Author Topic: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?  (Read 5632 times)

FiftyIsTheNewTwenty

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I really hate HOAs, and HOA fees.  But are they really a bad expense?  Currently paying $85 which includes lawn mowing.  I'm not sure I could pay a lawn service that little.  Might $225 be worth it for all exterior maintenance?  For example, I may need a new roof here soon, probably for $10k.

New house also:

  • In a way better location, to the point of cutting local car trips by half or more
  • Bike for many of those trips
  • Very close to beach -- bike or even walk
  • Better appreciation potential, because of last 3 points, and surrounding new neighborhoods already priced 50-100% more
  • Very low flood risk, an issue around here

If we can say a $225 fee were put toward a mortgage instead, it would buy what, $50k more house?  If this house plus that $50k is still a good deal, is it still a good deal?  Is this a good way of looking at it?  Maybe the HOA fees are worth it.

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2018, 03:36:40 PM »
I would never buy in an HOA if there was another option.

That might be the fee and service that exists now, but it doesn't mean it will stay that way.

bacchi

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2018, 03:37:52 PM »
If HOA fees are completely used for maintenance and other shit you'd normally pay for, it's pretty close to a wash.

However, using OPM (Other People's Money) makes a lot of people, including HOA board members, become profligate. They don't do adequate research, their cousin will do a good job, and spending money on a new $50k fountain suddenly makes a lot of sense.

There's also no concept of DIY in an HOA. For example, I'd never pay $85 for lawn mowing and I'm happy to replace exterior trim and/or siding myself.

This also ignores the assholes that HOA boards tend to attract.

beer-man

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2018, 04:02:51 PM »
Do the math and decide if it’s worth it for you. If I’m gonna have a lawn guy I want to have the power to fire him and not to have to go through an HOA.
 Are you a DIY kind of guy? Your post makes it seem like you aren’t and are looking forward to being a kept man.
 For me it’s not worth it, I enjoy home maintenance. I’m in an HOA but just pay $200 quarter for gates/pool/gym/clubhouse.
 People want extra shit but I always point at our low rates and the fact that it attracts so many families. I’m also board treasurer so have to also worry about community maintenance and budgeting reserves for such.


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partdopy

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2018, 05:16:16 PM »
It's risky, I've had great HOA's and terrible ones.

I like doing home maintenance myself, but if you don't it's worth it, provided they don't turn out to be terrible people. Always remember that the HOA board is made up of the people who both like to complain and have lots of free time

PDXTabs

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2018, 05:45:55 PM »
I would only ever pay an HOA in a condo. I currently live in a rented condo and the fee is ~$225/mo, but that includes taking care of the roof, siding, and paint for the exterior (plus trash service).

ETBen

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2018, 07:13:29 PM »
I pay an HOA that amount for my townhouse. I’m a single mother with a busy full time job. So I don’t mind paying in order to have the time with my kids. It includes roof etc. But my house costs twice as much as that for the same HOA amount.

Blackbeard

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2018, 09:33:36 PM »
Just a suggestion.  Take a look at their balance sheet.  See how much they have in a rainy day fund.  I live at a resort that has seven different HOAs.  6 out of the 7 had no money to handle the maintenance they were supposed to be doing.   

The worst/extreme example, one association was forced to assess a $20,000 per condo fee for replacing siding and outer sheet wood because of a mold issue.  They had quotes to replace the siding dating six or seven years ago, but everyone voted it down because they didn’t have the funds and they would have had to raise dues...  legally there was nothing any one could do.

With that said, I’m handy and still like all my HOA fees do for me. 

Exflyboy

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2018, 09:58:14 PM »
I'd rather gouge my eyes out then give somebody else the power to tell me what I can/can't do on MY property!

Fees are not even the issue for me..  But any fee would adding insult to injury.

I just don't do HOA's

Adam Zapple

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2018, 05:11:42 AM »
The nice thing about HOA's is they help protect your investment by (hopefully) ensuring that all of the properties in your neighborhood are kept up.  In my neighborhood right now, there are two or three blighted properties.  This is causing other people issues who are trying to sell their houses. 

