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General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: frugalnacho on December 30, 2017, 06:50:15 PM

Title: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: frugalnacho on December 30, 2017, 06:50:15 PM
The wife and I talked about it, and we were in agreement that it doesn't make much sense to take a vacation with a young baby.  Then we had a baby at the end of October, and now she wants to go on vacation in Feb/March (when baby is about 4 months old).

I think she is stressed from the baby - He rarely lets us get more than a few hours sleep at a time, he nurses 12-15 times a day, and he doesn't nap like he is supposed to and prefers to scream bloody murder instead.  She doesn't work, she is a SAHM, and I think she feels cooped up and stuck in the house.  It doesn't help that we are in michigan, and only getting about 8 hours of day light right now, and have tons of ice and snow, and it's also 10*F outside (without wind chill).  I get it, I'm stressed and tired and want to get away from it all too, but I just don't see us getting away from the stress of the baby.  I think she wants a vacation from the baby, and thinks taking a Caribbean cruise will make everything better.  I think it will eat up my vacation time, eat up our vacation funds, all so we can change a hundred shitty diapers and not sleep in the Caribbean instead of our own home.  I'd much rather wait until he is a little older and won't require intensive care around the clock.

Maybe he will get better and be less of a stressful handful when he is 4 months old instead of 2, but I somehow suspect he is still going to be a pain in the ass and flying to a tropical location with him in tow sounds like a nightmare. 

Is my wife crazy to consider taking a vacation with an infant? Am I crazy thinking it doesn't sound like a vacation at all and is going to just be a big stressful waste of time and money?
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Sibley on December 30, 2017, 06:57:59 PM
Answer to your questions: No, and no.

She needs help. Figure out how to get some. Not sleeping for 4 months will do that to you. Good luck, and they do grow up eventually.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Lanthiriel on December 30, 2017, 07:23:00 PM
Can you use that money to buy her one day off a week instead? 8 hours of uninterrupted me-time could help clear her head.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: clutchy on December 30, 2017, 07:28:03 PM
when my kid was 4 months old we hopped in the car and drove around the US for 5 weeks visiting national parks. 

It was amazing.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: seattlecyclone on December 30, 2017, 07:37:56 PM
We did a one-week vacation with our son when he was just a few months old, and in a lot of ways it was better than traveling with him as a two-year-old. Now he's always running around getting into trouble, resists sleep on the plane more than he used to, is harder to carry around when he can't or won't walk, etc.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Hargrove on December 30, 2017, 07:39:40 PM
15 feedings a day sounds pretty rough. I can't think of much after breathing or blinking that I'd like to endure 15 times a day, and those things aren't physically painful. It's not the time to convince her to think things through carefully. Buying her a day off is a way better idea.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: frugalnacho on December 30, 2017, 08:12:56 PM
Can you use that money to buy her one day off a week instead? 8 hours of uninterrupted me-time could help clear her head.

Unlikely - it would mostly be paid by travel hacking.

She has help all the time.  I am here helping her all the time.  I had 3 weeks paternity leave after the birth, and my office shuts down for the week of xmas so I've been off all week and I'm not going back to work until Jan 2nd.  I also had 2.5 days off for Thanksgiving. Her mother comes over at least 1 day per week (like all day, and has spent the night 4-5 times since the birth).  She also has a good friend that is a nurse and was her doula who comes over about once a week to help.  Plus some other family and friends that come over to help.

Even with all that help it is stressful.  And even when it's not stressful because of the help, it quickly becomes stressful once the help leaves and we (or she) is on our own again.  It only take a few hours of shitty diapers and a screeching baby before you are stressed out.


I don't now how any of you were able to take such a young baby on a vacation.  How do you actually get anywhere when they are cluster feeding, sometimes only an hour apart for 4-5 feedings in a row, and constantly shitting themselves?  When she's taking care of him by herself she can't even get enough time to get a shower in. 

Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: SimpleCycle on December 30, 2017, 08:21:09 PM
We vacationed with DD at 8 weeks and 3 months and DS at 2 months.  We also took DD on an international trip at 15 months, and are traveling internationally in March when DS will be 11 months and DD will be 2.75.

I’m very pro travel with babies, as long as you have the right expectations.  We’re very roll with it people, and we enjoy travel.  I am glad we didn’t put our lives on hold because DD was still waking twice a night when we traveled at 15 months.

We did different things.  DD had a meltdown in the Prado and we had to cut the visit short.  But she also unlocked a hidden child loving aspect of Moroccan culture we wouldn’t have experienced without her.  And DS loved the beach at 2 months.

Your vacations will not be the same now that you have a kid.  Whether that means it’s not worth going is a personal choice.  For us, it’s worth doing, but it’s not crazy to feel differently.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: better late on December 30, 2017, 08:22:37 PM
When would you need to decide by?
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: SimpleCycle on December 30, 2017, 08:24:16 PM
FYI though, I think most cruise lines don’t allow babies under 6 months.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: SimpleCycle on December 30, 2017, 08:29:47 PM
Also, it sounds like your kiddo is tough for both of you.  Our first was like that.  It took a while to find a rhythm, and I hope trip or no trip, you can find ways to make it less stressful.  DD basically needed to be held 12+ hours a day and babywearing saved my sanity. 
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: I'm a red panda on December 30, 2017, 08:35:52 PM
We did a long weekend in St. Louis (4 hour drive) at 3 months and a week in the Adirondacks (all day flying with horrid delays) at 4 months. They were wonderful trips. But everything that was hard about caring for the baby at home is still hard caring for the baby application. Not to mention as the primary caregiver I had to sit out a lot of activities because I had the baby. When everyone went ziplining I sat and watched. Although we were able to take the baby on the kayak when everyone went water skiing and tubing again satin watch. Instead of night life we did early bedtimes. And the baby still need to be fed every 1 to 2 hours even though we're on vacation the schedule didn't change. All the night waking still happened. But it was fun to be somewhere else. I also found at that age it was really easy because I just fed the baby wherever we are. I walked through the zoo while breastfeeding her and then walk through the zoo while pumping the freemie pump pretty incredible if you use the hand pump. Same thing on the airplane it was really nice because when we were delayed I had all the food with me. As for diapers you just change them where you are I got really easy to put change her just in the seat of the car pulled over at a rest stop. Now that she's bigger I think that would be hard

It's just very very hard to be a new mother. I think fathers have a hard time understanding because they don't have the out-of-control hormones and while it sucks to blame things on hormones to be quite honest a woman's hormones are incredibly out of whack after giving birth. So while it might seem like she always help to you she might very well feel like she's always alone. There's a lot of pressure on mother's and you get the feeling that if you do a single thing wrong you've ruined your baby's life.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: WSUCoug1994 on December 30, 2017, 08:50:22 PM
Your baby (and mommy) sounds strikingly similar to mine (who is now 20 months).  Do not underestimate the value of sleep training.  It ABSOLUTELY CHANGED OUR LIVES but we waited until she was 9 months old - huge mistake.  We have number two in the oven and at four months she/he will be in basic training.  Once the baby (and mommy) was sleep trained everything else was a lot easier.  I vote against the vacation - you end up doing the exact same thing but in a more expensive place but YMMV.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Noodle on December 30, 2017, 09:00:04 PM
Vacation yes, cruise, no. Little babies who don't need to be up running around, have all their food in an easily transportable mama-package, and aren't so sensitive to the environment as toddlers can actually be decent travelers.

However, a ship with 2000 people crowded together, no access to stores, and a structured schedule is not conducive to a vacation with a tiny demanding baby.

Alternate suggestion: rent a house/condo somewhere sunny. (The upside of a house is no neighbors complaining about baby noise.) No cleaning, no snow shoveling, cooking as minimal as you want to make it. For extra points, bring along a young cousin/neighbor/church friend who would LOVE a free trip to somewhere sunny in exchange for a few hours of babysitting a day and freedom the rest of the time. (Or you could use a babysitting service at your destination, but I know a lot of people are nervous about leaving a young baby with someone they don't know.)
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: frugalnacho on December 30, 2017, 10:14:01 PM
FYI though, I think most cruise lines don’t allow babies under 6 months.

Looks like you are right.  I hadn't even looked into it yet.

