Author Topic: Why would I do aquaponics?  (Read 6931 times)

Linea_Norway

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Why would I do aquaponics?
« on: November 11, 2016, 02:13:40 PM »
Hi.

Today I learned on this website about the existance of aquaponics. It sounds interesting, combining fish and vegetables.

My HB and I are just normal people with the tiniest herb garden. And we like to eat self caught fish. I could imagine making a small aquaponic setup for growing fish and vegetables for food for ourselves, as an addition for what we have in the garden. We would have place in the garden or in the house for a small setup.

But what I don't find on the internet is why we should do it. Is it fun to grow some vegetables and some herbs above fish? How big does it need to be to provide some food for yourselves? Is it worth the cost and the hassle? I suppose the system needs warmth, light and fish food. I could image that for example the heating cost in the winter would be higher than the win on eating your own fish instead of food from the store. I am not thinking about selling anything.

Linda

lthenderson

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2016, 02:24:10 PM »
I have a friend who raises tilapia (several hundred at a time) and is gettign into aquaponics. The biggest reason is that he must pay a steep fee to dump unfiltered water into the sanitary sewer. By using aquaponics to filter the water, he can reuse it and skip the fees. This spring he planted several garden vegetables in floating pieces of styrofoam in water drained from his fish tanks and grew the same stuff in his regular garden. The aquaponic stuff grew twice as fast and was much better looking produce. It certainly convince me looking at it that there was definitely an advantage.

As far as hassle or cost, I'm not sure his setup provides any cost advantage to just getting it from the grocery store. However, the reason I buy his fish is because I know how it was grown, what it consumed for food and it is fresh, (i.e. I use dip nets to catch what I want) when I get it. If he scales up his veggie aquaponic test next year, I would definitely buy some from him but again, it probably won't be at a cost savings.

Goldielocks

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2016, 02:27:45 PM »
Big.  Think Big.

Fun.  Lots of oxygen generating plants, indoors greenhouse effect with moisture, etc in winter.

A bit stinky / messy at times when working with it.

Environmentally satisfying...

Linea_Norway

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2016, 03:15:41 PM »
Thanks for your replies.
Knowing where your food comes from is certainly a good argument. Fish from the shops, like farmed salmon, is not as healthy as wild fish.
And environmentally friendly food is also great of course.

Syonyk

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2016, 10:16:22 PM »
Today I learned on this website about the existance of aquaponics. It sounds interesting, combining fish and vegetables.

Certainly!  It's a synthetic pond ecosystem, optimized for growing that which humans care about (protein and plants).

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But what I don't find on the internet is why we should do it.

I can't speak for other people.  I can only speak for why I am quite interested in the concept and plan to "go big" with it in a few years (the raised bed gardens are a higher priority for next year).

I'm planning on setting up a moderate greenhouse devoted to aquaponics, mostly for the ability to grow my own food (beyond just vegetables), and to have the knowledge to scale that production if needed.

I'm rather less optimistic about the future of the system we live in than many people here, and so I've been working towards an "early retirement through self production of many necessities" path, moreso than "put it all in index funds."  This means solar, gardens, tools, skills, etc.  Call it homesteading, call it what you will.  But, for me, a system capable of growing a lot of both fish and plants, in a dense system, year round?  Very valuable to me.

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Is it fun to grow some vegetables and some herbs above fish?

Better than having to filter the fish tank water regularly?

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How big does it need to be to provide some food for yourselves?

Do you consider herbs food?  Tiny.  Do you want to make a dent in your grocery bill?  Decently large.

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Is it worth the cost and the hassle? I suppose the system needs warmth, light and fish food. I could image that for example the heating cost in the winter would be higher than the win on eating your own fish instead of food from the store.

That depends on how you design and build the system, and what you want to grow.

Tilapia are a popular option because they sort of shrug off system failures that would kill other fish.  Koi are pretty good about that as well, and have the advantage of being worth a decent bit when grown (if you're looking for a cash stream).

