Wow! 85K in FL is more than 115K in NYC?

[retireatbirth]

I'm looking into relocating from NYC to Tampa, FL so I did some calculations to estimate what I would need to make in Tampa. I kept it fairly simple as I'm in the early phases. This is for a frugal single person. Here's what I did:

Expenses:
- $900 less rent in Tampa for a 1 BR (estimating $1k in Tampa)
- $100/mo. more in Tampa for gas + car insurance over what I currently pay on public transportation
- Everything else basically identical, Tampa will obviously end up being a bit cheaper on some other things

Income:
- 1 allowance
- Full $18k/yr. 401k deduction
- No other deductions assumed (e.g., health insurance, dental)

http://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/salary/

Here are the monthly non 401k savings:

$115k in NYC = $1,554

$115k in Tampa = $3,401
$95k in Tampa = $2,325
$90k in Tampa = $2,043
$85k in Tampa = $1,679

So Tampa is STILL better than NYC financially when you're making $30k less! Did I mess up somewhere or forget something significant? It just seems like a crazy amount and has me excited to make the move.

[pbkmaine]

There's also the fact that Florida has no state income tax.

[retireatbirth]

There's also the fact that Florida has no state income tax.

Yeah I looked at the $2k difference on the $115k comparison and half comes from taxes, half from lower COL.

[pbkmaine]

We have lived in New Jersey and Maine, and by and large find Florida to be much less expensive. There are so many beautiful inexpensive places to visit and so many activities that are cheap or free.

[serpentstooth]

$115k is close enough to our income in NYC that I can describe the standard of living it'll get you: no car, a 2 bedroom apartment in Queens (rented for most people, we got lucky and were able to buy under a narrow set of circumstances), infrequent meals out, a non-working wife and infant, no vacationing, and enough savings to max a 401k, two IRAs, throw whatever we can into a self employed retirement account, and that's about it. That sounds really whiny, but it's not. We're doing well, I'm happy with our savings (when we had DINK money our SR was a lot higher, but that's a given) and the things I dislike about our lives here wouldn't be fixed with more money. Having a non-working spouse is a pretty awesome thing all on its own.

[retireatbirth]

$115k is close enough to our income in NYC that I can describe the standard of living it'll get you: no car, a 2 bedroom apartment in Queens (rented for most people, we got lucky and were able to buy under a narrow set of circumstances), infrequent meals out, a non-working wife and infant, no vacationing, and enough savings to max a 401k, two IRAs, throw whatever we can into a self employed retirement account, and that's about it. That sounds really whiny, but it's not. We're doing well, I'm happy with our savings (when we had DINK money our SR was a lot higher, but that's a given) and the things I dislike about our lives here wouldn't be fixed with more money. Having a non-working spouse is a pretty awesome thing all on its own.

Yeah, Queens is where I live now.

[Samala]

I think most COL calculators would concur.  I know when I moved down from the Northeast I was happy about the downshift in most expenses. 

$1k for a 1 bedroom does seem on the low side, but that's just quibbling.

We have lived in New Jersey and Maine, and by and large find Florida to be much less expensive. There are so many beautiful inexpensive places to visit and so many activities that are cheap or free.

PBK said it best.  Tons of beautiful places that are dirt cheap excursions and the weather is bike-worthy almost the entire year (I'm a wuss and opt out of biking in August usually).   If you really love all the cultural aspects of NYC it might be a rough transition, and you will probably never have a great bagel ever again (lol!), but Florida has tremendous upside. 

[soupcxan]

and you will probably never have a great bagel ever again (lol!)

I don't know about Tampa but South Florida has a lot of retired NYers, and therefore a fair number of NY-style delis.

[realityinabox]

Idk if I could ever live in Florida, but COL should be a huge factor is deciding where to live for any Mustachian.  I'm in a moderately low COL area.  I'd need a 10-15% bump in pay to move to a more desirable area (CO or MN for me) just to cover COL changes.