EDIT: Also it looks like they charge full price.  No thanks.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Tuskalusa on December 30, 2017, 10:44:13 PM
I think spending some money on some consistent help would go a long way in this situation. Maybe 1-2 days in daycare. Perhaps a home daycare where the provider specializes in babies.

I know the situation is different, but we put our son in daycare at 4 months, when I went back to work. It was life changing. Our daycare provider had our son on a sleeping/eating schedule within a week. He slept better at home. And she taught us a ton. She was amazing.

While your wife may have help, it doesn’t sound like she has much time to herself. A couple days of freedom for the day could really help.

As for family vacations, we went to Hawaii when our son was 6 months old. Nightmare.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: englishteacheralex on December 30, 2017, 11:43:57 PM
The first three months of my first child were hellish. Then we went on a two week vacation to visit my in-laws. We had no family helping us and it was glorious to be in a place with tons of family, all of whom were overjoyed to hold a baby while I napped.

Came back, went back to work, got into a daycare routine, hormones sorted themselves out...life got a lot better.

Things I wished I had known:

1. Post-partum depression is real, and there are things that can be done about it. For kid #2 I had a whole post-partum strategy mapped out with a prescription in the hopper from my OB for Zoloft. Turned out I didn't even need it--#2 was such a lovely, easy baby. Plus I knew what I was doing the second time around. It would have helped a lot with #1, though. I just kept thinking I must actually be fine. But I wasn't. I had horrible intrusive thoughts about killing the baby somehow. It was really awful and I wish I had known it was just hormones, it was normal, and there's lots that can be done about it.

2. Get out of the house at least once per day no matter how sleep deprived you are. Find a mommy group. Mine was a bible study at my church. I actually was going to three of them. They weren't magic but they stopped me from throwing my baby out a window.

3. A vacation to somewhere warm and sunny with some help might be a good idea. The condo thing with a young helper babysitter sounds like just the ticket.

4. First time around I didn't understand how vigilant you have to be about getting sleep. Second time around I was the sleep nazi. I also liberally used benedryl to make sure I'd fall back asleep after the night wakings. Nothing more frustrating than watching the baby fall back asleep and sitting up not being able to join him in sleep because the hormones or the stress or whatever just makes it impossible.

The benedryl thing...I asked my OB if it was a bad idea and she shrugged. A ton of my girlfriends all do the same thing. Doesn't seem to have been habit forming. Maybe just a placebo. Anyway, it was a life saver for #2 and I wish I had known about it for #1.

New mom solidarity. It's really hard.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Papa bear on December 31, 2017, 12:54:41 AM
Vacations with infants isn't that hard to do. We did it with #1 at 4 months and #2 will be 2 months old for a 2 week trip.

As for the feeding thing, try bottle feeding.  My wife nursed for all of about 3 days with each before switching to pumping.  So much easier for us, plus you get 3-4 hours between feedings even at 4 weeks.  Some nights we get 6 hours!


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Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: nessness on December 31, 2017, 01:13:16 AM
I traveled with both of mine when they were young babies and it was fairly easy. It gets harder when they're mobile, up until about age 2.5 when it gets easier again.

There's a big difference between 2 months and 4 months, and hopefully your baby will be eating less and sleeping more soon. In the short-term, try to help your wife get some more rest - maybe she could pump so you could give the baby a bottle at night, or take the baby for several hours on a weekend day, either out of the house so she could nap or you stay home so she could go somewhere alone.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: MrThatsDifferent on December 31, 2017, 03:19:08 AM
I know people travel with kids under 4 months, but I’m finding that odd as my cousin just had a baby and was recommended to keep the baby away from large crowds and too many people the first 3 months to limit the exposure to diseases. This must be a new thing some doctors recommend?

OP, I agree with your gut on this. You won’t really get a vacation. If anything you’ll have everything you both are currently not enjoying ruining your fun time. What I would do is wait until the baby can be fed without nursing and then ask family to watch the baby for 2-3 nights and just find some place with a warmth and a spa and get massages and soak in a hot tub and sleep.  Or ask the wife to pump some extra milk and send her away for a night or two and watch the baby on hour own. You don’t have to be martyrs. It’s ok to have a break and be good parents. Your sanity matters. You need a tiny baby break, I wouldn’t compound it by bringing the baby along.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Imma on December 31, 2017, 03:20:07 AM
I think the idea of renting a house somewhere sunny and taking someone to watch the baby is a great idea! You guys need rest and sleep more than anything, but I can imagine the cold, snow and darkness at home aren't helping.

Alternatively, if your MIL is coming to stay over frequently, maybe she can take the baby home with her for a weekend every now and then? She can feed the baby breast milk from a bottle. I'm not a mum, but I hear from friends pumping breast milk is a life saver for them. That we they can still breastfeed, but other people can watch the baby too. Once the baby is away, you both need to rest. You are probably both losing your mind from sleep deprivation right now. 
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: samsonator54321 on December 31, 2017, 04:21:56 AM
I agree on the giving your wife a mini vacation at home or a getaway weekend. Also we live in Michigan as well and just had a baby a few weeks ago. Bundling up and going for a walk outside has helped my wife a lot.

I really think carribean cruise is a bad idea. Babies aren’t even supposed to wear sunscreen until 6 mos. And cruise ships are a cess pool of germs. The rooms are like 10x10 on those things, and your neighbors might loath you. Also does your wife get sea sick? Do babies?

Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: SimpleCycle on December 31, 2017, 04:23:30 AM
I know people travel with kids under 4 months, but I’m finding that odd as my cousin just had a baby and was recommended to keep the baby away from large crowds and too many people the first 3 months to limit the exposure to diseases. This must be a new thing some doctors recommend?

Some doctors recommend this for babies born during cold and flu season, but it’s far from universal and doesn’t seem to be based on data.  Plus it’s impractical for second/third/fourth babies whose older siblings need to go places.

Also, there are studies that show there is nothing especially germy or contagious about airplane travel.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Cranky on December 31, 2017, 04:32:45 AM
Travel with small children can be fun, but I never found it really restful - you are still doing all the childcare stuff, but with your routine disrupted (and more witnesses.)

There’s a big difference between 2 months and 4 months, though. Things really will settle down.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: MayDay on December 31, 2017, 05:36:52 AM
For us, travel was not good when our kids were that age. Yes they  were portable but they didn't fucking sleep so we we're zombies.

All of you who tra la la traveled with babies, I am curious if yours slept more than an hour at a time.

Anyway, she doesn't need help during the day (well she does, but). Put her in a hotel or send her to a friend or relative's house to sleep two nights a week. That will have a much bigger impact.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: gaja on December 31, 2017, 06:02:33 AM
Re: the frequent feedings and short naps.
When you breastfeed, the first milk is quite watery, while the full fat milk, that keeps the baby full longer, comes later. I had a lot of milk, so my first kid would get full on the watery stuff, and be hungry again in an hour. It really helped to pump a few minutes before I fed her.

We also had strict schedules, until the kids were four or so, detailing who got to sleep which nights. Sleeping in the same room was not a priority, sleeping a full night every so often, was.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: me1 on December 31, 2017, 06:02:49 AM
1. don't make her feel like you are dismissing her stress and overwhelmed feelings. the first 6 months were truly awful for me with a baby, but then it slowly got a lot better. Let her get away if even for a few hours on her own, to a movie or to a store or anywhere she can go without the baby. I don't care how many people help a few hours a week. She is there 24/7 and trapped. Help her!

2. use the travel churning to send her to a hotel near by for one night alone.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: SimpleCycle on December 31, 2017, 06:30:27 AM
All of you who tra la la traveled with babies, I am curious if yours slept more than an hour at a time.

My first woke 8-10 times a night until 6 months.  We made four trips during that time, although two were to visit family.

Babies are different, families are different, but it worked for us.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: I'm a red panda on December 31, 2017, 06:39:31 AM
For us, travel was not good when our kids were that age. Yes they  were portable but they didn't fucking sleep so we we're zombies.

All of you who tra la la traveled with babies, I am curious if yours slept more than an hour at a time.

Anyway, she doesn't need help during the day (well she does, but). Put her in a hotel or send her to a friend or relative's house to sleep two nights a week. That will have a much bigger impact.

No while traveling, baby woke 4+ times a night to be fed.

