Would you go car-free if on-track to FIRE & had adequate public transit options?

[Fields of Gold]

Would you go car-free if you can easily afford all car costs (including strong insurance, umbrella liability coverage) and are financially on-track toward retirement (e.g. FIRE)?  Imagine you have adequate public bus transit options (USD $1.00 per ride) running until midnight, Uber/Lyft, and car share/car-rental available. 

The amount you save without a car becomes extra savings (after subtracting alternative travel costs: transit/ride share etc).  Could FIRE sooner.

A trade off with taking public transit:  have to leave out the front door about 30 minutes earlier to catch public transit (make sure you're not late to work), and then get home about 15-20 minutes later each day compared with having a car.  Trading an hour per work day now for freedom later.  Find a productive use of time during the extra commute time.

Thoughts?

[kanga1622]

In your scenario, no. Losing almost an hour a day with my kids would not work for me.

We live in a decent sized town in the Midwest. As a family of four we can easily get by with 1 car but 0 cars is not an option for us.

[Zikoris]

I don't like cars, public transit, or sacrifices, so I would figure out a way to get everything I wanted, with none of the stuff I didn't want (like I did in my own life). It would involve either a new home or a new job to facilitate walking to work, and definitely ditching the car.

I've never actually had a car (or driver's license), and have not had any problems arise.

[Photograph 51]

Yes, absolutely.  I could sleep on public transportation.  I would gladly wake up at 3:00 am instead of 3:30 am, knowing that I could fall back to sleep on the ride.  As it is, public transportation to my main job location would involve me having to leave at 7:00 pm the previous evening and would involve a 4 mile bike ride, a commuter train, an Amtrak train, 1.5 miles of walking, and a city bus.  The whole process would take 5 hours and I would get to my locked work site at midnight and have to wait out in the cold until 4:30 am when I could go in.  Of my other 3 work sites, one would involve 2 buses and one mile of walking and I might get in trouble because I would have to let class out early to catch the last bu.  Another would involve a 4 mile bike ride, a bus, and a commuter train (total of 3 hours instead of 35 minutes.)  My other work site is way out in the country, 15 miles from public transportation, so that one doesn't work at all.  I would welcome public transportation, certainly.

[Tass]

Strongly consider. My partner and I bike to work most days but haven't gotten rid of our shared car, though we've discussed it.

• We don't have supplies to bike in the rain. This is a wimpy reason.
• I volunteer twice a week in areas with no transit available or requiring 1.5 hour one-way bus trips.
• I can't bike to orchestra with my instrument; I would have to either quit or switch to the bus, which would push my bedtime later once a week.
• The car is convenient to have in emergencies.
• Hypothetically the car is convenient for our social lives, but between uber/lyft and roommates with a car, I doubt this would matter much.

To be honest, having written this out, those all look like somewhat lame excuses. I think it's the combination of all of them that lets me feel that solving them is too complicated. Or maybe it's that we've gotten to this point gradually and I'm still processing the situation!

You've described your transition as fairly straightforward. Why don't you swear off the car for a month - really swear off it; use uber if you have to - and see how you feel at the end of it? Supposedly public transit makes people happier than solo car-commuting does; maybe you'll find hidden benefits.

[Fru-Gal]

I'd like to but husband is using car to commute, currently. Though he might end up biking to work if his new gig turns permanent. He has done that before. I biked yesterday and today to appointments and you really do get used to it. These particular 45-minute hilly rides used to seem so epic. Got one down to 35 and today's down to 25.

I also use ZipCar once every few months. And a lot of public transport and trains and ferries.

I think I'd like a cargo bike so I could take my paddle board to the beach or my dogs to the park. But given my high-crime area, not sure it's wise to drop 4k on something so easily stolen.

[monstermonster]

I am car-free, and always have been, and it takes me the exact same amount of time to bike as it does to take transit, but I get exercise during my commute and there's negligible marginal cost.

If I couldn't bike (as I can't when I have to go to the suburbs over a big hill early in the morning or when my wrist doesn't support it), I find the trade offs of taking public transit over the cost of getting a car to be worth it. I listen to a lot of podcasts in foreign languages, read, and do work on my commute.

[sui generis]

I like the idea of it (because while I don't have it as bad as it could be, parking is still sort of a pain for our one car where we live). 

