Author Topic: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???  (Read 15985 times)

ChpBstrd

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WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« on: February 15, 2017, 02:39:06 PM »
Welcome to 2017. We all have huge comfortable homes that we mostly heat and cool all day. In this home, most of us have a desk or table, a chair, and an unimaginably fast computer, hooked wirelessly to the internet at unimaginably fast speeds. We also have cell phones with the same amazing properties. All this costs us many thousands of dollars a year. This cost is paid from our salary.

We also spend several thousand dollars a year (and risk our lives, and lose hundreds of hours) commuting to an office. The financial costs are paid from our salary.

The office is a building owned or leased by our employer at a cost of millions of dollars/yr. It has all the same expensive amenities of home: space, heat, AC, lighting, wifi, a bathroom (except with janitors paid to clean it), water, furnishings, trash service, insurance etc. The purpose is to provide a place where employees can hold meetings and push buttons. This cost directly reduces company profits and indirectly reduces our salaries because providing an office is part of the cost of having employees.

Question:
Which items are duplicative / wasteful?

Answers:
1)The office is a wasteful expense because all the same requirements are met by the employees' homes.
2) The commute is a wasteful expense because working from an office is not necessary.

Next question:
Why do employers insist upon employees' physical presence in office buildings, instead of insisting that they work from home and use web-based software for meetings, file sharing, communication, collaboration, projects, workflows, etc?

Possible answers:
1) The need for high-bandwidth communication in meetings, which is not currently supplied by our current blurry video conferencing and scratchy-ass conference phones.
2) Difficulty monitoring productivity of remote employees, due to a lack of remote reporting/monitoring systems.
3) Fear of software outages stopping people from working remotely, due to low-reliability of existing systems.
4) Higher costs of providing support services such as HR and IT remotely.
5) {is that it?}

Maybe you all can identify additional reasons. My point is, this list of reasons could become software requirements documentation for an integrated communication / collaboration toolset that could replace offices and end commuting for most office workers. If developers could solve the issues described above, they could sell companies the software they need to have an entirely work-from-home (WFH) workforce, and get rid of those costly office buildings. Employees would want to work at such companies, because it would save them thousands of dollars, save commute time, and eliminate the need to live in high-COL areas. Eventually, companies that stuck with old-school offices could not compete.

I don't see any technical barriers to producing a software system that would knock 20% of the cars off the road at rush hour. Do any of you?

The cultural change might take a generation, though.

Thinking about the latest MMM post about car-centric cities, this seems like the low-hanging fruit, and maybe a necessity. The reason for many of those cars is an outdated management model, based on assumptions of a slow, text-based internet. Those assumptions are already irrelevant, and yet people still drive to an office to write software. WTF?

Even if our cities and towns were denser, people would still be forced to commute back and forth to a usually-distant office. So we have to fix the management model to fix the commute and to fix the city.

I would hope Google, Apple, or Microsoft are working toward this solution while they're not developing self-driving commuter cars which don't solve the underlying problem, but maybe they're not.

What can we do to make WFH a reality for more office workers? Is there some barrier to adoption that I cannot identify? WHY DON'T WE ALREADY HAVE THIS?

Schaefer Light

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2017, 02:45:14 PM »
I think it's mainly because most managers are control freaks and seeing their employees in the office gives them a greater sense of control.

LalsConstant

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2017, 02:51:21 PM »
Honestly, it's a lot of legacy thinking in high positions in most organizations.  At least that is imho.

I believe we will only ever see slow gradual change on this and then we will look back and wonder what we're we thinking.  The culture has to shift.

ChpBstrd

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2017, 02:53:59 PM »
I think it's mainly because most managers are control freaks and seeing their employees in the office gives them a greater sense of control.

It would seem that forcing those managers to adapt to a 21st century paradigm would be relatively easy compared to the other options for achieving competitive advantage. E.g. develop faster microprocessor nanotechnology OR get Skype to work for 20 people at a time at 720p resolution.

Business evolution happens so fast it can't just be inertia.

Chris22

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2017, 02:54:46 PM »
WFH is a fantasy for many introverts, but personally I would DIE doing it every day.  No way, no how, no thanks.  I'm also relatively visual; I solve problems best when I can sit in a room with you or look over your shoulder or something and we can take notes or use a whiteboard or what have you.  Given how every single conference call ever contains tons of "sorry, couldn't dial in" and "whoops, didn't mute and started talking" or "didn't UNmute and started talking" and "sorry, what was that, I was multitasking" and on and on and on and I think it would be a disaster.  Sure, if you do a solitary task and don't collaborate with anyone all day, I get it, but I'd say I'm 60/40 meetings (formal and informal)/solitary work.  And how do you ever learn how to work with groups and manage people and move around an organization if you sit holed up in your home alone all the time? 

JLee

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2017, 03:01:12 PM »
I think it's mainly because most managers are control freaks and seeing their employees in the office gives them a greater sense of control.

Yep.

Honestly, it's a lot of legacy thinking in high positions in most organizations.  At least that is imho.

I believe we will only ever see slow gradual change on this and then we will look back and wonder what we're we thinking.  The culture has to shift.

And yep.

WFH is a fantasy for many introverts, but personally I would DIE doing it every day.  No way, no how, no thanks.  I'm also relatively visual; I solve problems best when I can sit in a room with you or look over your shoulder or something and we can take notes or use a whiteboard or what have you.  Given how every single conference call ever contains tons of "sorry, couldn't dial in" and "whoops, didn't mute and started talking" or "didn't UNmute and started talking" and "sorry, what was that, I was multitasking" and on and on and on and I think it would be a disaster.  Sure, if you do a solitary task and don't collaborate with anyone all day, I get it, but I'd say I'm 60/40 meetings (formal and informal)/solitary work.  And how do you ever learn how to work with groups and manage people and move around an organization if you sit holed up in your home alone all the time?

It's a lot better than listening to an office full of people eating popcorn and clipping fingernails at their desks all day and having impromptu hallway meetings 3 feet from where I'm trying to think.