(I didn't mention out trip at 8 months in my post. She woke 1-2 times a night there.)
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: big_slacker on December 31, 2017, 07:57:38 AM
Life and adventure doesn't have to stop with kids. But..... I've taken a baby to hawaii and a toddler and pregnant wife to eastern europe and germany. Not gonna lie bro, you're gonna take your sleep dep and stress levels from 95% to 150%. And what would normally be an awesome experience turns into more of a blur.

In your situation having done travel with little ones I'd try to give your wife more 100% baby free time so she can sleep and de-stress a bit. Save the travel for a little bit later, like 1 year old at least. Just my .2c
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: tinylittlemonkey on December 31, 2017, 08:37:09 AM
I don’t want to sound like a dick but I do want to throw this out there...

If your baby is keeping you from sleeping and is crying all the time, why would you guys take it on a cruise ship with hundreds of other vacationers who can’t relax because your baby is crying? You’re confined to the ship a lot of the time. Don’t do that to other travelers. (And vice versa, if you’re on a kids cruise you aren’t going to relax either!)

I don’t have kids but I do relate to the short days depression. This sounds nuts but a few minutes in a tanning bed can boost your vitamin D intake and cheer you up. You can usually get a free week trial.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Chadbert on December 31, 2017, 09:19:41 AM

Things I wished I had known:

1. Post-partum depression is real, and there are things that can be done about it. For kid #2 I had a whole post-partum strategy mapped out with a prescription in the hopper from my OB for Zoloft. Turned out I didn't even need it--#2 was such a lovely, easy baby. Plus I knew what I was doing the second time around. It would have helped a lot with #1, though. I just kept thinking I must actually be fine. But I wasn't. I had horrible intrusive thoughts about killing the baby somehow. It was really awful and I wish I had known it was just hormones, it was normal, and there's lots that can be done about it.

4. First time around I didn't understand how vigilant you have to be about getting sleep. Second time around I was the sleep nazi. I also liberally used benedryl to make sure I'd fall back asleep after the night wakings. Nothing more frustrating than watching the baby fall back asleep and sitting up not being able to join him in sleep because the hormones or the stress or whatever just makes

New mom solidarity. It's really hard.

Post partum with our first was really bad. Get your wife in to see a good post partum counselor (our O/B clinic has one on staff). Our insurance covered 4 visits there and my DW also went to her regular psychiatrist during that time. Even if insurance doesn’t cover the visit, raid your stash if you have to, professional help was a life saver for us.

The second big thing for my SAHM DW, was that I bought her a good pump, $300 well spent, she would pump for the night and I took at least one feeding at night so she could sleep.

Baby 2 is on the way and we are planning on sleeping in different rooms for the first 3 months so only the person responsible for the night feeding has to wake up, we are planning a schedule this time.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: ysette9 on December 31, 2017, 09:40:40 AM
It isn’t a new thing to want to avoid exposing your new baby to crowds and diseases. Their immune systems and immature and they don’t have many immunizations yet. We have preemies so we have to be extra cautious, but were told that crowds are okay provided people aren’t touching the baby. If they can’t help themselves, ask them to touch/kiss the baby’s feet and not the hands.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: englishteacheralex on December 31, 2017, 09:44:07 AM
OH! Another thing I wished I'd known: breastfeeding isn't everything it's cracked up to be. There's a ton of pressure on moms to do it, but once the reality of the night feeding and working/pumping hit me, formula became my best friend.

First kid never had a drop of formula until he was 8 months old. Trying to do the whole pumping thing plus the night wakings SUCKED.

Second kid was exclusively breast fed until three months. After that we did a half/half kind of deal. Wonderful. DH could feed her. I didn't have to be glued to her at all times.

For the second kid I had a very laid-back attitude towards the whole thing. I trusted myself a lot more and didn't spend tons of time online consulting mommy blogs and whatever.

I second the sleeping in separate rooms thing. Totally did that for #2; just set up a futon in her room and slept there with her so that DH could always get a good night's sleep and do the heavy lifting during the day while I was glued at the boob to the baby.

It's so funny; I was terrified of having a second baby but then it was NBD at all because I had so many survival skills and wasn't constantly afraid of being judged.

As for a vacation...wouldn't do a cruise, that's for sure. Something cheap-ish that gets you out of the house might not be a bad idea. Change things up.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: mm1970 on December 31, 2017, 09:51:16 AM
Hmm.  I think that a vacation with a 4 month old is not necessarily bad.  We vacationed with our first at 8 months and our second at 4 months.

But it wasn't a fancy tropical type vacation (with the second one, it was a trip to Legoland).

I think that a couple of things might happen here, for her:
1.  When you are "on vacation" somewhere tropical, she can be outside and get exercise and not be stuck indoors.
2.  When you are "on vacation", she's not solo.  You will actually be there to take on more of the burden of child care.

Those early months are effing hard.  I remember being on mat leave with a few friends, and more than one said "Well, I don't make my husband get up in the middle of the night feedings because he has to work the next day."  I said "fuck that.  I'm going back to work, so he might as well get used to it."  I have no idea what your dynamic is - do you wake up with the baby?  It's isolating for her if you don't.

If I were you, I'd do something like rent a condo in Florida.  Warm spot, like a house.

I agree with englishteacheralex on the breastfeeding.  I did the breastfeeding/ pumping thing for over a year with kid #1 (no formula).  It was really hard.  I figured it would be easier with kid #2, but it was harder.  I made it 8.5 months before I added in formula, and it was the best thing ever.  I wish I'd learned from my friends.  Many of them would nurse the baby at 8 pm, then go to bed.  Husband did the next feeding with a bottle (breastmilk or formula), so mom got a solid 5-6 hours of sleep before the next feeding.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: mm1970 on December 31, 2017, 09:55:14 AM
One more thing - she needs to learn to take a shower.

A lot of my friends said they didn't have time to shower.  I asked "what do you mean?"

The baby cries.

So?  A shower takes 5 minutes (I can do it in less).  Go in to the bathroom.  Close the door.  Take the shower.  Does a tree that falls in the woods make a sound if you aren't there to hear it?

Let the baby cry for 5 minutes.  You won't hear him over the sound of the shower.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: fuzzy math on December 31, 2017, 10:00:09 AM


She has help all the time.  I am here helping her all the time.  I had 3 weeks paternity leave after the birth, and my office shuts down for the week of xmas so I've been off all week and I'm not going back to work until Jan 2nd.  I also had 2.5 days off for Thanksgiving. Her mother comes over at least 1 day per week (like all day, and has spent the night 4-5 times since the birth).  She also has a good friend that is a nurse and was her doula who comes over about once a week to help.  Plus some other family and friends that come over to help.

Even with all that help it is stressful.  And even when it's not stressful because of the help, it quickly becomes stressful once the help leaves and we (or she) is on our own again.  It only take a few hours of shitty diapers and a screeching baby before you are stressed out.


I don't now how any of you were able to take such a young baby on a vacation.  How do you actually get anywhere when they are cluster feeding, sometimes only an hour apart for 4-5 feedings in a row, and constantly shitting themselves?  When she's taking care of him by herself she can't even get enough time to get a shower in.

It is not harmful to take 10 minutes to yourself to shower. If your kid only naps for 25 minutes, you go immediately. If the baby wakes up, they fuss til you come back. For me, a shower often meant the difference between feeling human or not.

Babies poop a lot. People talk about babies pooping and fussing a lot. The fussing is definitely on the higher end of the spectrum, but the poop is to be expected.

Your level of stress sounds very high too and I have to wonder whether you are effective in giving your wife an actual break. With you working and coming home to immediately help out, are you also giving yourself the breaks you need?

A previous poster has given you some good advice about breastfed babies and the fat content of milk. I would recommend your wife read up on that, and see if any changes need to be made. With his level of unhappiness, it's also worth her reading up about the big triggers of infant discomfort in mom's diet (broccoli, garlic, onions, dairy etc).

