Of course, he has been a financial leech on my mother for numerous years despite the fact that she doesn't have the money to fund his mess ups, and, in fact, has gone into debt herself to pay for them.
I love my family and my wife loves hers but this is why we don't live in either of our hometowns.
Thanks to the initiator of this thread. This has been incredibly cathartic. I've talked to no one but my wife about this.
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This sort of thing is what I have nightmares about. Not the idea of not getting anything, but everyone turning into a crazed money-hungry monster.
When I was 15 my parents took me aside and told me if anything happened to them they wanted me to look after my (8 years younger) brother. It made sense, the kid and I get along well. What alarmed me was that they had specifically provisions in their will for me to have extra money and resources for this purpose.
Given that I have two other siblings as well as my younger brother I thought this could end very badly if they actually died and the will was executed. Not that I think my other sibs are money hungry jerks, just that money changes people and my parents wouldn't say how much they were talking about.
Luckily this problem is fixing itself, my kid bro turns 18 next week.
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On one side of my family, the only drama after grandparents died was over personal possessions rather than money. Some of my parents generation placed extreme sentimental value on specific items, and other members of that generation scooped them up without asking or discussing. I don't think it was malicious, but it certainly upset some folks who didn't realize their siblings had such hard-ons for certain pieces of furniture or whatever.
On the other side of the family, things got significantly more complicated because one of my poor/needy cousins was living in my grandparent's house (at well below market rent, but not for free) after the grandparent moved into a nursing home. All of the siblings who equally inherited a portion of that house wanted to sell it and split the proceeds, except of course the sibling whose kid was living in the house, who naturally argued that if grandparent was offering cut-rate rent then they clearly wanted the cousins to have the house. That sibling refused to buy out the other siblings, even though there was plenty of money available in the inheritance to do so. Much of the drama came from spouses of siblings, rather than the siblings themselves.
In the end, the sibling who was the executor had to evict my cousin, sell the house, and then equal distributing the proceeds. It took several years for family holiday dinners to get back to semi-normal because there was this lingering anger over the eviction of a family member. Who was present at said dinners with the person who evicted them.
Lesson 1: before you make your will, ask your kids/grandkids what specific items they most want to have after you die. Don't assume, ask. Write it into the will.
Lesson 2: disposing of real estate is difficult, and potentially more so if it's rented. Unless you're stewarding a family estate/castle, try to die without any.
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Thanks to the initiator of this thread. This has been incredibly cathartic. I've talked to no one but my wife about this.
You're welcome. The main reason I wanted to hear other people's experiences with inheritances is because I don't understand what the hell some people are thinking, and it's horrifying (and entertaining, in an awful, trainwreck sort of way) to hear about what people think they're entitled to, and how they betray family over money and things, and it seems like most of the people in this thread have their heads on straight.
Also, each of these terrible stories shows me who not to become, what not to do. They're helping me shape myself into a better person- so thank you as well, for sharing.
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Step-dad actually gave us great advice about sentimental items – if you really want it, talk to them while they are alive. DH took his advice and got a clock from each set of his grandparents. There were some family members that were annoyed, until they realized both clocks are broken and the repair bill will be more than they are worth.
Co-worker: Divorced when her kid was a toddler. As part of the divorce agreement, Ex has to have life insurance with the kid as a beneficiary. I think it was about $10,000. Ex moves to the other side of the country, new family with SAHW etc. Ends up dying fairly young of known health issue. We can all see where this is going right?
Ex didn’t take out any more life insurance, and his new wife got really ugly with the kid (who was now about 15). Wanted the kid to surrender all the $ to her, to take care of kid’s half-siblings. Kid kept the cash, put it in a college fund. Mostly because my co-worker ended up paying most of the funeral expenses herself because Ex's family is always broke.
Family member: Grandmother repeatedly tells grandkids she has changed her will to give most of it to her 6 grandkids (she had two sons, Bert and Ernie, but only Bert is still living). Bert is doing very well for himself, and Grandmother doesn’t like his second wife – blames the wife for Bert never visiting.
Final will leaves 75% to Bert, 25% split amongst the 6 grandkids. This isn't what Grandmother kept saying, but ok, no problem.
Except - The will also happened to be have been re-written during one of her many periods of hospitalization, with one of Bert’s buddies acting as a witness. Bert’s kids decide it’s not worth it to challenge, and the Ernie's kids stop speaking to Bert completely.
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I received a phone call from my Uncle a year after: My parents had paid for half of my grandmother's funeral expenses. My uncle wanted the four grandchildren (his three ages 22-28, plus me) to split his half.
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I just learned about this--apparently when my father-in-law was literally hours away from death my two youngest sisters-in-law were going around his house putting different-colored sticky notes on the furniture they wanted, which was most of it. Sigh.
After my grand-father passed away, my grand-mother told her kids (my dad is one of five), to put sticky notes on anything they wanted in the house - for when she would eventually pass. My aunts and uncles live relatively close (max 400 km for the farthest). My dad lives 800 km away and as such, wasn't able to participate in such ridiculousness because he wasn't around soon enough. My grand-mother also favours her two girls anyway. She is still alive at 96, my father is 63 and frankly couldn't give a shit about accumulating more stuff (my parents are epic mustachians and are multi-millionaires in their own right). Old photo albums and my grand-father's war medals are the only things my father would have liked to have (or at least a few photos). But since he wasn't around, my grand-mother told him, «meh, tough, should have been there».
No one in my family is poor, everyone has done very well for themselves - why do you need some furniture then? I don't get it.
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Step-dad actually gave us great advice about sentimental items – if you really want it, talk to them while they are alive.
Yep.
My spouse recently collected the single household item he had hoped to inherit from his grandmother. She is still alive and healthy but is in the process of decluttering the house. As far as we know, no one else was coveting this piece, and spouse, who has never asked for or received anything else, is happy and content. He says if he inherits anything after his grandmother's passing, it will be icing on the cake.
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On one side of my family, the only drama after grandparents died was over personal possessions rather than money. Some of my parents generation placed extreme sentimental value on specific items, and other members of that generation scooped them up without asking or discussing. I don't think it was malicious, but it certainly upset some folks who didn't realize their siblings had such hard-ons for certain pieces of furniture or whatever.
On the other side of the family, things got significantly more complicated because one of my poor/needy cousins was living in my grandparent's house (at well below market rent, but not for free) after the grandparent moved into a nursing home. All of the siblings who equally inherited a portion of that house wanted to sell it and split the proceeds, except of course the sibling whose kid was living in the house, who naturally argued that if grandparent was offering cut-rate rent then they clearly wanted the cousins to have the house. That sibling refused to buy out the other siblings, even though there was plenty of money available in the inheritance to do so. Much of the drama came from spouses of siblings, rather than the siblings themselves.
In the end, the sibling who was the executor had to evict my cousin, sell the house, and then equal distributing the proceeds. It took several years for family holiday dinners to get back to semi-normal because there was this lingering anger over the eviction of a family member. Who was present at said dinners with the person who evicted them.
Lesson 1: before you make your will, ask your kids/grandkids what specific items they most want to have after you die. Don't assume, ask. Write it into the will.
Lesson 2: disposing of real estate is difficult, and potentially more so if it's rented. Unless you're stewarding a family estate/castle, try to die without any.
This reminds me of a friend and her grandfather.
Her grandfather had a slow decline, to where he could not care for himself and was in a wheelchair. He had some "money", as in - he'd owned a business and sold it. He also owned a house and a small lot next door, which they used as a yard (but it was a buildable lot).
His will was essentially set up to split everything among his sons, but nothing to his daughters (wow that sounds familiar). However, for the last 10-20 years, his grandson and family (wife, kids) lived with him in his house. His grandson (his daughter's son) cared for him, bathed him, fed him, etc. They paid rent and all utilities.
I really don't know the details of what happened when he died, but it looked to my friend that her brother and his family would be evicted, the house and lot would be sold separately. (This is a very expensive town, there is no way they could buy a house). In the end, the brother and family bought the house. Now, I don't know if they had to buy everyone out, if the will was changed to leave some to him, if the will was changed to leave some to the daughters, or what. But I'm very very happy that they were able to purchase the house, considering that he physically cared for the grandfather for so long.
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Step-dad actually gave us great advice about sentimental items – if you really want it, talk to them while they are alive.
Yep.
My spouse recently collected the single household item he had hoped to inherit from his grandmother. She is still alive and healthy but is in the process of decluttering the house. As far as we know, no one else was coveting this piece, and spouse, who has never asked for or received anything else, is happy and content. He says if he inherits anything after his grandmother's passing, it will be icing on the cake.
My parents divorced when I was a teen. My mom left with literally the clothing on her back. I moved in with her 6 months later, at the end of a school year (had to change schools).
She was still a little bitter, decades later, of the stuff she left there.
My dad died about 20 years after the divorce. My mom REALLY wanted her corn dishes. She had done ceramics for a few years, and had these dishes shaped like ears of corn, plus a platter, that she had made. Well, I flew back for my dad's burial. His will told my sister the executor to just "sell everything and divide the proceeds 7 ways". Let me tell you, my dad was the original Mustachian. There was not a single item in that house worth selling. Really. The walls still had dark wood paneling. The carpet in the living room was multicolor shag from 1971 (this was 2008). She expressly told everyone at the house after the burial "take what you want, the rest is getting dumped".
Long story short, I got my mom's corn dishes for her. She passed a few years ago too, but I think I might end up with them someday when my stepfather passes.
Best part about that burial day was going through a closet and finding a hanging clothing bag. Unzipped it to find one of my sister's prom dresses from the 1980s. Argued about whether it was hers or not. Anyway, pull out the dress and find my dad's Army uniform behind it, from WWII. What a treasure. We could have easily tossed the bag and never known it was there.
Also: selling the house was pretty easy. Sold full price within a week, in rural PA.
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Wow what an epic thread!
Dewey Cheatum and Howe
Gack I nearly peed myself with that one. The best part is that I know two guys (Dewey and Howe) who kind of really look alike and really really act alike and they are both pricks in a too-smart-fer-yer-own-good but still impishly likable kind of way. Ooohh, if only my name was Cheatum and we were all JD's, not PhD's. Besides the awesome hilarious pun, I will never be able to think about these two guys in the same way again since I know realize that they were so obviously twins separated at birth.
lets call her Grace.
because its a nice name.
and she was my grandmother.
This spoke to me.
One of my grandmother's was like this.
Let's call her Grace, too.
My Grandmother Grace got tossed out of her nursing home for biting another resident during a grannies-with-walkers full contact cat fight, Lord rest her gentle soul.
Lesson 2: disposing of real estate is difficult, and potentially more so if it's rented. Unless you're stewarding a family estate/castle, try to die without any.
Sage advice, Sol, and honestly I had never much thought about it before. I shall now try very hard not to die with any.
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Hiring a lawyer is always best when it comes to doing your will. It's not a big investment for most people, and if it is expensive, that means your estate and your plans for it are complicated--in other words, you were all but guaranteed to screw it up if you didn't get a lawyer.
I would personally say you can get away with something like ZegalZoom or Quicken Wills if you're young with limited assets and no kids. Once you start getting material assets and kids are in the picture, a will and trust are the way to go.
I completely agree. I wasn't even thinking of young people with no kids and minimal assets, since they generally don't do wills at all and there's no great tragedy if they fail to (no kids left unsupported, etc., and if they're married and die young, the spouse will typically get at least half if not all the assets automatically). But yeah, as soon as you're out of that demographic, you need a real lawyer, a will and a trust.
Some employers offer legal insurance or prepaid legal plans as part of open enrollment. They're normally a horrible deal, but they turn into an excellent deal if you use one to get a trust put together. We did this last year, and it was well worth it. I think we spent less than $200 for a full will, trust, and related power of attorney.
Wow, that's a great deal!
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Luckily this problem is fixing itself, my kid bro turns 18 next week.
I don't think this problem fixes itself unless your parents made that portion of the will time-sensitive. You might want to check that they're doing a new one.
Step-dad actually gave us great advice about sentimental items – if you really want it, talk to them while they are alive.
It's a very minor thing, but when my grandmother was going to downsize, we were asked if there was anything we wanted. I mentioned a knickknack that I had always loved, and apparently I was the only person to mention, so that was fairly easy (they also gave me a second item that was similar to the first which I hadn't known about but was arguably cooler).
However, there was another sentimental thing that I couldn't have asked for while she was alive. I mentioned it after she passed (she never got out of the hospital to do the downsizing move), but it had "disappeared". Some things went missing during the open house, and I really hope it was taken by someone who knew why it was important, rather than a random thief. My Dad implied it was a family member, but even years later it annoys that they won't just admit it.
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Step-dad actually gave us great advice about sentimental items – if you really want it, talk to them while they are alive.
Yep.
My spouse recently collected the single household item he had hoped to inherit from his grandmother. She is still alive and healthy but is in the process of decluttering the house. As far as we know, no one else was coveting this piece, and spouse, who has never asked for or received anything else, is happy and content. He says if he inherits anything after his grandmother's passing, it will be icing on the cake.
My parents divorced when I was a teen. My mom left with literally the clothing on her back. I moved in with her 6 months later, at the end of a school year (had to change schools).
She was still a little bitter, decades later, of the stuff she left there.
My dad died about 20 years after the divorce. My mom REALLY wanted her corn dishes. She had done ceramics for a few years, and had these dishes shaped like ears of corn, plus a platter, that she had made. Well, I flew back for my dad's burial. His will told my sister the executor to just "sell everything and divide the proceeds 7 ways". Let me tell you, my dad was the original Mustachian. There was not a single item in that house worth selling. Really. The walls still had dark wood paneling. The carpet in the living room was multicolor shag from 1971 (this was 2008). She expressly told everyone at the house after the burial "take what you want, the rest is getting dumped".
Long story short, I got my mom's corn dishes for her. She passed a few years ago too, but I think I might end up with them someday when my stepfather passes.
Best part about that burial day was going through a closet and finding a hanging clothing bag. Unzipped it to find one of my sister's prom dresses from the 1980s. Argued about whether it was hers or not. Anyway, pull out the dress and find my dad's Army uniform behind it, from WWII. What a treasure. We could have easily tossed the bag and never known it was there.
Also: selling the house was pretty easy. Sold full price within a week, in rural PA.
Good story, mm1970! Thank goodness that clothing bag didn't get thrown out.
I especially like your description of the house, '70s swag carpet and all. There's been a bit of grumbling in one branch of my family for the opposite reason: a house that has been partially remodeled after a widowed family member remarried. The new spouse has caught all the blame for updating the home. Clearly, the grown children think it's a slap in the face to the departed.
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I also wish to add that this thread has reminded me that I need to use the words "hectored" and "hectoring" more often.
Also, I witnessed the "why didn't you just sell your house before you died!" squabble when my brother's grandmother-in-law died. (Aside: Am I the only one having trouble following some of the relationships in this thread?)
She left her small house & surrounding fair amount of rural property to be evenly divided between something like 10 grandchildren (who were all grown and had spouses and their own children). Although it was only worth something like $110K total (that's total, not each), her heirs simply could not agree on what it was worth or what to do with it. I don't know if it was legal entanglements that held up everything or if there was some unspoken moral obligation to reach consensus before doing anything.
Some wanted to fix up the house, subdivide the land, and sell it in smaller plots to the highest bidders, some wanted to sell it "as is" as quickly as possible to the first bidder, some wanted to sell it only if someone in the family bought it, some family members wanted to buy it but thought it was worth less than the "selling" family members thought, and some wanted to never sell it at all. Protracted bickering ensued.
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Parents divorce 40 years ago. Two children, adults at time of divorce. Son was 18, Daughter is several years older.
Father remarries shortly after. Daughter "hates" step mother (SM), tries to convince Son of same. Minimal contact between Father and daughter. Fast forward 35 years. Father has had a good life, SM had successful career and enabled Father to live a good life. Father was very happy with his life but was disappointed with Daughter because she never did anything with her (very expensive) college education. Father's relation with Son is not close but good. Father is proud of Son's accomplishments despite no college degree.
Father contracts terminal cancer. SM provides all care. After Father dies, before will is read, Daughter informs SM that she will come to collect Father's possessions, completely ignoring 35 years of marriage and SM's loss. SM refuses. Will is read, all Father's assets are left to SM except for equal, small (low 5 figure) tax-free cash bequests to Daughter and Son.
Back to Mother. Daughter has limited contact with Mother. Lives out of state and only talks when Mother calls Daughter. Mother is sad about this. Son asks Daughter about this and is told it is "too hard" to talk to Mother. This goes on for roughly 40 years.
Fast forward 2 years from Father's death. Mother suffers catastrophic but not life threatening illness and has to go to nursing home. Mother lives in same town as Son so Son takes care of all arrangements. Sister comes out to visit but is not interested in spending time with Mother. Instead Daughter is only interested in Mother's possessions.
Acrimony ensues. Son tells Daughter that he is not interested in Mother's possessions, he is concerned about Mother. Daughter takes this to mean that Son will "throw out" all of Mother's possessions.
Mother, Daughter and Son meet. Mother tells children to split possessions equally between them except for one higher-value item that is given to Son's wife specifically. Daughter proceeds to pack up everything she wants with little to no consideration for Son's desires and with no inventory of what she is taking.
Son is working and caring for Mother. Daughter visiting, focused on packing everything she wants and does not have "time" to go see Mother. Son is pissed off and tells Daughter to get her priorities straight. Much drama ensues. Daughter states she "is only trying to get stuff to remember her happy childhood." Implies that Son is reason for parents divorce. Daughter is also upset that Mother chose to live near Son despite the fact that Daughter never communicated with Mother for 40 years. Son is upset that Daughter is focused on taking mothers possessions when Mother is still living and needs comfort from both children not just Son. Daughter leaves with possessions and is not expected to return soon. Typically she only visited Mother for a few days once every 3-5 years. Remaining household possessions Daughter does not want are left for Son to deal with.
Mother has limited assets which will be sucked dry by nursing home costs within a year. Both Daughter and Son are comfortable financially. Daughter has less assets but has good cash flow from husband's pension and SS. Son has good assets and is still working.
Daughter has no children. Son has two children and one grandson.
Summary: Daughter is only interested in "things" despite having no heirs. Son is caring for Mother. Mother still does not understand why Daughter does not call or visit her.
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Lesson 2: disposing of real estate is difficult, and potentially more so if it's rented. Unless you're stewarding a family estate/castle, try to die without any.
Sage advice, Sol, and honestly I had never much thought about it before. I shall now try very hard not to die with any.
This might be great advice for mustachians, but for the general public probably not. Your primary residence is exempt from Medicaid's assets limit (generally speaking and with some limitations), so you could easily run into a situation where having the heirs sell the home means that they get the proceeds, where if it had been sold during the owner's life, that money would have gone towards long-term care costs.
PS: Dewey, Cheatum and Howe is an old, old, old joke. :)
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PS: Dewey, Cheatum and Howe is an old, old, old joke. :)
Yep, I first saw it on the Three Stooges, IIRC. Later Click and Clack credit the firm as being their legal council, while reading their totally silly credits, following each episode of Car Talk.
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lets call her Grace.
because its a nice name.
and she was my grandmother.
This spoke to me.
One of my grandmother's was like this.
Let's call her Grace, too.
My Grandmother Grace got tossed out of her nursing home for biting another resident during a grannies-with-walkers full contact cat fight, Lord rest her gentle soul.
.
LOL
Grace was ejected from bingo for attacking someone with her handbag.
Apparently it wasn't the first time because she was banned after that.
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oh man there are so many!
My Grandmother was crazy as a freaking loon, and NASTY to boot. Sheliterally told my mom when my sister was dying that the brain cancer was my moms fault because she took the baby to the hospital, she was kicked out of ALL of the senior centers, senior buses, convenience stores, and grocery stores in her town for being a nasty cow to everyone, and was even kicked out of the hospital on Easter after throwing a bag of frozen pearled onions at my father who had just been admitted to ICU for a collapsed lung while screaming at him how she wanted her damn 85c for her "portion" of dinner since he ruined it.
Mom STILL bent over backwards to help her out as she was mom's only family. My worthless brother was ALWAYS GM's favorite, he could do no wrong and was just the "misunderstood" black sheep of the family (for the record, my brother is now 45, and has been living with my mom for the past 10 years). well mom had given my GM a car (our old one when the fourth child, me, was born) paid her rent in the old folks home etc over the years. GM passes away and there isn't much of an estate, but what WAS left was a note to my mother that she better pay for her God Damn funeral and that she'd left all her life insurance to my brother (who was at the time married, it was about 50k). My parents were always poor due to my dads non stop health issues so mom approached brother and his wife to ask for 2k of the life insurance for a cremation and head stone. My brothers ex wife promptly told my mom to fuck off, they had earned the life insurance money and that GM wanted mom to foot the bill. They promptly took a very expensive vacation and exactly one year later they declared their SECOND bankruptcy together.
We're currently dealing with drama on my husbands side over his grandfathers estate...we'll see how bad that drama gets.
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Holy cow, there is some pathological behavior in this thread.
DH's dad called him up a couple of years ago to inform him that he was being removed from the will because we don't have kids. DH doesn't care about an inheritance, but he was understandably pissed off, on principle.
There was never going to be much, even before considering that DH's dad + spouse have a zillion grandkids. But recently they sold their house and used the proceeds to apply to a retirement community that also provides assisted living and nursing home care, so now I expect there to be exactly nothing.
Like I said, we don't care (and didn't even before we were disinherited, ha), but DH's sister is pretty pissed. She and her husband have been foreclosed on twice yet always seem to have two new SUV loans - you know the type.
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I'm not going into the whole drama, but my husband's grandmother specified that everything be split 50/50 between the two daughters. The only problem is that there were assets that there was no way could be split 50/50, in particular a piece of family land that had a cabin that the grandfather had built. But the grandmother just kept with, everything, 50/50. One daughter was sentimentally attached to the land and wanted to keep it in the family, the other wanted to either buy out the land/cabin at a discounted rate, or sell it and split the money 50/50. It looked like the daughter who was not attached to it would prevail and buy them out because she had more material assets, but it ended up my husband's mother (and father) were able to buy her out, because they had saved yes! f-u money. Sadly the sisters' relationship was already strained before the mother's death, and now the other sister no longer speaks to her. Sad. This really underlined to me the importance of money for these power dynamics.
Another story not quite as bad, is my great grandfather died, and in addition to some blue chip stocks, my mother inherited some piece of furniture (armoire?) from his house that she always admired. But, she never went to get it or arrange to have it shipped (different city). Some 15 years later she gets around to visit and that and the other pieces of family furniture were gone (presumbably sold by the uncle's wife). My mother was shocked and outraged that they sold the family furniture, but for some reason find it slightly humorous. From what I remember the furniture in his house was big dark-stained hulking pieces (think Addams family).
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I sincerely hope I never have anything to contribute here. Posting to follow the gossip.
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^^I'm sorry, but if someone leaves a big hulking piece of furniture sitting in someone else's house for one year (let alone 15), then that person fully deserves to discover that it has disappeared.
DH's dad called him up a couple of years ago to inform him that he was being removed from the will because we don't have kids. DH doesn't care about an inheritance, but he was understandably pissed off, on principle.
Oh no! That's exactly what Grace the Biter did to my aunt (Mom's youngest sister). Right there in front of us all announced that she wasn't leaving anything at all to that sister because, in her exact words, "you don't have any heirs." Sounds bitchy, right? Well now consider it in context: this particular aunt of mine did in fact have a son. He was tragically born with x-linked muscular dystrophy that caused a lifetime of progressive disability until he died in his teens a few years before this conversation.
So, when Grace started to get batty a few years later and my aunt decided to start slyly pilfering whatever she wanted while Grace was still alive, it actively pissed off my Mom and other aunt, but I always felt that Grace basically deserved it. Ironically, my Mom has finally had the nerve to get rid of every single item that Grace foisted upon her with a big song-dance-and-guilt trip over many years.
And yes, I'm sure Grace the biter, like any 3-year-old enrolled in a new preschool, also was granted clemency for multiple incidents involving bite wounds before they finally tossed her out.
But I can't even come close to winning the meanest Grandma contest with Grace the biter. That award goes go the Grandma of this guy I used to work with, who had a continuous stream of the most outrageous stories of old lady evil because he continued to go over there every week to mow her lawn, drive her to the store, etc. He was constantly putting himself in the line of fire by bringing her little presents that she would request. When presented, the item ended up drawing her wrath because he was being "so cheap!" by buying exactly what she said she wanted. Pretty sure this guy was also one of the original mustachians, so he neither needed nor wanted a penny from her. Perhaps he kept going over there week after week just to have another story to tell at work?
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When my wife was a child, her family was in a car accident and she (my wife) went through the windshield. Family recieved money damages because of her injuries.
With those monies, wife's family was able to afford a deposit on a house. It was by owning that home, they started on the path to a solid middle class life.
Because of that, wife's parents have said that wife gets the house and then the rest is split 50/50 with her other sibling. Wife told other sibling, don't worry, we're splitting everything down the middle, including the house. She's a good girl.
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My one contribution to this thread is a piece of advice: if you’re writing a will or trust, or giving any advice whatsoever to anyone else who’s doing so, make sure that it is written to exclude anyone whom an heir adopts as an adult.
Hmm. I'm adopting my daughter out of foster care as a teenager, it's very likely that I will adopt more, and since I'm adopting teenagers (as opposed to the more fashionable babies or toddlers) it's probable that one or more will reach the age of majority, "aging out of the system", before the adoption is finalized. That wouldn't make them any less a son or daughter of mine. Now, my parents for a variety of logistics reasons aren't going out of their way to be welcoming or inclusive, but if they were to preemptively disinherit one of my kids for being adopted, or for being adopted after their 18th birthday because of administrative nonsense beyond their control, it would really piss me off.
I really don't care what my parents do with their money, and although they're rather affluent I don't expect an inheritance because they make stupid investment decisions. Even if they die in a non-broke condition, for me it's not about the money. It's about control. I don't let my parents manipulate me while alive, so I'm not going to let them do it after my death. I'm not a fan of manipulative "dead hand" stunts to control what heirs do with an inheritance.
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My family today is still involved in a tussle over my great-grandfather's property following his death in the mid-1960s.
Bis-abuelo left his wife and 4 living adult children in NYC to go back to the hillbilly farm in Puerto Rico, found another woman to take care of him, and fathered one last daughter. Said farm was less than 10 acres, and a shack with no running water. All 5 children inherited equally, but because of bad blood between first family and second family, and bad official record-keeping, legal status of property is screwed up beyond belief. Youngest daughter, by virtue of being on the property, managed to replace shack with better but un-permitted house for herself, then second house (also without permits) for her son's family. All original heirs are deceased, so now there are 2nd and 3rd generation heirs. Tax liens from time to time because title was never properly transferred to 1st-generation heirs and notices delivered to property address, although taxes have been mostly paid by the 2nd/3rd heirs living in NY/NJ/CT/FL/HI.
Every few years, the question of what to do with it flares up again. Not an income property, no longer useful as farm, can't sell without agreement of all remaining heirs, and would have to tackle the C of O for the new houses, not to mention any liens, back taxes and re-survey -- all to happen within Puerto Rican bureaucracy. My brother took about 6 months last year speaking with a local lawyer about the survey and getting taxes current again -- but the question of forcing out the descendant living on the property or suing them touched off another round of recriminations ("Mom/Dad/abuela would have wanted us to ...").
So, 50 years later, each heir is fighting over 1/10th share or less, while not having enough money to buy out anyone else's share and repair the legal deficiencies of the property. I suppose they are all waiting for some mythical RE developer to hand them lottery-sized checks while picking up all the expenses, thus justifying the word "inheritance" but since it can't even be torched for profit and none of us are in the meth business, I think that relinquishing it all to the illegitimate grandson who lives on the property without compensation is worth the peace of mind.
My Mom periodically threatens to die just so that I, as her executor and oldest heir, can wade through this muck.
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^^I'm sorry, but if someone leaves a big hulking piece of furniture sitting in someone else's house for one year (let alone 15), then that person fully deserves to discover that it has disappeared.
Even if it's the only known door to Narnia, I agree.
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I'm not going into the whole drama, but my husband's grandmother specified that everything be split 50/50 between the two daughters. The only problem is that there were assets that there was no way could be split 50/50, in particular a piece of family land that had a cabin that the grandfather had built. But the grandmother just kept with, everything, 50/50. One daughter was sentimentally attached to the land and wanted to keep it in the family, the other wanted to either buy out the land/cabin at a discounted rate, or sell it and split the money 50/50.
Protip: If it's just between two people, there is an optimal way to split things 50/50. First note that selling the property and splitting the proceeds DOES benefit both parties equally; however something feels "wrong" with this approach since one was more attached to it than the other. And it might not be optimal if the property were, e.g., worth $70k to her, but she only received $50k as her share of the sale.
The best way to do it is to have each daughter make a silent bid (they could simultaneously exchange slips of paper on which they wrote their bid amount) to decide the winner. Then the winner gets to have the property, and gives some cash to the loser. With numbers, this might work as
A bids $70k
B bids $60k.
Then A gets the property, and sends $70k/2 = 35k to B. In the end, A feels like she received $35k and B feels like she received $35k, and neither "envies" the other's position.
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My brother has lately been noticing little bits and pieces of family history around my house. I finally have a house with room to display some of these items that I've been storing (in my own closets) and carting around move after move for over 20 years. The items are completely worthless and believe me, no one wanted them when they died. They aren't even very pretty, so usually I put them on the top shelves of cabinets as a little quirk when opening a cabinet door (makes me smile, and stops me from buying other stuff to put on the top shelf of cabinets that I can't reach anyway).
The last time he was here, he kept complaining that I got "all the family heirlooms". I finally said "take them. take whatever you want." It was then that he (and I) realized (again) that neither of us really wants any of it.
As an example, the last item that brought this out was an ugly-ass ceramic flower pot, in the shape of a donkey toting a cart (the pot part). My grandmother always kept it on her kitchen table with African Violets in it. It's so ugly, that it's somewhat appealing. Anyway, it always makes me laugh. So that flowerpot goes from the top shelf in my kitchen cabinet to on my kitchen table about once per year. My friends LOVE it when I put it out, because it is so NOT me. I have a mostly-minimalist house and this thing looks so out of place that you cannot help but stare at it and admire the crazy of anyone who likes it.
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^^I'm sorry, but if someone leaves a big hulking piece of furniture sitting in someone else's house for one year (let alone 15), then that person fully deserves to discover that it has disappeared.
Even if it's the only known door to Narnia, I agree.
I agree. That's why I found it humorous. People get weird when people die. They want to grab a piece of them in the form of some memento that gets blown out of proportion.
For my family, the most important thing to me, was my piano music sheets, one of my grandmother's crocheted blankets- done and done), and family photos. I visited my Mom a few years ago and I wanted to take some personal effects of mine. It was about 5 inches of paperwork (first stories I ever wrote, drawings, school reports, sat, gre test results) stored in a cubby labeled with my name. She had thrown them out, though cubbies with the other kids' name still had their stuff. And she still had entire file cabinets filled with 20-40 year old papers of her own. She wouldn't give me any family photos or let me make copies. So I already know there is nothing in the house that I want. My father lives in an efficiency apartment. He allowed me to make a copy of a couple family photos (there is only a few) and so that's done. Neither has a will. It will be a mess when my Mom dies, for multiple reasons.
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I feel kinda glad that there isn't any nostalgic memories associated with anything my family members own. There might be some squables about finances, but I trust my siblings to be reasonable. It also helps that both of them have business-degrees, I suspect that they may be a pain if it comes down to negotiating, but I'm sure we can settle in such a way that everyone's happy.
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Some of the stories are truly sad.
I know when my paternal grandmother passed there was some drama but my parents refuse to share any of the details with my brothers or myself.
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You people have officially ruined the name "Grace" for me.
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When my mother (unmarried to my father, and the sole earner since my sister and I were born) tragically died when my sister and I were 16 and 13, and didn't leave 100% of her assets (mostly life insurance from her job) to our father, our father tried to sue me, his high school-aged daughter, for my share (properly recognizing that "caring" for my younger sister was a cash cow he shouldn't slaughter).
Looking back, the reason it started with just threatening vague letters from a lawyer was that he had no leg to stand on, but jesus. and I still talked to him for several years after that! Idiotic.
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I'm an only child, and both parents have remarried. I have 2 step siblings on my father's side and none on my mother's. All four grandparents are still alive and well into their 80s as well.
My paternal grandparents are fairly wealthy AFAIK. The will, from what I remember seeing when I was a kid (so it may have since changed, I'm not sure) will split it 33% to each of the three children and 1% split between the 7 grandkids. I don't care if I see any of that money since I already have the inheritance I want. I am the custodian of family documents (pretty much intact) going back nearly 150 years. Civil War pension documents, WW1 enlistment record, wills, property deeds, etc. I doubt there will be any kind of fight between the kids, but if there is it'll be my uncle.
My maternal grandparents do ok but aren't on the same level of wealth as far as I can tell. No clue how they'll do things since their three kids are all well off. I don't think anything will happen there unless there's something with a cousin or two, which I hope won't happen.
As of yet, no issues in my family
DW's family is another matter. I know there's been some stuff that happened between some of her cousins, aunts, and stuff like that over inheritances. I'm not sure of any of the details though beyond the instance where one of her cousins that wanted the insurance money before his mother was even cold. He's an only child so there's no infighting, just greed. If there're any issues in the future, they'll come from her brother's wife (and I think the chances are pretty high of something happening knowing how she is).
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I accidentally stumbled onto this topic and sweet Christmas, what is WRONG with people?
My dad has some money set up (I think he was Mustachian before that was a thing) in trusts and investments and whatnot, but he knows that we give zero fucks about it, so he thinks it's hilarious to constantly tell me and my sister "I'M SPENDING YOUR INHERITANCE!" every time he buys something.
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Just remembered another goodie...
Quicky background: both from poor/uneducated rural families, my grandparents worked themselves like dogs to run a gas station/mechanic shop/dry goods store in their small town, and ended up being very comfortable in their old age. 5 children, one son deceased, one living son (asshole uncle, or AU for short), 3 daughters (one my mom, one lazy/slightly dysfunctional one, and one druggie/alcoholic petty criminal one).
After my grandmother passed, uncle had insisted on reading the will while standing at the gravesite before she was even buried (as per my previous story). It actually took about a week after.
Among other things, there was a large parcel of land - abut 100 acres - that had been in my grandfather's family for at least 3 generations. It was left in my grandmother's will divided by 5 - the 4 living children and the only child of the deceased son (my cousin). It was mostly wooded, used as farmland many years ago, but allowed to return to nature in the past 60 years.
I have fond memories of going out there to cut our Christmas trees with my grandparents and them farming a few acres and helping to pick turnips or corn or the like. And it was really nifty to know we'd eventually get this land with so much history and a part of our family.
AU was always a lying, money-chasing asshole. He did quite well in that he was successful, but was pretty awful to both of his parents and treated his siblings like garbage (granted, one of them was, but there were 2 very successful ones, and one that was just average). He had a reputation for double-dealing and cheating people but staying just on the right side of the law to avoid prosecution. He truly thought he was better than everyone else, and made sure you knew it too.
In any case, AU couldn't stand the idea of what he thought of as his birthright (the land) being divided out among his siblings and forced everyone into putting the land up for auction. It basically was because he refused every attempt to subdivide it or come to any sort of resolution short of him buying everyone out of their share at a pittance. So the parcel went up for auction. He was sure he would be able to swoop in and get all of the family land for nothing.
The auction company advertised it, and the rest of the heirs figured at least if they were to lose the family land, they should get something decent from it, so they were very sad, but resigned. The thing is, in the past 50 or so years, the land had become quite valuable as it was near a lakefront area that had become highly sought after.
AU put on a great show at the auction for many minutes upping his bids to outbid the others that had showed up. But then he was outbid by a developer that intended to put in a premium resort home community. AU didn't have that kind of money, and because he thought he was such hot shit, it never even occurred to him that he might lose it. He forced the sale of the land to try to put one over the rest of the siblings because he was so greedy, and ended up costing all of them something that they should have been able to own and enjoy for many more generations.
I don't think any of the rest of the family has spoken to him since, (he'd done many horrible things over the years) and honestly all of them probably wouldn't spit on him if he was on fire.
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Just remembered another goodie...
Quicky background: both from poor/uneducated rural families, my grandparents worked themselves like dogs to run a gas station/mechanic shop/dry goods store in their small town, and ended up being very comfortable in their old age. 5 children, one son deceased, one living son (asshole uncle, or AU for short), 3 daughters (one my mom, one lazy/slightly dysfunctional one, and one druggie/alcoholic petty criminal one).
After my grandmother passed, uncle had insisted on reading the will while standing at the gravesite before she was even buried (as per my previous story). It actually took about a week after.
Among other things, there was a large parcel of land - abut 100 acres - that had been in my grandfather's family for at least 3 generations. It was left in my grandmother's will divided by 5 - the 4 living children and the only child of the deceased son (my cousin). It was mostly wooded, used as farmland many years ago, but allowed to return to nature in the past 60 years.
I have fond memories of going out there to cut our Christmas trees with my grandparents and them farming a few acres and helping to pick turnips or corn or the like. And it was really nifty to know we'd eventually get this land with so much history and a part of our family.
AU was always a lying, money-chasing asshole. He did quite well in that he was successful, but was pretty awful to both of his parents and treated his siblings like garbage (granted, one of them was, but there were 2 very successful ones, and one that was just average). He had a reputation for double-dealing and cheating people but staying just on the right side of the law to avoid prosecution. He truly thought he was better than everyone else, and made sure you knew it too.
In any case, AU couldn't stand the idea of what he thought of as his birthright (the land) being divided out among his siblings and forced everyone into putting the land up for auction. It basically was because he refused every attempt to subdivide it or come to any sort of resolution short of him buying everyone out of their share at a pittance. So the parcel went up for auction. He was sure he would be able to swoop in and get all of the family land for nothing.
The auction company advertised it, and the rest of the heirs figured at least if they were to lose the family land, they should get something decent from it, so they were very sad, but resigned. The thing is, in the past 50 or so years, the land had become quite valuable as it was near a lakefront area that had become highly sought after.
AU put on a great show at the auction for many minutes upping his bids to outbid the others that had showed up. But then he was outbid by a developer that intended to put in a premium resort home community. AU didn't have that kind of money, and because he thought he was such hot shit, it never even occurred to him that he might lose it. He forced the sale of the land to try to put one over the rest of the siblings because he was so greedy, and ended up costing all of them something that they should have been able to own and enjoy for many more generations.
I don't think any of the rest of the family has spoken to him since, (he'd done many horrible things over the years) and honestly all of them probably wouldn't spit on him if he was on fire.
That's incredibly sad. There's a piece of property that my great grandparents built a homestead on that my father owns now (His grandmother sold it to him). It's a meaningful piece of land, not just for my family, but for the entire extended family descended from the original owner. My father struggles with how to include it in his will to ensure that it stays in the family for a long time to come. There's no chance my brothers or I would ever sell it, but he's more worried about divorces and vindictive ex's and such. My father never talks about wills or inheritance, except in this case as it's so important to him. I'm glad that I trust both of my brothers that something like this would never happen.
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My family today is still involved in a tussle over my great-grandfather's property following his death in the mid-1960s.
Bis-abuelo left his wife and 4 living adult children in NYC to go back to the hillbilly farm in Puerto Rico, found another woman to take care of him, and fathered one last daughter. Said farm was less than 10 acres, and a shack with no running water. All 5 children inherited equally, but because of bad blood between first family and second family, and bad official record-keeping, legal status of property is screwed up beyond belief. Youngest daughter, by virtue of being on the property, managed to replace shack with better but un-permitted house for herself, then second house (also without permits) for her son's family. All original heirs are deceased, so now there are 2nd and 3rd generation heirs. Tax liens from time to time because title was never properly transferred to 1st-generation heirs and notices delivered to property address, although taxes have been mostly paid by the 2nd/3rd heirs living in NY/NJ/CT/FL/HI.
Every few years, the question of what to do with it flares up again. Not an income property, no longer useful as farm, can't sell without agreement of all remaining heirs, and would have to tackle the C of O for the new houses, not to mention any liens, back taxes and re-survey -- all to happen within Puerto Rican bureaucracy. My brother took about 6 months last year speaking with a local lawyer about the survey and getting taxes current again -- but the question of forcing out the descendant living on the property or suing them touched off another round of recriminations ("Mom/Dad/abuela would have wanted us to ...").
So, 50 years later, each heir is fighting over 1/10th share or less, while not having enough money to buy out anyone else's share and repair the legal deficiencies of the property. I suppose they are all waiting for some mythical RE developer to hand them lottery-sized checks while picking up all the expenses, thus justifying the word "inheritance" but since it can't even be torched for profit and none of us are in the meth business, I think that relinquishing it all to the illegitimate grandson who lives on the property without compensation is worth the peace of mind.
My Mom periodically threatens to die just so that I, as her executor and oldest heir, can wade through this muck.
Eventually somebody will stop paying taxes on it and the government will solve the problem for you. I think you have the right idea.
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When my mother (unmarried to my father, and the sole earner since my sister and I were born) tragically died when my sister and I were 16 and 13, and didn't leave 100% of her assets (mostly life insurance from her job) to our father, our father tried to sue me, his high school-aged daughter, for my share (properly recognizing that "caring" for my younger sister was a cash cow he shouldn't slaughter).
Looking back, the reason it started with just threatening vague letters from a lawyer was that he had no leg to stand on, but jesus. and I still talked to him for several years after that! Idiotic.
OMFG
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When my mother (unmarried to my father, and the sole earner since my sister and I were born) tragically died when my sister and I were 16 and 13, and didn't leave 100% of her assets (mostly life insurance from her job) to our father, our father tried to sue me, his high school-aged daughter, for my share (properly recognizing that "caring" for my younger sister was a cash cow he shouldn't slaughter).
Looking back, the reason it started with just threatening vague letters from a lawyer was that he had no leg to stand on, but jesus. and I still talked to him for several years after that! Idiotic.
OMFG
Seriously, you won the shitty family stories competition.
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Seriously, you won the shitty family stories competition.
But I haven't told you about the time he drunk drove my 6 year old sister in to a pole! Winner all around.
Hopefully it's not genetic. I think it's definitely one of the reasons I'm so neurotic careful with money and men.
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My one contribution to this thread is a piece of advice: if you’re writing a will or trust, or giving any advice whatsoever to anyone else who’s doing so, make sure that it is written to exclude anyone whom an heir adopts as an adult.
Hmm. I'm adopting my daughter out of foster care as a teenager, it's very likely that I will adopt more, and since I'm adopting teenagers (as opposed to the more fashionable babies or toddlers) it's probable that one or more will reach the age of majority, "aging out of the system", before the adoption is finalized. That wouldn't make them any less a son or daughter of mine. Now, my parents for a variety of logistics reasons aren't going out of their way to be welcoming or inclusive, but if they were to preemptively disinherit one of my kids for being adopted, or for being adopted after their 18th birthday because of administrative nonsense beyond their control, it would really piss me off.
Good for you! This is a topic I've looked into a bit more lately, and it really makes me sad how many kids age out without any family.
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Posting to follow.
My story has no real drama or conflict, but I'll toss it out there. My mom inherited everything (not much) when my dad died. I am one of the two kids they had. My sibling is about 9 years older than me. The plan was my mom would leave everything (still not much) to the two of us, but eventually got mad enough at my sibling that she removed them from the will. She told me she had done this, likely told sibling too. I wasn't sure she had, or if it was just a threat. I always thought that if it was true, when the time came I would just transfer 50% to my sibling. But, then when my mom finally did get sick one last time, I understood better why my mom had cut sibling out of the will. So, in the end, I followed the will's instructions, and accepted the estate.
BTW - I was the executor too, even for a simple will, it is a PITA! It must be extremely horrid for more complex will's and estates!
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...eventually got mad enough at my sibling that she removed them from the will. She told me she had done this, likely told sibling too. I wasn't sure she had, or if it was just a threat. I always thought that if it was true, when the time came I would just transfer 50% to my sibling.
For anyone who's thinking about doing something like this, remember you can't "just transfer" significant amounts of cash or property to someone--you will be on the hook for taxes on the amount you transfer, unless it's going to a spouse. Your state or country may also have a very short list of other people you can give it to without taxes--my point is, find out what your local law is if you're even remotely considering doing something like this.
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...eventually got mad enough at my sibling that she removed them from the will. She told me she had done this, likely told sibling too. I wasn't sure she had, or if it was just a threat. I always thought that if it was true, when the time came I would just transfer 50% to my sibling.
For anyone who's thinking about doing something like this, remember you can't "just transfer" significant amounts of cash or property to someone--you will be on the hook for taxes on the amount you transfer, unless it's going to a spouse. Your state or country may also have a very short list of other people you can give it to without taxes--my point is, find out what your local law is if you're even remotely considering doing something like this.
IRS state that you can make tax-free gifts up to a certain amount to just about anyone.
"The general rule is that any gift is a taxable gift. However, there are many exceptions to this rule. Generally, the following gifts are not taxable gifts.
Gifts that are not more than the annual exclusion for the calendar year.
Tuition or medical expenses you pay for someone (the educational and medical exclusions).
Gifts to your spouse.
Gifts to a political organization for its use.
The annual exclusion applies to gifts to each donee. In other words, if you give each of your children $11,000 in 2002-2005, $12,000 in 2006-2008, $13,000 in 2009-2012 and $14,000 on or after January 1, 2013, the annual exclusion applies to each gift. The annual exclusion for 2014, 2015, and 2016 is $14,000."
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...eventually got mad enough at my sibling that she removed them from the will. She told me she had done this, likely told sibling too. I wasn't sure she had, or if it was just a threat. I always thought that if it was true, when the time came I would just transfer 50% to my sibling.
For anyone who's thinking about doing something like this, remember you can't "just transfer" significant amounts of cash or property to someone--you will be on the hook for taxes on the amount you transfer, unless it's going to a spouse. Your state or country may also have a very short list of other people you can give it to without taxes--my point is, find out what your local law is if you're even remotely considering doing something like this.
IRS state that you can make tax-free gifts up to a certain amount to just about anyone.
"The general rule is that any gift is a taxable gift. However, there are many exceptions to this rule. Generally, the following gifts are not taxable gifts.
Gifts that are not more than the annual exclusion for the calendar year.
Tuition or medical expenses you pay for someone (the educational and medical exclusions).
Gifts to your spouse.
Gifts to a political organization for its use.
The annual exclusion applies to gifts to each donee. In other words, if you give each of your children $11,000 in 2002-2005, $12,000 in 2006-2008, $13,000 in 2009-2012 and $14,000 on or after January 1, 2013, the annual exclusion applies to each gift. The annual exclusion for 2014, 2015, and 2016 is $14,000."
I had an attorney for probate, since I no longer live in the same county as my mom. I would have asked the attorney's advice. Of course, not everything in an estate is necessarily subject to probate. Why would I be paying taxes when giving something away? I can see the recipient having to pay tax....
I didn't expect or count on anything - I guess I am just glad it didn't cost me a bunch of money.
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Have seen silliness, and maturity in my family's dealings. I've also seen it done "right" and "not right".
The silliness was when my great Aunt passed. She never married. She had 9 siblings, and countless [great [great [great]]] nieces and nephews. Of all of those, only my mom and my siblings really took care of her--my mothers siblings, along with one set of their cousins, were pretty good about helping, but they all live 4-8 hours away. It was mostly mom, and to a lesser extent my brothers and I.
She was overall pretty mustachian, and I know that her estate was well over 7 figures. Her siblings were not all well off. She divided everything very fairly--it was split evenly 9 ways; if that sibling had passed, it was split evenly among their kids--so my mom was one of 5, since her mother had passed she got 20% of 11% of the estate.
Well, great aunt's sister-in-law--who is separated from my great uncle, because she is a kook--has called my mother and her cousin asking for her copy of the will multiple times. It is just silly.
As for the "right way" vs. the "wrong way", my moms mom did it the wrong way--she didn't get rid of anything. They had an auction, estate sale, gave stuff away to their cousins--all the kids took the good stuff that they wanted, but it took a year to get everything done.
My dads parents did it the right way. For about 3 years before my grandma died (in their house) they were giving stuff away, telling their kids (and grandkids) to get whatever they wanted because it needed to go. When they sold their vacation home, the furniture and everything went with it (everyone had the chance to grab whatever they wanted). Grandpa then had an estate sale, moved to assisted living, and when he died we had a couch, buffet, small table, 2 chairs, bed, dresser, and bed side table left. We rented a UHaul and took it to Vincent DePaul (thrift store) and were done with it. Total time was a week.
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...eventually got mad enough at my sibling that she removed them from the will. She told me she had done this, likely told sibling too. I wasn't sure she had, or if it was just a threat. I always thought that if it was true, when the time came I would just transfer 50% to my sibling.
For anyone who's thinking about doing something like this, remember you can't "just transfer" significant amounts of cash or property to someone--you will be on the hook for taxes on the amount you transfer, unless it's going to a spouse. Your state or country may also have a very short list of other people you can give it to without taxes--my point is, find out what your local law is if you're even remotely considering doing something like this.
IRS state that you can make tax-free gifts up to a certain amount to just about anyone.
"The general rule is that any gift is a taxable gift. However, there are many exceptions to this rule. Generally, the following gifts are not taxable gifts.
Gifts that are not more than the annual exclusion for the calendar year.
Tuition or medical expenses you pay for someone (the educational and medical exclusions).
Gifts to your spouse.
Gifts to a political organization for its use.
The annual exclusion applies to gifts to each donee. In other words, if you give each of your children $11,000 in 2002-2005, $12,000 in 2006-2008, $13,000 in 2009-2012 and $14,000 on or after January 1, 2013, the annual exclusion applies to each gift. The annual exclusion for 2014, 2015, and 2016 is $14,000."
I had an attorney for probate, since I no longer live in the same county as my mom. I would have asked the attorney's advice. Of course, not everything in an estate is necessarily subject to probate. Why would I be paying taxes when giving something away? I can see the recipient having to pay tax....
I didn't expect or count on anything - I guess I am just glad it didn't cost me a bunch of money.
Gift tax works like this: You can give a $14k gift to me (or anyone) once per year and not have to report it. You can give me a gift for $100k and you'd only have to report $86k of it to the IRS. Of this $86k you will pay... $0 in tax unless you've exceeded your lifetime limit (somewhere about $5,450,000).
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Friend of ours had a brother, serious ner-do-well, as in regularly vanished for months or a year or two at a time, heavy drug user, etc. When his mother passed away, she left half to each of her children, with the proviso that our friend was supposed to manage the money for his brother, since the brother couldn't be trusted with it, unless the brother "got cleaned up". It wasn't a lot of money, I think a few tens of thousands for each.
The problem with this is that it puts an unending obligation on our friend to try to track down the brother, see what he needs, and how does he even decide if the brother got cleaned up? Its a rather unfair thing to do to someone unless you have discussed it with them before hand (which didn't happen here) and they agree to accept the responsibility. I also have no idea if it is even enforceable?
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...eventually got mad enough at my sibling that she removed them from the will. She told me she had done this, likely told sibling too. I wasn't sure she had, or if it was just a threat. I always thought that if it was true, when the time came I would just transfer 50% to my sibling.
For anyone who's thinking about doing something like this, remember you can't "just transfer" significant amounts of cash or property to someone--you will be on the hook for taxes on the amount you transfer, unless it's going to a spouse. Your state or country may also have a very short list of other people you can give it to without taxes--my point is, find out what your local law is if you're even remotely considering doing something like this.
IRS state that you can make tax-free gifts up to a certain amount to just about anyone.
"The general rule is that any gift is a taxable gift. However, there are many exceptions to this rule. Generally, the following gifts are not taxable gifts.
Gifts that are not more than the annual exclusion for the calendar year.
Tuition or medical expenses you pay for someone (the educational and medical exclusions).
Gifts to your spouse.
Gifts to a political organization for its use.
The annual exclusion applies to gifts to each donee. In other words, if you give each of your children $11,000 in 2002-2005, $12,000 in 2006-2008, $13,000 in 2009-2012 and $14,000 on or after January 1, 2013, the annual exclusion applies to each gift. The annual exclusion for 2014, 2015, and 2016 is $14,000."
I had an attorney for probate, since I no longer live in the same county as my mom. I would have asked the attorney's advice. Of course, not everything in an estate is necessarily subject to probate. Why would I be paying taxes when giving something away? I can see the recipient having to pay tax....
I didn't expect or count on anything - I guess I am just glad it didn't cost me a bunch of money.
Gift tax works like this: You can give a $14k gift to me (or anyone) once per year and not have to report it. You can give me a gift for $100k and you'd only have to report $86k of it to the IRS. Of this $86k you will pay... $0 in tax unless you've exceeded your lifetime limit (somewhere about $5,450,000).
