Author Topic: Working at a Big 4 consulting firm  (Read 7079 times)

FrugalSaver

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 832
Working at a Big 4 consulting firm
« on: October 15, 2015, 05:43:21 PM »
This is not necessarily a mustachian question, but knowing th type of people that read this site, I expect there are many people on here that can answer these questions.

I have a friend that is 38. Has an IT background and is considering going to wok at a Big 4 consulting firm.

Can you give me some perspective on what they could expect to make salary wise? 

How long until they make partner?

Once they made partner, how much they would make per year on average?

This person has been an IT director at a fortune 200 company and has been in management for 12+ years.

Thank you for your insights.

pbkmaine

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8927
  • Age: 67
  • Location: The Villages, Florida
Working at a Big 4 consulting firm
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2015, 07:32:36 PM »
Former Big Four senior manager here. Salary will vary depending on location and position hired into. Will he/she be hired as a director, or some other title? In general, partner is in no way guaranteed, and may be based upon sales ability rather than technical proficiency and experience. Before accepting a position, your friend should have a long and detailed discussion about partnership opportunities, and I don't mean a handshake and some vague promises. Get this in writing. I had a wonderful experience in the Big Four, but the hours are long, the work is demanding, and travel can be exhausting. There is constant juggling of the priorities of multiple clients. Not everyone is cut out for the life.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 12:36:27 PM by pbkmaine »

MustachianAccountant

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 433
  • Age: 45
Re: Working at a Big 4 consulting firm
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2015, 01:05:39 AM »
You can also try GoingConcern.com, which is kind of the online water cooler for Big 4 accountants. They'd probably have better info.
Just brace yourself for the cynicism.

Tetsuya Hondo

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 503
  • Location: 1960's Tokyo on the Bad Side of Town
Re: Working at a Big 4 consulting firm
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2015, 08:32:45 AM »
Regarding salaries, check out glassdoor.com or salary.com. From what I've seen in Big 4, it's fairly accurate. Partners at my old firm were rumored to make upper six figures (i.e., $700k-ish) to a million but it varied by year, how profitable the firm is, their tenure, etc. I heard a couple partners say that they honestly don't know what they make given all the variables. And, you have to buy in, which works like a loan to the firm that you have to pay off.

As pbkmaine said, making partner is not guaranteed. At my firm the typical senior manager would toil around the clock, working 70 hours, four five or six years before finding out that they are... or are not making partner. Most don't make it. Some people love it and find it rewarding - I think that much of it depends on where you're working and what group within the firm. But a lot of people just seem miserable. From what I've seen, there is no work-life balance. It's all work.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 10:32:24 AM by Tetsuya Hondo »

Sibley

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7465
  • Location: Northwest Indiana
Re: Working at a Big 4 consulting firm
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2015, 09:48:56 AM »
Accountant here, who deliberately avoided Big 4. Look up the average turnover in the first 2-3 years of a staff accountant, I want to say it's around 60% or something equally ridiculous. There's a very good reason for it.

k290

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 177
  • Age: 33
Re: Working at a Big 4 consulting firm
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2015, 11:09:17 AM »
I worked as a consultant for about 8 months at one of them and left. Hours and stress were unbearable for me. My body literally went into fight or flight mode many times. It did not suit my personality.

runningthroughFIRE

  • CM*MW 2023 Attendees
  • Bristles
  • *
  • Posts: 378
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Ohio, USA
  • As heavy as it needs to be to make you stronger
Re: Working at a Big 4 consulting firm
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2015, 11:17:53 AM »
The high turnover is by design.  They only want people who are willing to put in the long hours and are really qualified to be at the top levels.  Headhunting from these firms is also really common, and the experience is often highly valued, and the pay is quite good.  If you're willing to work really hard and put long hours in, it could be worth it.