It's also worth noting that breast milk is very easily digested within 45 minutes. So it's completely expected and normal for a breastfed baby to be hungry every hour. A lot of the advice you may have heard comes from parents of formula fed babies and their lives are very different. Formula takes about 3 hours to digest and people have a much easier time sleep training and meal training their infant. Please do not do this to a breastfed baby. If your wife is choosing to breastfeed, she needs to come to the realization that unfortunately this is the schedule your kid is going to keep until he's a bit older. My kids were like that at first. My oldest in particular had a bewitching hour from about 7 - 10 pm. I would go to bed at 8 pm, leave the baby with my husband and he would basically rock the baby, hold a paci in his mouth, and watch tv or play the Wii one handed (lots of bowling) until the bewitching hours passed. I'd nurse him and DH wouldn't bother me unless it was clear the baby was starving and it wasn'tt just crazy time. Having that time where I could sleep uninterrupted (no baby monitor!) went a long ways towards me having some sanity.

What are you doing at night btw? With a high needs baby it's much easier to have him sleep near or with you and just do diaper changes right then and there. If she isn't nursing laying down she should really consider it.

If your MIL is coming over, you both should leave the house. Going to target by yourselves, sharing a coffee and maybe buying 1 item will also do wonders for your mental health.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Roadrunner53 on December 31, 2017, 10:10:32 AM
I agree with several readers here. I have no kids so I might be a bad person for advice. But, like another said, vacationers do not want to hear a crying baby and if you go on a cruise, the norovirus has been in the news and you don't want a sick baby. I personally like the idea of one of the others said here is to rent a house somewhere. Bring a nanny, granny, friend. Go to a sunny place where you can walk and push a stroller. Just a change of pace would be good. You certainly are not going to enjoy anything that a cruise has to offer. The gambling, the live entertainment, drinking, swimming in the pools. Until you decide if you are going on a vacation, buy your wife some spa gift certificates, talk to her girlfriends and have them go to a movie, shopping, lunch. Spend the day away from the baby. She needs some ME time! Good luck!
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Baboo on December 31, 2017, 10:22:55 AM
For those exclaiming, "Travelling with babies is easy!" or "I did it and it was no biggee!", good for you!  OP, not everyone has this experience so you have to go with your gut, knowing your kid and yourselves.  Our first (of 3) kids was very high needs.  Our first year sounded similar to your experience.  We didn't vacation until she was 14 months old, and that was even stressful.  Every baby is different and every set of parents is different.  One thing we've found over the years, and especially having multiple kids, is inviting a set of grandparents along.  They get their own room, but are there enough to give us a break so we can chill here and there, too. It does get easier as they get older.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Helvegen on December 31, 2017, 10:29:59 AM
One more thing - she needs to learn to take a shower.

A lot of my friends said they didn't have time to shower.  I asked "what do you mean?"

The baby cries.

So?  A shower takes 5 minutes (I can do it in less).  Go in to the bathroom.  Close the door.  Take the shower.  Does a tree that falls in the woods make a sound if you aren't there to hear it?

Let the baby cry for 5 minutes.  You won't hear him over the sound of the shower.

+100

When my kid was an infant, I'd just take her to the shower with me if I were alone AND she was awake. I'd strap her in the carseat, put it on the floor, shower. I am having trouble remembering if she ever had a problem with it. Most of the time, she just fell asleep or quietly stared at things. I can't remember any point in time where I thought I wouldn't shower period because the baby might not like it.

I didn't enjoy travel with my kid until she was 5 YEARS old. It was a complete PITA until then. Got much better after she turned 5 for sure.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Miss Piggy on December 31, 2017, 10:47:27 AM
Is baby ONLY breastfeeding at this point? If so, I have to wonder in you and your wife's situation if maybe a partial breastfeeding, partial formula approach might make life more livable. I mean, I get it that breastfeeding is critically important to some families, but at what cost?

Disclaimers:
- I have no children.
- I have never had a baby.
- I don't care one way or another whether a woman breastfeeds.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Jaguar Paw on December 31, 2017, 10:49:15 AM
Reading tone is tough, but you sound pretty super stressed out too.

I have an 18 month old who was exclusively breast fed by wifey for 6 months. Babies burn through milk like it's no tomorrow. It is great for them but doesn't keep them full for long. It was very important to my wife to try to EBF for 6 months, so we made it work. After that, we started introducing more food and the baby started to sleep longer through the night. At 1 year, all food was on the table, and her sleep is pretty awesome.

The first few months of a child and the lack of sleep are indescribable. I had worked a ton, colleged a ton, and a variety of other things that I thought would prepare me for lack of sleep with a kid. It would be a breeze I though. It was super hard. I had a lack of sleep breakdown at like 2 weeks, and my wife at 2 months. We communicated with each other and helped out when needed. It was all good. I took 6 weeks off when the baby was born and my wife took 10 weeks off. We both agree that staying at home with the baby all day is way more tiring and stressful than work.

Back to the original question, traveling with a baby is awesome. We have been on over 10 flights with our baby and are taking full advantage of her flying for free until she is 2. Our first trip was when she was 6 months old and it was great. Does the baby poop? I sure hope so. Does the baby eat? I sure hope so. Diapers and feeding a baby is the result of a glorious 85 seconds that my wife and I shared 9 months before our baby was born. Vacations are different..forever. But it's a cool different. Running through a snowstorm to get to CVS in NH because your 6 month old had a diaper blowout at a coffee shop, has poop all up her back and you forgot the diaper bag at home is part of the fun. Cramped up on a cruise ship doesn't sound like a blast or me without a baby but that's our family. We like the outside and like showing our baby new stuff.

Furthermore, vacations in your future will be different from now. Now instead of changing diapers and feeding every hour, we know that we have just about 25 minutes to eat a meal and that we will spend up to two hours chasing around our adventurous toddler who just wants to walk and run everywhere. It's incredibly awesome 90% of the time and frustrating the other 10.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: I'm a red panda on December 31, 2017, 11:05:13 AM
For those exclaiming, "Travelling with babies is easy!" or "I did it and it was no biggee!", good for you!  OP, not everyone has this experience so you have to go with your gut, knowing your kid and yourselves.  Our first (of 3) kids was very high needs.  Our first year sounded similar to your experience.  We didn't vacation until she was 14 months old, and that was even stressful.  Every baby is different and every set of parents is different. 

But it's the mother of this baby suggesting the vacation.people are just telling an incredulous father it can be done.

But I agree with those that this mother needs support more than a cruise.

(As for a shower, the only time my baby touched a bouncy seat was so I could shower daily. Otherwise we never used "containers")
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: K-ice on December 31, 2017, 11:25:48 AM
Since this is an MMM forum if you can afford it I’d do it.

First flight with bebe was 5 weeks. They loved just sleeping with me pinned down for 5h.
We got lucky.

Try to pack as light as possible. Brest feeding works great while traveling.

Second trip was at 3-4 months to a much needed sunny spot.

We were cooped up in a cold winter & it was so nice to get outside without bundling up.

Your wife is asking & it sounds like your family needs a break. Take it!






Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: MilesTeg on December 31, 2017, 11:26:32 AM
The wife and I talked about it, and we were in agreement that it doesn't make much sense to take a vacation with a young baby.  Then we had a baby at the end of October, and now she wants to go on vacation in Feb/March (when baby is about 4 months old).

I think she is stressed from the baby - He rarely lets us get more than a few hours sleep at a time, he nurses 12-15 times a day, and he doesn't nap like he is supposed to and prefers to scream bloody murder instead.  She doesn't work, she is a SAHM, and I think she feels cooped up and stuck in the house.  It doesn't help that we are in michigan, and only getting about 8 hours of day light right now, and have tons of ice and snow, and it's also 10*F outside (without wind chill).  I get it, I'm stressed and tired and want to get away from it all too, but I just don't see us getting away from the stress of the baby.  I think she wants a vacation from the baby, and thinks taking a Caribbean cruise will make everything better.  I think it will eat up my vacation time, eat up our vacation funds, all so we can change a hundred shitty diapers and not sleep in the Caribbean instead of our own home.  I'd much rather wait until he is a little older and won't require intensive care around the clock.

Maybe he will get better and be less of a stressful handful when he is 4 months old instead of 2, but I somehow suspect he is still going to be a pain in the ass and flying to a tropical location with him in tow sounds like a nightmare. 

Is my wife crazy to consider taking a vacation with an infant? Am I crazy thinking it doesn't sound like a vacation at all and is going to just be a big stressful waste of time and money?

