Will we ever see an end to daylight saving time/clock adjustment nationwide???

[Sojourner]

I don't care if we stay in standard time or daylight saving time...or some other time for that matter.  I just would like to see an end to this clock adjustment twice a year thing.  And I don't mean having to move to another state.

Arizona gets it, why not all the other states?

What do you suppose it would take to end this curse?

Your thoughts on the subject? 

[FIRE Artist]

My province looked at this last year and voted against it because it would put us 2 hrs off BC for half the year. It is clear that this change has to be a federal level decision as you mentioned, I see no scenario in Canada where this will issue will get federal attention in the near term. I suspect th US feds are the same.

[Morning Glory]

I hate the clock switching thing too.

[DreamFIRE]

Florida is trying to stay on DST all year long, and their lawmakers passed it already, but that doesn't make it so just yet:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/08/us/daylight-saving-time-florida.html

That's what I would prefer - DST all year long.  I always hate turning the clocks back in the fall.

[calimom]

But…the CHILDREN! We need to adjust the time so they can work on the farms. Oh, wait….

[nnls]

I live in Western Australia and we dont have daylights savings, a few years ago we as a state got to vote on it, and a small majority voted no. There are so many people who complain here we dont have it.

I voted no because I dont like it and people accuse me of being set in my ways and not liking change, but its interesting to me that people who have lived with it also dont seem to like it)

[mspym]

On the other side of the coin, I appear to be part of a small minority that really really *likes* the switch over, both ways. It fits in with my body's natural clock. In Spring, I am naturally waking up earlier and earlier and the switch is easy, while in Autumn (right now) I impatiently waiting the change back as my body wants to hibernate and getting up in the morning is increasingly hard. It always feels very natural to me. 

[EmFrugal]

Ugh, my body definitely does not naturally adjust to clock changes. My entire family has been destroyed by this latest switch. My kids, who are normally happy morning risers, are fast asleep when we go to wake them. And I am falling apart because my body can't adjust. I personally think it's terrible for your health. And I hate it. Just pick a time and leave the clocks alone. The people who wake naturally can continue waking naturally without affecting the rest of us ;)

[teen persuasion]

I like shifting way-too-early summer dawn so we have more usable summer evening daylight, but the start of DST is too early in the calendar year.

  We *just* got to dawn arriving before 7am, so that the school kids aren't waiting for the bus in the dark (while watching packs of 4 legged predators in the farm fields next door).  Now dawn is back to after school starts, again.  There will probably be another spate of deer collisions on our road during the morning commute, too, as it shifts back thru the predawn again.

Don't begin DST until dawn will remain before 7am at least, preferably before 6:30am.

[ncornilsen]

I wish we'd stay on DST year round. If we did, I'd get 45 minutes of daylight at the end of the day in the winter... instead of darkness when I go to work, and darkness when I leave.

Otherwise, I'm happy with it as-is. I have stuff to do after work.

[ketchup]

It's definitely a relic of a previous era.  It just feels arbitrary at this point.

I agreed to wake up at 4:15am and drive somewhere Sunday morning before realizing which Sunday that was... and the destination was one time zone over, and I didn't reset the clock in my car yet...  I had no idea what time it really was all morning.

[YttriumNitrate]

For many, many years Indiana just stayed on Standard Time. Aside from TV shows starting at different times during different parts of the year, it was wonderful. The DST supporters claimed we we losing business because it made working remotely with Hoosiers a bit more difficult. I expect Florida will get the same push-back.

[kayvent]

As someone who lives in Canada, I'd prefer if we ditched standard time instead of daylight savings. This would cause some pain points though. Where I live and work, much of our economic activity is spurred on by the eastern US states and the western states and Europe. So if we kept DST, we'd go from 1-4 hours ahead to 2-5hr ahead for the USA (although we'd get better overlap with Europe). In other words, I think we'd need the USA and west Europe to adopt DST-only simultaneously.

So this decision really needs to be made on an international level.

[Just Joe]

On the other side of the coin, I appear to be part of a small minority that really really *likes* the switch over, both ways. It fits in with my body's natural clock. In Spring, I am naturally waking up earlier and earlier and the switch is easy, while in Autumn (right now) I impatiently waiting the change back as my body wants to hibernate and getting up in the morning is increasingly hard. It always feels very natural to me.

And just as the days get shorter in the fall, the time shifts eliminating any chance of arriving at home with any daylight left. Its dark. What's left to do but go inside?

