Work fewer hours?

[CanadianStache]

Hello fellow mustachians. I'm 26, have a NW of 200k, and an income of 70k/yr pretax with little to no opportunity to grow.

This question goes out to people working 40+hr work weeks or have done so in the past. I've been considering dropping to a 4 day work week (56k/yr), and I was wondering if anyone did the same or has been thinking about doing the same thing. It'll delay my FIRE date (haven't officially set one) but I figure the trade off would be more time to go on long weekend trips while I'm still young.

If you have done something similar, thought about it, or even throught about it and didn't go through with it, please do tell. I'd like to hear peoples opinions.

[seattlecyclone]

I'm going to switch to a three-day work week (for 60% pay) in a couple of weeks. I'm excited to see how it goes. I just had a baby six months ago, and I want to have more time to spend with him and more time away from work. I do think I'm likely at FI already, but it's hard to say that for certain without at least a year to see how the spending works out as a family of three. So I see this as sort of a semi-retirement. If I like this balance of work time vs. other time better I might keep doing it indefinitely. If it doesn't go as well as I hope, I'll be in a position to walk away real soon now.

[Choices]

Some of this depends on your long term plans. Do you plan on working for a long time anyway? Do you like your job? What do you want to do when you FIRE?

Figure out your FIRE date with full time vs part time work, and see if it's worth the difference to you. Many people argue that making your job more tolerable (even by working a little less) so you can stick with it longer you'll come out ahead financially, but if you're already at FIRE then maybe it doesn't matter.

[edwardc]

From past so many years I have been working I guess 40+ hrs. Having said that I have no issues with it

[human]

To many variables. You want to work for how many years? What are your expenses? Is that nw all in a house in Vancouver? If at 26 I had had the brains you do to be saving I would have worked more and found a better paying job to quit earlier and not work at all.

[EnjoyIt]

Nothing wrong with your plans.  You are looking to go part time and that is just fine if it matches up with your goals.

Although this forum is geared toward early retirement, there is nothing wrong with early semi-retirement.  There are quite a few people here who want just that, and I am one of them.  I enjoy my profession, get paid very well for it, but I enjoy working so much more when I am doing it 2-3 days a week.  Honestly I hope that I can keep on enjoying work well into my 60s.  At some point I plan on working 3-4 days every 2 weeks. 

[happy]

I've been working part-time for 21 years, commencing when I had my first child, and I kept going that way since I liked it. I've worked variously between 2.5 -3.5 days a week - currently 3 days. Work pressures do not build up so much, and hence I enjoy it more.

I didn't know FIRE was a thing until I read ERE over 4.5 years ago. Since conversion to the ways of the mustache, I'm still working part-time. I think if I'd figured out FIRE in my 20s I'd have stayed full-time and smashed it. IF I'd found it in my 30s or later, I would have stayed part-time but spent less.

[Classical_Liberal]

I have thought extensively and run the numbers on SemiRE in varying scenarios.  It's a very viable option, one I will likely exercise relatively soon. It's up to you to choose how much you want to work and how much you need.  This forum relates to decreased consumption as much as early retirement.  If decreased consumption means someone can live off of half their income, then earning half is all you need once a solid base of FU money is in play.  Even with no additional savings and low real growth expectations, your 200K will be an impressive sum well before standard retirement age.  SemiRE offers flexibility, if one stays current in a field part time it's easier to ramp up work if life plans change in the future.

Generally someone asks a question like this because they are dissatisfied.  My opinion, figure out how much is "enough" for you, run some numbers and start enjoying life more as soon as possible.   Good luck & let us know what you decide!

[happy]

Working part-time does have other benefits such as classic liberal mentioned - you can usually find full-time work again much more easily if you need to. It means also that  you use less sick days, and if you are lucky, your employer might let you change your day/s off if you have a particular engagement on a particular day. You can do the grocery shopping when everyone else is at work and access other service easily on weekdays and so on. And yes , have a life :)

[Playing with Fire UK]

In the experience of my colleagues, working a salaried job at an 80% timetable means about 95% of the workload for 80% pay (plus tax benefits). It is only when you drop to 60% that your workload drops significantly. This doesn't count if your work is hours-based or results based.

