Worst single financial mistake you've made?

[tooqk4u22]

Having 3 kids!  Will be probably close to $750k+ (activities, food, travel costs, clothes, upcoming college costs, everything other than shelter costs..
) - that doesn't even factor in opportunity costs with investing that money

I kid, I kid....not really a mistake......🤔

[Omy]

Not having kids was one of my best financial decisions. I've been told I will regret it one day, but not so far! 🥳

[secondcor521]

Mistakes for me are only those where I might have known better but went ahead anyway.

Worst:  Getting married to a "near miss" when I wasn't sure.  Net worth got divided in two at age 37.  Although I got three great kids out of the deal.

Second worst:  Paying off a 2% fixed rate mortgage early in order to simplify.  Although as a result of that move, I was able to do some financial maneuvering later that recouped some of the loss.

[Metalcat]

I am interested in the idea that a humanities degree is easier than a more practical degree. I took a wide variety of classes in college and I did not think that calculus and chemistry were *more difficult* than history, English, or Latin - just not terribly interesting to me. (Physics was the worst.) I later got an accounting degree and that was shockingly easy.

I’m feeling pretty good here, because I’ve made none of these mistakes. LOL Yeah, we could have made a lot more money, I’m sure, if that was our goal but it wasn’t.

STEM programs tend to have more course hours, but no, they aren't harder, especially not if you want to do really well.

The moment I knew I wanted to apply to professional grad school programs where I needed a near perfect GPA, I stopped taking so many humanities electives and moved my program towards science because it's so, so, sooooo much easier to predictably get A+ in science with just hard work.

The only course in my entire undergrad that kicked my ass was an art course. I worked several times harder for that course than my other courses and still couldn't ace it. It's the only non A on my entire transcript, because from that point on, I stopped taking those kinds of courses even though I loved them. I needed to protect my GPA for grad school. So more science it was!

[Cranky]

I am interested in the idea that a humanities degree is easier than a more practical degree. I took a wide variety of classes in college and I did not think that calculus and chemistry were *more difficult* than history, English, or Latin - just not terribly interesting to me. (Physics was the worst.) I later got an accounting degree and that was shockingly easy.

I’m feeling pretty good here, because I’ve made none of these mistakes. LOL Yeah, we could have made a lot more money, I’m sure, if that was our goal but it wasn’t.

STEM programs tend to have more course hours, but no, they aren't harder, especially not if you want to do really well.

The moment I knew I wanted to apply to professional grad school programs where I needed a near perfect GPA, I stopped taking so many humanities electives and moved my program towards science because it's so, so, sooooo much easier to predictably get A+ in science with just hard work.

The only course in my entire undergrad that kicked my ass was an art course. I worked several times harder for that course than my other courses and still couldn't ace it. It's the only non A on my entire transcript, because from that point on, I stopped taking those kinds of courses even though I loved them. I needed to protect my GPA for grad school. So more science it was!

I *think* that here STEM degrees and humanities degrees require about the same number of hours in your major. My poor dh had to spend an extra semester because he needed one more French class and one more humanities class to graduate with a degree in biology, and he really struggled through those. (He should not have picked a class that involved reading Moby Dick, that’s for sure.)

On an individual class level, I took a class called “Background Readings in Classical, Medieval and Renaissance Literature” with a required 53 books in a 16 week semester. It was a 6 credit hour class. The teachers were fantastic and it was probably the best class I’ve ever taken at any level, but it was brutal.

[Metalcat]

I am interested in the idea that a humanities degree is easier than a more practical degree. I took a wide variety of classes in college and I did not think that calculus and chemistry were *more difficult* than history, English, or Latin - just not terribly interesting to me. (Physics was the worst.) I later got an accounting degree and that was shockingly easy.

I’m feeling pretty good here, because I’ve made none of these mistakes. LOL Yeah, we could have made a lot more money, I’m sure, if that was our goal but it wasn’t.

STEM programs tend to have more course hours, but no, they aren't harder, especially not if you want to do really well.

The moment I knew I wanted to apply to professional grad school programs where I needed a near perfect GPA, I stopped taking so many humanities electives and moved my program towards science because it's so, so, sooooo much easier to predictably get A+ in science with just hard work.

The only course in my entire undergrad that kicked my ass was an art course. I worked several times harder for that course than my other courses and still couldn't ace it. It's the only non A on my entire transcript, because from that point on, I stopped taking those kinds of courses even though I loved them. I needed to protect my GPA for grad school. So more science it was!

I *think* that here STEM degrees and humanities degrees require about the same number of hours in your major. My poor dh had to spend an extra semester because he needed one more French class and one more humanities class to graduate with a degree in biology, and he really struggled through those. (He should not have picked a class that involved reading Moby Dick, that’s for sure.)

On an individual class level, I took a class called “Background Readings in Classical, Medieval and Renaissance Literature” with a required 53 books in a 16 week semester. It was a 6 credit hour class. The teachers were fantastic and it was probably the best class I’ve ever taken at any level, but it was brutal.

At my school the science classes had additional labs, so technically more course hours, but yeah, the humanities courses had much heavier reading requirements.

I absolutely put way more hours into many of my arts courses than my science courses, even with the additional time dedicated to labs.

[Raenia]

Biggest mistake was buying the wrong house.  We lived there two years, were absolutely miserable, found numerous problems that were not known or disclosed at sale (mold, failing retaining wall, leaky roof, old fire damage...).  Living in a dangerous construction zone during COVID was so damaging to our mental health that we had to sell.  Fortunately it was at the height of the market.  Unfortunately, we we selling it as an in-progress renovation with numerous damaging disclosures.  Sold for barely the balance of the mortgage.  We lost our downpayment (20k), new washer/dryer/water heater/furnace/AC (20k+), contractor work on the roof, on the mold, on the retaining wall (10k?), supplies for DIY insulation, drywall, lumber (1k+), plus closing costs (20k).  And that's not even considering opportunity cost or our own time and labor.

Very expensive mistake.  Would have been worse if we'd stayed, though.

[SuperNintendo Chalmers]

I am interested in the idea that a humanities degree is easier than a more practical degree. I took a wide variety of classes in college and I did not think that calculus and chemistry were *more difficult* than history, English, or Latin - just not terribly interesting to me. (Physics was the worst.) I later got an accounting degree and that was shockingly easy.

I’m feeling pretty good here, because I’ve made none of these mistakes. LOL Yeah, we could have made a lot more money, I’m sure, if that was our goal but it wasn’t.

STEM programs tend to have more course hours, but no, they aren't harder, especially not if you want to do really well.

The moment I knew I wanted to apply to professional grad school programs where I needed a near perfect GPA, I stopped taking so many humanities electives and moved my program towards science because it's so, so, sooooo much easier to predictably get A+ in science with just hard work.

The only course in my entire undergrad that kicked my ass was an art course. I worked several times harder for that course than my other courses and still couldn't ace it. It's the only non A on my entire transcript, because from that point on, I stopped taking those kinds of courses even though I loved them. I needed to protect my GPA for grad school. So more science it was!

I *think* that here STEM degrees and humanities degrees require about the same number of hours in your major. My poor dh had to spend an extra semester because he needed one more French class and one more humanities class to graduate with a degree in biology, and he really struggled through those. (He should not have picked a class that involved reading Moby Dick, that’s for sure.)

On an individual class level, I took a class called “Background Readings in Classical, Medieval and Renaissance Literature” with a required 53 books in a 16 week semester. It was a 6 credit hour class. The teachers were fantastic and it was probably the best class I’ve ever taken at any level, but it was brutal.

At my school the science classes had additional labs, so technically more course hours, but yeah, the humanities courses had much heavier reading requirements.