Kills my motivation to bicycle to and from work. Puts all the daylight at the start of the day when I'm stuck inside anyhow - first getting ready for work, then being at work. When my time is mine, its dark.

When our kids are older I've considered shifting my work hours to maximize the evening daylight. Come in at 5AM and work until 2PM or similar.

[EricEng]

And just as the days get shorter in the fall, the time shifts eliminating any chance of arriving at home with any daylight left. Its dark. What's left to do but go inside?

Kills my motivation to bicycle to and from work. Puts all the daylight at the start of the day when I'm stuck inside anyhow - first getting ready for work, then being at work. When my time is mine, its dark.

My thoughts as well.  What little daylight there is during winter is stolen by this shift unless I want to get up at 5-6 am and do things before work, but no one else would be up then.  I don't mind going to work in the dark, but hate coming home in the dark.  Makes it feel like such a longer day.

[GreenSheep]

Having recently lived in Arizona for 10 years, and now living in another state where there IS daylight savings time, I hate it. I heard on a Freakonomics podcast that there are more car accidents on the day after we lose an hour, and in trying to find a link for that, I found this link, which indicates that there are even more consequences than car wrecks:

https://www.livescience.com/40903-daylight-saving-time-affects-your-body.html

[NoStacheOhio]

Honestly, I don't care what they pick, I just hate the changeover. It's dark all the time in winter anyway, and trying to adjust our family's rhythm for the time changes is brutal. Especially in the Spring.

[Jrr85]

I wish we'd stay on DST year round. If we did, I'd get 45 minutes of daylight at the end of the day in the winter... instead of darkness when I go to work, and darkness when I leave.

Otherwise, I'm happy with it as-is. I have stuff to do after work.

This is my problem with it.  In the winter I'm driving to work in darkness or first light and then getting home in the dark.  Just 30 minutes of light after getting home would be a big improvement.  And driving to work in the dark as opposed to dark or first light is functionally no difference.   

[Scandium]

My main problem with DST is that everyone calls it Daylight savingS time. There's no S!! SAVING! No plural!
Say it: Daylight.saving.time.

[MrThatsDifferent]

I don't care if we stay in standard time or daylight saving time...or some other time for that matter.  I just would like to see an end to this clock adjustment twice a year thing.  And I don't mean having to move to another state.

Arizona gets it, why not all the other states?

What do you suppose it would take to end this curse?

Your thoughts on the subject?

You need to watch the most current season of the tv show VEEP.  It has a Trumpian character that stakes his whole political focus on fighting daylight savings time.

[FireHiker]

I absolutely fucking hate it, and would prefer to just be on standard time the entire year. I've spent the last month training my very non-morning person self to get up by 6am to run before work. I hate it, but running before work is much more pleasant to me than after work. Now it's fucking dark at 6am. My 6 year old was an absolute demon from hell this morning, thanks to the time change. We are all exhausted and cranky. Being light later in the evening just makes bedtime harder with the younger kids. I don't know that I have ever wanted to be retired as much as I did this morning when we were trying to pry the 6 year old out of the car at the before-school care (school starts at 9). If I didn't have to work I could have let her sleep in and not had any of that heinous drama this morning.

I rarely take advantage of the fact that we're "allowed" to swear here, but I needed it this morning, thanks!!

[KMMK]

I don't care which, but I wish they'd just pick one. Sadly that got voted down last year so we're probably stuck with it for longer. I feel like the whiny child - but Saskatchewan doesn't have to change their clocks, why do we?!

[Prairie Stash]

I don't care which, but I wish they'd just pick one. Sadly that got voted down last year so we're probably stuck with it for longer. I feel like the whiny child - but Saskatchewan doesn't have to change their clocks, why do we?!

Maybe Saskatchewan has smarter people? They commisioned a study in the 60's that figured out a logical solution, then used it. It turns out people like daylight savings time, they dislike moving the clocks, so permanent DST. Has anyone figured out what makes the Fall back so great, I've heard a lot of summer arguments but not much rationale for switching back in the fall, other then it allows the switch in the spring...

There was talk of a referendum poll once in Sask, but it was called off because it was a waste of money...and daylight time.

[teen persuasion]

Has anyone figured out what makes the Fall back so great, I've heard a lot of summer arguments but not much rationale for switching back in the fall, other then it allows the switch in the spring..   

Probably the fact that dawn is nearly at 8am when we fall back, and would be approaching 9am by late December.  It's really hard to get out of a nice warm bed in mid winter hours before the sun comes up, like Firehiker's little one.