Would it be feasible to ask to work from home so that you could be location independent for a long weekend? Or buy some more vacation days?

My BIL managed to negotiate a 40 hour work week over 4 days for 100% pay. Jealous.

In general, I think delaying FIRE to enjoy your work life balance more is a solid move, but working 80% isn't necessarily the right way to do it.

[CHF]

I will reduce to 80% in August. My interpretation is that I'll have a 20% reduction of income and a 50% inrease in free time (3 day weekend).

[dandarc]

Had an idea pop in to my head for 3-5 years from now when we'll be much better off, but not quite at our number yet.

Try to negotiate 2 weeks off every-other month.  Roughly 3/4 time.  Paid hourly 1099, so money should work for everyone involved, just not sure if the powers that be would go for an arrangement like this.  Upsides and downsides to being highly-regarded at the office.

[happy]

In the experience of my colleagues, working a salaried job at an 80% timetable means about 95% of the workload for 80% pay (plus tax benefits). It is only when you drop to 60% that your workload drops significantly. This doesn't count if your work is hours-based or results based.

Depending on your type of job this may be the case in my experience.  But if you go part-time one of the difficulties is that you need to maintain your boundaries with regard to work load. No-one else will do it for you.  You have to develop a good sense of what is reasonable in the time period, how many extra hours you will do for free etc. If possible work out what positions lend themselves to part-time work that can be compartmentalised and head towards those, or if thats not possible ensure someone is covering your job on the days you are not there. You also have to be able to say no. Otherwise you will end up being paid part time and working full-time. A friend of mine naively negotiated to do a manager level job 4 days a week. She was surprised to find that they called her not only on her day off, but after hours 24/7 if necessary. Some jobs just aren't workable part-time.

[Classical_Liberal]

I also think part time work has social advantages. You still see work people, you aren't leaning too heavily on still-working friends to socialise. New dates or new friends see you as lucky, not weird.

I agree with this wise comment.  This forum tends to have a higher percentage of introverts than society as a whole.  As a result, responses tend to undervalue the social aspect of employment.  Work has been an important social outlet for my entire life.  I'm not saying there aren't other ways to fulfill social needs, simply that  working is a legitimate way for many to do so with the side benefit of income.  Coworkers are likely to have, at least some, similar interests and can evolve into meaningful relationships outside of work.  For many who have more extroverted personalities a cold turkey retirement could be a bit of a shock to the system.  Personally, going to work forces me out of my occasional social laziness and provides energy from interaction with peers.

A friend of mine naively negotiated to do a manager level job 4 days a week. She was surprised to find that they called her not only on her day off, but after hours 24/7 if necessary. Some jobs just aren't workable part-time.

I bet this could become a reality for many attempting to cut back.  Certainly the profession and the specific job is a huge consideration in a SemiRE plan.  Having the ability to negotiate a flexible schedule and/or limiting the parts of a job that are less fulfilling are probably key to long term success.

[pdxmonkey]

I have considered this, but my current rationale is that I need to get my mortgage paid first. With automation around the corner and minimum wage on the rise I plan to earn while the earning is good. I'm one of the ones automating stuff so I'm at lower risk, but if it screed up the whole economy there's no telling what will happen while we figure out what the new world order looks like. Millions of jobs are going to disappear and as a society we're going to have to figure out what to do about it.

[JrDoctor]

I'm planning on going part time when (if) I make consultant (attending), it simply does not make sense while training as the pay is nothing like a consultant early on, it extends training hugely and many Less than full time trainees end up doing pretty big hours still, just unpaid.  Probably my FIRE plan is full time training and working for 15 years, then part time gigs for five years and then consider working abroad/locum gigs or anything which takes my interest. 

[BoonDogle]

CanadianStache, would it be feasible for you to convert your pay into an hourly rate so that you have the flexibility to work more or less during certain times of the year?  Probably a good idea to still set boundaries so that you are in control and reserve the right to say no.

My plan is to work part time after FIRE on an hourly rate where I set me own schedule.  That way I can work 4 or 5 days some weeks and none other weeks.  They have done it with the last 2 partners that retired so I think I can negotiate it.

[HappyMargo]

... I was wondering if anyone did the same or has been thinking about doing the same thing.