[2ndTimer]

I have no problem believing this.  We dramatically cut our cost of living by moving less than 100 miles from our previous home.  COL really does vary wildly with location.

[retireatbirth]

I think most COL calculators would concur.  I know when I moved down from the Northeast I was happy about the downshift in most expenses. 

$1k for a 1 bedroom does seem on the low side, but that's just quibbling.

We have lived in New Jersey and Maine, and by and large find Florida to be much less expensive. There are so many beautiful inexpensive places to visit and so many activities that are cheap or free.

PBK said it best.  Tons of beautiful places that are dirt cheap excursions and the weather is bike-worthy almost the entire year (I'm a wuss and opt out of biking in August usually).   If you really love all the cultural aspects of NYC it might be a rough transition, and you will probably never have a great bagel ever again (lol!), but Florida has tremendous upside.

My biggest concern is the humidity! I hate humidity, but I think the upgrades of a modern apartment (vs. 1920s NYC apt building) and getting around in an air conditioned car will make it a bit easier to deal with. I'm not really keen on going back to a car lifestyle, but I suppose I'll adjust.

[Daisy]

and you will probably never have a great bagel ever again (lol!)

I don't know about Tampa but South Florida has a lot of retired NYers, and therefore a fair number of NY-style delis.

There are a lot better things in South Florida to eat than NY bagels. Just saying...

I'm back to the minimal A/C + no heat time of the year in South Florida. My last electric bill was $35.

[pbkmaine]

If you ever get to The Villages, Florida, stop by Brooklyn Water Bagels. They make a very respectable bagel.

[minority_finance_mo]

and you will probably never have a great bagel ever again (lol!)

I don't know about Tampa but South Florida has a lot of retired NYers, and therefore a fair number of NY-style delis.

A friend of mine owns delis in both NY and NJ. He actually makes his bagels from NY each day and gets them delivered to NJ. Apparently the taste comes from NY tap water, not preparation. (Which is why any New Yorker who has had NJ bagels has been disappointed.)

[minority_finance_mo]

The no state income tax thing is so huge though - something I often forget to take into account. I am a single filer in NYC and have paid nearly as much in state taxes as I pay in Fed. Income tax between the NY tax, NYC tax, and NY SSI. This is with my maxing my 401K and tIRA.

[Samala]

If you ever get to The Villages, Florida, stop by Brooklyn Water Bagels. They make a very respectable bagel.

Oh yes?  I'll have to try them if I ever get back up there.  :)

I'm back to the minimal A/C + no heat time of the year in South Florida. My last electric bill was $35.

YES!  I'm so excited to see my usage go down.  Last month was $45 (summertime often ~$60-70 range).  $35 is really impressive, you must be down to almost nothing in Jan/Feb when its windows-open-all-the-time weather.  :)

[Daisy]

My electric bill is smaller now that I am in a condo. I only pay for internal electricity, no outside  lights. My building maintenance fee includes external electricity. But really it's just the elevator and external garage lights for that.

I think my low in a house was probably closer to 45.

[Bob W]

Dang,  when I read these numbers  I always am thankful to live in the Ozarks paradise.   LCOL areas rock.   No traffic, low crime,  great scenery,  nice people,  slow pace. 

[Tetsuya Hondo]

I'm only surprised the gap isn't wider.

There's a big country outside of NYC and nearly all if it is a lot cheaper. Heck, a lot of it is less expensive than Tampa.

[TVRodriguez]

My electric bill is smaller now that I am in a condo. I only pay for internal electricity, no outside  lights. My building maintenance fee includes external electricity. But really it's just the elevator and external garage lights for that.

I think my low in a house was probably closer to 45.

Wow, I find that really impressive.  Kudos to you.  We are in So Florida, too, and I have been keeping the ac off as much as I can (and the temp as high as I dare), and the lowest I've gotten our bill is . . . well, it's still much higher than $45.  And we're in a small house (1250 sq ft) that's old and has thick cinder block walls.  We have a new ac unit, a tankless water heater, newer appliances with good energy star ratings, and it is still tough.