I absolutely put way more hours into many of my arts courses than my science courses, even with the additional time dedicated to labs.

I think my own perception that STEM courses are on average "harder" than humanities courses comes from watching the Organic Chemistry kids on test day when I was in college.  Lots of people losing their shit.  I never took Orgo Chem, but it seemed like a soul crusher of a course....

As a history major I'm biased, but I cringe when I see (more and more these days) discussions along the lines of, "we need to push kids into STEM degrees so they can make money and not waste their time."  I agree with the discussion upthread regarding the overlooked merits of a humanities degree.  Not only writing ability which has been discussed above, but I think humanities degrees can teach a broader and more critical way of thinking. 

As a very generalized anecdotal example, I work with a lot of people with STEM degrees, and I've been a part of many a meeting where people are like, "it's agreed, the document says A and thus we should do B."  When I or someone with a non-tech degree says, "well, have you thought that the doc might be saying C and we should consider D, E, or F?" the reaction is usually, "huh, didn't think of it that way."

To be clear, I'm not bashing STEM degrees or suggesting non-STEM folks are smarter.  Not by a long shot.  I just think that our bottom-line culture is too quick to overlook the critical-thinking benefits of a liberal arts humanities degree. 

[By the River]

Majoring in Communication. In my defense, I got zero help on choosing a major from my parents and I was dealing with severe depression and anxiety. But still. I could have majored in something useful and had a well-paying career.

Same. Except it was English instead of Communications, so slightly worse.

I don't know where people are making six figures tech writing but I need to figure it out.

Lol, right? I started learning DITA and grant writing as a side hustle, and I'm hoping that I can make a career switch in a few years to tech writing.

The last grant writing position I applied for was paying $45,000 a year.

Grant writing is one of those things that seems exceptionally hard to break into.  I'm an English major, have taken a grant writing course, and worked many years in non-profits, including as a grant administer where I oversaw awarded grants and thus was around successful proposals (and working with major funding agencies) every day. So it seems like I'm about as qualified as one can be, without having actually been a grant writer.   But I've never found** a grant writing job that didn't require a history of successful grant proposals. 

Even with mediocre pay I'd strongly look at some contract work as a grant writer, since everything is side hustle/barista fire money for me at this point. 

**To be fair, I have only looked sporadically.

I read this thread earlier today and then after lunch talked to a colleague who mentioned that there are contingency grant writers. Is that what you mean as contract work? Are contingency writers common? (I'm not in a decision-making position, just happened to be talking about this.)

[Villanelle]

Majoring in Communication. In my defense, I got zero help on choosing a major from my parents and I was dealing with severe depression and anxiety. But still. I could have majored in something useful and had a well-paying career.

Same. Except it was English instead of Communications, so slightly worse.

I don't know where people are making six figures tech writing but I need to figure it out.

Lol, right? I started learning DITA and grant writing as a side hustle, and I'm hoping that I can make a career switch in a few years to tech writing.

The last grant writing position I applied for was paying $45,000 a year.

Grant writing is one of those things that seems exceptionally hard to break into.  I'm an English major, have taken a grant writing course, and worked many years in non-profits, including as a grant administer where I oversaw awarded grants and thus was around successful proposals (and working with major funding agencies) every day. So it seems like I'm about as qualified as one can be, without having actually been a grant writer.   But I've never found** a grant writing job that didn't require a history of successful grant proposals. 

Even with mediocre pay I'd strongly look at some contract work as a grant writer, since everything is side hustle/barista fire money for me at this point. 

**To be fair, I have only looked sporadically.

I read this thread earlier today and then after lunch talked to a colleague who mentioned that there are contingency grant writers. Is that what you mean as contract work? Are contingency writers common? (I'm not in a decision-making position, just happened to be talking about this.)

By "contingency" are you referring to just making a % of any successful grant proposals written?  Based on what I've seen, there are 3 types of grant writers.  First are regular employees.  Major non-profits might have someone on staff whose full time job is writing proposals (and likely also researching to find grants to apply for).  Then in the freelance space there are those who work for a fee for performing the work of writing the proposal, and those who work for a % of successful grants.

[rmorris50]

One worth mentioning for DH and I is not saving enough in after tax brokerage accounts. We are retirement and house rich but cash “poor”. So trying to figure how to retire early and potentially tap locked up money efficiently is very tricky.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nereo]

One worth mentioning for DH and I is not saving enough in after tax brokerage accounts. We are retirement and house rich but cash “poor”. So trying to figure how to retire early and potentially tap locked up money efficiently is very tricky.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lots of good advice on how to do that here.  What are your specific challenges and goals?  In general if you can front a 5 year period you can establish a pipeline to bridge the rest.

[LightStache]

Ooh this is a fun thread! Dumb young moves:

- At 20, accepting a $30K car from my parents at instead of asking for a $10K car and $20K cash
- At 21, taking out a $30K loan and investing half into one stock based on a family-member's advice
- At 24, selling the gift car, cashing out my Roth IRA, going into debt to buy a motorcycle, a truck and a boat (I think this has to be THE worst)

The financial cost of my degrees dwarfs those mistakes, but they've probably paid off in higher compensation. If I had a do-over, I'd chose different schools and degrees though.

[Metalcat]

I am interested in the idea that a humanities degree is easier than a more practical degree. I took a wide variety of classes in college and I did not think that calculus and chemistry were *more difficult* than history, English, or Latin - just not terribly interesting to me. (Physics was the worst.) I later got an accounting degree and that was shockingly easy.

I’m feeling pretty good here, because I’ve made none of these mistakes. LOL Yeah, we could have made a lot more money, I’m sure, if that was our goal but it wasn’t.

STEM programs tend to have more course hours, but no, they aren't harder, especially not if you want to do really well.

The moment I knew I wanted to apply to professional grad school programs where I needed a near perfect GPA, I stopped taking so many humanities electives and moved my program towards science because it's so, so, sooooo much easier to predictably get A+ in science with just hard work.

The only course in my entire undergrad that kicked my ass was an art course. I worked several times harder for that course than my other courses and still couldn't ace it. It's the only non A on my entire transcript, because from that point on, I stopped taking those kinds of courses even though I loved them. I needed to protect my GPA for grad school. So more science it was!

I *think* that here STEM degrees and humanities degrees require about the same number of hours in your major. My poor dh had to spend an extra semester because he needed one more French class and one more humanities class to graduate with a degree in biology, and he really struggled through those. (He should not have picked a class that involved reading Moby Dick, that’s for sure.)

On an individual class level, I took a class called “Background Readings in Classical, Medieval and Renaissance Literature” with a required 53 books in a 16 week semester. It was a 6 credit hour class. The teachers were fantastic and it was probably the best class I’ve ever taken at any level, but it was brutal.

At my school the science classes had additional labs, so technically more course hours, but yeah, the humanities courses had much heavier reading requirements.

I absolutely put way more hours into many of my arts courses than my science courses, even with the additional time dedicated to labs.

I think my own perception that STEM courses are on average "harder" than humanities courses comes from watching the Organic Chemistry kids on test day when I was in college.  Lots of people losing their shit.  I never took Orgo Chem, but it seemed like a soul crusher of a course....

As a history major I'm biased, but I cringe when I see (more and more these days) discussions along the lines of, "we need to push kids into STEM degrees so they can make money and not waste their time."  I agree with the discussion upthread regarding the overlooked merits of a humanities degree.  Not only writing ability which has been discussed above, but I think humanities degrees can teach a broader and more critical way of thinking. 

As a very generalized anecdotal example, I work with a lot of people with STEM degrees, and I've been a part of many a meeting where people are like, "it's agreed, the document says A and thus we should do B."  When I or someone with a non-tech degree says, "well, have you thought that the doc might be saying C and we should consider D, E, or F?" the reaction is usually, "huh, didn't think of it that way."