[Missy B]

Those of you who are presently suffering from the physical effects of the time change will be thrilled to learn that the reason we do it is... wait for it... because it increases energy consumption.

The delightful book Spring Forward: The Annual Madness of Daylight Savings explains how all the commonly spouted reasons for daylight savings (the farmers! energy savings!) are wrong, and in fact, has much to do with the fact that an extra hour of daylight in the evening greatly increases
a) gasoline consumption (because it's fun to go for a drive after work) and
b) propane consumption (because it's fun to have people over for a barbecue, but not in the dark)

The oil and gas industry lobbied for it for decades. So, will we ever get rid of daylight savings? Sure, when the oil lobby loses its power. Or hell freeze over.

https://www.amazon.ca/Spring-Forward-Annual-Madness-Daylight/dp/1582434956/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1521002030&sr=8-3&keywords=spring+forward

[lost_in_the_endless_aisle]

If it actually came down to it, I would murder standard time proponents whenever necessary. Daylight Saving Time year round!

[Raenia]

I couldn't care less if we're on ST or DST, but for the love of all that's holy, can we please just pick one and stick with it?  This semi-annual disruption of sleep schedules is awful.  Killing my productivity at work this week, for sure.

[I'm a red panda]

Doesn't make a difference to me. It's dark when I go to work most mornings either way.

[Morning Glory]

Me too, but now my kids stay up an hour later

[koshtra]

Change the clocks if you must, but for God's sake don't do it by an hour at a time. We have the technology to make the change gradual, synching to a master clock when necessary. If we really can't handle the fact that our planet is tilted and we have to pretend it's not.

I'd rather just leave the damn clock alone and let businesses change working hours if they want to.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

I couldn't care less if we're on ST or DST, but for the love of all that's holy, can we please just pick one and stick with it?  This semi-annual disruption of sleep schedules is awful.  Killing my productivity at work this week, for sure.

Same.  I had a great morning routine so far this year, but this recent clock adjustment has killed that for me.  Trying to scale everything back 10 minutes a day so I'm good to go by this weekend, but why is all this necessary?  Just keep the clocks the same.

[Tris Prior]

It's been, what, four days and I STILL fucking have jetlag from this stupid time change. I have barely been able to drag my carcass out of bed in the morning and I'm not tired when I'm supposed to be at night. It also worsens my insomnia.

DST can go straight to hell.

Related: Can we all agree to ban the phrase "you look tired" from the workplace, unless it's immediately followed with "so why don't you take the rest of the day off with pay and we'll do your work for you"?

[wageslave23]

I'm in favor of DST all year round, because the only usable sunlight to me is after 4:30pm.  I don't care whether its light or dark for the 20 mins I drive to work in the morning.  I'd gladly trade that for an extra hour of sunlight after work to go on a bike ride, work in the yard, etc.  But either way you are going to have issues if you don't change times, such sunrise not until 8 am or sunrise at 4:30 am.  Instead of complaining about the time change though, how about figuring out a personal solution like wake up 30 mins before you need to in the winter.  Give yourself a buffer in life :)

[NoStacheOhio]

Instead of complaining about the time change though, how about figuring out a personal solution like wake up 30 mins before you need to in the winter.  Give yourself a buffer in life :)

I already allow plenty of time to get everyone ready in the morning. The problem becomes losing actual quality time in the evening because we go to bed at 9:30.

[Cycling Stache]

Florida is trying to stay on DST all year long, and their lawmakers passed it already, but that doesn't make it so just yet:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/08/us/daylight-saving-time-florida.html

That's what I would prefer - DST all year long.  I always hate turning the clocks back in the fall.

I'm in Florida, and I'm a fan of the plan.  While I do almost all of my cycling in the morning and it will be darker for weekday rides, I find the sunlight more enjoyable after work. 

What's interesting is the machinations required to make this happen.  States are allowed to opt out of daylight savings, but the only way currently to get the equivalent of full-time daylight savings is to move forward a time zone (which requires an Act of Congress), then opt out of daylight savings.  That means the time would be the same as now (and matches the rest of the East Coast) 8 months out of the year during the daylight savings time period, and then Florida will be one hour ahead of the East Coast the other four months (during the standard time period).  Otherwise, it seems like they're just waiting for Congress to change its daylight savings time policy to allow for the option of opting in permanently.

There's also the interesting wrinkle that a small portion of west Florida is currently in the central time zone, and that portion will shift to the eastern time zone. 