Uturn

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2017, 03:05:12 PM »
A lot of this has to due with age.  Two years ago, I was on a project to replace our corporate phone system, so I sent out a survey asking the users what they wanted.  The over 50 crowd wanted a desk phone, the 30-50 crowd didn't care if they had a desk phone or soft phone on the PC, the under 30 crowd said that they had a phone in their pocket.  I bet if you send a telecommute survey, the results would be very much the same.

There is also the issue of perception.  At my last job, I negotiated (during salary talks) that I work from home on Fridays.  Although I actually got more done on Fridays than I did the rest of the week, perception was that I fucked off one day a week.  My manager the rest of the team knew the truth, but you have to work with more than just your team. 

We also tried sending the call center people home.  Who needs a big ass room full of people logged into a cloud based app and using VoIP?  It was a colossal failure.  A few people's production went up, but as a whole, production went down. 

I do think it is changing, but it will be a slow process, especially at larger organizations. 

MilesTeg

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2017, 03:10:06 PM »
I have worked in and managed both 100% "on site" and 90% "distributed" teams. In particular in the software development industry.

On site teams, even for programmers that like to hide in their cubes most of the day, are always, always more productive. The most important quality of any work environment is communication, and while it's not impossible to have good communication with phone calls, IM, etc., it is far less likely.

neo von retorch

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2017, 03:11:53 PM »
First, I'd give managers the benefit of the doubt. While management by insecurity is one possibility, there are a variety of other considerations.

  • Personality Type: As mentioned by Chris22, some people really do work better in a social, interactive (physical) environment.
  • Task Type: Again - some tasks will just work better in person. But clearly others can be done without picking up your flesh bag and plopping it down in a different location.
  • Human Element: Beyond just "personality", while some people will absolutely perform as well or better remotely, not everyone will. Depending on how replaceable such people are, maybe this wouldn't be a problem (for a company) if they can just find good reliable remote workers.
  • Inertia: This is the big, obvious gorilla in the room. Beyond being "how we do things", a great deal of education does have to happen in management to improve how to measure productivity. The current standard of "time spent in office" is obviously a terrible metric, and this is something that needs fixed whether or not a workflow goes remote.

Personally, I'm torn - I hate the inefficiency of commutes. 50 minutes and ~24 miles daily that just does not need to happen. And my energy cycle is an hour or two behind normal office hours. I usually skate in the door a few seconds before 9AM to make it to our (maybe useless?) stand-up meeting (which could be done as well with Slack, or, you know, email - like we do on Friday anyway since some of the office works remotely on Friday!) But I am often a zombie in the morning, and sometimes the afternoon. Once, I worked at a small company where I commanded out-sized influence over the operations, and had no official start time. I did not set my alarm (and I was single at the time) so I woke up when my body was ready. I was very productive every day at that job. I excelled at my duties, completed them, and had ample time to do extra strategic thinking for the company, as well as work on personal projects (on company time!)

On the other hand, when I'm at home, I have to choose between putting my dog in a crate for four hours while I sit a few feet away trying to focus on work, or letting her out and taking frequent breaks from work to let her out and give her some more playtime/exercise so she can relax by my feet. Not unlike my time at work, I'm up every hour to forage for food (which I keep within arm's reach at work.) And meanwhile, all around me are reminders of "other things I can do", not the least of which are personal software projects I often write from the very same computer.

There's also the way that we communicate with co-workers - especially the balancing act between senior / master and junior / apprentice employees. At my current job, I'm essentially junior, and I very much lean on a next-cubicle-over senior for domain knowledge (and sometimes technical know-how) on a very regular basis. Great for multiplying my own productivity by 2-5x, but certainly slowing down his own productivity. (In theory, a similar exchange could happen over chat/slack/phone/video, although I'm not yet convinced that the bandwidth or human ability to focus on digital communication is high enough. For example, sometimes I think email is a good idea, but I think my colleagues reply to only about 40% of my emails, and typically about 24-72 hours after I need the information.)

All this being said, I believe if my company would switch to "mostly remote," I would make it work. I'd probably (re-)adjust my home situation to (re-)isolate my computing environment specific to work. (Maybe keep my personal computer in our main living space, but set up a new one in isolation.) We'd work out the scheduling with the dog in a way that worked. (Most likely, I'd get a free day on Monday when my wife doesn't work, and I'd take on all duties the rest of the week, but...) The company would have to adjust to the change with more transparent productivity assessment. (Right now, we have estimates we ignore because... we didn't make them and they are horrible guesses.) And given that, I'd hopefully be able to know how long I'd have to work in a given day, including interruptions, to hit my performance targets.

MilesTeg

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2017, 03:13:57 PM »
WFH is a fantasy for many introverts, but personally I would DIE doing it every day.  No way, no how, no thanks.  I'm also relatively visual; I solve problems best when I can sit in a room with you or look over your shoulder or something and we can take notes or use a whiteboard or what have you.  Given how every single conference call ever contains tons of "sorry, couldn't dial in" and "whoops, didn't mute and started talking" or "didn't UNmute and started talking" and "sorry, what was that, I was multitasking" and on and on and on and I think it would be a disaster.  Sure, if you do a solitary task and don't collaborate with anyone all day, I get it, but I'd say I'm 60/40 meetings (formal and informal)/solitary work.  And how do you ever learn how to work with groups and manage people and move around an organization if you sit holed up in your home alone all the time?

Don't forget the frequent "oh, I got the time wrong to that really important meeting". 50% of the time it's the truth, 50% of the time (roughly, heh) it's because someone was 'working' from home.

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2017, 03:17:00 PM »
Ha.  I started a business so I could do this from home.  And so I could live in a smaller town area and not the big city.  And the crazy side benefit is its actually a competitive advantage, as my employees all see value in them all working from home (mostly moms whose kids come home from school and they are there) so they are very loyal, and I'm not having to pay on some $600k mortgage for an average home like I had to in the big city suburbs..

