Would You FIRE If the Standard Week Was Less Than 40hrs?

[Inkedup]

Yesterday, when I was filling up my evening with all the tasks (laundry, lunch prep, etc.) in preparation for yet another work week, it occurred to me that I don't actually mind working a job in the traditional sense; my issue is the amount of time it takes out of my life. I've been skimming YMOYL, which prompted me to consider not only how much money it costs to work, but also how much time I spend of the few hours of "free time" to get ready for work on the following day. If the standard work week were shorter and we actually HAD a real work-life balance (especially here in the US), I would probably be more casual about FIRE.

Do any of you feel the same way? If the standard work week were less than 40hrs long, would you still be trying to FIRE?     

[2Birds1Stone]

I would still FIRE. Even at 20-30 hours a week, having to be at a job 4-5 days a week can be a drag on slow travel plans, weeklong adventures, etc.

I would obviously prefer a 20-30 hour work week over a 40+ one, but I would still plan to FIRE asap.

[Jesstache]

I work three 8 hour days a week, my husband works full time.  We could get to FIRE much more quickly if I worked full time but it's a trade-off I gladly chose and am grateful to be able to have this working arrangement.  It gives me more time with my kids while they're little and time to do all of our errands/chores during the week so nights and weekends are mostly free to do whatever we want as a family.  After working 60+ hour weeks for the entire first 7 or so years of my career, it feels like a vacation and I've been doing this schedule for about 2 years.  I did take about 2 years off to be a SAHM in between and I did not enjoy that as much as my current part time work schedule (hey! mom needs a break and the office is soooo nice and quiet).

[FatCat]

If the work week was less than 40 hours and if I had way more vacation weeks I wouldn't care that much about FIRE. I feel like I work all day, and then I need to work on various chores when I'm home. There isn't that much time left for personal enjoyable leisure. That being said I would still likely be aiming for FI just because I don't like feeling like I'm forced to put up with things at my work. There is a different mindset in an employee that feels like they have to have a job and someone who feels like they could leave whenever they want. My displeasure with my current job went down considerably when I realized that I could quit at any time and have several years living expenses covered.

I also really enjoy traveling. My current job has 2 weeks of vacation time that you can't take together. I really like to go abroad and with only one week it feels way too rushed.

A lot of my coworkers don't take all their vacation days. They don't even take them just for a day off to stay home. A few people have been around long enough to earn 4 weeks of vacation time and they only ever take one week. We were required to take one full week off per year as a company policy. A couple years ago they got rid of the one week off requirement rule. And at least two of my coworkers said they were happy because they always hated that one week they had to sit home and do nothing and thought it was ridiculous. Some people also leave some vacation days unclaimed because they think it makes them look better.

[mr_orange]

My W2 job right now is extremely flexible with a lot of our work being done in China.  I manage those teams along with small teams in Austin.  Today I will probably work a few hours for my day job.  Other days are more hectic, especially around new operating system releases. 

I still want to FIRE, but my motivation to do so is much lower than it would be if I was working 50-hour weeks.  I have the capacity to interview for management jobs for my current company and elsewhere, but I struggle to find the motivation to do so.  In my current arrangement I make six figures annually and work 20 or fewer hours per week on many weeks. 

Things can always change so FIRE is still a goal, but it isn't my end-all-be-all with my current arrangement.  The flexibility my job provides allows me to run businesses during the day as well, which is getting me to FIRE quicker while maintaining my desired standard of living. 

[soccerluvof4]

To answer your question i would of had no problem working 25 hours a week. I think everyones case is different but if i worked from 6am to 11 am 5 days a week and got health insurance and stuff...be great. Alot of different factors would go into it. Flexibility etc.. and there are alot of jobs like that if you look hard enough. 

[Money Mouse]

Well I work from home full time, so I spend about zero time "prepping" to go to work or a commute. And even though I put in a 37.5 hour work week, it doesn't really *feel* like it, because I can get stuff done around the house on my lunch hour, or in between tasks on a slow day "at work". I only go into the office about 6 times a year, and travel every other year for about a week at a stretch, so I only need a minimal work wardrobe. I also get 5 weeks paid vacation every year, and have enough sick time banked that I could take months off fully paid if a medical situation came up for me or my family.  Honestly this feels more like a part time job than a full time gig.

So between that, actually liking my job, and great pay/benefits (the medical in particular is outstanding!), I have no plans to retire super early. We are trying to get to the point that DH can retire in about 7 years though (main reason I'm here), but that would require being able to live on just my income so we need to pay off the house to make that happen. I plan to retire at either 55 or 59, depending on if I want/need to work to pay for DD to go to college, and that's plenty "early" for me!