Can you give multiple people $14k gifts?
I don't think so, because I remember my grandparents paying my parents (and dads siblings) mortgages for a couple months to get around the gift tax stuff. Which is odd, because there wouldn't have been any tax on the estate.
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...eventually got mad enough at my sibling that she removed them from the will. She told me she had done this, likely told sibling too. I wasn't sure she had, or if it was just a threat. I always thought that if it was true, when the time came I would just transfer 50% to my sibling.
For anyone who's thinking about doing something like this, remember you can't "just transfer" significant amounts of cash or property to someone--you will be on the hook for taxes on the amount you transfer, unless it's going to a spouse. Your state or country may also have a very short list of other people you can give it to without taxes--my point is, find out what your local law is if you're even remotely considering doing something like this.
IRS state that you can make tax-free gifts up to a certain amount to just about anyone.
"The general rule is that any gift is a taxable gift. However, there are many exceptions to this rule. Generally, the following gifts are not taxable gifts.
Gifts that are not more than the annual exclusion for the calendar year.
Tuition or medical expenses you pay for someone (the educational and medical exclusions).
Gifts to your spouse.
Gifts to a political organization for its use.
The annual exclusion applies to gifts to each donee. In other words, if you give each of your children $11,000 in 2002-2005, $12,000 in 2006-2008, $13,000 in 2009-2012 and $14,000 on or after January 1, 2013, the annual exclusion applies to each gift. The annual exclusion for 2014, 2015, and 2016 is $14,000."
I had an attorney for probate, since I no longer live in the same county as my mom. I would have asked the attorney's advice. Of course, not everything in an estate is necessarily subject to probate. Why would I be paying taxes when giving something away? I can see the recipient having to pay tax....
I didn't expect or count on anything - I guess I am just glad it didn't cost me a bunch of money.
Gift tax works like this: You can give a $14k gift to me (or anyone) once per year and not have to report it. You can give me a gift for $100k and you'd only have to report $86k of it to the IRS. Of this $86k you will pay... $0 in tax unless you've exceeded your lifetime limit (somewhere about $5,450,000).
Can you give multiple people $14k gifts?
I don't think so, because I remember my grandparents paying my parents (and dads siblings) mortgages for a couple months to get around the gift tax stuff. Which is odd, because there wouldn't have been any tax on the estate.
You can give as many people as you want $14k gifts. None of them will need to be recorded with the IRS. Let's say your parents wanted to give you and your spouse $14k gifts. You could receive one from each of your parents and your spouse would as well, for a total of $52k that doesn't need to be reported. The lifetime gift exclusion is the same exclusion that is used for estates, since inheritances are treated as gifts! That's why you'd need an estate above $5,450,00 + # of recipients * $14k to pay any tax at all ;). In mustachian world, we call that 'a fuck ton' of money.
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I'm not going into the whole drama, but my husband's grandmother specified that everything be split 50/50 between the two daughters. The only problem is that there were assets that there was no way could be split 50/50, in particular a piece of family land that had a cabin that the grandfather had built. But the grandmother just kept with, everything, 50/50. One daughter was sentimentally attached to the land and wanted to keep it in the family, the other wanted to either buy out the land/cabin at a discounted rate, or sell it and split the money 50/50.
Protip: If it's just between two people, there is an optimal way to split things 50/50. First note that selling the property and splitting the proceeds DOES benefit both parties equally; however something feels "wrong" with this approach since one was more attached to it than the other. And it might not be optimal if the property were, e.g., worth $70k to her, but she only received $50k as her share of the sale.
The best way to do it is to have each daughter make a silent bid (they could simultaneously exchange slips of paper on which they wrote their bid amount) to decide the winner. Then the winner gets to have the property, and gives some cash to the loser. With numbers, this might work as
A bids $70k
B bids $60k.
Then A gets the property, and sends $70k/2 = 35k to B. In the end, A feels like she received $35k and B feels like she received $35k, and neither "envies" the other's position.
I agree with everything up until the amount of the check...I'd have it be for $30K, then A feels like she bought a $35K property for only $30K, and B should have accurately reported what sHe thought the property was really worth and ought not to complain.
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Friend of ours had a brother, serious ner-do-well, as in regularly vanished for months or a year or two at a time, heavy drug user, etc. When his mother passed away, she left half to each of her children, with the proviso that our friend was supposed to manage the money for his brother, since the brother couldn't be trusted with it, unless the brother "got cleaned up". It wasn't a lot of money, I think a few tens of thousands for each.
The problem with this is that it puts an unending obligation on our friend to try to track down the brother, see what he needs, and how does he even decide if the brother got cleaned up? Its a rather unfair thing to do to someone unless you have discussed it with them before hand (which didn't happen here) and they agree to accept the responsibility. I also have no idea if it is even enforceable?
That's the obligation my parents are trying to put onto me: acting as a trustee for my brother's portion and taking over their lifelong role of babysitter for an abusive, alcoholic jerk who has physically assaulted me several times and made a credible e-mail threat to shoot me. My parents are classic enablers and don't consider this to be a problem.
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Friend of ours had a brother, serious ner-do-well, as in regularly vanished for months or a year or two at a time, heavy drug user, etc. When his mother passed away, she left half to each of her children, with the proviso that our friend was supposed to manage the money for his brother, since the brother couldn't be trusted with it, unless the brother "got cleaned up". It wasn't a lot of money, I think a few tens of thousands for each.
The problem with this is that it puts an unending obligation on our friend to try to track down the brother, see what he needs, and how does he even decide if the brother got cleaned up? Its a rather unfair thing to do to someone unless you have discussed it with them before hand (which didn't happen here) and they agree to accept the responsibility. I also have no idea if it is even enforceable?
That's the obligation my parents are trying to put onto me: acting as a trustee for my brother's portion and taking over their lifelong role of babysitter for an abusive, alcoholic jerk who has physically assaulted me several times and made a credible e-mail threat to shoot me. My parents are classic enablers and don't consider this to be a problem.
I thought wills that set up trusts like this were supposed to have contingent trustees - in case first choice is unwilling or unable. I seriously doubt you'd have to serve as trustee if you don't want to.
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That's the obligation my parents are trying to put onto me: acting as a trustee for my brother's portion and taking over their lifelong role of babysitter for an abusive, alcoholic jerk who has physically assaulted me several times and made a credible e-mail threat to shoot me. My parents are classic enablers and don't consider this to be a problem.
So say no.
You're not obligated to trustee their estate for them. Tell them you'll give him his portion up front and be done, or give him nothing ever, or they can find someone else to do it.
If they want a trustee to enforce conditions, every law firm will happily assume that duty for the right price. You shouldn't be expected to do it for free.
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That's the obligation my parents are trying to put onto me: acting as a trustee for my brother's portion and taking over their lifelong role of babysitter for an abusive, alcoholic jerk who has physically assaulted me several times and made a credible e-mail threat to shoot me. My parents are classic enablers and don't consider this to be a problem.
So say no.
You're not obligated to trustee their estate for them. Tell them you'll give him his portion up front and be done, or give him nothing ever, or they can find someone else to do it.
If they want a trustee to enforce conditions, every law firm will happily assume that duty for the right price. You shouldn't be expected to do it for free.
I've said no, however I obviously can't control what other people put in their will. The fact I live in a different country will make it impossible to carry out the instructions even if I were willing. They don't seem to understand the difference between an executor and a trust administrator. I'm willing to be the executor if it's absolutely necessary (and would prefer that they pay somebody else to do it because of the logistics problem), but ongoing administration is out of the question.
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That's the obligation my parents are trying to put onto me: acting as a trustee for my brother's portion and taking over their lifelong role of babysitter for an abusive, alcoholic jerk who has physically assaulted me several times and made a credible e-mail threat to shoot me. My parents are classic enablers and don't consider this to be a problem.
So say no.
You're not obligated to trustee their estate for them. Tell them you'll give him his portion up front and be done, or give him nothing ever, or they can find someone else to do it.
If they want a trustee to enforce conditions, every law firm will happily assume that duty for the right price. You shouldn't be expected to do it for free.
I've said no, however I obviously can't control what other people put in their will. The fact I live in a different country will make it impossible to carry out the instructions even if I were willing. They don't seem to understand the difference between an executor and a trust administrator. I'm willing to be the executor if it's absolutely necessary (and would prefer that they pay somebody else to do it because of the logistics problem), but ongoing administration is out of the question.
Even if they insist on naming you as the trustee, you can still say no. If you are the executor, then you can probably name someone else like the estate lawyer to be the trustee (or at least ask them what to do since you're not going to do it) and whomever is appointed will also be able to charge an admin fee to do so against the brother's trust. But you definitely do not have to do it if you don't want to.
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Last year my aunt died. I was close to her growing up as we lived in the same city and because she was single my dad (her brother) did a lot of things for her. She was a bit of trust funder, and though she wasn't exactly mustachian she also wasn't wild. She left my aunt, uncle, my sister, brother, me and another cousin a couple hundred thousand each. It was quite a great surprise. I didn't expect anything at all.
The problem wasn't with family in this scenario. It was her lawyer. A couple weeks prior to her death she changed her will to give a couple hundred thousand to a charity that the lawyer was involved with and no one knew she had any interest in. The lawyer was also appointed the person to take care of the estate. He was the one who had to sell the stocks, the house, etc. The lawyer could charge each hour for this and wound up billing the estate at least 200K. It sounded all super shady, but in my mind what can you really do other than throw money at more lawyers.
Well, that's what my other aunt, her sister, decided to do. She hired a lawyer to take this other lawyer to court. I didn't want to spend money on this. My aunt probably wound up spending at least 30K on her lawyer, or more. There were several hearings, lots of billable hours for lawyers etc. The judgement came.
Nada. The judge ruled that the lawyer was within his rights to do all this. My aunt spent tons of money that she actually could use as she's not wealthy and as far as I know has very little to live on. In addition, the judge ruled the lawyer could then charge the estate an additional 40K for the hours needed to defend himself. In the end I wound up having to pay for part of this case anyhow because that 40K came from the entire estate.
Lesson learned - lawyers are expensive.
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General observation from practicing law in a small town for almost a decade: A very high proportion of elderly couples who don't have children are wealthy.
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General observation from practicing law in a small town for almost a decade: A very high proportion of elderly couples who don't have children are wealthy.
Slight modification: a very high proportion of elderly couples with no children (who retire to small towns and can afford lawyers) are wealthy.
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General observation from practicing law in a small town for almost a decade: A very high proportion of elderly couples who don't have children are wealthy.
Slight modification: a very high proportion of elderly couples with no children (who retire to small towns and can afford lawyers) are wealthy.
LOL
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No inheritance story yet, per se. However, I suspect there will be when the time comes.
Back story: My maternal grandparents were very Mustachian, due to my Grand Father's (GF) sense of reason. He passed 11 years ago. My Grandmother is getting up in age, and keeps her son (my mother's brother) on adult welfare. To the tune of 10's of k per year. I've tried to talk to her about it, but whatever. It's her money. Now because G'ma is getting up in age, she's starting to get a little dementia. She's said some things that have made me say "what in the world are you talking about?" One of the things she has told me is that uncle told her he should have gotten half of my GF's money when he passed. I don't know if that was the dementia talking or not, but I would easily believe him saying something like that.
My Grandmother has made me executor of her will, and manager of my mother's trust (she has a mental illness and due to medicaid restrictions, cannot have many assets in order to qualify for help on her very expensive medicine). I was at one point manager of the trust set up for uncle. I told my grandmother that if she does that, I will immediately sign over his money to him anyway, since I knew that I would get harassed until I did. Grandmother changed the will. I have no idea what is happening with his money after she passes, although as executor, I know I'll find out when the time comes.
tl;dr: GF passed, partial-dementia grandma has son (my uncle) on adult life support, claims uncle wanted half of his father's money when he passed. I refused to be manager of uncle's trust, because I know he'd harass me until he got his money.
*edited for clarity.
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I don't expect there to be too much in the way of inheritance drama with my family- there was the potential for it though but I think that is mostly defused now.
My maternal grandparents had two children: my Mom and her brother (my Uncle, of course). Uncle came back from Vietnam pretty messed up (was arrested upon entering the country for bringing in drugs) and spent pretty much his entire adult life being at least in some way supported by his parents. My Mom has led a fairly good life and done her best to never take anything from my Grandparents except in the form of loans despite their best efforts to give she and my Dad money over the years (because of how much they've given my Uncle). I learned a ways back though that my (now late, quite unfortunately) Grandfather was ridiculously meticulous with money before his Alzheimers got bad and that he had kept track of everything that he had ever given my Uncle (and my Mom, but that came largely to zero)- and that he and my Grandmother's wills were written such that the remaining assets when both had died would be split evenly- and then amount given to my Uncle over the years would subtracted from his share of the inheritance (having effectively already received it) and given to my Mom. Both my Mom and Uncle were informed of this, and until recently I figured it would be a source of acrimony between my family and my Uncle.
However in recent years he finally (somewhat...) pulled his life together and has been living without their support (somewhat ironically due to his finally being given a full disability by the VA). There's also the matter that my Grandmother is now living in an assisted-living facility- and hopefully she will live long enough there for there to be very little left of the would-be inheritance to be of concern.
SWMBO's family though... THAT will probably be something of a train wreck on multiple levels...
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Wow. Glad to know I'm not the only one with a trainwreck on my hands, and so many similarities! My parents are challenging folks to say the least, over the years, threats to take us out of the will for not following their rules was fairly common, and they also had lots of problems dealing with their families, starting raging wars over the slightest of grievances. It got so bad that as a teen, I was working at a retail store, and I walked up to a customer and asked if she needed help. Something in her voice triggered a memory, and while she browsed, I mentioned this to my co-workers, who were well versed in my family's craziness. Long story short, it was my aunt. Family dis-owning drama yielded an aunt and a niece who didn't even know they were speaking to family.
Oh, and my Mom, her name actually IS Grace, and she almost got kicked out of a nursing home for dislocating a fellow resident's finger. See? Lots of similarities!
So Dad passed away weeks after I got married, and shortly thereafter we began to notice that he was hiding a secret from us, Mom was suffering from dementia. Still is actually, nearly 15 years later. My parents were fairly frugal, and they managed to amass an estate worth roughly 1 million at my Dad's passing. Some of that wealth disappeared as a result of the housing bubble, some as my Mom decided to enjoy life after his death with a shopping habit. Whatever, her money. What neither of them bothered to do was prepare for their eventual demise, so other than a basic will, nothing else was done.
My sibling shares many of the same negative traits my mother possesses, and has never fully grown up. To this day, she still lives in the illegal apartment my dad created in the basement of their home. My Mom has been living in a nursing home near me for the past 5 years, halfway across the country from this home. We had moved away 6 months earlier, and during that time, my sibling neglected my mom so badly that adult protective services was called in. She was thrilled to pieces when we agreed to bring her closer to us, so much so that she neglected to visit for the next three years. She also didn't care to handle my Mom's finances, so I took care of it all, through a joint checking account which we all had access to. Unfortunately, what I was not aware of at that time was that the sibling found a shady lawyer, and used $15K of my parents money to pay for said lawyer. The lawyer placed my Mom's cash into a trust. A revocable trust, in my siblings name. I was shocked when a few years ago, she ran low on cash and revoked the trust, profiting to the tune of 130K. My Mom's care was being covered by renting out the main portion of her home, and my sibling decided to leave Mom high and dry, and began taking that income as well. Oh, and the icing on that shitty cake was when the sibling befriended a crappy lawyer, who proceeded to call me at work and forbid me from contacting my sibling. I laughed and warned him that my sibling would neither sleep with him, nor pay him for his legal services, which he quickly figured out on his own. He sent a FedEx to my home a few weeks later, demanding an accounting of my Mom's finances for the past few years (hello, your client has access to the bank acct, it's all there!), which he didn't even send signature required, so there is no proof I ever received this demand, and nothing further came of it once he figured out my sibling is a professional mooch.
I took what little cash was left in the overflow savings account and pre-paid my Mom's final expenses, and handed the rest over to the nursing home administrator, as a cushion should my sibling continue to steal my Mom's rental income. These were not fun times, made worse when the funeral director called me, b/c my sibling was hounding him, demanding a refund of the money I sent him, b/c she was crying poverty. I was at a mental breaking point, so hubby stepped in and set the funeral director straight. He was welcome to refund the money to me, since I signed the contract and the check, and we would take the money to another funeral home. That solved that problem. Then the nursing home administrator (more like a small group home) contacted my sibling and explained that she would be returning my mother to her rightful home in her RV, unless the payments continue. Of course we were never going to make good on that threat, but we knew my sibling didn't want any responsibility of my Mom, so she has been covering the cost out of my Mom's rental income. What she has done with the trust money, don't know and don't care.
Of course, this is far from being a done deal. My sibling is an entitled anti-mustachian, who has never been responsible for herself, and enjoys consumerism. We haven't spoken in years, and the only asset left is the family home, which is owned jointly by the both of us, but with survivorship rights for my Mom. So the asset can not be touched until she passes. Every so often I check the title and tax records on the home, to make sure she is at least covering the taxes, and that the title hasn't somehow changed hands without my signature. I have no doubt that if she could find a way to do that, she would in a heartbeat.
I can only imagine how my mom's final services will be, and the fight that will occur over the home at her passing. My goal is to simply ignore her during the wake and funeral, and hire a lawyer to handle the sale of the house, which I have no doubt she will fight. Hubby thinks he can talk some sense into her, and advise her that it is best to complete this transaction as amicably as possible and go our separate ways, but I'm sure it won't be that simple.
It's a very sad way to terminate a family, as neither of us have procreated, and a rather ironic one at that. We continued the same cycle of drama that my parents taught us w/regards to family our entire lives. At the end of the day, if I get anything, great, it will speed up my FIRE date by about a year. And I will have the satisfaction of knowing that a part of my parents sacrifices will not go to waste. If I don't get anything, it won't impact my life much, but I know that my sibling will blow it all and be back to nothing in minimal time. I hope it was worth it - seems like a really small amount of money to burn the bridge of the only family member who always looked the other way and helped her out when she was in trouble. In the end though, my parents are ultimately responsible. They were well aware of the evil and irresponsibility lurking in my sibling, and they chose not to do anything to protect themselves, or us, from dealing with this inevitable drama. Hubby & I have already taken care of our final wishes, even down to the care of our pets, because we do not want to leave this type of mess behind to anyone else!
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My husband's grandfather was apparently quite the ladies man. My father in law (deceased) is his only child from his first wife (two kids - DH and his sister), there are two daughters and a grandson from the second wife, and the third wife had no children, but married him less than a year before he passed away. They both knew he was terminally ill when they got married, so nobody was exactly surprised that she was taken care of in his will.
He was also rich (possibly part of his appeal with the ladies?), and left his money in trust for his children and their offspring. The two catches are: they have to be 30 before the trust pays out, and the trust couldn't be disbursed until the third wife passed away, because she got to take her income from the trust.
Thirty odd years later, third wife FINALLY passes away. The whole time I've been part of this family, second wife's daughters have been bad mouthing their step mother because she gets ALL of this money and they've been waiting for soooooo long (they're in their 60s now). Realistically, disbursement of the trust will be amazingly helpful, because the grandson from wife two (he's 42) is a quadriplegic on medicare, and my husband and I have been covering the costs for his legal assistance (~$1200/mo) finding better home care, getting rid of bed bugs in his sketchy apartment, etc, and being reimbursed by the trust. The reimbursement isn't possible now since the money is being disbursed eventually, and having a special needs trust for him would be a life and sanity saver. His mom is also on govt assistance because she's legally unable to manage her own finances due to mental issues.
The other sister is ruining everything, though. She emailed the whole trust committee and the siblings of third wife within a day of finding out about her death asking when things will be resolved, how much they'll all be getting, and whether or not they can have all the "pre-third wife family memorabilia" that she was never given before. I don't care if she wants memorabilia, that makes sense, but she is being so pushy and rude that the executor of the will and all of the trust lawyers have stopped talking to any of us. DH and I won't get anything yet because he is only 28, and it will just go into savings anyway, but she is ruining her nephew's chance to get into a stable, clean living situation, and it sucks so stinking bad. We honestly can't afford to keep paying his bills by ourselves, and we are the best off of all the family financially, so he is just going to be sink further and further into a decaying apartment and bad medical care.
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General observation from practicing law in a small town for almost a decade: A very high proportion of elderly couples who don't have children are wealthy.
Slight modification: a very high proportion of elderly couples with no children (who retire to small towns and can afford lawyers) are wealthy.
LOL... The ones who didn't have much came in to write wills, too. I think we charged $50 or $75 for a simple will for a single person. Wrote a will for an old Harley (condition unknown, but probably not worth much) to go to a grandkid who was underage at the time, to be held in trust until they turned 18. A terrible idea (and I asked questions which implied it was a terrible idea), but ultimately not my decision.
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Friend of ours had a brother, serious ner-do-well, as in regularly vanished for months or a year or two at a time, heavy drug user, etc. When his mother passed away, she left half to each of her children, with the proviso that our friend was supposed to manage the money for his brother, since the brother couldn't be trusted with it, unless the brother "got cleaned up". It wasn't a lot of money, I think a few tens of thousands for each.
The problem with this is that it puts an unending obligation on our friend to try to track down the brother, see what he needs, and how does he even decide if the brother got cleaned up? Its a rather unfair thing to do to someone unless you have discussed it with them before hand (which didn't happen here) and they agree to accept the responsibility. I also have no idea if it is even enforceable?
That's the obligation my parents are trying to put onto me: acting as a trustee for my brother's portion and taking over their lifelong role of babysitter for an abusive, alcoholic jerk who has physically assaulted me several times and made a credible e-mail threat to shoot me. My parents are classic enablers and don't consider this to be a problem.
I thought wills that set up trusts like this were supposed to have contingent trustees - in case first choice is unwilling or unable. I seriously doubt you'd have to serve as trustee if you don't want to.
You do not have to get trapped in this mess. I posted my own personal, and long story, earlier on this thread. My mother was very clear in repeatedly claiming that she expected me to continue the "family tradition" of being an enabler, provider and manager of the mess my sister had become. On every occasion I firmly told her to make other plans, as there was no way in hell it was going to happen. She ignored me, and spell out her wishes, in detail, in her will. She even went as far a switching estate lawyers, since ours is a family friend who would of refused to allow such delusional nonsense to be entered into a will.
My Mother was a classic enabler, and completely self-deluded regarding my sister. Shortly before her death, she found a trust that had created an airtight way to protect assets willed to severely disabled children. My mother then misrepresented my sister's situation, and gained verbal assurance from the trust that they would take the money and provide social services and carefully directed distributions to keep everything legal. When my mom passed, our lawyer contacted the trust, gave then a very honest account of the potential client, and they flipped out. They stated that they did not agree to taking my sister unconditionally, and they had no prior knowledge of the substance abuse, DUI manslaughter, subsequent DUI, multiple rehabs, etc....Their mission was to do things like keeping Medicaid from claiming the assets, while they spent the money on things like additional rehab services, or other quality of life improvements for severely disabled or retarded adults, not getting involved in this enabling addicts with felony convictions. Eventually, after artful persuasion from our lawyer, and a carefully worded agreement, they took the case.
During that negotiation, I was obviously concerned that I might be trapped into managing my sisters affairs, but our lawyer was quite clear that I could still be the executor, and still divide the assets relatively quickly and easily, while removing that provision of the will. In the event that the trust would of refused to take my sister as a client, I would have to appear before the probate judge to seek relief from being the trustee. At that point, the judge would assign a local lawyer to the position, and that lawyer would be paid a reasonable, and ongoing fee to distribute the assets per the will and judges ruling.
Hopefully you can make your parents understand that you are NOT willing to accept the responsibility of being your brother's babysitter. Take the time to make it clear that you do not have to comply with any unreasonable directive of the will, and that the courts have a mechanism to place the unreasonable burden on a third party, if they insist on putting that nonsense in the will. Good luck, having abusive worthless siblings and enabling parents is a nasty combination. I hope it all works out for you.
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My family today is still involved in a tussle over my great-grandfather's property following his death in the mid-1960s.
Bis-abuelo left his wife and 4 living adult children in NYC to go back to the hillbilly farm in Puerto Rico, found another woman to take care of him, and fathered one last daughter. Said farm was less than 10 acres, and a shack with no running water. All 5 children inherited equally, but because of bad blood between first family and second family, and bad official record-keeping, legal status of property is screwed up beyond belief. Youngest daughter, by virtue of being on the property, managed to replace shack with better but un-permitted house for herself, then second house (also without permits) for her son's family. All original heirs are deceased, so now there are 2nd and 3rd generation heirs. Tax liens from time to time because title was never properly transferred to 1st-generation heirs and notices delivered to property address, although taxes have been mostly paid by the 2nd/3rd heirs living in NY/NJ/CT/FL/HI.
Every few years, the question of what to do with it flares up again. Not an income property, no longer useful as farm, can't sell without agreement of all remaining heirs, and would have to tackle the C of O for the new houses, not to mention any liens, back taxes and re-survey -- all to happen within Puerto Rican bureaucracy. My brother took about 6 months last year speaking with a local lawyer about the survey and getting taxes current again -- but the question of forcing out the descendant living on the property or suing them touched off another round of recriminations ("Mom/Dad/abuela would have wanted us to ...").
So, 50 years later, each heir is fighting over 1/10th share or less, while not having enough money to buy out anyone else's share and repair the legal deficiencies of the property. I suppose they are all waiting for some mythical RE developer to hand them lottery-sized checks while picking up all the expenses, thus justifying the word "inheritance" but since it can't even be torched for profit and none of us are in the meth business, I think that relinquishing it all to the illegitimate grandson who lives on the property without compensation is worth the peace of mind.
My Mom periodically threatens to die just so that I, as her executor and oldest heir, can wade through this muck.
This is a situation to GTFO. Tell all the relatives that you'll be happy to sell your(her) share. Either pick a number ($5k) or tell them whoever offers the most gets it.
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So, onto my own family and my likely upcoming story.
When my maternal grandmother passed (my grandfather having passed 30 years prior): my uncle was the executor, showed all the records to my mom and everything was well documented and split 50/50. Grandma was in care, so all the furniture and such had long ago been divided up and he house sold. Proceeds went toward care.
My paternal grandfather died perhaps 5 years before my grandmother. My aunt made all sorts of shady deals (joint vacation home, grandma paying for all expenses for all sorts of things, and I know grandma paid for at least half the vacation home) - but did spend a lot of time with grandma. When grandma finally died, aunt is the executor. My dad never gets to see the actual will. Somehow the vacation home was 100% my aunt's, my aunt claims or tosses every physical object and file. All the genealogy tossed. Birth certificates, marriage license, etc. My dad is given a small sum from the estate but doesn't fight it. Aunt has a pattern of buying an expensive house, remodeling it in stupid ways (replace perfect carpet with different carpet. Replace new granite counter tops with different granite counter tops, still isn't happy and sells it. Repeat about every 2 years.
Lucky me, I'm the executor for my parents. Ugh. My sister has her shit together, my brother is a crazy, lying, abusive addict - alcohol, prescription pills, brief jail stays til he and his lawyer bullshit his way out, etc. Can be incredibly convincingly nice when he wants to. Has "borrowed" a shit ton of money from my parents. I've been told repeatedly it's supposed to come out of "his share" of the inheritance and where the listing of debts is. Which I have no doubt will cause a firestorm and lawsuit against the estate.
Thankfully, my parents have now changed all the accounts to payable-on-death to just my sister and I. Bypassing the will entirely. We're both on the safe deposit box too. About the only thing left of real value for the will is the house and personal effects - mounds and mounds of personal effects. I'm going to have to get several big commercial dumpsters dropped off for emptying out that house.... At least it's clean and the public areas are quite nice. Just don't open the door into the back room in the basement. Or go in the den. Or my dad's "walk in" closet. Newspapers, magazines, books, 50 slide carousels...
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This was a long time ago - sometime in the 60s. When my maternal grandmother died, there were 4 adult sibs including my mother who were equal inheritors. While 3 of them were at the funeral, the fourth, my aunt, cleaned out the house of anything of value including a player piano. I'm sure there were many items of greater value, but this is the one that always came up as the biggest outrage.
This caused a rift of about 20 years. Then somehow there was a reconciliation and my mother sent me out to visit that aunt in Minnesota. There was the player piano in her summer house.
Wow that is pretty sick.
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I have a sibling that is super angry with the world all the time(27 and doesn't have a job but has two expensive degrees) and enabler parents. My dad keeps saying he'll split everything fairly in the will but hasn't written anything yet. I don't care if he never leaves me a cent (its all their money) but I just wish he writes the damn will down..... Just to avoid all kinds of drama with my sibling and other cousins. Reading these stories makes me anxious about future drama.
Also husband is of the idea that writing wills is tempting fate and wouldn't write his. I've written mine but not sure what will happen in case we need his (his is a bit complex situation). I'm tired of reasoning it out with him. How do you convince spouses to get their things in order?
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The only story in my own family is my grandmother who adjusted her will to pay back debts to other family members that one of her son's owed. Unfortunately he hadn't been completely honest with her about how much he owed my parents and as such their debt wasn't written into the will at all, not that there would have been enough money to cover it. This of course caused tensions between everyone involved. I think my parents' had been ok with the idea that it might never be paid back, up until they learned that everyone else had been repaid. More than being about money, it brought to the surface a whole lot of lies and deceptions that had been going on.
They've written the debt over to me and my siblings now (to be paid from my uncles estate) which seems to have been quite healing for them. I don't believe that we will ever be able to recover the money but as my siblings and I are not emotionally involved in the dispute, we are ok with that.
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Also husband is of the idea that writing wills is tempting fate and wouldn't write his. I've written mine but not sure what will happen in case we need his (his is a bit complex situation). I'm tired of reasoning it out with him. How do you convince spouses to get their things in order?
I'm of the view we will die regardless of whether we have a will or not. Nobody is immortal. I see it as a gift of love to have a will. Dying without a will leaves loved ones with extra stress and heartbreak.
My DH originally went pale whenever I first mentioned wills (it was all about the thought of me dying). He eventually became comfortable with the idea after I kept gently talking about it for a few years.
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Friend of ours had a brother, serious ner-do-well, as in regularly vanished for months or a year or two at a time, heavy drug user, etc. When his mother passed away, she left half to each of her children, with the proviso that our friend was supposed to manage the money for his brother, since the brother couldn't be trusted with it, unless the brother "got cleaned up". It wasn't a lot of money, I think a few tens of thousands for each.
The problem with this is that it puts an unending obligation on our friend to try to track down the brother, see what he needs, and how does he even decide if the brother got cleaned up? Its a rather unfair thing to do to someone unless you have discussed it with them before hand (which didn't happen here) and they agree to accept the responsibility. I also have no idea if it is even enforceable?
That's the obligation my parents are trying to put onto me: acting as a trustee for my brother's portion and taking over their lifelong role of babysitter for an abusive, alcoholic jerk who has physically assaulted me several times and made a credible e-mail threat to shoot me. My parents are classic enablers and don't consider this to be a problem.
Mil tried this on H (for his loser sister). He told her that if she put the money in a trust for her with specific rules like disbursement guidelines, etc, he could manage it. But he wasn't just going to babysit her. Naturally doing a trust was too much work/money so the whole thing was dropped.
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Friend of ours had a brother, serious ner-do-well, as in regularly vanished for months or a year or two at a time, heavy drug user, etc. When his mother passed away, she left half to each of her children, with the proviso that our friend was supposed to manage the money for his brother, since the brother couldn't be trusted with it, unless the brother "got cleaned up". It wasn't a lot of money, I think a few tens of thousands for each.
The problem with this is that it puts an unending obligation on our friend to try to track down the brother, see what he needs, and how does he even decide if the brother got cleaned up? Its a rather unfair thing to do to someone unless you have discussed it with them before hand (which didn't happen here) and they agree to accept the responsibility. I also have no idea if it is even enforceable?
That's the obligation my parents are trying to put onto me: acting as a trustee for my brother's portion and taking over their lifelong role of babysitter for an abusive, alcoholic jerk who has physically assaulted me several times and made a credible e-mail threat to shoot me. My parents are classic enablers and don't consider this to be a problem.
It is enforceable if it's drafted right (put the money in a trust, make one sibling trustee for the other). I agree, having seen it in my family, that's it's a terrible job for the trustee sibling to have--all the more so because the will & trust almost never specifies that they should get paid anything for the work!
My advice: if you need to put money in trust for one child, appoint a financial institution as the trustee. Yes, it costs money, but it makes life so much easier for the other siblings.
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Also husband is of the idea that writing wills is tempting fate and wouldn't write his. I've written mine but not sure what will happen in case we need his (his is a bit complex situation). I'm tired of reasoning it out with him. How do you convince spouses to get their things in order?
Would it help to point out that he has a will already? It is whatever his state/province says happens to his estate when he dies intestate. If he is happy with the standard provisions, and OK with some judicially appointed executor, fine. If not, he needs to change his will (i.e. replace the state's provisions with his own) and executor to reflect his wishes.
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it's a terrible job for the trustee sibling to have--all the more so because the will & trust almost never specifies that they should get paid anything for the work!
If we die before our children are 18, our assets go to a trust for their care. Our will specifies who will care for the kids, and it certainly spells out "all reasonable" expenses to the trustee for the trouble of taking them in.
The common problem with trust documents seems to be the exact opposite of what you've identified. It's not that trustees get saddled with work and no pay for it, it's that trustees get to drain too much of the trust funds for themselves because the definition of "reasonable and appropriate" expenses for the trustee is so easy to manipulate.
In cases where the trustee is the beneficiary, that's not a problem. But in the case of a trust like ours that is set up to care for our kids, I'm pretty confident the trustee/godparent is going to immediately spend down our assets on a fancy car and a new home and justify it as "necessary" because now she has these extra kids. If my wife and I both die, I'm sure my kids will live in a very fancy house for the next few years and then be penniless and on their own at age 18.
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If my wife and I both die, I'm sure my kids will live in a very fancy house for the next few years and then be penniless and on their own at age 18.
You need better friends!
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This just happened to friends of mine. Elderly father decided to remarry about a year after being widowed. They both had grown children. They drew up wills and did a prenup. So all the children were okay with it. They were married about three years when he passed away. Big surprise. He had cancelled the prenup and redid the will between the time of the marriage and his death. She was getting everything. The children threatened to sue based on the fact that he had been diagnosed with some level of dementia around the time that all this happened. So his children are getting something, but not nearly what they had expected. Most of the money has been hidden away and the rest tied up in a new house they bought two months before he died. She knew what she was doing.
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When my dad's mom slipped and fell into a coma in the old country, my dad immediately booked a ticket and flew over. Before flying out, he tried to get in contact with his sister who lived an hour away from us. She went completely AWOL. My dad even called the local police 'cause he was worried she was missing for some awful reason. Nope, she disappeared by choice and only showed up at the hospital weeks later after she 'finally checked her messages' and found out that the plug was going to be pulled. I wasn't told the specifics but arguments regarding the inheritance ensured and my dad was so pissed that he gladly gave up all his inheritance in exchange for eternal peace and quiet from his sister (they have a complicated history). My mom was so happy :)
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Also husband is of the idea that writing wills is tempting fate and wouldn't write his. I've written mine but not sure what will happen in case we need his (his is a bit complex situation). I'm tired of reasoning it out with him. How do you convince spouses to get their things in order?
Would it help to point out that he has a will already? It is whatever his state/province says happens to his estate when he dies intestate. If he is happy with the standard provisions, and OK with some judicially appointed executor, fine. If not, he needs to change his will (i.e. replace the state's provisions with his own) and executor to reflect his wishes.
Ask your husband why he spends money on insurance if being prepared is just "tempting fate."
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If my wife and I both die, I'm sure my kids will live in a very fancy house for the next few years and then be penniless and on their own at age 18.
You need better friends!
In our will, our kids go to DW's sibling and the trustee is my sibling. When we told DW's sibling and spouse about the trustee, they were upset. Then I said that between net worth and life insurance our estate would be well into seven figures, and we felt that having extra eyes on it would be reasonable. We also put very few restrictions on the trustee, so between them they could figure out if a bigger house and bigger car made sense to buy with out estate. There is risk, of course, but if they work together as a team, it should be okay. And they are all gainfully employed, which is a plus.
If the will ever gets used for this, I'll try to post something here, but I can't promise anything....
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it's a terrible job for the trustee sibling to have--all the more so because the will & trust almost never specifies that they should get paid anything for the work!
If we die before our children are 18, our assets go to a trust for their care. Our will specifies who will care for the kids, and it certainly spells out "all reasonable" expenses to the trustee for the trouble of taking them in.
The common problem with trust documents seems to be the exact opposite of what you've identified. It's not that trustees get saddled with work and no pay for it, it's that trustees get to drain too much of the trust funds for themselves because the definition of "reasonable and appropriate" expenses for the trustee is so easy to manipulate.
In cases where the trustee is the beneficiary, that's not a problem. But in the case of a trust like ours that is set up to care for our kids, I'm pretty confident the trustee/godparent is going to immediately spend down our assets on a fancy car and a new home and justify it as "necessary" because now she has these extra kids. If my wife and I both die, I'm sure my kids will live in a very fancy house for the next few years and then be penniless and on their own at age 18.
In scenarios like this, one way to address it is to separate the guardian of the minors to the trustee of the trust. In my case I chose guardians that I feel will be better suited to take care of my children emotionally and choose a trustee that aligns more with my financial values. I trust both unconditionally also which helps me sleep better at night.
This might create a little tension separating the guardians and the trustee but I feel that having two parties involves helps keep accountability.
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That was our situation.
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This thread is glorious. I hope there will be more posts soon.
I don't have any juicy inheritance stories. My Mom Mom (grandmother) passed December '14 and left money and items to her 3 children and 2 grandkids (my sister and I). For some reason my uncle was very concerned that I would be offended that my sister got more money than I did, by about 10k. My mom told us separately and we both shrugged. My sister was the golden child and has kids of her own, it only makes sense that she got more.
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This thread is glorious. I hope there will be more posts soon.
I don't have any juicy inheritance stories. My Mom Mom (grandmother) passed December '14 and left money and items to her 3 children and 2 grandkids (my sister and I). For some reason my uncle was very concerned that I would be offended that my sister got more money than I did, by about 10k. My mom told us separately and we both shrugged. My sister was the golden child and has kids of her own, it only makes sense that she got more.
We have a small disparity between our daughters too- one has a small cash insurance policy and the other doesn't. I informed the daughters to work it out, even if that included a fist fight out in the driveway... and I didn't ever want to hear about it again..to my face...or behind my back... or I would direct the entire estate here, and they could figure out which one it was in tribute to: http://www.thedonkeysanctuary.org.uk/
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If my wife and I both die, I'm sure my kids will live in a very fancy house for the next few years and then be penniless and on their own at age 18.
You need better friends!
You really do. Is there NO ONE else you could have be the trustee? I have my sister as guardian and some friends as backup guardians and my mom as trustee. (I totally trust the sister and the friends, but my mom is more used to handling large sums of money--she is already taking care of her father's substantial $$$, so she seemed like the natural choice.) My mom is old enough that I would not want to saddle her with a pair of young kids but she could definitely do the money part.
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We have a small disparity between our daughters too- one has a small cash insurance policy and the other doesn't. I informed the daughters to work it out, even if that included a fist fight out in the driveway... and I didn't ever want to hear about it again..to my face...or behind my back... or I would direct the entire estate here, and they could figure out which one it was in tribute to: http://www.thedonkeysanctuary.org.uk/
...I think I may love you, haha— what an elegant solution!
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I have a very MMM Uncle. He's 83. Could drive a Benz or a BMW but has always driven Toyotas, lives pretty humbly. Casio watch, when he could have anything on his wrist he would like. He did have to get an anti-magnetic watch when he was in the Navy and still complains about having to "Waste" that much money on it in 1954-1955. Has picked up the spending a bit in his later years as he is off doing things he likes to do. Mostly because he is running out of time. If I am in my MID 80's and skiing I will count myself very lucky.
He's been a positive influence on me with spending even if sites like this did not exist. I actually feel that part of his and his partner's concern is that they see the accumulation phase and me being 36 and single and they think "No life, no partner." I'm not comfortable telling them about FIRE as he came from nothing. I also can see why they are concerned since without the FIRE concept I probably would have hoarded money. Which many people do.
I had a near death experience at the end of 2014. I was in a bad car crash with a truck and I walked away. I had a friend recently almost die in an accident and was in the ICU and then rehab for almost 2 months. I realized after that my Mother who does not approve of my MMM type lifestyle as she is very consumerist, and my other choices would have gotten everything. I'm not even sure that my "Weird" friends would have been contacted/invited for the funeral. I've been trying to figure out how to make sure one of two sets of my friends gets notified if I am incapacitated.
I also want someone to go in and get certain things out of my house before my family gets in there.
This is something to think about if you are single. How are you going to have your send off? If the rest of your family is consumerist, they may think that the best solution is to box you off in cardboard off to the crematorium ASAP so that more money is remaining for them. Imagine finding out 3-4 months later that a friend passed away when you "Ghost" out and then the Cell Phone, Facebook, Email, and other means of communication start bouncing.
After that I changed all the beneficiary forms to my two closest friends for the Vanguard accounts which have the Stache. If I pass away my Sister and BIL are then "only children" and there are two Long Island homes coming to them and 4 adults stuff coming to them. I also want my friends children, charities I care about that are not the charities my Mother or Sister cares about taken care of.
My Sister and I (and possibly based on the rules listed above my BIL) have been getting checks for the last 3-4 years at the 14K amount from my Uncle. For me they are going right into my Vanguard account and moving my FIRE date forward. They have a new Jeep Liberty "I got a great deal on it." and my BIL is running around in a leased Dodge Hemi truck for one person. They have huge personal parties, one of them was 3-3.5K for one night, and I missed my Sisters graduation party which probably was in the 1-2K range.
I get to hear "Oh we can't afford to get a house..." so dual income, living with your in-laws (they are paying under-market rent). Having received enough money for 10% down and all closing costs...
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This thread is glorious. I hope there will be more posts soon.
I don't have any juicy inheritance stories. My Mom Mom (grandmother) passed December '14 and left money and items to her 3 children and 2 grandkids (my sister and I). For some reason my uncle was very concerned that I would be offended that my sister got more money than I did, by about 10k. My mom told us separately and we both shrugged. My sister was the golden child and has kids of her own, it only makes sense that she got more.
We have a small disparity between our daughters too- one has a small cash insurance policy and the other doesn't. I informed the daughters to work it out, even if that included a fist fight out in the driveway... and I didn't ever want to hear about it again..to my face...or behind my back... or I would direct the entire estate here, and they could figure out which one it was in tribute to: http://www.thedonkeysanctuary.org.uk/
I like your style! From what I see at least telling them ahead of time tends to sooth ruffled feathers before the inheritance is actually received. Family should be there for each other in the time of death - not having a slap fight over the fine china in the driveway.
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In our will...
If the will ever gets used for this, I'll try to post something here, but I can't promise anything....
LOL! I found the whole process of setting up a will and even life insurance a bit ironic. By the time either gets "used" I will not care what happens.
In scenarios like this, one way to address it is to separate the guardian of the minors to the trustee of the trust. In my case I chose guardians that I feel will be better suited to take care of my children emotionally and choose a trustee that aligns more with my financial values. I trust both unconditionally also which helps me sleep better at night.
This might create a little tension separating the guardians and the trustee but I feel that having two parties involves helps keep accountability.
Agreed. We recently completed our estate planning and separated the Guardian for the kids from the Trustee of the estate as well. Guardian is best to raise the kids and the Trustee is frugal as can be. Both are well of financially, so hopefully the estate will not be abused. We also have the money going to a trust that can only be used for education and necessities until the kids reach age 35. Sorry kids no free rides. ;)
I enjoyed reading this thread. Nothing to contribute other than I watched my side of the family fight over even items of little monetary value when my grandparents passed. 4/5 siblings acting rationally and the 5th could not help but act like a savage. The remaining four still do not talk to the 5th after ~20+ years. Sad really. I expect nothing and hope both our parents spend every last dime before they die. However, I am not sure the other siblings feel the same way. Maybe someday I'll have more to contribute.
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We have a small disparity between our daughters too- one has a small cash insurance policy and the other doesn't. I informed the daughters to work it out, even if that included a fist fight out in the driveway... and I didn't ever want to hear about it again..to my face...or behind my back... or I would direct the entire estate here, and they could figure out which one it was in tribute to: http://www.thedonkeysanctuary.org.uk/
...I think I may love you, haha— what an elegant solution!
Funny thing is they got a pretty good laugh out of it when I told them...until I proved to them that the Donkey Sanctuary charity actually exists! Then they said "...maybe Mom already has a stall purchased for you!"
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When my dad's mom slipped and fell into a coma in the old country, my dad immediately booked a ticket and flew over. Before flying out, he tried to get in contact with his sister who lived an hour away from us. She went completely AWOL. My dad even called the local police 'cause he was worried she was missing for some awful reason. Nope, she disappeared by choice and only showed up at the hospital weeks later after she 'finally checked her messages' and found out that the plug was going to be pulled. I wasn't told the specifics but arguments regarding the inheritance ensured and my dad was so pissed that he gladly gave up all his inheritance in exchange for eternal peace and quiet from his sister (they have a complicated history). My mom was so happy :)
I go backpacking for weeks at a time and am completely cutoff from cell service (battery & signal). Not saying this is your sisters excuse but it is a legitimate excuse for some people.
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Thank goodness I haven't seen this in my family, but these stories do provide good warning!
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I am quite lucky in many ways: no family members have died in a very long time. There was no real fighting after the last death. Everyone in the family basically has there shit together-especially my grandparents w/ wills and I am an only child so that should make it really easy in a hopefully very long time when my parent departs.
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When my MIL died, my SIL was the executor. It was in the will that the assets would be split evenly between her three children.
DH considered taking some of his parents’ furniture as part of his share. As we had flown in for the funeral, he suggested driving MIL’s car home pulling a UHaul and selling the car for all to split proceeds once home. SIL was adamant that all property had to be valuated first and the car was not to leave FL. OK, except we learned she’d already offered the car to one of her daughters at well below market price.
I suggested that during the wake, friends of MIL should be allowed to select keepsakes from her large collection of fridge magnets and other decorative crap stuff the family didn’t want. (Most of these items had been gifts from those same friends and had no cash value.) SIL treated us to a monologue on how she needed to be alone in MIL’s house for at least a week, with every bit of stuff still in place, so she could “process” MIL’s death. She wanted us all to go home and to come back two months later to distribute the personal property. (MIL lived in Florida; BIL was working in Japan and we live in Washington State.) I gently pointed out that leaving the place unattended 2 months in that neighborhood would result in returning to a meth lab, and that DH was scheduled for spinal surgery at the time she was insisting on.
DH wanted a mantel clock for sentimental reasons. SIL declared that she was keeping it, as “I’m the executor.” Later we learned she’d told her daughters that DH shouldn’t get any heirlooms because we don’t have children.
She declared herself “the family matriarch”. (This alone was enough to merit a facepunch, in my book.)
She prevented BIL and DH from dividing any small personal property items all week, until literally the day we were leaving for the airport. Once home, she sent us a letter about how she was going to divide all residual monies equally as MIL had wished. In the next letter she said that because her name was listed as joint owner on MIL’s bank accounts, her lawyer said she was legally the owner and didn’t have to split the money so she was keeping it.
No surprise, DH hasn’t spoken to her since.
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I can't get enough of this thread.
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Okay, I had a bad October a while back. My father died with $70 to his name... and by the time I closed out his account (there's a thirty day waiting period) the bank had assesed $30 in fees. They stole my inheritance! :)
Ten days later my grandfather died. My father had been living with him, and it was really too much for him to handle. My aunt was always difficult her entire life, but she was truly distressing at both funerals. There are a lot of stories I could tell about stuff she took out of the house, but I will talk specifically about the family silver. I don't know how much there was. I don't know if it was good looking. All I know is that the day after my father's wake, my grandfather said he wanted to show it to me. He went to his hidey hole. It was gone. He'd mentioned it earlier in passing, so my aunt had taken it out and given it to her adult daughter who came to the wake to take back to her house in another state. Then when my grandfather died. My uncle called my aunt's kids and told them whoever came to that funeral had to bring the funeral back. He snagged it and sold it for melt value (undoubtedly what it was worth). He split the money with me (thank goodness, being out of town for a month is expensive!) but I still wonder what it looked like.
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When my MIL died, my SIL was the executor. It was in the will that the assets would be split evenly between her three children......
......In the next letter she said that because her name was listed as joint owner on MIL’s bank accounts, her lawyer said she was legally the owner and didn’t have to split the money so she was keeping it.
No surprise, DH hasn’t spoken to her since.
I want to say something very awful about SIL, but I won't. But really, what is wrong with these people?
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When my MIL died, my SIL was the executor. It was in the will that the assets would be split evenly between her three children.
DH considered taking some of his parents’ furniture as part of his share. As we had flown in for the funeral, he suggested driving MIL’s car home pulling a UHaul and selling the car for all to split proceeds once home. SIL was adamant that all property had to be valuated first and the car was not to leave FL. OK, except we learned she’d already offered the car to one of her daughters at well below market price.
I suggested that during the wake, friends of MIL should be allowed to select keepsakes from her large collection of fridge magnets and other decorative crap stuff the family didn’t want. (Most of these items had been gifts from those same friends and had no cash value.) SIL treated us to a monologue on how she needed to be alone in MIL’s house for at least a week, with every bit of stuff still in place, so she could “process” MIL’s death. She wanted us all to go home and to come back two months later to distribute the personal property. (MIL lived in Florida; BIL was working in Japan and we live in Washington State.) I gently pointed out that leaving the place unattended 2 months in that neighborhood would result in returning to a meth lab, and that DH was scheduled for spinal surgery at the time she was insisting on.
DH wanted a mantel clock for sentimental reasons. SIL declared that she was keeping it, as “I’m the executor.” Later we learned she’d told her daughters that DH shouldn’t get any heirlooms because we don’t have children.
She declared herself “the family matriarch”. (This alone was enough to merit a facepunch, in my book.)
She prevented BIL and DH from dividing any small personal property items all week, until literally the day we were leaving for the airport. Once home, she sent us a letter about how she was going to divide all residual monies equally as MIL had wished. In the next letter she said that because her name was listed as joint owner on MIL’s bank accounts, her lawyer said she was legally the owner and didn’t have to split the money so she was keeping it.
No surprise, DH hasn’t spoken to her since.
Your SIL sounds like my two SILs, dear husband's sisters and co-executors of my in-laws' estate. Had they not sucked every last dollar out of my in-laws during their lives, that is. I visited MILs house on the day she died, within an hour of her death--she had been in in-home hospice care--and I was shocked to see that nearly every piece of furniture and bric-a-brac was already gone, taken to give to one or another of SILs' kids.
DH ended up taking nothing. No, that's not true. What we do have are the cremains of both MIL and FIL. SILs were so busy taking everything else that they left the carved wooden caskets containing the ashes on the floor, uncomfortably close to a pile of trash, for days. My husband's brother begged him to take Mom and Dad home before "the girls" threw them out.
Neither of the girls has ever inquired as to the whereabouts of their parents.
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Reading through this thread with a careful eye, I'm wondering if some of you aren't related to each other without knowing it.
Party A says: my good for nothing drug addict family member never lifted a finger to help their ailing parent, and then had the nerve to show up at the funeral and demand part of the estate? We had to have the lawyers modify the trust documents so we wouldn't be on the hook for supporting those lowlifes. We haven't spoken since.
Party B says: my suck-up family member was always the golden child despite having way more money than all of the rest enough, but greed works in mysterious ways and before parent was even in the ground they had cleaned out the house of every trinket, frozen all of the accounts, and left us all with nothing. We haven't spoken since.
Any chance these two parties are siblings?
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Sol,
While the "law of big numbers" says that scenario is a pretty remote possibility, it would be an interesting premise to kick off a novel or screenplay.
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I want to say something very awful about SIL, but I won't. But really, what is wrong with these people?
[/quote]
Taran Wanderer: Oh, please feel free to say it. :-)
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My husband's brother begged him to take Mom and Dad home before "the girls" threw them out.
Neither of the girls has ever inquired as to the whereabouts of their parents.
[/quote]
That is beyond awful.
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I want to say something very awful about SIL, but I won't. But really, what is wrong with these people?
Taran Wanderer: Oh, please feel free to say it. :-)
[/quote]
I can't do it. It involves an uncouth participle and an unsayable word that rhymes with an action from American football.
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I want to say something very awful about SIL, but I won't. But really, what is wrong with these people?
Taran Wanderer: Oh, please feel free to say it. :-)
I can't do it. It involves an uncouth participle and an unsayable word that rhymes with an action from American football.