I second checking the balance sheet.  Ask what happens when major upgrades are needed.  Is everyone assessed or is there enough money put away for large capital projects?

beer-man

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2018, 10:17:26 AM »
Capital projects should be budgeted for and taken out of a pooled reserves. No need for any special assessments unless poor reserve planning


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Adam Zapple

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2018, 05:41:23 PM »
Capital projects should be budgeted for and taken out of a pooled reserves. No need for any special assessments unless poor reserve planning


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While this should be the case, it often is not.  Most, if not all of the HOAs in my town assess for large projects.  There is always "can kicking"

beer-man

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2018, 07:28:28 PM »
Well I’ll rephrase and state that all ongoing maintenance(roof, pool, roads, cameras, gates) should have a reserve fund allotment.
 
Items unforeseen or capital improvements can warrant  be a special assessment and a 2/3rds majority vote of the community.


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the_fixer

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2018, 08:21:17 AM »
Yep as a board member of a 400 unit community we have a reserve study completed on a regular basis that breaks down how often everything needs to be done and how much we should plan for each item in the future and at what level our reserve's should be funded. This information is available to all residents in our community.

In a well managed HOA there should be money to take care of the property and maintain it as well as some money to deal with unforseen issues.

Our board is pretty good, we look for ways to save money and keep fees low while keeping the property looking nice and values safe.

Our HOA fees are around $225 a month and that takes care of everything including snow removal, trash, sewer, 4 hot tubs, 2 fitness centers, a pool, 6 BBQ grills, clubhouse and all exterior maintenance.

My insurance is $309 dollars a year as the HOA covers everything except our personal items so we save about $800 a year in insurance and do not need to spend anything on exterior maintenance and get the use of all of the amenities.

I feel like I get a good value for the money I spend on HOA fees in this community.

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beer-man

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2018, 08:31:35 AM »
We had a reserve study done 10yrs ago for a cost but have done internal reserve studies to save significant costs. They are fairly simple to do once you know everything you have to budget for and the general costs.
 The only thing that changes is inflation and regional costs and situational costs. For example re-roofing costs are artificially high due to a hurricane that tore through last year. I expect roof work to be artificially high for another year or two until the backlog is worked through.


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Imma

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2018, 10:27:26 AM »
Just a suggestion.  Take a look at their balance sheet.  See how much they have in a rainy day fund.  I live at a resort that has seven different HOAs.  6 out of the 7 had no money to handle the maintenance they were supposed to be doing.   

The worst/extreme example, one association was forced to assess a $20,000 per condo fee for replacing siding and outer sheet wood because of a mold issue.  They had quotes to replace the siding dating six or seven years ago, but everyone voted it down because they didn’t have the funds and they would have had to raise dues...  legally there was nothing any one could do.

With that said, I’m handy and still like all my HOA fees do for me.

This is very good advice. Do your research!! There are many advantages and disavantages to a HOA and personally I'd never take the risk, but if you do, check their books. Make sure they have maintenance plans, budgets and the necessary funds in their accounts.

Another important thing is to check who's running it. Is it ran by homeowners, or are they hiring a management association to run it for them? Management associations might be very expensive, but on the other hand, sometimes homeowners don't really know what they're doing and screw up.

Also check who owns the other homes. Especially in apartment buildings it happens all the time that a large percentage of the apartments is owned by one single landlord. This means they have a large % of the vote in the HOA and basically rule the HOA.

Vilgan

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2018, 02:08:15 PM »
Have been a part of multiple HOAs. Often the board is made up of people that like to tell people what to do and the experience is awful. Even now, when we have a really good board, I really wish we didn't have an HOA. I love where we live, but having to deal with an HOA (even one with reasonable people!) is the worst thing about it by far.

Erica

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2018, 02:52:43 PM »
My husband is a Contractor vehemently opposed to HOA's.
He's been involved with plenty who tell him he cannot park in their driveway!
Just walk right up with some attitude
Angering him, and usually, the homeowner
He's over 50, why should he carry a heavy paint machine across the road?
Eventually he wins, being firm yet slightly telling them off
For being so rediculous
Yes Service Men need to park in the driveway
to have quick access to their tools and such

Yet this year, he's painted many houses in an area called *** Lakes.
Here's how great their HOA is
Or at best, they say "they do not bother me"
No one has any dramatic stories where they screwed anyone over
Husband did a 360 so it's his goal we live there, eventually, 1/2 the yr
I do not see us affording it, ever
Some fixer upper homes still there
But most turned into Million Dollar homes within the last decade or so
We've met many who are on the Board, all very nice.
Everyone can paint their home any color they want.
There are still somereally crappy houses inside it, yet no one picks on these folks.
Even that guy with purple color trim.
We stopped by to leave an unwanted estimate written on his business card
Guy was shocked we assumed he'd need to re-paint the trim within a certain amount of months
We knew he purchased it 3 months prior.
He boasted how beautiful the house colors are
And how nice the neighbors are, including HOA Board
We were embarassed, of course, and apologized.
But he understood and forgave us
ALL Of these folks seem to get along swimmingly.