VERY STUPID idea to travel with a 4 month old -- especially to a tropical island. That's just asking for a major medical issue, possibly including DEATH of the baby. Consult your physician for when it's safe (read: after immunizations and his/her immune system is built up).
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: kpd905 on December 31, 2017, 11:46:52 AM
We are doing our first big trip in May when our baby will be 7 months old.  We are going to Zion national park, flying into Vegas.  The weather should be pretty nice at that time of year, we won't be able to do the exciting hikes, but we were there and did them a few years ago.  Right now at 2.5 months she generally only gets up once a night to eat, so I'm hoping that continues.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: ETBen on December 31, 2017, 12:00:42 PM
Been there. I’m glad there is a lot of help?  Does she get out without the baby?  To feel like a human, not to buy groceries. Except for many moms, we simultaneously need a break but don’t want to leave the baby. Or enjoy it when we do.

Basically, she needs to feel like a woman in her own right, not as the baby wrangler. But that’s a tough identity crisis for a lot of moms. She may also need to feel like a wife, but isn’t ready for that yet either. It’s still pretty early, so that identity struggle is tough bc date night and nannies aren’t necessarily welcomed by some moms yet. She needs to be validated as a mom, bc with this kind of baby (my oldest was like this), it’s really tough to feel like you don’t know who you are whatever it is, you’re pretty sure you suck at it (but she doesn’t).

Talking helps. To you. To other moms who don’t judge. To a therapist if need be.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: mrsnamemustache on December 31, 2017, 12:06:25 PM
- agree that non-cruise vaca is good idea.
- 4 month olds are so much better/easier than 2 month olds. Huge difference in my experience.
- I sleep trained (cio) at 2 months and it was great. Still fed baby in middle of night but he had set bedtime. It is earlier than many people are comfortable with, but it worked great for our family and might be good for yours. (Doc approved, if that matters)
Title: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: ysette9 on December 31, 2017, 12:19:33 PM
Interesting, because with my baby (2.5 months adjusted) we were told by our sleep coach and by the nurse in her pediatrics office that she is too young for Cry It Out. We were told that sleep training can start at 4 months when their brains are developmentally ready to learn something more than just “i have been abandoned and no one is getting me so I need to be quiet to not get eaten by predators”. I am counting down the days until she reaches that point because being woken a million times a night SUCKS.

I completely relate to the OP’s wife. A young baby is the hardest thing ever. Harder than work. Harder than school. Harder than work and school. Harder than working full time pregnant with a toddler and a spouse on business travel for two weeks.

I go back to work in two (2!!!!!) days so we have been working on my husband giving the baby a bottle. Yesterday I went on a run by myself and after I pumped and left him with the baby for an couple of hours to have an outing with my toddler. It was the most amazing thing ever. Can you offer something similar to your wife?

The thing I realized is that it is exhausting being The Parent all the time. The one who has to decide, the one who is responsible. Having an extra set of hands is nice, but nothing replaces having your spouse step in and give a mental break.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Rosy on December 31, 2017, 12:28:14 PM
when my kid was 4 months old we hopped in the car and drove around the US for 5 weeks visiting national parks. 

It was amazing.

[/quote


When our son was nine months old, we drove from Washington State to New Jersey - 6 week trip in an Army pup tent - visiting national parks across the US.
 We were en route to be stationed overseas - then they held us up for another three weeks because they lost the paperwork.

Let me tell ya, it is not fun to overstay your welcome at a friends house waiting for orders to arrive with barely enough money to buy baby food, because - of course - it took them three months to straighten out his pay. Oh, joy:)

Oh yeah - the baby - loved the lakes and the ocean and meeting new people. I think he did better than we did:)

Seriously OP - your situation is different. Not all babies are the same - we lucked out, but your poor tyke is still having baby issues that need to be sorted out first before you can even think about going anywhere. It may take another month or two for him to settle in a better sleeping pattern. Hopefully, he is not having colic problems.
I think you nailed it on the head, she is sleep deprived and exhausted and just wants a break from the baby. Find a way for her to have one day free a week and do as much as you can to help alleviate the new baby stress.

You'll figure it out - ETBen made some excellent points and it is true, we want a break from the baby, but then again we are not happy about leaving the baby in someone else's care. Wishing you luck. I knew someone whose every baby had issues for their entire first year and then pouf - all good.
Do the best you can - use common sense and most of all be there to support her.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: teen persuasion on December 31, 2017, 12:28:37 PM
OP, have you talked to your pediatrician about how baby is doing?  Screaming bloody murder doesn't sound like run of the mill newborn fussing to me (mom of 5).  It sounds like our experience with DS2, who had colic.  The term now might be GERD, but whatever you call it, its not fun for baby or parents.

Baby is screaming because he's uncomfortable, and likely nursing looking for comfort, but that leads to a vicious cycle of more discomfort from an overfull tummy (or if something in the breastmilk is causing his distress), or from excess air in his tummy from the screaming.

DS2's colic issues were worst starting about age 6 weeks.  Things eventually got better, but I'm having trouble remembering when, now (he's 24).  We tried everything we could think of / heard about to help him feel better, but it was mostly waiting for him to outgrow it.  I believe there may be more options now for treating GERD in infants, or better recognition of triggers, etc.  Your doctor may have better ideas about foods for mom to avoid, or trying formula if baby has a sensitivity.

Regarding poop - breastfed babies have very loose stool compared to formula fed babies, but again digestive issues in baby might be exacerbating things.  Another thing to discuss with your pediatrician.

An alternative reason for baby's excessive crying and frequent nursing could be if he is not getting enough nutrition from exclusive breastfeeding.  Your pediatrician can tell, based on weight gain and wet diapers (not dehydrated).  Is mom eating and drinking enough?  I learned to always have a drink at hand when i sat down to nurse one of the babies, since I wouldn't be getting up anytime soon.  She needs plenty of high quality extra calories while feeding herself and a rapidly growing child.  Yes, I do remember nursing every few hours in the early days, but there should be at least some multi hour breaks where baby and mom get some sleep. 
Title: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: ysette9 on December 31, 2017, 12:32:43 PM
A relatively easy thing to try is eliminating dairy from her diet. It takes awareness because almost all processed food has dairy, but the proteins in cow’s milk are the most frequent culprit of allergies in young breastfed babies. Eliminating it from my diet brought a fairly dramatic change in my baby in about 24 hours. It completely sucks to miss out on all of those tasty foods, but it is well worth the baby not screaming at her feedings
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: mrsnamemustache on December 31, 2017, 12:37:32 PM
@ysette9, my take is that there is a lot of non-evidence based advice on topic of sleep training; nothing I read about doing it at 2 months concerned me. Anecdotally, my first is now 2 and is smart and we'll-adjusted (for a two year old) :).
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: ysette9 on December 31, 2017, 12:51:15 PM
There is a ton of stuff out there on sleep training and certainly most of it doesn’t work for us. I am paying this sleep coach though so I am going to follow her advice on this one. :) I did CIO with my oldest and it was an abject failure, unlike everything I had read from parents of “normal” babies. I am glad it worked for you. I really wish it could have worked for us.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: golden1 on December 31, 2017, 01:27:06 PM
1) Get the kid checked out by your pediatrician if you haven’t already.  12-15 feedings a day is a bit much unless your kid is going through a growth spurt.  My breastfed kids would do that occasionally for a few days at a time, but them the feedings would stretch out and it would be about 8-10 times.   

2) I had a difficult baby and an easy going one.  There was no way my difficult one would have been ready at 4 months, but my easy one, no problem.  Like others have said, a cruise is not a great choice.  Perhaps suggest something in the middle, like a long weekend at a beach somewhere, just to try it out, but not a huge expenditure?

3) Some kids that are difficult at home seem to calm down a bit with the stimulation of travel, sort of how like babies can fall asleep in a crowded room or while driving?   

4) This is a really hard and stressful time in a marriage for both of you.  The demands of a difficult baby are relentless.  Make sure that you get some breaks, and make sure that you tell her you understand how she needs a break. 
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Teachstache on December 31, 2017, 01:48:05 PM
For those exclaiming, "Travelling with babies is easy!" or "I did it and it was no biggee!", good for you!  OP, not everyone has this experience so you have to go with your gut, knowing your kid and yourselves.  Our first (of 3) kids was very high needs.  Our first year sounded similar to your experience.  We didn't vacation until she was 14 months old, and that was even stressful.  Every baby is different and every set of parents is different.  One thing we've found over the years, and especially having multiple kids, is inviting a set of grandparents along.  They get their own room, but are there enough to give us a break so we can chill here and there, too. It does get easier as they get older.