[/quote]
You're spot on. :-)
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it's a terrible job for the trustee sibling to have--all the more so because the will & trust almost never specifies that they should get paid anything for the work!
If we die before our children are 18, our assets go to a trust for their care. Our will specifies who will care for the kids, and it certainly spells out "all reasonable" expenses to the trustee for the trouble of taking them in.
The common problem with trust documents seems to be the exact opposite of what you've identified. It's not that trustees get saddled with work and no pay for it, it's that trustees get to drain too much of the trust funds for themselves because the definition of "reasonable and appropriate" expenses for the trustee is so easy to manipulate.
In cases where the trustee is the beneficiary, that's not a problem. But in the case of a trust like ours that is set up to care for our kids, I'm pretty confident the trustee/godparent is going to immediately spend down our assets on a fancy car and a new home and justify it as "necessary" because now she has these extra kids. If my wife and I both die, I'm sure my kids will live in a very fancy house for the next few years and then be penniless and on their own at age 18.
As with others, we split physical custody of our children (nearby friends first, MiniTX is friends with their kids, we see them a couple times a week. Sister as backup) - and financial custody. A different friend likes kids (teaches them martial arts part time) - but doesn't want any. She's by far the best with money. Widest knowledge, most MMM. With the friends, we all have each others's house keys.
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Later we learned she’d told her daughters that DH shouldn’t get any heirlooms because we don’t have children.
No surprise, DH hasn’t spoken to her since.
Geez - that's some crazy shit.
How old are the SIL kids? Don't they care/wonder why they stopped talking to their uncle after their grandmother died?
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When my maternal grandparents passed away they left all sentimental, generational family heirlooms to my uncle as he was the only son. In addition to letters and pictures was a family bible that had a handwritten account of births and deaths dating back over two hundred years as well as a handwritten account of the family's attempt to settle their farm land when they immigrated to the US (very cool).
My mother, the executor of the estate, was heartbroken to see my uncle get this family bible but stuck to the letter of my grandparents' will and doled out everything as they wanted.
Years later my uncle has blown through his money, lost his job, forgot to pay insurance on his house (in a flood plain), which was subsequently flooded, stopped paying his mortgage and eventually the bank was going to tear down the house as it was too damaged to salvage.
My mother and one of my aunts agreed to help him remove a few items from the home before it was razed (he had lost his license at that point) but on the appointed day he was MIA. My mother sat waiting for him for hours, just stewing over her brother's irresponsibility. Finally, she marched into the house, found the family bible and took it home.
The house (and everything in it) were gone by the end of the week but my mom had the bible cleaned and repaired by a professional book restorer and now it is safely tucked away in my parents' home. If my uncle ever mentions it I know she will give it back to him but I doubt he even remembers that he once had it.
I was not expecting that bittersweet ending. What a relief that your mother now has it! Maybe she can make copies of the history pages for your aunts to keep.
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Later we learned she’d told her daughters that DH shouldn’t get any heirlooms because we don’t have children.
No surprise, DH hasn’t spoken to her since.
Geez - that's some crazy shit.
How old are the SIL kids? Don't they care/wonder why they stopped talking to their uncle after their grandmother died?
Her kids are all grown; we have occasional contact with them. One of her daughters has also stopped talking to her, though not just over this.
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Approximately 13 years ago, my husband's paternal grandfather dies. My future husband moves into his home and takes on the daunting process of clearing out all his belongings. Grandfather left his home and property to his two kids, my husband's dad and aunt. My husband's dad eventually decides he and his wife need to move into the house as they have both lost their jobs on the opposite coast and feel like their job prospects may be better here. Future husband moves out, they move in.
Apparently the Grandfather actually wanted the property to go to the 4 grandsons but the will was never updated. So, Father-in-law buys out his sister and her two sons, and the property now belongs to him and his two sons. Father-in-law then decides that it will be most lucrative to divide the property into 4 separate parcels and sell/build an investment property on the other 3 parcels, while he and his wife live in the home. In order to do this he needed money and my now husband, his brother, and my sign-off. Unfortunately, we were young and stupid and believed him when he told us we were just signing to get the lot lines redrawn. We were actually signing onto a loan to the tune of $149k to pay for all the fees associated with dividing up the lot. We found out about the loan while trying to refinance our home. We are essentially cosigners on this loan. What's even worse is that we have never seen the receipts for the actual cost of redrawing the lot lines and we now also know that they brought personal debt into this loan to the tune of 30k-50k. We have never been able to get our hands on that documentation either.
Just after the lot was subdivided the stock market crashed and the ability to sell those lots has been pretty much nonexistent. Husband's father and wife ONLY PAY THE INTEREST on this loan and have been for the past 10 years.
Some solutions my husband and I have offered are to 1) sell the lots and put the proceeds toward the loan, 2) we pay off the loan and they sign over all lots but the house to us, 3) have us all start paying down the loan based on our percentage of ownership, etc. There is no solution they're okay with. I should also mention that they carried over about 250k to the house they live in, which was paid off when they inherited it. Father-in-law is in his seventies, still working, and making zero progress on this loan. In the meantime they have bought a share in a condo in Hawaii and travel there twice a year.
I am so frustrated with this situation as it feels like there is no solution. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them.
I would pretty much freak out if i found out someone did that to me. I would talk to a lawyer if I was you.
I take that back, if I was you I would waterboard my FIL.
ok, vented. Seriously though I would sue them.
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My paternal grandparents' deaths were full of drama.
7 kids (catholic family). 4 of the kids had undiagnosed, untreated mental health issues. By the time Grandpa had his stroke, Crazy Uncle still lived at home (in his 50's) had never held down a real job, did not use banks (money under mattress), etc.
So Grandpa has massive stroke and Super Catholic Uncle gets him put on a feeding tube, and he hangs on for 6 months in "rehab" before finally passing. Meanwhile, Crazy Uncle and Grandma live at home. It quickly becomes apparent that Grandma had been slipping mentally and Grandpa had been covering for her. Crazy Uncle is not covering for her. He is "taking care of her" but not well. Various attempts are made over a couple years to get him to do a better job of taking care of her in return for free room and board. In the end, Super Catholic Uncle (the only non-mentally ill one who lives locally) is doing all bill paying, checking in, scheduling, etc and Crazy Uncle is basically just a warm body in the house making sure Grandma doesn't wander out into traffic.
During these 2 years, there is much fighting amongst the siblings. Some of them do not ever visit Grandma. Some want the house sold and Grandma put in a home. Some want Crazy Uncle to continue "caring" for Grandma because the house is the main asset and if she goes in a home, there will be no inheritance (note: house was worth around 100K, and with 7 siblings it isn't like this is a ton of money we are talking about, making the whole thing even more sad). Alcoholic Uncle is an antiques hoarder and there is suspicion that he is nicking things from the house. Eventually Super Catholic Uncle, my dad, and Not-Crazy Aunt consult a lawyer, because getting Crazy Uncle out of the house is not super simple. They finally put Grandma in a nursing home, get Crazy Uncle out of the house, divide the possessions (this could be a whole separate story). By the time Grandma is in the home, she has lost a dangerous amount of weight, but she gains some weight in the home, continues to be a bitch on wheels (the more she lost her mind, the more bitchy she got. It was hilarious but also sad. She also got more and more racist to the point we would not take her out to lunch and stuff like that, as she would say LOUD "why is that black person in here" and things like that).
Grandma is in the home for about a year, slowly declining physically, totally not there mentally, the house gets sold, she dies before all the money is used, and everyone gets their 10K inheritance. Crazy Uncle is (we believe) getting some kind of section 8 type housing, Crazy Aunt*, Alcoholic Aunt, and Crazy Uncle #2 are basically never seen or heard from again. Alcoholic Uncle did not show up for the funeral. Crazy Uncle received his inheritance in cash. Crazy Aunt does still send wild emails to the whole family periodically so we know she is still alive. My dad, Not-Crazy Aunt, and Super Catholic Uncle still see each other a few times a year, with my dad and Not-Crazy Aunt being fairly close. Most of us grandkids (except my siblings and Not Crazy Aunt's kids) no longer see or talk to each other.
All that for 10K and some antiques.
*Tangential story about Crazy Aunt: Her oldest child gets into the state university, which has a very solid theater and film program, and he gets 100% financial aid because they have no money and no assets (they used to own a floral shop, but ran it into the ground, lost their paid off house, and declared bankruptcy. Totes the kind of people you want to be taking any kind of advice from). But he really wants to go out to CA to some fancy film school because he is going to be a famous director! For real!
So Cousin does 2 years for free at State, then quits to come home and start at Fancy Private Film School in the fall. He cannot actually get the loans for FPFS though, since neither he nor his parents can get them without some kind of co-signer. Crazy Aunt tries to convince everyone in the family to help pay for it, and everyone is like "WTF, your kid had a full ride, NO". So cousin works at the local movie theater for a couple years, then eventually somehow they scrape the money together and he moves out to Denver to go to some other "film "school" which is actually just an AA degree. Last I heard he is still working at a theater in Denver, never comes home (no money, no car) and has no other future plans.
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My paternal grandparents' deaths were full of drama.
7 kids (catholic family). 4 of the kids had undiagnosed, untreated mental health issues. By the time Grandpa had his stroke, Crazy Uncle still lived at home (in his 50's) had never held down a real job, did not use banks (money under mattress), etc.
So Grandpa has massive stroke and Super Catholic Uncle gets him put on a feeding tube, and he hangs on for 6 months in "rehab" before finally passing. Meanwhile, Crazy Uncle and Grandma live at home. It quickly becomes apparent that Grandma had been slipping mentally and Grandpa had been covering for her. Crazy Uncle is not covering for her. He is "taking care of her" but not well. Various attempts are made over a couple years to get him to do a better job of taking care of her in return for free room and board. In the end, Super Catholic Uncle (the only non-mentally ill one who lives locally) is doing all bill paying, checking in, scheduling, etc and Crazy Uncle is basically just a warm body in the house making sure Grandma doesn't wander out into traffic.
During these 2 years, there is much fighting amongst the siblings. Some of them do not ever visit Grandma. Some want the house sold and Grandma put in a home. Some want Crazy Uncle to continue "caring" for Grandma because the house is the main asset and if she goes in a home, there will be no inheritance (note: house was worth around 100K, and with 7 siblings it isn't like this is a ton of money we are talking about, making the whole thing even more sad). Alcoholic Uncle is an antiques hoarder and there is suspicion that he is nicking things from the house. Eventually Super Catholic Uncle, my dad, and Not-Crazy Aunt consult a lawyer, because getting Crazy Uncle out of the house is not super simple. They finally put Grandma in a nursing home, get Crazy Uncle out of the house, divide the possessions (this could be a whole separate story). By the time Grandma is in the home, she has lost a dangerous amount of weight, but she gains some weight in the home, continues to be a bitch on wheels (the more she lost her mind, the more bitchy she got. It was hilarious but also sad. She also got more and more racist to the point we would not take her out to lunch and stuff like that, as she would say LOUD "why is that black person in here" and things like that).
Grandma is in the home for about a year, slowly declining physically, totally not there mentally, the house gets sold, she dies before all the money is used, and everyone gets their 10K inheritance. Crazy Uncle is (we believe) getting some kind of section 8 type housing, Crazy Aunt*, Alcoholic Aunt, and Crazy Uncle #2 are basically never seen or heard from again. Alcoholic Uncle did not show up for the funeral. Crazy Uncle received his inheritance in cash. Crazy Aunt does still send wild emails to the whole family periodically so we know she is still alive. My dad, Not-Crazy Aunt, and Super Catholic Uncle still see each other a few times a year, with my dad and Not-Crazy Aunt being fairly close. Most of us grandkids (except my siblings and Not Crazy Aunt's kids) no longer see or talk to each other.
All that for 10K and some antiques.
*Tangential story about Crazy Aunt: Her oldest child gets into the state university, which has a very solid theater and film program, and he gets 100% financial aid because they have no money and no assets (they used to own a floral shop, but ran it into the ground, lost their paid off house, and declared bankruptcy. Totes the kind of people you want to be taking any kind of advice from). But he really wants to go out to CA to some fancy film school because he is going to be a famous director! For real!
So Cousin does 2 years for free at State, then quits to come home and start at Fancy Private Film School in the fall. He cannot actually get the loans for FPFS though, since neither he nor his parents can get them without some kind of co-signer. Crazy Aunt tries to convince everyone in the family to help pay for it, and everyone is like "WTF, your kid had a full ride, NO". So cousin works at the local movie theater for a couple years, then eventually somehow they scrape the money together and he moves out to Denver to go to some other "film "school" which is actually just an AA degree. Last I heard he is still working at a theater in Denver, never comes home (no money, no car) and has no other future plans.
Well, uh... bless their hearts. Hoo boy.
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Gawd. So thankful that my family is not like that at all--with the exception of the large Catholic part of it.
We were at a small family party last week, or two weeks ago, I think there were only 7 cousins there, and we were talking about how weird it was that a lot of folks we know don't hang out and have fun with their families. Then my cousin had the point: We were the weird ones.
My wife has commented a few times how my parents don't really have any friends (not true, but they don't get together that often so she doesn't see it). But they do--its family. My wife sees her cousins and aunts/uncles and grandma about three times a year. I see my family about 1-2 times a month and we all vacation together (same town, same beach, 1/4 mile or 15 miles apart).
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My own Inheritance drama is just beginning....
Father still alive gave a substantial amount to my sister and me 2 yrs ago as pre-inheritance. My sister had no plans for it and still doesn't. The money is literally losing value daily since it's in a savings account at the bank, at less than 2% interest eaten up by inflation.
I knew I would buy a condo and did that. Father being the way he is (frugal and a big supporter of RE investment) gave me about 10k more than her which I was happy for, but also felt bad towards her. She started to keep track which is totally fine, but now she is also asking what he gave me for my birthday and Christmas last year - to keep track.
I am afraid this is going to end up in trouble over the next 10 years.... and the real Drama that makes me sad is, that she isn't doing anything with her share to make it grow. But there is nothing I can do. She is grown up and knows better. :(
... to be continued...
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My own Inheritance drama is just beginning....
Father still alive gave a substantial amount to my sister and me 2 yrs ago as pre-inheritance. My sister had no plans for it and still doesn't. The money is literally losing value daily since it's in a savings account at the bank, at less than 2% interest eaten up by inflation.
I knew I would buy a condo and did that. Father being the way he is (frugal and a big supporter of RE investment) gave me about 10k more than her which I was happy for, but also felt bad towards her. She started to keep track which is totally fine, but now she is also asking what he gave me for my birthday and Christmas last year - to keep track.
I am afraid this is going to end up in trouble over the next 10 years.... and the real Drama that makes me sad is, that she isn't doing anything with her share to make it grow. But there is nothing I can do. She is grown up and knows better. :(
... to be continued...
What your dad gives you for your birthday or Christmas is none of her business.
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What your dad gives you for your birthday or Christmas is none of her business.
Thanks Threshkin - I agree and hummed and hahed my way out...
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What your dad gives you for your birthday or Christmas is none of her business.
Thanks Threshkin - I agree and hummed and hahed my way out...
I'm quite pleased to hear this. :)
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What your dad gives you for your birthday or Christmas is none of her business.
Thanks Threshkin - I agree and hummed and hahed my way out...
Wait, do we have the same sister?
My sister always asks who gave me how much bc she doesn't want to check were getting the same but she wants more than I got. Sometimes I tell her is none of her beeswax, other times I say crazy amounts to mess with her. 😃
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My brother forged my mothers signature to have the title of one of her properties given to him. Recently he sold this property to an aunt. This brother used to bemoan the fact that he has siblings and if my mother had only had him her assets would not have to be divided up. My father who is divorced from my mother is quite the piece of work, he gloated that my mother never sought child support from him and she had the full financial burden of raising us four kids while he received the marital home. I no longer speak to him and my half sister has also cut him off and told him she would donate her inheritance to a cat shelter. My half brothers sister who has been on economic outpatient care her entire life will no doubt be kicking up a fuss when my childless aunt dies. I know that aunt is leaving significant assets to charities and an original of Australia's constitution to a library. I'm pretty sure sil will fight this and she somehow has all the valuable assets from when my grandmother passed away including a pair of Chippendale chairs which would be worth a small fortune. Despite her pretentions to class she squabbled with her sister over her own mothers valuables. That side of the family bemoan that my grandmother sold a valuable plot of land that is now worth several million. They are just obsessed with inheritance, I guess since they never bothered have proper careers themselves. Sil son had attended one of the most expensive prep schools in Australua (funded by gp I'm sure) but dropped out and last I heard from my father is selling valuables from his grandfather (on mothers side)for income. My father actually thinks this is a good business and is very proud of his grandson for being a prime mooch.
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What your dad gives you for your birthday or Christmas is none of her business.
Thanks Threshkin - I agree and hummed and hahed my way out...
Wait, do we have the same sister?
My sister always asks who gave me how much bc she doesn't want to check were getting the same but she wants more than I got. Sometimes I tell her is none of her beeswax, other times I say crazy amounts to mess with her. 😃
LOL that's a good one too!
Maybe we do... :)
Last time I told her that the electronic transfer hadn't arrived yet... she didn't ask again... I suppose she got the point. I want her to get the same as I do! I really do - it's not fair to treat one kid different than the other - but I don't want her to be mad at ME if it's not the case.
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My brother forged my mothers signature to have the title of one of her properties given to him. Recently he sold this property to an aunt. This brother used to bemoan the fact that he has siblings and if my mother had only had him her assets would not have to be divided up. My father who is divorced from my mother is quite the piece of work, he gloated that my mother never sought child support from him and she had the full financial burden of raising us four kids while he received the marital home. I no longer speak to him and my half sister has also cut him off and told him she would donate her inheritance to a cat shelter. My half brothers sister who has been on economic outpatient care her entire life will no doubt be kicking up a fuss when my childless aunt dies. I know that aunt is leaving significant assets to charities and an original of Australia's constitution to a library. I'm pretty sure sil will fight this and she somehow has all the valuable assets from when my grandmother passed away including a pair of Chippendale chairs which would be worth a small fortune. Despite her pretentions to class she squabbled with her sister over her own mothers valuables. That side of the family bemoan that my grandmother sold a valuable plot of land that is now worth several million. They are just obsessed with inheritance, I guess since they never bothered have proper careers themselves. Sil son had attended one of the most expensive prep schools in Australua (funded by gp I'm sure) but dropped out and last I heard from my father is selling valuables from his grandfather (on mothers side)for income. My father actually thinks this is a good business and is very proud of his grandson for being a prime mooch.
WOW - that's rich! How awful to be so spiteful!!!
Apparently greed is running in the other half of your family. Just stay away from it as far as you can. Don't get involved and if it gets too bad hire a lawyer and let them deal with it. I am so sorry though that you have to watch and listen to all this. :(
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My brother forged my mothers signature to have the title of one of her properties given to him. Recently he sold this property to an aunt. This brother used to bemoan the fact that he has siblings and if my mother had only had him her assets would not have to be divided up. My father who is divorced from my mother is quite the piece of work, he gloated that my mother never sought child support from him and she had the full financial burden of raising us four kids while he received the marital home. I no longer speak to him and my half sister has also cut him off and told him she would donate her inheritance to a cat shelter. My half brothers sister who has been on economic outpatient care her entire life will no doubt be kicking up a fuss when my childless aunt dies. I know that aunt is leaving significant assets to charities and an original of Australia's constitution to a library. I'm pretty sure sil will fight this and she somehow has all the valuable assets from when my grandmother passed away including a pair of Chippendale chairs which would be worth a small fortune. Despite her pretentions to class she squabbled with her sister over her own mothers valuables. That side of the family bemoan that my grandmother sold a valuable plot of land that is now worth several million. They are just obsessed with inheritance, I guess since they never bothered have proper careers themselves. Sil son had attended one of the most expensive prep schools in Australua (funded by gp I'm sure) but dropped out and last I heard from my father is selling valuables from his grandfather (on mothers side)for income. My father actually thinks this is a good business and is very proud of his grandson for being a prime mooch.
Don't things need to be notarized or witnessed? How would someone get away with forging a title? Maybe practices are different elsewhere...
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My brother forged my mothers signature to have the title of one of her properties given to him. Recently he sold this property to an aunt.
How is this not fraud and theft?
Why didn't you all report his sorry ass to the competent authorities if he refused to sign it back?
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My own Inheritance drama is just beginning....
Father still alive gave a substantial amount to my sister and me 2 yrs ago as pre-inheritance. My sister had no plans for it and still doesn't. The money is literally losing value daily since it's in a savings account at the bank, at less than 2% interest eaten up by inflation.
I knew I would buy a condo and did that. Father being the way he is (frugal and a big supporter of RE investment) gave me about 10k more than her which I was happy for, but also felt bad towards her. She started to keep track which is totally fine, but now she is also asking what he gave me for my birthday and Christmas last year - to keep track.
I am afraid this is going to end up in trouble over the next 10 years.... and the real Drama that makes me sad is, that she isn't doing anything with her share to make it grow. But there is nothing I can do. She is grown up and knows better. :(
... to be continued...
What your dad gives you for your birthday or Christmas is none of her business.
And I would say that what her sis does with $10,000 is none of her business. It is certainly not snarkworthy for this website for f someone puts aside the money, giventhe dropping Dow this week.
I think condos are pretty awful "investments"
To each his own.
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My paternal grandparents' deaths were full of drama.
7 kids (catholic family). 4 of the kids had undiagnosed, untreated mental health issues. By the time Grandpa had his stroke, Crazy Uncle still lived at home (in his 50's) had never held down a real job, did not use banks (money under mattress), etc.
So Grandpa has massive stroke and Super Catholic Uncle gets him put on a feeding tube, and he hangs on for 6 months in "rehab" before finally passing. Meanwhile, Crazy Uncle and Grandma live at home. It quickly becomes apparent that Grandma had been slipping mentally and Grandpa had been covering for her. Crazy Uncle is not covering for her. He is "taking care of her" but not well. Various attempts are made over a couple years to get him to do a better job of taking care of her in return for free room and board. In the end, Super Catholic Uncle (the only non-mentally ill one who lives locally) is doing all bill paying, checking in, scheduling, etc and Crazy Uncle is basically just a warm body in the house making sure Grandma doesn't wander out into traffic.
During these 2 years, there is much fighting amongst the siblings. Some of them do not ever visit Grandma. Some want the house sold and Grandma put in a home. Some want Crazy Uncle to continue "caring" for Grandma because the house is the main asset and if she goes in a home, there will be no inheritance (note: house was worth around 100K, and with 7 siblings it isn't like this is a ton of money we are talking about, making the whole thing even more sad). Alcoholic Uncle is an antiques hoarder and there is suspicion that he is nicking things from the house. Eventually Super Catholic Uncle, my dad, and Not-Crazy Aunt consult a lawyer, because getting Crazy Uncle out of the house is not super simple. They finally put Grandma in a nursing home, get Crazy Uncle out of the house, divide the possessions (this could be a whole separate story). By the time Grandma is in the home, she has lost a dangerous amount of weight, but she gains some weight in the home, continues to be a bitch on wheels (the more she lost her mind, the more bitchy she got. It was hilarious but also sad. She also got more and more racist to the point we would not take her out to lunch and stuff like that, as she would say LOUD "why is that black person in here" and things like that).
Grandma is in the home for about a year, slowly declining physically, totally not there mentally, the house gets sold, she dies before all the money is used, and everyone gets their 10K inheritance. Crazy Uncle is (we believe) getting some kind of section 8 type housing, Crazy Aunt*, Alcoholic Aunt, and Crazy Uncle #2 are basically never seen or heard from again. Alcoholic Uncle did not show up for the funeral. Crazy Uncle received his inheritance in cash. Crazy Aunt does still send wild emails to the whole family periodically so we know she is still alive. My dad, Not-Crazy Aunt, and Super Catholic Uncle still see each other a few times a year, with my dad and Not-Crazy Aunt being fairly close. Most of us grandkids (except my siblings and Not Crazy Aunt's kids) no longer see or talk to each other.
All that for 10K and some antiques.
*Tangential story about Crazy Aunt: Her oldest child gets into the state university, which has a very solid theater and film program, and he gets 100% financial aid because they have no money and no assets (they used to own a floral shop, but ran it into the ground, lost their paid off house, and declared bankruptcy. Totes the kind of people you want to be taking any kind of advice from). But he really wants to go out to CA to some fancy film school because he is going to be a famous director! For real!
So Cousin does 2 years for free at State, then quits to come home and start at Fancy Private Film School in the fall. He cannot actually get the loans for FPFS though, since neither he nor his parents can get them without some kind of co-signer. Crazy Aunt tries to convince everyone in the family to help pay for it, and everyone is like "WTF, your kid had a full ride, NO". So cousin works at the local movie theater for a couple years, then eventually somehow they scrape the money together and he moves out to Denver to go to some other "film "school" which is actually just an AA degree. Last I heard he is still working at a theater in Denver, never comes home (no money, no car) and has no other future plans.
Hooo wee wow.
Let's see, my family is also large and Catholic (you'll see my story on page 1, grandpa died, kids don't get money till his 2nd wife dies, she's almost 98 and still going strong). To put it in your terms:
Alcoholic uncle: died young, leaving his wife to raise 7 kids on her own. She's amazing. (Raised her kids by being a seamstress).
Normal awesome aunt: still kicking, really close with her kids and grandkids, she's my favorite. Healthy, happy, and awesome. Was good to her Step-mom
Crazy aunt: generally nice, but did not approve of the step-mom and marriage thing, got pretty bitter. She died of something a couple of years ago.
Crazy uncle who WANTED HIS MONEY an HOUR after grandpa died: he's not in the greatest of health. He may die before step mom.
My mom was always supportive of step-mom. She was the executor. (My mom died of alcoholism a few years ago)
Mean uncle who also didn't approve of step-mom. Well, at least he moved away? He's still alive
Favorite uncle: worked the business so got his inheritance while grandpa was still alive. Made a LOT more money just by being savvy with real estate. Buy an old house, fix it up himself, sell it for a profit. Lather, rinse, repeat. He does nice work.
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given the dropping Dow this week.
I think condos are pretty awful "investments"
Buying high and selling low is much easier too. It kind of all depends on where the condo is right, or like if one intended to own it and live in it.
As much as I love this thread I am very disappointed with the lack of stories about people finding adult themed VHS tapes labeled "Mattock season III" that are really of grandpa & grandpa with the next door neighbor and a jar of mayonnaise.
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Following, this is terrible and fun at the same time...
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As much as I love this thread I am very disappointed with the lack of stories about people finding adult themed VHS tapes labeled "Mattock season III" that are really of grandpa & grandpa with the next door neighbor and a jar of mayonnaise.
Your family is apparently a little spicier than mine.
One of my grandpas definitely had a VHS porn stash, but several of us knew where it was (poorly) hidden and it mysteriously disappeared several years before he died. I like to think he had the foresight to to clean out his embarrassing stuff before his time came, in order to spare the family from any further gossip.
May we all be so thoughtful.
My other grandpa was diagnosed with severe emphysema and given a short time to live, while in his late 50s. He started writing a letter for his wife, on his computer, and left a printed letter with his will that had instructions for her on how to find it. He managed to keep it a secret while living another unexpected 14 years after that, and when she opened that letter on the computer it had 14 years of weekly messages to her, each describing how lucky he felt to have had that one additional week of experiences together and what they did that week that he most enjoyed. As love letters go, I'll never compete with that.
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My own Inheritance drama is just beginning....
Father still alive gave a substantial amount to my sister and me 2 yrs ago as pre-inheritance. My sister had no plans for it and still doesn't. The money is literally losing value daily since it's in a savings account at the bank, at less than 2% interest eaten up by inflation.
I knew I would buy a condo and did that. Father being the way he is (frugal and a big supporter of RE investment) gave me about 10k more than her which I was happy for, but also felt bad towards her. She started to keep track which is totally fine, but now she is also asking what he gave me for my birthday and Christmas last year - to keep track.
I am afraid this is going to end up in trouble over the next 10 years.... and the real Drama that makes me sad is, that she isn't doing anything with her share to make it grow. But there is nothing I can do. She is grown up and knows better. :(
... to be continued...
What your dad gives you for your birthday or Christmas is none of her business.
......also what the father gives the sister is not the OP business either (as well as what she does with it).
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As much as I love this thread I am very disappointed with the lack of stories about people finding adult themed VHS tapes labeled "Mattock season III" that are really of grandpa & grandpa with the next door neighbor and a jar of mayonnaise.
Your family is apparently a little spicier than mine.
One of my grandpas definitely had a VHS porn stash, but several of us knew where it was (poorly) hidden and it mysteriously disappeared several years before he died. I like to think he had the foresight to to clean out his embarrassing stuff before his time came, in order to spare the family from any further gossip.
May we all be so thoughtful.
My other grandpa was diagnosed with severe emphysema and given a short time to live, while in his late 50s. He started writing a letter for his wife, on his computer, and left a printed letter with his will that had instructions for her on how to find it. He managed to keep it a secret while living another unexpected 14 years after that, and when she opened that letter on the computer it had 14 years of weekly messages to her, each describing how lucky he felt to have had that one additional week of experiences together and what they did that week that he most enjoyed. As love letters go, I'll never compete with that.
I love this.
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As much as I love this thread I am very disappointed with the lack of stories about people finding adult themed VHS tapes labeled "Mattock season III" that are really of grandpa & grandpa with the next door neighbor and a jar of mayonnaise.
Your family is apparently a little spicier than mine.
One of my grandpas definitely had a VHS porn stash, but several of us knew where it was (poorly) hidden and it mysteriously disappeared several years before he died. I like to think he had the foresight to to clean out his embarrassing stuff before his time came, in order to spare the family from any further gossip.
May we all be so thoughtful.
My other grandpa was diagnosed with severe emphysema and given a short time to live, while in his late 50s. He started writing a letter for his wife, on his computer, and left a printed letter with his will that had instructions for her on how to find it. He managed to keep it a secret while living another unexpected 14 years after that, and when she opened that letter on the computer it had 14 years of weekly messages to her, each describing how lucky he felt to have had that one additional week of experiences together and what they did that week that he most enjoyed. As love letters go, I'll never compete with that.
I'm not crying, what are you talking about, YOU'RE CRYING
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As much as I love this thread I am very disappointed with the lack of stories about people finding adult themed VHS tapes labeled "Mattock season III" that are really of grandpa & grandpa with the next door neighbor and a jar of mayonnaise.
Your family is apparently a little spicier than mine.
One of my grandpas definitely had a VHS porn stash, but several of us knew where it was (poorly) hidden and it mysteriously disappeared several years before he died. I like to think he had the foresight to to clean out his embarrassing stuff before his time came, in order to spare the family from any further gossip.
May we all be so thoughtful.
My other grandpa was diagnosed with severe emphysema and given a short time to live, while in his late 50s. He started writing a letter for his wife, on his computer, and left a printed letter with his will that had instructions for her on how to find it. He managed to keep it a secret while living another unexpected 14 years after that, and when she opened that letter on the computer it had 14 years of weekly messages to her, each describing how lucky he felt to have had that one additional week of experiences together and what they did that week that he most enjoyed. As love letters go, I'll never compete with that.
I'm not crying, what are you talking about, YOU'RE CRYING
No, YOU'RE definitely the one dribbling snot while simultaneously grinning like a loon.
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My brother forged my mothers signature to have the title of one of her properties given to him. Recently he sold this property to an aunt. This brother used to bemoan the fact that he has siblings and if my mother had only had him her assets would not have to be divided up. My father who is divorced from my mother is quite the piece of work, he gloated that my mother never sought child support from him and she had the full financial burden of raising us four kids while he received the marital home. I no longer speak to him and my half sister has also cut him off and told him she would donate her inheritance to a cat shelter. My half brothers sister who has been on economic outpatient care her entire life will no doubt be kicking up a fuss when my childless aunt dies. I know that aunt is leaving significant assets to charities and an original of Australia's constitution to a library. I'm pretty sure sil will fight this and she somehow has all the valuable assets from when my grandmother passed away including a pair of Chippendale chairs which would be worth a small fortune. Despite her pretentions to class she squabbled with her sister over her own mothers valuables. That side of the family bemoan that my grandmother sold a valuable plot of land that is now worth several million. They are just obsessed with inheritance, I guess since they never bothered have proper careers themselves. Sil son had attended one of the most expensive prep schools in Australua (funded by gp I'm sure) but dropped out and last I heard from my father is selling valuables from his grandfather (on mothers side)for income. My father actually thinks this is a good business and is very proud of his grandson for being a prime mooch.
WOW - that's rich! How awful to be so spiteful!!!
Apparently greed is running in the other half of your family. Just stay away from it as far as you can. Don't get involved and if it gets too bad hire a lawyer and let them deal with it. I am so sorry though that you have to watch and listen to all this. :(
Yeah I intend to keep far away from that shitstorm! It's amazing how awful people can get about money they never earned.
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My brother forged my mothers signature to have the title of one of her properties given to him. Recently he sold this property to an aunt.
How is this not fraud and theft?
Why didn't you all report his sorry ass to the competent authorities if he refused to sign it back?
Don't things need to be notarized or witnessed? How would someone get away with forging a title? Maybe practices are different elsewhere...
[/quote]
This property is in Thailand, it is much easier to get away with dodgy dealings there, it's also very possible that bribes were handed over to help things along. My mother could take it up but doesn't want to. She's decided to disinherit him from her Australian assets instead. What he doesn't know is that she wants to disperse her assets now, I guess he probably would have challenged the will otherwise. She has also recently sold another of her Thai properties for 200k and will be selling the remaining one soon. Her Australian assets are worth quite a bit so he actually is missing out on a generous inheritance which he would have got if he hadn't stolen from her.
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She's decided to disinherit him from her Australian assets instead.
That is a sentence I have never read before. What a fascinating life.
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given the dropping Dow this week.
I think condos are pretty awful "investments"
Buying high and selling low is much easier too. It kind of all depends on where the condo is right, or like if one intended to own it and live in it.
As much as I love this thread I am very disappointed with the lack of stories about people finding adult themed VHS tapes labeled "Mattock season III" that are really of grandpa & grandpa with the next door neighbor and a jar of mayonnaise.
Thank you!
A condo in Iowa might not be a great investment...
and of course I would have much rather bought a 4 acre farm, but they are awfully hard to come by in downtown Toronto... ;)
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given the dropping Dow this week.
I think condos are pretty awful "investments"
Buying high and selling low is much easier too. It kind of all depends on where the condo is right, or like if one intended to own it and live in it.
As much as I love this thread I am very disappointed with the lack of stories about people finding adult themed VHS tapes labeled "Mattock season III" that are really of grandpa & grandpa with the next door neighbor and a jar of mayonnaise.
Thank you!
A condo in Iowa might not be a great investment...
and of course I would have much rather bought a 4 acre farm, but they are awfully hard to come by in downtown Toronto... ;)
HEY! Again, it would depend on where (location, location, location)!
Oh absolutely!! 100% agreed!
I mean... an igloo in Florida might not be a smart choice, but in Montreal or Quebec City... HUGE I mean HUGE return on investment!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ6Pdvf3TpQ
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And then come June you have a nice swimming pool.
I mean... an igloo in Florida might not be a smart choice, but in Montreal or Quebec City... HUGE I mean HUGE return on investment!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ6Pdvf3TpQ
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And then come June you have a nice swimming pool.
I mean... an igloo in Florida might not be a smart choice, but in Montreal or Quebec City... HUGE I mean HUGE return on investment!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ6Pdvf3TpQ
RIGHT?! Win win I'd say! ;)
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My own Inheritance drama is just beginning....
Father still alive gave a substantial amount to my sister and me 2 yrs ago as pre-inheritance. My sister had no plans for it and still doesn't. The money is literally losing value daily since it's in a savings account at the bank, at less than 2% interest eaten up by inflation.
I knew I would buy a condo and did that. Father being the way he is (frugal and a big supporter of RE investment) gave me about 10k more than her which I was happy for, but also felt bad towards her. She started to keep track which is totally fine, but now she is also asking what he gave me for my birthday and Christmas last year - to keep track.
I am afraid this is going to end up in trouble over the next 10 years.... and the real Drama that makes me sad is, that she isn't doing anything with her share to make it grow. But there is nothing I can do. She is grown up and knows better. :(
... to be continued...
Just curious - why did your dad give you 10K more? Or why didn't he give the same to your sister? That seems kind of.... unfair and sort of asking to foment trouble between siblings. Obviously a person can do whatever he wants with his money. But personally I wouldn't like it if one of my parents did that for no discernible reason other than my sibling wanted to buy real estate and I didn't.
You are completely right. It's not fair and I wish he would have split the money 50/50.
Luckily my sister and I both see that and she is not blaming me for his decision.
I can just hope that it will stay that way.
And why he did that? I say it's the intended investment that he prefers. But family issues run deep...
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My own Inheritance drama is just beginning....
Father still alive gave a substantial amount to my sister and me 2 yrs ago as pre-inheritance. My sister had no plans for it and still doesn't. The money is literally losing value daily since it's in a savings account at the bank, at less than 2% interest eaten up by inflation.
I knew I would buy a condo and did that. Father being the way he is (frugal and a big supporter of RE investment) gave me about 10k more than her which I was happy for, but also felt bad towards her. She started to keep track which is totally fine, but now she is also asking what he gave me for my birthday and Christmas last year - to keep track.
I am afraid this is going to end up in trouble over the next 10 years.... and the real Drama that makes me sad is, that she isn't doing anything with her share to make it grow. But there is nothing I can do. She is grown up and knows better. :(
... to be continued...
Just curious - why did your dad give you 10K more? Or why didn't he give the same to your sister? That seems kind of.... unfair and sort of asking to foment trouble between siblings. Obviously a person can do whatever he wants with his money. But personally I wouldn't like it if one of my parents did that for no discernible reason other than my sibling wanted to buy real estate and I didn't.
You are completely right. It's not fair and I wish he would have split the money 50/50.
Luckily my sister and I both see that and she is not blaming me for his decision.
I can just hope that it will stay that way.
And why he did that? I say it's the intended investment that he prefers. But family issues run deep...
Just curious: If you wish your dad had made it even, have you considered giving your sister $5K to make it even?
Yes I have. And I have offered it to her. But I have also helped her out financially a few times in the past. She acknowledges that and didnt want me to pay her out. For now.
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Well, it sounds like you have a great relationship. Good on you.
Thank you Joe. :)
Yes we do. I just hope it stays that way.
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She's decided to disinherit him from her Australian assets instead.
That is a sentence I have never read before. What a fascinating life.
She's Thai but lives in Australia now. Many Australians hold assets in their ancestral countries, particularly Thais, Greeks and Lebanese.
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Well, it sounds like you have a great relationship. Good on you.
Thank you Joe. :)
Yes we do. I just hope it stays that way.
Mermaid,
+1 on offering her the $5k and maintaining a good relationship. I have been through the gradual passing away of a parent and seen sibling relationships deepened and strengthened by treating each other well in the process. Great start by you and your dad. Good luck and best wishes!!
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I'm not going into the whole drama, but my husband's grandmother specified that everything be split 50/50 between the two daughters. The only problem is that there were assets that there was no way could be split 50/50, in particular a piece of family land that had a cabin that the grandfather had built. But the grandmother just kept with, everything, 50/50. One daughter was sentimentally attached to the land and wanted to keep it in the family, the other wanted to either buy out the land/cabin at a discounted rate, or sell it and split the money 50/50.
Protip: If it's just between two people, there is an optimal way to split things 50/50. First note that selling the property and splitting the proceeds DOES benefit both parties equally; however something feels "wrong" with this approach since one was more attached to it than the other. And it might not be optimal if the property were, e.g., worth $70k to her, but she only received $50k as her share of the sale.
The best way to do it is to have each daughter make a silent bid (they could simultaneously exchange slips of paper on which they wrote their bid amount) to decide the winner. Then the winner gets to have the property, and gives some cash to the loser. With numbers, this might work as
A bids $70k
B bids $60k.
Then A gets the property, and sends $70k/2 = 35k to B. In the end, A feels like she received $35k and B feels like she received $35k, and neither "envies" the other's position.
Brilliant!!
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given the dropping Dow this week.
I think condos are pretty awful "investments"
Buying high and selling low is much easier too. It kind of all depends on where the condo is right, or like if one intended to own it and live in it.
As much as I love this thread I am very disappointed with the lack of stories about people finding adult themed VHS tapes labeled "Mattock season III" that are really of grandpa & grandpa with the next door neighbor and a jar of mayonnaise.
Thank you!
A condo in Iowa might not be a great investment...
and of course I would have much rather bought a 4 acre farm, but they are awfully hard to come by in downtown Toronto... ;)
I apologize because a condo in Toronto is a decent place to park money. I had not paid attention to where you live.In the U.S. there are few markets that support condos. And you are right, Iowa aint one of them. I know. Ive lived there.
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thank you both, BicycleB and Iris.
I am trying. I guess all we can do is do our best. :)
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We went through an inheritance drama on my mom's side. It created a rift that never really healed.
My mother's mother had always given one of her 4 kids -- a younger son -- special treatment. Always made excuses for him about why he wasn't doing well, gave him free rent while signing papers saying he was paying rent, so he could get higher welfare. Always excusing his bad decisions, saying he was unlucky, and trying to make up for how bad the world was treating him. Meanwhile, he is
1) getting let go from jobs because of his temper and difficulty in taking direction
2) taking jobs under the table so that he isn't paying tax and the employer isn't paying WCB or EI, meaning that when he gets injured on the under-the-table job he is unable to work with no income.
3) not getting jobs he could have had if he'd finished his training instead of quitting halfway through because the twenty minute commute to school 'was killing him'
4) racking up credit card debt and using an inheritance to buy an RV instead of paying their 50K credit card debt down, saying 'we'll pay the debt down when we're old. we're going to live while we're young'
He and his wife lived in my grandmother's house, and decided they wanted to move to the boonies and start their own business. My grandmother decided that she would sell the house and give all the money to the two younger sons. There were some pretty interesting justifications to the two older children, like "He hasn't had the opportunities you had. The economy is way worse than when you were his age, etc. The youngest son disagreed, saying that was bullshit and completely unfair to the older two, and it ought to split equally 4 ways. She told him if he didn't agree, he could get nothing too. And she went ahead and left everything to the one brother, which was what she wanted in the first place anyway.
This is totally fine with the inheriting brother, who believes it is perfectly fair and totally justified, because he has been so screwed by the world.
Then they move to the boonies and buy a house and a recession-sensitive business which they probably paid too much for, and which doesn't earn what they need, and proceeded to take out loans on the home equity until there is nearly nothing left.
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No drama here, mostly posting to follow.
However, my little sister and I were discussing what we would inherit, and how stuff would be divvied up.
She gets 1st floor and above (house stuff, knicknacks etc)
I get the basement, mostly Dad's ham radio stuff, train set etc.
My stepmother comes in and asks "What are you guys talking about?".
Us-- How we divvy stuff up, and then we explain it and got a nodding approval for the plan.
At the time, I was ~ 23 and Sis was ~ 14
My stepmother has mentioned giggly, that "I guess we are spending your inheritance", with new kitchen redoo, new garage,
all after my dad retired.
I said "It's your money".
Anyway, my stepmom is likely to last a long time, based on her mom's age, so I'm not looking for anything at all.
My guess that their income/wealth is mostly from dad's pension, which I can't inherit anyway.
Edit: well, I hope it all pans out that way.
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No drama here, mostly posting to follow.
However, my little sister and I were discussing what we would inherit, and how stuff would be divvied up.
She gets 1st floor and above (house stuff, knicknacks etc)
I get the basement, mostly Dad's ham radio stuff, train set etc.
My stepmother comes in and asks "What are you guys talking about?".
Us-- How we divvy stuff up, and then we explain it and got a nodding approval for the plan.
At the time, I was ~ 23 and Sis was ~ 14
My stepmother has mentioned giggly, that "I guess we are spending your inheritance", with new kitchen redoo, new garage,
all after my dad retired.
I said "It's your money".
Anyway, my stepmom is likely to last a long time, based on her mom's age, so I'm not looking for anything at all.
My guess that their income/wealth is mostly from dad's pension, which I can't inherit anyway.
That's a cute story! Thanks for sharing!
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@ Mermaid3011
I thought it was a nice counterpoint to the rest of the thread.
didn't want to kill the thread with cuteness! Oops.
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We have a drama in progress. DW's grandfather passed away recently. Grandmother is still kicking at 90, but feeling old and alone. Their plan had always been to split the estate evenly between DW's father and uncle, their two children. Now, grandmother is thinking of leaving more to the uncle, "because he needs it more."
This is deepening a rift that started nearly fifty years ago when grandfather and grandmother paid for uncle's private college education, and then "didn't have enough" to pay for father's education, so he went to community college, and then on to finish up at the state school. DW's father started bagging groceries after college, and then eventually landed a public sector union job. Lots of hard and sometimes dangerous work, but through a long career, miserly frugality, and careful money management, DW's father amassed a nearly $2 million nest egg and DW's parents were able to retire in their mid to late fifties.
Meanwhile, DW's uncle worked in accounting, bought a nice house in the suburbs, furnished it respectably and impeccably, traveled to Hawaii regularly, and is still working in his early sixties. But grandmother may now give uncle more "because he needs it more".
The thing I don't understand is how parents can be so obtuse with these things. Can they not see the emotional damage they are wreaking? I love what my mom and stepfather have done: with my mom's two and my stepfather's three kids, they have said that they plan to split everything 5 ways. Plain and simple. If one goes before the other, I guess that could potentially change, but given who they are, how they live, and how generous and kind they are, I doubt it. And if so, so what? We are all grown ups and don't "deserve" anything.
Back to DW's grandfather, I hope we make it through the funeral this week without big drama. There are already other issues surfacing about the remembrance video...
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The thing I don't understand is how parents can be so obtuse with these things. Can they not see the emotional damage they are wreaking? I love what my mom and stepfather have done: with my mom's two and my stepfather's three kids, they have said that they plan to split everything 5 ways. Plain and simple. If one goes before the other, I guess that could potentially change, but given who they are, how they live, and how generous and kind they are, I doubt it. And if so, so what? We are all grown ups and don't "deserve" anything.
I think most people do, but they rationalise it away as one son being emotionally hurt as a lesser evil than their other son actually starving/becoming homeless in retirement. Even when the starvation/homelessness/whatever is entirely self-inflicted.
In the Millionaire Next Door books the author talks about how wealthy parents can inadvertantly 'weaken' one child with what he called 'economic outpatient care'. EOC involved subsidising the child's lifestyle and perversely rewarding their bad behaviour.
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The thing I don't understand is how parents can be so obtuse with these things. Can they not see the emotional damage they are wreaking? I love what my mom and stepfather have done: with my mom's two and my stepfather's three kids, they have said that they plan to split everything 5 ways. Plain and simple. If one goes before the other, I guess that could potentially change, but given who they are, how they live, and how generous and kind they are, I doubt it. And if so, so what? We are all grown ups and don't "deserve" anything.
I think most people do, but they rationalise it away as one son being emotionally hurt as a lesser evil than their other son actually starving/becoming homeless in retirement. Even when the starvation/homelessness/whatever is entirely self-inflicted.
In the Millionaire Next Door books the author talks about how wealthy parents can inadvertantly 'weaken' one child with what he called 'economic outpatient care'. EOC involved subsidising the child's lifestyle and perversely rewarding their bad behaviour.
I think that most parents and/or grandparents don't realize how their actions make the other siblings feel when they single out one to help even when the rest are financially and emotionally fine. If they do, they must believe that the other kids that "don't need it" understand and are okay with the additional help that is given. Because I do not have any kids I cannot speak from a parents point of view but I wonder if some of the extra giving is because parents want to feel needed and so they continue to give to the struggling children even if it is self-inflicted. Do any parents have thoughts on this?
I have experienced this firsthand and completely agree with "Economic Outpatient Care". My parents continue to financially help my soon to be 26 year old sibling even though she has a decent job ($45k) because she blows it on ridiculous stuff. I just sit back and wonder how long it will continue...?
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The thing I don't understand is how parents can be so obtuse with these things. Can they not see the emotional damage they are wreaking? I love what my mom and stepfather have done: with my mom's two and my stepfather's three kids, they have said that they plan to split everything 5 ways. Plain and simple. If one goes before the other, I guess that could potentially change, but given who they are, how they live, and how generous and kind they are, I doubt it. And if so, so what? We are all grown ups and don't "deserve" anything.
I think most people do, but they rationalise it away as one son being emotionally hurt as a lesser evil than their other son actually starving/becoming homeless in retirement. Even when the starvation/homelessness/whatever is entirely self-inflicted.
In the Millionaire Next Door books the author talks about how wealthy parents can inadvertantly 'weaken' one child with what he called 'economic outpatient care'. EOC involved subsidising the child's lifestyle and perversely rewarding their bad behaviour.
I think that most parents and/or grandparents don't realize how their actions make the other siblings feel when they single out one to help even when the rest are financially and emotionally fine. If they do, they must believe that the other kids that "don't need it" understand and are okay with the additional help that is given. Because I do not have any kids I cannot speak from a parents point of view but I wonder if some of the extra giving is because parents want to feel needed and so they continue to give to the struggling children even if it is self-inflicted. Do any parents have thoughts on this?
I have experienced this firsthand and completely agree with "Economic Outpatient Care". My parents continue to financially help my soon to be 26 year old sibling even though she has a decent job ($45k) because she blows it on ridiculous stuff. I just sit back and wonder how long it will continue...?
As a parent of teens, I wonder how I would handle it. When we grew up, my older brother has received much more financial support from my parents than I have (my Dad bought him a car, etc). I don't ask for details so I don't know how much. He has always struggled on the edge financially and now, in his late 30s, with a wife and small baby to support, he still has to ask for financial help now and again. On the other hand, I've always been proud of being prudent financially. I got married young and DH and I have always been careful with our money. My parents have given us money for trips to visit them, generous gifts for all of us (I joke that all my "nice" furniture are gifts from my Dad) and so on but other than that, we support ourselves just fine.
At this point, I have no feelings of resentment or jealousy over the extra help my brother has gotten. Whether it was healthy for him is a whole 'nother topic. And I already find myself wanting to be extra generous towards his baby girl (I'm trying to convince DH to let me pay for all of us to have a vacation at Disney next summer).
I have a sneaky feeling that when it comes to dividing the estate, I will likely WANT to give a larger portion to my brother under the guise that "he needs it more". ACK - I am as bad as my parents!!!
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We're working through a "but X needs it more" situation at present, but with a slight twist.
DW's parents are both still with us, but they're doing some estate planning and DW, being the financially stable sibling, has been included in the conversation. My BIL is a walking financial disaster. Good guy, but some poor career decisions, bankruptcy, divorce, and a tendency to spend on things because he "deserves" them have all taken their toll. He and his young son have now moved back "home" with the in-laws. He has an OK job, but is basically living paycheck to paycheck. Anyway... the in-laws have come to the conclusion that they have assisted BIL more than DW, and want to correct that going forward. They are obsessed with making all financial things "even."
Our argument to them is - BIL needs it more. We don't need their money. We're FI. We have everything we want and need. If the in-laws aren't going to spend the money on themselves, then they should give it to BIL. If you don't give BIL enough money to correct his situation (set aside the debate as to whether or not he actually WOULD use it for that...) then his financial care falls on us when the in-laws are gone. Despite our frustrations with some of BIL's decisions, we're not so cold hearted that we're going to allow a sibling and nephew to live in poverty. We would prefer that my in-laws give him the money, and that way we're left out of it. Unfortunately the in-laws see it differently, and care of my BIL and nephew is going to fall squarely on our shoulders after they pass.
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Mom and Daddy are still alive. But were they to get hit by a low flying flamingo tomorrow, my older brother and I would inherit everything equally. They only difference is that I get my share upfront, while his is put in a trust with me as the executor. I told Daddy that my brother wouldn't be the rock I carry around my neck for the rest of my life, and that I would be releasing his money to him asap. The less I have to do with my sibling, the better.
Daddy shrugged, told me he would dead so he wouldn't care, then told me not to be bitter. Then he went on an hour long diatribe about what a mess my brother is, and how Daddy cried over him. I'm not the bitter one.
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I dont know, there is a situation n DH's family where one of the grandchildren is "getting more," thousands more, than the other grandchildren. But extenuating circumstances prevail, so I dont think there is much resentment in the family.
The young man who is "getting more" was a meth head and lost his teeth. He has done a really really good job in turning his life around, and grandpa is paying multi thousands of dollars for dental implants.
Since his kid was dealt a harsh blow in life when his dad picked a loser woman for his mother, a lyng skanky person, the kid started out with less than his cousins.
So, in this case is it fine with me that the former meth kid hets etuff. After all, its just teeth and his cousns all have fine teeth.
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Regarding Economic Outpatient Care, I can see how it develops.