But, we keep a car for lots of reasons; some of which your hypothetical would obviate, but also because we like to go places where there never will be public transit. Like hiking trails.  And renting a car one day at a time as frequently as we want to do those things would typically be more expensive than what we pay in insurance and car maintenance/repairs for owning a paid-off car outright.  So it wouldn't be a money saver unless we stopped doing certain things we loved that require use of a car at all.

[Tass]

And renting a car one day at a time as frequently as we want to do those things would typically be more expensive than what we pay in insurance and car maintenance/repairs for owning a paid-off car outright.  So it wouldn't be a money saver unless we stopped doing certain things we loved that require use of a car at all.

How do rideshare services compare against one-day car rentals? That's what I would primarily plan to fall back on.

[Fields of Gold]

Good considerations raised in the replies.

Yes, a vehicle is one way to be free: mobility pretty much on-demand.

Moving nearby work so a person can walk or bike there could be optimal.

Using transit involves dealing with crowd issues, like other people's odors, cold/flu virus, drink spills, passengers' mental disorders, and others' loudness to list a few.  Can get away from them (standing up and holding onto a pole).  Lots of times transit is running a little late, so have to plan to arrive early so that you make it on-time on those off-days.  Once in while, public transit has mechanical issues and everyone has to de-board and get on the next one that's coming on the same route in 20 minutes.

[Bloop Bloop]

I keep a car just as a toy. I walk to work and have generally good public transport options. It's just nice to have a toy that I can take out to the twisty roads and rev the nuts off from time to time. The car is also a business deduction. But I am the first to admit that keeping such a car (especially when it gets about 20L/100km in spirited driving) is not Mustachian at all.

[sui generis]

And renting a car one day at a time as frequently as we want to do those things would typically be more expensive than what we pay in insurance and car maintenance/repairs for owning a paid-off car outright.  So it wouldn't be a money saver unless we stopped doing certain things we loved that require use of a car at all.

How do rideshare services compare against one-day car rentals? That's what I would primarily plan to fall back on.

Ride share services like Uber and Lyft? They often won't go out to trail heads because it's not worth it for them if they have to drive all the way the other direction with no paying customer. I tried this on a backpacking trip once and it was a failure.

Car shares, like car2go, city car share, Zipcar, etc are really only good for short trips. Since they are $8-15 per hour, it's a waste of money to have them sitting around in a parking lot or at a trail head for hours and could easily end up costing more than a traditional car rental for a full 24 hours (though less paperwork and distributed locations for pick up and drop off always a plus)

[Missy B]

I'm carless, and set my work and home location up to facilitate that. Having said that, if I were in the OP's position I wouldn't give up the car, because my time is too valuable. Also, my bf has a car and I honestly don't see us getting rid of it even if we use it only for big shop trips and trips to Squamish, Whistler, the Sunshine Coast and Vancouver Island.
It's a catch-22 with cars. Once you have one, they shape your life. You buy a home where you never would if you had no car, and that's the biggest piece.

[John Galt incarnate!]

Would you go car-free if you can easily afford all car costs (including strong insurance, umbrella liability coverage) and are financially on-track toward retirement (e.g. FIRE)?  Imagine you have adequate public bus transit options (USD $1.00 per ride) running until midnight, Uber/Lyft, and car share/car-rental available. 

The amount you save without a car becomes extra savings (after subtracting alternative travel costs: transit/ride share etc).  Could FIRE sooner.

A trade off with taking public transit:  have to leave out the front door about 30 minutes earlier to catch public transit (make sure you're not late to work), and then get home about 15-20 minutes later each day compared with having a car.  Trading an hour per work day now for freedom later.  Find a productive use of time during the extra commute time.

Thoughts?

No matter where I lived, and no matter how extensive and convenient the public transit system, I'd still have my own vehicle so that I could immediately drive to my chosen destination whenever I wanted to.

In some situations such as ^  immediacy of choice  maximizes my happiness and contentment.

[MrThatsDifferent]

I’ve been car free for almost 25 years and looking at probably 5-15 more years at least before I’d even consider it. So much cheaper.

[Dogastrophe]

I've kicked around different scenarios for going car free but at this point relying on public transit is not my best option.

