Work Pounds Older Bodies

[foghorn]

I apologize if this article has been posted previously (It is from 2013) - but it is new to me.  If this is actually true, it is fascinating - and backs up what many of us are trying to do - RE!!


https://www.biznews.com/thought-leaders/2013/09/10/retire-at-55-and-live-to-80-work-till-youre-65-and-die-at-67-startling-new-data-shows-how-work-pounds-older-bodies?fbclid=IwAR1ti1t0hfFshHAh0aqqBbLRkw-3z_f8G63Vd9pm1O8xILh79sQv7M_v6sI

[Sonos]

That is information is both sobering and very motivating.

[tipster350]

I can confirm. I am in my late 50s, in a high stress job, and I am tired. Tired in a way that feels different than when I was younger. Every day I look at my numbers and wonder how I can hang on. I am super lean FI now, would have to make major changes to FIRE and would be in a risky position.

[Tris Prior]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately.  I've been working a lot of overtime and skipping my lunchtime walks. And maybe I'm just getting older, but I can FEEL IT in a way that I could not before when I've had similarly punishing work schedules.

I'm super creaky and starting to have some chronic pain issues and I'm certain it's from sitting in front of a computer holding a mouse for more hours than usual. (I do my best to remember to get up and stretch, and I stretch at night, but I feel like it's not enough to counteract 10+ hours a day of work). I feel like my vision's getting worse due to staring at a screen all day, even though I try to remember to look away now and then. I keep thinking this is no way to live, with any exercise just serving to undo a little of the damage we're all doing to our bodies through our sedentary jobs, instead of actually getting us more fit and healthy. If that makes sense.

Unfortunately I only came upon the idea of FIRE a few years ago and I'm in my late 40s, so I have a ways to go before I can retire.

[Wrenchturner]

On the other side of it, some older men I've spoken with really enjoy part time semi retired work.  Keeps them active and scheduled.  But I don't work in a high stress low activity environment like an office.

[Bernard]

Somebody call Warren Buffet (89), his wing man Charlie Munger (95), the President of the United States (73), and Mick Jagger (76) that they can never retire. If they do, they'll die fast!

Total B.S., that article.

[Schaefer Light]

Somebody call Warren Buffet (89), his wing man Charlie Munger (95), the President of the United States (73), and Mick Jagger (76) that they can never retire. If they do, they'll die fast!

I'm guessing those guys get a lot more fulfillment from their jobs than your average corporate worker-bee.

[tipster350]

Somebody call Warren Buffet (89), his wing man Charlie Munger (95), the President of the United States (73), and Mick Jagger (76) that they can never retire. If they do, they'll die fast!

Total B.S., that article.

I am the first to admit that I am nothing like Warren Buffet, Charlie Munger, or Mick Jagger.

So glad you found three ultra wealthy and autonomous individuals to represent all of senior citizen humanity to prove your point.

[Not There Yet]

I live close to a couple of age-restricted retirement communities and frequently see people who look like they're in their seventies and eighties working at  local grocery stores.  I can't imagine how they do it, unless they absolutely have to to survive.  I did that kind of work when I was in high school and remember how exhausting it was.  It's great motivation to avoid being in that position by planning for retirement.

[Buffaloski Boris]

Very interesting article. I’ve noticed of late that that I just don’t have the energy I had even a year ago. I’ve flirted with the idea of retiring in say a couple years. I’ve become more serious about it lately.

[Firehazard]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately.  I've been working a lot of overtime and skipping my lunchtime walks. And maybe I'm just getting older, but I can FEEL IT in a way that I could not before when I've had similarly punishing work schedules.

I'm super creaky and starting to have some chronic pain issues and I'm certain it's from sitting in front of a computer holding a mouse for more hours than usual. (I do my best to remember to get up and stretch, and I stretch at night, but I feel like it's not enough to counteract 10+ hours a day of work). I feel like my vision's getting worse due to staring at a screen all day, even though I try to remember to look away now and then. I keep thinking this is no way to live, with any exercise just serving to undo a little of the damage we're all doing to our bodies through our sedentary jobs, instead of actually getting us more fit and healthy. If that makes sense.

Unfortunately I only came upon the idea of FIRE a few years ago and I'm in my late 40s, so I have a ways to go before I can retire.

I'm 54 and FIRE'd a few months ago, save for 10-12 hours per week of part-time work.  Most of my aches and pains (and stress) have all but disappeared.  I feel like a whole new person.  I wish I would've gotten my shit together sooner and done this years earlier!

[mozar]

Article conflates correlation with causation.

[wageslave23]

I can confirm the point of the article.  My brother is in the plumbers' union and they told him the average plumber only collects something like 2 yrs pension checks. 