Chris22

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2017, 03:22:39 PM »
Selfishly, I consider my ability to network and form relationships and be polished in front of senior leadership and take charge in large groups as a significant reason why I'm at the level where I am today, and why I expect my career will continue to accelerate.  If I was forced to WFH, I'm not confident I could continue to advance if all I can do is interact electronically. 

I'm sure for others, it is 180* in the other direction; you feel if your work speaks for itself you will advance faster, but you aren't good at playing the network/politics/etc game.  No wrong answers, but one reason why I'd continue to fight to work in person.

ptobest

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2017, 03:24:23 PM »
I am one of the lucky ones that works from home - I work as a developer and the rest of my team works remote as well (though I regularly get together with my team's lead). Used to work in the office until moving, and have become more productive since switching to working from home. I don't know who decided that open floor plans were a good idea for any company that employs programmers, but it's nice to be be able to work in a quiet, closed room where I control the temperature, rather than in a giant room filled with other people where I have to drown out the talking with loud music on my headphones in order to get anything done. And I suspect that more and more workers will push for the "work from home" option as open floor plans continue to spread.

However, that's a very specific job role, and I have met people who have an impossible time focusing at home & seem to need the structure of an office to get work done. Some of it is setting up structure, though - I have weekly checkins on my calendar with various people that would likely not need to exist if I worked in an office with them, but it's necessary when I otherwise don't ever see those people.

Large meetings are also difficult, due to aforementioned software connection problems for screen sharing. Though, to be fair, similar connection problems happen in a meeting room in person when you've got the wrong dongle for your laptop, the projector won't turn on, etc.. I think in-person meeting does become a bit more essential when it's a many-to-many conversation, as you lose visual cues and oftentimes the ability to distinguish between talkers when you're not all in a room together.

So maybe not for every industry, but I'd love to see tech-based industries especially use more remote workers, if nothing else than to stop clogging up the Bay Area.

Chris22

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2017, 03:31:11 PM »
Selfishly, I consider my ability to network and form relationships and be polished in front of senior leadership and take charge in large groups as a significant reason why I'm at the level where I am today, and why I expect my career will continue to accelerate.  If I was forced to WFH, I'm not confident I could continue to advance if all I can do is interact electronically. 

I'm sure for others, it is 180* in the other direction; you feel if your work speaks for itself you will advance faster, but you aren't good at playing the network/politics/etc game.  No wrong answers, but one reason why I'd continue to fight to work in person.

My wife and I are both low six figure earners with a clear path that allows us to increase our income by at least ~35% without taking on management or director duties.  I guess we are lucky in some respects and just not that ambitious in other respects.  Therefore, working from home is just fine for us!

I work in a field that is known for quiet introverts (accountants*) and I leveraged my personality of being more outgoing and extroverted into working on higher visibility projects with higher-ups, seeking out higher level people for mentoring and to solve problems in person rather than via email, etc, and I really think that is why I've done better than a lot of my peer group.  But I'm also sure some people look at that and think "I'm smarter/harder-working/whatever and Chris just gets ahead because he schmoozes"; to a point that's true, but that schmoozing is what gets me on bigger projects where I have to perform.  I basically weaseled my way into a major acquisition my last company did by forcing myself onto the team and then working hard when I got there, and when it was wildly successful I shared in some of that success and moved up the chain. 


*how do you know if an accountant is extroverted?  he looks at YOUR shoes when talking to you

cats

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2017, 04:35:37 PM »
WFH is a fantasy for many introverts, but personally I would DIE doing it every day.  No way, no how, no thanks.  I'm also relatively visual; I solve problems best when I can sit in a room with you or look over your shoulder or something and we can take notes or use a whiteboard or what have you.  Given how every single conference call ever contains tons of "sorry, couldn't dial in" and "whoops, didn't mute and started talking" or "didn't UNmute and started talking" and "sorry, what was that, I was multitasking" and on and on and on and I think it would be a disaster.  Sure, if you do a solitary task and don't collaborate with anyone all day, I get it, but I'd say I'm 60/40 meetings (formal and informal)/solitary work.  And how do you ever learn how to work with groups and manage people and move around an organization if you sit holed up in your home alone all the time?

I agree. 

I LOVE to be able to work from home...sometimes.  1-2 days a week is my "ideal" set up, more than that and I start to really notice the issues like crummy conference calls, or my VPN suddenly going nuts right as I need to use it for something critical. I've noticed also that if there is one person calling into a meeting that is otherwise in-person, it's very easy for that person to get shut out or miss parts of the conversation (e.g., you can't see everyone in the room nodding agreement, you have a poor connection and get sick of asking for everything to be repeated, etc). 

I have found that some parts of my work go better at home (anything where I need to sit down and focus for an extended period), while others go better in the office (anything that involves talking to co-workers). 

I guess overall while there are aspects of office work I hate (commuting, being tied to your desk in a way that you aren't when working remotely), I do recognize that it can have its benefits (at least for the employer).  And my co-workers are mostly decent people so I don't mind seeing them sometimes :)

OP, if commuting/office work is such a drain on you, have you raised the possibility of WFH or partial WFH with your boss/employer?  I did this last year and while I wasn't given the 2 days/week remote that I initially pushed for, I did get 1 day/week, which was a huge improvement over 0 days/week!


cj25

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2017, 04:45:15 PM »
In my office NO one works from home.  It is extremely frowned upon.  I was out sick last week and my boss texted and asked if I would work on some stuff at home since I was just sitting there.  Once I felt up to it, I did and I so prefer doing this stuff at home.  I waste so much time commuting.  And just sitting here.  I could probably finish my job in my commuting time (most of the time anyway).   But our office wants everyone in their seats - to make sure they appear to be working.  Even though most people are on the internet all day.  It's a very old fashioned company. We still aren't allowed to wear jeans EVER! If they even think you're wearing something to jeans people freak out.  We just got a tv in our breakroom and the only thing we can watch is the company promo video.  LOL! 

I think it would make so much more sense to work from home.  At least part of the time.  Or rotate days with people to share desks.  I work faster, waste less time and it's nice to avoid all the drama and bullshit.