We both work in the same general area of city.  In morning, barring any accidents along our route, I am dropping DW off at office 10 mins after leaving house and I arrive at work 5 mins later.  Coming home generally takes 10 to 20 mins longer, depending on bridge traffic.  To take transit, in mornings we would be on bus for ~35 & 40 mins, she would have a 10 min walk to office, I would have a 20 min walk.  Both area have lot of traffic and no sidewalks.  Trip home adds 20 mins of bus. 

I would consider cycling to work but no way in hell is DW going to do the same.

[24andfrugal]

As someone who commutes 90 miles RT in a car, I would be happy as a clam to take public transport (especially a train, I love trains) to and from work and ideally to basic errands like grocery stores. When I was interviewing for a different job than than the one I was offered/took, I toured an apartment where I could walk to the train station, thus eliminating my need to do 80-90% of the driving I do. It was a glimpse into a glorious life, even though it would be wicked cold in the winter (and with Corona, I'm glad I'm not reliant on public transport at the moment).

All that said - I would still keep the car, for a few reasons. First is that it just doesn't go everywhere...I live in the suburbs, my parents live in the suburbs, so a decent portion of my free time is in the suburbs, far enough away from where buses could practically go so as to make it impossible. Second, however reliable public transport is, you've still got to plan your trip around when it comes and goes. I dashed off to the beach the other night to watch the full moonrise - can't do that on your own schedule if you don't have a car.

And third, and probably most important, is that FH and I do a lot of road trips, camping trips, etc. The point is to get *away* from civilization ;)

[roomtempmayo]

Would you go car-free if you can easily afford all car costs (including strong insurance, umbrella liability coverage) and are financially on-track toward retirement (e.g. FIRE)?  Imagine you have adequate public bus transit options (USD $1.00 per ride) running until midnight, Uber/Lyft, and car share/car-rental available. 

The amount you save without a car becomes extra savings (after subtracting alternative travel costs: transit/ride share etc).  Could FIRE sooner.

A trade off with taking public transit:  have to leave out the front door about 30 minutes earlier to catch public transit (make sure you're not late to work), and then get home about 15-20 minutes later each day compared with having a car.  Trading an hour per work day now for freedom later.  Find a productive use of time during the extra commute time.

Thoughts?

I've tried car free in a city of a couple million (this was before Uber), and it was inconvenient.  Ride share would help, but it would still be a pain for moving large objects or going significantly out of town.

Right now we're down to one car, and it's great.  An old grocery getter costs little to keep around, and it's nice to have the option of a car on demand.

What I'd really, really like to see is a shift to short term rentals on demand, the sort of situation where they're just parked all over and you check one out with an app, or someone drops one off for your on demand.  Not just econoboxes either, pickups and cargo vans would be awesome.  If this arrangement existed, we'd happily go car free again.

[GuitarStv]

I was car free for the first ten years I was working.  Never used public transit though, I carpooled and biked.  There are some annoyances, but they're pretty easily overcome.  Not sure I could do it now, simply because our kid seems to require a car for a lot of things.

[PDXTabs]

A trade off with taking public transit:  have to leave out the front door about 30 minutes earlier to catch public transit (make sure you're not late to work), and then get home about 15-20 minutes later each day compared with having a car.  Trading an hour per work day now for freedom later.  Find a productive use of time during the extra commute time.

So 50 minutes a day added for how much cost savings? How much do you hate (or love) driving? Many people in parts of the world where cars are expensive do this. I used to have a 130 minute round trip commute that I loved. 70 minutes on the bicycle and 60 minutes on the bus listening to audio books. I felt happy and alive every night when I got home to the family, much better than driving.

[Tass]

I've tried car free in a city of a couple million (this was before Uber), and it was inconvenient.  Ride share would help, but it would still be a pain for moving large objects or going significantly out of town.

Having a car does not solve the large-objects problem for me. I have a little two-door; even transporting people in it is inconvenient. The number of free couches I've missed out on for being unable to pick them up...

[Legsofsteel]

Haven't owned a car in over 10 years! Live in the city, so cycle, walk, and use public transport.

Don't miss driving at all.

[sui generis]

What I'd really, really like to see is a shift to short term rentals on demand, the sort of situation where they're just parked all over and you check one out with an app, or someone drops one off for your on demand.  Not just econoboxes either, pickups and cargo vans would be awesome.  If this arrangement existed, we'd happily go car free again.