[former player]

People with lower earnings tend to have less autonomy at work, leading to more stress leading to worse health: there are reputable studies on this.  And people with lower earnings tend to have less capacity to save for a long retirement and so are less likely to be able to retire early. (Before anyone jumps on me, I'm not saying it's impossible, just a lot harder, and also that high earning high spending people put themselves in an analogous situation.)  65 is a common point at which pension schemes start to pay out without an early payment penalty.  Put all that together and you end up with the likely causes for the correlation described in the article: people who retire at 65 have probably had lower savings with more work stress and less choice about when to retire.

I think everyone who has worked in a large organisation will know of former colleagues who died within a year or two of retiring at the traditional retirement age, I certainly did and worried about it happening to me too.  Fortunately I FIREd at 50 9 years ago and the going looks good, but I recognise and am grateful for my good fortune.

[dcheesi]

I can confirm the point of the article.  My brother is in the plumbers' union and they told him the average plumber only collects something like 2 yrs pension checks.

Yeah, I wonder how much the job description matters in this, as well as personal temperament. Physically demanding jobs can really wear on you as you get older (or just in general). Meanwhile, office jobs aren't inherently demanding, but they can induce a lot of psychological stress in some folks. Either one could have a negative impact on someone, and as you age your reserves/resilience are somewhat depleted.

[wageslave23]

I can confirm the point of the article.  My brother is in the plumbers' union and they told him the average plumber only collects something like 2 yrs pension checks.

Yeah, I wonder how much the job description matters in this, as well as personal temperament. Physically demanding jobs can really wear on you as you get older (or just in general). Meanwhile, office jobs aren't inherently demanding, but they can induce a lot of psychological stress in some folks. Either one could have a negative impact on someone, and as you age your reserves/resilience are somewhat depleted.

Yes definitely.  My brother said that most of the people he works with smoke cigarettes and/or have a major drinking problem.  Even though they make good money, they definitely live a lower class lifestyle.  I think if you control for income, education, personal habits, and office jobs there would be a HUGE difference in the results.  The people that retired at 55 were probably upper management working desk jobs, better healthcare, more income, healthier lifestyles than those who could afford to retire at 65. 

[Just Joe]

I live close to a couple of age-restricted retirement communities and frequently see people who look like they're in their seventies and eighties working at  local grocery stores.  I can't imagine how they do it, unless they absolutely have to to survive.  I did that kind of work when I was in high school and remember how exhausting it was.  It's great motivation to avoid being in that position by planning for retirement.

That makes me think of an older store clerk here that I think has some cognitive decline happening. I had not seen her in a while until recently stopped in to buy something. Who wants to be forced by circumstances to work when any of the body or mind are in decline? That said I want to stay busy after retirement. Just stopping and sitting and vegging in front of the TV just isn't good.

[fattest_foot]

I think everyone who has worked in a large organisation will know of former colleagues who died within a year or two of retiring at the traditional retirement age, I certainly did and worried about it happening to me too.  Fortunately I FIREd at 50 9 years ago and the going looks good, but I recognise and am grateful for my good fortune.

Unfortunately, I think I've actually known more people who talked about retiring soon, but ended up dying while they were still working and never had the chance to retire.

[mm1970]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately.  I've been working a lot of overtime and skipping my lunchtime walks. And maybe I'm just getting older, but I can FEEL IT in a way that I could not before when I've had similarly punishing work schedules.

I'm super creaky and starting to have some chronic pain issues and I'm certain it's from sitting in front of a computer holding a mouse for more hours than usual. (I do my best to remember to get up and stretch, and I stretch at night, but I feel like it's not enough to counteract 10+ hours a day of work). I feel like my vision's getting worse due to staring at a screen all day, even though I try to remember to look away now and then. I keep thinking this is no way to live, with any exercise just serving to undo a little of the damage we're all doing to our bodies through our sedentary jobs, instead of actually getting us more fit and healthy. If that makes sense.

Unfortunately I only came upon the idea of FIRE a few years ago and I'm in my late 40s, so I have a ways to go before I can retire.

Same same.  Also late 40's.  In the last few weeks I've been plagued with issues.  I've been running through hip pain, without time to stretch and roll.  No lunch walks.  I stopped lifting (traveling husband, young children, my gym closed down).  Now because my lifting stopped my frozen shoulder has returned.  Also, my right arm (aka, my mouse arm) hurts at the elbow.  It's not tennis elbow, it's like a bicep strain (so says the doc) so I need extra stretching.

I'm going to have to carefully re-craft my fitness plan to deal with the hip (rest it, add some swimming, until it recovers and then be careful to do dedicated stretches and strengthening, deal with the frozen shoulder (more weights and stretching), etc.

[mm1970]

I can confirm the point of the article.  My brother is in the plumbers' union and they told him the average plumber only collects something like 2 yrs pension checks.