Fish food, light, and warmth are certainly the requirements.  Light is easy - just use the sun.  Fish food can be somewhat expensive, depending on what you're growing, how.  Tilapia have an advantage here as well in that they'll eat just about anything.  You can toss kitchen scraps in and they'll chew it up.  I wouldn't toss fish in, just because that's a terrible loop in terms of diseases and such, but other stuff?  Sure.

For heat, I'm planning to do a rocket stove with substantial thermal mass, then probably propane backup.  The primary heat will come from biomass - heat the rocket stove in the morning when needed, and heat the greenhouse and the fish water during the day on waste heat.  If I can insulate it well enough to get a few days of low grade heat, so much the better.

I have a friend who raises tilapia (several hundred at a time) and is gettign into aquaponics. The biggest reason is that he must pay a steep fee to dump unfiltered water into the sanitary sewer. By using aquaponics to filter the water, he can reuse it and skip the fees.

Very nice!  Yes, aquaponics solves the "flush the system" annoyances of both aquaculture and hydroponics quite nicely.

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As far as hassle or cost, I'm not sure his setup provides any cost advantage to just getting it from the grocery store. However, the reason I buy his fish is because I know how it was grown, what it consumed for food and it is fresh, (i.e. I use dip nets to catch what I want) when I get it. If he scales up his veggie aquaponic test next year, I would definitely buy some from him but again, it probably won't be at a cost savings.

Knowing the source of your food seems increasingly important.  Now that we've got a huge food company merged with a huge medical company, the incentives there are... perverse, at best.

I don't really expect it be cheaper than fish or vegetables from the store - just better, and radically more resilient.

cerat0n1a

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2016, 02:52:51 AM »

I'm rather less optimistic about the future of the system we live in than many people here, and so I've been working towards an "early retirement through self production of many necessities" path, moreso than "put it all in index funds."  This means solar, gardens, tools, skills, etc.  Call it homesteading, call it what you will.  But, for me, a system capable of growing a lot of both fish and plants, in a dense system, year round?  Very valuable to me.

[snipped...]

I don't really expect it be cheaper than fish or vegetables from the store - just better, and radically more resilient.

Thanks for a very interesting post. Here, hydroponics is mostly the preserve of people who want to grow the kind of plants that they don't want the police and other people to see and aquaponics is just getting started - there's a couple of big commercial experiments producing trout for example.

On your resilience angle though - struggling to see a future in which say food supplies might be unreliable but where it's still possible to source pumps, filters, glass, propane etc.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2016, 06:18:55 AM »
@Syonyk
Thanks for your long answer. I discussed it with my husband. We concluded that if there is no money to be saved, that can better grow vegetables in our own garden, without having fish below them. Plants don't require anything else than sunlight and rainwater. We should only start thinking about making this garden patch bigger when we become pensioners. The fish we can catch ourselves in fresh water rivers (trout) or in the Oslo fjord (sea trout and cod). We like to go fishing anyway.

Syonyk

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2016, 01:21:06 PM »
On your resilience angle though - struggling to see a future in which say food supplies might be unreliable but where it's still possible to source pumps, filters, glass, propane etc.

My goal is to do it with low tech materials where possible, and things that can be scavenged easily enough.

Pumps: Fairly reliable, easy to obtain even if one has to find used pumps.  You can use an automotive water pump from the junkyard, if you really need.  There are gobs of ways to pump water.  I mean, worst case, you can do it with a bucket, but that'd require things to be pretty far down the backslope.

Filters: You're missing the entire point of aquaponics.  The grow beds are the filters.

Glass: Once the greenhouse is built, not really needed regularly.  Also, one can easily do aquaponics outside in the nicer weather - just have a smaller year round setup with the rest living outside, and drain for the winter.

Propane: A mere convenience.  If I've got a biomass and solar based system, propane would be for when I go out of town.  If I need to rely on production, I'm probably not traveling that much.

A one time or rare need to find materials in exchange for ongoing continuous food production seems useful to me.