[Gone Fishing]

I could see myself being quite happy with a professional wage, 20-30 hours a week, and 6-8 weeks of vacation.  Not many of those around though.  I might spend some time in FIRE looking around though.

[bacchi]

Yeah, while 30/week is awesome -- and I do that now -- it's the vacation time that's the killer. If I fly across an ocean, I want 6 weeks, not 2. Spontaneously deciding to go backpacking is a luxury that only RE (or college students) can afford.

[PurpleYogurt]

I like the idea of working 3 eight hours days a week. I currently work 2 eight hour days and love the free time but need more money. Plus I kind of feel guilty working so little, so much so that I've accepted a full time job which starts in a few months. I'm filling in today for the woman I'm replacing at the new job and it's painfully slow here. Hopefully there will be more work as time goes on.

Money Mouse, your job sounds just about perfect. What line of work are you in? I'm still looking for my next great job and this may not be it!

[ChaseJuggler]

Our game plan is to work 6 more years to get half way to FIRE, then work part time for 14 years to finish the job.

Working 20 hours or less per week hardly feels like work at all compared to the current 45 or so.

[okits]

Depends on if the job is enjoyable (or awful) and what's going on in the rest of my life. DH still working FT and little kids in primary school?  Probably not any slow travel in the cards then, so 3 x 8 hrs a week would be a nice set up.  I think there would be less urgency to FIRE as then more than half my days wouldn't belong to a job.

[Money Mouse]

I like the idea of working 3 eight hours days a week. I currently work 2 eight hour days and love the free time but need more money. Plus I kind of feel guilty working so little, so much so that I've accepted a full time job which starts in a few months. I'm filling in today for the woman I'm replacing at the new job and it's painfully show here. Hopefully there will be more work as time goes on.

Money Mouse, your job sounds just about perfect. What line of work are you in? I'm still looking for my next great job and this may not be it!

I'm afraid my gig is nearly impossible to replicate (I totally lucked into this situation, it was not planned in the slightest). I'm a corporate travel agent, but rather than work for a travel agency the organization I work for keeps it's own travel department in house so I'm an employee of the organization (and that is very rare these days, most companies outsource to a corporate travel agency like Amex or just let their staff book their own travel arrangements). As a result, I get all the benefits of all the other employees of this organization, which are stellar. A typical travel agent doesn't earn nearly what I do in pay or benefits, though work-at-home is becoming pretty standard for our industry. For a host of reasons, I'm not going to give the name of my employer, sorry! Privacy being one but there are some other issues as well.

[mathlete]

If the work week was less than 40 hours and if I had way more vacation weeks I wouldn't care that much about FIRE.

Pretty much agree with this. America is great and all but the amount of time we're expected to spend working is silly. (2 weeks of paid vacation if you're lucky!? What?)

Knock it down to 4 days a week and 5 weeks a year of paid vacation and I would stop saving such a large percentage of my salary and start living it up a bit.

[PurpleYogurt]

I understand not giving the name of your company Money Mouse. Sounds like a great gig!

[AZDude]

If the work week was 24 hours or less, I would be fine with it to a point. I am hoping to transition to part time long before I retire completely. Too much free time might be problematic, just as too much work.

[smalllife]

I would definitely be less urgent about the desire. 2-3 days a week with flexible scheduling and 4-5 weeks vacation (hell, even a company that would let me take unpaid vacation to supplement) would probably do it. I'd still want to be FI asap just in case that sweet deal went south though ...

At the end of the day I want to be more self sufficient, relaxed, and more intertwined with the community - the common thread in all of those being time. "Work-life balance" is not 40 hours.

[jrhampt]

If the work week was less than 40 hours and if I had way more vacation weeks I wouldn't care that much about FIRE.

Knock it down to 4 days a week and 5 weeks a year of paid vacation and I would stop saving such a large percentage of my salary and start living it up a bit.

This is part of my problem right now.  For the past year and a half, I have telecommuted full time and have 5 weeks paid vacation; plus I like my job.  I know things can change unexpectedly, so I still need to keep saving, but I've lost a lot of my desire to keep my savings rate super high since I enjoy almost every day.

[zephyr911]

I'd probably stay longer. I don't dislike my job, I just dislike the lack of flexibility and the way it cramps my DIY habit.