I have a kid with ASD and a neurotypical kid. We are already spending more resources on the ASD kid (private therapy lessons, etc) because he needs it more. Life will probably be harder for him as an adult because he lacks certain skills that DD has. At some point he will hopefully stand on his own two feet and manage his own life, but I can see how after 20 years of helping him along, it will be hard to transition to letting him navigate life on his own.
I see it mirrored somewhat in my H and his sister. His sister had/has ADHD as a child, and they tried medicating her but it did not work. As a child she got some special treatment because school was a lot harder for her. This is somewhat justified (see above comments about spending more on my own son) but MIL never transitioned to expecting more from SIL. And now at age 38, if MIL suddenly yanked all support, it would be a disaster, because she never let SIL fail while the stakes were lower.
MIL tried to pull the "you have to help SIL out once I am gone" on H, and he shut it down quick by telling her he would be ahppy to help her set up a trust for SIL. That is not what MIL meant, lol, so she dropped it. SIL is inheriting a considerably more valuable house than us (most of MIL's assets are houses that she rents out) because she "needs it more". Consensus is that she will not be able to pay the property taxes on the expensive house- once again MIL is doing her no favors by "helping" her. I don't care that SIL will get more*, I just hate that it will all be wasted. Oh well.
*most of the time I don't care. Sometimes I get really pissed on DH's behalf that his mother gives SIL 90% of her time and 60-70% of her resources.
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Here is a funny story that is not exactly inheritance related.
My grandma died, and we were all helping my Grandpa clean out her stuff. She was a huge clotheshorse. She had certain jeans she loved, so she had 20 identical pairs. She had 10 nearly identical black purses. Etc. Because, you know, Kohls was having a sale. But she grew up SUPER poor, so we all understood why she was like that.
My mom is going through the clothes, filling up like 20 bags with goodwill stuff, and she checks a pocket for some reason, and discovers 100$. And then later she finds another few hundred. And so at this point, we unpack all the bags and check all the pockets in clothes and purses in case there is more.
We found over 10,000$.
My grandpa had no clue any of it existed. From what we could figure out, whenever she had a little extra cash, either from the budget or from selling Mary Kay, or from a holiday, she would stash it. I am sure it started when she was a young, poor housewife, from a dysfunctional family who would not have helped her if she needed it, and this was her emergency stash. But by the time she died, she and my grandpa were worth millions thanks to judicious saving and living frugally.
We used the money to hold a kick ass memorial reception, which she would have loved.
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Mostly posting to follow.
I am just starting my own personal inheritance drama. But it hasn't played out yet, so very difficult to guess where it will go. Let's just say it all starts with one sibling that treated my parents very poorly, while consistently asking for (and receiving) handouts. Of the handouts I know of, I can easily add up to a 7 figure sum -- and it's just gone now. It went to fund a very spendy alcoholic lifestyle.
In the will the spendy alcoholic had their portion significantly reduced -- bypassing Spendy and going directly to Spendy's adult children.
Drama to follow...
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We're working through a "but X needs it more" situation at present, but with a slight twist.
DW's parents are both still with us, but they're doing some estate planning and DW, being the financially stable sibling, has been included in the conversation. My BIL is a walking financial disaster. Good guy, but some poor career decisions, bankruptcy, divorce, and a tendency to spend on things because he "deserves" them have all taken their toll. He and his young son have now moved back "home" with the in-laws. He has an OK job, but is basically living paycheck to paycheck. Anyway... the in-laws have come to the conclusion that they have assisted BIL more than DW, and want to correct that going forward. They are obsessed with making all financial things "even."
Our argument to them is - BIL needs it more. We don't need their money. We're FI. We have everything we want and need. If the in-laws aren't going to spend the money on themselves, then they should give it to BIL. If you don't give BIL enough money to correct his situation (set aside the debate as to whether or not he actually WOULD use it for that...) then his financial care falls on us when the in-laws are gone. Despite our frustrations with some of BIL's decisions, we're not so cold hearted that we're going to allow a sibling and nephew to live in poverty. We would prefer that my in-laws give him the money, and that way we're left out of it. Unfortunately the in-laws see it differently, and care of my BIL and nephew is going to fall squarely on our shoulders after they pass.
Yeah I mentioned earlier in the thread that my parents told me my inheritance would be my then-8 year old brother plus a pile of money to ensure he was raised right. I was about... 15? Maybe 16?
Now that he's an adult they're still asking me to keep an eye on him. To be fair they aren't wrong to be so worried, but the solution is to coach him into fierce independence, not hope I catch him before he does anything too dumb.
He's part of the reason I want FI - he has learning problems and I worry about him. Plus, if I coach him into FI with me, we can hang out more often! :-)
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Here is a funny story that is not exactly inheritance related.
My grandma died, and we were all helping my Grandpa clean out her stuff. She was a huge clotheshorse. She had certain jeans she loved, so she had 20 identical pairs. She had 10 nearly identical black purses. Etc. Because, you know, Kohls was having a sale. But she grew up SUPER poor, so we all understood why she was like that.
My mom is going through the clothes, filling up like 20 bags with goodwill stuff, and she checks a pocket for some reason, and discovers 100$. And then later she finds another few hundred. And so at this point, we unpack all the bags and check all the pockets in clothes and purses in case there is more.
We found over 10,000$.
My grandpa had no clue any of it existed. From what we could figure out, whenever she had a little extra cash, either from the budget or from selling Mary Kay, or from a holiday, she would stash it. I am sure it started when she was a young, poor housewife, from a dysfunctional family who would not have helped her if she needed it, and this was her emergency stash. But by the time she died, she and my grandpa were worth millions thanks to judicious saving and living frugally.
We used the money to hold a kick ass memorial reception, which she would have loved.
Awww....I love that story!!!
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That reminds me, I need to get some new jeans, if they are comfortable and I like wearing them, I'll go and buy 5 more. I'm starting to love wearing identical things daily, it makes life a little easier.
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Where to begin...
DW's dad and step-mother are both still alive and well, but I expect some drama when they do finally pass. My wife has 2 older brothers: the middle son is doing quite well and has MMM skills, the oldest drinks and spends too much (but his house is paid for and kids are grown, so could be much worse).
The problem is going to be with DW's step-sister. She's the same age as the older brother (late 40's?), is three times divorced, and is in general a complete train wreck. She married husband number three after dating for a couple months. He apparently told her he was a sex offender, but lied about his/the victim's ages. She had an in-home daycare that she's run for about 20 years. Suddenly, she is closing it without another job prospect. We all scratched our heads over this one, til it dawned on me that he must be a sex offender. Looked him up, sure enough - he was 19, she was 13. We passed that information on to DW's dad, who relayed it to her. Long story short, she booted him out, he landed back in jail (for like the third time) for being non-compliant. Not before he financed a car and ran up a bunch of credit cards in her name.
She decided against declaring bankruptcy, but is instead ignoring all of her bills/creditors (good plan). She's reopened her daycare, but is constantly complaining how she has no money. Meanwhile, on Facebook we see an endless procession of pictures/videos of her out at the bar with her friends each and every weekend, drinking it up. Did I mention she's friends with her daycare clients on Facebook!?!? Just the kind of person I'd want watching my kids... She's also taking a 7 day cruise in April with FIL and SMIL, but still has no money and can't figure out why. DW and I just shake our heads and use it as a teachable moment for our kids.
To their credit, FIL and SMIL have changed their will so that she only gets an 1/8 of the estate. Her other half goes to her grown daughter who is unfortunately just like her mom. I can't see this ending well. I just hope it's years from now before we have to deal with it!
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That reminds me, I need to get some new jeans, if they are comfortable and I like wearing them, I'll go and buy 5 more. I'm starting to love wearing identical things daily, it makes life a little easier.
I just found a pair of jeans that are dark-wash (so I can wear them to work with a blazer), fit PERFECTLY, and are 17$. I ordered 2 more pairs, no joke.
My inheritance drama involves my uncle denying my grandmother medical care so he could spend an extra 6 months raiding her retirement accounts. The case is still in court (elder abuse), and the lawyer and psychologist who helped him are being investigated by their professional orders. The psychologist, specifically, has been ordered to stop practicing until a verdict is reached, and THAT's in court, too.
Conclusion: don't mess with my mom. She's nice until you're not, and then you're TOAST.
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Where to begin...
DW's dad and step-mother are both still alive and well, but I expect some drama when they do finally pass. My wife has 2 older brothers: the middle son is doing quite well and has MMM skills, the oldest drinks and spends too much (but his house is paid for and kids are grown, so could be much worse).
The problem is going to be with DW's step-sister. She's the same age as the older brother (late 40's?), is three times divorced, and is in general a complete train wreck. She married husband number three after dating for a couple months. He apparently told her he was a sex offender, but lied about his/the victim's ages. She had an in-home daycare that she's run for about 20 years. Suddenly, she is closing it without another job prospect. We all scratched our heads over this one, til it dawned on me that he must be a sex offender. Looked him up, sure enough - he was 19, she was 13. We passed that information on to DW's dad, who relayed it to her. Long story short, she booted him out, he landed back in jail (for like the third time) for being non-compliant. Not before he financed a car and ran up a bunch of credit cards in her name.
She decided against declaring bankruptcy, but is instead ignoring all of her bills/creditors (good plan). She's reopened her daycare, but is constantly complaining how she has no money. Meanwhile, on Facebook we see an endless procession of pictures/videos of her out at the bar with her friends each and every weekend, drinking it up. Did I mention she's friends with her daycare clients on Facebook!?!? Just the kind of person I'd want watching my kids... She's also taking a 7 day cruise in April with FIL and SMIL, but still has no money and can't figure out why. DW and I just shake our heads and use it as a teachable moment for our kids.
To their credit, FIL and SMIL have changed their will so that she only gets an 1/8 of the estate. Her other half goes to her grown daughter who is unfortunately just like her mom. I can't see this ending well. I just hope it's years from now before we have to deal with it!
To be honest, if you find that out about your husband, you really need a drink.
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Here is a funny story that is not exactly inheritance related.
My grandma died, and we were all helping my Grandpa clean out her stuff. She was a huge clotheshorse. She had certain jeans she loved, so she had 20 identical pairs. She had 10 nearly identical black purses. Etc. Because, you know, Kohls was having a sale. But she grew up SUPER poor, so we all understood why she was like that.
My mom is going through the clothes, filling up like 20 bags with goodwill stuff, and she checks a pocket for some reason, and discovers 100$. And then later she finds another few hundred. And so at this point, we unpack all the bags and check all the pockets in clothes and purses in case there is more.
We found over 10,000$.
My grandpa had no clue any of it existed. From what we could figure out, whenever she had a little extra cash, either from the budget or from selling Mary Kay, or from a holiday, she would stash it. I am sure it started when she was a young, poor housewife, from a dysfunctional family who would not have helped her if she needed it, and this was her emergency stash. But by the time she died, she and my grandpa were worth millions thanks to judicious saving and living frugally.
We used the money to hold a kick ass memorial reception, which she would have loved.
Holy crap! That's incredible!
My mom has a similar, but not quite as badass story, about my great-grandmother. Great-grandma was born in 1904, married young, had grandpa, and divorced her alcoholic husband in 1926 (go, great-grandma!). She was a single mom raising grandpa through the prime-time of the Great Depression, so I can only imagine how tough it was on her. As many of her generation did, throughout the rest of her life she never again trusted the stock market, or most banks, and only took out U.S. Savings Bonds as her means of saving. As she got older and needed to be moved into a retirement home, she called my mom and instructed her to go into her house and remove the center leaf of her dining room table. My mom found what turned out to be approximately $15,000 worth of U.S. Savings Bonds in that table.
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Here is a funny story that is not exactly inheritance related.
My grandma died, and we were all helping my Grandpa clean out her stuff. She was a huge clotheshorse. She had certain jeans she loved, so she had 20 identical pairs. She had 10 nearly identical black purses. Etc. Because, you know, Kohls was having a sale. But she grew up SUPER poor, so we all understood why she was like that.
My mom is going through the clothes, filling up like 20 bags with goodwill stuff, and she checks a pocket for some reason, and discovers 100$. And then later she finds another few hundred. And so at this point, we unpack all the bags and check all the pockets in clothes and purses in case there is more.
We found over 10,000$.
My grandpa had no clue any of it existed. From what we could figure out, whenever she had a little extra cash, either from the budget or from selling Mary Kay, or from a holiday, she would stash it. I am sure it started when she was a young, poor housewife, from a dysfunctional family who would not have helped her if she needed it, and this was her emergency stash. But by the time she died, she and my grandpa were worth millions thanks to judicious saving and living frugally.
We used the money to hold a kick ass memorial reception, which she would have loved.
Holy crap! That's incredible!
My mom has a similar, but not quite as badass story, about my great-grandmother. Great-grandma was born in 1904, married young, had grandpa, and divorced her alcoholic husband in 1926 (go, great-grandma!). She was a single mom raising grandpa through the prime-time of the Great Depression, so I can only imagine how tough it was on her. As many of her generation did, throughout the rest of her life she never again trusted the stock market, or most banks, and only took out U.S. Savings Bonds as her means of saving. As she got older and needed to be moved into a retirement home, she called my mom and instructed her to go into her house and remove the center leaf of her dining room table. My mom found what turned out to be approximately $15,000 worth of U.S. Savings Bonds in that table.
We had to take my great aunt's house apart to find a stack of savings bonds worth over $100,000. She knew she put them somewhere safe, but couldn't remember where (small nook in the 2nd bedroom closet).
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Here is a funny story that is not exactly inheritance related.
My grandma died, and we were all helping my Grandpa clean out her stuff. She was a huge clotheshorse. She had certain jeans she loved, so she had 20 identical pairs. She had 10 nearly identical black purses. Etc. Because, you know, Kohls was having a sale. But she grew up SUPER poor, so we all understood why she was like that.
My mom is going through the clothes, filling up like 20 bags with goodwill stuff, and she checks a pocket for some reason, and discovers 100$. And then later she finds another few hundred. And so at this point, we unpack all the bags and check all the pockets in clothes and purses in case there is more.
We found over 10,000$.
My grandpa had no clue any of it existed. From what we could figure out, whenever she had a little extra cash, either from the budget or from selling Mary Kay, or from a holiday, she would stash it. I am sure it started when she was a young, poor housewife, from a dysfunctional family who would not have helped her if she needed it, and this was her emergency stash. But by the time she died, she and my grandpa were worth millions thanks to judicious saving and living frugally.
We used the money to hold a kick ass memorial reception, which she would have loved.
Holy crap! That's incredible!
My mom has a similar, but not quite as badass story, about my great-grandmother. Great-grandma was born in 1904, married young, had grandpa, and divorced her alcoholic husband in 1926 (go, great-grandma!). She was a single mom raising grandpa through the prime-time of the Great Depression, so I can only imagine how tough it was on her. As many of her generation did, throughout the rest of her life she never again trusted the stock market, or most banks, and only took out U.S. Savings Bonds as her means of saving. As she got older and needed to be moved into a retirement home, she called my mom and instructed her to go into her house and remove the center leaf of her dining room table. My mom found what turned out to be approximately $15,000 worth of U.S. Savings Bonds in that table.
We had to take my great aunt's house apart to find a stack of savings bonds worth over $100,000. She knew she put them somewhere safe, but couldn't remember where (small nook in the 2nd bedroom closet).
I would not be surprised to find this at my parents' house. Mom had Alzheimer's. The last few years she was home she was both increasingly paranoid (someone's going to steal my money!) and incredibly forgetful. She had a habit of hiding money, forgetting where she hid it and then demanding it was stolen. Assuming no one has found it (and actually stolen it) ... I bet there are a few thousand scattered here and there through the house.
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Here is a funny story that is not exactly inheritance related.
My grandma died, and we were all helping my Grandpa clean out her stuff. She was a huge clotheshorse. She had certain jeans she loved, so she had 20 identical pairs. She had 10 nearly identical black purses. Etc. Because, you know, Kohls was having a sale. But she grew up SUPER poor, so we all understood why she was like that.
My mom is going through the clothes, filling up like 20 bags with goodwill stuff, and she checks a pocket for some reason, and discovers 100$. And then later she finds another few hundred. And so at this point, we unpack all the bags and check all the pockets in clothes and purses in case there is more.
We found over 10,000$.
My grandpa had no clue any of it existed. From what we could figure out, whenever she had a little extra cash, either from the budget or from selling Mary Kay, or from a holiday, she would stash it. I am sure it started when she was a young, poor housewife, from a dysfunctional family who would not have helped her if she needed it, and this was her emergency stash. But by the time she died, she and my grandpa were worth millions thanks to judicious saving and living frugally.
We used the money to hold a kick ass memorial reception, which she would have loved.
Holy crap! That's incredible!
My mom has a similar, but not quite as badass story, about my great-grandmother. Great-grandma was born in 1904, married young, had grandpa, and divorced her alcoholic husband in 1926 (go, great-grandma!). She was a single mom raising grandpa through the prime-time of the Great Depression, so I can only imagine how tough it was on her. As many of her generation did, throughout the rest of her life she never again trusted the stock market, or most banks, and only took out U.S. Savings Bonds as her means of saving. As she got older and needed to be moved into a retirement home, she called my mom and instructed her to go into her house and remove the center leaf of her dining room table. My mom found what turned out to be approximately $15,000 worth of U.S. Savings Bonds in that table.
We had to take my great aunt's house apart to find a stack of savings bonds worth over $100,000. She knew she put them somewhere safe, but couldn't remember where (small nook in the 2nd bedroom closet).
I would not be surprised to find this at my parents' house. Mom had Alzheimer's. The last few years she was home she was both increasingly paranoid (someone's going to steal my money!) and incredibly forgetful. She had a habit of hiding money, forgetting where she hid it and then demanding it was stolen. Assuming no one has found it (and actually stolen it) ... I bet there are a few thousand scattered here and there through the house.
Yeah, my grandma did the same thing. Except she had 'usual' hiding places, and so 30K disappeared from her accounts in 1K chunks, mysteriously around the time he renovated his kitchen.
Families.
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It is not uncommon for people who remember the Great Depression to bury things in their yard. There has to be millions of dollars of long forgotten wealth lying just a foot or two under the ground.
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It is not uncommon for people who remember the Great Depression to bury things in their yard. There has to be millions of dollars of long forgotten wealth lying just a foot or two under the ground.
Is the 'Side hustles 2016' thread opened yet? Because I just got a great idea...
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Here's a quick pre-inheritance story that is quite "fresh". We were shopping for a truck to tow our already purchased new home (downsizing from 2200sf on 1/2 acre to 350sf, no land)
DH test drove a 2012 1 ton diesel dually. His father called me that day to offer this. Hey you know how I feel about used cars and always buy new? Well were thinking of giving XXX (DH's younger not very well off financially sister) 25k so she can get a different home (they are barely break even on their current one) and the wife and I have agreed to give you guys 25k toward a new truck.
I did some research on that. If my budget is 25k, and I have that saved, DH's dad kicks in his 25k... right? We STILL cannot buy a new truck because they START at 65k... so there ya go. I don't believe in buying new vehicles... EVER. And it rankled me that this man would only gift us this money if we use it one particular way.
My response was an email explaining that a 25k contribution was not enough. That we don't agree with buying a new vehicle. If he wanted to make it fair, he should give us 25k toward a property. (we are selling our clown house to buy another rental and 25k would really help us out).
I am not surprised... I never heard back.
We bought that used truck for 25k the next day. I feel great about what we bought. Even if it needed 10k worth of work it would NEVER, EVER come close to what we would have paid for new, and it does a great job. It is also loaded with options so I bet it would be more like 75k new... ack!
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As an accountant, we have seen some iron clad wills contested until there were few assets left for the heirs. We have seen people fighting over the stupidest things, not because they had value or even sentimental value, just because they did not want the other heirs to have something. Lots of drama in estates. We cringe, when there is big dollars and a weak will or adversarial heirs.
With that being said. My firm learned that a client passed away who had an estate of $50 million plus(1990 dollars). A part that makes it unbelievable is this client almost died in an accident a few years prior and we and his attorney were pleading with him to get a will done. This guy was going to live forever or something. Very savvy businessman who used attorneys on a daily basis, yet he did not have a will.
Added to this was that he was recently remarried within 5 years of his death. He was rich prior to marriage. He brought in 2 young adult children and his new wife brought in two young adult children to their new family. They were probably all all minors upon marriage, and all adults or close to being an adult upon death. Young enough to be stupid, brash and entitled.
So we are told of the tragedy as follows:
Our client and his new wife are in the Bahamas or some amazing place on his 80 foot boat. They are out jet skiing by themselves with no personal flotation devices. He has a heart attack/stroke or something that is not good. She jumps off of her jet ski to try to save him and keep his head above water. They both die!
No will! Who died first? If her kids can prove that he died first. Then all of his assets would go to her. Then if she died 5 minutes later her kids could make a claim that all of his assets or most of his assets should go to them. Who died first?
The partner in charge of this estate was rightfully very worried about how the estate was going to go. Very complicated businesses to run, lots of money, heirs that may feel entitled or that the other potential heirs are not entitled, etc.
How did it go! It went ridiculously well. All of the kids decided to split the estate equally. Minimal drama as they all worked really well to ensure that the businesses were run well. I think both parents raised the kids well. They knew that that their dad loved his new wife, that he loved his new step-kids, and that he would want them to all work well together. The same could be said of his wife's kids.
After seeing/hearing people fighting over the silverware that is not listed in the will. We had a family who was fairly rich, with a new wife, no will, young heirs who handled the estate with respect.
Lots of estate stories out there. The moral of the story, don't have a will. No!!
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As an accountant, we have seen some iron clad wills contested until there were few assets left for the heirs. We have seen people fighting over the stupidest things, not because they had value or even sentimental value, just because they did not want the other heirs to have something. Lots of drama in estates. We cringe, when there is big dollars and a weak will or adversarial heirs.
With that being said. My firm learned that a client passed away who had an estate of $50 million plus(1990 dollars). A part that makes it unbelievable is this client almost died in an accident a few years prior and we and his attorney were pleading with him to get a will done. This guy was going to live forever or something. Very savvy businessman who used attorneys on a daily basis, yet he did not have a will.
Added to this was that he was recently remarried within 5 years of his death. He was rich prior to marriage. He brought in 2 young adult children and his new wife brought in two young adult children to their new family. They were probably all all minors upon marriage, and all adults or close to being an adult upon death. Young enough to be stupid, brash and entitled.
So we are told of the tragedy as follows:
Our client and his new wife are in the Bahamas or some amazing place on his 80 foot boat. They are out jet skiing by themselves with no personal flotation devices. He has a heart attack/stroke or something that is not good. She jumps off of her jet ski to try to save him and keep his head above water. They both die!
No will! Who died first? If her kids can prove that he died first. Then all of his assets would go to her. Then if she died 5 minutes later her kids could make a claim that all of his assets or most of his assets should go to them. Who died first?
The partner in charge of this estate was rightfully very worried about how the estate was going to go. Very complicated businesses to run, lots of money, heirs that may feel entitled or that the other potential heirs are not entitled, etc.
How did it go! It went ridiculously well. All of the kids decided to split the estate equally. Minimal drama as they all worked really well to ensure that the businesses were run well. I think both parents raised the kids well. They knew that that their dad loved his new wife, that he loved his new step-kids, and that he would want them to all work well together. The same could be said of his wife's kids.
After seeing/hearing people fighting over the silverware that is not listed in the will. We had a family who was fairly rich, with a new wife, no will, young heirs who handled the estate with respect.
Lots of estate stories out there. The moral of the story, don't have a will. No!!
This may be the best story on this thread so far.
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As an accountant, we have seen some iron clad wills contested until there were few assets left for the heirs. We have seen people fighting over the stupidest things, not because they had value or even sentimental value, just because they did not want the other heirs to have something. Lots of drama in estates. We cringe, when there is big dollars and a weak will or adversarial heirs.
With that being said. My firm learned that a client passed away who had an estate of $50 million plus(1990 dollars). A part that makes it unbelievable is this client almost died in an accident a few years prior and we and his attorney were pleading with him to get a will done. This guy was going to live forever or something. Very savvy businessman who used attorneys on a daily basis, yet he did not have a will.
Added to this was that he was recently remarried within 5 years of his death. He was rich prior to marriage. He brought in 2 young adult children and his new wife brought in two young adult children to their new family. They were probably all all minors upon marriage, and all adults or close to being an adult upon death. Young enough to be stupid, brash and entitled.
So we are told of the tragedy as follows:
Our client and his new wife are in the Bahamas or some amazing place on his 80 foot boat. They are out jet skiing by themselves with no personal flotation devices. He has a heart attack/stroke or something that is not good. She jumps off of her jet ski to try to save him and keep his head above water. They both die!
No will! Who died first? If her kids can prove that he died first. Then all of his assets would go to her. Then if she died 5 minutes later her kids could make a claim that all of his assets or most of his assets should go to them. Who died first?
The partner in charge of this estate was rightfully very worried about how the estate was going to go. Very complicated businesses to run, lots of money, heirs that may feel entitled or that the other potential heirs are not entitled, etc.
How did it go! It went ridiculously well. All of the kids decided to split the estate equally. Minimal drama as they all worked really well to ensure that the businesses were run well. I think both parents raised the kids well. They knew that that their dad loved his new wife, that he loved his new step-kids, and that he would want them to all work well together. The same could be said of his wife's kids.
After seeing/hearing people fighting over the silverware that is not listed in the will. We had a family who was fairly rich, with a new wife, no will, young heirs who handled the estate with respect.
Lots of estate stories out there. The moral of the story, don't have a will. No!!
I believe that there's a rule to the effect of if an heir dies within a certain amount of time after the deceased, they would not collect as they normally would under the will. Or perhaps it's only for intestate individuals? Any wills and estates attorneys on here, let me know if I'm remembering that correctly. I remember hearing something about it bar prep, but haven't done any wills and estates work. I thought it was something like if husband and wife both get in a car accident and husband dies, and then wife dies within 48 hours, wife's heirs would not inherit pursuant to his will.
Not that that's relevant to your story since it worked out well, but just food for thought!
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Here is a funny story that is not exactly inheritance related.
My grandma died, and we were all helping my Grandpa clean out her stuff. She was a huge clotheshorse. She had certain jeans she loved, so she had 20 identical pairs. She had 10 nearly identical black purses. Etc. Because, you know, Kohls was having a sale. But she grew up SUPER poor, so we all understood why she was like that.
My mom is going through the clothes, filling up like 20 bags with goodwill stuff, and she checks a pocket for some reason, and discovers 100$. And then later she finds another few hundred. And so at this point, we unpack all the bags and check all the pockets in clothes and purses in case there is more.
We found over 10,000$.
My grandpa had no clue any of it existed. From what we could figure out, whenever she had a little extra cash, either from the budget or from selling Mary Kay, or from a holiday, she would stash it. I am sure it started when she was a young, poor housewife, from a dysfunctional family who would not have helped her if she needed it, and this was her emergency stash. But by the time she died, she and my grandpa were worth millions thanks to judicious saving and living frugally.
We used the money to hold a kick ass memorial reception, which she would have loved.
Ha ha - DHs grandma was like that. My SIL went through all her clothes after she passed away at 96 and found lots of cash in various pockets. And also found some of my DD's baby clothes from when we were living with her. She used to stash away her favourite dresses and pull them out a year or three later (after DD had outgrown it of course!). It was too funny!! (Good thing all DD's gorgeous dresses were $1-$5 apiece from yard sales!)
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We're working through a "but X needs it more" situation at present, but with a slight twist.
DW's parents are both still with us, but they're doing some estate planning and DW, being the financially stable sibling, has been included in the conversation. My BIL is a walking financial disaster. Good guy, but some poor career decisions, bankruptcy, divorce, and a tendency to spend on things because he "deserves" them have all taken their toll. He and his young son have now moved back "home" with the in-laws. He has an OK job, but is basically living paycheck to paycheck. Anyway... the in-laws have come to the conclusion that they have assisted BIL more than DW, and want to correct that going forward. They are obsessed with making all financial things "even."
Our argument to them is - BIL needs it more. We don't need their money. We're FI. We have everything we want and need. If the in-laws aren't going to spend the money on themselves, then they should give it to BIL. If you don't give BIL enough money to correct his situation (set aside the debate as to whether or not he actually WOULD use it for that...) then his financial care falls on us when the in-laws are gone. Despite our frustrations with some of BIL's decisions, we're not so cold hearted that we're going to allow a sibling and nephew to live in poverty. We would prefer that my in-laws give him the money, and that way we're left out of it. Unfortunately the in-laws see it differently, and care of my BIL and nephew is going to fall squarely on our shoulders after they pass.
If you'll be stuck looking after BIL and nephew no matter what, take however much your ILs want to give you to make things "even", then use that cash as bailout money when BIL/nephew need it. As you observed, just because they receive enough to correct their situation doesn't mean the money will be used for that. If the inheritance money gets doled out by you and DH you can at least be sure it's spent keeping them out of poverty, instead of six months of really awesome purchases he "deserves", then back at your door holding a hand out (which you'll be filling with your own hard-earned money.)
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And you all make me so glad that my family, for all it's faults, is made of mostly reasonable people.
The only drama that I know of after my Grandpa died was due to my Uncle, one of 4 kids, who was given an additional inheritance. There were 2 policies, and he was sole benificiary for one, while the other was evenly split between all 4 kids. The one protesting? The uncle in question, as he thought it was unfair to the others.
Turns out my Grandpa had done it intentionally, and had informed the other 3 siblings at the time of doing the paperwork. Uncle lived in the family home, which he had bought (all above board) from Grandpa, and had fixed it up, including converting part of the 1st floor into a bed/bath. He took years off from having any kind of steady job to take care of Grandpa as his health and mind deteriorated (dementia, driven in part by health issues). The other 'kids' were completely supportive of this action of Grandpa's, and insisted that Uncle take the money.
My brother and I have already started 'diving things up'- we've agreed that he gets picture X and I get painting Y. That's pretty much it. Forget any money- we want them to spend that on themselves. My parents are amused by our antics. When I was 22, they updated their will, and told me I was the executor. As executor, I would have to create a trust for myself if I was under 25 due to some insurance/pension/tax reason (?). And, as the executor creating the trust for myself, I was to name myself the trustee. Thankfully, I will not have to deal with that.
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I would not be surprised to find this at my parents' house. Mom had Alzheimer's. The last few years she was home she was both increasingly paranoid (someone's going to steal my money!) and incredibly forgetful. She had a habit of hiding money, forgetting where she hid it and then demanding it was stolen. Assuming no one has found it (and actually stolen it) ... I bet there are a few thousand scattered here and there through the house.
My ex-husband's grandfather was like this before we found nursing home care for him. He used to ring the police saying his car had been stolen, someone had taken all his money or equally interesting stories. Small country town where everyone knew everyone, so the cops would ring me and I'd have to go looking for the location of where he had driven the car and then forgotten, and walked home. Yes, I tried to get his licence and car taken off him, but the police, the rest of the family and his health carers all said "he will be lost without it". Until the day he drove it into an (empty) pram beside a cafe...
When he died his 3 daughters wanted everything split equally, so they spent quite a bit of time making sure that happened. Right down to the antique encyclopaedia set that used to take pride of place above the fireplace. "Beth gets A-H, Jean, you take I-O and I'll have the rest..." Not even joking.
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Mom and Daddy are still alive. But were they to get hit by a low flying flamingo tomorrow, my older brother and I would inherit everything equally. They only difference is that I get my share upfront, while his is put in a trust with me as the executor. I told Daddy that my brother wouldn't be the rock I carry around my neck for the rest of my life, and that I would be releasing his money to him asap. The less I have to do with my sibling, the better.
Daddy shrugged, told me he would dead so he wouldn't care, then told me not to be bitter. Then he went on an hour long diatribe about what a mess my brother is, and how Daddy cried over him. I'm not the bitter one.
Holy crap. Are you my clone?
The only difference between your situation and mine is that my particular messed-up sibling happens to be younger than me.
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Mom and Daddy are still alive. But were they to get hit by a low flying flamingo tomorrow, my older brother and I would inherit everything equally. They only difference is that I get my share upfront, while his is put in a trust with me as the executor. I told Daddy that my brother wouldn't be the rock I carry around my neck for the rest of my life, and that I would be releasing his money to him asap. The less I have to do with my sibling, the better.
Daddy shrugged, told me he would dead so he wouldn't care, then told me not to be bitter. Then he went on an hour long diatribe about what a mess my brother is, and how Daddy cried over him. I'm not the bitter one.
Holy crap. Are you my clone?
The only difference between your situation and mine is that my particular messed-up sibling happens to be younger than me.
My brother is almost 10 years older than me. He's a ne'er do well. I got horror stories. Last time I saw the guy I was 20, maybe 21. He told me I was ugly and fat. I'm 5'6" and at the time I weighed around 115. That was when I realized he was sick and I didn't need that negativity in my life.
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I would not be surprised to find this at my parents' house. Mom had Alzheimer's. The last few years she was home she was both increasingly paranoid (someone's going to steal my money!) and incredibly forgetful. She had a habit of hiding money, forgetting where she hid it and then demanding it was stolen. Assuming no one has found it (and actually stolen it) ... I bet there are a few thousand scattered here and there through the house.
My ex-husband's grandfather was like this before we found nursing home care for him. He used to ring the police saying his car had been stolen, someone had taken all his money or equally interesting stories. Small country town where everyone knew everyone, so the cops would ring me and I'd have to go looking for the location of where he had driven the car and then forgotten, and walked home. Yes, I tried to get his licence and car taken off him, but the police, the rest of the family and his health carers all said "he will be lost without it". Until the day he drove it into an (empty) pram beside a cafe...
When he died his 3 daughters wanted everything split equally, so they spent quite a bit of time making sure that happened. Right down to the antique encyclopaedia set that used to take pride of place above the fireplace. "Beth gets A-H, Jean, you take I-O and I'll have the rest..." Not even joking.
Regarding the car... We had the same problem. It would come home with new dents on it every week. I followed her once and she nearly had multiple collisions (one near collision would have been head on at 45 mph). Hiding the keys did nothing. She would always dig up some spare set. One day I took her car to an alarm shop in town and said "I'll give you $50 if you can put a hidden kill switch under the dash in about an hour." Just adding a secret button you had to press to start the car pretty much fixed that.
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I believe that there's a rule to the effect of if an heir dies within a certain amount of time after the deceased, they would not collect as they normally would under the will. Or perhaps it's only for intestate individuals? Any wills and estates attorneys on here, let me know if I'm remembering that correctly. I remember hearing something about it bar prep, but haven't done any wills and estates work. I thought it was something like if husband and wife both get in a car accident and husband dies, and then wife dies within 48 hours, wife's heirs would not inherit pursuant to his will.
Not that that's relevant to your story since it worked out well, but just food for thought!
I don't deal with estates and I would think that would be the logical answer. The concern, was that the kids and their attorneys had $50 million+ reasons to make an argument that they were entitled to more or the other kids were entitled to less. Without a will, nothing was spelled out. There most likely was a prenup as well just to make it more exciting. I recall this estate, because of the size complexity and how diplomatic the kids were in resolving it in a manner that was fair to all.
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We're working through a "but X needs it more" situation at present, but with a slight twist.
DW's parents are both still with us, but they're doing some estate planning and DW, being the financially stable sibling, has been included in the conversation. My BIL is a walking financial disaster. Good guy, but some poor career decisions, bankruptcy, divorce, and a tendency to spend on things because he "deserves" them have all taken their toll. He and his young son have now moved back "home" with the in-laws. He has an OK job, but is basically living paycheck to paycheck. Anyway... the in-laws have come to the conclusion that they have assisted BIL more than DW, and want to correct that going forward. They are obsessed with making all financial things "even."
Our argument to them is - BIL needs it more. We don't need their money. We're FI. We have everything we want and need. If the in-laws aren't going to spend the money on themselves, then they should give it to BIL. If you don't give BIL enough money to correct his situation (set aside the debate as to whether or not he actually WOULD use it for that...) then his financial care falls on us when the in-laws are gone. Despite our frustrations with some of BIL's decisions, we're not so cold hearted that we're going to allow a sibling and nephew to live in poverty. We would prefer that my in-laws give him the money, and that way we're left out of it. Unfortunately the in-laws see it differently, and care of my BIL and nephew is going to fall squarely on our shoulders after they pass.
Racer, if you do get that money, perhaps set it aside to be used to help your brother? You can make that as formal or informal as you'd like.
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We're working through a "but X needs it more" situation at present, but with a slight twist.
DW's parents are both still with us, but they're doing some estate planning and DW, being the financially stable sibling, has been included in the conversation. My BIL is a walking financial disaster. Good guy, but some poor career decisions, bankruptcy, divorce, and a tendency to spend on things because he "deserves" them have all taken their toll. He and his young son have now moved back "home" with the in-laws. He has an OK job, but is basically living paycheck to paycheck. Anyway... the in-laws have come to the conclusion that they have assisted BIL more than DW, and want to correct that going forward. They are obsessed with making all financial things "even."
Our argument to them is - BIL needs it more. We don't need their money. We're FI. We have everything we want and need. If the in-laws aren't going to spend the money on themselves, then they should give it to BIL. If you don't give BIL enough money to correct his situation (set aside the debate as to whether or not he actually WOULD use it for that...) then his financial care falls on us when the in-laws are gone. Despite our frustrations with some of BIL's decisions, we're not so cold hearted that we're going to allow a sibling and nephew to live in poverty. We would prefer that my in-laws give him the money, and that way we're left out of it. Unfortunately the in-laws see it differently, and care of my BIL and nephew is going to fall squarely on our shoulders after they pass.
Racer, if you do get that money, perhaps set it aside to be used to help your brother? You can make that as formal or informal as you'd like.
Best to find a way to dodge the long-term personal responsibility, and I'm not speaking solely as a skiver. It's true I'm a slightly lazy version of evil incarnate, but there's more to my position than just my instinctive non-donation of rodent tush.
When it comes to genuine need, I've seen siblings take on the responsibility for caring for a developmentally delayed or less able brother or sister after the parents pass away. It's a huge commitment, roughly on par with accepting caregiving responsibility for a sick or aging parent or spouse, and it becomes more physically difficult over time as the needy child becomes physically larger or (in some cases) more needy as his or her disease progresses, while the caregiver's strength declines with age. The arrangement can work out well if the person in need doesn't have the type of need that expands to consume, and then exceed, all available resources. Also, it's vital that the sibling accepting the caregiving duties has the skills and resources to care for that individual and still meet his or her other commitments to work, kids, etc. There are some families where people willingly scale back their other commitments in anticipation of caring for someone else long-term, but I've also seen it destroy marriages and eat up the childhoods of kids who don't get to be kids. Having a high-needs individual definitely loads up the lifeboat, makes the family more vulnerable in difficult times, and reduces the pool of available time, energy, or resources available for other things or people. That doesn't mean it isn't worth doing... it just has to be planned intelligently and not taken on lightly.
But that's not what I think Racer is talking about. I don't think what Racer is talking about is a situation of genuine need.
Racer's talking about a basically able-bodied adult of what appears to be normal intelligence, who has a higher "need" for money due to past lifestyle decisions, and whose need is very likely to continue because the pattern of lifestyle decisions shows no sign of changing. That's not sustainable no matter who he or she gets dumped on, because the "need" expands to consume all the available resources since the spender simply cannot or will not self-regulate. It's nearly impossible to manage someone like that when they've got a peer relationship with you. A trust company, at least, can turn off the tap without massive social consequences.
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We're working through a "but X needs it more" situation at present, but with a slight twist.
DW's parents are both still with us, but they're doing some estate planning and DW, being the financially stable sibling, has been included in the conversation. My BIL is a walking financial disaster. Good guy, but some poor career decisions, bankruptcy, divorce, and a tendency to spend on things because he "deserves" them have all taken their toll. He and his young son have now moved back "home" with the in-laws. He has an OK job, but is basically living paycheck to paycheck. Anyway... the in-laws have come to the conclusion that they have assisted BIL more than DW, and want to correct that going forward. They are obsessed with making all financial things "even."
Our argument to them is - BIL needs it more. We don't need their money. We're FI. We have everything we want and need. If the in-laws aren't going to spend the money on themselves, then they should give it to BIL. If you don't give BIL enough money to correct his situation (set aside the debate as to whether or not he actually WOULD use it for that...) then his financial care falls on us when the in-laws are gone. Despite our frustrations with some of BIL's decisions, we're not so cold hearted that we're going to allow a sibling and nephew to live in poverty. We would prefer that my in-laws give him the money, and that way we're left out of it. Unfortunately the in-laws see it differently, and care of my BIL and nephew is going to fall squarely on our shoulders after they pass.
Racer, if you do get that money, perhaps set it aside to be used to help your brother? You can make that as formal or informal as you'd like.
Yeah. We'll spoil the crap out of our nephew, I'm sure. I didn't work hard for FI not to be the cool uncle. I don't know where DW is going to land on helping her brother, however. Some days you really feel sorry for the guy. Others you hear him complain about not having any money despite having lived at "home" (at the age of 43!) for 10 of the past 12 years, and having just purchased a brand new 4x4 truck. I mean, to not having any savings after that? I'd have to consciously TRY to waste that much money. What's become sort of the ultimate irony, is that every time we go to visit, he gives ME old hand me down clothes and tools. So I'm walking around all FI in my broke-ass BIL's hand me down sweatshirts. It's a crazy world.
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Just a note onl the "who dies first" thng and wills:
I was talking about this issue to my sister in law who works for the medical examiner in her county. She said that, in a situation of multiple deaths in a car accident "the person I walk up to first, died first" and thats that.
I guess the lesson here is that IF time of death matters, you might want to challenge your local authorities' decisions.
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Regarding Economic Outpatient Care, I can see how it develops.
I have a kid with ASD and a neurotypical kid. We are already spending more resources on the ASD kid (private therapy lessons, etc) because he needs it more. Life will probably be harder for him as an adult because he lacks certain skills that DD has. At some point he will hopefully stand on his own two feet and manage his own life, but I can see how after 20 years of helping him along, it will be hard to transition to letting him navigate life on his own.
I see it mirrored somewhat in my H and his sister. His sister had/has ADHD as a child, and they tried medicating her but it did not work. As a child she got some special treatment because school was a lot harder for her. This is somewhat justified (see above comments about spending more on my own son) but MIL never transitioned to expecting more from SIL. And now at age 38, if MIL suddenly yanked all support, it would be a disaster, because she never let SIL fail while the stakes were lower.
MIL tried to pull the "you have to help SIL out once I am gone" on H, and he shut it down quick by telling her he would be ahppy to help her set up a trust for SIL. That is not what MIL meant, lol, so she dropped it. SIL is inheriting a considerably more valuable house than us (most of MIL's assets are houses that she rents out) because she "needs it more". Consensus is that she will not be able to pay the property taxes on the expensive house- once again MIL is doing her no favors by "helping" her. I don't care that SIL will get more*, I just hate that it will all be wasted. Oh well.
*most of the time I don't care. Sometimes I get really pissed on DH's behalf that his mother gives SIL 90% of her time and 60-70% of her resources.
Regarding your kids: My aunt and uncle have 3 autistic sons who now are in their 20's and all live in different forms of supervised housing situations. In in a group setting, one right down the road from them (so they check over all the time) and one still in a school/training place. It really depends where on the spectrum they fall, but I think the critical time for transition is the early 20's. There's a lot of programs and centers out there to help transition people to semi-independent living, which then helps the parents transition to expecting a bit more out of their kids. However, they don't have any neurotypical kids so there's no worries about things being "fair". If it helps, my dad always told us growing up that "fair and even aren't always the same thing". This usually applied to one of us getting a bigger cookie than the other, etc...but it also applied to them paying for college but it being different amounts depending on where we attended.
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Here's my drama--played out over the last few months.
When my grandfather died about 5 years ago, he left verbal instructions with my mother to shell out $160K of his money to the grandkids ($40K each for 4 of us.) Well, my sister and I are fine but my two brother are financial dolts so instead of giving us the money my mom wrote these instructions into her will. But then she proceeded to hand some of it out--$34K for renovations for brother #3's house, $40K worth of grandpa's real estate for sister, about $2K a month to brother #2 who lives in a big city and him and wife can't support themselves. Me? Nothing. (Too independent apparently.)
My mom passed away in December and there staring my dad in the face of her will is this legal instruction to shell out $160K of their money to the four of us on her passing. Well, holy shitballs--there's no money left in the account! I was just generally disgusted that it wasn't given to us in the first place. In order to get the will properly out of probate, dad had to settle with everyone. He had to get my big city leech brother to sign saying he got his, sister to sign she'd gotten the properly in lieu, and renovation brother to sign that he'd gotten $34K. He then took out a line of credit to pay off me and the rest to the one brother. I was miserable about the whole thing--I didn't want "his" money.
So: Never will specific amounts to other people when you're married and your account doesn't have the money upon your death.
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A lot of that mess is her estate lawyer's fault. When I did my will my lawyer told me to put NOTHING in dollar values, have it all as percentages. I figured out dollar values for certain charities and converted that to % of my net worth, and that is what went into the will. He advised that I do that for exactly this reason - specific values are dangerous.
I admire your father, he is very honest and upright, following your mother's wishes so well.
Here's my drama--played out over the last few months.
So: Never will specific amounts to other people when you're married and your account doesn't have the money upon your death.
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Here is a funny story that is not exactly inheritance related.
My grandma died, and we were all helping my Grandpa clean out her stuff. She was a huge clotheshorse. She had certain jeans she loved, so she had 20 identical pairs. She had 10 nearly identical black purses. Etc. Because, you know, Kohls was having a sale. But she grew up SUPER poor, so we all understood why she was like that.
My mom is going through the clothes, filling up like 20 bags with goodwill stuff, and she checks a pocket for some reason, and discovers 100$. And then later she finds another few hundred. And so at this point, we unpack all the bags and check all the pockets in clothes and purses in case there is more.
We found over 10,000$.
My grandpa had no clue any of it existed. From what we could figure out, whenever she had a little extra cash, either from the budget or from selling Mary Kay, or from a holiday, she would stash it. I am sure it started when she was a young, poor housewife, from a dysfunctional family who would not have helped her if she needed it, and this was her emergency stash. But by the time she died, she and my grandpa were worth millions thanks to judicious saving and living frugally.
We used the money to hold a kick ass memorial reception, which she would have loved.
I love how you used the money!
We had a similar situation...
After my grandma had stroke, all of her jewelry suddenly went missing including her wedding ring. She had lots of nice jewelry too. We had no idea if it was taken or she'd hidden it or what but lots of nurses and therapists had been in the house as she was getting in home care, plus grandpa had done some renovations, so lots of strangers around. And grandma couldn't really talk after her stroke...
Afte months of having no idea what happened to all of her jewelry, one day grandpa pulled a blanket out of the bedroom closet and all of her jewelry came flying out from the folds of the blanket. Grandma was apparently nervous someone would try to steal it. Oh grandma. 😀
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Here is a funny story that is not exactly inheritance related.
My grandma died, and we were all helping my Grandpa clean out her stuff. She was a huge clotheshorse. She had certain jeans she loved, so she had 20 identical pairs. She had 10 nearly identical black purses. Etc. Because, you know, Kohls was having a sale. But she grew up SUPER poor, so we all understood why she was like that.
My mom is going through the clothes, filling up like 20 bags with goodwill stuff, and she checks a pocket for some reason, and discovers 100$. And then later she finds another few hundred. And so at this point, we unpack all the bags and check all the pockets in clothes and purses in case there is more.
We found over 10,000$.
My grandpa had no clue any of it existed. From what we could figure out, whenever she had a little extra cash, either from the budget or from selling Mary Kay, or from a holiday, she would stash it. I am sure it started when she was a young, poor housewife, from a dysfunctional family who would not have helped her if she needed it, and this was her emergency stash. But by the time she died, she and my grandpa were worth millions thanks to judicious saving and living frugally.
We used the money to hold a kick ass memorial reception, which she would have loved.
I love how you used the money!
We had a similar situation...
After my grandma had stroke, all of her jewelry suddenly went missing including her wedding ring. She had lots of nice jewelry too. We had no idea if it was taken or she'd hidden it or what but lots of nurses and therapists had been in the house as she was getting in home care, plus grandpa had done some renovations, so lots of strangers around. And grandma couldn't really talk after her stroke...
Afte months of having no idea what happened to all of her jewelry, one day grandpa pulled a blanket out of the bedroom closet and all of her jewelry came flying out from the folds of the blanket. Grandma was apparently nervous someone would try to steal it. Oh grandma. 😀
LOL! Both of these are great stories. They make me so happy!
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He then took out a line of credit to pay off me and the rest to the one brother.
What a mess. Will he take back the $40k to pay off the LOC, now that everything in the will is settled? He might protest if you offer it as a gift but you could always tell him to leave it to you in his own will (if his estate has it; at least by then he'll have no use for it) or call it a loan (whether you charge interest or ever collect on it - meh.) Will a bank accept a payment on a LOC if the payment isn't made by the debt holder?
At least there was no nasty family fighting (that you mentioned), but it's awful your father lost his wife and simultaneously needed to cough up almost $50k that he didn't just have lying around (and now has interest expense he has to pay.)
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We were at a small family party last week, or two weeks ago, I think there were only 7 cousins there, and we were talking about how weird it was that a lot of folks we know don't hang out and have fun with their families. Then my cousin had the point: We were the weird ones.
The other day my wife was like oh it's so good of you that you don't mind if my mom stays with us, all my friends can't stand their in-laws and could never live together, and I was like, ah, but how annoying are they? And she said "oh that's a good point."
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The thing I don't understand is how parents can be so obtuse with these things. Can they not see the emotional damage they are wreaking? I love what my mom and stepfather have done: with my mom's two and my stepfather's three kids, they have said that they plan to split everything 5 ways. Plain and simple. If one goes before the other, I guess that could potentially change, but given who they are, how they live, and how generous and kind they are, I doubt it. And if so, so what? We are all grown ups and don't "deserve" anything.
I think most people do, but they rationalise it away as one son being emotionally hurt as a lesser evil than their other son actually starving/becoming homeless in retirement. Even when the starvation/homelessness/whatever is entirely self-inflicted.
In the Millionaire Next Door books the author talks about how wealthy parents can inadvertantly 'weaken' one child with what he called 'economic outpatient care'. EOC involved subsidising the child's lifestyle and perversely rewarding their bad behaviour.
This is it right here. People are irrational, but want to sound rational.
My mom was the same way. You know, I have an older sis and a younger brother. We chose different paths. We are a blue collar family. Sister got a job out of HS for an insurance company, and is the office manager. Her husband was in manual labor. Her son is a diesel truck mechanic (he's early 20s).
My brother spent a few years in the Air Force out of HS, then worked at the same manual labor job as my BIL, then drove trucks for awhile (went to school for free but didn't like the company that paid for it, quit, and had to pay them back). Now he's a prison guard. His wife has a degree, sold cell phones for 20 years, and now works at a bank.
I went to college on ROTC scholarship (mostly) and am an engineer. First in the family to go to college out of HS.
Mom/ step-dad's will splits everything 3 ways. Mom never had much money after the divorce, but step-dad is frugal and is worth about $0.5M, a lot in my dinky home town. He also has SS and a pension. (Mom died 4 years ago.)
However, there has been a lot of economic outpatient care. For my sister, it's emergencies only, and only once or twice. They bought a mobile home, put it on land given to them as a wedding gift, and paid it off in 11 years. For my brother, well, they like to spend money. SIL spends on clothing and toys for the girls. A LOT of them. She was driving 20k miles a year to work and to shop, easily. She ate out constantly. And don't get me started on the 9 cars in 5 years (mostly used, but still). My mother was guilted (you know, the divorce and all, she abandoned her baby...he was 14) into paying for all these "things" they couldn't afford. (My SIL was making $65k per year and the mortgage payment was $500 a month).
My mom had a home equity loan that my brother used. Then my niece needed braces. Guess who paid for that. When brother asked for $5000 for central air, mom laughed and said "if I had money for central air I'd put it in my own house!"
Now that mom is gone, step dad is mostly ignored by that family, unless they need emergency babysitting. Nevermind bringing him dinner (he has had many surgeries). Or saying hi. Just "here are the girls" and half the time they don't feed them before they get dropped off. My sister and her husband do a lot for him. I'm 3000 miles away.
For awhile, my mom would write me a check if she gave money to the others. She really wanted to be "fair", even if it wasn't "fair". She once bragged about how she gave everyone the same amount of money for their weddings. I said "mom, seriously, you paid for my sister and my brother's hotel room at my wedding. That is NOT paying for my wedding!" I didn't care, but she rationalized it all the same.
Thing is, it REALLY bothered my sister. A lot. My sister and her hubby probably made $60k combined. My brother and his wife were probably at $90k for awhile, though they are probably a bit higher now. We make at least 2x that and I DON'T CARE. I don't need the money. Sis was especially upset that my mom started college funds for all 3 grandchildren...but not my kid. Because "you don't need it".