To be clear, I'm not bashing STEM degrees or suggesting non-STEM folks are smarter.  Not by a long shot.  I just think that our bottom-line culture is too quick to overlook the critical-thinking benefits of a liberal arts humanities degree.

Org Chem was probably the easiest course I've ever taken. Lol, I liked the stick drawings.

[calimom]

Bought a house I couldn't really afford with an ARM in early 2008. Had to stop all my voluntary retirement contributions to make the house payments and pay bills.

Thankfully I was able to white-knuckle it through seven years (!) of being underwater on my loan (using Zillow for value estimates), and now the house is worth about 80% more than I paid for it (again using the Zestimate).

Things turned out okay, sort of, but all those years of PMI down the drain, and all the growth on the money I could have been cramming into index funds... I haven't tried to estimate my net worth difference if I hadn't bought the house, but I think it's likely to be substantial.

You lived in it, didn't you? You had to live somewhere. Factoring in rent costs would probably make the numbers look better. Kudos to you for hanging in there until the market recovered.

Solidarity! I bought a house in 2007 with a pretty hefty down, the idea being the payments would be affordable. They were...and then the value of the house went down, down, down. Like you, I hung on (and where was I going to go with 3 kids anyhow), recast the loan to a lower rate and then finally realized value gains in equity. It took some time.*

A big mistake my late husband and I made was investing in wireless stocks. It was a sure thing, they said. It can't go wrong, they said. Does anyone remember JDS Uniface or Nortel?  It wasn't terrible, $15,000 or so down the drain and we ended up owing Charles Schwab $$ to get out of it, but still. It was tempered by my dear husband working for Apple for a few years and buying their stock at affordable employee rates. I still have it, my only single stock. Thank you, sweetie.

*During this time I dropped my then 3-year-old daughter off at my aunt's to have her babysit for the day. Aunt and I were commiserating about the state of the real estate market. Aunt overshared that her friend Nancy was  upside-down in her house. Like, totally underwater. Later, Aunt and DD were out and about and DD wanted to stop and see Nancy. Aunt did and DD was confused. She told Nancy she wanted to see her underwater and upside-down in her house!

[kenner]

I am interested in the idea that a humanities degree is easier than a more practical degree. I took a wide variety of classes in college and I did not think that calculus and chemistry were *more difficult* than history, English, or Latin - just not terribly interesting to me. (Physics was the worst.) I later got an accounting degree and that was shockingly easy.

I’m feeling pretty good here, because I’ve made none of these mistakes. LOL Yeah, we could have made a lot more money, I’m sure, if that was our goal but it wasn’t.

STEM programs tend to have more course hours, but no, they aren't harder, especially not if you want to do really well.

The moment I knew I wanted to apply to professional grad school programs where I needed a near perfect GPA, I stopped taking so many humanities electives and moved my program towards science because it's so, so, sooooo much easier to predictably get A+ in science with just hard work.

The only course in my entire undergrad that kicked my ass was an art course. I worked several times harder for that course than my other courses and still couldn't ace it. It's the only non A on my entire transcript, because from that point on, I stopped taking those kinds of courses even though I loved them. I needed to protect my GPA for grad school. So more science it was!

Sorry, but this is a really awful blanket statement.  They aren't harder for some people.  Apparently you're one of them, I'm definitely one of them (when I took art classes in school I took them pass/fail for exactly the reason pointed out above while getting a math minor was an afterthought), I suspect a fair amount of this forum is the same given it's nominally a financial forum.  On the other hand there are people I tutor that get sent to me because they're taking basic algebra for the third or fourth time because they have to have one math class to graduate, and even if they can write/illustrate/translate in ways that I never could, there's literally a single math class holding them back because the concepts just do not click.  With the amount of time they put in the idea that it's just a matter of 'working harder'...different people have different skills and generic blanket statements like how easy it is to do well in STEM classes is awfully dismissive of those whose talents don't lie in that particular direction.

Anyway, to get back to the actual thread...probably not starting retirement accounts when I first started working.  I opened them when I got my first 'professional' full-time job, but if I'd started back in high school or even with college I'd have hit my number a few years before I actually did.

[rmorris50]

One worth mentioning for DH and I is not saving enough in after tax brokerage accounts. We are retirement and house rich but cash “poor”. So trying to figure how to retire early and potentially tap locked up money efficiently is very tricky.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lots of good advice on how to do that here.  What are your specific challenges and goals?  In general if you can front a 5 year period you can establish a pipeline to bridge the rest.

We have kinda figured out how we would/will bridge the next 7 years, combination of several options. It’s just much more tricky, or in other words required much more planning and modeling the options as opposed to if our after-tax was much better funded. I’m an actuary so I liked the modeling exercise but I suspect most people wouldn’t know how to go about or have the desire to do that.

I didn’t discover FIRE until later in life. When I was younger I thought I would just work to traditional retirement age and we just socked money away in all these pre-tax accounts without much thought. I didn’t appreciate I’d have such a burning desire to retire early as I approach 50 :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Metalcat]

I am interested in the idea that a humanities degree is easier than a more practical degree. I took a wide variety of classes in college and I did not think that calculus and chemistry were *more difficult* than history, English, or Latin - just not terribly interesting to me. (Physics was the worst.) I later got an accounting degree and that was shockingly easy.

I’m feeling pretty good here, because I’ve made none of these mistakes. LOL Yeah, we could have made a lot more money, I’m sure, if that was our goal but it wasn’t.

STEM programs tend to have more course hours, but no, they aren't harder, especially not if you want to do really well.

The moment I knew I wanted to apply to professional grad school programs where I needed a near perfect GPA, I stopped taking so many humanities electives and moved my program towards science because it's so, so, sooooo much easier to predictably get A+ in science with just hard work.

The only course in my entire undergrad that kicked my ass was an art course. I worked several times harder for that course than my other courses and still couldn't ace it. It's the only non A on my entire transcript, because from that point on, I stopped taking those kinds of courses even though I loved them. I needed to protect my GPA for grad school. So more science it was!

Sorry, but this is a really awful blanket statement.  They aren't harder for some people.  Apparently you're one of them, I'm definitely one of them (when I took art classes in school I took them pass/fail for exactly the reason pointed out above while getting a math minor was an afterthought), I suspect a fair amount of this forum is the same given it's nominally a financial forum.  On the other hand there are people I tutor that get sent to me because they're taking basic algebra for the third or fourth time because they have to have one math class to graduate, and even if they can write/illustrate/translate in ways that I never could, there's literally a single math class holding them back because the concepts just do not click.  With the amount of time they put in the idea that it's just a matter of 'working harder'...different people have different skills and generic blanket statements like how easy it is to do well in STEM classes is awfully dismissive of those whose talents don't lie in that particular direction.

Anyway, to get back to the actual thread...probably not starting retirement accounts when I first started working.  I opened them when I got my first 'professional' full-time job, but if I'd started back in high school or even with college I'd have hit my number a few years before I actually did.

I literally didn't say that.

I said that they're not necessarily harder, especially if you want to do really well.

Then I shared my personal anecdote about how I found them much easier. I didn't say everyone would find them much easier, just that they aren't, by default, harder than humanities courses.

Your point about individual skills and talents actually supports what I'm saying. Some people will find STEM courses harder, some people will find humanities courses harder, and the individual differences are even more refined than that. Some specific topics are easier for some people to grasp than others.

None of that counters my argument that STEM isn't necessarily harder than humanities.

Which is the *only* point I was making. Not that my personal anecdote generalizes to everyone.