That said, I'm an accountant who didn't go Big 4.  If I had gotten an offer from the firm I was really interested in I might have taken it, but I'm more than happy how things turned out.

someday

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Working at a Big 4 consulting firm
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2015, 05:39:08 PM »
With your friend’s experience and background, he is coming in most likely as a Director position, with the hope that he will be able to bring in new business and generate revenue to someday be considered for partner.  At that level, the promotions and ongoings are much more complex and less transparent as most big 4 professionals are in the sub 30 yrs old group who left after a few years.

I’ll give my perspective looking up, but just my perspective.  I was home grown in the big 4 consulting world and after 8 years, I left as a Manager.  There’s a big difference between the consulting side of the business and the audit side, so keep that in mind when you hear people describe their experience.  There is also a big difference between Directors on the Partner track, and Directors who are going to be lifetime Directors (they basically are very strong managers who are able to manage and deliver a project, but typically do not sell).

The consulting side is primarily driven by two revenue streams – one is audit support and additional consulting revenue that is won through external audit connections.  The other side is the “true” consulting, where the revenue is generated by partners who are considered thought leaders in a particular area and are sought out for projects either by external counsel and/or client/company contacts.
When you come in as a Director at that level, the assumption is that you have some sort of expertise that is currently in demand.  The consulting world has an everchanging hot topic that will generate large revenue, but may decline as corporations eventually bring that function in house, or consultants branch off and start doing their own consulting on the side for lower hourly rates.  As such, to stay ahead of the game, Directors and Partners are constantly figuring out new rules and regulations and its impact to their clients, and how best to advise clients on how to operationalize changes to maintain compliance.  The term thought leadership is always prevalent, and making speeches for conferences and CPE learning events is standard fare.

I’ve seen some very high level experienced Directors come in and completely bomb out.  The environment is different because the core of what you need to do is sell.  Most experienced hires are smart guys with a boatload of experience, but when it comes time to actually sell services at $500+/hour, it’s not as easy.  However, I’ve also seen a lot of experienced hires come in and succeed simply because they were an expert at their prior company in a particular niche area, and other companies in that particular industry are now going through the same problem and are itching to hear how the director’s former company handled the same issue.  In a way, consulting is kind of like an informal spying game – I have experience at XYZ company, hire me and I’ll tell you how we did things there.  Or, I’m consulting for 5 different companies, and based on my experience of looking at how all 5 companies do things, I think the best way to do things is ______. 

I think the biggest factors for success really depends on the partner that your friend will be working with, their ability to network internally within the firm to identify other partners who come across opportunities that relate to their expertise, and the go-getter attitude of establishing themselves a strong external network of clients who trust their advice.  The job is not easy and there’s a whole labyrinth to figure out all of the big 4’s internal policies and procedures.  These policies and procedures are all designed to mitigate the firm’s risk, but it is a painstaking ordeal just to even set up a client, let alone produce an engagement letter that legal will approve of (assuming they’re able to land their own clients)

This doesn’t even take into account the big 4 consulting lifestyle, which means a lot of travel, long work weeks (varies by project/client/partner), unpredictability of schedule, and overall impact on personal life. 

FrugalSaver

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 832
Re: Working at a Big 4 consulting firm
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2015, 10:06:01 PM »
Thank you for the feedback everyone.  My friend is a Director at their current company but the upside is limited as she's basically peaked out where she is with minimal reward for working harder.  Given that, it may be time to move on and they are being courted by a Big 4 company.  She's just not sure if the person / people wooing her (partners) are in it to help them get richer or if there's truly something in it for her that may be a worthy investment of the next 5 years of her career.

bigstack

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 80
Re: Working at a Big 4 consulting firm
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2015, 10:39:27 PM »
  She's just not sure if the person / people wooing her (partners) are in it to help them get richer or if there's truly something in it for her that may be a worthy investment of the next 5 years of her career.

make no mistake they are in it for themselves as should she be.
if both come out good then fine.
they believe she has contacts either at current company or current clients that they can leverage.