My step-dad definitely prefers to be more fair. And I tell him I don't care. In fact, I tell him to spend it!
Sorry that was long, but people WANT to be fair and rational, so they tell themselves many things...
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He then took out a line of credit to pay off me and the rest to the one brother.
What a mess. Will he take back the $40k to pay off the LOC, now that everything in the will is settled? He might protest if you offer it as a gift but you could always tell him to leave it to you in his own will (if his estate has it; at least by then he'll have no use for it) or call it a loan (whether you charge interest or ever collect on it - meh.) Will a bank accept a payment on a LOC if the payment isn't made by the debt holder?
At least there was no nasty family fighting (that you mentioned), but it's awful your father lost his wife and simultaneously needed to cough up almost $50k that he didn't just have lying around (and now has interest expense he has to pay.)
Yep, exactly what happened. Rule here: If you're supposed to give money to your kids from somebody else, do it! Even if 2/4 of them are irresponsible. Don't write a defined amount into your own will instead. Ersh...
I can help out my dad if needed, but my sister said I should not give a huge chunk ever because he'll just give it to the two brothers when they start whining.
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Posting mainly to follow but we have an odd situation.
OH's mum has always given EOC to his brother who's never amounted to much. Nothing as exciting as on here, just bad choices and lack of application. No odds to OH, but I've always been concerned over her enabling him - and OH being expected to continue when she's gone (not from the financial view but from the 'grow up and take responsibility' view (he's 54 btw).
MIL now 92, in early stages of dementia and BIL looking after her at home - and doing a good job of it. Her will (I've seen it) leaves house to BIL and money to OH. I've always felt home should be 50/50 - not because we want it but to stop BIL selling it and frittering (aka drinking/gambling/new hobby) it away. Which I suppose is making me an enabler as well. Could never had suggested this to MIL as she's always had a paranoid fear OH is after her money and doesn't see what she's done is wrong (e.g. She gave him money once as he had to take a week's unpaid leave to sort out his car insurance - seriously, wtf?). We've also found out recently that she has more money than we thought so I suppose if OH des continue the EOC at least he can do it with her money.
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e.g. She gave him money once as he had to take a week's unpaid leave to sort out his car insurance - seriously, wtf?
That sounds to me like code for "got a DUI ticket and had license revoked".
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MIL now 92, in early stages of dementia and BIL looking after her at home - and doing a good job of it. Her will (I've seen it) leaves house to BIL and money to OH.
That could put BIL on the short end of the stick, actually.
Caregiving for an adult with dementia is a brutal full-time job and it can drag on for years. Hopefully he is being compensated for it in a timely fashion instead of having to wait, so that he can take care of his own living and medical expenses. From what you've said he isn't the most financially responsible person, but the fact he's doing in-home caregiving means there's an enormous opportunity cost to him.
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Sort of an inheritance story, although the person wasn't gone yet.
My father was diagnosed with a terminal illness that left him unable to manage his affairs. The state appointed a legal guardian for him. My father owned quite a bit of land, which was the guardian sold to pay for his medical bills. Most of it was sold for a good price, but she sold several parcels at below-market value to a man (call him Al) that, according to the town gossips, was sleeping with her to get what he could.
My father was an eccentric man, and a well-educated hoarder. I spent several breaks sophomore year of college going through a some of his personal property, trying to salvage heirlooms etc. Al comes by the second day I'm there, and tries to convince me to give him permission to search the premises, since 'he knew where my dad would hide the valuable stuff'. I of course say no. A few months later, I get a call from a neighbor that Al has been digging holes on my dad's property, looking for gold. (My dad did have some precious metals, but they were all safe deposit boxes-he was also paranoid about thieves, perhaps because he knew Al?) Every time I talk to anyone in the area, I hear another story about how Al has been seen around my dad's properties, breaking in and/or stealing things.
The clincher-my dad had almost nothing of value outside of his safe-deposit boxes. He had more junk than you can imagine-he spent the last 10+ years of his life going to auctions 3-5x/week, never buying less than a pickup-truck load each time, since 'if you stay til the end, they pretty much give stuff away!' He had multiple properties, some commercial, none of them maintained, where he hoarded this junk. Everyone seemed very concerned about Al's thievery, but honestly, the thought that he was reducing the amount of crap to deal with was wonderful.
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A friend's mom passed away recently and I just got this story from her.
Friend had lived with her mom for about 25 years, mostly supporting Mom in exchange for help raising friend's daughter and general household stuff. Mom got a small SS check that she contributed towards the household but otherwise had no money. Mom's health had been declining over the last few years but she was diagnosed in December with pancreatic cancer. Bro and sis hadn't spent any time (or money) taking care of Mom for the last ten years and friend didn't expect any help from them now.
Friend spent whatever small amount of savings she had buying stuff for her mom that wasn't covered by medicare like a recliner to sleep in the living room because mom couldn't do stairs anymore and couldn't breathe while lying flat. As Mom got sicker friend took a leave from work to take care of her (couldn't afford a caregiver). Her daughter also came over every night and weekend to help.
When it became clear that Mom had hours left to live, bro and sis show up. Bro was actually helpful but sis - who owns four houses, each professionally decorated and landscaped and has a high-powered job - went through friend's house taking things she thought should be hers. Sis was actually screaming at friend about stuff she couldn't find while mom lay in the living room in the hospital bed (from hospice) gasping for air.
I don't even understand how someone could do that...
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A friend's mom passed away recently and I just got this story from her.
Friend had lived with her mom for about 25 years, mostly supporting Mom in exchange for help raising friend's daughter and general household stuff. Mom got a small SS check that she contributed towards the household but otherwise had no money. Mom's health had been declining over the last few years but she was diagnosed in December with pancreatic cancer. Bro and sis hadn't spent any time (or money) taking care of Mom for the last ten years and friend didn't expect any help from them now.
Friend spent whatever small amount of savings she had buying stuff for her mom that wasn't covered by medicare like a recliner to sleep in the living room because mom couldn't do stairs anymore and couldn't breathe while lying flat. As Mom got sicker friend took a leave from work to take care of her (couldn't afford a caregiver). Her daughter also came over every night and weekend to help.
When it became clear that Mom had hours left to live, bro and sis show up. Bro was actually helpful but sis - who owns four houses, each professionally decorated and landscaped and has a high-powered job - went through friend's house taking things she thought should be hers. Sis was actually screaming at friend about stuff she couldn't find while mom lay in the living room in the hospital bed (from hospice) gasping for air.
I don't even understand how someone could do that...
So, one sister was stealing items from the other sister's home? Sorry, but if my sister did that, she'd quickly find herself arrested.
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A friend's mom passed away recently and I just got this story from her.
Friend had lived with her mom for about 25 years, mostly supporting Mom in exchange for help raising friend's daughter and general household stuff. Mom got a small SS check that she contributed towards the household but otherwise had no money. Mom's health had been declining over the last few years but she was diagnosed in December with pancreatic cancer. Bro and sis hadn't spent any time (or money) taking care of Mom for the last ten years and friend didn't expect any help from them now.
Friend spent whatever small amount of savings she had buying stuff for her mom that wasn't covered by medicare like a recliner to sleep in the living room because mom couldn't do stairs anymore and couldn't breathe while lying flat. As Mom got sicker friend took a leave from work to take care of her (couldn't afford a caregiver). Her daughter also came over every night and weekend to help.
When it became clear that Mom had hours left to live, bro and sis show up. Bro was actually helpful but sis - who owns four houses, each professionally decorated and landscaped and has a high-powered job - went through friend's house taking things she thought should be hers. Sis was actually screaming at friend about stuff she couldn't find while mom lay in the living room in the hospital bed (from hospice) gasping for air.
I don't even understand how someone could do that...
So, one sister was stealing items from the other sister's home? Sorry, but if my sister did that, she'd quickly find herself arrested.
I suggested that. She's more of the mindset that letting it all go would be a) what her mom would have wanted, and b) the quickest way to recover her own piece of mind. Unlikely that she'll be speaking to her sister any time soon.
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A friend's mom passed away recently and I just got this story from her.
Friend had lived with her mom for about 25 years, mostly supporting Mom in exchange for help raising friend's daughter and general household stuff. Mom got a small SS check that she contributed towards the household but otherwise had no money. Mom's health had been declining over the last few years but she was diagnosed in December with pancreatic cancer. Bro and sis hadn't spent any time (or money) taking care of Mom for the last ten years and friend didn't expect any help from them now.
Friend spent whatever small amount of savings she had buying stuff for her mom that wasn't covered by medicare like a recliner to sleep in the living room because mom couldn't do stairs anymore and couldn't breathe while lying flat. As Mom got sicker friend took a leave from work to take care of her (couldn't afford a caregiver). Her daughter also came over every night and weekend to help.
When it became clear that Mom had hours left to live, bro and sis show up. Bro was actually helpful but sis - who owns four houses, each professionally decorated and landscaped and has a high-powered job - went through friend's house taking things she thought should be hers. Sis was actually screaming at friend about stuff she couldn't find while mom lay in the living room in the hospital bed (from hospice) gasping for air.
I don't even understand how someone could do that...
So, one sister was stealing items from the other sister's home? Sorry, but if my sister did that, she'd quickly find herself arrested.
I suggested that. She's more of the mindset that letting it all go would be a) what her mom would have wanted, and b) the quickest way to recover her own piece of mind. Unlikely that she'll be speaking to her sister any time soon.
I think that's a very personal choice/mindset.
What everyone always wants is peace of mind to get on with their lives.
For some, that's best achieved through brushing it off, forgiving, and moving on with that person removed from their lives.
For others (like me)... cross the line and we're talking burn-the-bridge, salt-the-earth level policies. And once we're done, I will sleep soundly... but the forgive and forget method just leaves me feeling like that person is gonna come back and get worst until handled appropriately.
Probably a difference in formative years... :)
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For some, that's best achieved through brushing it off, forgiving, and moving on with that person removed from their lives.
For others (like me)... cross the line and we're talking burn-the-bridge, salt-the-earth level policies. And once we're done, I will sleep soundly... but the forgive and forget method just leaves me feeling like that person is gonna come back and get worst until handled appropriately.
Probably a difference in formative years... :)
I like how you know yourself and can speculate on the cause with humor. It's all a bit vindictive, but the the humor makes it more entertaining.
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MIL now 92, in early stages of dementia and BIL looking after her at home - and doing a good job of it. Her will (I've seen it) leaves house to BIL and money to OH.
That could put BIL on the short end of the stick, actually.
Caregiving for an adult with dementia is a brutal full-time job and it can drag on for years. Hopefully he is being compensated for it in a timely fashion instead of having to wait, so that he can take care of his own living and medical expenses. From what you've said he isn't the most financially responsible person, but the fact he's doing in-home caregiving means there's an enormous opportunity cost to him.
He's living rent and board free with her and gets a carers allowance, plus it's UK so no medical costs. I need to look into the pension situation - I think he'll get national insurance contributions credited as he's a carer. He's never had any other pension arrangements and till he moved in with her was poncing off us living rent free in a house we own. With occasional comments from MIL that we should be paying his council tax as well................
I couldn't do it but it's something he wanted to do.
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This thread is amazing...
I propose a weekend retreat with lot's of booze, I want to hear more of these stories!
;)
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It's incredible how awful people can be.
The worst part is when they say "it's mine, I deserve it"
Shut up, you just won the lottery, at least don't act like you had the moral right to.
Personally the only thing I hope is that I inherit whatever it will be as late as possible.
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It's incredible how awful people can be.
The worst part is when they say "it's mine, I deserve it"
Shut up, you just won the lottery, at least don't act like you had the moral right to.
Personally the only thing I hope is that I inherit whatever it will be as late as possible.
Amen to that.
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I met someone at a party years ago whose mother was terminally ill. I offered my condolences, but all she could talk about was what she was going to get when her mother died. After about 10 minutes of listing all the treasures she would gain, she asked if I was going to inherit big too. I just said I'd rather have my Mom, thanks, and walked away. My Mom is 87, and still going strong. I hope she's around for years to come. My Dad died 15 years ago, and I miss him every day.
Vultures! Hate them with a passion.
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Great display of self restraint on your part.
I would have hardly resisted insulting her
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The only "inheritance" drama that we had resulting from my Dad's passing was his fiance getting ticked off and taking a bunch of things. She came over to the house prior to the wake and started taking random things as though we planned to steal them from her (teddy bears, a Christmas ornament, Dad's leather jacket, etc.). The Christmas ornament had some sentimental value to a few of us but replacements were easily bought.
They had only been together a short time and engaged for a few months. We included her as much as possible in planning the funeral, receiving lines, etc. She was MAD that we cancelled the contract on the house Dad was buying for them to move into after the wedding (planned for a year later). Based on some of the things she said to us, it was almost like she was delusional and thought the wedding was still somehow going to take place and they "would have already been married if the Church hadn't made it so difficult." She totally burned her bridges with all of us (and we had barely spent time with her prior to the funeral as we all live a fair distance away) when she was OVER the top with theatrics at the wake and then arguing with us at the funeral meal that her kids DESERVED to take home the leftovers. We gave in on most of her demands that involved "things" and were very glad we dodged the bullet of having her as a step-mom.
When we were prepping for the estate sale (our mom passed 12 years earlier) we had to argue over who was MADE to take some items. :) Things that held sentimental value but none of us saw a real pressing need to have. It was some good natured bickering and everything worked out well. Somehow I became keeper of the photos even though I'm hardly in any of them! I truly appreciate that although we may have had little disagreements during the wrap up phase, we were all committed to the end result of us still being a family and not letting any money/item get in the way of that. We'd seen how it destroyed our Dad's family when siblings did things behind the backs of others.
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When we were prepping for the estate sale (our mom passed 12 years earlier) we had to argue over who was MADE to take some items. :) Things that held sentimental value but none of us saw a real pressing need to have. It was some good natured bickering and everything worked out well. Somehow I became keeper of the photos even though I'm hardly in any of them! I truly appreciate that although we may have had little disagreements during the wrap up phase, we were all committed to the end result of us still being a family and not letting any money/item get in the way of that. We'd seen how it destroyed our Dad's family when siblings did things behind the backs of others.
I see this happening in my future. We're working towards an estate sale and there are quite a few sentimental items that no one really *wants* ... but no one wants to sell.
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I actually just found out about this yesterday.
My parents divorced when I was fairly young and my mom got to keep the house where she lived along with me and my siblings. My dad had a really strong attachment to that house for whatever reason. My mom has always been terrible with money and got herself into a bunch of debt and was behind on the mortgage and in danger of losing the house. My dad stepped in and bought the house from her for a fair price which allowed her to get completely out of debt. My dad died a number of years ago and a few years after buying the house from my mom. My 2 siblings lived in the house for a year or so until we figured out what to do with it. The price of the house had risen quite a bit between the time my dad bought if from my mom and the time my siblings and I sold it. We didn't quite sell at the peak of the market but close enough. We split around $70,000 between the 3 of us. I never spoke with my siblings about what they did with their portion of that money because it wasn't any of my business.
So, my wife has dinner with both siblings spouses yesterday and somehow money and that house comes up. I found out that my mom guilted both of my brothers into handing over a decent sized chunk of their portion from the sale of the house. I was never close with her and I had previously politely declined to co-sign a mortgage with her and her new husband so I think she knew better than to ask me for anything. I think even less of her than I did before. She had already been paid a fair price for that house and she asked for more just because we sold it for more than she did. Since this is such recent information, I'm still digesting it but it isn't sitting right at all. Both siblings have families and I'm sure there were better uses for it than giving it to her. I'm really sick about it.
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Both siblings have families and I'm sure there were better uses for it than giving it to her. I'm really sick about it.
I know it doesn't feel good, but your siblings made the decision that their relationship with Mom was worth that money. That was their decision to make.
You could offer some of your inheritance to them because you feel bad about it, but I don't think second-guessing their decision is going to help matters.
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Both siblings have families and I'm sure there were better uses for it than giving it to her. I'm really sick about it.
I know it doesn't feel good, but your siblings made the decision that their relationship with Mom was worth that money. That was their decision to make.
You could offer some of your inheritance to them because you feel bad about it, but I don't think second-guessing their decision is going to help matters.
^^^^ This. One of the worst things people do is find ways to make other people's problems into their own problems. Second-guessing the decision of another adult is a popular first step.
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When I was in high school, me, dad, and a bunch of extended family all went to my grandparent's house to move them out of it and into senior housing. This was badly needed for them. There was some family taking things home that they wanted. I'm not privy to everything, but there is some bad feelings over this.
At the time, absolutely no one in that family cared about genealogy. So all the old papers, pictures, etc I thought were at risk of being tossed out. My mom does genealogy as a hobby, so I'd grown up with you keep this sort of thing, even though it's not my hobby. So I took every photo album, boxes of pictures, boxes of slides, boxes of old 16mm film, and the slide projector and film projector. There was a TON of it. At the time, I kinda made an announcement at dinner, we were all sitting and eating, and I just told them that I was collecting all that sort of thing and would keep it together and safe. Ok.
Every couple years, someone asks about it, and once again I tell them I grabbed it. Last night, my aunt posts a picture from a few years ago that's the 3 kids, and as a joke I posted one of them and their grandparents from when they were kids. She'd never seen the picture. So I posted another one, taken a year or two later. My aunt facebook im'ed me, asking where I got them. So I told her, I'd scanned some of the pictures in. Honestly, I'd done more cleaning up and sorting of the physical pictures than actual scanning. I sent her all the pictures I have, about 60mg worth.
This family... sheesh. She'll forget again in a month or two, and ask again in a few years.
However, due to the other wackiness in the family - I'm not giving up these items. Sheer spite. I'll send copies, but I'm keeping the originals. No if, ands, or buts. I don't care how much I piss people off - they've earned it. Maybe they should treat my family like a member of the wider family if they don't like it.
Oh, and grandparents died while I was in college. They never knew or cared where the pictures went as far as I know.
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They never knew or cared where the pictures went as far as I know.
You might be describing me. I'm just not very sentimental when it comes to historical stuff that is family related. My parents have a TON of stuff that is saved that they can't seem to part with. Even though they have no idea who are in the pictures, they still can't bear to part with it.
On the other hand I like things spare and clean. I can't stand having gobs of stuff sitting around.
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They never knew or cared where the pictures went as far as I know.
You might be describing me. I'm just not very sentimental when it comes to historical stuff that is family related. My parents have a TON of stuff that is saved that they can't seem to part with. Even though they have no idea who are in the pictures, they still can't bear to part with it.
On the other hand I like things spare and clean. I can't stand having gobs of stuff sitting around.
Yeah, but do you then act all surprised more than 10 years later that someone has photos you don't have and ask for copies? Plus, this isn't a one off. The whole family is like this, and this is actually the good parts. I don't spend a lot of time with this family.
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When I was in high school, me, dad, and a bunch of extended family all went to my grandparent's house to move them out of it and into senior housing. This was badly needed for them. There was some family taking things home that they wanted. I'm not privy to everything, but there is some bad feelings over this.
At the time, absolutely no one in that family cared about genealogy. So all the old papers, pictures, etc I thought were at risk of being tossed out. My mom does genealogy as a hobby, so I'd grown up with you keep this sort of thing, even though it's not my hobby. So I took every photo album, boxes of pictures, boxes of slides, boxes of old 16mm film, and the slide projector and film projector. There was a TON of it. At the time, I kinda made an announcement at dinner, we were all sitting and eating, and I just told them that I was collecting all that sort of thing and would keep it together and safe. Ok.
Every couple years, someone asks about it, and once again I tell them I grabbed it. Last night, my aunt posts a picture from a few years ago that's the 3 kids, and as a joke I posted one of them and their grandparents from when they were kids. She'd never seen the picture. So I posted another one, taken a year or two later. My aunt facebook im'ed me, asking where I got them. So I told her, I'd scanned some of the pictures in. Honestly, I'd done more cleaning up and sorting of the physical pictures than actual scanning. I sent her all the pictures I have, about 60mg worth.
This family... sheesh. She'll forget again in a month or two, and ask again in a few years.
However, due to the other wackiness in the family - I'm not giving up these items. Sheer spite. I'll send copies, but I'm keeping the originals. No if, ands, or buts. I don't care how much I piss people off - they've earned it. Maybe they should treat my family like a member of the wider family if they don't like it.
Oh, and grandparents died while I was in college. They never knew or cared where the pictures went as far as I know.
I scanned every physical picture I had years ago, hardest part was deciding to do it. A computer/scanner/netflix & alcohol are really all you need; insert picture, press button, watch movie for 45sec, remove picture, repeat. So glad I have backups in more than one place now. Once digitized you can send a mass email with a dropbox link.
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I was about to suggest something similar. Scan all the photos / slides, retouch if you want, and burn them to a DVD to share with family members. I can really get into the idea of doing the scanning while drinking. XD
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Well, the last time the pictures were in the same location as me was 10 years ago. They're all at my parents house. Even if I grabbed them, I don't have a scanner currently. I'll get back to it eventually. If nothing else, do plan to get them once I buy a house.
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My grandma used to go to garage sales in the 1940's and 50's and bought a lot of stuff. She had a small Victorian-era house that was crammed full of her finds. She had 3 sons and 5 grandkids in all. She used to proclaim that her stuff was worth a fortune - china, crystal, paintings etc.
Depending who was in her good books, she'd promise various things at various times to the offspring. She'd changed her mind several times over the years as to who got what.
As a result, the offspring fought over it bitterly when she died. My father had a row with my sister because he was insanely jealous that she got the silverware from Harrod's.
Upon inspection and appraisal, all of her stuff was found out to be not what it seemed. Her large "oil" paintings turned out to be gesso reproductions, and a set of silver from Harrod's turned out to be silver plate. The figurines and lamps all had cracks and chips on closer inspection. Even the "good" stuff, bone china service for 12 in Minton and service for 8 in Aynsely, is hardly worth anything these days just because it's fallen out of favour. I have the Aynsely and all I do is pack it up and stress over it, for no reason, each time we move house.
Ahhhh ... family.
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Not precisely inheritance drama, but there is an estate sale involved.
When my grandma passed, my mom and uncle held an estate sale. Everything that looked remotely like somebody might want to buy it spilled out of the house into the front lawn.
My uncle was speaking with a customer discussing the price of a fairly nice looking pottery jar. As he's collecting the cash, my mom walks out of the house. Her eyes bulge and she screams, "You can't sell that!"
"Why not?"
"THAT'S MOM!!!"
Sadly, my uncle passed last year. But there were jovial discussions of selling his ashes at his own estate sale.
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Not precisely inheritance drama, but there is an estate sale involved.
When my grandma passed, my mom and uncle held an estate sale. Everything that looked remotely like somebody might want to buy it spilled out of the house into the front lawn.
My uncle was speaking with a customer discussing the price of a fairly nice looking pottery jar. As he's collecting the cash, my mom walks out of the house. Her eyes bulge and she screams, "You can't sell that!"
"Why not?"
"THAT'S MOM!!!"
Sadly, my uncle passed last year. But there were jovial discussions of selling his ashes at his own estate sale.
Best story!
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Not precisely inheritance drama, but there is an estate sale involved.
When my grandma passed, my mom and uncle held an estate sale. Everything that looked remotely like somebody might want to buy it spilled out of the house into the front lawn.
My uncle was speaking with a customer discussing the price of a fairly nice looking pottery jar. As he's collecting the cash, my mom walks out of the house. Her eyes bulge and she screams, "You can't sell that!"
"Why not?"
"THAT'S MOM!!!"
Sadly, my uncle passed last year. But there were jovial discussions of selling his ashes at his own estate sale.
That is hilarious. And about the level of communication in my family.
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That wins the thread. :D
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hahaha - I hope he got a good price for it at least.
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Don't leave us hanging - did they go through with the sale?
As far as I know, grandma is still with our family.
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I think we've heard a bit of this kinda plot in the thread..
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11622453 (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11622453)
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Here is a funny story that is not exactly inheritance related.
My grandma died, and we were all helping my Grandpa clean out her stuff. She was a huge clotheshorse. She had certain jeans she loved, so she had 20 identical pairs. She had 10 nearly identical black purses. Etc. Because, you know, Kohls was having a sale. But she grew up SUPER poor, so we all understood why she was like that.
My mom is going through the clothes, filling up like 20 bags with goodwill stuff, and she checks a pocket for some reason, and discovers 100$. And then later she finds another few hundred. And so at this point, we unpack all the bags and check all the pockets in clothes and purses in case there is more.
We found over 10,000$.
My grandpa had no clue any of it existed. From what we could figure out, whenever she had a little extra cash, either from the budget or from selling Mary Kay, or from a holiday, she would stash it. I am sure it started when she was a young, poor housewife, from a dysfunctional family who would not have helped her if she needed it, and this was her emergency stash. But by the time she died, she and my grandpa were worth millions thanks to judicious saving and living frugally.
We used the money to hold a kick ass memorial reception, which she would have loved.
I love how you used the money!
We had a similar situation...
After my grandma had stroke, all of her jewelry suddenly went missing including her wedding ring. She had lots of nice jewelry too. We had no idea if it was taken or she'd hidden it or what but lots of nurses and therapists had been in the house as she was getting in home care, plus grandpa had done some renovations, so lots of strangers around. And grandma couldn't really talk after her stroke...
Afte months of having no idea what happened to all of her jewelry, one day grandpa pulled a blanket out of the bedroom closet and all of her jewelry came flying out from the folds of the blanket. Grandma was apparently nervous someone would try to steal it. Oh grandma. 😀
LOL! Both of these are great stories. They make me so happy!
After my FIL died, we realized DH's mom had what turned out to be Alzheimer's. They had two homes, so we cleaned out their weekend home first. I noticed a nightstand had some grossness dribbled down one side, so I moved it to clean it up. Found a pouch full of cash underneath. Later, found more cash in the linen closet. On day two of the Estate Sale, I moved a lamp and found a couple hundred more underneath. God knows how much we missed, but what we found came to about $11 grand, plus we made about $2.5k more on the estate sale. They were huge garage salers, so we probably got back as much as they spent to furnish the house.
True story: they used to take the train to this house. They'd walk to the grocery store across from the train station and then walk the mile or so to the house. People were always offering to buy them groceries. Yes, there was a car in the garage of their nice 1800 sf weekend house, and clearly plenty of mobey, but they looked poor, so people made assumptions. My MIL is still alive, and her estate is worth about 2.5 million. Crazy.
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After my FIL died, we realized DH's mom had what turned out to be Alzheimer's. They had two homes, so we cleaned out their weekend home first. I noticed a nightstand had some grossness dribbled down one side, so I moved it to clean it up. Found a pouch full of cash underneath. Later, found more cash in the linen closet. On day two of the Estate Sale, I moved a lamp and found a couple hundred more underneath. God knows how much we missed, but what we found came to about $11 grand, plus we made about $2.5k more on the estate sale. They were huge garage salers, so we probably got back as much as they spent to furnish the house.
True story: they used to take the train to this house. They'd walk to the grocery store across from the train station and then walk the mile or so to the house. People were always offering to buy them groceries. Yes, there was a car in the garage of their nice 1800 sf weekend house, and clearly plenty of mobey, but they looked poor, so people made assumptions. My MIL is still alive, and her estate is worth about 2.5 million. Crazy.
Ha! I aspire to be that kind of old lady. I would probably hide three lockboxes with money over the house and label them 1, 2 and 4. Then laugh my spectral ass off when I haunt the house and see people going nuts to find box #3.
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A family friend had two children. One child had one kid, the other had seven. What is the fair way to divide up an estate among this brood? Equal shares for all of the grandkids hardly seems right, Child A's descendants would only get 1/8 of the total.
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A family friend had two children. One child had one kid, the other had seven. What is the fair way to divide up an estate among this brood? Equal shares for all of the grandkids hardly seems right, Child A's descendants would only get 1/8 of the total.
How about something in the middle? Child A gets 37%, Child B gets 37%, and the grandkids each get their share of 24% (3% each). Then when Child A dies, grandkid gets 37% (40% total) while when child B dies, each kid ends up with just under 9%, or 60% total.
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A family friend had two children. One child had one kid, the other had seven. What is the fair way to divide up an estate among this brood? Equal shares for all of the grandkids hardly seems right, Child A's descendants would only get 1/8 of the total.
I think states follow two main schools of thought if someone dies intestate (with no will) and a spouse is not inheriting/has predeceased.
1. Divide the money at the first generation (each sibling gets 1/2, they can pass their 1/2 on to kids, giving grandkid of A 1/2 the estate and grandkids of B 1/14 each, or not).
2. Focus on ultimate number of lineal descendants (here, 8) and divide accordingly.
Why would the family be focusing on grand kids and not just giving to the two children?
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A family friend had two children. One child had one kid, the other had seven. What is the fair way to divide up an estate among this brood? Equal shares for all of the grandkids hardly seems right, Child A's descendants would only get 1/8 of the total.
I think states follow two main schools of thought if someone dies intestate (with no will) and a spouse is not inheriting/has predeceased.
1. Divide the money at the first generation (each sibling gets 1/2, they can pass their 1/2 on to kids, giving grandkid of A 1/2 the estate and grandkids of B 1/14 each, or not).
2. Focus on ultimate number of lineal descendants (here, 8) and divide accordingly.
Why would the family be focusing on grand kids and not just giving to the two children?
Typically, children are well into middle age or nearing retirement themselves, and "need" it less than grandchildren (obviously this varies greatly by families). Receiving, say, $50,000 at 55 vs 25 is completely different. That's why many choose to partially or entirely skip a generation.
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True. When my grandma died, my mom didn't need or want the land she inherited so she passed her share to my brother and me. Sometimes it just makes more sense to skip a generation.
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No clue if there will be drama, but my DH got a letter yesterday that he's an heir. His grandmother's sister (and her husband) had a son who was mentally disabled (very sweet, but none too bright), so when they died, all their money and property went into a trust. That trust has been humming along for decades, but the son recently died in his 80's.
With the number of siblings his great aunt had, perhaps my DH will end up with about 1% - whee!
I figure with the property and land sales, this'll take at least 2 years to settle out... I do wonder if any of the money was in the market, or just the very grateful local small town bank.
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A family friend had two children. One child had one kid, the other had seven. What is the fair way to divide up an estate among this brood? Equal shares for all of the grandkids hardly seems right, Child A's descendants would only get 1/8 of the total.
An equal share to each grandchild sounds exactly right to me. Otherwise it can look like an heir is being penalized for being born to the wrong parents.
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A family friend had two children. One child had one kid, the other had seven. What is the fair way to divide up an estate among this brood? Equal shares for all of the grandkids hardly seems right, Child A's descendants would only get 1/8 of the total.
An equal share to each grandchild sounds exactly right to me. Otherwise it can look like an heir is being penalized for being born to the wrong parents.
Agreed. Obviously the inheritance can be weighed based on the relationship or on need -- whatever the grandparents want -- but this way would seem to be the most fair if all other factors excluded. Child A's kid got 100% of the parental attention and resources growing up. It's not unfair to have the share equally (for once) with other kids.
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A family friend had two children. One child had one kid, the other had seven. What is the fair way to divide up an estate among this brood? Equal shares for all of the grandkids hardly seems right, Child A's descendants would only get 1/8 of the total.
An equal share to each grandchild sounds exactly right to me. Otherwise it can look like an heir is being penalized for being born to the wrong parents.
Totally disagree. 50% to each child. If one child is dead then their children split the child's 50%.
Agreed. Obviously the inheritance can be weighed based on the relationship or on need -- whatever the grandparents want -- but this way would seem to be the most fair if all other factors excluded. Child A's kid got 100% of the parental attention and resources growing up. It's not unfair to have the share equally (for once) with other kids.
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I would split evenly between the generations: the children split 50% of the estate evenly, and the third generation splits the other 50% evenly too. It's a good compromise.
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Easy. Cut the baby in half by wishing everyone well and then signing every penny over to a charity/charities.
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A family friend had two children. One child had one kid, the other had seven. What is the fair way to divide up an estate among this brood? Equal shares for all of the grandkids hardly seems right, Child A's descendants would only get 1/8 of the total.
An equal share to each grandchild sounds exactly right to me. Otherwise it can look like an heir is being penalized for being born to the wrong parents.
I think the default is that it's split evenly with each successive generation. You could do it otherwise, but I think that'd be more about need. (The child of A is presumably her parents' sole heir, so if A and spouse are doing good, maybe evenly among all 8 makes sense, because A will be getting another inheritance.)
When my great-grandpa died, the inheritance was divided as follows because one child and one grandchild had predeceased him:
One-third to each child (two living, one deceased)
Deceased child's share divided among 4 grandchildren (three living, one deceased)
Deceased grandchild's 1/12 share divided between two great-grandchildren
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An equal share to each grandchild sounds exactly right to me. Otherwise it can look like an heir is being penalized for being born to the wrong parents.
Sounds exactly wrong to me. Why should one kid's family be impoverished just because their sibling decided to pop out more kids?
If I had asymmetric grandchildren, I might give them each a little token (like $5k for their college funds) but the bulk of my estate would be split evenly between my kids. Except in my particular case I also have step-kids, which complicates things even further because they may also inherit from their biological father.
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An equal share to each grandchild sounds exactly right to me. Otherwise it can look like an heir is being penalized for being born to the wrong parents.
Sounds exactly wrong to me. Why should one kid's family be impoverished just because their sibling decided to pop out more kids?
If I had asymmetric grandchildren, I might give them each a little token (like $5k for their college funds) but the bulk of my estate would be split evenly between my kids. Except in my particular case I also have step-kids, which complicates things even further because they may also inherit from their biological father.
Yeah, I guess I don't see a reason to leave anything to grandchildren either, unless you really don't like or trust your children. At least, my grandfather's estate gets divided among the children.
Oddly though. Because boys are more important, they got his share of the "business" (which is gone now, but the sale of it netted about $500k). So that's divided 3 ways, except one son was part of the biz, so he got his already. What is left goes to the other 2.
The girls (4 of them) get proceeds from the house ($100k divided by 4). Now, as my mother is dead, and my aunt is dead, that means that I will inherit 1/3 of my mother's 1/4. My cousins (3 boys) will each inherit 1/3 of their mother's 1/4.
Now, if you are talking millions and billions and it's the way your family "does things" to pass on to grandkids, knock yourself out. My parents started small college funds for their grandkids when they were alive. I think my stepdad has changed his will to give a little bit of cash ($2k?) to each grandkid and great grandkid when he dies, but the rest goes to the 3 stepchildren.
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An equal share to each grandchild sounds exactly right to me. Otherwise it can look like an heir is being penalized for being born to the wrong parents.
Sounds exactly wrong to me. Why should one kid's family be impoverished just because their sibling decided to pop out more kids?
We're struggling with this (which is why we still don't have a will). We have no kids, and our siblings are well set up in life, so our thought was to give it to the nieces & nephews if we both die at the same time. However, there are more kids on one side than the other. Plus, the siblings on one side have a different number of children.
Right now, the thought is half to each side, and then evenly split among that generation. So it will be (assuming no more kids) - 25% for the kids on one side, and 6.25% for the ones on the other.
Fair? Maybe not, but nothing else is either.
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An equal share to each grandchild sounds exactly right to me. Otherwise it can look like an heir is being penalized for being born to the wrong parents.
Sounds exactly wrong to me. Why should one kid's family be impoverished just because their sibling decided to pop out more kids?
If I had asymmetric grandchildren, I might give them each a little token (like $5k for their college funds) but the bulk of my estate would be split evenly between my kids. Except in my particular case I also have step-kids, which complicates things even further because they may also inherit from their biological father.
My response was accepting the assumption of "skipping" the inheritance directly to the grandkids. But actually, if that could be discarded I would be in favor of your solution of dividing things equally among the children. That seems even more sensible to me.
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Basically 2 ways to split that up, IMHO
A): 50/50 among the kids
B): Evenly into separate funds for the grandkids
Bi): Evenly to each grandkid, but 5% of total goes to each of kids (so grandkids split 90%). Change those percentage to fit the bill.
My great aunt would be a decent example of this. She never married and had 9 siblings, around 45 nieces/nephews, and beyond that it is probably in the 100's of [great[great]] grand nieces/nephews. My mother and my siblings and I cared for her more than any other family member. Our family is probably among the more well off of her relatives. Do we get more because we put in all the work? Do we get less because we need it more?
What she did was very fair. Everything was split evenly among those 9 siblings. If they had passed, it was split evenly among their kids. Makes it simple.
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A family friend had two children. One child had one kid, the other had seven. What is the fair way to divide up an estate among this brood? Equal shares for all of the grandkids hardly seems right, Child A's descendants would only get 1/8 of the total.
An equal share to each grandchild sounds exactly right to me. Otherwise it can look like an heir is being penalized for being born to the wrong parents.
Agreed. Obviously the inheritance can be weighed based on the relationship or on need -- whatever the grandparents want -- but this way would seem to be the most fair if all other factors excluded. Child A's kid got 100% of the parental attention and resources growing up. It's not unfair to have the share equally (for once) with other kids.
Careful, having few or no siblings cuts both ways especially when the parents start getting older. When the parents need help there is no dividing the costs (time and monetary) up among many siblings. Just because they were an only child does not guarantee they got more resources growing up.
Not sure there can be a good universal rule here, in each family you need to look at the specifics and make judgement calls on what is best and what can be done with what is available.
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Yeah, but do you then act all surprised more than 10 years later that someone has photos you don't have and ask for copies?
Yep, but that's part of the fun, I think. I'm like you, I keep the stuff, organize it, keep it safe. Then every few years, I surprise the hell out of someone by pulling out an old photo and emailing it, just for the hell of it. It's great fun.
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Just look up the uniform trust and estate statues. A lot of very smart people have spent a lot of time trying to figure out what is equitable when it comes to distribution of assets in the event someone dies without a will (i.e, intestacy) . I think the split is generally fair and should be used as the baseline and you can modify to fit your specific situation.
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Oh good, a place to rant. :-)
Mom died about 4 years ago, she was living on a small SS check, I talked to her every Sunday but only saw her once a year at Christmas. (1000 mile distance) Every visit I would bring $1,500
to $3,000 to supplement her income.
She left everything and the house to my sister and I, she had as close as I know about $20,000 in savings.
After the funeral and things got settled, my sister was going to sell the house. I told her to split the savings account and send me half, she said she needed that money to fix the house! In the end, she never sold the house, the money was spent and the house was not fixed. She has had 4 years of paying zero rent on my half of the house.
Some of the fact that she kept the house is on me, I suggested she needs to live someplace and that house would be much cheaper than any apartment she could find. That would be true even if she paid me $300 a month for my half.
The problem, she has nothing! She has a part time job and is not trying to get anything else.
Not technically true, the job she has is through AARP and is a training job to get a job. Every time I talk to her, I ask if she has found a job, she always says, well I'm updating my resume,
Huh! Anyway the point is, she has nothing, so I can't force her to pay anything.
From my point of view, she lives easy walking distance from 35 or 45 businesses, If she made that tour once a week and said, I'm here, available for work, after a year or two, some manager would decide to put her to work.
Now, to give sis some credit, she stayed with mom the last six months of mom's life and took care of her, but mom also supported her during that time.
During that time she got her name on the bank accounts--to pay bills? Legally her name on the account makes it her money.
OK, rant over.
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An equal share to each grandchild sounds exactly right to me. Otherwise it can look like an heir is being penalized for being born to the wrong parents.
Sounds exactly wrong to me. Why should one kid's family be impoverished just because their sibling decided to pop out more kids?
If I had asymmetric grandchildren, I might give them each a little token (like $5k for their college funds) but the bulk of my estate would be split evenly between my kids. Except in my particular case I also have step-kids, which complicates things even further because they may also inherit from their biological father.
My response was accepting the assumption of "skipping" the inheritance directly to the grandkids. But actually, if that could be discarded I would be in favor of your solution of dividing things equally among the children. That seems even more sensible to me.
My grandparents on both sides were subject to a lot of family drama when their parents died, which created hard feelings that lasted for decades. They were resolved not to put their children through the same thing, and both ended up going the "split it equally between the kids, let them figure out what to do about grandkids" route. On one side, one child was married with children and the other was single and childfree, and I think the belief was that the singleton might actually need the money more having no spouse or children (in later years) to help her out if things went wrong. On the other side, one child had fairly recently remarried and brought stepchildren into the family who were not very close to their new relatives(they were teenagers and not all that interested in hanging out with family of any kind) but Grandma knew that son would be hurt if his family was left out. So the least touchy way to handle it was to base the division on the kids.
One advantage to that approach is that if more grandchildren are born later, they can get an even share when their own parents divide things...my single aunt did marry and have children several years after her parents passed.
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Oh good, a place to rant. :-)
Mom died about 4 years ago, she was living on a small SS check, I talked to her every Sunday but only saw her once a year at Christmas. (1000 mile distance) Every visit I would bring $1,500
to $3,000 to supplement her income.
She left everything and the house to my sister and I, she had as close as I know about $20,000 in savings.
After the funeral and things got settled, my sister was going to sell the house. I told her to split the savings account and send me half, she said she needed that money to fix the house! In the end, she never sold the house, the money was spent and the house was not fixed. She has had 4 years of paying zero rent on my half of the house.
Some of the fact that she kept the house is on me, I suggested she needs to live someplace and that house would be much cheaper than any apartment she could find. That would be true even if she paid me $300 a month for my half.
The problem, she has nothing! She has a part time job and is not trying to get anything else.
Not technically true, the job she has is through AARP and is a training job to get a job. Every time I talk to her, I ask if she has found a job, she always says, well I'm updating my resume,
Huh! Anyway the point is, she has nothing, so I can't force her to pay anything.
From my point of view, she lives easy walking distance from 35 or 45 businesses, If she made that tour once a week and said, I'm here, available for work, after a year or two, some manager would decide to put her to work.
Now, to give sis some credit, she stayed with mom the last six months of mom's life and took care of her, but mom also supported her during that time.
During that time she got her name on the bank accounts--to pay bills? Legally her name on the account makes it her money.
OK, rant over.
No, actually, it doesn't. She may have had the right to access it, but she didn't have the right to steal it. The estate didn't go through probate, and it's not legally "her" house even though she's living in it. I recommend you see a good estate lawyer who may also recommend filing a criminal complaint.
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Careful, having few or no siblings cuts both ways especially when the parents start getting older. When the parents need help there is no dividing the costs (time and monetary) up among many siblings. Just because they were an only child does not guarantee they got more resources growing up.
Actually, I think skipping the children's generation and dividing directly into grandkids is odd. But I do think it is fair to divide whatever you are going to leave specifically to grandkids evenly among grandkids. Those children themselves will receive a greater or smaller inheritance from their OWN parents based on sibling number.
Why WOULD you skip the children, especially if they will need help in retirement? If they absolutely need no help (multimillionaires), then why would the single grandkid need more money than the multiple cousins?
Not sure there can be a good universal rule here, in each family you need to look at the specifics and make judgement calls on what is best and what can be done with what is available.
That I can agree with! Certainly I can type all day about how I think things "would" be fair, everything else being even. But every situation is unique. Just piss them all off and give it all to charity!
Why should one kid's family be impoverished just because their sibling decided to pop out more kids?
That's the attitude I dislike about inheritance drama. The attitude that NOT being GIFTED an inheritance is "impoverishing" you. You either already are or aren't impoverished, by luck or life choices. Inheritance surely can help, but at the cost of the life of your loved one.
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Not sure if I posted this here already, but I can't be arsed to read back the comments. Two elderly ladies, both in their 80s, unmarried and childless, lived close together. They were friends, one poor and one rich. The poor lady, who could hardly make ends meet, took care of the other when her health started failing. Don't know how long, but somewhere 6 months to a year. Rich old lady eventually died. Poor old lady got the call the house needed to be cleared within a week. So here's this poor old lady, not in really great shape to be lifting furniture, with no friends or family who suddenly gets the job of clearing the house. She had no clue what to do so after a few days she just called the thrift shop and they cleared the entire house. She never saw a penny for all her stress.
The inheritance? All 300k went to charity.
Not saying the poor lady had a 'right' to inheritance because she took care of her friend in her last months, but the rich lady could've made more of a gesture!
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That stinks. Who called and told a non-relative they had to perform non-compensated work? Seriously, who made that phone call? Probably the person who was ACTUALLY in charge of the estate' and who probably actually got paid.
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As for skipping generations when dolling out inheritance. My parent's and their siblings have all managed to blow through hundreds of thousands in inheritance, we're talking really stupid materialism, and when they all die won't leave much. It doesn't bother me, but from a neutral point of view it seems kind of a shitty thing to do.
The reason very wealthy skip generations? If the estate is large enough ($5 million+ in the US?,) you can avoid transfers of wealth being taxed on death by willing portions to the grand kids.
Example:
Grandparent has $10m in assets.
If they give the it all to the Parent anything over 5 million is taxed at a high rate. It will be taxed again when the Parent gives it to the Grandkid.
If they give $5M to Parent and $5M to the Grandkid. When the Parent dies they've avoided paying the death tax twice on the original wealth.
At least... I believe that's how that works.
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As for skipping generations when dolling out inheritance. My parent's and their siblings have all managed to blow through hundreds of thousands in inheritance, we're talking really stupid materialism, and when they all die won't leave much. It doesn't bother me, but from a neutral point of view it seems kind of a shitty thing to do.
The reason very wealthy skip generations? If the estate is large enough ($5 million+ in the US?,) you can avoid transfers of wealth being taxed on death by willing portions to the grand kids.
Example:
Grandparent has $10m in assets.
If they give the it all to the Parent anything over 5 million is taxed at a high rate. It will be taxed again when the Parent gives it to the Grandkid.
If they give $5M to Parent and $5M to the Grandkid. When the Parent dies they've avoided paying the death tax twice on the original wealth.
At least... I believe that's how that works.
Nope, it's the total size of the estate that triggers the federal estate tax. Doesn't matter if it's left to one heir or fifty. A co (mon strategy, however, is to give tax-free gifts to everyone before death to reduce the size of the estate. Obviously that only works if you have liquid-ish assets to gift. Not practical for estates where the main source of wealth is from a primary residence.
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DH's grandmother distributed most of her money while she was alive, and gave each of the grandkids the same amount. Each of the kids also got something (don't know how much). Her reasoning was based on her knowing, loving, and having a relationship with each of the family members, not on complicated math.
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As for skipping generations when dolling out inheritance. My parent's and their siblings have all managed to blow through hundreds of thousands in inheritance, we're talking really stupid materialism, and when they all die won't leave much. It doesn't bother me, but from a neutral point of view it seems kind of a shitty thing to do.
The reason very wealthy skip generations? If the estate is large enough ($5 million+ in the US?,) you can avoid transfers of wealth being taxed on death by willing portions to the grand kids.
Example:
Grandparent has $10m in assets.
If they give the it all to the Parent anything over 5 million is taxed at a high rate. It will be taxed again when the Parent gives it to the Grandkid.
If they give $5M to Parent and $5M to the Grandkid. When the Parent dies they've avoided paying the death tax twice on the original wealth.
At least... I believe that's how that works.
Nope, it's the total size of the estate that triggers the federal estate tax. Doesn't matter if it's left to one heir or fifty. A co (mon strategy, however, is to give tax-free gifts to everyone before death to reduce the size of the estate. Obviously that only works if you have liquid-ish assets to gift. Not practical for estates where the main source of wealth is from a primary residence.
It's the transfer of the wealth from the Parent to the Grandkid when the Parent dies, that they'd be avoiding the taxes on. Not the initial estate distribution from the Grandparent. I wish I could be more clear on my example but I'm sick and tired. I'll hopefully be off in dreamland shortly.
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As for skipping generations when dolling out inheritance. My parent's and their siblings have all managed to blow through hundreds of thousands in inheritance, we're talking really stupid materialism, and when they all die won't leave much. It doesn't bother me, but from a neutral point of view it seems kind of a shitty thing to do.
The reason very wealthy skip generations? If the estate is large enough ($5 million+ in the US?,) you can avoid transfers of wealth being taxed on death by willing portions to the grand kids.
Example:
Grandparent has $10m in assets.
If they give the it all to the Parent anything over 5 million is taxed at a high rate. It will be taxed again when the Parent gives it to the Grandkid.
If they give $5M to Parent and $5M to the Grandkid. When the Parent dies they've avoided paying the death tax twice on the original wealth.
At least... I believe that's how that works.
Nope, it's the total size of the estate that triggers the federal estate tax. Doesn't matter if it's left to one heir or fifty. A co (mon strategy, however, is to give tax-free gifts to everyone before death to reduce the size of the estate. Obviously that only works if you have liquid-ish assets to gift. Not practical for estates where the main source of wealth is from a primary residence.
It's the transfer of the wealth from the Parent to the Grandkid when the Parent dies, that they'd be avoiding the taxes on. Not the initial estate distribution from the Grandparent. I wish I could be more clear on my example but I'm sick and tired. I'll hopefully be off in dreamland shortly.
Gotcha. I see the reasoning now.
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Oh good, a place to rant. :-)
Mom died about 4 years ago, she was living on a small SS check, I talked to her every Sunday but only saw her once a year at Christmas. (1000 mile distance) Every visit I would bring $1,500
to $3,000 to supplement her income.
She left everything and the house to my sister and I, she had as close as I know about $20,000 in savings.
After the funeral and things got settled, my sister was going to sell the house. I told her to split the savings account and send me half, she said she needed that money to fix the house! In the end, she never sold the house, the money was spent and the house was not fixed. She has had 4 years of paying zero rent on my half of the house.
Some of the fact that she kept the house is on me, I suggested she needs to live someplace and that house would be much cheaper than any apartment she could find. That would be true even if she paid me $300 a month for my half.
The problem, she has nothing! She has a part time job and is not trying to get anything else.
Not technically true, the job she has is through AARP and is a training job to get a job. Every time I talk to her, I ask if she has found a job, she always says, well I'm updating my resume,
Huh! Anyway the point is, she has nothing, so I can't force her to pay anything.
From my point of view, she lives easy walking distance from 35 or 45 businesses, If she made that tour once a week and said, I'm here, available for work, after a year or two, some manager would decide to put her to work.
Now, to give sis some credit, she stayed with mom the last six months of mom's life and took care of her, but mom also supported her during that time.
During that time she got her name on the bank accounts--to pay bills? Legally her name on the account makes it her money.
OK, rant over.
No, actually, it doesn't. She may have had the right to access it, but she didn't have the right to steal it. The estate didn't go through probate, and it's not legally "her" house even though she's living in it. I recommend you see a good estate lawyer who may also recommend filing a criminal complaint.
The lawyer that settled the estate said, the bank account was hers. Her name on the account, her money. As for the house, I still own 1/2 of it, yes, I could force a sale and get her out and end up with $25k or $30k. Then my sister who has nothing , (by her own choices) will not even have a home to live in. She has spent time living in a van with her girlfriend.
On the other hand our NW is near 2M, by our choices, so it won't make much difference
to my retirement. It is just a bit of a thorn, that I'll use a coupon to save 40 cents and she's costing me $300 a month.
I have thought about forcing it to go to my heirs when she dies, but it my just be a nuisance
for them to have a property 1000+ miles away.
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On the other hand our NW is near 2M, by our choices, so it won't make much difference
to my retirement. It is just a bit of a thorn, that I'll use a coupon to save 40 cents and she's costing me $300 a month.
It doesn't sound like she is ever going to change. I would give her a quit-claim deed and be done with it.
That also protects you if she gets a scuzzy boyfriend who gets doped up, trips and injures himself. You won't be the deep pockets on the deed to sue.
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Careful, having few or no siblings cuts both ways especially when the parents start getting older. When the parents need help there is no dividing the costs (time and monetary) up among many siblings. Just because they were an only child does not guarantee they got more resources growing up.
Actually, I think skipping the children's generation and dividing directly into grandkids is odd. But I do think it is fair to divide whatever you are going to leave specifically to grandkids evenly among grandkids. Those children themselves will receive a greater or smaller inheritance from their OWN parents based on sibling number.
Why WOULD you skip the children, especially if they will need help in retirement? If they absolutely need no help (multimillionaires), then why would the single grandkid need more money than the multiple cousins?
Currently ongoing example in my family. Judge for yourself it if was the right or wrong thing. It is causing a little bit of conflict so far... unknown how it will end.
Mom/Dad had 3 kids. One of them has a long history of substance abuse and a long history of spending more than she makes. Any amount of money that comes her way is soon zero. She is estranged from her adult kids. Dad split it 1/3, 1/3 for 2 of the siblings. But for the kid with substance/money abuse, he split her share evenly between her and her children. I.e: 1/3, 1/3, 1/9, 1/9, 1/9.
His reasoning was that her kids would never see a dime of it.
The unfortunate side of this is that he never told her and never left any message telling her why. He just did it and said it was going to be our problem when he died.