[OrangePill]

My worsts financial mistakes are probably related to gambling. It’s not THAT bad, but I definitely could have at least 5k $ more if I didn’t.

The worst one was when I found an old crypto wallet with about 1k $ worth and went to an online casino and lost it all within 10 minutes. Never again!

[LightStache]

One worth mentioning for DH and I is not saving enough in after tax brokerage accounts. We are retirement and house rich but cash “poor”. So trying to figure how to retire early and potentially tap locked up money efficiently is very tricky.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lots of good advice on how to do that here.  What are your specific challenges and goals?  In general if you can front a 5 year period you can establish a pipeline to bridge the rest.

We have kinda figured out how we would/will bridge the next 7 years, combination of several options. It’s just much more tricky, or in other words required much more planning and modeling the options as opposed to if our after-tax was much better funded. I’m an actuary so I liked the modeling exercise but I suspect most people wouldn’t know how to go about or have the desire to do that.

I didn’t discover FIRE until later in life. When I was younger I thought I would just work to traditional retirement age and we just socked money away in all these pre-tax accounts without much thought. I didn’t appreciate I’d have such a burning desire to retire early as I approach 50 :-)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you in the US? A Roth ladder only takes 4 years and a day to start so there should be no scenario where you need to bridge 7 years.

[kenner]

I am interested in the idea that a humanities degree is easier than a more practical degree. I took a wide variety of classes in college and I did not think that calculus and chemistry were *more difficult* than history, English, or Latin - just not terribly interesting to me. (Physics was the worst.) I later got an accounting degree and that was shockingly easy.

I’m feeling pretty good here, because I’ve made none of these mistakes. LOL Yeah, we could have made a lot more money, I’m sure, if that was our goal but it wasn’t.

STEM programs tend to have more course hours, but no, they aren't harder, especially not if you want to do really well.

The moment I knew I wanted to apply to professional grad school programs where I needed a near perfect GPA, I stopped taking so many humanities electives and moved my program towards science because it's so, so, sooooo much easier to predictably get A+ in science with just hard work.

The only course in my entire undergrad that kicked my ass was an art course. I worked several times harder for that course than my other courses and still couldn't ace it. It's the only non A on my entire transcript, because from that point on, I stopped taking those kinds of courses even though I loved them. I needed to protect my GPA for grad school. So more science it was!

Sorry, but this is a really awful blanket statement.  They aren't harder for some people.  Apparently you're one of them, I'm definitely one of them (when I took art classes in school I took them pass/fail for exactly the reason pointed out above while getting a math minor was an afterthought), I suspect a fair amount of this forum is the same given it's nominally a financial forum.  On the other hand there are people I tutor that get sent to me because they're taking basic algebra for the third or fourth time because they have to have one math class to graduate, and even if they can write/illustrate/translate in ways that I never could, there's literally a single math class holding them back because the concepts just do not click.  With the amount of time they put in the idea that it's just a matter of 'working harder'...different people have different skills and generic blanket statements like how easy it is to do well in STEM classes is awfully dismissive of those whose talents don't lie in that particular direction.

Anyway, to get back to the actual thread...probably not starting retirement accounts when I first started working.  I opened them when I got my first 'professional' full-time job, but if I'd started back in high school or even with college I'd have hit my number a few years before I actually did.

I literally didn't say that.

I said that they're not necessarily harder, especially if you want to do really well.

Then I shared my personal anecdote about how I found them much easier. I didn't say everyone would find them much easier, just that they aren't, by default, harder than humanities courses.

Your point about individual skills and talents actually supports what I'm saying. Some people will find STEM courses harder, some people will find humanities courses harder, and the individual differences are even more refined than that. Some specific topics are easier for some people to grasp than others.

None of that counters my argument that STEM isn't necessarily harder than humanities.

Which is the *only* point I was making. Not that my personal anecdote generalizes to everyone.

Not to state the obvious, but the literal first line directly quoted from you a paragraph above:  STEM programs tend to have more course hours, but no, they aren't harder, especially not if you want to do really well.

So if you meant 'necessarily'...you forgot that part.

Anyway, getting off this thread, this kind of blanket statement followed by attempted retconning when called out on it is exactly why I don't spend a lot of time on this forum.

[wenchsenior]

Anyways, back on topic my single worst financial decision was buying a $5k mattress.  5 grand!  For a mattress!

If only wasting $5k was your worst ever financial mistake you must be doing great!

Not to mention that I think we paid ~3K for our Sleepnumber mattress and consider that one of our best purchasing decisions ever.

[Villanelle]

Reading through the answers makes me realize that I don't consider the "worst" to be necessarily the same as he most expensive. I guess it has more to do with the decision making and level of waste than it does the absolute bottom line. 

[Morning Glory]

Majoring in Communication. In my defense, I got zero help on choosing a major from my parents and I was dealing with severe depression and anxiety. But still. I could have majored in something useful and had a well-paying career.

Enh, I chose a "useful" degree and even though I get paid pretty well it kinda sucks.  It seems like the communications/english/history/psychology degrees are ones that are easy enough to obtain, but you really have to grind or go to grad school to make something out of them.  With engineering, the suffering is built-in.

I did nursing for the job security and thankfully got to barebones fi before the burnout did me in. I know a few people who managed to be successful with those "useless " degrees and they seem much happier with their careers.  I suppose one could say I had the insight to know I don't have the networking/hustling abilities/charm required to be given the same sorts of opportunities. 

Most of my mistakes involve being too conservative: I was probably about 35 when I realized that making extra payments on my 4% mortgage while contributing to my 403b only enough to get the match wasn't the best investment strategy, but I caught on quick enough after that. Hey, at least I never ended up under water on the house I bought in 2007!

[Morning Glory]

Ignorance on paying for college.  Parents aren't financially savvy, just always assumed it was normal to borrow the full cost of a 4 year university education starting at age 18 and that we'd/I'd "figure out a way to repay later".  This meant that I was not financially savvy at the time either.  My only money sense was that I knew it was bad to hold a balance on credit cards (like my parents did every month) and I wanted to avoid doing that.  It was all send to college even without much of a plan. 

Hey that bolded part was totally me too! My family was just dirt poor and thought, "Well if you go to school, you'll make money! So the loans don't matter now. By the way, can you take out a little extra for..." I was not financial savvy enough (or strong mentally enough) to say no...

So basically I had way too much student loan debt for my degree, no plan on what I was going to do with it and no natural inclination to save. But at least I somehow knew not to get credit cards. I then took too long to start saving, but taking out all those extra loans, that was a real kick in the pants when I started to get my financial house in order.

I don't regret the other choices I made about college though. While I do not use my degree in the specific sense, it certainly put me ont he path to where I am today. I just wish I'd not taken out so much debt!

I did the opposite mistake with college: was so afraid to borrow money that I worked low wage jobs full-time + while attending community college and had to drop out because I got sick. Took 2 years off to work and save after getting my lpn. Was 26 when I got my rn, and worked full time as an lpn while in school.  If I'd just borrowed money I could have started professional career at 21 and invested the extra five years of earnings and come out way ahead, plus have had an easier and more enjoyable time in college. 

[charis]

I didn't realize until I was helping my spouse with a financial aid application for school (my parents did mine) that accepting a financial package is just a button that you click on to accept the loan amounts offered. You can click on another button and enter a partial amount. But when you are broke and staring at $$$ that will cover not just tuition but rent and food? And maybe you are a new college student who doesn't know if they will have the time or ability to earn said rent and food during college. Lots of us (me!) have family support and don't realize that many college students are food insecure or worried about getting through the next semester.

[LightStache]

Bought a franchise restaurant with a friend.  Absolute disaster that I am just beginning to extricate myself from and which probably set me back 10 years from FIRE.  The friendship survived at least, we both got screwed despite our best efforts.