[Neustache]

I plan on subbing three days a week (more for random leaves of teachers) when I semi-retire.  2 months off in the summer, two weeks at Christmas, 1 week in the spring, plus some random teacher conference/teacher work days.  Yes, please!

[asauer]

Yes, I would still FIRE but probably not a quickly.  I could do so much more at home if I worked 30hrs which would probably alleviate some urgency for retirement.  Also, this assumes a straight 40 hr week.  I assert that most (in the US) work more than 40 hrs- I work about 50.

[mcneally]

My employer allows us to work part time and that's my plan. A big part of the reason I want to stay is a pension, which you still get if working part time (working 20 hrs/wk for a year counts as working half a year for the pension calculation). My plan for a few years has been to work full time until the later of 1) I save $400k and 2) I turn 35. My reasoning on age 35 was that I'd could be pretty sure I don't want kids at that point, but I can probably make that call now. Lately I've been debating whether I should go part time sooner (I'm 29 with ~$220k saved). Working 4 days a week pushes back FI 4.5 years by my estimates (41 vs 45), but I don't think I want to fully RE before the pension at 57. Going down to 3 eight hour days would have me spending pretty much all of my income, so I don't plan to do that until I'm close to FI.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

I work part-time and I love my job.

If I were FI, I would not work a committed 20-hour-a-week schedule. I wouldn't commit to more than 1 or 2 shifts (not necessarily 8 hour ones) per week.

[oinkette]

My main problem with work is not the amount of hours I'm here, it's the control I have over it. I get 18 days off a year and more than most people for holidays (think university breaks). But there are certain times of year that I get the big fat NO for in terms of travel. Other times it's when it conflicts with a coworker's already snagged time.

My week is 37.5 and the hours are fairly flexible.  I just hate that it's a BIG FUCKING DEAL if I were to actually use all my 18 days at once.

[Mr. Green]

Absolutely. I still want my freedom. If I have to be there on certain days, and I have to do certain things, and I have to work with coworkers whether I like them or not, that's a whole lot of dictatorial stuff. No thanks. I want my choice to be my own every second of every day.

[ikonomore]

I work 35 hours a week with Sat, Sun and Monday off every week.
I get 4 weeks of vacation, which I can accumulate, 3 weeks sick,  which also accumulates, 13 holidays and 3 personal days.

I'm still ready to leave.  I think it all depends upon what you're used to.

[muckety_muck]

I would still FIRE in 5-7 years  if my work week was less than 40 hrs. About 24 hrs/wk would be IDEAL for the next 5-7 years. But. The demands of my job will not permit it. And I really enjoy the work. But not enough to do it more than ~7 yrs or for free (volunteer basis). I want to close this chapter of my life when I retire early. Move on to charity work, spending time enriching kids experiences at museums, travel, etc. Life would just be a LOT easier if I didn't have to have 40+ hrs/wk on the books for now.

[Inkedup]

I just hate that it's a BIG FUCKING DEAL if I were to actually use all my 18 days at once.

Someday I plan to test those waters at my workplace, which I haven't been able to do on account of needing to save up my time. (We are allowed to accumulate days, up to a point). My understanding is that we are technically allowed to take more than 2 weeks off at a time, but the unspoken vibe is that it is frowned upon, the only exceptions being official family leave (I'm in the US) or long-term illness. It's sad. 

[happy]

I work 3 days a week,  and still wish to retire.  Normal working hours would be a 60 hour week - at that rate if I worked 5 days, the weekend is resting and preparing for the next week. Working 3 days gives me time to start to get a taste of the activities I want to do in retirement, but I get frustrated because I still can't get much continuity, since the week is punctuated by work. I feel like a get a taster of retired life but not enough to be satisfying.

Not complaining too much, 3 days is much better than 5, but still I want more freedom!

Edit  auto correct typo

[Emilyngh]

DH works 20 hours a week, and I don't have to be in the office many more hours than that (I work at home some, but it's flexible and can be fit around other needs) *and* I don't have to be in the office at all for at least 3 months of the year.

I also really like my job, so I'm not sure if I will retire when FI.   We'll see how I feel about it all then.

[MLKnits]

My work week is under 40 hours (well--now I've been biking I come in earlier, but I goof off in my office for the first while, so it's still under 40 hours of work), but I absolutely can't keep this job until I'm 50 or 60. I'd die of a heart attack before I made it, I suspect.