Yeah, this exists in a lot of big cities, at least in the US.  We have at least 4 companies that I can think of that do this.  One (Getaround) relies on just anyone's car that they don't use a lot - they can list it with the app and anyone can borrow it for a block of time.  So it's also a side gig for some people to rent out their little-used car, and it can be any type (pick up, van, sports car, etc).  GIG ("Get In & Go") is all one type of car (like a sporty hatchback) that have roofracks that look like you can put skis or bikes on, or a Yakima type storage thing maybe?  Zipcar is the old school grandaddy, they've been around for like a decade now.  A few cars of various types available in distributed locations so it's hopefully easy to get to them.  There's also Car2Go (not in my city, but where I used to live) where you can look on the app for where one is sitting and available, you use it and then leave it anywhere (presumably within certain boundaries, not like in another country), and you don't have to return it to a prescribed "home parking spot".  We also have this for electric scooters (e.g Lime or Lyft) and mopeds (e.g. Ravel).  They all use an app where you sign up and qualify in advance, add your credit card and then usually you can reserve in advance or look at any given moment for what's available for how many hours within a certain radius of you.

It all sounds great, but I haven't used one in years.  Like I said upthread, the cost really adds up quickly when the cheapest I've seen is like $8/hour, but the bigger ones and fancier ones are well into the teens or even $20+/hr.  So they could be good for doing a big shopping trip or picking up stuff at Home Depot or something, but most things I do, I just need a car to get somewhere, then I spend several hours just having the car sit and wait for me while the tab would be running up until I use it to transport me back where I can return it (both physically and via the app).

[roomtempmayo]

What I'd really, really like to see is a shift to short term rentals on demand, the sort of situation where they're just parked all over and you check one out with an app, or someone drops one off for your on demand.  Not just econoboxes either, pickups and cargo vans would be awesome.  If this arrangement existed, we'd happily go car free again.

Yeah, this exists in a lot of big cities, at least in the US.  We have at least 4 companies that I can think of that do this.  One (Getaround) relies on just anyone's car that they don't use a lot - they can list it with the app and anyone can borrow it for a block of time.  So it's also a side gig for some people to rent out their little-used car, and it can be any type (pick up, van, sports car, etc).  GIG ("Get In & Go") is all one type of car (like a sporty hatchback) that have roofracks that look like you can put skis or bikes on, or a Yakima type storage thing maybe?  Zipcar is the old school grandaddy, they've been around for like a decade now.  A few cars of various types available in distributed locations so it's hopefully easy to get to them.  There's also Car2Go (not in my city, but where I used to live) where you can look on the app for where one is sitting and available, you use it and then leave it anywhere (presumably within certain boundaries, not like in another country), and you don't have to return it to a prescribed "home parking spot".  We also have this for electric scooters (e.g Lime or Lyft) and mopeds (e.g. Ravel).  They all use an app where you sign up and qualify in advance, add your credit card and then usually you can reserve in advance or look at any given moment for what's available for how many hours within a certain radius of you.

It all sounds great, but I haven't used one in years.  Like I said upthread, the cost really adds up quickly when the cheapest I've seen is like $8/hour, but the bigger ones and fancier ones are well into the teens or even $20+/hr.  So they could be good for doing a big shopping trip or picking up stuff at Home Depot or something, but most things I do, I just need a car to get somewhere, then I spend several hours just having the car sit and wait for me while the tab would be running up until I use it to transport me back where I can return it (both physically and via the app).

I hadn't heard of GetAround.  I'll check them out.  I have to guess there are lots of restrictions on users and uses to get owners to participate.

The problem with Zipcar and similar services around here is that all they have is Priuses, and their rates are fairly high.

I just rented a new Ram 1500 from Hertz for $33/day with unlimited mileage, but I need to go to the airport to get it.  It works for special occasions, and it's super affordable.  If I could have the same sort of vehicle delivered quickly or within an easy walk of my house for up to a 25% premium, I think I'd be done owning a personal vehicle.  I guess what I'd really like to have is an on-demand Hertz.

[Fru-Gal]

In my town Zipcar has trucks and cargo vans, have rented both in a pinch and it was fabulous.

[roomtempmayo]

Do you have a local "neighborhood hertz" near by? They are usually cheaper than airports and will pick you up for free. If they don't have the type of vehicle you want in their fleet they will get it for you at the airport if one is available. I'm car-free and use my local Hertz to rent (they always seem to have trucks and cargo vans available too) and just walk the 4 or 5 miles there. I also have a non-car owners liability insurance policy (around $300/year if bundled and high limits) since I rent fairly long term for a month at a time. CC covers collision damage waver up to 31 days free.