However, while I bitterly regret what happened, I learnt a ton about myself through my failed business experience.  In fact, I think given my personality it was inevitable that I would have ended up in some misguided business scheme with friends /family due to my conflict avoidance in personal relationships.  I view this experience as very expensive education and it will definitely help me protect/grow my stash going forward.

This is interesting! Have you shared more details on the forum somewhere? Would be valuable content for the entrepreneurship section.

[Arbitrage]

Strictly financially speaking, I guess you'd have to say that moving 1200 miles and dropping down to part-time work/coast-FIRE was our worst mistake. 

From a personal standpoint, it was our best decision.

Aside from that, I guess I'd go with an entry-level luxury coupe I bought about 1.5 years after starting my career.  That money definitely would've done a lot more for us in my 403(b), which I didn't start maxing until around the time that car was paid off. 

Interestingly, I just plugged the price I paid for that car into an inflation calculator, and it's less than the average price of a new car these days.  I guess one thing I did get from that mistake was perspective on how much a nice car matters to me...or doesn't.  It was fun, but I have more fun (and a much bigger bank account, and a healthier body, and a clearer conscience) relying upon an e-bike for my transportation. 

[bryan995]

My biggest financial mistake was initially focusing on reducing spending far more than increasing income.

Even after applying only minimal effort to optimize expenses, I’d imagine the majority of people are better served by devoting spare brain cycles to growing their income over trying to shave another 1%-5% from their spending. (Especially during peak income growth years, ages 20- 45)

The 80/20 rule wins again.

[Metalcat]

Not to state the obvious, but the literal first line directly quoted from you a paragraph above:  STEM programs tend to have more course hours, but no, they aren't harder, especially not if you want to do really well.

So if you meant 'necessarily'...you forgot that part.

Anyway, getting off this thread, this kind of blanket statement followed by attempted retconning when called out on it is exactly why I don't spend a lot of time on this forum.

Maybe I'm having comprehension issues, but my statement is that the programs themselves aren't harder. Some people struggle with particular subjects and others struggle with others, but that doesn't make STEM programs harder than other programs. Obviously subjects that people struggle with are going to be harder for them. I thought that was a given.

There's just this dominant social discourse that STEM is sooooo hard and arts degrees are sooooo easy, but that just isn't true. I'll fully admit that I may not have explained myself well. But I most certainly was not trying to say what you suggested I was saying.

As for my specific point about doing really well in courses, that's assuming a student who doesn't struggle with arts vs science. The reason it easier to do well in STEM courses is because the marking is more objective. So for those who can't afford A- on their transcript, the writing-based arts courses tend to be a minefield of risk because of their more subjective marking schemes.

It's a lot easier to get A+ in courses where there are clear and inarguably answers that can earn you a grade over 90%. That's what I meant by easier to do extremely well.

[getsorted]

My biggest financial mistake was initially focusing on reducing spending far more than increasing income.

Even after applying only minimal effort to optimize expenses, I’d imagine the majority of people are better served by devoting spare brain cycles to growing their income over trying to shave another 1%-5% from their spending. (Especially during peak income growth years, ages 20- 45)

The 80/20 rule wins again.

Oof. This one is me, too.

[Channel-Z]

I suppose my biggest mistake was not choosing a high-paying a career. After that, it's not buying a house (didn't think I would be in the same job for so long).

[englishteacheralex]

Moving to Hawaii from upstate New York to be a public school teacher straight out of college. It sounded like an awesome adventure. In the area where I grew up, teacher salaries are very high, and competition was fierce for the job I wanted (secondary ed English). Hawaii has loads of teacher jobs and it sounded like fun. I didn't think through the implications of beginning my professional life in such an insanely HCOL area, so far away from any family or any kind of social network.

I'm still in Hawaii, and from a financial standpoint, it's still not a wise place to be as a teacher. Fortunately I've made a lot of good financial decisions while I've been here, so it's working out ok.

[Metalcat]

Moving to Hawaii from upstate New York to be a public school teacher straight out of college. It sounded like an awesome adventure. In the area where I grew up, teacher salaries are very high, and competition was fierce for the job I wanted (secondary ed English). Hawaii has loads of teacher jobs and it sounded like fun. I didn't think through the implications of beginning my professional life in such an insanely HCOL area, so far away from any family or any kind of social network.

I'm still in Hawaii, and from a financial standpoint, it's still not a wise place to be as a teacher. Fortunately I've made a lot of good financial decisions while I've been here, so it's working out ok.

But was it an awesome adventure?

I would have guessed that since you are still there that it was worth the tradeoff or else you would have moved?

[englishteacheralex]

Moving to Hawaii from upstate New York to be a public school teacher straight out of college. It sounded like an awesome adventure. In the area where I grew up, teacher salaries are very high, and competition was fierce for the job I wanted (secondary ed English). Hawaii has loads of teacher jobs and it sounded like fun. I didn't think through the implications of beginning my professional life in such an insanely HCOL area, so far away from any family or any kind of social network.

I'm still in Hawaii, and from a financial standpoint, it's still not a wise place to be as a teacher. Fortunately I've made a lot of good financial decisions while I've been here, so it's working out ok.

But was it an awesome adventure?

I would have guessed that since you are still there that it was worth the tradeoff or else you would have moved?

LOL it was more of a miserable adventure for the first two years, when I was a beginning teacher, had no money, didn't know anyone, and lived in various iffy roommate situations to try to deal with the crazy rent here. But I loved my job and I loved not dealing with the cold weather of upstate NY, so those factors kept me in Hawaii.

I tried to move to the PNW right after the recession of 2008, when the public school system furloughed us on Fridays to save money, but hiring was frozen at many school districts across the mainland, so I stayed put here. Then in 2011 I started teaching at a private school in Honolulu that paid me a lot more money, and there I found a lot of co-workers my own age who became good friends. One of them had a roommate who started dating me, and then we got married. So yeah, I kind of got sucked in. It's a nice life.

But our mortgage+HOA is bananas, and the price of groceries here means I'll never impress anyone in the MMM forums with my monthly grocery spend, so...living here is kind of dumb from a financial perspective. If I had stayed in the area where I grew up, I probably would have found a job eventually, and the cheap property (up until Covid) means I could have had a real estate empire by now with a fat New York public school teacher pension.

[2sk22]

Years ago, based on bad advice from a friend, we sent our older daughter to a private school from kindergarten to fifth grade. We could afford the fees but it did reduce our savings rate a lot. The bigger problem was that the quality of the teaching was meh at best and the kids were obnoxious spoiled brats. Then, the school increased tuition very substantially right when my younger daughter was starting school. We bailed at that point and switched my older daughter to our public school. Both of our kids did very well in our public school system.

[rothwem]

Moving to Hawaii from upstate New York to be a public school teacher straight out of college. It sounded like an awesome adventure. In the area where I grew up, teacher salaries are very high, and competition was fierce for the job I wanted (secondary ed English). Hawaii has loads of teacher jobs and it sounded like fun. I didn't think through the implications of beginning my professional life in such an insanely HCOL area, so far away from any family or any kind of social network.

I'm still in Hawaii, and from a financial standpoint, it's still not a wise place to be as a teacher. Fortunately I've made a lot of good financial decisions while I've been here, so it's working out ok.

But was it an awesome adventure?

I would have guessed that since you are still there that it was worth the tradeoff or else you would have moved?

LOL it was more of a miserable adventure for the first two years, when I was a beginning teacher, had no money, didn't know anyone, and lived in various iffy roommate situations to try to deal with the crazy rent here. But I loved my job and I loved not dealing with the cold weather of upstate NY, so those factors kept me in Hawaii.