If I could do a job in which I had less direct responsibility for other people's lives/children/happiness and still work the hours I like (something around 9-3:30, or 9-5 four days a week), I could definitely see myself doing that for a while. I still don't think I'd want to go to 65, though. It's still, at the end of the day, work--the problem is right there in the name.

[jprince7827]

If I had an optionally remote, 25-30 hour a week gig, and I somehow knew it'd be good for 10 years, I'd keep on doing it, even if I hit FI, just because I enjoy my kind of work most of the time.

By optionally remote, I mean I can go into an office when I like to feel "officey." Sometimes I like to do that.

Pretty tough to come by, unfortunately. I think the key is to build something important in an organization, so important that they really want to keep you, and then offer to quit or take part-time work.

[golden1]

Honestly, I don't do well without some sort of structure to my week, but being out of the house 50-55 hours a week (commute + job) is just too much and is very draining, especially with only 2 weeks vacation and one week sick/personal time.  My husband works 45 hours I would say, and he has a much shorter commute.  He ends up picking up the slack with most of the kid stuff these days.  My ideal would be 2-3 days of work per week, and that should be very attainable once the mortgage is paid off, assuming I can find an arrangement in my field that allows that workload.

[The_path_less_taken]

I'll probably continue to do fun gigs, like the liquor demos. Or Vayable.

But I don't want to "have" to be anywhere, at any certain time, most days.

Have always thought a ''real" life/work balance is 4 days a week, six hours a day. Plenty!

Being a grownup with a mortgage, I work 40 at the moment.

[Dicey]

To best answer this question, it would help to examine the acronym "FIRE". I'd still strive to be FI asap, but I might not have RE if the standard work week was less than 40 hours. However, I did discover that the attainment of FI made the desire to RE escalate exponentially. I'm happy every damn day that I could and I did. Or that I did and I could. YMMV.

[DoubleDown]

Absolutely. I still want my freedom. If I have to be there on certain days, and I have to do certain things, and I have to work with coworkers whether I like them or not, that's a whole lot of dictatorial stuff. No thanks. I want my choice to be my own every second of every day.

+1

[Kitsune]

I currently work 4 7-hour days/week, 2 of those from home, at a very reasonable salary, at a job I don't dislike.

Could I change my lifestyle to make more money (aka: 40 hours/week instead of 28) or to spend less money (sell the house we love in a location that's GREAT for us to move closer to the city, etc)? Sure. But my urgency in reaching FIRE isn't what it would be if I was working 40+ hours/week and living in the city... so I kind of look at it as a benefit of having the flexibility to enjoy time off now. :)

[Cookie78]

My standard week IS less than 40 hours. It's 35.

If it were as low as 20 hours I might work a little longer, but yes, eventually I'd still FIRE. In fact, once I FIRE, and for the first few years I plan on picking up a few casual temp jobs just for fun. Partly this is because I'm likely going to be FIREd a little earlier than I'm comfortable with, and partly because I like learning new things and doing new things and helping people out. I don't imagine I'll average anywhere close to 20 hours a week though.

[Villanelle]

I'd still want to FIRE.

That said, I would strongly consider taking a 35 hour job over a 40, even if it delayed FIRE.  In fact, I have at one point done that--lower pay for fewer hours (at the same hourly rate).  It helped with QOL, but it certainly wasn't the same has *all* of my time being my own, even if I then choose to use some of that time for work.  I still had set hours (with limited flexibility to shift on occasion if I had something specific). 

[Lady Fordragon]

While working less days/hours would be nice, I would still want the complete freedom that FIRE brings.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

I think I would be completely satisfied if I could work two or possible three days/week. That's hard enough to find, but the bigger issue seems to be finding a job in the location that we want. The thing that I envision doing with my free time - building our home, a permanent home that we will live in the rest of our lives - is pretty much pointless if we're not in a location where we want to spend the rest of our lives. I work in an industry that doesn't have much call for work-from-home employees, and the job locations mostly suck (though I will say, we are happy where we're at now, but not for the next 70 years.)

[goatmom]

I work about 20 hours a week - for myself.  I love what I do.  I try to learn more and get better at what I do. I love to learn and take classes, seminars, etc.  I can schedule vacation when I want - but will work more before I leave and after I get back to make up.  Granted my hourly wage is pretty good and my office is walking distance from my house.  Quit?  Probably not.  If I hated my job as much as some of you do (and I did have a job like that once) I would look forward to RE.  I just don't see ever not working.  I just like to work where and when I want.  20 hours is about perfect.  I would say I spend about another 10 reading journals, websites, etc related to work.