Check on the state of the water.
Do they have their own water company set up?
If so, how recent were the last repairs?
What were they?
Any extra funding stored for future repairs?
Does the water come with the HOA fee?


« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 03:07:01 PM by Erica »

fuzzy math

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2018, 03:49:02 PM »
My mom was a member of an HOA group that got involved some very expensive repairs and a class action lawsuit against a builder for some building code violations for the group of condos she didn't even live in (not even the same construction) Suddenly her ~$300 a month jumped to $1000 a month.. No choice on her behalf to be a part of or not, and it provided no increase in value to her condo. That story alone was enough to make me never want to be a part of one. I also rented a place with a HOA once and would receive notices that I was in violation of "having my trash cans visible" and "leaving my garage door open" and "my lawn being too long" etc.



Exflyboy

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2018, 08:42:53 PM »
It amazes even me (I emigrated from a "Socialist" country) that Americans who are so fired up about individual rights and gun rights etc etc would willingly give up the right to be masters of their own home (and pay for the privilege) by willingly signing up to allow someone else to be able to tell them what to do on their own property!

America was built on the principle of F U... HOA's are the very antithesis of what this great country was founded upon!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJjKP8vYjpQ

If I lived under an HOA I would make it my life's work to purposely violate every one of their stupid rules on a regular basis!


beer-man

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2018, 08:49:15 PM »
It amazes even me (I emigrated from a "Socialist" country) that Americans who are so fired up about individual rights and gun rights etc etc would willingly give up the right to be masters of their own home (and pay for the privilege) by willingly signing up to allow someone else to be able to tell them what to do on their own property!

America was built on the principle of F U... HOA's are the very antithesis of what this great country was founded upon!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJjKP8vYjpQ

If I lived under an HOA I would make it my life's work to purposely violate every one of their stupid rules on a regular basis!
We as owners set up our own rules to keep order, keep homes looking presentable, and to pool resources in order to maintain a nice community. We had had a few like you that we have had to get rid of. Most of you fall in order eventually.
 


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Exflyboy

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2018, 10:40:45 PM »
It amazes even me (I emigrated from a "Socialist" country) that Americans who are so fired up about individual rights and gun rights etc etc would willingly give up the right to be masters of their own home (and pay for the privilege) by willingly signing up to allow someone else to be able to tell them what to do on their own property!

America was built on the principle of F U... HOA's are the very antithesis of what this great country was founded upon!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJjKP8vYjpQ

If I lived under an HOA I would make it my life's work to purposely violate every one of their stupid rules on a regular basis!
We as owners set up our own rules to keep order, keep homes looking presentable, and to pool resources in order to maintain a nice community. We had had a few like you that we have had to get rid of. Most of you fall in order eventually.
 


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Hah!.. My nearest neighbour is 150 yards away.. And I got a shotgun!..:)

Dicey

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2018, 12:21:02 AM »
You're going to get a lot of anti-HOA sentiment here, almost by default, so weight the responses accordingly. I have a lot of experience with HOA's. Some are good, some suck horribly. Go to a board meeting before you buy if humanly possible. Get the CC&R's, financial statements and the meeting minutes for at least the last 12 months. Read them, preferably before the board meeting. Ask your questions at the meeting. Talk to anyone and everyone you see in the neighborhood. Sometimes realtors know the dirt, especially if they farm the area.

If you choose to buy, plan on attending every board meeting until they invite you to join the board, then do it. It's a small investment of time for potentially great return. In one HOA, i was able to avert a planned Special Assessment, just by spreading out the roof replacement project over three years instead of all at once. Oh my, that was a proud mustachian moment!

If you plan on buying where there's an HOA, not reading the reports or CC&R's, not getting involved, and worst of all, not being willing to follow the rules, and then complaining about the HOA, don't bother. You definitely get back what you put into it.