I tried to move to the PNW right after the recession of 2008, when the public school system furloughed us on Fridays to save money, but hiring was frozen at many school districts across the mainland, so I stayed put here. Then in 2011 I started teaching at a private school in Honolulu that paid me a lot more money, and there I found a lot of co-workers my own age who became good friends. One of them had a roommate who started dating me, and then we got married. So yeah, I kind of got sucked in. It's a nice life.

But our mortgage+HOA is bananas, and the price of groceries here means I'll never impress anyone in the MMM forums with my monthly grocery spend, so...living here is kind of dumb from a financial perspective. If I had stayed in the area where I grew up, I probably would have found a job eventually, and the cheap property (up until Covid) means I could have had a real estate empire by now with a fat New York public school teacher pension.

If it makes you feel better, we kinda did a 10% intensity version of what you did by moving to Asheville, NC.  Gorgeous scenery, amazing mountain biking, but totally dysfunctional local government, relatively low salaries and high COL.  I kinda want to leave, but we've been here four years and we have friends and a house now so I feel a little stuck. 

[englishteacheralex]

Moving to Hawaii from upstate New York to be a public school teacher straight out of college. It sounded like an awesome adventure. In the area where I grew up, teacher salaries are very high, and competition was fierce for the job I wanted (secondary ed English). Hawaii has loads of teacher jobs and it sounded like fun. I didn't think through the implications of beginning my professional life in such an insanely HCOL area, so far away from any family or any kind of social network.

I'm still in Hawaii, and from a financial standpoint, it's still not a wise place to be as a teacher. Fortunately I've made a lot of good financial decisions while I've been here, so it's working out ok.

But was it an awesome adventure?

I would have guessed that since you are still there that it was worth the tradeoff or else you would have moved?

LOL it was more of a miserable adventure for the first two years, when I was a beginning teacher, had no money, didn't know anyone, and lived in various iffy roommate situations to try to deal with the crazy rent here. But I loved my job and I loved not dealing with the cold weather of upstate NY, so those factors kept me in Hawaii.

I tried to move to the PNW right after the recession of 2008, when the public school system furloughed us on Fridays to save money, but hiring was frozen at many school districts across the mainland, so I stayed put here. Then in 2011 I started teaching at a private school in Honolulu that paid me a lot more money, and there I found a lot of co-workers my own age who became good friends. One of them had a roommate who started dating me, and then we got married. So yeah, I kind of got sucked in. It's a nice life.

But our mortgage+HOA is bananas, and the price of groceries here means I'll never impress anyone in the MMM forums with my monthly grocery spend, so...living here is kind of dumb from a financial perspective. If I had stayed in the area where I grew up, I probably would have found a job eventually, and the cheap property (up until Covid) means I could have had a real estate empire by now with a fat New York public school teacher pension.

If it makes you feel better, we kinda did a 10% intensity version of what you did by moving to Asheville, NC.  Gorgeous scenery, amazing mountain biking, but totally dysfunctional local government, relatively low salaries and high COL.  I kinda want to leave, but we've been here four years and we have friends and a house now so I feel a little stuck.

OMG so funny! Asheville has been on my list of fantasy places to move to for years! It's HCOL? No way! I've Zillowed it many times...see this is what happens when your real estate point of reference is Honolulu. Almost anything else seems like peanuts by comparison. (We just sold our first condo, an 850 sf concrete box in a high rise with zero charm in a mediocre neighborhood, for $475k, and $770/month HOA.)

[Arbitrage]

That is certainly a brutal HOA.  Is that because of things like hurricane/storm insurance? 

I wouldn't classify Asheville as HCOLA (everyone has their opinions and breakpoints, but it doesn't really compare to the major, expensive coastal metros, as I'm seeing a median price about $500k) but (looking at listings without knowing the town) I'm sure it's one of the "Zoomtowns" that have increased in price very rapidly over the past couple of years, so to those living there it probably feels HCOLA now to the locals.

I live in a Zoomtown on the other coast (Bellingham, WA), that transitioned from what I'd call MCOLA to Medium-high COLA over the past few years.  Not as expensive as Seattle, but solidly unaffordable, especially for those earning the typical salary of the area - median price now close to $700k.  Of course, I moved from Los Angeles county, where the median price is close to $900k, with the specific suburb I moved from now close to $1.2M. 

[Michael in ABQ]

That is certainly a brutal HOA.  Is that because of things like hurricane/storm insurance? 

I wouldn't classify Asheville as HCOLA (everyone has their opinions and breakpoints, but it doesn't really compare to the major, expensive coastal metros, as I'm seeing a median price about $500k) but (looking at listings without knowing the town) I'm sure it's one of the "Zoomtowns" that have increased in price very rapidly over the past couple of years, so to those living there it probably feels HCOLA now to the locals.

I live in a Zoomtown on the other coast (Bellingham, WA), that transitioned from what I'd call MCOLA to Medium-high COLA over the past few years.  Not as expensive as Seattle, but solidly unaffordable, especially for those earning the typical salary of the area - median price now close to $700k.  Of course, I moved from Los Angeles county, where the median price is close to $900k, with the specific suburb I moved from now close to $1.2M.

I have some relatives in Bellingham and a former co-worker was telling me how his daughter was looking to buy a small Craftsman-style home near downtown Bellingham several years ago. They were around $325-350k for 2-3 Bedroom homes around 1,200 SF - in many cases with questionable renovations. At this time the median price in Albuquerque was probably $250k for something in the 1,600 - 2,200 SF range. I'm not sure if his daughter bought there, but obviously would have done very well now in terms of appreciation.

[Sugaree]

Marrying a man who had both a drug problem and a Keeping-up-with-the-Joneses problem.

[rothwem]

Moving to Hawaii from upstate New York to be a public school teacher straight out of college. It sounded like an awesome adventure. In the area where I grew up, teacher salaries are very high, and competition was fierce for the job I wanted (secondary ed English). Hawaii has loads of teacher jobs and it sounded like fun. I didn't think through the implications of beginning my professional life in such an insanely HCOL area, so far away from any family or any kind of social network.

I'm still in Hawaii, and from a financial standpoint, it's still not a wise place to be as a teacher. Fortunately I've made a lot of good financial decisions while I've been here, so it's working out ok.

But was it an awesome adventure?

I would have guessed that since you are still there that it was worth the tradeoff or else you would have moved?

LOL it was more of a miserable adventure for the first two years, when I was a beginning teacher, had no money, didn't know anyone, and lived in various iffy roommate situations to try to deal with the crazy rent here. But I loved my job and I loved not dealing with the cold weather of upstate NY, so those factors kept me in Hawaii.

I tried to move to the PNW right after the recession of 2008, when the public school system furloughed us on Fridays to save money, but hiring was frozen at many school districts across the mainland, so I stayed put here. Then in 2011 I started teaching at a private school in Honolulu that paid me a lot more money, and there I found a lot of co-workers my own age who became good friends. One of them had a roommate who started dating me, and then we got married. So yeah, I kind of got sucked in. It's a nice life.

But our mortgage+HOA is bananas, and the price of groceries here means I'll never impress anyone in the MMM forums with my monthly grocery spend, so...living here is kind of dumb from a financial perspective. If I had stayed in the area where I grew up, I probably would have found a job eventually, and the cheap property (up until Covid) means I could have had a real estate empire by now with a fat New York public school teacher pension.

If it makes you feel better, we kinda did a 10% intensity version of what you did by moving to Asheville, NC.  Gorgeous scenery, amazing mountain biking, but totally dysfunctional local government, relatively low salaries and high COL.  I kinda want to leave, but we've been here four years and we have friends and a house now so I feel a little stuck.