Syonyk

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2017, 05:03:29 PM »
Used to work in the office until moving, and have become more productive since switching to working from home. I don't know who decided that open floor plans were a good idea for any company that employs programmers, but it's nice to be be able to work in a quiet, closed room where I control the temperature, rather than in a giant room filled with other people where I have to drown out the talking with loud music on my headphones in order to get anything done. And I suspect that more and more workers will push for the "work from home" option as open floor plans continue to spread.

Ugh.  Same story here.  Open floor plan hell to my own private office where I control the environment?  I'm radically more productive here, and coworkers have commented on it.

Send them a few copies of "Deep Work" to toss around the office.  It talks about distraction and the power of actual concentration in modern work.

But I'm also sure some people look at that and think "I'm smarter/harder-working/whatever and Chris just gets ahead because he schmoozes"; to a point that's true, but that schmoozing is what gets me on bigger projects where I have to perform.  I basically weaseled my way into a major acquisition my last company did by forcing myself onto the team and then working hard when I got there, and when it was wildly successful I shared in some of that success and moved up the chain.

And they may or may not care at all.

I recognize that my remote position severely limits my opportunities for promotion/big projects.  However, I can, very efficiently, do deep technical work that's hard to do in an office environment.  I can listen to music or not, set the temperature where I want it, eliminate distractions, and bore down into 8 hours of deep technical work with no distractions.  That's huge for me.

I'm fine with that arrangement.  People are happy with my work, I get to do interesting technical work, and I get paid quite well (though I took a huge pay cut from my previous job, I'm happier, and I'm only working 32h/wk at this point).

Dave1442397

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2017, 05:55:45 PM »
I work in IT and I love working from home.

I started my current job as a contractor, and had to go to the office every day. It's 30 miles each way, but the traffic is terrible. After the first couple of months, I eased my start time back to 6am, which made for an easy commute to the office. Going home, however, can take anywhere from 40 mins to 2.5 hours, depending on accidents, construction, weather, and idiots who can't drive.

Once I switched to full time, I started working from home on Fridays, then Tuesdays and Fridays, and then got to the point where I only go to the office once a week. Sometimes I skip that day too, depending on weather and what the family schedule is like.

The way our projects are set up, we have a Business Analyst, a Systems Analyst, a Lead Programmer (me), and an offshore programmer. Most of the BAs and SAs are scattered around the country, and even the ones who live locally rarely go to the office.

I find I get more done, save money on gas and tolls ($11.60/day), and I'm not watching traffic on Google maps to see whether I should flee the office before traffic grinds to a halt. As others said, I can also control my environment, and I don't have to listen to the extremely loud people a couple of aisles over who like to discuss the previous night's TV viewing at full volume for an hour every morning.

Our QA department had an old-style manager for a while. She sent out an email (which I ignored) asking everyone to add a banner to the instant messaging system with their location, whether at home or in the office. Who cares? If you have IMs, the whole point is that you can be anywhere and still be reachable.

I guess I'd rather be part of the control group.




 

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2017, 06:04:34 PM »
When I worked the company allowed working from home.  But my department refused to allow it.  Micromanaging managers and higher ups in the department decided that physical presence is proof of work. 

When we had a weather condition we would work from home, but had to complete a detailed report of what exactly we did, for how long, down to the minutes.

So glad I don't have to be subjected to such nonsense any more.

Btag84

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2017, 06:05:46 PM »
I could not agree with this more. I recently read a book that covered this very thing. It was about the implementation of something called a Results Only Work Environment (ROWE) at Best Buy back in 2008 or so I think. It has since been disbanded (around 2013 when a new CEO came in I think), but it sounded really interesting. Basically, the corporate culture from the top down focused on results and metrics. Using something like "time" or "butts in seats" ceased to be a measure of productivity. Because, let's be honest, it isn't. Many people can look busy at their desk. Also, how much does productivity technically matter? If I am getting done what my supervisor requires of me and it takes me 10 hours or 6 hours, as long as its done on time and is quality work then that is all that should matter. Now, best buy did keep office space and people could come in if they preferred, or they could come in just for meetings, etc. Up to them. Unlimited vacation time too. Also, all meetings were optional. If you needed to participate in the meeting to get your work done, you went. If you didn't, then you could skip. Apparently, any time someone criticized people for coming in late or leaving early or skipping meetings the leadership encouraged others to point out that that behavior was ok and even encouraged and to tell the offender to stop being critical. Eventually, people got the idea. This sounds amazing to me. Now, you might say, of course productivity matters. If you finish the ten tasks I assigned you, I could give you two more. That is very true, but I can also stretch out the time it takes to get those ten tasks done to fill out my 40 hour work week. It all comes down to trust, we all want to be trusted and treated like adults. If employees are not trusted, they should be fired. Under this system people can work in the office if that works for them, or they can work in a coffee shop if home is full of distractions, or they can work at home. They can even work in a foreign country, but you have to be available if needed and make sure your work is getting done. As expected, they reported higher morale, lower turnover. Also, higher levels of productivity. Now, this would be tough for hourly workers of course, but it would work nicely for many knowledge workers I think. The beauty of this set up was that it was flexible, people can discuss with their manager and determine what works best for everyone.

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2017, 06:28:55 PM »
Micromanaging managers and higher ups in the department decided that physical presence is proof of work.


So much this.

twd000

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2017, 07:04:36 PM »
My situation is not the norm, but I work in defense and the security clearance and access system demands that the people working on a given program are located in the same room, working on a limited set of computers that are not connected to the internet.  Once you solve all the technical challenges of video conferencing, you would have to secure them to make everybody's house a SCIF. Not gonna happen.

ChpBstrd

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2017, 07:46:12 PM »
Sounds like we have 3 types of barriers: technical, psychological, and cultural.

The technical barriers are rapidly being resolved. The old conference call on a scratchy speakerphone will eventually be replaced with something like a 20 way high definition facetime on a 50" 4k screen with audiophile quality mics and speakers. Bandwidth will enable the rest. All this is currently possible. VR meetings may become a thing someday. It worked for the Jedi.