MilesTeg

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2018, 10:59:37 AM »
I really hate HOAs, and HOA fees.  But are they really a bad expense?  Currently paying $85 which includes lawn mowing.  I'm not sure I could pay a lawn service that little.  Might $225 be worth it for all exterior maintenance?  For example, I may need a new roof here soon, probably for $10k.

New house also:

  • In a way better location, to the point of cutting local car trips by half or more
  • Bike for many of those trips
  • Very close to beach -- bike or even walk
  • Better appreciation potential, because of last 3 points, and surrounding new neighborhoods already priced 50-100% more
  • Very low flood risk, an issue around here

If we can say a $225 fee were put toward a mortgage instead, it would buy what, $50k more house?  If this house plus that $50k is still a good deal, is it still a good deal?  Is this a good way of looking at it?  Maybe the HOA fees are worth it.

There is one and only one reasonable and ethical purpose to an HOA, and that is to take care of truly common property. Shared structure (roofs/walls/etc.) in multi-unit buildings, green spaces, pools, etc. Anything else is a fundamental violation of property rights.

If this HOA is already full of busy bodies who think they have a reason not just to critique your lawn care, but are attempting to take over major financial responsibilities in your (stand alone I assume by your description) property, you need to steer clear. That is an HOA that is a ticking time bomb of crazy (more than the usual).

Give other people power to do "maintenance" on your exterior and you will get screwed, guaranteed. If you have a maintenance need, you will have to wait until the board decides to pay attention to it. Meanwhile your roof will be leaking and causing damage to your property (or you pay twice for the work and then get fined by the HOA). Or the board will decide everything should be some super expensive siding/roof/etc. because "it looks pretty!" and you'll get hit with a special assessment and have nothing to show for it, since it won't do a thing for your property value. There are innumerable ways you could get abused; this is why you don't give others this power.

HOAs which assert authority over stand-alone lots, universally, are full of people who only actually care about their own property/selves and will think absolutely nothing of screwing you over if they think it's in their interest.

redbird

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2018, 11:26:03 AM »
$225 per what? Month? No. I'd rather do it myself at that price.

My current house is unfortunately part of an HOA, but I only pay a little more than that per year. It's just a single payment every January. The HOA fees go towards the community pool, the streetlights (they are HOA paid, not city paid, in this neighborhood), and upkeep of community areas.

Just Joe

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2018, 12:06:02 PM »
Maybe you have significant exterior maintenance costs. We don't. Our kids mow the grass. I trim it. We work together to pick up sticks and rake leaves. Garbage is carried off when our cans are full - to a rural trash collection point. How often do you need a roof? 25 years?

My exterior costs this year has been a couple gallons of lawnmower fuel. A few trips to the dump ($5 in gas perhaps).

I wouldn't join an HOA for the cost alone but all the other reasons detailed here about bully HOA rules - no way. I'm not in the military anymore. Anyone that wants to tell me to close my garage door or that I can't wash my car or that someone can't park in my driveway - I'd have some choice words for them. We've rented houses like that near the beach. Fine because we were just visiting and I had no chores or hobbies to do.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2018, 12:19:02 PM »
We pay way less than $225/month for exterior maintenance on our $275,000 house, so no. If we didn't do our own exterior work, it might be a cheaper alternative, but we just wouldn't own a home if we weren't interested in doing normal home maintenance things. Roofs are expensive - I get it - but at $225/month, it would take less than four years to save up ten grand. A good roof will last 25+ years.

MilesTeg

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2018, 12:33:09 PM »
We pay way less than $225/month for exterior maintenance on our $275,000 house, so no. If we didn't do our own exterior work, it might be a cheaper alternative, but we just wouldn't own a home if we weren't interested in doing normal home maintenance things. Roofs are expensive - I get it - but at $225/month, it would take less than four years to save up ten grand. A good roof will last 25+ years.

Yeah, speaking of getting screwed, that's $27,000 a decade in HOA fees (ignoring the certainty of increases).

* a roof lasts about 25 years and about $10k to replace high side
* siding 40 years with decent care (regular painting/cleaning) and about $6k to replace high side
* paint 10 years and about $3k
* concrete surfaces 50+ years if cared for

How much, exactly, of this $225 a month is going to your repairs vs other expenses (or getting skimmed?). That's a critical question. If the majority of that fee is going to maintenance you're paying ~50 years of maintenance costs per decade (aka 5x the cost). That's assuming you pay a contractor.