If you have done something similar, thought about it, or even throught about it and didn't go through with it, please do tell. I'd like to hear peoples opinions.

I did this! 
Six months ago, I went from 5 days/ week at 50+ hours work down to 4 days/ week for 32 hours.
LOVING it!   I sleep better, get more done around the house, have time for enjoyable hobbies & can take off for long-weekend adventures quite easily! 

Once mortgage is paid off in full, DH will completely RE.   I plan to then cut down even further to just 2 days/ week.  This will still bring in enough $ to allow stash to grow, or we can use it to travel more.

My job in healthcare is set up splendidly for semi-ER.  I can do part-time or per diem or travel assignments or agency.   Loads of flexible options (best decision I ever made was returning to college for 2nd degree & total career change!)

BONUS:  As a slightly introverted individual, I enjoy getting "shoved out of my social laziness" &  forced to interact with people at work (good coworkers!) 

[Cap_Scarlet]

I am just about to do this.

I've taken the decision to drop to 70% which is a bit of a weird number but will give me successive four day and three day weeks, with the potential for a five-day weekend depending how I organize the days.

We are already FI but I am not yet mentally ready to RE so planning to see how this works out but very much expecting this to last no more than 2-3 years.

[bacchi]

I've been part-time for about 2 years. I was ~30/5 but I'm now ~20/3, giving me a 4 day weekend. It's enough to pay expenses and save a little.

I'm hourly, which is probably best in a situation that goes from 40+ to fewer. If someone calls on a Friday morning, I'm not happy about it but at least I'm being paid. If I'm busy, I can ignore the call/email.

[MisterTwoForty]

I plan to switch to a part time schedule once I'm in the year I plan to FIRE. 

[startingsmall]

I recently cut back from 4 days/wk (38 hrs) to an alternating schedule of 3/4 day weeks (average 33 hrs/wk). This is the lowest that I can go while maintaining FT benefits, so I'll stay here for now.... but it was worth every bit of the 12% paycut and I'd cut back further if possible!! 

I'm currently using the newly-found hours for freelance writing (much more enjoyable than my FT job AND a higher hourly pay rate), so no delay in my FIRE date.... but I would have gladly taken the cut even without freelance work. 

[CanadianStache]

Fortunately I'm in a high demand skilled trade job which can't be anything else but hourly pay. I've decided that I'll either ask for a pay raise(shorten path to RE), cut down my hours(extend path to RE by 5 years but enjoy my youth), or find a new place of employment. Thanks for all your input everyone. I enjoyed reading all of it.

Also for the guy that asked. I'm not in real estate. I live in Vancouver, and I wouldn't even dream about taking a mortgage in the current environment. I'm 90% in s&p 500 right now with the other 10% in a savings account generating 1.3%

[afam]

Hello, I am from Germany, 26 years old, working in a Bank as Controller. I am also thinking about cutting my hours/days from 40/5 to 32/4.

The Problem is, that I have no idea how to communicate it, since something like this is extremly weird in this specific Bank. Either they laugh at me or ask me if I wouldn't have enough work to do.

Do you got any advise how to start this conversation?

I already thought about sneaking some newspaper articles between their daily work about 'Working 4 days a week' like in Inception. (just joking)

[Tjat]

I wouldn't have prioritized 3 day weekends @ 26. I viewed those years as work to get promoted and bank as many vacation days as possible. Reason being is I had no real thing of value to do on days off back then. Now with a family, I think a 4 day week would be much more appreciated.

[afam]

Thank for your answer. It is not possible to save vacation days. You get 30 per year and have to spend them in this year, otherwise you just lose them without any compensation.

I am investing in the stock market of germany since I am 18, my expenses are extremly low and I would take the freetime either to work (something where you have to work with ur body) another 'minijob'  which is taxfree or just the time to focus on daytrading a bit. If I cut 20% worktime, I will only lose 15% netcash after taxes. It wouldnt be any time wasted with 3 days weekend.

So there is still the question, how did you tell your supervisor about a 3 days weekend?

[brute]

We get a 9/80 schedule at work. So, 9 hour days M-Th, 8 hours on friday, off the other. Since I would normally get in a little early and stay a little late, I'm only at work maybe 30 minutes a day than I would otherwise be, plus 3 day weekend frequently. Pretty good deal for me.