Yeah, I wonder how much the job description matters in this, as well as personal temperament. Physically demanding jobs can really wear on you as you get older (or just in general). Meanwhile, office jobs aren't inherently demanding, but they can induce a lot of psychological stress in some folks. Either one could have a negative impact on someone, and as you age your reserves/resilience are somewhat depleted.

Yep.  My BIL is almost 60.  He retired a number of years ago and his body is completely beat up because he had a physical job.  He's been plagued with constant pain and surgeries for 10 years or so.  Type of job matters.

Meanwhile, I work with a lot of people in their early 60s.  Some are definitely "on it" but more than half do, or would prefer, to work part time.  Their brain function, stress levels are more conducive to that.  They have time to walk, go to the gym, ride their bikes.  When you are older, everything just takes longer to do.

[Cadman]

Can confirm. There appear to be two-tracks for the 'lifers' in the F100 company I work for. You either retire after 40 years and kick the bucket shortly thereafter, or you retire, and come back as a contract employee 18 months later, resuming the same work you did under a different title because you can't stand the thought of being at home with nothing to do.

Those that got out in their 50's don't seem to have the same problem; but then I get the feeling retiring 'early' was always part of their plan and they have enough things to keep them active that they don't sit around and deteriorate in short order.

[GuitarStv]

Somebody call Warren Buffet (89), his wing man Charlie Munger (95), the President of the United States (73), and Mick Jagger (76) that they can never retire. If they do, they'll die fast!

Total B.S., that article.

I am the first to admit that I am nothing like Warren Buffet, Charlie Munger, or Mick Jagger.

So glad you found three ultra wealthy and autonomous individuals to represent all of senior citizen humanity to prove your point.

Does Warren Buffet have a manager yelling at him to do impossible things on a daily basis?  Does Mick Jagger have to get up at 6:00 every morning to beat traffic on his way in to the office, then grind out the hours until he can head home again?  Is there someone telling Charlie Munger that he can't take a day off sick, or a vacation because a new pile of work just arrived at the office?

I don't think that the average person will ever achieve the level of autonomy and control over their work and work hours that any of those three do.

[moof]

Retiring without a plan has always been a no-no.

I'd like to see an accounting of self-reported reasons for retiring.  Quite a few folks hang on until they have major medical things happening, and are "retired" by events rather than choosing to retire out of desire.  Those folks are not surprises when they health issues catch up with them.

Regardless, one should have more of a plan then to "travel more" or "fix up the house".  While fun for a stretch, they are not really plans.

One should also look hard at your marriage and make sure new or lingering problems are not catastrophic when you start spending several times as many hours together.

[PhrugalPhan]

Like others have said here it can depend greatly on whether you find satisfaction with what you are doing for a living.  As an example my mother is 75 and is self employed as a hair dresser in her home.  She works 10-20 hours/week.  And while not super rich, she hasn't started touching her 'stache yet and has been taking yearly trips to Europe for a while now.  As I have been helping her get her finances more in order these past ~5 years I asked her last year why she was still working - she certainly didn't need to any more.  Her answer was she would get bored and this helps keep her active and in decent shape.  I sure couldn't argue with that way of thinking.  She flies around like she is 40 (though she does take more naps now).

And now my GF is retired and first thing she did was get a job doing personal taxes at a national chain.  I wasn't thrilled about it, but she says she feels much more fulfilled doing that than she ever did at her high paying government job, and wouldn't consider leaving it now.

Wish I had a job I loved like they do.  For me once its time I can leave I am out the door.  At least I am keeping myself in top shape physically (I look younger than I did 15 years ago).

[Channel-Z]

Judging by the link, aerospace seems to be a toxic industry to spend a career.

[mm1970]

Retiring without a plan has always been a no-no.

I'd like to see an accounting of self-reported reasons for retiring.  Quite a few folks hang on until they have major medical things happening, and are "retired" by events rather than choosing to retire out of desire.  Those folks are not surprises when they health issues catch up with them.

Regardless, one should have more of a plan then to "travel more" or "fix up the house".  While fun for a stretch, they are not really plans.

One should also look hard at your marriage and make sure new or lingering problems are not catastrophic when you start spending several times as many hours together.

My spouse was on travel recently with people.  Had dinner with them and his boss.  One of the guys talked about how great it is to be older and "do whatever you want at work, work from home, etc."  My hubby said "you know, maybe, but I can start to see the advantage of retiring, and I can picture it now" (he's 51).  His boss kind of freaked out, because my husband is pretty critical as an employee.  But hubby said "don't worry, I have 15 years to go, I've got a 2nd grader".  Still, boss said "hey, instead of retiring at 65, maybe wait until your WIFE is 65".  My husband said "you know that only buys you 2 more years, right?"  Ha!  He thought I was much younger.

Anyway, now that we are 50-ish we can picture retirement a bit more.  Volunteering, housework, cooking, gardening, doing errands on foot, exercise.