OMG so funny! Asheville has been on my list of fantasy places to move to for years! It's HCOL? No way! I've Zillowed it many times...see this is what happens when your real estate point of reference is Honolulu. Almost anything else seems like peanuts by comparison. (We just sold our first condo, an 850 sf concrete box in a high rise with zero charm in a mediocre neighborhood, for $475k, and $770/month HOA.)

Yeah, its not NYC, Hawaii or San Fran, but its higher than most "MCOL" places I've looked at.  Pricer than Raleigh, Atlanta, Charlotte, etc. I should probably classify it as M-HCOL like @Arbitrage said in their post.  I am a bit surprised that the Zillow median home price is only $500k though.  I wonder if that includes the "Greater Asheville Area" outside of town that is admittedly cheaper but decidedly awful. 

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

Not to state the obvious, but the literal first line directly quoted from you a paragraph above:  STEM programs tend to have more course hours, but no, they aren't harder, especially not if you want to do really well.

So if you meant 'necessarily'...you forgot that part.

Anyway, getting off this thread, this kind of blanket statement followed by attempted retconning when called out on it is exactly why I don't spend a lot of time on this forum.

Maybe I'm having comprehension issues, but my statement is that the programs themselves aren't harder. Some people struggle with particular subjects and others struggle with others, but that doesn't make STEM programs harder than other programs. Obviously subjects that people struggle with are going to be harder for them. I thought that was a given.

There's just this dominant social discourse that STEM is sooooo hard and arts degrees are sooooo easy, but that just isn't true. I'll fully admit that I may not have explained myself well. But I most certainly was not trying to say what you suggested I was saying.

As for my specific point about doing really well in courses, that's assuming a student who doesn't struggle with arts vs science. The reason it easier to do well in STEM courses is because the marking is more objective. So for those who can't afford A- on their transcript, the writing-based arts courses tend to be a minefield of risk because of their more subjective marking schemes.

It's a lot easier to get A+ in courses where there are clear and inarguably answers that can earn you a grade over 90%. That's what I meant by easier to do extremely well.

You've l laid out the frustration I had with non stem courses. I got a B in freshmen English where I would write, for example a persuasive essay saying nuclear power is safe because this and this and this point with references and all that and the only feedback I would get on the paper was "no, it's not safe" with no explanations and a grade of a B. I would take a stem courses over that crap any day even though I put in more hours work in my stem courses than that English course.

[englishteacheralex]

*snip* That is certainly a brutal HOA.  Is that because of things like hurricane/storm insurance? 

Oh, no, the insurance didn't cover that stuff. It's just the price of doing business in HI. The HOA in our old building was actually about to go up to ~$900/month because of a new law about fire safety in highrise buildings.

Our new 1400 sf townhouse's HOA is $1k/month! And that's about par for HOA dues on comparable properties here. So, um, Asheville doesn't seem HCOL to me. See what I mean about moving to HI being my biggest financial mistake?

[thesis]

Just to add some thoughts on the STEM degrees:

Although I got off to a rocky start in college, I ended up finishing my degree in anthropology because it was so fascinating to me. I think this is the only reason I made it through college. But it wasn't a rigorous program by any means, and I've always wondered what I could have done if I had pushed myself harder. Strangely enough, I ended up in software development.

I'm not sure what causes the STEM bias. I think its association with engineering and, by extension, higher salaries, has given it the aura of leading to a solid middle class life, just the way earning a bachelor's degree was also once given this aura before so many people had one and it become worth much less commercially. On the other hand, I also feel like it's a national security strategy, since more people studying STEM in theory leads to more efficient bombs, or better industry, and I think most countries now understand that a good economy is some of the best national security you can have. I've always thought it was awful that countries try to compare how well their students are doing with those in other countries. When that happens, it's really not about the individual, it's about that country hoping to look better than the others. But I'm generalizing and being a bit cynical, too.

I've never known somebody with a biology degree who ended up working directly in the sciences, and I've had friends who earned engineering degrees from top schools who were still searching for a job long after they graduated. Friends in computer science who had to earn a minor in mathematics all testify to not needing that math in their jobs. This isn't to knock stem, though, it's just to say the emphasis, I think, is misplaced. Granted, I do wish I had pushed myself a little harder in the math direction, as it actually has some valuable applications in the social sciences and might have served double duty for helping me learn low-level programming (which I technically don't use on the job, but it is interesting)

[Villanelle]

Just to add some thoughts on the STEM degrees:

Although I got off to a rocky start in college, I ended up finishing my degree in anthropology because it was so fascinating to me. I think this is the only reason I made it through college. But it wasn't a rigorous program by any means, and I've always wondered what I could have done if I had pushed myself harder. Strangely enough, I ended up in software development.

I'm not sure what causes the STEM bias. I think its association with engineering and, by extension, higher salaries, has given it the aura of leading to a solid middle class life, just the way earning a bachelor's degree was also once given this aura before so many people had one and it become worth much less commercially. On the other hand, I also feel like it's a national security strategy, since more people studying STEM in theory leads to more efficient bombs, or better industry, and I think most countries now understand that a good economy is some of the best national security you can have. I've always thought it was awful that countries try to compare how well their students are doing with those in other countries. When that happens, it's really not about the individual, it's about that country hoping to look better than the others. But I'm generalizing and being a bit cynical, too.

I've never known somebody with a biology degree who ended up working directly in the sciences, and I've had friends who earned engineering degrees from top schools who were still searching for a job long after they graduated. Friends in computer science who had to earn a minor in mathematics all testify to not needing that math in their jobs. This isn't to knock stem, though, it's just to say the emphasis, I think, is misplaced. Granted, I do wish I had pushed myself a little harder in the math direction, as it actually has some valuable applications in the social sciences and might have served double duty for helping me learn low-level programming (which I technically don't use on the job, but it is interesting)

As a data point, my biology major sister (no graduate degree) spent 20 years working in a coroners office and is now [edited because the type read "not" instead of "now"] a research scientist (though from what I can tell her role now is mostly advocacy an policy-making with in the death investigation community).

But I do agree that it seems like an undergrad in STEM usually doesn't seem to go super far toward an actual "science-y" job.

[wenchsenior]

Just to add some thoughts on the STEM degrees:

Although I got off to a rocky start in college, I ended up finishing my degree in anthropology because it was so fascinating to me. I think this is the only reason I made it through college. But it wasn't a rigorous program by any means, and I've always wondered what I could have done if I had pushed myself harder. Strangely enough, I ended up in software development.

I'm not sure what causes the STEM bias. I think its association with engineering and, by extension, higher salaries, has given it the aura of leading to a solid middle class life, just the way earning a bachelor's degree was also once given this aura before so many people had one and it become worth much less commercially. On the other hand, I also feel like it's a national security strategy, since more people studying STEM in theory leads to more efficient bombs, or better industry, and I think most countries now understand that a good economy is some of the best national security you can have. I've always thought it was awful that countries try to compare how well their students are doing with those in other countries. When that happens, it's really not about the individual, it's about that country hoping to look better than the others. But I'm generalizing and being a bit cynical, too.

I've never known somebody with a biology degree who ended up working directly in the sciences, and I've had friends who earned engineering degrees from top schools who were still searching for a job long after they graduated. Friends in computer science who had to earn a minor in mathematics all testify to not needing that math in their jobs. This isn't to knock stem, though, it's just to say the emphasis, I think, is misplaced. Granted, I do wish I had pushed myself a little harder in the math direction, as it actually has some valuable applications in the social sciences and might have served double duty for helping me learn low-level programming (which I technically don't use on the job, but it is interesting)

As a data point, my biology major sister (no graduate degree) spent 20 years working in a coroners office and is not a research scientist (though from what I can tell her role now is mostly advocacy an policy-making with in the death investigation community).