[JLee]

I have no problem believing this.  We dramatically cut our cost of living by moving less than 100 miles from our previous home.  COL really does vary wildly with location.

Having moved from Phoenix to just-outside-NYC recently, I have no problem believing this either.

[Daisy]

My electric bill is smaller now that I am in a condo. I only pay for internal electricity, no outside  lights. My building maintenance fee includes exterunal electricity. But really it's just the elevator and external garage lights for that.

I think my low in a house was probably closer to 45.

Wow, I find that really impressive.  Kudos to you.  We are in So Florida, too, and I have been keeping the ac off as much as I can (and the temp as high as I dare), and the lowest I've gotten our bill is . . . well, it's still much higher than $45.  And we're in a small house (1250 sq ft) that's old and has thick cinder block walls.  We have a new ac unit, a tankless water heater, newer appliances with good energy star ratings, and it is still tough.

Well I'm  not home most of the day so I only use AC at night. It might also help that the lady upstairs keeps her AC running all day for her cats. She told me she spends almost $300 on electricity each month. The family downstairs probably has the AC on during the day too. So maybe that's keeping my place cooler? I'm not at the top floor either so no heat coming in  from a roof?

Since my top and bottom neighbors have told me they spend over $200 a month, I must be doing something differently.

I also live alone. I use my computer a lot but not the TV as much. Oh, and my neighbor lets me use here wifi. I pay her for it but she is supplying the electricity for the wireless router.

[UnleashHell]

just outside Tampa here.
i live in a booming area with rising prices.

Its still cheaper than when I used to live in NH and I'm sure its a hell of a lot cheaper than nyc.

we have a SFH and people home all the time. just paid last months electric bill - still running AC and it was 135. for 4 people and nearly everything runs on electricity.

[Maxman]

If you ever get to The Villages, Florida, stop by Brooklyn Water Bagels. They make a very respectable bagel.

We live in the Villages and my wife eats those bagels often. Unfortunately I eat gluten free. BTW we found central Florida to be much cheaper then when we lived in the Washington/Baltimore area. Gasoline, property taxes, alcohol, golf to name a few are less here. And of course no income tax. The first full year we were here it was a pleasure not to have to do a state turbo tax form.

[NYCWife]

My husband and I have lived in both FL (quite near Tampa) and NYC (currently living in Washington Heights). I think that your calculations are correct. When we lived in FL, we had a 3 BR/2 BA home with a $1600 monthly mortgage payment. I don't think it's at all unreasonable to pay $1000 for 1BR apt in Florida.

- Groceries were significantly cheaper
- Restaurants were also significantly cheaper
- As others have mentioned, taxes will be better in FL as well

Good luck with the move!

[Mrs. PoP]

Taxes and housing make a huge difference. I actually ran the numbers on a hypothetical move from DC to FL a couple of years back, and even with lower salaries in FL, you could bank way more money.  They're here if you're curious - http://www.plantingourpennies.com/move-to-florida/ 

[Fishindude]

Yep, Florida is pretty reasonable place to live.
In addition to the nice weather, that's why so many folks go down there to retire.

[UnleashHell]

Yep, Florida is pretty reasonable place to live.
In addition to the nice weather, that's why so many folks go down there to retire.

Plus with an older population they die out quicker which means more estate sales and real estate hitting the market. Helps keep the prices down.

[Bearded Man]

Been assessing Spokane WA vs Clearwater/Tampa or St. Petersburg Florida myself. No state income tax in either location, and ideal rental property markets. Florida get's the nod for overall cheaper cost of living and better weather, not to mention no estate tax. But gf's family is all here in WA, and I have a couple former colleagues moving to Spokane in the near future as well. Decisions, decisions.

Sometimes I wonder why I don't just cash out and go do it now. I could buy 3 houses paid in cash, rent two of them out, live in one and have at least twice my expense income. If I bought four rentals it'd be four times my expense income. I'd still have 200+K in index or dividend funds as well if I only bought the two rentals and a paid off house. Guess I'm just hustling to add more buffer...