You can also go full circle and grow your own fishfood - duckweed is a popular one for tilapia.

I hope it's just an interesting hobby.  But if I need more reliability out of it, I want to have the knowledge to scale.

MayDay

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2016, 04:11:39 AM »
The high school in our town has a setup that the environmental science class designed and built.

They have tilapia, and in the winter they heat it with compost. They run a hose through a big compost pile, and hot water comes out the end.

The fish and vegetables are served in the cafeteria.

Meanwhile at my house, we have 3 goldfish that refuse to die. I'm thinking about pitta few heads of lettuce on top of them just for fun.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2016, 05:27:47 AM »
And we already have started composting. For now, we use it for creating new soil.

Syonyk

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2016, 06:46:24 AM »
I hadn't even thought about compost heating. That's brilliant!

Rubyvroom

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2016, 07:01:42 AM »
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this already but a huge reason to go with aquaponics for food production is water conservation. Aquaponics (when done right) uses ~90% less water than traditional farming.

There is a rather large aquaponics farm in Wisconsin that we visited one weekend. They provide educational classes as well. I don't know if I'm allowed to mention their name (I'm not trying to advertise in any way), but I can PM anyone that's interested. It was a VERY cool setup and showed us how this can be done on a large scale. They also sell pre-built systems (small, medium, large, etc.) to help people become aquaponics entrepreneurs and start their own businesses. The classes seem a bit pricey to me but it's absolutely worth the $10 to take the tour.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2016, 07:38:20 AM »
I read about that and I can imagine that is a great benefit for real farmers.

For me, having just a patch of vegetables in the garden, it is less relevant. We usually have enough rain for them.

Syonyk

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2016, 07:54:53 AM »
Ah, yeah, if you've got enough rain, then "plants in the ground" is pretty straightforward.

I'm in a desert, so the lower water use is a benefit to me as well (entirely forgot to mention that, I suppose).

Kitsune

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2016, 08:14:56 AM »
I'm really interested in setting up an aquaponics set-up next year (depending on cash flow, for a variety of reasons).

For us:
- The local grocery store is 25km away, and thinks that a 'sale' on fish is 8$/lb. Fish is also one of the only meat-based foods  that everyone in the house will eat.
- Basil, salad greens, spinach, etc don't do well in our garden - we're in a high-wind area with frosts to mid-June, so having a protected space to grow these things would be nice.
- If we're building a small greenhouse ANYWAY for any leafy greens that don't do well here and are expensive at the store (2.50 for lettuce, 3$ for a bunch of basil, wtf), then having fish for less than 8$/lb seems like a reasonable goal.

kpd905

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2016, 06:09:18 PM »
Ah, yeah, if you've got enough rain, then "plants in the ground" is pretty straightforward.

I'm in a desert, so the lower water use is a benefit to me as well (entirely forgot to mention that, I suppose).

You might want to look into aeroponics, it sprays nutrient water in a fine mist at the plant roots, usually in an enclosed barrel.  It supposedly uses 98% less water.

This is a pretty cool video about aeroponics working in Wisconsin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4gsnFJRAB0

Syonyk

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2016, 06:16:08 PM »
I want the fish too.

With This Herring

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2016, 07:40:54 AM »
I'm really interested in setting up an aquaponics set-up next year (depending on cash flow, for a variety of reasons).

For us:
- The local grocery store is 25km away, and thinks that a 'sale' on fish is 8$/lb. Fish is also one of the only meat-based foods  that everyone in the house will eat.
- Basil, salad greens, spinach, etc don't do well in our garden - we're in a high-wind area with frosts to mid-June, so having a protected space to grow these things would be nice.
- If we're building a small greenhouse ANYWAY for any leafy greens that don't do well here and are expensive at the store (2.50 for lettuce, 3$ for a bunch of basil, wtf), then having fish for less than 8$/lb seems like a reasonable goal.