The psychological barriers involve some, but not all, people thriving in an interpersonal environment rather than interacting through email. What I'm envisioning is a remote environment that is just as interpersonal as reality. Maybe one of your screens has a video feed of your coworkers working, and you can click them to pop into their "cube" and ask a quick question or talk about your weekend. This is all hard to envision because our current understanding of WFH is sending emails and listening in on horrible audio quality conference calls. But with enough bandwidth and interactivity, you could actually improve upon the communicative benefits of the hated open office plan. If managers are worried about measuring results or ensuring short term motivation, they could try something like scrum methodology... even for operational activities.

The cultural barriers could be problematic. Current managers and execs got where they are today due to their skillset navigating the existing environment, and they can't count on being good in a different one. That alone predisposes them to keep the status quo. (Kind of like how politicians who were able to get elected in the current environment tend to oppose radical campaign finance reform.) They would have to see themselves being beat by lower-overhead competitors with online offices, and even then it's sometimes better to be captain of a sinking ship than a mediocre functionary on a floating one.

neo von retorch

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2017, 08:07:20 PM »
I agree with your assessment of technical, psychological and cultural barriers. Perhaps it falls into technical or cultural, but I'll reiterate that "measuring productivity" is a challenge both in and out of the office that anchors managers in the cultural barrier. In other words, in the absence of new, meaningful performance metrics, managers cling to what they have now. For many occupations, this may not be an obstacle. I'm thinking in terms of software: there are deliverables in the form of user stories aka feature requests, as well as successful passes through anything from automated testing to comprehensive qualitative quality assurance. I think many software firms have this figured out, though, so perhaps it just takes education to overcome this.

teen persuasion

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2017, 08:36:00 PM »
I sit and use a computer all day long (and things nearly grind to a halt when the internet  or VPN is down, but I have to be physically there to deal with walk-in patrons at all times (and have access to our collection, obviously).  We are working to getting more things switched to e-content, but it's a slow sell, and as another poster mentioned it's generational.  There are some areas experimenting with all electronic libraries, but they still have a physical location, just no books!

PAstash

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2017, 09:31:28 PM »
Selfishly, I consider my ability to network and form relationships and be polished in front of senior leadership and take charge in large groups as a significant reason why I'm at the level where I am today, and why I expect my career will continue to accelerate.  If I was forced to WFH, I'm not confident I could continue to advance if all I can do is interact electronically. 

I'm sure for others, it is 180* in the other direction; you feel if your work speaks for itself you will advance faster, but you aren't good at playing the network/politics/etc game.  No wrong answers, but one reason why I'd continue to fight to work in person.

so you are on the spectrum of brown nosing to full on ass kissing. Yes you would fail. Cause when it comes down to it the ability to wield a scalpel with a steady hand beats good bed side manor every time. This environment is tailored for the social manipulators when the real workers rarely reap the rewards. it was all do to your great... management ability /eye roll

LalsConstant

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2017, 06:03:48 AM »
I thought about this some more because my job is not one which could ever be 100% remote, but a hybrid approach of just coming on days I truly need to physically be somewhere would make a lot more sense.  Granted this would involve me coming to a physical site every day for months on end for certain projects, but it would still be an improvement and less waste.

The thing is, the most competitive organizations in my industry already do this.  Most staff in these firms don't even have a permanent office because they're expected to either be on site or working remotely.  The office is mostly available for them to reserve in case the team needs somewhere to work away from the client.  This saves the companies money since they have less overhead for office space and it makes these jobs more appealing.

I think it will only happen gradually.  Slowly the practices of the most competitive organizations tend to worm their way thru others.  But I hope to be nearly FI by the time I think it will happen.

Gondolin

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2017, 07:42:33 AM »
Lots of good points here and I think the thread has the issue 90% covered.

However, one further consideration is security. Are corporations truly allowing people to work on proprietary products and systems from their personal devices (or work laptops taken home)?

For a lot of jobs this would be a non-issue but, I can imagine that major companies would not want their bleeding edge tech distributed across dozens of devices in non-secure personal residences.

neo von retorch

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2017, 07:47:38 AM »
However, one further consideration is security. Are corporations truly allowing people to work on proprietary products and systems from their personal devices (or work laptops taken home)?

For a lot of jobs this would be a non-issue but, I can imagine that major companies would not want their bleeding edge tech distributed across dozens of devices in non-secure personal residences.

Now, I don't work for a "major company", but I would imagine any major company would have fingerprint scanners on their laptops (or some kind of annoying rotating password policy that actually hurts security), but they probably still issue laptops and VPN access. All but the most secure companies would already facilitate some remote work with security protocols of some sort. Changing the frequency of remote work wouldn't really change this. Now, if they were actually letting you set everything up on a personal home computer, that might be a different story, but the IT department of a company that concerned about security just wouldn't do that. They'd still issue the laptop and retain control over it - they could probably even manage software updates remotely. Short of the example above where the computers are not even connected to the internet, or other "really secure" applications, I think this is reasonably covered.

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2017, 07:53:10 AM »
i think its just an old school idea.  Just like the 40 hour work week is now outdated but will take years to change.  Also hard in my field of consulting.  How can we bill 40 hours if we arent in the office or at work 40 hours.  I realize this could be done from home.  personally i think everything around our society is about to change profoundly with the millenial generation hitting management positions. 

golden1

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2017, 08:23:41 AM »
Quote
WFH is a fantasy for many introverts, but personally I would DIE doing it every day.  No way, no how, no thanks.  I'm also relatively visual; I solve problems best when I can sit in a room with you or look over your shoulder or something and we can take notes or use a whiteboard or what have you.  Given how every single conference call ever contains tons of "sorry, couldn't dial in" and "whoops, didn't mute and started talking" or "didn't UNmute and started talking" and "sorry, what was that, I was multitasking" and on and on and on and I think it would be a disaster.  Sure, if you do a solitary task and don't collaborate with anyone all day, I get it, but I'd say I'm 60/40 meetings (formal and informal)/solitary work.  And how do you ever learn how to work with groups and manage people and move around an organization if you sit holed up in your home alone all the time?