Our almost 3 year old son is still high needs. Sometimes, I'd be wary of vacationing with aunts, uncles, cousins or grandparents. They can become judgy about parenting/how you handle your kid, if they see you struggling. Our experience, while well intentioned, has turned into that, where nobody seems to really enjoy being around our kid at the end of the week, because of his high needs. I'm not blaming them at all. It's just stressful as a parent to have other family members watching you struggle, all while supposedly having fun on vacation.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Baboo on December 31, 2017, 02:33:00 PM
For those exclaiming, "Travelling with babies is easy!" or "I did it and it was no biggee!", good for you!  OP, not everyone has this experience so you have to go with your gut, knowing your kid and yourselves.  Our first (of 3) kids was very high needs.  Our first year sounded similar to your experience.  We didn't vacation until she was 14 months old, and that was even stressful.  Every baby is different and every set of parents is different.  One thing we've found over the years, and especially having multiple kids, is inviting a set of grandparents along.  They get their own room, but are there enough to give us a break so we can chill here and there, too. It does get easier as they get older.

Our almost 3 year old son is still high needs. Sometimes, I'd be wary of vacationing with aunts, uncles, cousins or grandparents. They can become judgy about parenting/how you handle your kid, if they see you struggling. Our experience, while well intentioned, has turned into that, where nobody seems to really enjoy being around our kid at the end of the week, because of his high needs. I'm not blaming them at all. It's just stressful as a parent to have other family members watching you struggle, all while supposedly having fun on vacation.

Good point.  Initially, when the kids were young, both sets of grandparents accompanied us.  DH's parents become frazzled and stressed and, after a few years, declined coming along.  This worked better for all involved because they obviously weren't enjoying themselves and it stressed us out worrying about it.  But, my parents have no problem looking beyond the bickering, tantrums and complaints in exchange for the good times on vacation.  I don't worry about them washing their hands of us because I know they wouldn't miss it for the world.  Just depends on each circumstance.  I don't begrudge the in-laws for not being able to tolerate the chaos.  I may not, either, when I become a grandparent.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: partgypsy on December 31, 2017, 02:42:21 PM
Everyone's experiences are going to be different. My oldest slept during the day, awake up at night, was also breastfed, so by the end of 4 months I was a walking zombie. The second was bad but not as bad because she slept at night. Also I caved and started supplementing with formula, which helped immensely (before, if baby woke up to feed it was me waking up, as the pumped milk was saved for during the day when I was at work). It sounds like she needs a break. If you could wait even until 6, 7, 8 months the baby should be on a more regular sleep schedule and it will feel more like a vacation. Honestly she will just be getting away from being in the house and maybe catching up with sleep, so I would choose something cheap and fun (hotel in FLA versus cruise). The plus side of baby vacations, you can strap them to you and they do sleep quite a bit. A 2, 3 year old toddler is more of a pain when traveling. 
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: frugalnacho on December 31, 2017, 04:10:21 PM
She started out pumping, but her supply has not kept up with his demand.  We have been supplementing about one 4 ounce bottle of formula each day during his cluster feeding.

I don't know if he is high needs, I think it's just how babies are.  He doesn't feed every hour of every day, and we are starting to get 2-3 nights a week where he will sleep for a 5-6 hour chunk.  It's completely unpredictable though, so I don't know if we are getting a good nights sleep, or if he wants to wait up shreaking every hour.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Milizard on December 31, 2017, 05:28:57 PM
We did a few weekend road trips when our first was an infant. He slept well in the car. We had to bring a ton of shit along,  unpacking it, repacking it, unpacking at home.  It was nice to change scenery, but still a ton of work. Did not feel like a vacation at all.  I think a plane would be double the stress.  Just a couple things: at 2 months, I think you're at the worst point. And breastfeeding is over-rated.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Zette on December 31, 2017, 06:54:28 PM
My brother and SIL took their 2 month old to the CA mountains and Yosemite in August.  I couldn't have done it with my first, but it worked out ok for them (although they did have to head home a day earlier than planned when everyone came down with a bad cold).  The key was having a very helpful grandmother along who slept on the pull-out couch of the condo and was willing to pitch in all the time with diapers, cooking, etc., and watch the baby for a couple of hours while they went out to eat.  I'd suggest driving somewhere for a 4 day weekend, and bring a grandma along.

The first 12-15 weeks are the hardest.  Here are a few tips I gave my brother before my niece was born that I think are applicable for you when you go back to work:

1.  You should make it a rule that you must make sure you wife has breakfast and a shower before you leave for work in the morning.  Get up early, make food for her, hold the baby while she showers, whatever it takes.  She's taking care of the baby, you need to take care of her.  Otherwise she may find it gets to be 2pm and she's neither eaten nor showered (speaking from experience here).

2.  My husband was on baby duty from 8-12pm each night.  I breastfed the baby, then went to sleep for a glorious 4 hours.  He gave the baby a bottle of formula when he cried around 9 or 10 (pumped milk would be an alternative), then woke me up when the baby wanted to feed again about midnight.  This made a huge difference in our ability to cope, and for him getting to bed by midnight ensured he had a reasonable night's sleep.


Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Dr. Pepper on December 31, 2017, 06:55:12 PM
We vacationed with a small baby, 6 months, and flew internationally, and took a cruise. It was ok, but we brought another adult along to help. If it was just me and the wife no way.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Suze456 on December 31, 2017, 07:39:04 PM
There is a big difference between a 2 month old and 4 month old ime. There is a growth spurt at 6-8 weeks...no fun! We vacationed with a 4 month old and it was fine...albeit at a much slower pace than prekids. And I still wouldn't do a cruise/ hotel room - get a 1 bed apartment at a minimum so if baby is awake, one person can still sleep.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Teachstache on December 31, 2017, 07:46:20 PM
My brother and SIL took their 2 month old to the CA mountains and Yosemite in August.  I couldn't have done it with my first, but it worked out ok for them (although they did have to head home a day earlier than planned when everyone came down with a bad cold).  The key was having a very helpful grandmother along who slept on the pull-out couch of the condo and was willing to pitch in all the time with diapers, cooking, etc., and watch the baby for a couple of hours while they went out to eat.  I'd suggest driving somewhere for a 4 day weekend, and bring a grandma along.

The first 12-15 weeks are the hardest.  Here are a few tips I gave my brother before my niece was born that I think are applicable for you when you go back to work:

1.  You should make it a rule that you must make sure you wife has breakfast and a shower before you leave for work in the morning.  Get up early, make food for her, hold the baby while she showers, whatever it takes.  She's taking care of the baby, you need to take care of her.  Otherwise she may find it gets to be 2pm and she's neither eaten nor showered (speaking from experience here).

2.  My husband was on baby duty from 8-12pm each night.  I breastfed the baby, then went to sleep for a glorious 4 hours.  He gave the baby a bottle of formula when he cried around 9 or 10 (pumped milk would be an alternative), then woke me up when the baby wanted to feed again about midnight.  This made a huge difference in our ability to cope, and for him getting to bed by midnight ensured he had a reasonable night's sleep.

This is excellent advice for new parents. Spouse and I had the mistaken idea that we'd both be up with the baby, in the spirit of egalitarianism. I wouldn't do that again. Divide & conquer would be our motto now.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: MrsPete on December 31, 2017, 07:56:14 PM
Is my wife crazy to consider taking a vacation with an infant? Am I crazy thinking it doesn't sound like a vacation at all and is going to just be a big stressful waste of time and money?
Your wife is not crazy, but she is wrong.  New babies are really hard, and they are even harder when you're out of your comfort zone (that is, where you don't have a crib and all your own stuff). 

I think what she needs is a rest from all the work of caring for a newborn.  Remember that her body is all out of whack.  She's learning new skills, and she's always "on".  Encourage her to go out to dinner with girlfriends for a few hours, encourage her to go walk around at the mall a few hours, encourage her to get out of the house without the baby.  I remember that I LOVED going to the grocery store.  I LOVED when my husband brought home a bucket of KFC, excusing me from cooking.  Look for a way to give her breaks; it will make a world of difference.