But I do agree that it seems like an undergrad in STEM usually doesn't seem to go super far toward an actual "science-y" job.

Can confirm; to really be employable with a decent income in biology (as opposed to a field grunt or lab grunt), you need at least a Master's, preferably a PhD, and for some jobs even a post-Doc. 

[Sugaree]

Just to add some thoughts on the STEM degrees:

Although I got off to a rocky start in college, I ended up finishing my degree in anthropology because it was so fascinating to me. I think this is the only reason I made it through college. But it wasn't a rigorous program by any means, and I've always wondered what I could have done if I had pushed myself harder. Strangely enough, I ended up in software development.

I'm not sure what causes the STEM bias. I think its association with engineering and, by extension, higher salaries, has given it the aura of leading to a solid middle class life, just the way earning a bachelor's degree was also once given this aura before so many people had one and it become worth much less commercially. On the other hand, I also feel like it's a national security strategy, since more people studying STEM in theory leads to more efficient bombs, or better industry, and I think most countries now understand that a good economy is some of the best national security you can have. I've always thought it was awful that countries try to compare how well their students are doing with those in other countries. When that happens, it's really not about the individual, it's about that country hoping to look better than the others. But I'm generalizing and being a bit cynical, too.

I've never known somebody with a biology degree who ended up working directly in the sciences, and I've had friends who earned engineering degrees from top schools who were still searching for a job long after they graduated. Friends in computer science who had to earn a minor in mathematics all testify to not needing that math in their jobs. This isn't to knock stem, though, it's just to say the emphasis, I think, is misplaced. Granted, I do wish I had pushed myself a little harder in the math direction, as it actually has some valuable applications in the social sciences and might have served double duty for helping me learn low-level programming (which I technically don't use on the job, but it is interesting)

As a data point, my biology major sister (no graduate degree) spent 20 years working in a coroners office and is not a research scientist (though from what I can tell her role now is mostly advocacy an policy-making with in the death investigation community).

But I do agree that it seems like an undergrad in STEM usually doesn't seem to go super far toward an actual "science-y" job.

Can confirm; to really be employable with a decent income in biology (as opposed to a field grunt or lab grunt), you need at least a Master's, preferably a PhD, and for some jobs even a post-Doc.

I have a biology degree.  And a computer science degree.  For whatever reason, a lot of us who did the marine biology thing ended up in CS.  I rarely use the higher level math, but do occasionally use the principles that I learned in combinatorics, which ended up being a joke of a 300 level class (I'm still a little salty that I didn't get to take differential equations).

[Imma]

Ignorance on paying for college.  Parents aren't financially savvy, just always assumed it was normal to borrow the full cost of a 4 year university education starting at age 18 and that we'd/I'd "figure out a way to repay later".  This meant that I was not financially savvy at the time either.  My only money sense was that I knew it was bad to hold a balance on credit cards (like my parents did every month) and I wanted to avoid doing that.  It was all send to college even without much of a plan. 

Hey that bolded part was totally me too! My family was just dirt poor and thought, "Well if you go to school, you'll make money! So the loans don't matter now. By the way, can you take out a little extra for..." I was not financial savvy enough (or strong mentally enough) to say no...

So basically I had way too much student loan debt for my degree, no plan on what I was going to do with it and no natural inclination to save. But at least I somehow knew not to get credit cards. I then took too long to start saving, but taking out all those extra loans, that was a real kick in the pants when I started to get my financial house in order.

I don't regret the other choices I made about college though. While I do not use my degree in the specific sense, it certainly put me ont he path to where I am today. I just wish I'd not taken out so much debt!

I did the opposite mistake with college: was so afraid to borrow money that I worked low wage jobs full-time + while attending community college and had to drop out because I got sick. Took 2 years off to work and save after getting my lpn. Was 26 when I got my rn, and worked full time as an lpn while in school.  If I'd just borrowed money I could have started professional career at 21 and invested the extra five years of earnings and come out way ahead, plus have had an easier and more enjoyable time in college.

Yes, this was me, too.

On the other hand, we bought an extremely cheap, small, old house at the lowest point in the market after the Great Recession based on the income we earned from working in those low paid jobs we had to pay for college. I'd started saving up to buy a house and pay for college when I got my first job at 15 and I was a homeowner at 24. We paid 5 figures for our home and had 17k saved up, which was about a year's worth of income at the time. I worked days and studied nights, it's not like I had time to spend any money. Sometimes I'd do hospitality side jobs and get food there. I bought all of my food from the discount grocery store next door to the crappy apartment where I lived. Our mortgage payment is half of what we paid for that crappy apartment.

Had we taken out loans and done the "normal" student experience, we'd have earned a ton of money, but we probably hadn't been ready to buy at that point. Back in those days it was hard to find a job after college. It took a lot of people quite a few years to get a steady, well-paid fulltime career-type job. Many in our generation (young adults when the Great Recession started) were by then priced out of the housing market. We are still in the cheap old house and we still love it. We owe a lot to this place.

[Metalcat]

Ignorance on paying for college.  Parents aren't financially savvy, just always assumed it was normal to borrow the full cost of a 4 year university education starting at age 18 and that we'd/I'd "figure out a way to repay later".  This meant that I was not financially savvy at the time either.  My only money sense was that I knew it was bad to hold a balance on credit cards (like my parents did every month) and I wanted to avoid doing that.  It was all send to college even without much of a plan. 

Hey that bolded part was totally me too! My family was just dirt poor and thought, "Well if you go to school, you'll make money! So the loans don't matter now. By the way, can you take out a little extra for..." I was not financial savvy enough (or strong mentally enough) to say no...

So basically I had way too much student loan debt for my degree, no plan on what I was going to do with it and no natural inclination to save. But at least I somehow knew not to get credit cards. I then took too long to start saving, but taking out all those extra loans, that was a real kick in the pants when I started to get my financial house in order.

I don't regret the other choices I made about college though. While I do not use my degree in the specific sense, it certainly put me ont he path to where I am today. I just wish I'd not taken out so much debt!

I did the opposite mistake with college: was so afraid to borrow money that I worked low wage jobs full-time + while attending community college and had to drop out because I got sick. Took 2 years off to work and save after getting my lpn. Was 26 when I got my rn, and worked full time as an lpn while in school.  If I'd just borrowed money I could have started professional career at 21 and invested the extra five years of earnings and come out way ahead, plus have had an easier and more enjoyable time in college.

Yes, this was me, too.

On the other hand, we bought an extremely cheap, small, old house at the lowest point in the market after the Great Recession based on the income we earned from working in those low paid jobs we had to pay for college. I'd started saving up to buy a house and pay for college when I got my first job at 15 and I was a homeowner at 24. We paid 5 figures for our home and had 17k saved up, which was about a year's worth of income at the time. I worked days and studied nights, it's not like I had time to spend any money. Sometimes I'd do hospitality side jobs and get food there. I bought all of my food from the discount grocery store next door to the crappy apartment where I lived. Our mortgage payment is half of what we paid for that crappy apartment.

Had we taken out loans and done the "normal" student experience, we'd have earned a ton of money, but we probably hadn't been ready to buy at that point. Back in those days it was hard to find a job after college. It took a lot of people quite a few years to get a steady, well-paid fulltime career-type job. Many in our generation (young adults when the Great Recession started) were by then priced out of the housing market. We are still in the cheap old house and we still love it. We owe a lot to this place.

I worked full time through undergrad and volunteered and did full time school. I did really well but I had no life and got no sleep for several years. I was powered by ephedrine pills back before they were illegal and sheer anxiety.

Some mistakes aren't financial. Lol.