I am somewhat introverted, but I would still not want to work from home every day.  1-2 days a week would be ideal.   I am in research, and my typical week is 2-3 days of lab work, 1 day of report writing, 1 day of "misc other" (meetings, emails, phone calls, computer research etc..)  I could do my report writing and phone calls from home.  I like getting out of the house and going to work a few days a week, and I think psychologically, working from home would be a disaster for me.  I'd become a shut in. 

Chris22

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2017, 08:40:27 AM »
Selfishly, I consider my ability to network and form relationships and be polished in front of senior leadership and take charge in large groups as a significant reason why I'm at the level where I am today, and why I expect my career will continue to accelerate.  If I was forced to WFH, I'm not confident I could continue to advance if all I can do is interact electronically. 

I'm sure for others, it is 180* in the other direction; you feel if your work speaks for itself you will advance faster, but you aren't good at playing the network/politics/etc game.  No wrong answers, but one reason why I'd continue to fight to work in person.

so you are on the spectrum of brown nosing to full on ass kissing. Yes you would fail. Cause when it comes down to it the ability to wield a scalpel with a steady hand beats good bed side manor every time. This environment is tailored for the social manipulators when the real workers rarely reap the rewards. it was all do to your great... management ability /eye roll

There's the reaction I expected. 

And quite frankly, demonstrates the problem too many have in my field.  You, and many others, have the view that "ability to wield a scalpel with a steady hand" is the most important.  And frankly, that's false.  I think there are a lot of people who don't understand the 80/20 rule and the "good plan violently executed now beats a perfect plan next week" theory.  Basically, I think too many people, especially in accounting and finance, sit quietly banging away at their spreadsheets chasing perfection.  In reality, perfection is not a worthwhile goal.  My job, as I see it, is to gather information and as soon as it is "close enough" (materially and directionally accurate, in my world), summarize, analyze, and get it in the hands of decision makers ASAP.  I don't NEED to be perfect, and in fact, if I'm chasing perfection I'm being derelict. 

My job is really to pimp out information and beat people over the head with it and force them to make decisions; if I quietly and diligently pound away in the background making sure my work is perfect then decisions aren't being made and the corporation isn't moving forward.

ChpBstrd

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2017, 09:07:32 AM »
Thanks for all your feedback. I'm not hearing any major deal-killer problems that would prevent millions of office workers from WFH most days within the next 10 years. Culture and tech are improving. People who don't like the change (e.g. office extroverts, old school managers) will retire or change careers just like technophobes did back in the days when PCs were introduced.

Consequences include:
1) Traffic will get better, as fewer people commute.
2) Office real estate and car companies might not be safe investments.
3) Office work may start to prioritize a different skillset than in the past, such as self-direction and precise use of new communication tools.
4) High speed home internet (e.g. 100MBs) will become a job requirement and a normal thing to have. The telecom firms may benefit most, as people upgrade.
5) Thousands of lives will be saved.
6) Some company or companies will make billions selling the software that would enable this. I'm thinking either Microsoft, Salesforce, Google, or - perhaps more likely - a new market entrant. Investors would be wise to watch for companies that enable the WFH revolution.

Also, anyone want to start a software company? :)

JLee

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2017, 09:22:41 AM »
Lots of good points here and I think the thread has the issue 90% covered.

However, one further consideration is security. Are corporations truly allowing people to work on proprietary products and systems from their personal devices (or work laptops taken home)? 

For a lot of jobs this would be a non-issue but, I can imagine that major companies would not want their bleeding edge tech distributed across dozens of devices in non-secure personal residences.

I don't understand how you are jumping this gap.

BlueMR2

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2017, 09:53:18 AM »
2 reasons for me:

1) High speed reliable Internet is not a thing where I live.  I've tried telecommuting, but often had those days cut short by having to drive in anyways when my Internet went down.

2) The "If I can't see you, you're not working" people in the office

Uturn

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2017, 10:03:32 AM »
Lots of good points here and I think the thread has the issue 90% covered.

However, one further consideration is security. Are corporations truly allowing people to work on proprietary products and systems from their personal devices (or work laptops taken home)? 

For a lot of jobs this would be a non-issue but, I can imagine that major companies would not want their bleeding edge tech distributed across dozens of devices in non-secure personal residences.

As an information security engineer, I can tell you that there is a difference between allowing and being able to stop it.  No one except the security team views security as an asset.  Management sees security as a money drain, and employees see security as a hindrance to production.  Let's say the company does institute a no data at home policy.  How do we stop the data from leaving the building? 

* epoxy the USB ports
* block all cloud storage (box, one-drive, Amazon, etc..)
* block all external email such as gmail
* block all attachments in corporate email
* do not allow laptops or other portable devices

Yep, that should do it, but how much production will be halted?  How pissed are the users going to be and what will be the consequences of them being pissed?  The second one is a hidden cost, but it is still a cost to the business.

So instead, let's choose which data is allowed to leave.  There is technology out there that can do this, but it starts with a very labor intensive project of classifying and marking the data so that the technology can make a decision based on the classification.  This is not a low cost proposition and you still need to show management that this will increase profit.

If you can come up with the solution, I'm pretty sure you can FIRE within a year. 


JLee

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2017, 10:19:07 AM »
Lots of good points here and I think the thread has the issue 90% covered.

However, one further consideration is security. Are corporations truly allowing people to work on proprietary products and systems from their personal devices (or work laptops taken home)? 

For a lot of jobs this would be a non-issue but, I can imagine that major companies would not want their bleeding edge tech distributed across dozens of devices in non-secure personal residences.

As an information security engineer, I can tell you that there is a difference between allowing and being able to stop it.  No one except the security team views security as an asset.  Management sees security as a money drain, and employees see security as a hindrance to production.  Let's say the company does institute a no data at home policy.  How do we stop the data from leaving the building? 

* epoxy the USB ports
* block all cloud storage (box, one-drive, Amazon, etc..)
* block all external email such as gmail
* block all attachments in corporate email
* do not allow laptops or other portable devices

Yep, that should do it, but how much production will be halted?  How pissed are the users going to be and what will be the consequences of them being pissed?  The second one is a hidden cost, but it is still a cost to the business.