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Yeah I'm the only responsible kid in my family and a few years ago my dad took me to the bank and put my name on all of his accounts and made me sole beneficiary of his retirement accounts...my siblings don't know and are gonna be so pissed.
I've told him several times this is a bad idea and to make an official will but he seems to forever to pass the buck to me and let me figure it all out. Thanks dad! He's still pretty young so maybe he'll change it.
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Yeah, both my parents have me as the responsible person in case of inaptitude, as the executor of their will, the main person responsible for their life insurance, and as the generally responsible person should anything happen to them.
Fortunately, they have separate bank accounts... Because they are still married.mto each other.
I've been hassling each of them to tell the other, but no idea if they have. THATS gonna go well...
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Oh good, a place to rant. :-)
Mom died about 4 years ago, she was living on a small SS check, I talked to her every Sunday but only saw her once a year at Christmas. (1000 mile distance) Every visit I would bring $1,500
to $3,000 to supplement her income.
She left everything and the house to my sister and I, she had as close as I know about $20,000 in savings.
After the funeral and things got settled, my sister was going to sell the house. I told her to split the savings account and send me half, she said she needed that money to fix the house! In the end, she never sold the house, the money was spent and the house was not fixed. She has had 4 years of paying zero rent on my half of the house.
Some of the fact that she kept the house is on me, I suggested she needs to live someplace and that house would be much cheaper than any apartment she could find. That would be true even if she paid me $300 a month for my half.
The problem, she has nothing! She has a part time job and is not trying to get anything else.
Not technically true, the job she has is through AARP and is a training job to get a job. Every time I talk to her, I ask if she has found a job, she always says, well I'm updating my resume,
Huh! Anyway the point is, she has nothing, so I can't force her to pay anything.
From my point of view, she lives easy walking distance from 35 or 45 businesses, If she made that tour once a week and said, I'm here, available for work, after a year or two, some manager would decide to put her to work.
Now, to give sis some credit, she stayed with mom the last six months of mom's life and took care of her, but mom also supported her during that time.
During that time she got her name on the bank accounts--to pay bills? Legally her name on the account makes it her money.
OK, rant over.
No, actually, it doesn't. She may have had the right to access it, but she didn't have the right to steal it. The estate didn't go through probate, and it's not legally "her" house even though she's living in it. I recommend you see a good estate lawyer who may also recommend filing a criminal complaint.
The lawyer that settled the estate said, the bank account was hers. Her name on the account, her money. As for the house, I still own 1/2 of it, yes, I could force a sale and get her out and end up with $25k or $30k. Then my sister who has nothing , (by her own choices) will not even have a home to live in. She has spent time living in a van with her girlfriend.
On the other hand our NW is near 2M, by our choices, so it won't make much difference
to my retirement. It is just a bit of a thorn, that I'll use a coupon to save 40 cents and she's costing me $300 a month.
I have thought about forcing it to go to my heirs when she dies, but it my just be a nuisance
for them to have a property 1000+ miles away.
Just having power of attorney over an account doesn't make the money hers. Unless they actually made it a joint account?
You may be able to solve the house problem by writing out a zero-interest mortgage for your share of the equity. She will now have control of 100% of the inheritance (which should thrill her since she's a dirty thief). But the house can't be sold without you getting paid off. Also, since you would no longer be the owner of the house, just the mortgage holder, you're not liable if someone trips on the sidewalk and sues.
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This is the best thread to binge read.
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No real drama here, just wall of shame material. My grandparents passed away and distributed their estate of approximately $300k equally to their 4 children. One of them who is woefully inept with money decided to "retire" after receiving this "life changing amount" ($75,000). He left a pretty decent custodial job and proceeded to buy a used motorhome and roadtrip south to Disney world, spent a few weeks, and road tripped to Disney Land. He then ran out of money, sold the motorhome, and had to buy a minivan to drive back in. He now commutes 45 minutes to work in a toll booth.
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No real drama here, just wall of shame material. My grandparents passed away and distributed their estate of approximately $300k equally to their 4 children. One of them who is woefully inept with money decided to "retire" after receiving this "life changing amount" ($75,000). He left a pretty decent custodial job and proceeded to buy a used motorhome and roadtrip south to Disney world, spent a few weeks, and road tripped to Disney Land. He then ran out of money, sold the motorhome, and had to buy a minivan to drive back in. He now commutes 45 minutes to work in a toll booth.
I cringed so hard I threw my back out.
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Qmavan - when you have 2 million(congrats on this), your money should me making $25,000 every 3 or 4 months. Why in the world would you consume 4 YEARS of your life worrying about it? Would we consider this a reverse face punch?
Sign over your portion to your sister. Consider your mothers gift to you helping to prepare you for your success. That may have been by direct lessons from her, or just placing you in a place in your life to learn them much on your own. Your sister did not receive or accept that lesson for some reason. Maybe your strength to move 1000 miles away led to your success?
In a few months when you have made the money back, you won't give it a second though. Your concerns for your sisters well being will of course continue indefinitely.
Let us know how it goes.
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No real drama here, just wall of shame material. My grandparents passed away and distributed their estate of approximately $300k equally to their 4 children. One of them who is woefully inept with money decided to "retire" after receiving this "life changing amount" ($75,000). He left a pretty decent custodial job and proceeded to buy a used motorhome and roadtrip south to Disney world, spent a few weeks, and road tripped to Disney Land. He then ran out of money, sold the motorhome, and had to buy a minivan to drive back in. He now commutes 45 minutes to work in a toll booth.
*slow clap* People just are not taught to process anymore. My little kiddo is going to be annoyed at me making her process big decisions. "But dad, why can't I just do what I want like my other friends? They have all that they want!"
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No real drama here, just wall of shame material. My grandparents passed away and distributed their estate of approximately $300k equally to their 4 children. One of them who is woefully inept with money decided to "retire" after receiving this "life changing amount" ($75,000). He left a pretty decent custodial job and proceeded to buy a used motorhome and roadtrip south to Disney world, spent a few weeks, and road tripped to Disney Land. He then ran out of money, sold the motorhome, and had to buy a minivan to drive back in. He now commutes 45 minutes to work in a toll booth.
*slow clap* People just are not taught to process anymore. My little kiddo is going to be annoyed at me making her process big decisions. "But dad, why can't I just do what I want like my other friends? They have all that they want!"
Oh, this family is a treasure trove of wall of shame comedy (and seem to have an odd fetish with Disney). Here's one from an earlier thread...
I have an estranged Aunt and Uncle that took out credit cards to buy his & her compact VW Cabrio convertibles. They are both obese so they each needed their own, so everywhere they went, they drove their cars separately. I was 12 at the time and couldn't stop laughing when they tootled up to the house. Eventually they lost the cars to a title loan they had to take out so they could go on their annual trip to Disney World
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I never really heard the whole story, but my brother recently came very close to losing the house they were supposed to close on slash move into the next day (or something similarly last-minute) because the people who had recently inherited that house decided to throw some kind of shit-fit. (They were selling it after their mother died and left the house to them.) My brother and his family were in a hotel because they hadn't been able to get the other people to agree to a closing date that would match up with the sale of their old house, even though no one was living in it. So they were basically about to be homeless because of these people having some kind of inheritance disagreement. (I have no idea if it's common for people to leave a week or two gap between houses, it seems kind of crazy to me... but that's another story.)
Apparently the real estate lawyer was in tears because of both the last-minute threats to cancel and also how nasty they were being about it. Happy ending for my brother and his family: things eventually went as planned. We will presumably never know about the almost certainly unhappy ending for the other family.
I cringed so hard I threw my back out.
Poor thing. Let me help you hobble over to the Mustachian People Problems thread where you can tell us all about your cringe-induced injury... ;-)
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My MIL lusted after some generic antique furnishings from her inlaws the entire time she was married. We're not talking tens of thousands of dollars; just solid middle class stuff from the 1920s-1940s in middling condition. Nothing worth over 1k, and 90% of it just a few hundred apiece.
Once the final inlaw died, MIL bee-lined up to their house and scooped up everything and trucked it back to her house.
She had Polaroids of all of the furnishings and carried them around in her purse and would whip them out to show anybody she could get to stand still for 5 minutes: the mailman, the neighbor, the checkout clerk, the waiter... gloating over each one and would end with "and it's all MINE!" with a huge grin on her face. It was kind of sick and REALLY embarrassing when we happened to be with her.
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Some states do have inheritance tax, which makes skipping a generation make more sense. But only if the immediate children are past childbearing age.
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Yeah, but do you then act all surprised more than 10 years later that someone has photos you don't have and ask for copies?
Yep, but that's part of the fun, I think. I'm like you, I keep the stuff, organize it, keep it safe. Then every few years, I surprise the hell out of someone by pulling out an old photo and emailing it, just for the hell of it. It's great fun.
I wish it worked that way in my family. There's decades of bad history, and I am taking a perverse pleasure in having something that everyone else wants fully in my control. Teach you to exclude me and my sister from family activities...
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Oh good, a place to rant. :-)
Mom died about 4 years ago, she was living on a small SS check, I talked to her every Sunday but only saw her once a year at Christmas. (1000 mile distance) Every visit I would bring $1,500
to $3,000 to supplement her income.
She left everything and the house to my sister and I, she had as close as I know about $20,000 in savings.
After the funeral and things got settled, my sister was going to sell the house. I told her to split the savings account and send me half, she said she needed that money to fix the house! In the end, she never sold the house, the money was spent and the house was not fixed. She has had 4 years of paying zero rent on my half of the house.
Some of the fact that she kept the house is on me, I suggested she needs to live someplace and that house would be much cheaper than any apartment she could find. That would be true even if she paid me $300 a month for my half.
The problem, she has nothing! She has a part time job and is not trying to get anything else.
Not technically true, the job she has is through AARP and is a training job to get a job. Every time I talk to her, I ask if she has found a job, she always says, well I'm updating my resume,
Huh! Anyway the point is, she has nothing, so I can't force her to pay anything.
From my point of view, she lives easy walking distance from 35 or 45 businesses, If she made that tour once a week and said, I'm here, available for work, after a year or two, some manager would decide to put her to work.
Now, to give sis some credit, she stayed with mom the last six months of mom's life and took care of her, but mom also supported her during that time.
During that time she got her name on the bank accounts--to pay bills? Legally her name on the account makes it her money.
OK, rant over.
No, actually, it doesn't. She may have had the right to access it, but she didn't have the right to steal it. The estate didn't go through probate, and it's not legally "her" house even though she's living in it. I recommend you see a good estate lawyer who may also recommend filing a criminal complaint.
The lawyer that settled the estate said, the bank account was hers. Her name on the account, her money. As for the house, I still own 1/2 of it, yes, I could force a sale and get her out and end up with $25k or $30k. Then my sister who has nothing , (by her own choices) will not even have a home to live in. She has spent time living in a van with her girlfriend.
On the other hand our NW is near 2M, by our choices, so it won't make much difference
to my retirement. It is just a bit of a thorn, that I'll use a coupon to save 40 cents and she's costing me $300 a month.
I have thought about forcing it to go to my heirs when she dies, but it my just be a nuisance
for them to have a property 1000+ miles away.
Just having power of attorney over an account doesn't make the money hers. Unless they actually made it a joint account?
Joint account is how I understood it.
You may be able to solve the house problem by writing out a zero-interest mortgage for your share of the equity. She will now have control of 100% of the inheritance (which should thrill her since she's a dirty thief). But the house can't be sold without you getting paid off. Also, since you would no longer be the owner of the house, just the mortgage holder, you're not liable if someone trips on the sidewalk and sues.
Yes, to you and Swordguy, the liability has been a thought on my mind.
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When DW's great-grandparents passed away, there was lots of family strife.
So DW's grandparents have a clause in their will, basically stating, "If anyone complains or protests, they get nothing."
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Qmavan - when you have 2 million(congrats on this), your money should me making $25,000 every 3 or 4 months. Why in the world would you consume 4 YEARS of your life worrying about it? Would we consider this a reverse face punch?
That's a large exaggeration to say I would, "consume 4 YEARS of your life worrying about it"
I haven't. It has been my hope that she would get a job and be able to make a rent payment,
but that hasn't happened.
Sign over your portion to your sister. Consider your mothers gift to you helping to prepare you for your success. That may have been by direct lessons from her, or just placing you in a place in your life to learn them much on your own. Your sister did not receive or accept that lesson for some reason. Maybe your strength to move 1000 miles away led to your success?
Don't know, she moved 250 miles away before 15 years before I moved 1000.
In a few months when you have made the money back, you won't give it a second though. Your concerns for your sisters well being will of course continue indefinitely.
Let us know how it goes.
We'll see, I know she has a limited time left in her job training program, maybe she will get serious about a job when it runs out.
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We have a drama in progress. DW's grandfather passed away recently. Grandmother is still kicking at 90, but feeling old and alone. Their plan had always been to split the estate evenly between DW's father and uncle, their two children. Now, grandmother is thinking of leaving more to the uncle, "because he needs it more."
This is deepening a rift that started nearly fifty years ago when grandfather and grandmother paid for uncle's private college education, and then "didn't have enough" to pay for father's education, so he went to community college, and then on to finish up at the state school. DW's father started bagging groceries after college, and then eventually landed a public sector union job. Lots of hard and sometimes dangerous work, but through a long career, miserly frugality, and careful money management, DW's father amassed a nearly $2 million nest egg and DW's parents were able to retire in their mid to late fifties.
Meanwhile, DW's uncle worked in accounting, bought a nice house in the suburbs, furnished it respectably and impeccably, traveled to Hawaii regularly, and is still working in his early sixties. But grandmother may now give uncle more "because he needs it more".
The thing I don't understand is how parents can be so obtuse with these things. Can they not see the emotional damage they are wreaking? I love what my mom and stepfather have done: with my mom's two and my stepfather's three kids, they have said that they plan to split everything 5 ways. Plain and simple. If one goes before the other, I guess that could potentially change, but given who they are, how they live, and how generous and kind they are, I doubt it. And if so, so what? We are all grown ups and don't "deserve" anything.
Back to DW's grandfather, I hope we make it through the funeral this week without big drama. There are already other issues surfacing about the remembrance video...
Parents can just be warped sometimes. No fix possible.
Best to just move on sometimes I think. I expect estate issues someday as supposedly I'm the executor of their will but I expect my parents to drift towards my out of state sibling in time. Absence makes the heart fonder and all that stuff.
My sibling is a snowflake. I'm the one that never quite meets their expectations. I can give you a dozen examples but you get the idea. I've heard a few lifetime long criticisms of their siblings who could never live up to my parents' expectations so is little doubt of our (myself and DW) position in my parents' minds.
We have a good marriage, good income, stable careers, etc. Good kids, good home, etc. We don't NEED them and that is likely a key problem. My sibling has relied on them for alot - funding, repairs, upgrades, etc. I was never given the same opportunities in the first place but I also recognized the baggage that came with that so I avoided asking them for anything in decades but their time - an opportunity to spend time with them. Nope - now that is in short supply and has been for years. Same with sibling. Yet parents can travel multiple states away and spend a week or more with sibling and family. We're closer on the map.
WTF??? I think DW and I understand the problem pretty well now and see that things will likely never change. Was painful when we didn't get it and were grasping at straws. My kids are noticing now as they get older. We've discussed it with them.
My parents have likely poisoned their relationships with our kids I fear. I just wanted my kids to have a similar positive relationship with our parents similar to the one that I had with my grandparents. Guess not.
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DW and I just shake our heads and use it as a teachable moment for our kids.
This over and over and over... ;)
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DW and I just shake our heads and use it as a teachable moment for our kids.
This over and over and over... ;)
This, 100%.
Or teachable moments for US. I've found such value in looking at people do things (usually things that start off smart and then just go downhill until you're like WTF what were you thinking??!) and swearing 'if it was me I wouldn't do that!!' and then like 6 months later I'm in a situation that I can see slipping down in the same way and I'm just like NOPE, see what happened to that person, you swore you wouldn't! And then I don't. Very educational!
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We have a good marriage, good income, stable careers, etc. Good kids, good home, etc. We don't NEED them and that is likely a key problem.
Some people's only way of relating to others is by helping them. I have a relative like that. If we say, "Wanna come have fun at the zoo with us and the kids Saturday?" she'd say no. But if we said, "We want to go to the zoo but we can't handle all the kids. Would you be able to come along to help us keep the toddlers safe?" she'd cancel a doctor's appointment and pack a picnic. We joke that if she gets sent to Hell when she dies, she'll find out it's a spa.
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DW and I just shake our heads and use it as a teachable moment for our kids.
This over and over and over... ;)
I'm a young adult who has mildly antimustachian family, and crazy insane antimustachian in-laws, and I thank my parents every day for being sensible people, and my dad for pointing things out and using them as "teachable moments". Both to teach us better money management and decision making, and as a "everyone is different, and you must treat them with respect, but don't do what they do!" moments.
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On the other hand our NW is near 2M, by our choices, so it won't make much difference
to my retirement. It is just a bit of a thorn, that I'll use a coupon to save 40 cents and she's costing me $300 a month.
It doesn't sound like she is ever going to change. I would give her a quit-claim deed and be done with it.
That also protects you if she gets a scuzzy boyfriend who gets doped up, trips and injures himself. You won't be the deep pockets on the deed to sue.
I agree. Just give her your half and be done with it.
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My family was rural, poor, Catholic, and large. At some point my grandfather and his brothers built a business. While my mom was a child they were very poor, but they had enough money to send the youngest to trade school.
Eventually the business did well, and I'd say my grandparents were worth about a million, a lot of money in my home town. One of my brothers was working the business also, so he got his inheritance (part of the business) while alive. The trust/ will set up was to divide the money left in the business (when it was sold) between the boys. The house (worth a lot less), would be sold and proceeds would go to the girls.
Well, my grandmother died in her early 60's, and my grandfather remarried within a year. This caused a rift. He traveled quite a bit with grandma, but that upset some aunts/ uncles with the new wife because he's spending their inheritance. My grandpa worked very hard. His new wife? Raised 11 children essentially on her own and also worked very hard. Wonderful woman (and my grandpa would not have done well single).
Anyway, my grandfather died in his 80's (17 years ago), and at that point, he'd been married to his second wife for more than 15 years. After the funeral, my uncle called my mom (the executor) and wanted to know WHEN HE WAS GETTING HIS MONEY BECAUSE HE'S WAITED HIS WHOLE LIFE FOR HIS MONEY (probably $250k). My grandpa was not even buried yet.
Here's the thing - the trust was set up so that his second wife could live off the interest of the trust - AND THE PRINCIPAL IF NECESSARY, until she dies. She didn't really need much - she has a pension from working at the library while raising her family, plus social security. When they married, she kept her house and eventually moved back into it.
Yeah, well, that was 17 years ago. She's 97. Still living. AND, she's outlived both my mother and an aunt. That uncle? Not doing too great, and I think she might outlive him too.
Sadly, this lovely step-grandmother of mine just passed last weekend. She didn't outlive the nasty uncle, and the second nasty uncle and his wife. She almost made it to 98.
I'd like to have more stories of how the distribution of the trust rolls out, but I live 2500 miles away.
Maybe my sister will give me the dirt if she hears it.
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DW and I just shake our heads and use it as a teachable moment for our kids.
This over and over and over... ;)
I'm a young adult who has mildly antimustachian family, and crazy insane antimustachian in-laws, and I thank my parents every day for being sensible people, and my dad for pointing things out and using them as "teachable moments". Both to teach us better money management and decision making, and as a "everyone is different, and you must treat them with respect, but don't do what they do!" moments.
I'm teaching my kids b/c my parents didn't do enough to teach us about those occasions IMHO. That or I had a thick teenager skull back then and wasn't paying attention. ;)
Don't want our kids to stumble around for too long figuring out adulthood after they are out on their own. I made alot of expensive mistakes (relative to my then 80s minimum wage income) during that period. Wish MMM/Internet existed in the 80s... ;)
Had SO many questions back then - some really stupid too - and few people around me who had reliable answers because the subjects of money, income and a few others were secrets akin to secrets or gossiping. And you never (get caught) gossip(ing).
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On the other hand our NW is near 2M, by our choices, so it won't make much difference
to my retirement. It is just a bit of a thorn, that I'll use a coupon to save 40 cents and she's costing me $300 a month.
It doesn't sound like she is ever going to change. I would give her a quit-claim deed and be done with it.
It also protects you if, as I have seen with a case involving my DW who was helping a poor, elderly friend, the house gets run down enough that it is condemned by the town, or even overgrown and they decide to mow the lawn. If so, they will happily go after anyone else on the deed to bill for any expenses, at 100% if they can't collect from the indigent sister.
And by the way, if you go the quit-claim route, don't just send it to her and be done. If she was the kind of person who would go register it properly, she would probably have a job and be paying you rent. Make sure of what needs to be filed with the town, county, whatever and make sure it gets done yourself.
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The posts about rationale for dividing up estates among differing generations and relationships were quite timely. DH and I are doing our wills in a couple weeks and trying to figure out a plan, and we are disagreeing.
We have no kids, but we each having a living parent or parents (one of his and both of mine), one sibling each, and 2 niece/nephews on his side.
A large % of the estate will go to a charity. Easy. He feels obligated to give something to the niece and nephew, not because he is close to them (we aren't close at all), but because he thinks it would be "weird not to". I disagree. I'm expecting (terrible word, but you hopefully know what I mean) nothing from any of aunts an uncles. It doesn't seem abnormal at all not to send money that way, though admitedly they all have kids to leave things to and we don't. These children are relative strangers to us, due to family drama, divorce, other messy things, and also to us living overseas for most of their lives thus far. And because DH and his family have never been emotionally close to each other.
My solution is that of the non-charity money, we each "get" 50% to allocated as we see fit. My parents have more money than they know what to do with. My sister and BIL (no kids) are very well off, but somewhat spendypants. I am sure they have savings and retirement so they are better off than most, but will probably not be able to RE, though my guess is that at ~60, they will have more than enough. I'd leave them all of the "my side" money, because I don't know where else I'd send it and because Sister will be our executor and dealing with some of the ILs warrants some compensation beyond the typical executor fee. ;) He would likely leave some to his mom who makes very solid money, but also spends most or all of it, as far as we can tell and shows no signs of ever being able to retire. Some would go to BIL, but for various reasons, leaving him large sums of money would be a bad idea, and the rest of that "side" would go to niece and nephew. DH can determine the %s as he sees fit.
My family will not care what we do. They are reasonable, sane people who are either great with money or at least not desperate or greedy.
Does this seem like a recipe for disaster? It could see my sibling getting 50% of the non-charity portion, and DH's sibling only getting 20% (or some other amount <50%). 50/50 among them is a bad idea, and it doesn't allow DH to help his mom, which he'd like to do. Leaving money to my parents to make it equal to what goes to MIL would be weird and silly. Thoughts?
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Thoughts?
You don't mention this, but are you are each leaving enough money to maintain current living/retirement standards to the other in the first instance? Another thing you don't mention is friends: I have some lifelong friends that I have left reasonably significant amounts to.
I hope it is unlikely that your DH's mother would survive him: if I were you I might be more worried about having to support his mother while you are both alive than after DH's death.
Any chance you could get to know DH's niece and nephew at some point? Find out what they are like as people and whether or not you like them?
I don't see anything wrong with your proposed distribution among the family. I wonder whether your concern is that BIL might react badly? To which the only answer is: you will be dead enough not to care. You can protect the executor by putting in a clause saying that anyone who contests the will gets nothing.
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My family was rural, poor, Catholic, and large. At some point my grandfather and his brothers built a business. While my mom was a child they were very poor, but they had enough money to send the youngest to trade school.
Eventually the business did well, and I'd say my grandparents were worth about a million, a lot of money in my home town. One of my brothers was working the business also, so he got his inheritance (part of the business) while alive. The trust/ will set up was to divide the money left in the business (when it was sold) between the boys. The house (worth a lot less), would be sold and proceeds would go to the girls.
Well, my grandmother died in her early 60's, and my grandfather remarried within a year. This caused a rift. He traveled quite a bit with grandma, but that upset some aunts/ uncles with the new wife because he's spending their inheritance. My grandpa worked very hard. His new wife? Raised 11 children essentially on her own and also worked very hard. Wonderful woman (and my grandpa would not have done well single).
Anyway, my grandfather died in his 80's (17 years ago), and at that point, he'd been married to his second wife for more than 15 years. After the funeral, my uncle called my mom (the executor) and wanted to know WHEN HE WAS GETTING HIS MONEY BECAUSE HE'S WAITED HIS WHOLE LIFE FOR HIS MONEY (probably $250k). My grandpa was not even buried yet.
Here's the thing - the trust was set up so that his second wife could live off the interest of the trust - AND THE PRINCIPAL IF NECESSARY, until she dies. She didn't really need much - she has a pension from working at the library while raising her family, plus social security. When they married, she kept her house and eventually moved back into it.
Yeah, well, that was 17 years ago. She's 97. Still living. AND, she's outlived both my mother and an aunt. That uncle? Not doing too great, and I think she might outlive him too.
Sadly, this lovely step-grandmother of mine just passed last weekend. She didn't outlive the nasty uncle, and the second nasty uncle and his wife. She almost made it to 98.
I'd like to have more stories of how the distribution of the trust rolls out, but I live 2500 miles away.
Maybe my sister will give me the dirt if she hears it.
Sorry for you loss. And my further sympathies to the executor(s) of the trust and any further will.
I don't even know who the executor is, because when my grandpa died, it was my mom. And my mom died 4 years ago.
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Thoughts?
You don't mention this, but are you are each leaving enough money to maintain current living/retirement standards to the other in the first instance? Another thing you don't mention is friends: I have some lifelong friends that I have left reasonably significant amounts to.
I hope it is unlikely that your DH's mother would survive him: if I were you I might be more worried about having to support his mother while you are both alive than after DH's death.
Any chance you could get to know DH's niece and nephew at some point? Find out what they are like as people and whether or not you like them?
I don't see anything wrong with your proposed distribution among the family. I wonder whether your concern is that BIL might react badly? To which the only answer is: you will be dead enough not to care. You can protect the executor by putting in a clause saying that anyone who contests the will gets nothing.
I should have mentioned this in my post, but we'd be first leaving everything to each other, should one spouse outlive the other. This is the back up to that, and the longer term plan.
Getting to know the N&N is not really possible. BIL doesn't have an especially large role in their life for various reasons--some it fault and some not,-- though certainly he does seem them and presumably love them. And we are about to move back overseas for 3 years, so there is little chance we'll see them at all during that time.
I definitely do worry about MIL's financial situation, and I certainly hope DH and I outlive her, but I think he wants to include her lest that not happen.
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Gosh I hope my parents live a long, long time.
I have the n'er do-well brother: Alcohol abuse, drug abuse, can't keep a job, indicted for hitting someone else's child, indicted for (briefly) taking a child of a former girlfriend (thankfully nothing abusive) etc. Extremely manupulative, entitled, et cetera. I don't see him much.
Parents keep bailing him out and paying for a lawyer. And they say they have taken him mostly out of the will. And keep a list of his debts to them for bailouts.
And I am the executor. Ugh. Drama is almost certain.
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I guess this is inheritance-related...
My cousin, who lives with my aunt, got married. She couldn't afford her own place, so my aunt bought a $2 million apartment for them. Oh, and then hired a maid to help them clean the place. But I digress.
The inheritance ridiculousness is that my aunt then promptly bought $2 million apartments for each my cousin's siblings because "it wouldn't be fair for my cousin to get a condo and for the others to get nothing". Did I mention that none of the siblings live in the country in which the condos were purchased? My aunt has already purchased for them condos in the respective cities in which they live, but not ones worth $2 million, so therefore, it is still unfair unless they all get condos that cost the same price in the same building.
Sometimes I just have to shake my head in disbelief...
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I guess this is inheritance-related...
My cousin, who lives with my aunt, got married. She couldn't afford her own place, so my aunt bought a $2 million apartment for them. Oh, and then hired a maid to help them clean the place. But I digress.
The inheritance ridiculousness is that my aunt then promptly bought $2 million apartments for each my cousin's siblings because "it wouldn't be fair for my cousin to get a condo and for the others to get nothing". Did I mention that none of the siblings live in the country in which the condos were purchased? My aunt has already purchased for them condos in the respective cities in which they live, but not ones worth $2 million, so therefore, it is still unfair unless they all get condos that cost the same price in the same building.
Sometimes I just have to shake my head in disbelief...
Holy crap. Sometimes I get glimpses of this sort of wealth through my clients, but that is intense.
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I guess this is inheritance-related...
My cousin, who lives with my aunt, got married. She couldn't afford her own place, so my aunt bought a $2 million apartment for them. Oh, and then hired a maid to help them clean the place. But I digress.
The inheritance ridiculousness is that my aunt then promptly bought $2 million apartments for each my cousin's siblings because "it wouldn't be fair for my cousin to get a condo and for the others to get nothing". Did I mention that none of the siblings live in the country in which the condos were purchased? My aunt has already purchased for them condos in the respective cities in which they live, but not ones worth $2 million, so therefore, it is still unfair unless they all get condos that cost the same price in the same building.
Sometimes I just have to shake my head in disbelief...
Holy crap. Sometimes I get glimpses of this sort of wealth through my clients, but that is intense.
And, it's extremely unlikely the wealth will survive into the next generation. We've all read Stanley and Danko's chapter on Economic Outpatient Care and its effects on asset accumulation.
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Thoughts?
I think all non-charity money should go in a trust to take care of MIL, then a plan to distribute from there. She could be quite old and unable to work, while nieces and nephews who are presumably able to work, would get the money.
I had 2 relatives who did not have children and left some of their estate to me, and IMO, although I loved getting the money, I think it was ultimately the wrong decision and it should not have been left to my generation.
Scenario 1) Dad's brother dies at age 53, no kids - splits his estate among his 6 nieces and nephews. I am one of them and 4 of the cousins are from my fathers other brother (3 brothers total).
Fortunately, it ended very amicably, but my uncle (P) had inherited some very sentimental items when my grandmother died. My cousin, who was 25 at the time, wanted some of them. He had never even met the grandmother b/c she died young. My dad was legally entitled to absolutely nothing - no money, no belongings. My cousin was ok with my dad taking them, but could have caused a real stink. My dad also had to help break up the estate, get the house ready to sell, etc. and since most of us were still teenagers or kids - we couldn't do much to help. My dad got exactly $0 for all his work, all though he did get some items. I didn't think that was right.
Scenario 2) great aunt didn't have children. My parents literally spent decades with some sort of level of care for her including things like bill management and at the end of her life she got dementia and my mother had to do all sorts of medical decisions on her behalf, file tax returns, etc. She split her estate 8 ways, including with the great nieces and nephews. So for her decades of (uncompensated) work, my mom got the same amount of money as my cousin who never saw her or took care of her. I didn't think that was right either.
IMO - siblings or direct children should inherit money from the generation above, then let them decide how to pass it on. Younger people have time on their sides - older people do not.
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Thoughts?
You don't mention this, but are you are each leaving enough money to maintain current living/retirement standards to the other in the first instance? Another thing you don't mention is friends: I have some lifelong friends that I have left reasonably significant amounts to.
I hope it is unlikely that your DH's mother would survive him: if I were you I might be more worried about having to support his mother while you are both alive than after DH's death.
Any chance you could get to know DH's niece and nephew at some point? Find out what they are like as people and whether or not you like them?
I don't see anything wrong with your proposed distribution among the family. I wonder whether your concern is that BIL might react badly? To which the only answer is: you will be dead enough not to care. You can protect the executor by putting in a clause saying that anyone who contests the will gets nothing.
I should have mentioned this in my post, but we'd be first leaving everything to each other, should one spouse outlive the other. This is the back up to that, and the longer term plan.
Getting to know the N&N is not really possible. BIL doesn't have an especially large role in their life for various reasons--some it fault and some not,-- though certainly he does seem them and presumably love them. And we are about to move back overseas for 3 years, so there is little chance we'll see them at all during that time.
I definitely do worry about MIL's financial situation, and I certainly hope DH and I outlive her, but I think he wants to include her lest that not happen.
May I make a suggestion? First, leave your money to each other. Then, leave it to any children you have, including natural, adopted, or of which you are the primary caretakers. You may not have kids now or ever intend to have them, but just in case you end up taking over care of a friend's or relative's kids or some other surprise life circumstance comes up, you would want that in place.
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Apparently Prince died without a will. I anticipate inheritance drama.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/26/news/companies/prince-no-will/
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Apparently Prince died without a will. I anticipate inheritance drama.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/26/news/companies/prince-no-will/
I'm sure there won't be dozens of people coming out of the woodwork to claim he was secretly their long-lost father...
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I have a hard time wrapping my head around the thought that the "House of Prince" didn't have all kinds of complicated trust work structured...He's sued, been sued too many times to not set up as many firewalls as possible...and his business management team may not have shared those arrangement with his formerly crack addicted sister who is claiming there is no known will.
That being said, some very (old) negative financial assessments exist that say getting paid by the Artists accounts payable department was a problem at least earlier in his career:
http://princetext.tripod.com/n_1995.html
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I lost my mom to cancer when I was a toddler and father married the step-mom-from-hell three years later. She worked tirelessly to turn my dad against my sister and I, to the point where (in his eyes) everything we did was wrong, wrong, wrong.
He died about 12 years ago and left me $1000 out of "spite". The step-family got a whole lot more but I didn't care. I happily invested the check.
The step-mom is still alive and will probably outlive both me and my sister because evil never dies.
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I lost my mom to cancer when I was a toddler and father married the step-mom-from-hell three years later. She worked tirelessly to turn my dad against my sister and I, to the point where (in his eyes) everything we did was wrong, wrong, wrong.
I had an evil step family too, and I totally sympathize. It was me vs. step-mom, step-grandma, and 4 older step-siblings. Step-sibs wanted something, it was, "Prove you're willing to be a father figure." I wanted something, it was, "Quit babying her/playing favorites."
Fortunately, step-mom was scamming my dad, planning from the beginning to have him pay for her kids' private school and then divorce him and take every dime she could get away with. So I only had to suffer for 5 years or so. Plus 15 years crippling self-esteem and anxiety issues, but eh. That which doesn't kill you, or whatever.
I'm sorry you lost both parents and your relationship with your dad. I've been fortunate to get back to a mostly normal relationship with mine.
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What is it with evil step-mothers? I guess the male comparison would be the step-dad as the drunken oaf. That being said, the evil step-mother meme has been around forever. Anyone here on MMM known as an evil step-mother willing to elaborate?
I myself have an evil step-mother. Wife and I have been killing her with kindness for years.... it drives her crazy. I'm fully aware that if I want to have any relationship with my father, I have to "handle" her behavior and demands, and pretend she is a normal person.
On the Inheritance Drama front, I'm also fully aware that my siblings and I will likely never get a penny once my father passes, and I've warned my siblings to ensure they don't need or expect it, either. Ahhh, love is blind, I guess.
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The male equivalent to the evil stepmother is either the pervo stepfather who molests the kids, or the abusive wingnut who beats the stuffing out of them.
Sadly, children are more likely to be abused or even murdered by Mommy's new romantic interest than by any other person.
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The male equivalent to the evil stepmother is either the pervo stepfather who molests the kids, or the abusive wingnut who beats the stuffing out of them.
Sadly, children are more likely to be abused or even murdered by Mommy's new romantic interest than by any other person.
I gotta say, while I'm not a general fan of Dr. Laura - she lives locally, and used to be on the radio on my way home from work (irony there, listening to Dr. Laura on my way to pick up my kid from daycare).
One thing that she used to say, that I don't disagree with for the most part, is to just not get married again if you have kids and get divorced or become a widow. Not that bad things always happen (they don't), but they are often so messy.
(That said, had my father followed that advice, I wouldn't be here!)
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I had an evil step family too, and I totally sympathize. It was me vs. step-mom, step-grandma, and 4 older step-siblings. Step-sibs wanted something, it was, "Prove you're willing to be a father figure." I wanted something, it was, "Quit babying her/playing favorites."
Fortunately, step-mom was scamming my dad, planning from the beginning to have him pay for her kids' private school and then divorce him and take every dime she could get away with. So I only had to suffer for 5 years or so. Plus 15 years crippling self-esteem and anxiety issues, but eh. That which doesn't kill you, or whatever.
Ugh! Yes, that which doesn't kill you, indeed. And living well is the best revenge, and I practice that daily.
Did she actually succeed in scamming your dad? It's a shame if she did.
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Evil Step-mom here!
This has been a fantastic discussion to follow as it has made me realize that we need to make some adjustments to my husband's will as each of his kids age out of their mother's home to include a percentage of his estate instead of leaving everything to me to distribute appropriately. That way, its clear that they got what their dad wanted them to have, and it isn't me "short-changing" them, or "buying" their love with money.
And in defense of the evil step mom....some of us really just want to be mom 2.0; someone a kid can come to love, trust, confide in, and maybe even need a little. Sometimes mom 1.0 makes that really hard and can make the kids feel like loving mom 2.0 is wrong and disloyal. So to all you Mom 1.0's out there, please encourage your kids to love their stepmom's as much as possible. You will never be replaced, but its awesome for a kid to not feel like he/she has to pick sides.
(prances off to encourage DH to adjust his will)
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Evil Step-mom here!
This has been a fantastic discussion to follow as it has made me realize that we need to make some adjustments to my husband's will as each of his kids age out of their mother's home to include a percentage of his estate instead of leaving everything to me to distribute appropriately. That way, its clear that they got what their dad wanted them to have, and it isn't me "short-changing" them, or "buying" their love with money.
And in defense of the evil step mom....some of us really just want to be mom 2.0; someone a kid can come to love, trust, confide in, and maybe even need a little. Sometimes mom 1.0 makes that really hard and can make the kids feel like loving mom 2.0 is wrong and disloyal. So to all you Mom 1.0's out there, please encourage your kids to love their stepmom's as much as possible. You will never be replaced, but its awesome for a kid to not feel like he/she has to pick sides.
(prances off to encourage DH to adjust his will)
I wouldn't call a step-mom evil just for being a step-mom. I also had a non-evil step-mom. (My dad married 5 times; my mom was wife #2 [and in a twist, was maid of honor at #1's wedding]. Evil step-mom was #3. #4 was also #5 and not evil during either stint. His current girlfriend of over a decade refuses to marry him--smart woman. She and I get along swimmingly.) But my evil step-mom was absolutely evil. Not only scamming my dad, but doing everything in her power (with the help of her hellspawn) to intentionally shatter my self confidence and any stability in my life.
Seems like you're the polar opposite of evil step-mom.
Did she actually succeed in scamming your dad? It's a shame if she did.
Oh yeah. Almost a decade of private school for her 4 hellspawn, and maybe a couple of years of college? Had him custom build a $500,000 house (in 1994 dollars) in an exclusive neighborhood. After a few years they sold at great profit and "downsized" to a more modest place in a more modest neighborhood.
Less than a year later she and the hellspawn went on a cruise on my dad's dime, and when they came back she wanted a divorce and presumably got half of all those house profits and alimony and whatever else. Details are fuzzy because I estranged myself once I was old enough to realize I had that option.
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My dad married 5 times; my mom was wife #2 [and in a twist, was maid of honor at #1's wedding].
My step father was the best man when my parent's got married! I love telling people that when I am explaining my family. (Also - my step mother was my father's secretary at one time...we hit all the cliches).
I have a non-evil step mother. And a non-evil step father. I am EXTREMELY lucky in the parents and step-parents department - four good ones.
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My dad married 5 times; my mom was wife #2 [and in a twist, was maid of honor at #1's wedding].
My step father was the best man when my parent's got married! I love telling people that when I am explaining my family. (Also - my step mother was my father's secretary at one time...we hit all the cliches).
I have a non-evil step mother. And a non-evil step father. I am EXTREMELY lucky in the parents and step-parents department - four good ones.
Ooh, does that mean you had 8 grandparents? My mom was my dad's secretary when he and #1 split, so I can check that box too!
I sometimes wish my mom had remarried (I'm confident that she has better taste than my father); I think she would have been happier. But she was burnt too badly by my dad to even date.
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Yeah, just chiming in to say that I have two awesom step-mothers and they are both very important people in my life.
My parents have also been very forthright about estate planning which is nice.
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My dad married 5 times; my mom was wife #2 [and in a twist, was maid of honor at #1's wedding].
My step father was the best man when my parent's got married! I love telling people that when I am explaining my family. (Also - my step mother was my father's secretary at one time...we hit all the cliches).
I have a non-evil step mother. And a non-evil step father. I am EXTREMELY lucky in the parents and step-parents department - four good ones.
Ooh, does that mean you had 8 grandparents? My mom was my dad's secretary when he and #1 split, so I can check that box too!
I sometimes wish my mom had remarried (I'm confident that she has better taste than my father); I think she would have been happier. But she was burnt too badly by my dad to even date.
Most of my grandparents passed long ago - only one of the original four was still alive when my parents divorced. But my step mother is significantly younger than my father (of course) and so I did gain two grandparents on that side. They are lovely. My (step) grandmother once struggled with how she should introduce me because she didn't like "step granddaughter" or "Jack's daughter" but the people that have known her awhile would be confused if she just called me her granddaughter. We settled on Bonus Granddaughter :)
My mom went on one date after the divorce and hated every minute of it. She didn't date again for 6 years. When a longtime friend ended up with lung cancer, she traveled to visit her several times. After she passed, mom hooked up with her friend's widow. They've been married 14 years now. I'm glad she married. She was perfectly fine single, but her life is a lot easier in many ways now.
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I have a non-evil step mom but it took quite a few years to figure that out. My (much) older sister firmly believes our step mom is evil and had me convinced for several years. I wised up and went neutral on the subject until my dad died a couple of years ago. At that point the actions of my sister showed me who was truly "evil".
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My wife prefers when people refer to me as an excellent step dad as opposed to her "trophy husband". She's been brilliant in most things in life, but her husband decisions have always cast some doubt on her :-)
And as for being a step parent, with zero practical training, it always seemed to come easy for me to determine what "First do no evil" meant. My daughter and my step daughter are both my daughters, no questions asked.
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This whole discussion just makes me want to give you all internet hugs. Such a great community...now, back to the drama please!
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This whole discussion just makes me want to give you all internet hugs. Such a great community...now, back to the drama please!
Thanks for the hugs!! You sound like a great step-mom. And yes, I know - and admire - many blended families that are working things out in an exemplary manner. We just happened to get the shit end of the stick, but then again Dad was no trip to the big leagues, nor was he a paragon of virtue ... just a bitter old man by the time he remarried (I was born when my parents were in their 40's ... very, very old in many ways for the "Mad Men" era, but not today).
Either you go the same path as your family or you change things. Me, I've tried to opt to not be a judgmental, classist, miserly, out-of-shape bigot. Hopefully succeeding.
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This whole discussion just makes me want to give you all internet hugs. Such a great community...now, back to the drama please!
Step-CheapskateWife seems like a very nice Step-person, I congratulate her!
On the other hand ..."Better a serpent than a stepmother!" Euripides
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This whole discussion just makes me want to give you all internet hugs. Such a great community...now, back to the drama please!
Step-CheapskateWife seems like a very nice Step-person, I congratulate her!
On the other hand ..."Better a serpent than a stepmother!" Euripides
No kidding! There is no love for the step-mom's of the world! At least as a serpent I could bite in self defense; as a step-mom, just have to grin and bear it.
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The posts about rationale for dividing up estates among differing generations and relationships were quite timely. DH and I are doing our wills in a couple weeks and trying to figure out a plan, and we are disagreeing.
We have no kids, but we each having a living parent or parents (one of his and both of mine), one sibling each, and 2 niece/nephews on his side.
A large % of the estate will go to a charity. Easy. He feels obligated to give something to the niece and nephew, not because he is close to them (we aren't close at all), but because he thinks it would be "weird not to". I disagree. I'm expecting (terrible word, but you hopefully know what I mean) nothing from any of aunts an uncles. It doesn't seem abnormal at all not to send money that way, though admitedly they all have kids to leave things to and we don't. These children are relative strangers to us, due to family drama, divorce, other messy things, and also to us living overseas for most of their lives thus far. And because DH and his family have never been emotionally close to each other.
My solution is that of the non-charity money, we each "get" 50% to allocated as we see fit. My parents have more money than they know what to do with. My sister and BIL (no kids) are very well off, but somewhat spendypants. I am sure they have savings and retirement so they are better off than most, but will probably not be able to RE, though my guess is that at ~60, they will have more than enough. I'd leave them all of the "my side" money, because I don't know where else I'd send it and because Sister will be our executor and dealing with some of the ILs warrants some compensation beyond the typical executor fee. ;) He would likely leave some to his mom who makes very solid money, but also spends most or all of it, as far as we can tell and shows no signs of ever being able to retire. Some would go to BIL, but for various reasons, leaving him large sums of money would be a bad idea, and the rest of that "side" would go to niece and nephew. DH can determine the %s as he sees fit.
My family will not care what we do. They are reasonable, sane people who are either great with money or at least not desperate or greedy.
Does this seem like a recipe for disaster? It could see my sibling getting 50% of the non-charity portion, and DH's sibling only getting 20% (or some other amount <50%). 50/50 among them is a bad idea, and it doesn't allow DH to help his mom, which he'd like to do. Leaving money to my parents to make it equal to what goes to MIL would be weird and silly. Thoughts?
I've heard the thing to do when making potential controversial decisions is to write a letter to the heirs. This way the decision can be explained, which can help the heirs understand why it's divided that way (but it's not in the will so it could be challenged).
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In regards to the question of parents having 2 kids, and those kids having an unequal number of kids (e.g. 1 versus 7), I fall into the camp of giving each grandkid a sum for college, depending on the estate (e.g. $25k on a $1 million estate), and splitting the bulk between the kids. This acknowledges each grandchild, while treating my children equally. If the kids don't want their share, I'd give their share equally amongst their kids.
First, because I would have had the choice of the number of kids I had and raised them. While I would love all grandkids, I would not have chosen the number of the grandkids or (presumably) raised them. It's not up to me to support the 7, it's up to the parent (my kid).
Second, I wouldn't know whether the kids would have more kids, adopt kids later in life, marry people with young children they raise as their own, etc. I sure as heck wouldn't be having more kids myself though. As someone marrying 10 years later in life than my siblings, who both married immediately after college, I'm sensitive to not penalizing people for later life decisions.
Third, because if you take the scenario further and imagine 1 kid has 0 children and the other has 7, I can't imagine cutting a child out of my will because they did not procreate, so why would I do something similar (to a lesser degree) if they simply procreated less?
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These stories are why I've been employed for the last 23 years :)
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I have a non-evil step mom but it took quite a few years to figure that out. My (much) older sister firmly believes our step mom is evil and had me convinced for several years. I wised up and went neutral on the subject until my dad died a couple of years ago. At that point the actions of my sister showed me who was truly "evil".
A story of drama, told with admirable brevity. Threshing strictly the wheat, no chaff!
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I might have already mentioned this on here a long while back, but in case I didn't, here's a pro tip that I learned from unfortunate personal experience with a family member's estate: PUT SOMETHING IN YOUR WILL THAT PREVENTS STUFF GOING TO AN ADULT ADOPTEE. Heirs sometimes adopt adults who are friends of theirs, lovers, whatever, solely to make that friend/lover/whatever inherit property from someone else. For instance, let's say granny leaves money in trust for a son; let's say she did it that way instead of just leaving the money for him to spend at will because he's terrible with money and she wanted to make sure his basic expenses would be covered so he wouldn't just waste all the money and end up in the gutter.
If you do this, any competent estate planner will have you also specify what happens to any money that's left in the trust if the beneficiary (the terrible-with-money son) dies. And if what you put is something along the lines of "the money goes to my descendants" (i.e. it gets split between your kids and/or grandkids, including any kids of the son), guess what? All your dissolute son has to do is adopt a friend of his and boom, a proportional chunk of your money will go to that random friend of his, diminishing the amount that goes to your kids/grandkids/etc. This works whether he adopts the friend before or after your death.
If your will is interpreted under Colorado law that won't happen, AFAIK, because Colorado law makes people who are adopted as adults the heirs of their adoptive parent(s) but not the legal relatives of anyone else in the family (only people adopted as children become relatives of the entire family). But in every other state whose law I'm familiar with, adult adoption works like regular adoption: it makes the adoptee a legal relative of the entire family, so any references in wills or trusts to descendants, children, grandchildren, etc., include that person. If you google it, you'll see a few court cases where the dissolute heirs of ultra-rich families adopted some random friend or lover to try and rope them into the fortune. It's not at all what the person making the will intended, but it's what happens.
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I might have already mentioned this on here a long while back, but in case I didn't, here's a pro tip that I learned from unfortunate personal experience with a family member's estate: PUT SOMETHING IN YOUR WILL THAT PREVENTS STUFF GOING TO AN ADULT ADOPTEE.
I'm not quite sure why this is a concern. You have money and leave it to a relative (let's say nephew). Isn't it his now? When he dies, wouldn't it now be part of his estate and go to whom his will dictates? So what if he wants to leave his stuff to a drunken friend? What if he had a feckless son? Would you try to take back what you willed beyond the grave?
Once you give a gift, doesn't it belong to the recipient?
Edited to say: I guess I don't understand how trusts work. So normally once the receptient dies, anything left in the trust goes back to the original estate?
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I might have already mentioned this on here a long while back, but in case I didn't, here's a pro tip that I learned from unfortunate personal experience with a family member's estate: PUT SOMETHING IN YOUR WILL THAT PREVENTS STUFF GOING TO AN ADULT ADOPTEE.
I'm not quite sure why this is a concern. You have money and leave it to a relative (let's say nephew). Isn't it his now? When he dies, wouldn't it now be part of his estate and go to whom his will dictates? So what if he wants to leave his stuff to a drunken friend? What if he had a feckless son? Would you try to take back what you willed beyond the grave?
Once you give a gift, doesn't it belong to the recipient?
Exactly. It's theirs to do with as they will, for good or ill.
On another note, an aunt of my wife died recently. She's always been reputed to be wealthy, with gobs of Krugerrands, etc.
My wife's worthless sister, who in her 50s still think the world revolves around her and her wants, has been sucking up to said aunt for the last couple of years as the aunt's health failed. This was so the aunt would give her all the money.
She's been playing the "I prayed and God told me to tell you to do {fill in the blank action that benefits her}." card ever since her dad died. When she pulled that on my wife, telling her that their recently departed father had appointed the sister as his spokesperson here on Earth.
"Oh, really? How did he do that? Did he phone you? Or send you a telex?" They haven't spoken since and that's been twenty five years or so. My wife won't put up with her crap and her sister knows it.
Anyway, the sister apparently overplayed her hand. She started telling the aunt that God had instructed her to tell the aunt to do {fill in the blank}." The aunt changed her mind and is only giving her a small amount, enough to pay off her house and car, instead. She was expecting multiple millions.
As disinterested parties, we find that very funny. Sadly, those who think they deserve all the aunt's money are now tying things up in court. That means the people who should really inherit it will get less after the legal fees and much delayed, as well. We don't have a dog in that hunt so it's no skin off our back either way.
This is the same sister who told her mom, back in 1999, that her mom should go ahead and put mom's house in sister's name. That way, when the nation imploded from the year 99 bug, sister in California could sell the property in WV. After all, with the country fallen apart, she wouldn't be able to get back to the homestead to do that. Her mom's response was "How stupid does she think I am?" along with "No."
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I might have already mentioned this on here a long while back, but in case I didn't, here's a pro tip that I learned from unfortunate personal experience with a family member's estate: PUT SOMETHING IN YOUR WILL THAT PREVENTS STUFF GOING TO AN ADULT ADOPTEE. Heirs sometimes adopt adults who are friends of theirs, lovers, whatever, solely to make that friend/lover/whatever inherit property from someone else. For instance, let's say granny leaves money in trust for a son; let's say she did it that way instead of just leaving the money for him to spend at will because he's terrible with money and she wanted to make sure his basic expenses would be covered so he wouldn't just waste all the money and end up in the gutter.
If you do this, any competent estate planner will have you also specify what happens to any money that's left in the trust if the beneficiary (the terrible-with-money son) dies. And if what you put is something along the lines of "the money goes to my descendants" (i.e. it gets split between your kids and/or grandkids, including any kids of the son), guess what? All your dissolute son has to do is adopt a friend of his and boom, a proportional chunk of your money will go to that random friend of his, diminishing the amount that goes to your kids/grandkids/etc. This works whether he adopts the friend before or after your death.
If your will is interpreted under Colorado law that won't happen, AFAIK, because Colorado law makes people who are adopted as adults the heirs of their adoptive parent(s) but not the legal relatives of anyone else in the family (only people adopted as children become relatives of the entire family). But in every other state whose law I'm familiar with, adult adoption works like regular adoption: it makes the adoptee a legal relative of the entire family, so any references in wills or trusts to descendants, children, grandchildren, etc., include that person. If you google it, you'll see a few court cases where the dissolute heirs of ultra-rich families adopted some random friend or lover to try and rope them into the fortune. It's not at all what the person making the will intended, but it's what happens.