Of course, the "with good care" above really does mean "with good care". This is another way you will get screwed. Some people will NOT take good care of their property, and you will be footing the bill for them.


SimpleCycle

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2018, 12:43:38 PM »
We pay way less than $225/month for exterior maintenance on our $275,000 house, so no. If we didn't do our own exterior work, it might be a cheaper alternative, but we just wouldn't own a home if we weren't interested in doing normal home maintenance things. Roofs are expensive - I get it - but at $225/month, it would take less than four years to save up ten grand. A good roof will last 25+ years.

Yeah, speaking of getting screwed, that's $27,000 a decade in HOA fees (ignoring the certainty of increases).

* a roof lasts about 25 years and about $10k to replace high side
* siding 40 years with decent care (regular painting/cleaning) and about $6k to replace high side
* paint 10 years and about $3k
* concrete surfaces 50+ years if cared for

How much, exactly, of this $225 a month is going to your repairs vs other expenses (or getting skimmed?). That's a critical question. If the majority of that fee is going to maintenance you're paying ~50 years of maintenance costs per decade (aka 5x the cost). That's assuming you pay a contractor.

Of course, the "with good care" above really does mean "with good care". This is another way you will get screwed. Some people will NOT take good care of their property, and you will be footing the bill for them.

I'm guessing that a) the HOA is non-profit and b) a good chunk is going to exterior services such as snow removal, lawn maintenance, etc rather than repairs.

I've lived in HOA communities for most of the last decade, and there are advantages and disadvantages.  I've had better experience with a large, professionally managed HOA than a small, self-managed condo association.

When we lived in a townhouse in a suburban area, we payed about $160/month and that paid for snow removal (both sidewalks and the private HOA roads and parking lots), yard upkeep, and all exterior maintenance except backyard decks and patios (those were optional and at your own cost).  We also had a community pool, a small community gym, and several playgrounds.

We now live in a four flat in Chicago, and we pay $168/month and that covers building upkeep, snow removal, and yard work.  I will tell you that $168/month doesn't come close to covering our actual long term expenses and special assessments are an expected part of doing any major project.  There is little will to maintain any more than bare minimum reserves, even though technically adequate reserves for maintenance are a requirement.  We have had to deal with several large projects lately because previous owners have deferred maintenance and upkeep.  You don't want to buy into that situation, so assessing the long term costs and how adequate the monthly assessment is should be a prime consideration.

MilesTeg

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2018, 01:20:46 PM »
We pay way less than $225/month for exterior maintenance on our $275,000 house, so no. If we didn't do our own exterior work, it might be a cheaper alternative, but we just wouldn't own a home if we weren't interested in doing normal home maintenance things. Roofs are expensive - I get it - but at $225/month, it would take less than four years to save up ten grand. A good roof will last 25+ years.

Yeah, speaking of getting screwed, that's $27,000 a decade in HOA fees (ignoring the certainty of increases).

* a roof lasts about 25 years and about $10k to replace high side
* siding 40 years with decent care (regular painting/cleaning) and about $6k to replace high side
* paint 10 years and about $3k
* concrete surfaces 50+ years if cared for

How much, exactly, of this $225 a month is going to your repairs vs other expenses (or getting skimmed?). That's a critical question. If the majority of that fee is going to maintenance you're paying ~50 years of maintenance costs per decade (aka 5x the cost). That's assuming you pay a contractor.

Of course, the "with good care" above really does mean "with good care". This is another way you will get screwed. Some people will NOT take good care of their property, and you will be footing the bill for them.

I'm guessing that a) the HOA is non-profit and b) a good chunk is going to exterior services such as snow removal, lawn maintenance, etc rather than repairs.

I've lived in HOA communities for most of the last decade, and there are advantages and disadvantages.  I've had better experience with a large, professionally managed HOA than a small, self-managed condo association.

When we lived in a townhouse in a suburban area, we payed about $160/month and that paid for snow removal (both sidewalks and the private HOA roads and parking lots), yard upkeep, and all exterior maintenance except backyard decks and patios (those were optional and at your own cost).  We also had a community pool, a small community gym, and several playgrounds.