[Rollin]

Hello fellow mustachians. I'm 26, have a NW of 200k, and an income of 70k/yr pretax with little to no opportunity to grow.

This question goes out to people working 40+hr work weeks or have done so in the past. I've been considering dropping to a 4 day work week (56k/yr), and I was wondering if anyone did the same or has been thinking about doing the same thing. It'll delay my FIRE date (haven't officially set one) but I figure the trade off would be more time to go on long weekend trips while I'm still young.

If you have done something similar, thought about it, or even throught about it and didn't go through with it, please do tell. I'd like to hear peoples opinions.

I switched to what we call a compressed work week (sounds like what Brute is doing) that allows me to have every other Friday off. While not the same as what you are referring to with less hours (I still worked 80 hours every two weeks) it was (and is until FIRE next month!) awesome. Even though I put in an extra hour a day it still is very nice to have those three day weekend so often.

[MrMoogle]

One other benefit is YOLO.  You're trading guaranteed days off now, for possible days off in the future.  Who knows how long we will live?

The downside is if you were starting from nothing, this could mean working a lot longer.
Say you are saving 60% (ie 3 days out of 5).  If you cut to 4 days a week, you'd be saving 50% (2 days out of 4).  This would change your required working years from 12.5 to 17.  Although I guess it wouldn't change the number of days you work very much: 3125 to 3500, or about 10% more days.

Since you already have some stache, I bet it won't affect it too much.  You're more relying on it compounding. 

I think about it a lot, but I haven't made any moves to implement it.

[afam]

One other benefit is YOLO.  You're trading guaranteed days off now, for possible days off in the future.  Who knows how long we will live?

The downside is if you were starting from nothing, this could mean working a lot longer.
Say you are saving 60% (ie 3 days out of 5).  If you cut to 4 days a week, you'd be saving 50% (2 days out of 4).  This would change your required working years from 12.5 to 17.  Although I guess it wouldn't change the number of days you work very much: 3125 to 3500, or about 10% more days.

Since you already have some stache, I bet it won't affect it too much.  You're more relying on it compounding. 

I think about it a lot, but I haven't made any moves to implement it.

Thank four your answer. How old are you and for how many years do you think about 3 days weekend and what is your occupation?

[WerKater]

Hello, I am from Germany, 26 years old, working in a Bank as Controller. I am also thinking about cutting my hours/days from 40/5 to 32/4.

The Problem is, that I have no idea how to communicate it, since something like this is extremly weird in this specific Bank. Either they laugh at me or ask me if I wouldn't have enough work to do.

Do you got any advise how to start this conversation?

I already thought about sneaking some newspaper articles between their daily work about 'Working 4 days a week' like in Inception. (just joking)

Just don't make it too complicated. Do you have a well-defined supervisor? Just ask him for a meeting about your future working schedule and then tell him straight out. Make it clear that you are willing to accomodate them by giving sufficient notice and by working out a schedule that works for both sides.

And do you work in Germany? If yes: be aware that you probably have a legal right to reduce your hours:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/tzbfg/BJNR196610000.html (see § 8 "Verringerung der Arbeitszeit")
[and by "be aware", I really mean only "be aware". Don't pull this card at the first meeting]

[MrMoogle]

One other benefit is YOLO.  You're trading guaranteed days off now, for possible days off in the future.  Who knows how long we will live?

The downside is if you were starting from nothing, this could mean working a lot longer.
Say you are saving 60% (ie 3 days out of 5).  If you cut to 4 days a week, you'd be saving 50% (2 days out of 4).  This would change your required working years from 12.5 to 17.  Although I guess it wouldn't change the number of days you work very much: 3125 to 3500, or about 10% more days.

Since you already have some stache, I bet it won't affect it too much.  You're more relying on it compounding. 

I think about it a lot, but I haven't made any moves to implement it.

Thank four your answer. How old are you and for how many years do you think about 3 days weekend and what is your occupation?

I'm a 31 year old engineer.  3 day weekends would be the same as working 4 days.  It depends on what your savings rate is now.  I just came up with an example to show with numbers what the impact would be.  It certainly is more complicated than what I put down, but it should be in the ballpark.