In order to enforce this, or any attempt to control one's heirs beyond the grave, one has to set up a trust that is administered by a neutral third party such as a bank or a law firm. A person can put absolutely anything into their will, but the executor will ultimately do whatever he or she wants. You can sue after the fact if you get screwed over, but you can't prevent the person in charge of administering the estate to do what they want instead of following instructions.
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We recently re-did our wills, and the lawyer, who was kind of an ass (but we had no real choice as he was free and randomly assigned to use via the military) really balked when we said we didn't want to leave to any future kids. (We are both 40 and don't want kids; it ain't happening), and then again that we didn't want our secondary line of inheritance (if any of the first set pre-decede us). Our money goes to the zoo and a few other charities, and a portion to my side (sister, who has no kids, doesn't want them, and is older than I am) and a portion to DH's (mother, who certainly isn't having any more kids). If sister goes, my parents would get her share (though that seems unlikely) and if MIL goes, DH's brother would get the share going to his family.
If anyone adopts any kids or anything, that's on them, and doesn't change our views. Listing specific people makes it very clear that any future kids, natural or adopted or whatever, don't change things. Of course, this works for us because we don't have kids so we weren't worried about leaving out future offspring. But with these things, the more specific you can be, the better.
OTOH, I'll be dead. If there was some scenario where some adoptee (for the purposes of inheriting) got some of my money down the road, meh. Perhaps I'd feel differently if I had other kids, away from whom that would be taking money, but I don't. And I generally think that trying to control one's heirs from beyond the grave is manipulative and often creates from awful situations for families to wade through. Take what I offer, and if you spend it in a month on hookers and blow, whatever. Your problem, not mine.
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I had seen the toll that this sort of drama has taken on my father not long ago.
His sister had originally set up a trust and a will to pass on any inheritance equitably between families on her side, and her husband's side. She passed away after becoming suddenly incapacitated, then my Father had to make the decision to take her off life support given what was in the will and what we learned about her condition. Simultaneously, her husband was experiencing mid to late stage Alzheimers symptoms, and he wasn't all together. Shortly after the passing of my father's sister, her former husband begins 'dating' again. This quickly lead to money draining out of the Trust to pay for nightly dinners at expensive restaurants with the concept that they'll use that trust money instead of either of their accounts so that when my uncle passed away they could give the maximum inheritance to the uncles side of the family at the expense of our side of the family. Thats a pretty shitty thing to do, and to do it while exploiting someone's medical condition just makes it worse.
It wasn't much longer than a year or so till my Uncle passed away as well, leaving another battle to execute the trust, change lawyers, and clean up the mess.
My Father treated the trust as his Sister's last wishes and fought tooth and nail for it to be executed properly so he could finally achieve some peace of mind. That taught me something. He made it clear that I'll be the executor of their will in the future rather than my older sibling. I plan on being equitable, fair, and transparent. Money is the last thing I will want to think about when that day comes.
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I might have already mentioned this on here a long while back, but in case I didn't, here's a pro tip that I learned from unfortunate personal experience with a family member's estate: PUT SOMETHING IN YOUR WILL THAT PREVENTS STUFF GOING TO AN ADULT ADOPTEE.
I'm not quite sure why this is a concern. You have money and leave it to a relative (let's say nephew). Isn't it his now? When he dies, wouldn't it now be part of his estate and go to whom his will dictates?
Not if you leave it in trust, as in the example I gave. When you create a trust, you dictate who the beneficiary is and what happens to the money. Normally the interest, or the interest and some very small part of the principal, goes to the beneficiary and the only time major chunks of the principal can be paid out is for necessary expenses you define (medical care, education, etc.). The reason people do this can be because the beneficiary is terrible with money, or too old/incapacitated to deal with money, or is handicapped and you want to ensure they have money for major medical expenses for however long they live. Stuff like that.
And because you don't know how long the beneficiary will live, you have to dictate what happens to any remaining money if the beneficiary dies before it's all spent. You will probably want that remaining money to go to the people and/or charities of your choice. But if you set it up to go to "your descendants" or "your grandchildren" or any other defined group of relatives, which is usually how it's set up when it's not all going to charity, a relative of yours can do an adult adoption to bring in someone you never had any intention of giving it to. It could even bring in someone you specifically intended to disinherit. For instance, if you left it to "your descendants," a child of yours could adopt their girlfriend to make her one of your descendants, and then they get two shares of the money instead of just the one share you meant each of your children to get.
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Listing specific people makes it very clear that any future kids, natural or adopted or whatever, don't change things.
Listing specific people means that if they die before you, you have to go in and change your will, unless you put something in your will for that contingency (i.e. said who gets the money if they predecease you).
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I might have already mentioned this on here a long while back, but in case I didn't, here's a pro tip that I learned from unfortunate personal experience with a family member's estate: PUT SOMETHING IN YOUR WILL THAT PREVENTS STUFF GOING TO AN ADULT ADOPTEE.
I'm not quite sure why this is a concern. You have money and leave it to a relative (let's say nephew). Isn't it his now? When he dies, wouldn't it now be part of his estate and go to whom his will dictates?
Not if you leave it in trust, as in the example I gave. When you create a trust, you dictate who the beneficiary is and what happens to the money. Normally the interest, or the interest and some very small part of the principal, goes to the beneficiary and the only time major chunks of the principal can be paid out is for necessary expenses you define (medical care, education, etc.). The reason people do this can be because the beneficiary is terrible with money, or too old/incapacitated to deal with money, or is handicapped and you want to ensure they have money for major medical expenses for however long they live. Stuff like that.
And because you don't know how long the beneficiary will live, you have to dictate what happens to any remaining money if the beneficiary dies before it's all spent. You will probably want that remaining money to go to the people and/or charities of your choice. But if you set it up to go to "your descendants" or "your grandchildren" or any other defined group of relatives, which is usually how it's set up when it's not all going to charity, a relative of yours can do an adult adoption to bring in someone you never had any intention of giving it to. It could even bring in someone you specifically intended to disinherit. For instance, if you left it to "your descendants," a child of yours could adopt their girlfriend to make her one of your descendants, and then they get two shares of the money instead of just the one share you meant each of your children to get.
This is interesting because, as mentioned upthread, my grandfather died decades ago and left a trust to his children, but not to be disbursed until his second wife died (which she did, just recently). I got a packet yesterday mentioning that I get 1/7 of what's left after my uncles get 1/3. And...I can't figure out that math. My math tells me that it should be 1/12. Because my mom would have gotten 1/4 of the remaining (but she died first), and she has 3 kids.
But one of my aunts also died. And she has 3 kids. There are 2 living aunts. So I just can't come up with 1/7 in any way, shape, or form. My mom was the executor when my grandfather passed, so I'm going to chalk it up to my bad memory, or my just not understanding it all.
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This is interesting because, as mentioned upthread, my grandfather died decades ago and left a trust to his children, but not to be disbursed until his second wife died (which she did, just recently). I got a packet yesterday mentioning that I get 1/7 of what's left after my uncles get 1/3. And...I can't figure out that math. My math tells me that it should be 1/12. Because my mom would have gotten 1/4 of the remaining (but she died first), and she has 3 kids.
But one of my aunts also died. And she has 3 kids. There are 2 living aunts. So I just can't come up with 1/7 in any way, shape, or form. My mom was the executor when my grandfather passed, so I'm going to chalk it up to my bad memory, or my just not understanding it all.
I would ask the trustee. I'm not entirely clear, but it sounds like your grandfather had 6 children? (You said "uncles", your mother, one deceased aunt and two living aunts.) If so, then wouldn't each child get 1/6 and if the child had predeceased the step-mother, their heirs would split their share?
It could be that your grandfather designed the math to be funky, or it could be that the trustee is really bad with fractions.
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Listing specific people makes it very clear that any future kids, natural or adopted or whatever, don't change things.
Listing specific people means that if they die before you, you have to go in and change your will, unless you put something in your will for that contingency (i.e. said who gets the money if they predecease you).
That's what we did. X% to sister. If sister isn't around, her x% goes to dad. if dad isn't around, it goes to mom. In reality, if sister passes away, we'd likely redo the will. The only thing we didn't do a chain of if/thens for was the money going to charity. They are all major charities, extremely unlikely to disappear, but if that happens, admittedly there would be some mess for the executor.
Again, this may not be a good path for people who have kids, thus creating a more obvious chain of inheritance. But for us, it made much more sense than listing a category of people ("siblings"). Also, the % going to my side is going to a different relationship than the % going to DH's side (sister vs. mom) so it made the most sense to be very specific. We are fine with the possibility of having to redo the wills someday, so that's not a major concern. If several levels of people die in a catastrophe, it's possible we won't have enough layers, but in that case, even having listed levels of relationships rather than specific people would likely have done little good because we both have small immediate families.
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This is interesting because, as mentioned upthread, my grandfather died decades ago and left a trust to his children, but not to be disbursed until his second wife died (which she did, just recently). I got a packet yesterday mentioning that I get 1/7 of what's left after my uncles get 1/3. And...I can't figure out that math. My math tells me that it should be 1/12. Because my mom would have gotten 1/4 of the remaining (but she died first), and she has 3 kids.
But one of my aunts also died. And she has 3 kids. There are 2 living aunts. So I just can't come up with 1/7 in any way, shape, or form. My mom was the executor when my grandfather passed, so I'm going to chalk it up to my bad memory, or my just not understanding it all.
I would ask the trustee. I'm not entirely clear, but it sounds like your grandfather had 6 children? (You said "uncles", your mother, one deceased aunt and two living aunts.) If so, then wouldn't each child get 1/6 and if the child had predeceased the step-mother, their heirs would split their share?
It could be that your grandfather designed the math to be funky, or it could be that the trustee is really bad with fractions.
I'm voting bad with fractions!
Actually, there were 7 children.
4 boys, 3 girls
1 boy died young (ish), with a wife and 6 kids
1 of the other uncles was part of my grandpa's business, so he got his "inheritance" while still living
As I recall it, there was "money" in the trust that would get split between the 2 living uncles.
And there was the house, to be sold, that would be split among the 3 daughters and daughter-in-law.
The house was sold long before my step-grandmother died, as she preferred to move to her own home that she'd kept.
So I still can't figure out the 1/7...unless my living aunt got hers while living? (When the house sold, her son bought it, so maybe...?)
In any event, the trust folks can figure it out. By my calculation, it's about $5000, so I'm not going to sweat it. While it's nice to have the money, it means we'll have to file state taxes in TWO states for the year, whenever it all gets disbursed, which is a PITA.
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In any event, the trust folks can figure it out. By my calculation, it's about $5000, so I'm not going to sweat it. While it's nice to have the money, it means we'll have to file state taxes in TWO states for the year, whenever it all gets disbursed, which is a PITA.
Why will you have to file in TWO states? Did the estate have a business? You don't claim inheritance as income. Just curious.
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I follow this thread to observe the sheer dysfunction of some of the stories. Here is a pretty deep dive from the BH forum that has plenty of pros and cons :
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=191458
My takeaway remains the same: Cost justify having a proper will drawn up by a lawyer because instead of a DIY project, you have the benefit of a lawyer whose last appointment or next appointment is with a client involved in this type of a drama.
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In any event, the trust folks can figure it out. By my calculation, it's about $5000, so I'm not going to sweat it. While it's nice to have the money, it means we'll have to file state taxes in TWO states for the year, whenever it all gets disbursed, which is a PITA.
Why will you have to file in TWO states? Did the estate have a business? You don't claim inheritance as income. Just curious.
Straight inheritance: you are correct. But it's unclear what is in the trust. Some entities do create a taxable event. For example, annuities. Also, since this has been sitting in a trust for a while, I would assume even things like stocks are going to be taxable if sold. The basis would have been established on date of death. They could have increased in value since then.
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In any event, the trust folks can figure it out. By my calculation, it's about $5000, so I'm not going to sweat it. While it's nice to have the money, it means we'll have to file state taxes in TWO states for the year, whenever it all gets disbursed, which is a PITA.
Why will you have to file in TWO states? Did the estate have a business? You don't claim inheritance as income. Just curious.
Straight inheritance: you are correct. But it's unclear what is in the trust. Some entities do create a taxable event. For example, annuities. Also, since this has been sitting in a trust for a while, I would assume even things like stocks are going to be taxable if sold. The basis would have been established on date of death. They could have increased in value since then.
Yeah, pretty much this. PA requires it in any event. Had to do the same when my father passed away a few years ago.
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Mine is really sedate, and I just shake my head.
Grandpa got a cancer scare when I was ~14 and didn't want the guns in the house anymore (suicidal?). They were given to me for safe keeping, until I was old enough to keep them for real (huh?).
25 years later (grandpa passed 10 years ago), I found out that the pro gun control uncle has been pissed for 25 years that I have them. To his credit, he's hid it well (unless the relative who spilled the beans is making up stories). I offered to give them up on the condition that they come back to me. I was rebuffed, so it may all be a misunderstanding.
If you rant about the inappropriateness of firearms in homes, why would you be mad at being deprived of firearms in your home?
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Grandpa got a cancer scare when I was ~14 and didn't want the guns in the house anymore (suicidal?). They were given to me for safe keeping, until I was old enough to keep them for real (huh?).
25 years later (grandpa passed 10 years ago), I found out that the pro gun control uncle has been pissed for 25 years that I have them. To his credit, he's hid it well (unless the relative who spilled the beans is making up stories). I offered to give them up on the condition that they come back to me. I was rebuffed, so it may all be a misunderstanding.
If you rant about the inappropriateness of firearms in homes, why would you be mad at being deprived of firearms in your home?
So....he doesn't like guns, but he's upset that he didn't get them? Something doesn't add up here.
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If you rant about the inappropriateness of firearms in homes, why would you be mad at being deprived of firearms in your home?
Possibly because you want the chance to take them out of circulation by destroying them, or you want to sell them off and get the money they represent, which is its own kind of twisted.
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Grandpa got a cancer scare when I was ~14 and didn't want the guns in the house anymore (suicidal?). They were given to me for safe keeping.....
I found out that the pro gun control uncle has been pissed for 25 years that I have them.
Is it possible he thought the decision to give guns to a 14-year-old was inappropriate? I could see how someone could be concerned. That's right at the beginning of the rebellious, reckless years and also when a lot of people go through periods of depression. Maybe not. You know him, and I just read a paragraph about him in a post. I was trying to put a positive spin on it, because, yeah, otherwise it's just odd.
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Grandpa got a cancer scare when I was ~14 and didn't want the guns in the house anymore (suicidal?). They were given to me for safe keeping.....
I found out that the pro gun control uncle has been pissed for 25 years that I have them.
Is it possible he thought the decision to give guns to a 14-year-old was inappropriate? I could see how someone could be concerned. That's right at the beginning of the rebellious, reckless years and also when a lot of people go through periods of depression. Maybe not. You know him, and I just read a paragraph about him in a post. I was trying to put a positive spin on it, because, yeah, otherwise it's just odd.
I agree with Ann. If I found out my parents had given my 14-year-old nephew guns, I would be extremely concerned. But I would have brought it up to both sets of parents (my parents and the nephew's) as being a terrible idea. Maybe your uncle did that, was told that they were OK with the decision and he should butt out, and that view was what was told to you by your other relative.
And if my now-39-year-old nephew had offered me the guns back, I wouldn't take them. You're obviously trustworthy with guns at this point, and I don't want them in my house.
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Ah well, I've been exchanging info with my sister, and she remembers the same thing that I do about my grandfather's trust. So it seems the trust/ bank is messing things up.
#1: they are trying to give money in the trust to the 2 uncles. Um, no, they have a separate trust.
#2: the trust had $240k in it in 2007, and now has $180k. Hmm...fishy, when grandma was not touching the principal
#3: They are not interpreting the division correctly (the division by 7? Not correct. At best I should get 1/12, my aunt should get 1/4 not 1/7)
Anyway, my sister has asked for some documentation on the value of the trust every year since 2007. She also has a copy of the will, and plans to have a discussion about the proper splitting of the trust (to ensure that the lawyer is reading it correctly). In any event, they cannot disburse any funds until all of the beneficiaries agree. So I am very much happy to refuse to sign papers until they get it right. (To ensure my aunt gets her fair share, and that the uncles get nothing. Their separate trust has approx 1/2 million in it, they aren't entitled to any part of the second trust.)
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Why will you have to file in TWO states? Did the estate have a business? You don't claim inheritance as income. Just curious.
Straight inheritance: you are correct. But it's unclear what is in the trust. Some entities do create a taxable event. For example, annuities. Also, since this has been sitting in a trust for a while, I would assume even things like stocks are going to be taxable if sold. The basis would have been established on date of death. They could have increased in value since then.
I ran into this with an inheritance with a trust recently, my father passed away in state #1, so his estate owed state #1 income taxes for income that year, since he had lived there part of that year. My brother, the trustee for his living trust, lived in state #2, so the trust was considered to "reside" in state #2, and my brother had to pay state #2 income taxes for income generated while the money was in the trust.
[posted by mm1970]
"So it seems the trust/ bank is messing things up.
#1: they are trying to give money in the trust to the 2 uncles. Um, no, they have a separate trust.
#2: the trust had $240k in it in 2007, and now has $180k. Hmm...fishy, when grandma was not touching the principal
#3: They are not interpreting the division correctly (the division by 7? Not correct. At best I should get 1/12, my aunt should get 1/4 not 1/7)"
I've seen banks mess up with trusts and distributions, so definitely ask for documentation.
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I observed this little drama play out a few years ago with a friend of mine. This friend is bossy and is also, as Ive had to learn, often wrong. Her MO is to direct others in some activity yet what she is expecting to accomplish is often wrong in a big way.
So--her elderly father was failing and ahe moved in to take care of him. He became too frail for her to manage, and he went to a nursing home. A couple of years later, he died. She was living in his house still at the time since she was separated from her husband.
She is the eldest of a large family. She and the siblings got together to get their father's house ready to sell. It was small and old, not worth a lot of money, maybe $125,000 - $150,000. His estate which chiefly was made up of this house, was to be divided among about 8 children. I mentioned t her that I hoped she wasnt going to drag on the "fixup" since Id
seen too many people put more money into little old houses than they were worth, and I thought "as is" selling was the way to go in family estate situations.
But no, she was hell bent on improvements so that they could sell the house for top dollar. Her nephew was going to perform much of the repairs so they would "save money" that way. She paid for all materials and repair process drug on. Then the nephew was unable to complete the work due to an injury. My friend then funded some more work, hiring outside firms, from her anticipated proceeds of the house, and some of her siblings gave her money toward the repairs.
All siblings were becoming unhappy with the long period to settle the estate.
Finally, the house was ready. They sold it. But, Oops! Medicaid came after the proceeds! Medicaid took it all! My friend, very bossy and a know it all, didnt know it all about Medicaid and her father's estate. She got nothing and was actually OUT money for repairs, as were her siblings. Wait, she DID gain something: a whole lot of acrimony from her siblngs.
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Is it possible he thought the decision to give guns to a 14-year-old was inappropriate? I could see how someone could be concerned. That's right at the beginning of the rebellious, reckless years and also when a lot of people go through periods of depression. Maybe not. You know him, and I just read a paragraph about him in a post. I was trying to put a positive spin on it, because, yeah, otherwise it's just odd.
I had my own .22 rifle when I was in 8th grade. I bought it with my own money. I would have been 13 or so. I still think it was perfectly reasonable for me to own that rifle because I was a responsible, well-adjusted kid who actually listened to the safety rules and paid attention to them 100%.
I've also known 40 year olds who shouldn't be entrusted with anything that might be used as a weapon, to include cars.
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Finally, the house was ready. They sold it. But, Oops! Medicaid came after the proceeds! Medicaid took it all! My friend, very bossy and a know it all, didnt know it all about Medicaid and her father's estate. She got nothing and was actually OUT money for repairs, as were her siblings. Wait, she DID gain something: a whole lot of acrimony from her siblngs.
Oh, damn!
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This is more like pre-inheritance drama, related to me by my cousin.
My cousin's FIL arranges a meeting with the adult children and their spouses and his lawyer to brief the children on the FIL's estate plan. It's complicated but well planned. FIL uses vague numbers but it becomes obvious to my cousin and his siblings that there is likely to be a pretty nice sized inheritance for each child. The children aren't financial whizzes so there's really nothing to discuss, it's just FIL and the lawyer explaining the big picture so the children are aware. FIL wraps up his explanation, politely asking if there are any questions.
One of the children's spouses - not the child, the spouse - asks "So when Mr. Smith dies, how much would I get?"
My cousin said the lawyer jumped right in using that politician's tactic of appearing to answer a question but instead just talking in generalities and that diffused the tension. After the meeting broke up, my cousin approached the lawyer and thanked him for handling that awkward moment so effectively, and the lawyer said, "I've heard that question asked dozens of times just that way, and I'm always ready just in case."
Crazy.
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This is more like pre-inheritance drama, related to me by my cousin.
My cousin's FIL arranges a meeting with the adult children and their spouses and his lawyer to brief the children on the FIL's estate plan. It's complicated but well planned. FIL uses vague numbers but it becomes obvious to my cousin and his siblings that there is likely to be a pretty nice sized inheritance for each child. The children aren't financial whizzes so there's really nothing to discuss, it's just FIL and the lawyer explaining the big picture so the children are aware. FIL wraps up his explanation, politely asking if there are any questions.
One of the children's spouses - not the child, the spouse - asks "So when Mr. Smith dies, how much would I get?"
My cousin said the lawyer jumped right in using that politician's tactic of appearing to answer a question but instead just talking in generalities and that diffused the tension. After the meeting broke up, my cousin approached the lawyer and thanked him for handling that awkward moment so effectively, and the lawyer said, "I've heard that question asked dozens of times just that way, and I'm always ready just in case."
Crazy.
What. The. Hell.
I wonder if the estate plans suddenly got amended that day.
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This is more like pre-inheritance drama, related to me by my cousin.
My cousin's FIL arranges a meeting with the adult children and their spouses and his lawyer to brief the children on the FIL's estate plan. It's complicated but well planned. FIL uses vague numbers but it becomes obvious to my cousin and his siblings that there is likely to be a pretty nice sized inheritance for each child. The children aren't financial whizzes so there's really nothing to discuss, it's just FIL and the lawyer explaining the big picture so the children are aware. FIL wraps up his explanation, politely asking if there are any questions.
One of the children's spouses - not the child, the spouse - asks "So when Mr. Smith dies, how much would I get?"
My cousin said the lawyer jumped right in using that politician's tactic of appearing to answer a question but instead just talking in generalities and that diffused the tension. After the meeting broke up, my cousin approached the lawyer and thanked him for handling that awkward moment so effectively, and the lawyer said, "I've heard that question asked dozens of times just that way, and I'm always ready just in case."
Crazy.
What. The. Hell.
I wonder if the estate plans suddenly got amended that day.
No, but as it turned out that marriage broke up a couple years later, so the spouse who asked that question is now out of the picture. Probably unrelated to that crass question, there were other issues apparently.
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This is more like pre-inheritance drama, related to me by my cousin.
My cousin's FIL arranges a meeting with the adult children and their spouses and his lawyer to brief the children on the FIL's estate plan. It's complicated but well planned. FIL uses vague numbers but it becomes obvious to my cousin and his siblings that there is likely to be a pretty nice sized inheritance for each child. The children aren't financial whizzes so there's really nothing to discuss, it's just FIL and the lawyer explaining the big picture so the children are aware. FIL wraps up his explanation, politely asking if there are any questions.
One of the children's spouses - not the child, the spouse - asks "So when Mr. Smith dies, how much would I get?"
My cousin said the lawyer jumped right in using that politician's tactic of appearing to answer a question but instead just talking in generalities and that diffused the tension. After the meeting broke up, my cousin approached the lawyer and thanked him for handling that awkward moment so effectively, and the lawyer said, "I've heard that question asked dozens of times just that way, and I'm always ready just in case."
Crazy.
What. The. Hell.
I wonder if the estate plans suddenly got amended that day.
No, but as it turned out that marriage broke up a couple years later, so the spouse who asked that question is now out of the picture. Probably unrelated to that crass question, there were other issues apparently.
Unreasonable expectations from in-laws can be a symptom of other kinds of unreasonable behavior.
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This is more like pre-inheritance drama, related to me by my cousin.
My cousin's FIL arranges a meeting with the adult children and their spouses and his lawyer to brief the children on the FIL's estate plan. It's complicated but well planned. FIL uses vague numbers but it becomes obvious to my cousin and his siblings that there is likely to be a pretty nice sized inheritance for each child. The children aren't financial whizzes so there's really nothing to discuss, it's just FIL and the lawyer explaining the big picture so the children are aware. FIL wraps up his explanation, politely asking if there are any questions.
One of the children's spouses - not the child, the spouse - asks "So when Mr. Smith dies, how much would I get?"
My cousin said the lawyer jumped right in using that politician's tactic of appearing to answer a question but instead just talking in generalities and that diffused the tension. After the meeting broke up, my cousin approached the lawyer and thanked him for handling that awkward moment so effectively, and the lawyer said, "I've heard that question asked dozens of times just that way, and I'm always ready just in case."
Crazy.
What. The. Hell.
I wonder if the estate plans suddenly got amended that day.
No, but as it turned out that marriage broke up a couple years later, so the spouse who asked that question is now out of the picture. Probably unrelated to that crass question, there were other issues apparently.
Unreasonable expectations from in-laws can be a symptom of other kinds of unreasonable behavior.
This would be a brilliant reversed Joe Millionaire tactic! Pretend you're loaded, see how people react and when you finally find The One (who doesn't give a rat's ass about inheritance), you reveal that you're just Average Joe.
I would say I'd pay to watch that, but you guys know better...
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This is more like pre-inheritance drama, related to me by my cousin.
My cousin's FIL arranges a meeting with the adult children and their spouses and his lawyer to brief the children on the FIL's estate plan. It's complicated but well planned. FIL uses vague numbers but it becomes obvious to my cousin and his siblings that there is likely to be a pretty nice sized inheritance for each child. The children aren't financial whizzes so there's really nothing to discuss, it's just FIL and the lawyer explaining the big picture so the children are aware. FIL wraps up his explanation, politely asking if there are any questions.
One of the children's spouses - not the child, the spouse - asks "So when Mr. Smith dies, how much would I get?"
My cousin said the lawyer jumped right in using that politician's tactic of appearing to answer a question but instead just talking in generalities and that diffused the tension. After the meeting broke up, my cousin approached the lawyer and thanked him for handling that awkward moment so effectively, and the lawyer said, "I've heard that question asked dozens of times just that way, and I'm always ready just in case."
Crazy.
What. The. Hell.
I wonder if the estate plans suddenly got amended that day.
No, but as it turned out that marriage broke up a couple years later, so the spouse who asked that question is now out of the picture. Probably unrelated to that crass question, there were other issues apparently.
Unreasonable expectations from in-laws can be a symptom of other kinds of unreasonable behavior.
This would be a brilliant reversed Joe Millionaire tactic! Pretend you're loaded, see how people react and when you finally find The One (who doesn't give a rat's ass about inheritance), you reveal that you're just Average Joe.
I would say I'd pay to watch that, but you guys know better...
Wasn't there a reality TV show with that theme once?
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This is more like pre-inheritance drama, related to me by my cousin.
My cousin's FIL arranges a meeting with the adult children and their spouses and his lawyer to brief the children on the FIL's estate plan. It's complicated but well planned. FIL uses vague numbers but it becomes obvious to my cousin and his siblings that there is likely to be a pretty nice sized inheritance for each child. The children aren't financial whizzes so there's really nothing to discuss, it's just FIL and the lawyer explaining the big picture so the children are aware. FIL wraps up his explanation, politely asking if there are any questions.
One of the children's spouses - not the child, the spouse - asks "So when Mr. Smith dies, how much would I get?"
My cousin said the lawyer jumped right in using that politician's tactic of appearing to answer a question but instead just talking in generalities and that diffused the tension. After the meeting broke up, my cousin approached the lawyer and thanked him for handling that awkward moment so effectively, and the lawyer said, "I've heard that question asked dozens of times just that way, and I'm always ready just in case."
Crazy.
What. The. Hell.
I wonder if the estate plans suddenly got amended that day.
No, but as it turned out that marriage broke up a couple years later, so the spouse who asked that question is now out of the picture. Probably unrelated to that crass question, there were other issues apparently.
Unreasonable expectations from in-laws can be a symptom of other kinds of unreasonable behavior.
This would be a brilliant reversed Joe Millionaire tactic! Pretend you're loaded, see how people react and when you finally find The One (who doesn't give a rat's ass about inheritance), you reveal that you're just Average Joe.
I would say I'd pay to watch that, but you guys know better...
Wasn't there a reality TV show with that theme once?
Yes. It was actually called Joe Millionaire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Millionaire
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Oops I thought Joe Millionaire was a rich guy acting poor, not the other way around. That's what you get once you cut cable :)
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I thought I didn't have a story for here, but have realized I do.
When my MIL and FIL died I was left nothing, the estate went to my husband and his siblings. I didn't expect anything, why would they leave anything to spouses? And he decided what to do with the money.
When my father died my DH (now Ex) was all pissed because he was left nothing, after all the things he had done (basically cottage opening and closing and maintenance, from which we definitely benefited). Huh? You did what family does, you contributed and benefited, why should there be money? And he had lots of ideas about what to do with my inheritance. So what is yours is yours, but what is mine is (y)ours? Interesting attitude there.
One of the children's spouses - not the child, the spouse - asks "So when Mr. Smith dies, how much would I get?"
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I thought I didn't have a story for here, but have realized I do.
When my MIL and FIL died I was left nothing, the estate went to my husband and his siblings. I didn't expect anything, why would they leave anything to spouses? And he decided what to do with the money.
When my father died my DH (now Ex) was all pissed because he was left nothing, after all the things he had done (basically cottage opening and closing and maintenance, from which we definitely benefited). Huh? You did what family does, you contributed and benefited, why should there be money? And he had lots of ideas about what to do with my inheritance. So what is yours is yours, but what is mine is (y)ours? Interesting attitude there.
One of the children's spouses - not the child, the spouse - asks "So when Mr. Smith dies, how much would I get?"
We totally love our kids responsible spouses, but when we redid our will my lawyer strongly suggested not mentioning or involving them in any way, shape or form. Gift the inheritance to the kids, and "peace out". If they choose to co mingle the money into their family finances, that is a decision best left up to them. He told us several stories of other clients but the story above is the gist of them. Also told my kids to expect the same from their spouses- not a shared asset until they declare it so.
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I thought I didn't have a story for here, but have realized I do.
When my MIL and FIL died I was left nothing, the estate went to my husband and his siblings. I didn't expect anything, why would they leave anything to spouses? And he decided what to do with the money.
When my father died my DH (now Ex) was all pissed because he was left nothing, after all the things he had done (basically cottage opening and closing and maintenance, from which we definitely benefited). Huh? You did what family does, you contributed and benefited, why should there be money? And he had lots of ideas about what to do with my inheritance. So what is yours is yours, but what is mine is (y)ours? Interesting attitude there.
One of the children's spouses - not the child, the spouse - asks "So when Mr. Smith dies, how much would I get?"
We totally love our kids responsible spouses, but when we redid our will my lawyer strongly suggested not mentioning or involving them in any way, shape or form. Gift the inheritance to the kids, and "peace out". If they choose to co mingle the money into their family finances, that is a decision best left up to them. He told us several stories of other clients but the story above is the gist of them. Also told my kids to expect the same from their spouses- not a shared asset until they declare it so.
I signed some kind of document that stated I have no claim on my father in law's trust, as did all spouses of his children. It was fine with me, no big deal.
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We have something of an awkward situation. DH's grandfather died last year, there was a decent sized inheritance split 6 ways between his remaining child (DHs mom passed many years ago) and the 5 grandchildren. One sister has been greedy as all shit during the whole process, squirreling away items from the house, treating DH like crap that he wouldn't pay for HER and her husbands hotel room for the funeral (we let them stay in our room for 2 days until we went to stay with a friend who was in the area and having a difficult time), pretending like she's broke (and we know that unless they blew threw a large sum of cash they aren't) etc.
Well DH's dad and step mom are now getting a divorce. He was a HIGH income earner, she never worked. Reason for the divorce is pretty much he wanted to retire, she wanted to keep spending and got pissed when he wouldn't get another job after being laid off at 65. They sold the million dollar plus house, she took half, left him the rest (which is fine, they were married 20 years). DH's father is now living in an extended stay hotel, and has been for months, to the tune of several thousand a month between rent and storage locker expenses. DH offered to have his father stay with us (not what either of us want but it's family and you do what you have to, plus we move in 2-3 years to god knows where so we've told him that's his time limit to figure his shit out).
We live on the other side of the continent from his father. Sister calls this weekend, DH says he made the offer, sister tells him it's a bad idea (it is, we know it but what are you going to do) and then goes on and on and on, about all the stuff she wants out of his storage locker and how we can ship it to her etc. It's furniture, I"m not paying to ship HER furniture. We have no idea how she knows what's in the storage locker as she lives several states away. Sadly, this isn't the first time. We found out DH's mom had a storage locker of stuff that his dad was paying rent on to keep for when the kids got older. By the time we found out it even existed, the sisters had taken everything out of it and shut it down, we got a trunk that had a lot of family history out of the other sister. The other one, sold everything. DHs dad also did an unclaimed funds search and found like 30k from their moms estate, sister filled out the paperwork as DH was deployed. 3 years later he was like Huh, I wonder what happened with that. She'd gotten the money, and split it with the other sister, completely leaving DH out of it.
So she's got a ton of inheritance cash and stuff, and now she wants their fathers stuff. Dude isn't even dead yet, he's just possibly moving. And he needs the cash so if ANYTHING is going to happen to it, it's gonna be a Craigslist sale.
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I have another family inheritance drama. Long story, I hope I can simplify a little.
This one is about four older siblings and how their wills are set up. As you will see, the problem is not so much with the wills as it is with people who should mind their own business sticking their noses in.
Four siblings in their 70s, all retired. From oldest to youngest, they are Adam, Bob, Carl, and Denise.
Bob and Carl both married and have kids. Bob has two adult children, Robert and Roberta. Carl has one adult son, Carl Junior.
Neither Adam or Denise ever married. All four siblings had good jobs and retired comfortably. Adam owns the old family home, a building in the middle of their small town. That house is the single most valuable thing anyone in the family owns because it is next to town hall, the bank, all the shopping, etc. The house is kind of shabby and run-down, but the ground it is on is worth millions. Several people have wanted to buy it to build offices on, but Adam isn’t interested in selling. He plans to die there, and that is where the will comes in.
After retirement, Denise moved back into the family home with Adam, and when they wrote their wills, they each said that their entire estate went to each other. Then when the second one died, the estate would be split between the three niece/nephews. When Denise died several years ago, everything she had went to Adam. He’s in frail health now in his 80s, but keeps chugging along.
A few years after Denise died, Carl’s wife heard that Adam’s estate would skip over the Carl/Bob generation and go to the younger generation. She started agitating with Carl, and she and Carl went to Adam and convinced him this wasn’t the right/smart thing to do. The next thing you know, Adam changed his will, splitting his estate 50/50 between Carl and Bob. Mr. and Mrs. Carl claim that it’s because brothers/nearest kin will pay fewer taxes than their kids would. I have NO idea if this is true or not, all this drama is taking place in Europe, and I don’t know what inheritance laws are like there.
Under the original will, Robert, Roberta, and Carl Junior would each receive 33.3% of the Adam/Denise estate.
Under the new will, Carl and Bob each get 50% of the Adam/Denise estate. Their kids get nothing.
If Carl and Bob each put their inheritance away and never touched a cent of it, and left it to their children, equally, Robert and Roberta would get 25% of the original Adam/Denise estate and Carl Jr. would get 50% of it.
Mr. and Mrs. Bob then got mad at the Carls, and the person who was madder than anyone was Roberta. At one point, she had expectations of 33.3% of a very large estate. Now, if her parents inherit, even if they never touch a dime of the worth of the house, she’s only going to get 25% of it, because her parents will split the value evenly between Robert and Roberta. Possibly her parents will spend the money they inherited on slot machines and blow and she’ll never see a dime of it. She will also have to wait longer for any possible inheritance she does inherit, because her father is considerably younger than Adam. She’s also pissed because Mrs. Carl, who is not even a blood relation stuck her nosy nose in and got that will changed. This benefits the Carls and Carl Junior. One might say she should be mad at Adam...but it's always easier to be mad at non-relatives, and honestly...Mrs. Carl is a buttinski.
Robert, Roberta, and Carl Junior all get along, and are trying not to let this family drama change their relationships, but it is hard. Roberta can barely be in the same room with Mrs. Carl and for several years the Carls and the Bobs had a definite coolness between them. The brothers have made up, but the wives still are not very warm with each other.
My personal feeling is that since Adam and Denise made their plans, and she died believing her wishes would be honored, it wasn’t right of Carl and Mrs. Carl to get things changed to benefit them. I am a distant inlaw to Carl and his wife and have kept my nose out of it and have not shared my opinions with anyone, I just watch and wonder how it will all shake out.
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I have another family inheritance drama. Long story, I hope I can simplify a little.
This one is about four older siblings and how their wills are set up.
This sounds like s classic example of the age old conflict between per capita and per stirpes distribution.
I think grandkids should butt out, in virtually every scenario. You are "entitled" to nothing.
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I have another family inheritance drama. Long story, I hope I can simplify a little.
This one is about four older siblings and how their wills are set up.
This sounds like s classic example of the age old conflict between per capita and per stirpes distribution.
I think grandkids should butt out, in virtually every scenario. You are "entitled" to nothing.
See, I think the in-laws should butt out. They're less "entitled" to anything than the niece/nephews. Adam and Denise made a decision that they would pass along their estate(s) to the niece/nephews in equal shares. Presumably because they wanted to be "fair" and give each one an equal part. Not half to CJ and quarters to Robert and Roberta.
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I have another family inheritance drama. Long story, I hope I can simplify a little.
This one is about four older siblings and how their wills are set up.
This sounds like s classic example of the age old conflict between per capita and per stirpes distribution.
I think grandkids should butt out, in virtually every scenario. You are "entitled" to nothing.
See, I think the in-laws should butt out. They're less "entitled" to anything than the niece/nephews. Adam and Denise made a decision that they would pass along their estate(s) to the niece/nephews in equal shares. Presumably because they wanted to be "fair" and give each one an equal part. Not half to CJ and quarters to Robert and Roberta.
Everything should have gone into a trust, before anyone died. Make it so it can't be changed. Would've avoided all of this.
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I have another family inheritance drama. Long story, I hope I can simplify a little.
This one is about four older siblings and how their wills are set up.
This sounds like s classic example of the age old conflict between per capita and per stirpes distribution.
I think grandkids should butt out, in virtually every scenario. You are "entitled" to nothing.
See, I think the in-laws should butt out. They're less "entitled" to anything than the niece/nephews. Adam and Denise made a decision that they would pass along their estate(s) to the niece/nephews in equal shares. Presumably because they wanted to be "fair" and give each one an equal part. Not half to CJ and quarters to Robert and Roberta.
I agree with both of you. Mrs. Carl (and Carl) were likely out of line in working to convince A to change his will, since I think that's generally no one else's business and it is in poor taste to badger someone in to leaving you money. On the other hand, A has every right to change his will for whatever reason (even if that reason is a bug in his ear from the Carls), and for the kids to be upset about it does seem to smack of entitlement. He's decided the new plan is best. That should be the end of it.
D should have left her estate in a trust. It's unfortunate that A changed his mind and went back on his word, but that's a risk D took.
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Long time lurker, first time poster here since I have a story to contribute to this awesome thread.
An uncle on my mother's side was very ill with cancer back in the mid 90's, and while undergoing aggressive treatment he met and married a gold-digging woman (GD), who became pregnant shortly thereafter. A daughter was born and his cancer went into remission. After a few years uncle and GD separate, with the daughter living with GD.
Uncle's cancer returned in early 2010's so he modified his will to leave everything to his daughter, with the majority of his estate in a trust to be available to her when she is 30 years old (she is 17y/o at that point and still under control of GD). He appoints my mother as the executor of his estate since he entrusts her to protect it from GD, and states to his lawyer that GD is not allowed to live in his house if he were to die. A year later he becomes terminally ill and enters hospice care.
Extended family comes to take care of him in his home in his final days, where he starts to give away his belongings, basically telling us to take whatever we wanted. It was a pretty sad and difficult time for everyone, especially for my older grandparents who are in their late 80s/early 90s. GD and Daughter have to be told to come see him since he was asking to see his daughter. Daughter would rather see movies and wanted GD to drive her back to the gas station they just filled up at because some hot guys were 'hollering' at her. We were all disappointed that GD was actually entertaining the thought. (Actually, we weren't that surprised).
My uncle passed away and a memorial was held at a restaurant with 50+ attendees. GD and Daughter arrived extremely late and walked in while the eulogy was being given by my siblings and I. Grandparents scatter his ashes without GD and Daughter since they did not care to ask. The house is appraised & inspected since executor wants to put it up for sale (uncle's wishes) with the proceeds going back to the trust. House is deemed not in livable condition, as renovations would be tens of thousands of dollars, which are not available.
GD lawyers up and contests the sale of the house, at which point funds start draining profusely from the estate. GD accuses family from stealing property that was in the house since they were not there when he was giving away his belongings. GD's 30y/o son from a previous marriage accuses my 90 year old WWII Vet grandfather from stealing money from his own son. My grandfather is the most honest man I've ever known and had absolutely no reason to steal anything.
Daughter becomes pregnant within a year (called it!) and together with GD wastes a lot of time/$$ with the estate's lawyer and GD's lawyer. They take it to court and basically continue to duke it out till there are very little funds left. To my knowledge the house is being sold, or has been sold at this point. It's a very unfortunate tale for the daughter and her kid and I expect that a lot of funds could have been preserved if they just allowed the sale of the house from the very beginning, or had a better relationship with the family.
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Long time lurker, first time poster here since I have a story to contribute to this awesome thread.
complete shitshow
Sounds like they got exactly what they deserve. I feel bad for your mother, though.
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Long time lurker, first time poster here since I have a story to contribute to this awesome thread.
complete shitshow
Sounds like they got exactly what they deserve. I feel bad for your mother, though.
Poetic justice.
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I hope I never have something for this thread. I had a call from my parents several months ago. They have many years to go, but are making plans should anything be left. I'm the youngest of 6 kids and they put me in charge of the trust. Wonder how that will go over when everyone else finds out....
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I hope I never have something for this thread. I had a call from my parents several months ago. They have many years to go, but are making plans should anything be left. I'm the youngest of 6 kids and they put me in charge of the trust. Wonder how that will go over when everyone else finds out....
I'm pretty sure I'm still co-executor of my dad's will. None of my siblings would fuss because not only am I the responsible one, none of us is really interested in inheriting anything. My financial advice to my dad is to live it up and spend everything he has. :)
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I hope I never have something for this thread. I had a call from my parents several months ago. They have many years to go, but are making plans should anything be left. I'm the youngest of 6 kids and they put me in charge of the trust. Wonder how that will go over when everyone else finds out....
I would encourage your parents to be up front about it and tell everyone now, so they can hear it from mom and dad instead of mom and dad's lawyer. My parents have made my sister the executor and they were very upfront about that. (I'm not at all upset. I trust my sister and it's generally a pain in the ass job, with little reward.) But the point is that my parents sat us down together, went over the basics of their estate, which bank has the safe deposit box, and a few other details, and told us, together. The news is going to go over much better that way, and if someone feels inclined to argue his case for begin executor instead, he has a chance to do it (though in most cases he'd be an ass for doing so). These things are always much worse when they are surprises. Ask mom and dad to please let everyone know.
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My father made a will splitting everything three ways among me and my sisters, made my husband his executor, and told us all upfront. I think his idea in choosing my husband was not to pick one daughter over the others, and neither of my sisters is married. The three of us think it's an impractical choice (one of my sisters lives in the same city as my father, whereas my husband and I live in a different country) but whatever, it's his decision. We get along great and I don't expect any drama, based on previous relatives's estates. If anything the sister in the city is probably relieved to be off the hook!
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I hope I never have something for this thread. I had a call from my parents several months ago. They have many years to go, but are making plans should anything be left. I'm the youngest of 6 kids and they put me in charge of the trust. Wonder how that will go over when everyone else finds out....
I would encourage your parents to be up front about it and tell everyone now, so they can hear it from mom and dad instead of mom and dad's lawyer. My parents have made my sister the executor and they were very upfront about that. (I'm not at all upset. I trust my sister and it's generally a pain in the ass job, with little reward.) But the point is that my parents sat us down together, went over the basics of their estate, which bank has the safe deposit box, and a few other details, and told us, together. The news is going to go over much better that way, and if someone feels inclined to argue his case for begin executor instead, he has a chance to do it (though in most cases he'd be an ass for doing so). These things are always much worse when they are surprises. Ask mom and dad to please let everyone know.
I agree, this caused a shitstorm when my father, the youngest of 4, turned out to be the executor.
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I hope I never have something for this thread. I had a call from my parents several months ago. They have many years to go, but are making plans should anything be left. I'm the youngest of 6 kids and they put me in charge of the trust. Wonder how that will go over when everyone else finds out....
I would encourage your parents to be up front about it and tell everyone now, so they can hear it from mom and dad instead of mom and dad's lawyer. My parents have made my sister the executor and they were very upfront about that. (I'm not at all upset. I trust my sister and it's generally a pain in the ass job, with little reward.) But the point is that my parents sat us down together, went over the basics of their estate, which bank has the safe deposit box, and a few other details, and told us, together. The news is going to go over much better that way, and if someone feels inclined to argue his case for begin executor instead, he has a chance to do it (though in most cases he'd be an ass for doing so). These things are always much worse when they are surprises. Ask mom and dad to please let everyone know.
I agree, this caused a shitstorm when my father, the youngest of 4, turned out to be the executor.
Yep, best to be upfront now. In fact, my parents asked me to be the executor (due to my profession), and I said I'd be happy to - but suggested they check with my older sister first to make sure she'd be ok with it. It turned out she wanted to be executor (and lived in the same state, closer to my parents by an hour), so they made her it. Then they didn't want anyone to feel left out so they made each of us 3 kids primary one item and secondary on another (will, health care proxy &...I can't remember the third).
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I thought I didn't have a story for here, but have realized I do.
When my MIL and FIL died I was left nothing, the estate went to my husband and his siblings. I didn't expect anything, why would they leave anything to spouses? And he decided what to do with the money.
When my father died my DH (now Ex) was all pissed because he was left nothing, after all the things he had done (basically cottage opening and closing and maintenance, from which we definitely benefited). Huh? You did what family does, you contributed and benefited, why should there be money?
Maybe he didn't deserve anything, I don't disagree, but let me tell you the flip side of that story: My wife (along with her 2 sisters) will be a 1/3rd beneficiary to a substantial inheritance, a large part of which is vacation properties. The properties are very maintenance intensive. The other two siblings don't use them as much as we do (one lives far away, the other just doesn't, and part of the reason we go there as much as we do is as a favor to my wife's parents) but we know all will be split evenly. As the inlaws age, there has been a push for the daughters (and their families) to start taking over some of the work on the properties. I've resisted as much as I politely can, because A) the other two families don't contribute much, if at all, and we already contribute some, and B) I will not be inheriting anything personally, and even if my wife rolls it in with our assets, I still won't be able to sell because of sentimentality and the three sisters will never agree to. So, basically, I would be setting a precedent of doing a lot of work so others could enjoy property I don't really have a stake in. I'm not interested in doing that. So I kinda see if your spouse was spending a lot of his free time maintaining something for everyone to enjoy, feeling a little screwed.
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Digging deep into the family annals for this one:
My great-grandfather on my dad's side had two kids. Bob (my grandfather, currently 86) and Delores (passed at ~90 a few years back).
At some point while Bob was still a minor, G-Gpa made Delores the executor of the will. Once Bob got out of college, G-Gpa decided to make him the executor because he was more stable/responsible. Delores also had some vindictive tendencies - I guess she never really forgave Bob for being born and stealing her "only child" status. G-Gpa was worried she'd try to fight his wishes and keep everything for herself out of spite for Bob, but knew Bob would be fair.
Unfortunately, nobody ever told Delores she wasn't the executor anymore. Bob assumed G-Gpa had informed Delores, and since it never came up in conversation, she spent DECADES assuming she'll be the one "in charge" after G-Gpa passes.
G-Gpa eventually does pass, and it's only when Delores shows up to the lawyer's office after the funeral that she learns that Bob is the executor. Throws a fit, accusing Bob of trying to "steal what's hers." My grandpa may have his flaws, but being dishonest isn't one of them. Bob follows the will down to the letter. He actually felt guilty that Delores was only finding out at that moment, he'd really had no idea that she didn't know. He went so far as to give her certain pieces from the estate that were specifically willed to him, knowing they had sentimental value to her, trying to smooth things over.
Didn't help, though. Delores refused to talk to Bob for 30+ years.
She eventually started to come around somewhere in her late 70s. Grandpa got a few years of civility before she started to develop dementia, and then tried to help with that burden as much as he could.
It's a weird dichotomy, G-Gpa was this legendary badass of a man (worked in a shipyard forging huge anchor chains at 12 years old, was athletic and flexible enough in his 70s to kick the top of a doorframe, etc), but his whole legacy was stained by this awful relationship his children had.
Thankfully, Grandpa saw firsthand what can happen when communication isn't clear around wills and last wishes. Goes out of his was every time the family is together to mention any changes and make sure everybody is on the same page. I'll be shocked if there's any drama when he passes.
Mom's side, on the other hand... that grandpa refuses to say anything. Hinted once that it's not an even four-way split between his kids, so none of the four daughters have any clue what they're getting, or why their share could be different than their sisters'. That one's going to be a powder keg.
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While not dramatic, I found it pretty interesting.
When my maternal grandmother passed, my aunts and uncles went about cleaning up the old homestead. My grandfather was trying to downsize into a much smaller home. It was a very emotional time for all of them. My mother and her sister were born in that house and my grandparents had built it with their own two hands. Anyways, while they were cleaning up the attic/kids room, they found over twenty coffee cans stuffed with cash. All different denominations. My grandfather had known nothing about it. There were also some bonds that had matured over 20 years prior. I can't imagine what amounts that money would've generated had she invested it. It would've been invested during the late 80's to late 90's had she not stashed it away.
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I thought I didn't have a story for here, but have realized I do.
When my MIL and FIL died I was left nothing, the estate went to my husband and his siblings. I didn't expect anything, why would they leave anything to spouses? And he decided what to do with the money.
When my father died my DH (now Ex) was all pissed because he was left nothing, after all the things he had done (basically cottage opening and closing and maintenance, from which we definitely benefited). Huh? You did what family does, you contributed and benefited, why should there be money?
Maybe he didn't deserve anything, I don't disagree, but let me tell you the flip side of that story: My wife (along with her 2 sisters) will be a 1/3rd beneficiary to a substantial inheritance, a large part of which is vacation properties. The properties are very maintenance intensive. The other two siblings don't use them as much as we do (one lives far away, the other just doesn't, and part of the reason we go there as much as we do is as a favor to my wife's parents) but we know all will be split evenly. As the inlaws age, there has been a push for the daughters (and their families) to start taking over some of the work on the properties. I've resisted as much as I politely can, because A) the other two families don't contribute much, if at all, and we already contribute some, and B) I will not be inheriting anything personally, and even if my wife rolls it in with our assets, I still won't be able to sell because of sentimentality and the three sisters will never agree to. So, basically, I would be setting a precedent of doing a lot of work so others could enjoy property I don't really have a stake in. I'm not interested in doing that. So I kinda see if your spouse was spending a lot of his free time maintaining something for everyone to enjoy, feeling a little screwed.
Yeah, different circumstances. Opening and closing (the heavy duty stuff) were group effort, all hands on deck. We did more regular maintenance than my sister and her family, but we used the cottage a lot more too. Actually, I did a lot of the general maintenance (things like cutting the grass) since I was there more than Ex. General expenses were evenly split.
TBH, my Ex has a well developed sense of entitlement. He would laugh himself sick at the mustachian attitudes on this forum. Which is why I am in better financial shape at this point, even though the divorce cost me a lot more than it cost him.