We now live in a four flat in Chicago, and we pay $168/month and that covers building upkeep, snow removal, and yard work.  I will tell you that $168/month doesn't come close to covering our actual long term expenses and special assessments are an expected part of doing any major project.  There is little will to maintain any more than bare minimum reserves, even though technically adequate reserves for maintenance are a requirement.  We have had to deal with several large projects lately because previous owners have deferred maintenance and upkeep.  You don't want to buy into that situation, so assessing the long term costs and how adequate the monthly assessment is should be a prime consideration.

The last place we lived had an HOA with a pool, snow removal, trash service, huge green and natural spaces, playgrounds, a "farm" (barn, old farmhouse converted into HOA office, large community garden, etc.). Total cost of $750 a year (still way too much IMO).

Pooling resources to do things like lawn care, exterior maintenance, etc. is just asking to get abused financially in addition to bullied by crazy HOA busy bodies.

SimpleCycle

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2018, 01:46:59 PM »
We pay way less than $225/month for exterior maintenance on our $275,000 house, so no. If we didn't do our own exterior work, it might be a cheaper alternative, but we just wouldn't own a home if we weren't interested in doing normal home maintenance things. Roofs are expensive - I get it - but at $225/month, it would take less than four years to save up ten grand. A good roof will last 25+ years.

Yeah, speaking of getting screwed, that's $27,000 a decade in HOA fees (ignoring the certainty of increases).

* a roof lasts about 25 years and about $10k to replace high side
* siding 40 years with decent care (regular painting/cleaning) and about $6k to replace high side
* paint 10 years and about $3k
* concrete surfaces 50+ years if cared for

How much, exactly, of this $225 a month is going to your repairs vs other expenses (or getting skimmed?). That's a critical question. If the majority of that fee is going to maintenance you're paying ~50 years of maintenance costs per decade (aka 5x the cost). That's assuming you pay a contractor.

Of course, the "with good care" above really does mean "with good care". This is another way you will get screwed. Some people will NOT take good care of their property, and you will be footing the bill for them.

I'm guessing that a) the HOA is non-profit and b) a good chunk is going to exterior services such as snow removal, lawn maintenance, etc rather than repairs.

I've lived in HOA communities for most of the last decade, and there are advantages and disadvantages.  I've had better experience with a large, professionally managed HOA than a small, self-managed condo association.

When we lived in a townhouse in a suburban area, we payed about $160/month and that paid for snow removal (both sidewalks and the private HOA roads and parking lots), yard upkeep, and all exterior maintenance except backyard decks and patios (those were optional and at your own cost).  We also had a community pool, a small community gym, and several playgrounds.

We now live in a four flat in Chicago, and we pay $168/month and that covers building upkeep, snow removal, and yard work.  I will tell you that $168/month doesn't come close to covering our actual long term expenses and special assessments are an expected part of doing any major project.  There is little will to maintain any more than bare minimum reserves, even though technically adequate reserves for maintenance are a requirement.  We have had to deal with several large projects lately because previous owners have deferred maintenance and upkeep.  You don't want to buy into that situation, so assessing the long term costs and how adequate the monthly assessment is should be a prime consideration.

The last place we lived had an HOA with a pool, snow removal, trash service, huge green and natural spaces, playgrounds, a "farm" (barn, old farmhouse converted into HOA office, large community garden, etc.). Total cost of $750 a year (still way too much IMO).

Pooling resources to do things like lawn care, exterior maintenance, etc. is just asking to get abused financially in addition to bullied by crazy HOA busy bodies.

You can't really compare an HOA of freestanding homes to a condo HOA.  When walls/rooves/lawns are shared, you can't just "all pitch in" and expect it won't be a tragedy of the commons situation.  Having pooled maintenance is basically a necessity.

People seldom take into account that buying a condo can be a much more affordable housing situation, even factoring in HOA fees.  I understand the limitations, but for us it has worked out.

CNM

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2018, 02:09:12 PM »
So I'm not part of an HOA currently, but I have dealt with them at arm's length for parents, etc.
I am not opposed to HOAs if they are limited to things like snow removal, keeping up a community park, or similar, smaller-level jointly used things.  I would be very skeptical about HOAs who promise to do large-scale or expensive projects, particularly when it comes to an individual home, because it seems to be a recipe for strife.  What if you want a new roof and the HOA disagrees and puts a patch on instead?  And then the HOA goes ahead and re-roofs your neighbor's house? 