So instead, let's choose which data is allowed to leave.  There is technology out there that can do this, but it starts with a very labor intensive project of classifying and marking the data so that the technology can make a decision based on the classification.  This is not a low cost proposition and you still need to show management that this will increase profit.

If you can come up with the solution, I'm pretty sure you can FIRE within a year.

And use security hardware on the desktop computers so nobody can simply pull a disk and walk out with it. 

mm1970

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2017, 10:30:44 AM »
Selfishly, I consider my ability to network and form relationships and be polished in front of senior leadership and take charge in large groups as a significant reason why I'm at the level where I am today, and why I expect my career will continue to accelerate.  If I was forced to WFH, I'm not confident I could continue to advance if all I can do is interact electronically. 

I'm sure for others, it is 180* in the other direction; you feel if your work speaks for itself you will advance faster, but you aren't good at playing the network/politics/etc game.  No wrong answers, but one reason why I'd continue to fight to work in person.

so you are on the spectrum of brown nosing to full on ass kissing. Yes you would fail. Cause when it comes down to it the ability to wield a scalpel with a steady hand beats good bed side manor every time. This environment is tailored for the social manipulators when the real workers rarely reap the rewards. it was all do to your great... management ability /eye roll

There's the reaction I expected. 

And quite frankly, demonstrates the problem too many have in my field.  You, and many others, have the view that "ability to wield a scalpel with a steady hand" is the most important.  And frankly, that's false.  I think there are a lot of people who don't understand the 80/20 rule and the "good plan violently executed now beats a perfect plan next week" theory.  Basically, I think too many people, especially in accounting and finance, sit quietly banging away at their spreadsheets chasing perfection.  In reality, perfection is not a worthwhile goal.  My job, as I see it, is to gather information and as soon as it is "close enough" (materially and directionally accurate, in my world), summarize, analyze, and get it in the hands of decision makers ASAP.  I don't NEED to be perfect, and in fact, if I'm chasing perfection I'm being derelict. 

My job is really to pimp out information and beat people over the head with it and force them to make decisions; if I quietly and diligently pound away in the background making sure my work is perfect then decisions aren't being made and the corporation isn't moving forward.
I had a similar reaction...different industry (engineering) with plenty of introverts.  Of course, the "Chris22" person in my company is literally incapable of getting work done correctly. Not just "not perfect" but "out and out wrong". But he's a schmoozer.

mm1970

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2017, 10:34:20 AM »
I agree with most of the other parts though.

I'm able to WFH sometimes.  I can get a lot done when there are no distractions.  Of course, I share an office with a door with a guy who WFH a lot too.  My boss very much supports it.

However, I'm also a visual person and it is very helpful for me to be physically at work looking at a drawing or image and discussing it.  Also, I manage projects, and there are a few people that do work for me - that I literally cannot get them to do unless I bug them physically.

also, because of their general slow response time, I've taken over some of the physical work.  Like sending things out to vendors.

The biggest problems while AT home are:
1. Distractions
2. slow VPN.  A lot of what I do is data analysis, and it's very slow to pull data from our databases on the VPN.

Uturn

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2017, 11:19:18 AM »

The biggest problems while AT home are:
1. Distractions
2. slow VPN.  A lot of what I do is data analysis, and it's very slow to pull data from our databases on the VPN.

If your company has a lot of WFH folks, or is moving in that direction, there is technology that can speed up data transfers over your VPN.  But it doesn't cost justify until about 10 people. 

ChpBstrd

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2017, 11:21:23 AM »
Selfishly, I consider my ability to network and form relationships and be polished in front of senior leadership and take charge in large groups as a significant reason why I'm at the level where I am today, and why I expect my career will continue to accelerate.  If I was forced to WFH, I'm not confident I could continue to advance if all I can do is interact electronically. 

I'm sure for others, it is 180* in the other direction; you feel if your work speaks for itself you will advance faster, but you aren't good at playing the network/politics/etc game.  No wrong answers, but one reason why I'd continue to fight to work in person.

so you are on the spectrum of brown nosing to full on ass kissing. Yes you would fail. Cause when it comes down to it the ability to wield a scalpel with a steady hand beats good bed side manor every time. This environment is tailored for the social manipulators when the real workers rarely reap the rewards. it was all do to your great... management ability /eye roll

There's the reaction I expected. 

And quite frankly, demonstrates the problem too many have in my field.  You, and many others, have the view that "ability to wield a scalpel with a steady hand" is the most important.  And frankly, that's false.  I think there are a lot of people who don't understand the 80/20 rule and the "good plan violently executed now beats a perfect plan next week" theory.  Basically, I think too many people, especially in accounting and finance, sit quietly banging away at their spreadsheets chasing perfection.  In reality, perfection is not a worthwhile goal.  My job, as I see it, is to gather information and as soon as it is "close enough" (materially and directionally accurate, in my world), summarize, analyze, and get it in the hands of decision makers ASAP.  I don't NEED to be perfect, and in fact, if I'm chasing perfection I'm being derelict. 

My job is really to pimp out information and beat people over the head with it and force them to make decisions; if I quietly and diligently pound away in the background making sure my work is perfect then decisions aren't being made and the corporation isn't moving forward.
I had a similar reaction...different industry (engineering) with plenty of introverts.  Of course, the "Chris22" person in my company is literally incapable of getting work done correctly. Not just "not perfect" but "out and out wrong". But he's a schmoozer.

The technical solution to commuting that I'm envisioning probably wouldn't change the age old conflict between people with high interpersonal skill but low technical skill versus people with low interpersonal skill but high technical skill. Those ends of the spectrum will always see each other as obstacles to work around.

I'm basically talking about replacing the tools, rich synchronous communication, and productivity monitoring functions of an office. If the replacement functioned really well, office politics and productivity would resume as always, but at a much lower cost.