I wish we did, but we don't.  It's about a mile walk to the train, then another half hour train ride to one of the two Hertz rental places.  As far as I know, they won't pick people up.  Enterprise will, but I have some vague recollection that there's a reason I don't use them.  I think it's that their downtown location (closest to me) doesn't have pickups, and/or there might be a mileage cap.

Car rental seems to be a business that struggles with the last mile problem, at least in my area.  They're a fantastic deal from central locations.  They're just inconvenient for short notice use. 

My only real reason to own a car is convenience.  I think my convenience threshold is probably somewhere around walking three blocks or less to reliably pick up a car on the spur of the moment (i.e. no reservation) or have a rental at my house within a half hour of requesting it.  I realize that's a ton to ask, which is why I still own a car.

[roomtempmayo]

Has anyone here used Kyte?  https://drivekyte.com

I think this is conceptually what I'm hoping spreads, but I'm worried the gig labor model would make it unreliable.

[Metalcat]

For me, it would depend on the work I do and what the public transportation was like.

If it's cramped, standing room only, frustrating public transportation that adds nearly an hour of irritation to my day? N'ah, I'll probably stick with my affordable car.

However, if it's pleasant, quiet public transportation where I can expect to have a seat and get work related reading/emails done before I even arrive, then I would probably consider it, especially if it allows me to bypass stop-and-go traffic.

I used to take a commuter train to school, and I loved it because I could study. I had a car, but parking at the university was insane, and traffic was awful in the morning, so I much prefered the train.

My current job, however, has absolutely no work that can be done off site, so the added time would not be usable time, which would be unappealing.

[Freedomin5]

Yes, and on days when I don't want to take public transit, I could always take Uber.

[Fishindude]

NO
Car free is just not a practical option living rural.
Also - I really enjoy automobile traveling / vacations much more so than airline travel, buses, trains, cruises, etc.

[Fru-Gal]

Agree that car-free is tough if you're rural. But what about the Amish? 😜

[Fishindude]

Agree that car-free is tough if you're rural. But what about the Amish? 😜

Or straight up Cave Man?

[chemistk]

No.

If we didn't have kids, and lived in an area where it was safe enough to walk/bike where we needed to go, perhaps.

But 3 kids an accompanying equipment means we're in the car game for the long haul. Plus we will always have a set of parents not living in our current state, and driving is far far far preferable to flying.

[Photograph 51]

Agree that car-free is tough if you're rural. But what about the Amish? 😜

The Amish hire local drivers extensively- driving them can be a nice way to make money in retirement if you have a van.  Many of them are frequent Uber users.  They are getting around by car as much as anyone else, just not driving them.

[PDXTabs]

Agree that car-free is tough if you're rural. But what about the Amish? 😜

The Amish hire local drivers extensively- driving them can be a nice way to make money in retirement if you have a van.  Many of them are frequent Uber users.  They are getting around by car as much as anyone else, just not driving them.

But that's also "car free" by most definitions. You don't own a car, you don't insure a car, and you can always get home from the bar without a DUII.

[sui generis]

Agree that car-free is tough if you're rural. But what about the Amish? 😜

The Amish hire local drivers extensively- driving them can be a nice way to make money in retirement if you have a van.  Many of them are frequent Uber users.  They are getting around by car as much as anyone else, just not driving them.

Wut.  So Amish people use smartphones now?

[Photograph 51]

Agree that car-free is tough if you're rural. But what about the Amish? 😜

The Amish hire local drivers extensively- driving them can be a nice way to make money in retirement if you have a van.  Many of them are frequent Uber users.  They are getting around by car as much as anyone else, just not driving them.

Wut.  So Amish people use smartphones now?

I've seen so many Amish people using smart phones.  My daughter was telling me that the Amish people she works with routinely use their smart phones to arrange their Ubers to get rides home.

[monstermonster]

Wut.  So Amish people use smartphones now?

The way amish rules work is that each community gets together and decides in meeting if they think a new technology helps with their goals of living righteously and in community. The community (all adult members) will decide. So different Amish communities will have different rules on technology. Some have phones, but only a shared community phone. Some don't have phones. Some have smartphones, but only for calling rides. It really depends on the community's call.