[Spruit]

My standard workweek is 20-22 hours. I work 4 afternoons and an evening, with an occasional morning thrown in every week or three. I get a (mandatory, ha!) vacation of two weeks around Christmas/New Years and four weeks in summer. The four weeks are paid by my employer (as is the law in the Netherlands), any additional days off (Chrismas break, a week in fall, a week in spring, two weeks in may) depend on how much overtime I've worked during the year. I save up for my vacations by working unpaid overtime at a one-on-one basis as I see fit. As long as my time off matches school holidays, that is. That's the caveat, I can't take just a random day off during schoolyear.

What I've noticed regarding my thoughts and feelings about FIRE:
On a week-to-week basis I really like the relaxed vibe of parttime work and I am perfectly content with working a few hours a day. Ample time to get housework done, time for hobbies, time for visiting friends and relatives on our free days. Work feels like a slight interruption from life instead of the other way around. Obviously my pay is humble, but I really like the work-life balance of this arrangement. Having extra time grows on you very quickly!

FIRE is still luring at the horizon, more for the FI than the RE at the moment. Whenever kids come into our lives, I want both of us to have the freedom to scale work down to a level we think is needed or wanted. Luckily we are both in a country/field where this can easily be done, without it being as black and white as Full-time vs. Quit. That way a slightly less ginormous stash is needed for the future.

[res]

I work from home(or often my local cafe) and do 30-35 hours a week with five weeks leave a year.

Still want to fire

[Schaefer Light]

For me, the ideal would be to work as many hours as was required to get the job done. Some weeks this may be 50, other weeks 10. If there is nothing to be done, go home with no recriminations. Unfortunately, my employer still considers "face time" as an indication of how much work is being done.

Couldn't have said it better myself.  I'd be in a much better place if this was allowed.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

As an Aussie, the US vacation deals I read about here seem draconian. We have National Employment Standards here which provide all employees (except part timers) with four weeks annual leave per year. This is in addition to National holidays like Christmas Day and Easter (it varies by State, but is around eight days per year) and sick leave entitlements.

It blows my mind how little vacation American companies offer their employees. The company that I work for now gives one week to new employees for the first year. This goes up to 2 weeks after 1 year, 3 weeks after 5 years, and it caps out at 4 weeks after 10 years. That's just pathetic, but pretty typical. I started out with 3 weeks, because I negotiated that before accepting the job. It blew my mind to find out that some of my co-workers didn't negotiate at all on this.

I may consider going back to work for the government when I get closer to retirement. The pay sucks in comparison, but I started out with 5 weeks of vacation, plus about 3 weeks of holidays (including the whole week off between Christmas-New Year's Day, so I didn't have to use any of my vacation time for that week). That's a reasonable amount of time to expect, I think, and more in line the rest of the developed world.

[arebelspy]

I would FIRE even if work was only 5 hours a week--1 hour per day--because I'd rather have complete freedom.

I've been out of the country for several months--couldn't do that if I was required to be at a job every day.

It's not about the time spent as the restrictions around life due to having to plan around that time, for me.

[Dee]

Right now, I feel like my ideal situation would be to work 4 days one week, 3 days the next. But it totally depends on what is going on at work. Usually, I feel like any amount of work is too much work. I may be feeling like this right now because I've had a lighter than usual last few weeks at work.

Like others have said, it would make sense for FI to remain important, with the RE part being far more negotiable.

Certainly, my current 37.5 hour/week work week, with close to 2 hrs of commuting time each day, does not feel optimal. Though it helps that I get several statutory holidays and 4 weeks of vacation per year.

[reader2580]

I wish just 40 hours a week was the norm.  For salaried professionals it is not at all unusual to be expected to work 45 to 60 hours a week.  My brother used to work at a place where everyone was told that 45 hours is the minimum expected for salaried employees.

I might be able to make more money at another employer if I switched jobs, but my hourly rate would likely go down as I am reasonably certain I would be working more hours.  It seems like the more you make in my profession the more hours you are expected to work.  I would be happy to work 45 or 50 hours a week if I could work from home to skip the time and cost of commuting.

[clarkfan1979]

My current workload is 40 hours, but it will go down 32 in the next few months. It will be 4 days at 8 hours each. In about a year it's going to be 24 hours a week. It's going to be 4 days a week at 6 hours a day. This is also 8 months out of the year. Because I have plenty of time to travel, I do not have to plans to FIRE. However, I do loose plans for my wife to FIRE. However, if her work doesn't interfere with our traveling she probably won't FIRE either.