I have no idea how likely Congress is to approve this (last article I read seemed skeptical), but it really only has an effect between November and February.  Curious to see how it turns out!

[FireHiker]

If it actually came down to it, I would murder standard time proponents whenever necessary. Daylight Saving Time year round!

Wow, that seems a little extreme. I hate DST but I have no need to murder someone who feels otherwise.

[lizzzi]

Another jet lag sufferer here. It's hard to get up in the morning, and I'm not tired for bed at night. My small dog can't figure it out either. For some reason, I don't mind "fall back." It's cosy--like going into hibernation or something. But I have major problems with "spring forward." I've lived in two places that don't change their clocks--Arizona, and the Island of Guam. And you know what? Life goes on just fine.

Down with changing the clocks twice a year!!!  Boooooooooo!

[Jrr85]

Florida is trying to stay on DST all year long, and their lawmakers passed it already, but that doesn't make it so just yet:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/08/us/daylight-saving-time-florida.html

That's what I would prefer - DST all year long.  I always hate turning the clocks back in the fall.

I'm in Florida, and I'm a fan of the plan.  While I do almost all of my cycling in the morning and it will be darker for weekday rides, I find the sunlight more enjoyable after work. 

What's interesting is the machinations required to make this happen.  States are allowed to opt out of daylight savings, but the only way currently to get the equivalent of full-time daylight savings is to move forward a time zone (which requires an Act of Congress), then opt out of daylight savings.  That means the time would be the same as now (and matches the rest of the East Coast) 8 months out of the year during the daylight savings time period, and then Florida will be one hour ahead of the East Coast the other four months (during the standard time period).  Otherwise, it seems like they're just waiting for Congress to change its daylight savings time policy to allow for the option of opting in permanently.

There's also the interesting wrinkle that a small portion of west Florida is currently in the central time zone, and that portion will shift to the eastern time zone. 

I have no idea how likely Congress is to approve this (last article I read seemed skeptical), but it really only has an effect between November and February.  Curious to see how it turns out!

If Congress doesn't approve it, I'd like to see Florida simply direct all of its state offices to move to permanent DST hours.  So when everybody else falls back, they essentially start opening an hour earlier and closing an hour earlier.  It'd be interesting to see whether private business would follow.  I bet if the schools moved an hour ahead, they would, and then you'd just be waiting for federal agencies and offices in the state to move over, and I suspect their employees would demand it, especially those in the northern h alf of the state who had to watch other people get daylight at the end of the day in the winter while they go to work and come home in the dark. 

That could potetnially be pretty disruptive though, so I would understand them not doing it. 

[Prairie Stash]

Has anyone figured out what makes the Fall back so great, I've heard a lot of summer arguments but not much rationale for switching back in the fall, other then it allows the switch in the spring..   

Probably the fact that dawn is nearly at 8am when we fall back, and would be approaching 9am by late December.  It's really hard to get out of a nice warm bed in mid winter hours before the sun comes up, like Firehiker's little one.

During winter solstice we get 8 hours of daylight (on winter solstice, assuming noon is the midpoint, sunrise is 8 AM). By that argument, shouldn't we have reverse DST and move the sunrise to 7 AM on winter solstice?  If reverse DST sounds weird, that's how DST sounds to the rest of the world. Its a partial solution to a problem that doesn't actually fix the problem.

Getting out of bed is a pain, a good reason to FIRE. One day soon I hope we can all avoid getting out of bed before sunrise.

[clutchy]

I don't care if we stay in standard time or daylight saving time...or some other time for that matter.  I just would like to see an end to this clock adjustment twice a year thing.  And I don't mean having to move to another state.

Arizona gets it, why not all the other states?

What do you suppose it would take to end this curse?

Your thoughts on the subject?

 

I like it, we get more summer evening hours. 

that's more time for me to go running in the evenings after the kids are in bed.

[alanB]

I love it, the more time changes the better in my opinion.  It is fun to live in a place with seasonal variation and seemingly inexplicable time changes.  If you don't like it move to Ecuador!  ;P

[simonsez]

I am curious about the time zone map.  Why are parts of Oregon and Kansas in Mountain time?  Why doesn't the Central time zone follow the Wabash/Ohio/Mississippi going down or the west side of Ohio going up (depending if you are making it larger or smaller)?

I'd probably even be fine with time zones built more along the 15 degree meridians.

[Jrr85]

I am curious about the time zone map.  Why are parts of Oregon and Kansas in Mountain time?  Why doesn't the Central time zone follow the Wabash/Ohio/Mississippi going down or the west side of Ohio going up (depending if you are making it larger or smaller)?