MilesTeg

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2018, 02:13:13 PM »
We pay way less than $225/month for exterior maintenance on our $275,000 house, so no. If we didn't do our own exterior work, it might be a cheaper alternative, but we just wouldn't own a home if we weren't interested in doing normal home maintenance things. Roofs are expensive - I get it - but at $225/month, it would take less than four years to save up ten grand. A good roof will last 25+ years.

Yeah, speaking of getting screwed, that's $27,000 a decade in HOA fees (ignoring the certainty of increases).

* a roof lasts about 25 years and about $10k to replace high side
* siding 40 years with decent care (regular painting/cleaning) and about $6k to replace high side
* paint 10 years and about $3k
* concrete surfaces 50+ years if cared for

How much, exactly, of this $225 a month is going to your repairs vs other expenses (or getting skimmed?). That's a critical question. If the majority of that fee is going to maintenance you're paying ~50 years of maintenance costs per decade (aka 5x the cost). That's assuming you pay a contractor.

Of course, the "with good care" above really does mean "with good care". This is another way you will get screwed. Some people will NOT take good care of their property, and you will be footing the bill for them.

I'm guessing that a) the HOA is non-profit and b) a good chunk is going to exterior services such as snow removal, lawn maintenance, etc rather than repairs.

I've lived in HOA communities for most of the last decade, and there are advantages and disadvantages.  I've had better experience with a large, professionally managed HOA than a small, self-managed condo association.

When we lived in a townhouse in a suburban area, we payed about $160/month and that paid for snow removal (both sidewalks and the private HOA roads and parking lots), yard upkeep, and all exterior maintenance except backyard decks and patios (those were optional and at your own cost).  We also had a community pool, a small community gym, and several playgrounds.

We now live in a four flat in Chicago, and we pay $168/month and that covers building upkeep, snow removal, and yard work.  I will tell you that $168/month doesn't come close to covering our actual long term expenses and special assessments are an expected part of doing any major project.  There is little will to maintain any more than bare minimum reserves, even though technically adequate reserves for maintenance are a requirement.  We have had to deal with several large projects lately because previous owners have deferred maintenance and upkeep.  You don't want to buy into that situation, so assessing the long term costs and how adequate the monthly assessment is should be a prime consideration.

The last place we lived had an HOA with a pool, snow removal, trash service, huge green and natural spaces, playgrounds, a "farm" (barn, old farmhouse converted into HOA office, large community garden, etc.). Total cost of $750 a year (still way too much IMO).

Pooling resources to do things like lawn care, exterior maintenance, etc. is just asking to get abused financially in addition to bullied by crazy HOA busy bodies.

You can't really compare an HOA of freestanding homes to a condo HOA.  When walls/rooves/lawns are shared, you can't just "all pitch in" and expect it won't be a tragedy of the commons situation.  Having pooled maintenance is basically a necessity.

People seldom take into account that buying a condo can be a much more affordable housing situation, even factoring in HOA fees.  I understand the limitations, but for us it has worked out.

To be clear, I am speaking about freestanding homes, which seems to be what the OP is talking about. If you buy into a shared building, an HOA makes sense and it can be quite expensive of course.

GetItRight

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2018, 04:17:41 PM »
You couldn't pay me to live under an HOA. Well, I guess technically if you paid me enough to FIRE in a year or two to someplace civilized and pleasant I could suck it up and do my time... But seriously, aside from paying me millions of dollars in a very short period of time there's no way I'd live in an HOA.

401Killer

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2018, 06:21:08 AM »
Yep as a board member of a 400 unit community we have a reserve study completed on a regular basis that breaks down how often everything needs to be done and how much we should plan for each item in the future and at what level our reserve's should be funded. This information is available to all residents in our community.

Our HOA fees are around $225 a month and that takes care of everything including snow removal, trash, sewer, 4 hot tubs, 2 fitness centers, a pool, 6 BBQ grills, clubhouse and all exterior maintenance.

My insurance is $309 dollars a year as the HOA covers everything except our personal items so we save about $800 a year in insurance and do not need to spend anything on exterior maintenance and get the use of all of the amenities.

$225/mo and 400 houses? That almost 11 million dollars a year!!! WTF? Garbage removal? sewer? Don't you guys have property taxes that pay for this?