Here's a comparison:  Imagine you've just run a marathon; it was a really tough thing for you, and your body's not back up to speed ... and the very next day you begin swim lessons (you've never swum before) ... you are taking 10 lessons per day /some of them at night.  This is what your wife's going through right now.
15 feedings a day sounds pretty rough. I can't think of much after breathing or blinking that I'd like to endure 15 times a day, and those things aren't physically painful. It's not the time to convince her to think things through carefully. Buying her a day off is a way better idea.
15 feedings a day seems like too much.  By two months old, the baby should be catching onto the idea of eat-til-you-are-full ... if he's eating 15 times a day, I suspect he's eating just a bit, then falling asleep but staying "latched on" for comfort.  Your wife cannot allow the baby to use her as a pacifier.  He needs to learn to eat a full meal.  It sounds awful, but if he falls asleep when she knows he has only had a little bit of milk, she should put a cold washcloth on his little feet; it'll wake him, and he'll keep eating.  It shouldn't be long 'til he catches onto the idea that filling his stomach feels good. 

Does she have a breastfeeding pillow?  I didn't have one with my oldest child, and it made a world of difference with the second.  The consignment stores are full of them. 

Does she have a baby swing?  My oldest LOVED hers and would sit in it nicely while I prepared dinner ... my youngest HATED to be contained in any way and wouldn't stay in it five minutes. 

Has she talked to the doctor about how feeding is going?  The doctor should be your first touch-point on whether everything's good with the baby -- all of us can talk about our experiences, but you really should get the baby checked out. 

At four months, when you can start solids, you'll see a big difference.  At six months, things will become much easier.

When she's taking care of him by herself she can't even get enough time to get a shower in.
I remember this, but she's going to have to accept /learn to do things while taking care of the baby.  I know what she's thinking:  She's ALWAYS supposed to be watching the baby, and good moms put the baby first.  WRONG.  Good moms take care of themselves too.  She needs to put the baby safely in the crib, see that he's fine, then go straight to the shower -- or whatever she needs to do -- and trust that he's okay.  Sounds easy, but -- trust me -- it won't be easy for her.

The benedryl thing...I asked my OB if it was a bad idea and she shrugged. A ton of my girlfriends all do the same thing. Doesn't seem to have been habit forming. Maybe just a placebo. Anyway, it was a life saver for #2 and I wish I had known about it for #1.
Do not drug your baby. 

OH! Another thing I wished I'd known: breastfeeding isn't everything it's cracked up to be. There's a ton of pressure on moms to do it, but once the reality of the night feeding and working/pumping hit me, formula became my best friend.
Disagree.  Breastfeeding was worth it for the convenience, worth it for the health benefits, worth it for the savings ... but it is NOT automatic; it takes real effort to learn to do it.  And it's NOT easy to quantify; that is, unlike bottle feeders, you can't say, "My baby ate 4 ounces at 7:00 and another 4 ounces at noon", which can be tough if you're unsure about whether the baby's getting enough.  And it's tough that you can't pass the baby off to someone else for a feeding. 

But if you can "get it right", it is so much easier than formula -- nothing to buy, nothing to sterilize or mix, nothing to warm up or transport, nothing to wash.  You can even breastfeed in your sleep; did it lots of times.

Babies poop a lot. People talk about babies pooping and fussing a lot. The fussing is definitely on the higher end of the spectrum, but the poop is to be expected.
Yeah, if you're using disposable diapers, they should be easy.

Fussing babies, that's a problem.
This is excellent advice for new parents. Spouse and I had the mistaken idea that we'd both be up with the baby, in the spirit of egalitarianism. I wouldn't do that again. Divide & conquer would be our motto now.
Yeah, that's the kind of thing that sounds like great advice -- before the baby arrives.  Taking turns is the way to go; take care of each other and know that this newborn period won't last forever.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: ToTheMoon on December 31, 2017, 09:09:06 PM
 
Is my wife crazy to consider taking a vacation with an infant? Am I crazy thinking it doesn't sound like a vacation at all and is going to just be a big stressful waste of time and money?

Your wife is not crazy at all to be considering taking a vacation with baby.  Sometimes the best part of a vacation is the planning stage.  You guys are up to your ears in sleep deprivation, poop, and new baby chaos - perhaps planning a trip somewhere would allow you both to focus on something else for a few minutes a day?  Planning it does not mean that you have to book it tomorrow.  You are still allowed to dream, and when you all settle into a more manageable routine you can decide whether or not to hit "GO" on your booking.

It definitely can be done, but how enjoyable it will be depends on knowing yourselves (and as much as you can about the needs of your infant) and having realistic expectations.

When our first was 10 weeks old (I just checked my email for confirmation of the dates) we booked a 3 week backpacking trip to Ecuador leaving just before our DS turned 5 months.  Things that worked in our favour: he was exclusively breastfed at the time, so food was not an issue.  (We had also been to South America before, and knew that Huggies diapers are everywhere and if absolutely needed, formula & jars of baby food were available in the grocery stores.)  It also worked out that our son was happiest and slept well when being carried around, so us walking/exploring for 3 weeks with him strapped to one of us was almost ideal! 

I carried DS on my front in an Ergobaby carrier with the backpack attachment, with a 50L backpack on my back.  DH carried the 65L pack with his stuff and the full size travel crib in it (6lb Phil & Teds Traveller - which was awesome BTW!)  Moving around was easy business.  The part we didn't consider was that we would be in our room by 6-7pm most nights to put baby down to bed.  That was different - but we read lots of books and tried to learn Spanish by watching tv shows together.  We were new parents and didn't know what we were doing - that wasn't going to change based on location!

We went backpacking again when he was 12 months, and spent 2 weeks in Panama.  Another awesome time.  Then, we had child #2.  We knew right away that he was happiest at home, with a routine - and we haven't backpacked since. (He is now almost 6 and we are planning to take them both somewhere in the next year or two.)  Know yourselves, make your best guess as to what the two of you and your child can handle, and start dreaming together.  You can always pull the trigger later on, and end up somewhere you never would have imagined! . . .or stay home, but at least you gave it valid consideration :D
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: englishteacheralex on January 01, 2018, 01:21:01 AM

The benedryl thing...I asked my OB if it was a bad idea and she shrugged. A ton of my girlfriends all do the same thing. Doesn't seem to have been habit forming. Maybe just a placebo. Anyway, it was a life saver for #2 and I wish I had known about it for #1.
Do not drug your baby.

 

OH! Another thing I wished I'd known: breastfeeding isn't everything it's cracked up to be. There's a ton of pressure on moms to do it, but once the reality of the night feeding and working/pumping hit me, formula became my best friend.
Disagree.  Breastfeeding was worth it for the convenience, worth it for the health benefits, worth it for the savings ... but it is NOT automatic; it takes real effort to learn to do it.  And it's NOT easy to quantify; that is, unlike bottle feeders, you can't say, "My baby ate 4 ounces at 7:00 and another 4 ounces at noon", which can be tough if you're unsure about whether the baby's getting enough.  And it's tough that you can't pass the baby off to someone else for a feeding. 

But if you can "get it right", it is so much easier than formula -- nothing to buy, nothing to sterilize or mix, nothing to warm up or transport, nothing to wash.  You can even breastfeed in your sleep; did it lots of times.

Of course I wouldn't give benedryl to the baby! It was for me! One thing most of my mom friends commiserate about is how hard it is to get back to sleep after the night wakings, even if the baby goes right back down. We all resorted to taking benedryl so that it was easier for us to get back to sleep.

As for breastfeeding, if I hadn't had to go back to work, I'd probably have kept doing exclusive breast feeding. But after a while it really gets old even when you're SAHM-ing it. I got two free breast pumps--one for each pregnancy, but I hated pumping.

The OP's wife is a SAHM, so breastfeeding is a totally different thing in that case. I just got to a point where I realized that I could work full time, or I could breast feed, but trying to do both was too much. And when I stopped feeling an obsession with the baby never having formula, life got a lot easier for everyone.