[monstermonster]

You don't own a car, you don't insure a car, and you can always get home from the bar without a DUII.

The amish don't insure cars even when they have them - on rumspringa, for example. They usually don't allow insurance. Sometimes kids on rumspringas get in car accidents and then their parents pay off their debt (since the kids don't have insurance) and that's why they join the church and end their rumspringa. That's also one reason many amish go get medical treatment outside the US for major illnesses, because they don't have health insurance and the US charges way too much for health insurance. Most go to Mexico by train.

[Retireatee1]

I have an anti-Mustachian sports car and can't abide any retirement plan where I'm not zipping around in it.

[jafr1284]

Strongly consider. My partner and I bike to work most days but haven't gotten rid of our shared car, though we've discussed it.

• We don't have supplies to bike in the rain. This is a wimpy reason.
• I volunteer twice a week in areas with no transit available or requiring 1.5 hour one-way bus trips.
• I can't bike to orchestra with my instrument; I would have to either quit or switch to the bus, which would push my bedtime later once a week.
• The car is convenient to have in emergencies.
• Hypothetically the car is convenient for our social lives, but between uber/lyft and roommates with a car, I doubt this would matter much.

To be honest, having written this out, those all look like somewhat lame excuses. I think it's the combination of all of them that lets me feel that solving them is too complicated. Or maybe it's that we've gotten to this point gradually and I'm still processing the situation!

You've described your transition as fairly straightforward. Why don't you swear off the car for a month - really swear off it; use uber if you have to - and see how you feel at the end of it? Supposedly public transit makes people happier than solo car-commuting does; maybe you'll find hidden benefits.

Hey! Musician here. What instrument do you play? There are all sorts of different sized trailers you could get to put your insturemnt on. Mine is small so I can wear it as a backpack.

[Tass]

@jafr1284 I play viola! It's probably not impossible to backpack it, but I'm not certain how safe/maneuverable it would be. I would 100% need a new case because my current one is 12 years old and all the zippers are broken. The bus route is pretty straightforward, though.

[jafr1284]

@jafr1284 I play viola! It's probably not impossible to backpack it, but I'm not certain how safe/maneuverable it would be. I would 100% need a new case because my current one is 12 years old and all the zippers are broken. The bus route is pretty straightforward, though.

I know the name cases are apparently pretty nice. You should be able to find a good case with backpack straps. I have been biking with my instrument for 10 years and never had any damage. Just be careful

[Schaefer Light]

No.  Because hauling a golf bag on public transit would be a pain in the ass.

[Bloop Bloop]

I have an anti-Mustachian sports car and can't abide any retirement plan where I'm not zipping around in it.

Good thing we got in while the going was still good. With emissions regulations and all that, sports cars will soon be a thing of the past. Electric cars at this stage don't have the tech to be "sporty" (too heavy).

[Tass]

@jafr1284 I play viola! It's probably not impossible to backpack it, but I'm not certain how safe/maneuverable it would be. I would 100% need a new case because my current one is 12 years old and all the zippers are broken. The bus route is pretty straightforward, though.

I know the name cases are apparently pretty nice. You should be able to find a good case with backpack straps. I have been biking with my instrument for 10 years and never had any damage. Just be careful

Even if so, I'd be biking home past 10pm, which isn't great since it's dark. I'd rather wait a little longer for the bus - that trip is only about 20 minutes.

What do you play?

[jafr1284]

@jafr1284 I play viola! It's probably not impossible to backpack it, but I'm not certain how safe/maneuverable it would be. I would 100% need a new case because my current one is 12 years old and all the zippers are broken. The bus route is pretty straightforward, though.

I know the name cases are apparently pretty nice. You should be able to find a good case with backpack straps. I have been biking with my instrument for 10 years and never had any damage. Just be careful

Even if so, I'd be biking home past 10pm, which isn't great since it's dark. I'd rather wait a little longer for the bus - that trip is only about 20 minutes.

What do you play?

I play horn. I bike after dark. I do carry insurance on m horn but that's because I would like to think that I'm riskier than the average person (biking with it, live in a semi dangerous 3rd world country where armed robberies are very common). My friend was stopped at gunpoint for airpods I can only imagine what would happen to me if they knew the value of what was in my backpack.