And, you do not "save" $800 a year, you are being charged $2,700.

Nope, not for me!

the_fixer

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2018, 06:41:53 AM »
Yep as a board member of a 400 unit community we have a reserve study completed on a regular basis that breaks down how often everything needs to be done and how much we should plan for each item in the future and at what level our reserve's should be funded. This information is available to all residents in our community.

Our HOA fees are around $225 a month and that takes care of everything including snow removal, trash, sewer, 4 hot tubs, 2 fitness centers, a pool, 6 BBQ grills, clubhouse and all exterior maintenance.

My insurance is $309 dollars a year as the HOA covers everything except our personal items so we save about $800 a year in insurance and do not need to spend anything on exterior maintenance and get the use of all of the amenities.

$225/mo and 400 houses? That almost 11 million dollars a year!!! WTF? Garbage removal? sewer? Don't you guys have property taxes that pay for this?

And, you do not "save" $800 a year, you are being charged $2,700.

Nope, not for me!

Not familiar with the math you are using but I come up with a different number. 11 million that is some fancy new math.

And while SAVE might not have been the proper term I was trying to point out that if we were to live in a similar house to what we are in that did not cover the insurance I would be paying around $1,100 per year for insurance. Same goes for the garbage removal at my last house it was $55 dollars per month. We had to pay sewer at my last house but I do not remember the cost.

Maybe you do not have to pay for garbage removal or sewer where you live and I am happy for you but we do here so it is something I have to factor in.

As for the value of having snow removal, landscaping, exterior maintenance, two fitness centers, multiple hot tubs, fire pits, BBQ grills, dog park, pool, business center W fax / printer / internet and a club house where I can have a party or just go down and watch cable / shoot pool I guess that is up to each person to decide if it is worth the cost.



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 07:07:42 AM by the_fixer »

dignam

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2018, 07:20:49 AM »
What's more important is how transparent the HOA is about expenditures.  I'm paying about $175/mo for a ~$200k property (16 total buildings, 32 total units).  It covers insurance (exterior), lawn mowing, snow removal, repairs, garbage/recycling, common areas, and exterior repairs.  Went to the last HOA meeting and they fleshed out every expense to the penny, along with expected future repairs.  At first I hated the idea of a HOA fee, but I'm quite alright with it now.

Now if there was an HOA for your typical single family home area, count me out.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 07:22:31 AM by dignam »

I'm a red panda

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2018, 07:27:04 AM »
Yep as a board member of a 400 unit community we have a reserve study completed on a regular basis that breaks down how often everything needs to be done and how much we should plan for each item in the future and at what level our reserve's should be funded. This information is available to all residents in our community.

Our HOA fees are around $225 a month and that takes care of everything including snow removal, trash, sewer, 4 hot tubs, 2 fitness centers, a pool, 6 BBQ grills, clubhouse and all exterior maintenance.

My insurance is $309 dollars a year as the HOA covers everything except our personal items so we save about $800 a year in insurance and do not need to spend anything on exterior maintenance and get the use of all of the amenities.

$225/mo and 400 houses? That almost 11 million dollars a year!!!
Nope, not for me!

I think you pressed a button on your calculator wrong.
225 x 12 x 400 = $1,080,000. 

Cranky

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2018, 07:33:34 AM »
I wouldn't buy a freestanding house with an HOA, if I had a good alternative, because I want a clothesline in my backyard, and my crazy garden in the front.

Were I to grow tired of keeping up the yard, I'd buy a townhouse with an HOA to do all the maintenance.

sequoia

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2018, 09:43:31 AM »
I rather not have HOA, but that is probably because our HOA sucks. Personally I would rather mow my own yard, do any maintenance myself and save money.

AccidentalMiser

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Re: Would you pay $225 HOA for $160k house, w/ all ext. maintenance included?
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2018, 10:05:24 AM »
$225 per what? Month? No. I'd rather do it myself at that price.

My current house is unfortunately part of an HOA, but I only pay a little more than that per year. It's just a single payment every January. The HOA fees go towards the community pool, the streetlights (they are HOA paid, not city paid, in this neighborhood), and upkeep of community areas.

When I saw the title of this thread, that’s what I thought, too.  225 per year sounds great!  Then I realized you are talking per month!!

No freaking way.  Time to move!!

At the last HOA home we owned, the fee was $550/year and included the stuff @redbird listed.