Again, it's hard to imagine ultra-fast reliable VPN, innovative software/hardware, and new management techniques. We're definitely not talking email, SharePoint, or conference calls any more. Those old tech systems disadvantage the interpersonally skilled, but the forseeable future will not necessarily do so.

dignam

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2017, 11:37:13 AM »
My company is pretty relaxed about working from home.  Half of our employees are remote, spread around the country.  The vast majority of us that come into the office are on the tech side (devs, QA, sys/db admins, and all their mgmt.)  No one would bat an eye if I told them I'm finishing the day from home today.

You would THINK that introverts such as us would love to work from home.  I've tried it, and it's cool for a day or three but overall I prefer working in the office near my colleagues.  There's something to be said about physically walking over to someone's desk to bounce an idea off of them, and vice versa.  Most here would agree with me.

Also, my home is for recuperating.  Granted I am on call and don't have a problem taking care of emergencies there, I like having the distinction between work and home.

And *gasp*, yes I'm a millennial ;)

As far as productivity/cost savings: tough to say.  I'm sure management would prefer to have closer tabs on us, but I sense zero trust issues here at all so I don't think that would be a barrier to WFH.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 11:39:29 AM by dignam »

MayDay

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2017, 11:56:42 AM »
My company is 100% home office.

I am an introverted engineer and I hate it. It is just so distracting to be at home. Look, dishes! Look, sunny day! Look, laundry to fold! Look, a really good book!

I use text, vidoe conference, etc and it's just not the same as developing in person relationships. The casual exchange of ideas is not the same.

My H is also an engineer and more introverted than I am, and his job is more individual (modelling) and he still very much finds value in being in the same room as the people who run the actual process that he models.

Moral of the story, there is no reason why many/most computer based jobs couldn't be a combination. 1-4 days at home each week, 1-4 days in the office, tailored to the job and the individual.

But I wonder how many people in favor of working from home 100% in theory will enjoy it in reality.

aschmidt2930

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2017, 12:02:55 PM »
Honestly, it's a lot of legacy thinking in high positions in most organizations.  At least that is imho.

I believe we will only ever see slow gradual change on this and then we will look back and wonder what we're we thinking.  The culture has to shift.

Completely agreed.  On a positive note, we're getting closer to the point where people who grew up in the age of the internet are starting to work their way into upper management and executive roles. 

Of course, this is a bit ageist.  There's certainly older execs who are among the most forward-thinking and tech-savvy of anyone in the workforce, but speaking in generalities, most are waaaay behind the times.

VR has the potential to be huge in this area.  The ability to be "face to face" for the handful of meetings that there's a benefit will make remote work even more feasible.

herbgeek

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2017, 12:15:38 PM »
I work for a division of a Fortune 50 company.  Our parent company as well as our subsidiary encourages working at home.  It saves them a ton of money, is a great retention tool, and allows them to hire the best people regardless of where they live.

What I think makes it successful for us, is that almost everyone works from home, managers included.  Other places where just individual contributors (like programmers) worked at home were not as successful.  We have good VPN and sharing tools.  My job is in project management and so I'm talking to people all day whether it be through IM or IP phone or one of our collaboration tools.  I can do just as much smoozing remotely as I would in an office, probably more, since we're all distributed across 2 continents so there is no "there" to go to if I wanted to smooze.   I'm not much of a smoozer, but I can do it remotely.  I prefer to have my work speak for itself (projects meeting deadlines etc).

By the end of the week, yes I'm going to the grocery store at lunch just to get out of the house.  But on the whole, its good.  I can take of personal business (like being home for the cable person) without taking time off,  I don't spend 2 hours in a car, don't have to iron clothes, pack a lunch, put on makeup.  I have so much free time during the day.  And on days where I'm not super busy, I don't have to "look" busy.

Not always crazy about my boss, or sometimes the direction we're going, but I stay because I can work in my sweatpants and don't have to deal with much of the unpleasantness of being in an office and can just focus on getting my work done.

crispy

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2017, 12:31:49 PM »
I work in a hospital. 'Nuff said.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2017, 12:45:25 PM »
I work in a hospital. 'Nuff said.

I do video production in a hospital. I don't have a 270TB fibre channel server at my house. And if I did, nobody else would be able to access it at fibre speeds.

I try to WFH when I have lightweight tasks, but they're few and far between. Usually, I just end up doing them in the evening to pick up some extra hours.

bittheory

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2017, 12:48:06 PM »
I think it's mainly because most managers are control freaks and seeing their employees in the office gives them a greater sense of control.

THIS. I work for a small business and my boss NEVER allows us to work from home, even though we could at least once a month when times are slow. I am 100% convinced it's because since he's the owner of the company who is responsible for my paycheck, he believes I'm responsible for sitting at a desk even when it's unnecessary.

Gondolin

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2017, 12:50:05 PM »
Quote
Yep, that should do it, but how much production will be halted?  How pissed are the users going to be and what will be the consequences of them being pissed?  The second one is a hidden cost, but it is still a cost to the business.

So instead, let's choose which data is allowed to leave.  There is technology out there that can do this, but it starts with a very labor intensive project of classifying and marking the data so that the technology can make a decision based on the classification.  This is not a low cost proposition and you still need to show management that this will increase profit.

If you can come up with the solution, I'm pretty sure you can FIRE within a year.

I don't have a solution. I work in one of the few industries where security is not considered a drain on profit and often takes precedence over production at customer demand. Most of the solutions you listed are implemented to one degree or another. I know most other industries are way more lax and see security as a burden (as you said).

If I was a black hat and found out that company X had a big new project while employing an all remote workforce, I'd have their addresses and be nabbing laptops out of living rooms within the week.

I don't know, maybe it wouldn't be an issue.

tonysemail

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Re: WTF do we still commute to work to sit and use a computer???
« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2017, 01:12:13 PM »
my company allows WFH and has very flexible hours... it's clearly the way of the future.
We have too few parking spaces (cubicals > parking spots), so telecommuting and alternative transport are encouraged.
In practice, not everyone can be productive from home, so most people still drive in.

I agree this is a killer app for VR.
logging into a virtual office combines the best benefits of WFH and being in person.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!