I'd probably even be fine with time zones built more along the 15 degree meridians.

I believe the original carve up was partly related to getting time standardized for railroad operations, and the lines were drawn to avoid, where possible, putting nearby communities in different time zones, especially if they were going to be the only nearby community on the different time zone. 

[koshtra]

Yes, the whole time zone thing was an adjustment to the railroad era. Before that, local noon was when the sun was highest in the sky during the day on that particular meridian, and you set your watch by the village clock, and the fact that it was ten minutes different from the clocks in a town fifty miles west didn't trouble anyone much.

Then people got used to "noon" meaning "whenever the clock hits twelve, regardless of where the sun is," and at that point we were ripe for horological abuse :-)

[DreamFIRE]

[kayvent]

I couldn't care less if we're on ST or DST, but for the love of all that's holy, can we please just pick one and stick with it?  This semi-annual disruption of sleep schedules is awful.  Killing my productivity at work this week, for sure.

I prefer the term biannual :/

If it actually came down to it, I would murder standard time proponents whenever necessary. Daylight Saving Time year round!

Wow, that seems a little extreme. I hate DST but I have no need to murder someone who feels otherwise.

Let me give you a modest proposal. In December, the sun sets before I finish work. It rises after I arrive for work. In November and January, I get 19 mins on average during my work week. Anyone who desires anything less than DST all year long deserves the gallows.

[jlcnuke]

I found this interesting https://www.timesofisrael.com/florida-jews-make-11th-hour-push-to-stop-all-year-daylight-saving-time/

Personally, I think it's a waste to change the clocks twice a year and I hope that Marco Rubio's proposed legislation to just stay on DST goes through.

[Jrr85]

I found this interesting https://www.timesofisrael.com/florida-jews-make-11th-hour-push-to-stop-all-year-daylight-saving-time/

Personally, I think it's a waste to change the clocks twice a year and I hope that Marco Rubio's proposed legislation to just stay on DST goes through.

That is interesting.  But obviously a lot of orthodox jewish people already live in areas where people are starting work and/or school in the dark for much of the year, so it doesn't seem like something that's insurmountable.   

[FireHiker]

Let me give you a modest proposal. In December, the sun sets before I finish work. It rises after I arrive for work. In November and January, I get 19 mins on average during my work week. Anyone who desires anything less than DST all year long deserves the gallows.

But you get to live in Canada where you have reasonable health care...guess actual daylight year round (just not right now when I run before work) is a trade off I get for living in So Cal. If I could choose though (stuck here for the time being, regardless of how I feel about it), I'd choose Canada and darkness these days!

I could live with it being DST year round, although I'd prefer standard time year round. Right now I'd take either over the ridiculous switching back and forth twice a year.

[kayvent]

Let me give you a modest proposal. In December, the sun sets before I finish work. It rises after I arrive for work. In November and January, I get 19 mins on average during my work week. Anyone who desires anything less than DST all year long deserves the gallows.

But you get to live in Canada where you have reasonable health care...guess actual daylight year round (just not right now when I run before work) is a trade off I get for living in So Cal.

Canada has less than six MRI machines per million people. Sub-240. That's less than some USA cities. Americans have a system they want. They can get all the scans and tests they want in a timely fashion because cost is not a consideration. Canada has a system we want. We don't mind waiting very long (we're polite and patient) and even not getting as many treatments because cost is the predominant consideration. Both systems are reasonable for the criteria that their populace actually want. Sorry, pet peeve.

Had to look up what 'So Cal' is. Y'all are pretty close to the equator (relatively speaking). I see you never get below 9hr 59min of daylength. I'm drooling.

If I could choose though (stuck here for the time being, regardless of how I feel about it), I'd choose Canada and darkness these days!

I looked at the weather report on Sunday. It predicted 90-100% snow every single day this week. I was unfazed. I had a cousin who lived in north Saskatchewan. Do you know what happens in north Saskatchewan? For 21 days of the year, there is no night time or even astronomical twilight. You can watch the sun setting in the West while it is simultaneously rising in the East.

On a super serious note, seasonal depression is a major health issue in Canada because our winter days are so short and they hours that remain are in the middle of the day.

I could live with it being DST year round, although I'd prefer standard time year round. Right now I'd take either over the ridiculous switching back and forth twice a year.

I hear you brother. This is my first year feeling like this; DST has messed my body up horribly.