I put in my time at big4/5 back in the day.

Cap_Scarlet

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 292
    • EarlyRetireFree
Re: Working at a Big 4 consulting firm
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2015, 02:45:07 PM »
I'm a partner in a big 4 consulting firm and have been for the last 14 years.

As a direct admit senior manager you will be competing with others who have been in the firm a long time and already established there internal network (at least as important as external), so make sure you get as much certainty around the path to partnership as possible.  Nowadays direct admit is the big thing so its entirely possible to make it if you have good marketable skills and can generate significant revenues for the firm (meaning $3-5 million per annum - relatively easy in IT)

Partner earnings are very location dependent e.g. a partner in London or New York will make lots more than a partner in Frankfurt or Cleveland.  But the entry level for a new partner would be around $250-300k.  Again, nowadays the mega money partners are less common but a reasonably good partner should be edging towards $500k after 4-5 years.  Moving significantly above that depends on moving up the ladder but probably the top 10% of partners are making $1 million+.

After 15 years as a partner this year I will make around $650k.

Davids

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 977
  • Location: Somewhere in the USA.
Re: Working at a Big 4 consulting firm
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2015, 04:54:24 PM »
I'm a partner in a big 4 consulting firm and have been for the last 14 years.

As a direct admit senior manager you will be competing with others who have been in the firm a long time and already established there internal network (at least as important as external), so make sure you get as much certainty around the path to partnership as possible.  Nowadays direct admit is the big thing so its entirely possible to make it if you have good marketable skills and can generate significant revenues for the firm (meaning $3-5 million per annum - relatively easy in IT)

Partner earnings are very location dependent e.g. a partner in London or New York will make lots more than a partner in Frankfurt or Cleveland.  But the entry level for a new partner would be around $250-300k.  Again, nowadays the mega money partners are less common but a reasonably good partner should be edging towards $500k after 4-5 years.  Moving significantly above that depends on moving up the ladder but probably the top 10% of partners are making $1 million+.

After 15 years as a partner this year I will make around $650k.
I hope you are already FI at this point.

Cap_Scarlet

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 292
    • EarlyRetireFree
Re: Working at a Big 4 consulting firm
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2015, 06:43:22 AM »
I hope you are already FI at this point.

We are FI but not RE - suffering from OMY syndrome :)

biggrey

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: Working at a Big 4 consulting firm
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2015, 06:17:02 PM »
Another "big 4" consulting partner here.  Cap Scarlet is right on.  Advise your friend carefully and have them talk to many people before making this change. 

The consulting environment we are talking about has little or nothing to do with the former heritage of these firms.  They are now by virtue of scale and breadth and sheer delivery capacity in the top tier world of the consulting business.  They are not the same as but compete directly and efficiently with McKinsey, Kearney, Accenture, Bain and the best regional firms.  Expectations on people are extremely high and for the most part money matches.  Very few people can make it and even few make it to partner, by design.  Exceedingly few direct hires below partner are admitted to partner.  And it is an admission, not a promotion.  The business model continues to evolve and respond to competitive forces.  It is designed today to embrace new trends and solutions with higher people leverage and increasingly a much higher component of operational delivery or solutions, process and outsourcing using offshore labor.

obstinate

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1152
Re: Working at a Big 4 consulting firm
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2015, 10:50:15 PM »
My wife worked at a big 4. I don't know how long to make partner. My sense was that it could take arbitrarily long depending on how good you were at your job, and also how likeable you were for both clients and other partners.

The workload was tremendous. My wife's typical schedule was to wake up around 330-400AM on Monday, fly to some godforsaken backwater, work on her project there, then fly back Thursday night, working through the normal workday on Friday. My understanding was that pretty much 100% of the time spent away from home. So, 4x14 + 1x8 = 64 hours, plus the fact she would often have to work at home on the weekend and on Friday night.

The pay was decent-ish. Not much better than the industry job she found after, in her case.