Like a lot of people, I don't make that much milk--pumping didn't really solve much for me. Formula did.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Hula Hoop on January 01, 2018, 02:24:53 AM
I can really relate to your wife.  With both my kids, I was ready to pull my hair out from lack of sleep when they were 2 months old.  Second one had colic and reflux and was just a mess.  You can tell her that things generally get easier from around the 12 week mark.  I remember reading that in one of my baby books and it made it easier psychologically to know that there were better (sleep) times ahead).  Unfortunately, my second kid remained a terrible sleeper until around 2 years but the first one definitely improved at around 12 weeks.

As far as vacations, unfortunately, once we become parents, vacations are no longer really vacations the way they were pre-kids.  The only set up I can think of that would actually be a vacation would be an all inclusive resort with a kids' camp but we have never done that as we mostly use vacation to visit family and friends. 

As someone commented above, a vacation with a 4 month old actually sounds more relaxing in many ways that with a toddler.  At least at 4 months the kid won't be mobile and into everything.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: frugledoc on January 01, 2018, 03:25:47 AM
Can definitely relate as we have a 5 month old (and a 3.5 year old).

My wife feels very trapped at the moment.    I would say she would be very envious of your wife having her mum help 1 day a week and a friend helping 1 day a week,  that is an awesome thing to have. Unfortunately, we have nobody helping which creates an almost unbearable pressure for my wife.

My concern would be that if you go on holiday, your wife will actually find it worse as she is losing those two days of help.

If you do go away, I wold airbnb a flat or a lodge somewhere within 2 - 3 hours driving distance.

People who are relaxed and laid back about travelling with kids often seem to have a lot of support in their home life, so are less stressed and better slept as a baseline.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Last Night on January 01, 2018, 01:00:25 PM
Travelling with an infant is doable, personally I don't think it's worth it.

We traveled with our 7 month old (5 hour flight each way) thankfully the plane provided us a built in bassinet, that helped, but then it's all the little shit that simply takes the "fun" out of traveling.  Had to carry bottle sterilizer equipment, portable play pen, a ton of junk.  When wife and I used to travel it was just carry ons for anything up to a week...forget that now.

OP your situation sounds pretty rough, I think travelling at this point or in a couple of months is only going to make a bad situation worse.  Also the kid shouldn't be crying all day long, i will second what people said here and focus on resolving whatever issue your kid currently has and focus on giving your wife time away from baby.  People coming over to help is nice, but the mother bears so much of the work of raising a child that being there and supporting them is nice, but in the grand scheme of things it's a drop in the bucket.  She needs time to herself to get the chance to get herself together. It's a thankless job, especially in the beginning for first time mothers.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: me1 on January 01, 2018, 02:01:53 PM
Don't mind all these people who never had babies that screamed for no reason, were fed, were warm, were clean, and yet still not happy. People think that their experience is the only possible experience and that what worked for their baby will work for any other baby. This is simply not true. There was a lot of crying for no apparent reason when my son was a baby.  Actually that was most of the crying.  He is a very happy school aged kid right now! So it all turned out ok. But it was rough! Hang in there.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: kimmarg on January 01, 2018, 06:15:18 PM
 Get your wife (and you!) evaluated for post partum depression/anxiety. I know you think it's just the lack of sleep, you think it's just the stage. Yes, the kid will get better BUT YOU CAN TOO.  I also could barely function without help. I stupidly refused meds and help for 4 months. Only thing I regret as a parent. Having a baby is hard. It does not have to be THIS hard.  Please, please, please talk to your doc/obgyn/whomever and find out of counseling or anti depressants is a good choice for you. I've been there, I would have loved a vacation but yea the stress and screaming and diapers wont go away in the tropics. THe diapers and screaming may not go away, but the stress can.
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: Acorns on January 01, 2018, 09:33:34 PM
A mom on vacation is just a mom doing her job someplace other than home. I agree with all the other posters that now is not the time for a vacation, at least not the tropical cruise type vacation. I am just (barely) further along than the newborn stage with my youngest, and we have not done much traveling with him at all. A couple car trips to see family, no flights. With my older children we did some flights to see family when they were babies and it went fine, but a "vacation" it was not.

This is your first child, right? Becoming a mom is really really REALLY hard! Physically, emotionally, etc. And though it gets easier in some ways when the kid starts sleeping better, no stage of parenting is "easy," or so I've heard, my oldest is only 6, so maybe things get way easier at 7 and I can kick back on the couch with some vino and bonbons. It sounds to me like your wife needs to find her support structure, some other mom friends with kids in the same age range as yours, who can commiserate and support her in her day to day life. It's awesome that she has her mom and a friend helping out (that's way more than I've ever had), but she needs to find her "tribe". My church sponsors a MOPS (Moms of Preschoolers) group which is open for the community (you don't have to be religious or a church member) and is AWESOME! They bring in various parenting/child development/health speakers, it has childcare and also food. Its like parenting education and friendship together.

As others have said, your wife should make an appointment with her OBGYN or midwife or other provider to be evaluated for PPD. Speaking from experience, it's way better to get help than wallow in uncontrollable emotions. Getting your baby checked out for reflux might also be a good idea, but some babies are just more high needs than others. You are at the peak time for colic, if that is what's going on. Also, check out Wonder Weeks (an app, also a book, lots of info online). I found that my babies' fussy times often coincided with a wonder week, and it's kind of helpful to know, hey, my baby is not intentionally screaming to drive me crazy, they are going through this developmental leap and they can't help it!
Title: Re: Wife wants to vacation with new baby
Post by: bogart on January 01, 2018, 10:03:38 PM
I'm sorry (but not surprised) that the early months of parenting are proving so challenging -- they are, indeed, hard (or at least, can be in a way that is well within the "oh that's just how things are" frame, the folks who report that their babies started regularly sleeping through the night at 2 weeks notwithstanding...).

That said, though I haven't read all the other replies (but I did read your replies in this thread) I concur with others who've suggested that touching base with a medical professional re: baby and mom (and your) well-being and whether there are factors that merit attention (could be GERD, could be food allergies, could be PPD) is worth doing.

I also agree that formula and out-of-your-home daycare might be good options.  On the first -- I was another mom who struggled with supply (and used a lot more formula than your wife is needing to supplement, if memory serves), and who was nursing and pumping and supplementing and OMG it was exhausting.  In retrospect, I wish I'd been a bit more accepting of how little milk my body produced (had kept nursing, but not done so much pumping trying to up supply); the work I put into that didn't really accomplish much.  But I did go back to work (initially p/t) at 2 months and that was by far the best decision I ever made.  Being out of the home, and having baby in a good daycare, was a total sanity-saver for me.  Is this an option for/of interest to your wife?  Of course it may not be -- but if it is, well worth exploring/supporting.

As for a vacation with a baby ... a few years back, there was a (funny) post that went around about whether something was a trip or a vacation, and basically, if you're the parent and the group travelling includes one of your kids, it's a trip, not a vacation.  And really, IMO, this is true, though now that my son is in his second decade, that is starting ... starting ... to change.  But no matter where you are, you are always the mom or dad, and the kid is always a kid, and there's just no way around it.  And yes, they do have special equipment needs (as compared to adults), and diets (ditto), and safety concerns, etc. 

(All that said, we did, and do, travel with ours -- we went to visit grandparents about a 10- and 5-hour drive away (different trips, opposite directions) when ours was about the age of yours, and it was fine.  We didn't fly until he was maybe 9 months old, though, but have done so repeatedly since.  There is actually a lot to be said for enjoying traveling before they are self-propelled, because that introduces a whole bunch of other complications into matters.  But travelling won't improve sleep schedules, or eating patterns, or anything much, really -- rather, the reverse in my experience)

So ... long story short, no, I probably wouldn't choose to travel, at least not in the way you describe (aiming for a vacation), at that age.  But I would see if there's a way your wife (and you, if possible) can get a break (even a night or weekend away from the house, without baby, if that isn't a horrifying thing to contemplate, though I totally understand it could be and that's OK too).

And it really does get better.  I loved the Happiest Baby on the Block book not so much for the advice it offered as for the point it made about how human babies really are born at an absurdly early developmental stage, and would do much better if they could gestate for an entire year (except of course that given our head size, that wouldn't work), and figuring that that first 3 months on the outside was really just something for both of us to get through did help me, even if it wasn't the most romantic/glossy understanding of new parenthood.  Hang in there, and good luck.