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My Mom's family is going to be a 'best of' the worst parts of this thread when my Grandmother finally passes. My Mom is the oldest girl (third kid) out of 13 kids. 8 girls, 5 boys. One of the boys died of cancer in the 90s. My Grandparents are/were terrible people. Beat their kids with leather belts to the point where it's not, 'back in my day you spanked your kids' but actual, full-on abuse. Girls are/were worthless. At least the youngest 4 girls were sexually molested by family. It's still pretty hush-hush so I'm not sure if it was an older brother or uncle or cousin or even a bit of all three. I think my Mom escaped as she was either too old or too big as she is a big-boned, muscular, German Woman. Grandma wouldn't do anything about it because she didn't want to cause a scene in a small town and girls weren't valuable enough to get into that. At Christmas I go back and ask my Grandma how she is doing, "I'm doing good. I have THREE BOYS WHO TAKE GOOD CARE OF ME." Raising her voice so everybody around her can hear. Never mind that my Aunt took 2 weeks off work to stay with her while she was sick and has driven her to all her doctors appointments for years or that other Aunts come and bring her food or clean her house for her. It's a farm family so the boys take care of the cows and that is what matters most. The only good thing I can say about my Grandma is that she would run interference for my Mom and Aunts and let them know when my Grandpa was coming in the house because if he caught any of the girls reading a book or studying for school, he would beat them with the leather belt. Not only were the boys greatly favored over the girls, the 4 blonde haired boys were preferred over the one dark haired boy, who was still way better than any of the girls. Not a big fan of my Grandparents but I'm sure I'm jaded a bit by my Mom's view on all of this because she was more of a mother to her sisters at a young age and took care of them and was there to comfort them after being abused than their actual Mother was. I'm an only child as my Mother had already raised a family.
With it being a farm family, most of the wealth is tied up in the farmhouse, land, cattle and machinery. Cattle and machinery can be sold easily. The problem is going to be the land. Lots of farming families want to keep the land in the family. The boys feel like it should stay in the family since they have worked it all their lives, so they should just get it. They forget that the girls were out working the land as well, then had to come, prepare the food, clean up, and then go back out to the fields as well. Take the land away from the estate, there isn't going to be much left over for the girls if it's divided that way. If it's forced to sale to make it a fair split, the boys are going to be pissed because that was the family land. It's a standoff. There is no way for the estate to be split without half the family being pissed off. Nobody knows for sure what the will says. There are rumors that Grandma said, "It's not what people are expecting." Well, the boys are expecting all the land. Some of the boys may even be expecting more than just an even split of the land for themselves. And the girls are expecting things to be even. And nobody knows what will happen with the share of the one brother that already passed. Nobody even knows for sure who the executor(s) are.
I'm betting the land is going to the boys. They've been favored this long, why not keep the abuse up even after death? My Grandfather was a cheapskate, too miserly to be called Mustachian. A couple years before he died, he bought his first brand-new anything, a John Deere tractor. Despite having plenty of shed space a their place, he decided to store it at two of the boys' houses (one lives across the fence line, 1/4 mile drive out and around, and the other 1/4 mile down the road). A couple of my Great Aunts died recently and between initial inventory and the dividing of things out, valuable items (jewelry, gold and silver coins) went missing after some of the boys showed up. They've been favored for too long for my Grandmother to see anything else. Time will tell. My Grandmother is getting more frail and really shouldn't be living by herself in that farm house any more, so it could be sooner rather than later.
The sad part of this is the family part. One Thanksgiving get together my Grandmother was pissed because so many were going to their in-laws that she said, "If only 75 people are going to be here, why even have it!" It's a huge family and it's fun to go back a couple times a year as there is perpetually a baby, toddlers and kids of every age as there are so many different stages of life in the family, somebody is constantly having a baby. It's going to be torn to shreds once my Grandmother is gone and the money fight commences.
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OMG Bobberth, that's a rough story. i'd suggest auctioning the land..and if the boys want to buy it (together even), they can.
I know a situation that has none of the abuse or meanness, but all of the the-boys-should-get-the-land stuff. The irony is, none of the boys outlived the grandmother, so if there had actually been a will (instead of the 'understanding that boys inherit'), daughter-in-laws would have inherited all of the 'family' land.
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Wow - what a screwed up set of values our elders had back then. Boys vs girls, basically considered them different species, the different races, etc.
Clearly the sexes are different in obvious ways (personalities, priorities, etc) but I have never seen a reason to make women take a back seat to the men except in feats of physical strength.
I hope humanity always continues to evolve....
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Wow - what a screwed up set of values our elders had back then. Boys vs girls, basically considered them different species, the different races, etc.
Clearly the sexes are different in obvious ways (personalities, priorities, etc) but I have never seen a reason to make women take a back seat to the men except in feats of physical strength.
I hope humanity always continues to evolve....
Locally there are a few cultures where all the material wealth is owned or controlled by women, and it's been that way since before recorded history. The Acoma and Navajo nations come to mind. Except for a few things like kivas where women aren't allowed, men own diddly-squat. On Navajo, a man's belongings are inherited by his sister's children. Overall it's led to a lot of depression and apathy among the men especially when they see men in other cultures leading a more equal life. I think that being screwed over sucks no matter what gender you are.
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OMG Bobberth, that's a rough story. i'd suggest auctioning the land..and if the boys want to buy it (together even), they can.
I know a situation that has none of the abuse or meanness, but all of the the-boys-should-get-the-land stuff. The irony is, none of the boys outlived the grandmother, so if there had actually been a will (instead of the 'understanding that boys inherit'), daughter-in-laws would have inherited all of the 'family' land.
I just gotta pipe up to say that if grandma's (or whoever's) will says "I leave my land to my sons X, Y and Z" but X, Y and Z predecease her, that doesn't mean the land goes to the widows of X, Y and Z. It doesn't go to their widows because it didn't get to them first--in other words, it never became part of the property of X, Y and Z because they died before it could, and so it wasn't theirs to leave to their widows.
When the beneficiaries die before the person who wrote the will, the gift is said to "lapse." In practice what that means, at least in most states, is that the gift--in this case, the land--reverts to the estate of the person who wrote the will, and gets distributed however the rest of the estate is supposed to be distributed. For instance, if the will says "my land goes to my sons X, Y and Z and the remainder of my estate goes to my grandniece Eunice," then Eunice gets the land too. Most states have passed laws to get around that, but that means your land will pass however state law says it should--which may mean it goes to someone you didn't intend it to go to.
If you don't want that to happen with your estate, you have to say in your will who gets the land (or whatever other bequest) if the intended beneficiary predeceases you.
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Wow - what a screwed up set of values our elders had back then. Boys vs girls, basically considered them different species, the different races, etc.
Clearly the sexes are different in obvious ways (personalities, priorities, etc) but I have never seen a reason to make women take a back seat to the men except in feats of physical strength.
I hope humanity always continues to evolve....
Yeah, I guess in my home town, the girls were supposed to be taken care of by their husbands.
i think that's why my grandpa's estate went the way it did. (half a million to the 2 boys, $180k to the 3 girls, one surviving daughter in law)
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My Mom's family is going to be a 'best of' the worst parts of this thread when my Grandmother finally passes. My Mom is the oldest girl (third kid) out of 13 kids. 8 girls, 5 boys. One of the boys died of cancer in the 90s. My Grandparents are/were terrible people. Beat their kids with leather belts to the point where it's not, 'back in my day you spanked your kids' but actual, full-on abuse. Girls are/were worthless. At least the youngest 4 girls were sexually molested by family. It's still pretty hush-hush so I'm not sure if it was an older brother or uncle or cousin or even a bit of all three. I think my Mom escaped as she was either too old or too big as she is a big-boned, muscular, German Woman. Grandma wouldn't do anything about it because she didn't want to cause a scene in a small town and girls weren't valuable enough to get into that. At Christmas I go back and ask my Grandma how she is doing, "I'm doing good. I have THREE BOYS WHO TAKE GOOD CARE OF ME." Raising her voice so everybody around her can hear. Never mind that my Aunt took 2 weeks off work to stay with her while she was sick and has driven her to all her doctors appointments for years or that other Aunts come and bring her food or clean her house for her. It's a farm family so the boys take care of the cows and that is what matters most. The only good thing I can say about my Grandma is that she would run interference for my Mom and Aunts and let them know when my Grandpa was coming in the house because if he caught any of the girls reading a book or studying for school, he would beat them with the leather belt. Not only were the boys greatly favored over the girls, the 4 blonde haired boys were preferred over the one dark haired boy, who was still way better than any of the girls. Not a big fan of my Grandparents but I'm sure I'm jaded a bit by my Mom's view on all of this because she was more of a mother to her sisters at a young age and took care of them and was there to comfort them after being abused than their actual Mother was. I'm an only child as my Mother had already raised a family.
With it being a farm family, most of the wealth is tied up in the farmhouse, land, cattle and machinery. Cattle and machinery can be sold easily. The problem is going to be the land. Lots of farming families want to keep the land in the family. The boys feel like it should stay in the family since they have worked it all their lives, so they should just get it. They forget that the girls were out working the land as well, then had to come, prepare the food, clean up, and then go back out to the fields as well. Take the land away from the estate, there isn't going to be much left over for the girls if it's divided that way. If it's forced to sale to make it a fair split, the boys are going to be pissed because that was the family land. It's a standoff. There is no way for the estate to be split without half the family being pissed off. Nobody knows for sure what the will says. There are rumors that Grandma said, "It's not what people are expecting." Well, the boys are expecting all the land. Some of the boys may even be expecting more than just an even split of the land for themselves. And the girls are expecting things to be even. And nobody knows what will happen with the share of the one brother that already passed. Nobody even knows for sure who the executor(s) are.
I'm betting the land is going to the boys. They've been favored this long, why not keep the abuse up even after death? My Grandfather was a cheapskate, too miserly to be called Mustachian. A couple years before he died, he bought his first brand-new anything, a John Deere tractor. Despite having plenty of shed space a their place, he decided to store it at two of the boys' houses (one lives across the fence line, 1/4 mile drive out and around, and the other 1/4 mile down the road). A couple of my Great Aunts died recently and between initial inventory and the dividing of things out, valuable items (jewelry, gold and silver coins) went missing after some of the boys showed up. They've been favored for too long for my Grandmother to see anything else. Time will tell. My Grandmother is getting more frail and really shouldn't be living by herself in that farm house any more, so it could be sooner rather than later.
The sad part of this is the family part. One Thanksgiving get together my Grandmother was pissed because so many were going to their in-laws that she said, "If only 75 people are going to be here, why even have it!" It's a huge family and it's fun to go back a couple times a year as there is perpetually a baby, toddlers and kids of every age as there are so many different stages of life in the family, somebody is constantly having a baby. It's going to be torn to shreds once my Grandmother is gone and the money fight commences.
Wow! That's a hard story to read and comprehend. Sorry your Mom lives it.
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Not a story but a question that might help prevent a story in the future. My FIL and MIL own a business worth quite a bit. It is expected that the business will be passed down to the eldest son because he is the only one in the family to work there and runs it now. No drama on that, totally expected by all the children. The issue I forsee is that they also have a cottage near the shore that is in a very valuable location. FIL and MIL have just finished major renovations to it so that "no money needs to be spent on it for quite a while". All the children use this cottage in the summer for the respective family vacations. No one knows where this cottage goes for inheritance. Based on location, property taxes, utilities and upkeep are probably pretty expensive. Can a will give the cottage to the other sibling while requiring the eldest (who controls the significant income from the business) to be responsible for costs associated with it?
Just trying to think of ideas to head off drama. DW family has had lots of dram in the past and no one there likes to talk about money at all.
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My Mom's family is going to be a 'best of' the worst parts of this thread when my Grandmother finally passes. My Mom is the oldest girl (third kid) out of 13 kids. 8 girls, 5 boys. One of the boys died of cancer in the 90s. My Grandparents are/were terrible people. Beat their kids with leather belts to the point where it's not, 'back in my day you spanked your kids' but actual, full-on abuse. Girls are/were worthless. At least the youngest 4 girls were sexually molested by family. It's still pretty hush-hush so I'm not sure if it was an older brother or uncle or cousin or even a bit of all three. I think my Mom escaped as she was either too old or too big as she is a big-boned, muscular, German Woman. Grandma wouldn't do anything about it because she didn't want to cause a scene in a small town and girls weren't valuable enough to get into that. At Christmas I go back and ask my Grandma how she is doing, "I'm doing good. I have THREE BOYS WHO TAKE GOOD CARE OF ME." Raising her voice so everybody around her can hear. Never mind that my Aunt took 2 weeks off work to stay with her while she was sick and has driven her to all her doctors appointments for years or that other Aunts come and bring her food or clean her house for her. It's a farm family so the boys take care of the cows and that is what matters most. The only good thing I can say about my Grandma is that she would run interference for my Mom and Aunts and let them know when my Grandpa was coming in the house because if he caught any of the girls reading a book or studying for school, he would beat them with the leather belt. Not only were the boys greatly favored over the girls, the 4 blonde haired boys were preferred over the one dark haired boy, who was still way better than any of the girls. Not a big fan of my Grandparents but I'm sure I'm jaded a bit by my Mom's view on all of this because she was more of a mother to her sisters at a young age and took care of them and was there to comfort them after being abused than their actual Mother was. I'm an only child as my Mother had already raised a family.
With it being a farm family, most of the wealth is tied up in the farmhouse, land, cattle and machinery. Cattle and machinery can be sold easily. The problem is going to be the land. Lots of farming families want to keep the land in the family. The boys feel like it should stay in the family since they have worked it all their lives, so they should just get it. They forget that the girls were out working the land as well, then had to come, prepare the food, clean up, and then go back out to the fields as well. Take the land away from the estate, there isn't going to be much left over for the girls if it's divided that way. If it's forced to sale to make it a fair split, the boys are going to be pissed because that was the family land. It's a standoff. There is no way for the estate to be split without half the family being pissed off. Nobody knows for sure what the will says. There are rumors that Grandma said, "It's not what people are expecting." Well, the boys are expecting all the land. Some of the boys may even be expecting more than just an even split of the land for themselves. And the girls are expecting things to be even. And nobody knows what will happen with the share of the one brother that already passed. Nobody even knows for sure who the executor(s) are.
I'm betting the land is going to the boys. They've been favored this long, why not keep the abuse up even after death? My Grandfather was a cheapskate, too miserly to be called Mustachian. A couple years before he died, he bought his first brand-new anything, a John Deere tractor. Despite having plenty of shed space a their place, he decided to store it at two of the boys' houses (one lives across the fence line, 1/4 mile drive out and around, and the other 1/4 mile down the road). A couple of my Great Aunts died recently and between initial inventory and the dividing of things out, valuable items (jewelry, gold and silver coins) went missing after some of the boys showed up. They've been favored for too long for my Grandmother to see anything else. Time will tell. My Grandmother is getting more frail and really shouldn't be living by herself in that farm house any more, so it could be sooner rather than later.
The sad part of this is the family part. One Thanksgiving get together my Grandmother was pissed because so many were going to their in-laws that she said, "If only 75 people are going to be here, why even have it!" It's a huge family and it's fun to go back a couple times a year as there is perpetually a baby, toddlers and kids of every age as there are so many different stages of life in the family, somebody is constantly having a baby. It's going to be torn to shreds once my Grandmother is gone and the money fight commences.
Curious, as we farm as well, where are you located?
There is a good reason that people don't like to sell land, at least in our area, and that's because a piece of land only comes for sale once in most people lifetimes. If you sell it, you'll never get it back. You'll lose yearly income off of it, whether that's if the family farms it, or you rent it to another farmer. Given, I know land prices were high, they aren't as high anymore, and I know that changes between areas.
Right now, rent on land goes from $225-$350 an acre in my location (Iowa), depending on the farmer and how aggressive they are. So, let's say you inherit a quarter section of ground (160 acres), and you rent it to the biggest farmer in the area at $350 an acre. That gives you $56,000 a year in land rental income. Now, you could sell that piece of ground for $7,000-$9,000 an acre, or 1.12m - 1.44m (again, in our area....land of dark, rich soil). Personally, we'd farm it ourselves, but if we were to get out of farming, we'd rent it, and in no way shape or form, would it be sold, unless we had to in order to avoid bankruptcy.
Farming is a totally different life style than 99% of this board knows about!
***If all goes well on my end, I'll be helping farm 2k acres, and have a share in 450 acres, that would be paid off already. That is a lot of potential profit from farming it ourselves, without any land payments to be made.
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Not a story but a question that might help prevent a story in the future. My FIL and MIL own a business worth quite a bit. It is expected that the business will be passed down to the eldest son because he is the only one in the family to work there and runs it now. No drama on that, totally expected by all the children. The issue I forsee is that they also have a cottage near the shore that is in a very valuable location. FIL and MIL have just finished major renovations to it so that "no money needs to be spent on it for quite a while". All the children use this cottage in the summer for the respective family vacations. No one knows where this cottage goes for inheritance. Based on location, property taxes, utilities and upkeep are probably pretty expensive. Can a will give the cottage to the other sibling while requiring the eldest (who controls the significant income from the business) to be responsible for costs associated with it?
Just trying to think of ideas to head off drama. DW family has had lots of dram in the past and no one there likes to talk about money at all.
The cottage along with an amount of money for upkeep can be put into a trust with all children as beneficiaries. I don't think you could enforce a provision requiring Child A to pay for the upkeep if it's owned jointly by all children.
Or, the trust could be the cottage plus a share of the business, so a small amount of the business earnings pay for the upkeep.
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You can force one to pay while the others use it. You put a life interest on the property naming all or only some, but make one child the remainder man.
The remainder man inherits the capital once everyone else is dead. Along the way they are the main ones on the hook for maintenance and repair to keep it valuable. The occupants can be made to pay for utilities over a minimum, and anything the other chooses not to, but you could end up with a destroyed cottage in 35+ years.
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Sure, you can do that, but it's a fairly sure way to ensure drama. The people who are enjoying it now don't have to worry about upkeep or even treating it well, because it's never going to be theirs. The person paying for all of it doesn't get to enjoy it until someone else dies and they get what's left over at the end.
Remaindering was traditionally a good way for a man to pass property down to sons if his wife survived him; she would have a 'life estate' or a right to live on the property until she died, and it would automatically go to the sons after that without any danger that it would go to a new family if she re-married.
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Not a story but a question that might help prevent a story in the future. My FIL and MIL own a business worth quite a bit. It is expected that the business will be passed down to the eldest son because he is the only one in the family to work there and runs it now. No drama on that, totally expected by all the children. The issue I forsee is that they also have a cottage near the shore that is in a very valuable location. FIL and MIL have just finished major renovations to it so that "no money needs to be spent on it for quite a while". All the children use this cottage in the summer for the respective family vacations. No one knows where this cottage goes for inheritance. Based on location, property taxes, utilities and upkeep are probably pretty expensive. Can a will give the cottage to the other sibling while requiring the eldest (who controls the significant income from the business) to be responsible for costs associated with it?
Just trying to think of ideas to head off drama. DW family has had lots of dram in the past and no one there likes to talk about money at all.
The cottage along with an amount of money for upkeep can be put into a trust with all children as beneficiaries. I don't think you could enforce a provision requiring Child A to pay for the upkeep if it's owned jointly by all children.
Or, the trust could be the cottage plus a share of the business, so a small amount of the business earnings pay for the upkeep.
The house I live in was shared by 3 siblings as a holiday home for 20 years (their mother died, father remarried, new wife wanted to live elsewhere). It meant that the house was neglected for 20 years, because the siblings either couldn't agree on what money to spend or didn't have the time to do or organise anything (they all lived at least 200 miles away). There was also a rift between the siblings when eventually one forced its sale through against the wishes of the others. So I would strongly argue against any sort of shared inheritance. On the other hand, giving it to one person will create ill feeling, and making one person responsible for maintenance while others have the use of it will create even more.
I'd strongly suggest that the holiday cottage should go on the market, and if any of the siblings can afford to buy it, they can do so. I doubt FIL and MIL will be persuaded of this view, though.
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Inheritances tend to bring out the absolute worst in people.
When my grandmother was diagnosed with a terminal illness years ago, one of my aunts (Bertha) decided that, as the eldest daughter, she was entitled to everything. Jewellery, photographs, china and other items would go missing from the house and turn up at Bertha's place. 'Oh this was mine, I thought I would get it back now' or 'Mum wanted me to have it'.
Bertha 'borrowed' my grandparents' car to take grandmother to medical appointments but even after grandma was in hospice care full time she kept it, leaving my grandfather without a vehicle. He had to get other people to take him to visit his wife, because Bertha was usually too busy to drive all that distance to take him. Then grandma died bequeathing most of her personal items to the youngest daughter (Judith). When Judith went to collect it, almost everything was already gone.
My grandfather died later and left the house to Judith, because he was worried she wouldn't be able to support herself (she had never been able to hold down a steady job and had never married). Well Bertha thought that this was the biggest injustice ever and started harassing Judith to give the house to her. The harassment intensified when Judith's boyfriend died and she inherited from him as well, because it was obviously unfair for Judith to inherit from two people while poor Bertha got 'nothing'.
The last I heard is that Judith and Bertha are not talking. Bertha has also barely spoken to my dad since before my grandmother's death. I sometimes wonder if the jewellery she stole from a dying woman was worth alienating all of her siblings.
I'm afraid that when my parents die there's going to be a lot of unpleasantness because one of my brothers is quite avaricious. He brought an engraver to my parents' place and engraved his name on many of my dad's wood and metal working tools. He also married a woman who spends money like water, so I think she will put a lot of pressure on him to get as much as he can. I'm encouraging my parents to sell their farm and spend their remaining years having fun so that hopefully there's nothing left by the time they go. So far I haven't convinced them.
My husband is also dealing with an inheritance at the moment. One of his childless relatives died and left her admittedly nice but probably not so valuable possessions to be divided between about half a dozen heirs. It hasn't gotten nasty yet but they can't come to an agreement on how to split everything. So her silver, paintings and furniture are gathering dust while ever longer and more complicated proposals are being argued back and forth and we get late night updates on the situation from my stressed out brother in law.
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Ah, family vacation homes. Apparently the cause of lots of inheritance drama. No inheritance drama of any kind in my family, but my BIL had a doosey.
There were 3 siblings: older sister, middle brother and younger brother (my BIL). When father died he left significant assets most of which were easily divisible. But there was a vacation cabin that older sister and younger brother both wanted. Sister thought she have first dibs bc she was oldest. She also though she should pay an apparently random figure that she thought it was worth. Younger brother guessed that it was worth 1/3 more and wasn't willing to let her have it just bc she was older.
There was briefly a proposal by older sister for all 3 to jointly own the cabin. That was a no-go. Younger brother had done all the work opening and closing the cabin for years (father died in his 90s) and wasn't willing do that for the rest of his life while sister got a free ride. He also knew that owning anything together would be a constant fight over everything.
Sister tried to drag the whole thing out with multiple calls to the attorney costing the estate money figuring eventually they would give in. Younger brother wouldn't give in. He had two proposals: both submit sealed bids on the property and highest bid gets it or get an appraisal to set value and then flip a coin. Eventually all three agreed agreed to flipping a coin. (Remember there is a middle brother who wasn't interested in owing the property.) Professional appraisal come in around where younger brother guessed and significantly more than older sister wanted to pay. When she lost the coin toss the real drama started! She cried to every one about losing the cabin. Her daughters called their cousins (younger brothers daughters) bc he was being mean to his sister. Older sister's daughters said they had fond memories of summers at the cabin (as if their younger cousins didn't!). Lots more pressure and drama that I don't recall the details of. But younger brother held fast...until middle brother retroactively decided that a coin toss wasn't the way to go. Sister had worked her magic on him and he was always the people pleaser.
At the point younger brother gave in and gave up the cabin. At least the estate got full value (it was actually in a trust). Younger brother bought another vacation cabin in a different area. I think everyone is speaking again but it was a tough couple of years.
These were grown ass people. Sister was probably 70 at the time and brothers in their 60s.
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Ah, family vacation homes. Apparently the cause of lots of inheritance drama. No inheritance drama of any kind in my family, but my BIL had a doosey.
There were 3 siblings: older sister, middle brother and younger brother (my BIL). When father died he left significant assets most of which were easily divisible. But there was a vacation cabin that older sister and younger brother both wanted. Sister thought she have first dibs bc she was oldest. She also though she should pay an apparently random figure that she thought it was worth. Younger brother guessed that it was worth 1/3 more and wasn't willing to let her have it just bc she was older.
There was briefly a proposal by older sister for all 3 to jointly own the cabin. That was a no-go. Younger brother had done all the work opening and closing the cabin for years (father died in his 90s) and wasn't willing do that for the rest of his life while sister got a free ride. He also knew that owning anything together would be a constant fight over everything.
Sister tried to drag the whole thing out with multiple calls to the attorney costing the estate money figuring eventually they would give in. Younger brother wouldn't give in. He had two proposals: both submit sealed bids on the property and highest bid gets it or get an appraisal to set value and then flip a coin. Eventually all three agreed agreed to flipping a coin. (Remember there is a middle brother who wasn't interested in owing the property.) Professional appraisal come in around where younger brother guessed and significantly more than older sister wanted to pay. When she lost the coin toss the real drama started! She cried to every one about losing the cabin. Her daughters called their cousins (younger brothers daughters) bc he was being mean to his sister. Older sister's daughters said they had fond memories of summers at the cabin (as if their younger cousins didn't!). Lots more pressure and drama that I don't recall the details of. But younger brother held fast...until middle brother retroactively decided that a coin toss wasn't the way to go. Sister had worked her magic on him and he was always the people pleaser.
At the point younger brother gave in and gave up the cabin. At least the estate got full value (it was actually in a trust). Younger brother bought another vacation cabin in a different area. I think everyone is speaking again but it was a tough couple of years.
These were grown ass people. Sister was probably 70 at the time and brothers in their 60s.
My grandparents, to the dismay of everyone (kids and grandkids) sold their place 4 and 6 years before they passed away. Second best decision they ever made, as now 2 kids own a place (one next door and one 15 miles up the same road) and a 3rd is trying to buy one 10 houses down--if that falls through, he might try to buy the original place!
Just a whole lot less drama. My in-laws on the other hand... what a cluster that is. Grandpa wants a place in the vacation spot where they've been renting for years, but can't afford it. So all the kids put in $5k each for the downpayment, and grandpa puts down either $5k or $10k. Then they split the housing payments equally, and pay $5 a night per person when they stay there.
Well grandpa dies. Grandma is a bitch, so is one of the aunts who is a teacher and single/no kids--she's up there the entire summer! If you want to go up there during the summer, you have to deal with her. My FIL has 2 kids, is trying to run a business, and his wife (daughter of the grandpa) has MS now (did I mention the house is a split level?). FIL wants to sell because when he can go up, he has to deal with his shitty SIL, and his wife (sister of SIL) can't really even be there due to the stairs. The others don't want to sell--they'll give him his $5,000 back, but he's been making payments for 20 years!
I'll never buy any property that isn't a rental BUSINESS with anyone who isn't my wife.
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My mother has COPD and doesn't have much time left with us. She's accepted the fact. On Sunday, I'm going to my parents' house and sitting with her; she wants me to help her write her will. I'm hoping she'll keep it simple and no twists. Otherwise you'll get an update on inheritance drama.
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Sure, you can do that, but it's a fairly sure way to ensure drama. The people who are enjoying it now don't have to worry about upkeep or even treating it well, because it's never going to be theirs. The person paying for all of it doesn't get to enjoy it until someone else dies and they get what's left over at the end.
Remaindering was traditionally a good way for a man to pass property down to sons if his wife survived him; she would have a 'life estate' or a right to live on the property until she died, and it would automatically go to the sons after that without any danger that it would go to a new family if she re-married.
Yep. I wasn't recommending it..especially for this scenario. deadlymonkey wanted to know if it was possible, and it is.
It is a good plan for a disabled child, too, to have a life interest in living in a home, if a trustee is responsible for maintenance of the property, and then it passes (when the child dies) to the designated recipient.
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Seriously - the lowest drama method is to give it away before you die. Want a family heirloom to go to someone special? Hand it to them while you can still remember who they are.
IAALBINYL (I am a lawyer but I'm not YOUR lawyer): another popular option in Australia and similar systems is joint tenancy - two people own the real estate as joint tenants, meaning that when one of them dies the other automatically becomes full owner. No wills, no way to contest anything.
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My mother has COPD and doesn't have much time left with us. She's accepted the fact. On Sunday, I'm going to my parents' house and sitting with her; she wants me to help her write her will. I'm hoping she'll keep it simple and no twists. Otherwise you'll get an update on inheritance drama.
Have seen lots of patients including my grandad with end stage copd survive many years.
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Seriously - the lowest drama method is to give it away before you die. Want a family heirloom to go to someone special? Hand it to them while you can still remember who they are.
I can see myself someday -- as I approach my personal expiration date -- gifting cash/stocks to my heirs which won't exceed the maximum exclusion amount ($14,000 in 2015). Even prior to that date -- for my nieces and nephews -- I'm considering offering them an IRA match to encourage them to save.
We're fortunate in that we have had no drama in my immediate family. My brother and I will be our parents' executors and the other siblings are fine with that. I even tried to get my father to exclude me from the inheritance (since I don't need the money), but he refused, thinking it would be unseemly.
I suppose being financially independent helps to insulate you from the inheritance drama. After lurking on this thread for the past few months, I realize how blessed our family has been to avoid the bad karma of fighting over an inheritance.
Does anyone have stories of pleasant "non-dramatic" inheritance situations? Stories where the family members went out of their way to be kind and generous to everyone?
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Seriously - the lowest drama method is to give it away before you die. Want a family heirloom to go to someone special? Hand it to them while you can still remember who they are.
I can see myself someday -- as I approach my personal expiration date -- gifting cash/stocks to my heirs which won't exceed the maximum exclusion amount ($14,000 in 2015). Even prior to that date -- for my nieces and nephews -- I'm considering offering them an IRA match to encourage them to save.
We're fortunate in that we have had no drama in my immediate family. My brother and I will be our parents' executors and the other siblings are fine with that. I even tried to get my father to exclude me from the inheritance (since I don't need the money), but he refused, thinking it would be unseemly.
I suppose being financially independent helps to insulate you from the inheritance drama. After lurking on this thread for the past few months, I realize how blessed our family has been to avoid the bad karma of fighting over an inheritance.
Does anyone have stories of pleasant "non-dramatic" inheritance situations? Stories where the family members went out of their way to be kind and generous to everyone?
My grandparents gifted each grandkid some money for college, etc. I love the idea, because gifts to the kids generally aren't (or shouldn't be) necessary, and the grandkids will have the benefit of compound interest more than the kids.
When my grandmother died, my dad was the executor, and AFAIK, there was zero drama. Of course, my dad was already retired, and the others were very much self-sufficient. I agree that being financially independent, or at least financially responsible, can certainly cut down on the drama. My dad asked all the kids to submit their requests for sentimental items, and each person was expected to pay the estate market value for the object(s) they received.
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Seriously - the lowest drama method is to give it away before you die. Want a family heirloom to go to someone special? Hand it to them while you can still remember who they are.
I can see myself someday -- as I approach my personal expiration date -- gifting cash/stocks to my heirs which won't exceed the maximum exclusion amount ($14,000 in 2015). Even prior to that date -- for my nieces and nephews -- I'm considering offering them an IRA match to encourage them to save.
We're fortunate in that we have had no drama in my immediate family. My brother and I will be our parents' executors and the other siblings are fine with that. I even tried to get my father to exclude me from the inheritance (since I don't need the money), but he refused, thinking it would be unseemly.
I suppose being financially independent helps to insulate you from the inheritance drama. After lurking on this thread for the past few months, I realize how blessed our family has been to avoid the bad karma of fighting over an inheritance.
Does anyone have stories of pleasant "non-dramatic" inheritance situations? Stories where the family members went out of their way to be kind and generous to everyone?
There was minor drama when my grandma died, but it was pretty minor. But there was also a generous gesture. Grandma's health was just starting to decline when Husband and I happened to move to her city. We were engaged, but not yet married. grandma offered me a $400/mo to help her out a bit. At first, this was a fair sum, and it included things like helping with some housework, grocery runs, picking up prescriptions, etc. I lived with DH (then DF) and a roommate, and went to grandmas most days. As she got more and more sick, it became a full time job. I moved in with her because she couldn't be alone over night. It went from grocery shopping to cleaning up after accidents. I was happy to do it, but it truly was full time, to the point that I had to ask a one of her neighbors to sit with her if I had to run to the grocery store or pharmacy, as she really couldn't be alone at all. She was adamant about not wanting to leave her home. Of course this meant there was no way I could look for a job. Husband and I were okay financially, but would have been more okay if I'd been working. It didn't feel right to ask her for more money, so she continued to give me $400 per month. None of there 3 children lived local.
Grandma got pretty unhappy, and the job turned rather unpleasant as she often lashed out, but it meant something to me to be able to help her, even though it was one of the most difficult things I've done.
After she died, her 3 children decided to pay me some additional money from the estate, beyond the $400/mo I'd been getting. I think it was a gesture of appreciation for what I did, since none of them were in a position to do so, and an acknowledgement that it was definitely more than a $400 job.
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Does anyone have stories of pleasant "non-dramatic" inheritance situations? Stories where the family members went out of their way to be kind and generous to everyone?
My husband's grandfather has a very generous pension and lives an extremely frugal life. Since before I met my husband, his grandpa has given all of his kids and grandkids very generous gifts at Christmas (close to $1000 now, and I assume he gives the same amount to each person so that's between 10-20k a year). Plus when he sold his house (probably worth about 100k) and moved into an apartment, he split the profits between all of his kids and grandkids again, giving each person several thousand dollars. I don't think he has any assets left other than the pension, so I doubt there would be any inheritance when he dies. I think he's doing a really cool thing!
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Does anyone have stories of pleasant "non-dramatic" inheritance situations? Stories where the family members went out of their way to be kind and generous to everyone?
Amazingly, I do. My housemate's uncle died childless and he showed me the will. It was the most complicated division I'd ever seen. Non-liquid assets, ten-way split, charities involved, delayed sell-off. My housemate was left a house full of his uncle's collectibles. I was convinced it was all going to go to heck in a handbasket. But it didn't. The family got together, helped him move into the house, peacefully took home some small possessions with sentimental value to each of them, and divided the rest of the assets with minimal drama.
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My FIL died a couple years ago. His two kids each took a couple sentimental items, and the rest was sold and split. We're still waiting on the house sale to finally go through (selling to a cousin), but all repairs, maintenance, and insurance have been evenly split, and so will the proceeds.
Absolutely no drama, unless you count the "oh, you can have (some valuable thing)". "Oh no, I think it means more to you" type of drama.
I hope (and expect) my sisters to behave when our parents are gone as well.
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Does anyone have stories of pleasant "non-dramatic" inheritance situations? Stories where the family members went out of their way to be kind and generous to everyone?
When my Mom died, after things settled down, my sister and I went to our parents house and went through all Mom's things. Our Dad couldn't handle doing that, he wanted us to do it. We sorted everything, decided amiably about what went where (clothes, jewellery, etc.), took donations to the donation place, and left our Dad with a sense of peace. We didn't argue at all. We did the same after Dad died. Both parents had wills (nice clear ones), so this was more the personal stuff.
We had had the advantage of watching grabby relatives take a lot of our Grandmother's stuff, and watched our uncle be mean to Mom at our Grandmother's funeral (no-one told her that Granny didn't want an open casket, her brother was so nasty she never spoke to him again), and we were both determined that we were not going down that path.
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Does anyone have stories of pleasant "non-dramatic" inheritance situations? Stories where the family members went out of their way to be kind and generous to everyone?
Yes. After my grandmother died, she split her money in half between her two kids. Seems fair at face value, but Those of us who saw the years of hard effort and sacrifice that my mom had put in to care for her bedridden mother knew the "even split" was not equitable. My mom never said a bitter word about it.
The kind and generous part of the story is about my mom, who, like thousands of other people, don't talk about the inequity to their children or other family members. The only thing that would come from that would be that now our family would be mad at uncle's family and two sets of cousins would resent one another because of the "unfairness". We know my mom went above and beyond, and we just chalk that up to her being a very special person and we don't equate it to money.
Many of the horror stories above are about an older generation in a family, but somehow, the info is getting to the kids because someone is bitter. I can only advise to let it go, don't share the bitterness with your kids, and then it ends rather than starting a multi-generational war.
Here's to all the moms and dads that took an unfair situation and just let it die without telling their kids how poorly they had been treated. THATS the real gift of a kind and generous spirit!
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Does anyone have stories of pleasant "non-dramatic" inheritance situations? Stories where the family members went out of their way to be kind and generous to everyone?
Here's to all the moms and dads that took an unfair situation and just let it die without telling their kids how poorly they had been treated. THATS the real gift of a kind and generous spirit!
Exactly right!
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In all honesty, you should feel grateful if there is "inheritance drama". Inheritance may as well be strange customs of an alien culture as far as the vast majority of people are concerned. My grandparents just died and they had retired to a trailer in Florida and then moved in with my aunt when they got too old and frail to take care of themselves anymore. No money to dish out. My family has ten children that were raised on one government employee income. I'm going to get jack squat when my father dies. If you have "inheritance drama", you are living the good life. Be thankful for it.
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In all honesty, you should feel grateful if there is "inheritance drama". Inheritance may as well be strange customs of an alien culture as far as the vast majority of people are concerned. My grandparents just died and they had retired to a trailer in Florida and then moved in with my aunt when they got too old and frail to take care of themselves anymore. No money to dish out. My family has ten children that were raised on one government employee income. I'm going to get jack squat when my father dies. If you have "inheritance drama", you are living the good life. Be thankful for it.
While this is entirely 100% true.... the folks creating the drama are likely the ones that absolutely do not understand that. I see it as "Yesterday, this money/stuff wasn't mine. Today, I have a gift I didn't ask for that will remind me of a loved one." Those that are the drama queens are the ones that think their gift "isn't enough."
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My mother has COPD and doesn't have much time left with us. She's accepted the fact. On Sunday, I'm going to my parents' house and sitting with her; she wants me to help her write her will. I'm hoping she'll keep it simple and no twists. Otherwise you'll get an update on inheritance drama.
Have seen lots of patients including my grandad with end stage copd survive many years.
Actually, it's not COPD but Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis. She was initially diagnosed COPD, then further testing revealed IPF. It has aggressively spread in the last year.
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In all honesty, you should feel grateful if there is "inheritance drama". Inheritance may as well be strange customs of an alien culture as far as the vast majority of people are concerned. My grandparents just died and they had retired to a trailer in Florida and then moved in with my aunt when they got too old and frail to take care of themselves anymore. No money to dish out. My family has ten children that were raised on one government employee income. I'm going to get jack squat when my father dies. If you have "inheritance drama", you are living the good life. Be thankful for it.
Yep. Buddy of mine will get the "inheritance" of no longer supporting his father when he goes.
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In all honesty, you should feel grateful if there is "inheritance drama". Inheritance may as well be strange customs of an alien culture as far as the vast majority of people are concerned. My grandparents just died and they had retired to a trailer in Florida and then moved in with my aunt when they got too old and frail to take care of themselves anymore. No money to dish out. My family has ten children that were raised on one government employee income. I'm going to get jack squat when my father dies. If you have "inheritance drama", you are living the good life. Be thankful for it.
Inheritance isn't just about money, often people fight about stuff of no or little value because of sentimental attachment. Other times, the argument is really about something completly different but the death brings it to the surface.
There wasn't really anything of value when my grandmother died. I remember she split her money between the grandkids before she died, and it was just enough for each of us to get a new (relatively cheap) winter coat. But there was an old house. It costs more in upkeep than it is worth, old, bad quality materials, not possible to use in wintertime, but it was a childhood home. Two of the kids agreed to buy the other three out, with agreement that they all could keep using it. But one of the older boys did not agree with the realtor's assessment, he wanted it on the open market. The difference in price would maybe be a thousand dollars, so it clearly wasn't about the cash. The argument that ensued caused a rift that lasted till that uncle died. In it, all the old resentment from the last 50 years came to the surface.
The fun part of that was that his wife thought he was dead wrong, and made sure that she and the kids attended all family gatherings, wrote Christmas cards, etc.
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Luckily, our family now has been, and will be drama free. When my Dad died, Mom sat down and thought about my sister and I, and each grandchild, what they liked, etc., and offered keepsakes based on that. It was so great - no arguing, and each got something special to remember their Grandpa by. When my Mom goes (she's 86), my sister and I joke that the daily thread will be, "You take it. No, you take it." Mom has been very clear about what goes where, and has already given away the very special things to all of us. I wish she would spend her money too, but that's an argument we've given up winning.
But, the reason she's been so organized is that she watched her younger sister pillage their father's and aunt's small estates. She let it go, but never forgot the anger and hurt over such petty behaviour.
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The estates where there's little to fight over seem to have the most vicious fighting in my estimation.
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Does anyone have stories of pleasant "non-dramatic" inheritance situations? Stories where the family members went out of their way to be kind and generous to everyone?
My dad's mom passed about 10 months ago, estate was split about 40/40/20 between 2 brothers and then random gifts to random groups of people (church, grandkids, friends, etc, in the amounts of $10-20k). Basically all cash/cash equivalents, she had sold her house and most property and moved to assisted living. The two brothers get along just find, all is well, except that neither one particularly needs the money (estate was maybe $300-400k and ~80% was already executed?) so neither is any hurry to wrap it all up. Not a big deal, but I would like my small share in my investment account instead of in trust/escrow somewhere....
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In all honesty, you should feel grateful if there is "inheritance drama". Inheritance may as well be strange customs of an alien culture as far as the vast majority of people are concerned. My grandparents just died and they had retired to a trailer in Florida and then moved in with my aunt when they got too old and frail to take care of themselves anymore. No money to dish out. My family has ten children that were raised on one government employee income. I'm going to get jack squat when my father dies. If you have "inheritance drama", you are living the good life. Be thankful for it.
Eh, yes and no, I mean, there are worse problems to have, but if you inherit property jointly with other people, especially maintenance intensive property, you've likely inherited a burden, not a gift.
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Seriously - the lowest drama method is to give it away before you die. Want a family heirloom to go to someone special? Hand it to them while you can still remember who they are.
I can see myself someday -- as I approach my personal expiration date -- gifting cash/stocks to my heirs which won't exceed the maximum exclusion amount ($14,000 in 2015). Even prior to that date -- for my nieces and nephews -- I'm considering offering them an IRA match to encourage them to save.
We're fortunate in that we have had no drama in my immediate family. My brother and I will be our parents' executors and the other siblings are fine with that. I even tried to get my father to exclude me from the inheritance (since I don't need the money), but he refused, thinking it would be unseemly.
I suppose being financially independent helps to insulate you from the inheritance drama. After lurking on this thread for the past few months, I realize how blessed our family has been to avoid the bad karma of fighting over an inheritance.
Does anyone have stories of pleasant "non-dramatic" inheritance situations? Stories where the family members went out of their way to be kind and generous to everyone?
When my dad died, he left everything to the 7 kids. It wasn't much (I got about $10k). His will stated that everything be sold and divided up. But honestly, he didn't have anything worth selling (he gave me his copy of Walden years before, to give you an idea).
After his burial, we went back to the house and drank beer and ate bad food and talked for hours. My sister the executor said: "take whatever you want, the rest is going to a dumpster" (because it wasn't worth much). So, I got the corn dishes. (Ceramic dishes shaped like corn. That my mom made, and left when she divorced him. She always regretted not taking them). We dug through a closet and found his WWII Army uniform, hidden behind a prom dress, in a garment bag. I hope someone kept that.
My big sis the executor handled everything, and the rest of us were happy!
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In the middle of an otherwise drama-filled situation that 5 years later is still going through the court system for elder abuse... my mom was the executor for my grandmother's estate. Most things weren't worth that much (well, new they would have been, and they were in good condition, but no market for them = no value, in practical terms).
My grandmother had specified where the items of value (specific pieces of jewelry, leather furniture, etc) were going. My mom made sure that things went where they were needed ("oh, we have used-but-great-quality towels, single beds, and sheets. Maybe the cousin who is a single mom working minimum wage would appreciate those for her daughters, since apparently they are using sleeping bags" or "X person cooks, so should get the stacks of pie plates", or "person who does woodworking should look through the shop for things they can use") - practical decisions for things that couldn't be sold but could definitely be used and appreciated.
And then she made sure that sentimental items went to the right people - my cousin brought my grandmother roses every week, and she'd always put them in this case she treasured and it made her happy: he got the vase. That kind of thing.
In the middle of a situation filled with abuse, social workers, lawyers, and a dickbag of an uncle, I though that the thoughtfulness of how she split up material belongings showed a lot of grace.
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In the middle of a situation filled with abuse, social workers, lawyers, and a dickbag of an uncle, I though that the thoughtfulness of how she split up material belongings showed a lot of grace.
I find the phrase "dickbag of an uncle" strangely hilarious, but I am sorry you have one...an uncle who is a dickbag, I mean.
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In the middle of a situation filled with abuse, social workers, lawyers, and a dickbag of an uncle, I though that the thoughtfulness of how she split up material belongings showed a lot of grace.
I find the phrase "dickbag of an uncle" strangely hilarious, but I am sorry you have one...an uncle who is a dickbag, I mean.
Sometimes standard insults are just not sufficient. ;)
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Thanks for the info everyone. I don't think the cottage will be an issue for many, many years to come, but would like to be prepared. My parents will likely not leave much if any inheritance. I think I have convinced them to sell their house when they finally retire and do what they always wanted and RV around the country. They already picked out the RV and buying later this year. I don't need or want anything from them, I just don't want my sister to take advantage. I love her but she leeches off them now (small things) like free childcare all the time, Netflix, hbo accounts, cell phone (until recently). Sister received a house for free from her husband's grandmom (inheritance) and I feel like she is eyeing an upgrade to my parent's house.
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The estates where there's little to fight over seem to have the most vicious fighting in my estimation.
Reminds me of a joke I once heard.
Q: Why are academic politics so heated?
A: Because the stakes are so low.
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Sidetrack, but here's another one MgoSam -
Q: Why do grandparents and grandchildren get along so well?
A: They have a common enemy.
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The estates where there's little to fight over seem to have the most vicious fighting in my estimation.
Reminds me of a joke I once heard.
Q: Why are academic politics so heated?
A: Because the stakes are so low.
Gospel truth right there.
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Sidetrack, but here's another one MgoSam -
Q: Why do grandparents and grandchildren get along so well?
A: They have a common enemy.
Fair warning I am stealing this one :)
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In the middle of a situation filled with abuse, social workers, lawyers, and a dickbag of an uncle, I though that the thoughtfulness of how she split up material belongings showed a lot of grace.
I find the phrase "dickbag of an uncle" strangely hilarious, but I am sorry you have one...an uncle who is a dickbag, I mean.
Sometimes standard insults are just not sufficient. ;)
Love this insult! :) I can apply it to two brothers, both who showed their dickbagginess the last few years of our mother's life. Hopefully, this will help others avoid this problem.
My parents had a revocable living trust with a pour over will in place when my dad died. Everything went to my mom. The problem begins when mom shows signs of dementia immediately after my dad's funeral. The short story is the 2 brothers had frequent economic outpatient care from our parents before and after my dad's death. The disturbing part was when the 2 brothers decided they were immediately entitled to the proceeds from selling the farm because they had a penis. They were unable to have the proceeds titled in their name (mom is still alive) but proceeded to trade stocks and mutual funds as if the money was theirs. Brother 1 had also signed a promissory note for $25K to invest in his "business."
The worst part was when Brother 1 takes mom to a new attorney and has the living revocable trust rewritten to exclude me and my sister. All proceeds from the estate would go to the 2 brothers. Brother 1 has the trust rewritten again to exclude Brother 2. All this is happening while mom's dementia is getting worse. She admitted in a lawyer's office she didn't understand what she had signed. Fortunately, about 2 months later, she has a moment of clarity and demands that the original trust be reinstated. She paid for all 3 revisions of the trust and Brother 1 continues to get money from her (she can't say no).
The only consolation for my sister and I is that mom kept records of some of the amounts she gave to Brother 1. We had the $25,000 promissory note, which he repaid $0 and copies of checks and wire transfers that were sent to him. A clause in the trust allowed my sister and I as co-trustees, to deduct the gifts and amount borrowed from his inheritance. Brother 2 had his economic outpatient care in the form of cash, because he lived close, so we could not document any amount for equalization.
I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice and don't know if this will work in every state. Here's the clause in her trust
Grantor wishes to make certain monetary gifts during Grantor's lifetime to one or more of Grantor's children. Records of said gifts will be located within Grantor's personal papers. In the event that Grantor has made such gifts, upon final distribution, Grantor directs that a like sum, equal to the amount of the gifts, be distributed to each of Grantor's other children listed in paragraph (c) below. The intent of this paragraph is to equalize the distributions among Grantor's children and this paragraph should be construed to effect this equalizing distribution. Grantor trusts the Trustees in setting the amounts for distribution under this paragraph and no person shall challenge the exercise of this discretion by the Trustees.
This clause will be included in my trust on it's next revision. I don't anticipate any problems with my heirs but better safe than sorry. Sharing a copy of the trust and net worth statement with my children every 2-3 years is also part of my plan. There are no secrets.
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Oh! I have one on either side of the family. My mom's brothers held a strong belief that nothing should ever go to their sisters and the belief was strongly ingrained in their DWs as well. I have no clue what eventually happened but I doubt there was any equitable division when both my grand dad and grandmom passed away. It got really bad around my marriage since i was getting married before one of my elder cousins. For some reason it was very important that your sisters are not treated like they are part of your family for inheritance but for all other matters they have to follow the family hierarchy of getting married.
On my dad's side it was a big mess. My dad kept on telling his father to just hand it over to one person (7 children) and be done with it instead of assuming people will distribute it later and leaving equal shares. He did not and one of the uncles still lives in the huge house my granddad had. It can't be sold and he actually stopped talking to everyone else for sometime since everyone wanted to settle the issue. There is another property that no body uses which can't be sold either because it requires all the siblings to sign off. No clue how it is going to end.
I am happy I don't want anything from my parents and it can be divided howsoever they want and same for DH's parents. They helped us out when we had locked up money and had to close our house. For some reason they refuse to take the money back and I believe that combined with whatever they spent on our marriage is enough for my inheritance.
It sure feels good when you know you will not need the outpatient care.
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This is pretty tame, but I'll share.
My great-uncle passed away recently. No word on any inheritance drama and I don't really anticipate any given the circumstances, but there is most certainly drama on the memorial. Due to family location, etc, it's been decided that a memorial will be held this coming winter sometime. No word on the date yet.
Location is the fun part. They had a number of children, all of whom now live somewhere in the south. Florida, Texas, etc. There is apparently one person who wants the memorial to be held in Michigan, where everyone grew up. They're making a fuss about this. They've been emailing, sending FB or linked in messages, etc to everyone remotely related to ask us to support them.
I would also love it if the memorial was in Michigan, it would be LOT easier for me to attend. Not sure I can otherwise. But the ONLY thing I'm going to say to my great aunt is that I love her. I don't even have a phone number! Dear lord, I hope this one wacko person is kept far away from the estate. They're even more remote than I am, so I think there's a pretty good chance.
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This thread is amazing and I luckily have nothing to add to it except for the good parts.
{Nice inheritance story removed at the request of other family members also on this board}
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Another positive story:
DH's grandmother passed away. She left written instructions her jewelry should be divided by her children picking in turns by age. MIL and her SIL went and got the jewelry appraised. Nothing of real value but a diamond ring (maybe 1-3k, not her wedding ring). Some costume jewelry as well.
MIL is the oldest sibling, so she's to pick first and could take the ring if she wanted to do so. She tried to get her siblings instead to agree to sell it and divvy up the pot, but that apparently didn't fly. Instead they agreed to draw names out of a hat for it. MIL won the draw, so twice over now the ring is hers (and the siblings still insisted she pick first).
Siblings all picked out the jewelry by turn quite happily. (MIL tried to get me or her other DIL to make picks on her turns, but we declined - thought she should.) They also set out the costume jewelry for any of the 30+ grandkids/spouses to just grab what they wanted. Everyone who wanted got at least one if not several items, and no fuss/fights or problems. (This is a positive turn from when DH's grandfather passed away and MIL was out of the country. A sibling got rid of much of his stuff before she had a chance to object.)
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Ah well, the grandpa's estate closure is going along on the death of his 2nd wife.
My two shitty uncles continued their shitty trend of calling (someone) and wanting to know "when do I get my money??" (I'm guessing the boys' trust was quite large, over half a million). These guys are in their 70s, WTF?
My sister has not figured out what happened to $60k of the missing trust for the girls. She suspects the boys raided it.
Based on a letter she sent to the trust people, they amended their letter and the amounts that each beneficiary gets - and it's now correct. So, I told my sister she should get a cut of it since she did their job for them! Sheesh.
In any event, I was visiting and she is so frustrated with how horrible our uncles are, how there is money missing, and how upset my mother would be if she were alive. I told her to let it go. We aren't talking a lot of money here. Mom is dead, so she doesn't