Until you get your aquaponics setup, you can grow basil in a pot by your sunniest window.  At indoor temperatures it is difficult to kill, unless you drop a window fan on it (whoops), and just requires way more water than you would think it should plus a little liquid houseplant fertilizer every few months or so.  I had one basil plant that lasted YEARS (until a fan incident) and ended its life with a thick, woody main stem.

Are the fish raised via aquaponics suitable for sushi/sashimi use?
How do you know which fish to harvest?  Do you just pick the biggest ones?
Does aquaponics still work if no one removes (and eats) the fish?

I think the idea of aquaponics is pretty neat.

Syonyk

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2016, 07:57:48 AM »
Are the fish raised via aquaponics suitable for sushi/sashimi use?

I assume they would be.  Why wouldn't they?

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How do you know which fish to harvest?  Do you just pick the biggest ones?

Mostly.  Or whichever one you can get in the net first.

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Does aquaponics still work if no one removes (and eats) the fish?

Yes - some people use decorative fish (Koi or such) for the fish, though often they're grown to sell, since a grown Koi is worth a decent bit.

Kitsune

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2016, 08:07:04 AM »
Until you get your aquaponics setup, you can grow basil in a pot by your sunniest window.  At indoor temperatures it is difficult to kill, unless you drop a window fan on it (whoops), and just requires way more water than you would think it should plus a little liquid houseplant fertilizer every few months or so.  I had one basil plant that lasted YEARS (until a fan incident) and ended its life with a thick, woody main stem.

Yeah, that's what we currently do - the small kitchen window gets lots of sunlight, and we have thyme, oregano, and basil growing in it. The problem is that the quantity of basil we produce with that is suitable for, like, pasta toppings, and the occasional salad. Not huge armfulls of leaves to be turned into pesto.

And even then, don't you find the taste of the basil changes when it starts getting woody? I have to re-start my plants every 6 months or so because the flavor seems to have changed.

With This Herring

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2016, 09:32:24 AM »
Are the fish raised via aquaponics suitable for sushi/sashimi use?

I assume they would be.  Why wouldn't they?

I don't know?  I know so little about either topic (except that sushi = delicious), so I don't know how one judges whether fish is sashimi-grade except that it can't be too long dead.

Until you get your aquaponics setup, you can grow basil in a pot by your sunniest window.  At indoor temperatures it is difficult to kill, unless you drop a window fan on it (whoops), and just requires way more water than you would think it should plus a little liquid houseplant fertilizer every few months or so.  I had one basil plant that lasted YEARS (until a fan incident) and ended its life with a thick, woody main stem.

Yeah, that's what we currently do - the small kitchen window gets lots of sunlight, and we have thyme, oregano, and basil growing in it. The problem is that the quantity of basil we produce with that is suitable for, like, pasta toppings, and the occasional salad. Not huge armfulls of leaves to be turned into pesto.

And even then, don't you find the taste of the basil changes when it starts getting woody? I have to re-start my plants every 6 months or so because the flavor seems to have changed.

Oh, pesto?  You're right; I don't have such high usage.  I might use a third of a cup of leaves for bruschetta at a time.  I can't keep up with my plant's production.

I don't notice any change in taste, but I don't have a cultured palate (and I don't eat it in such a concentrated form as pesto).  I try to snip off any buds before they flower, and I tend to only cut newer-growth leaves for eating, but that's about it.  Another possibility is maybe we have different varieties of basil?  I don't know how much flavor and the effects of age vary between varieties.

GuitarStv

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2016, 09:36:34 AM »
Weed, man.  Weed.

zombiehunter

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2016, 09:44:55 AM »
@Syonyk
Thanks for your long answer. I discussed it with my husband. We concluded that if there is no money to be saved, that can better grow vegetables in our own garden, without having fish below them. Plants don't require anything else than sunlight and rainwater. We should only start thinking about making this garden patch bigger when we become pensioners. The fish we can catch ourselves in fresh water rivers (trout) or in the Oslo fjord (sea trout and cod). We like to go fishing anyway.
This isn't really true, especially over time.  If you plant a garden this year, it will produce, but over time, the plants will use up the nutrients from the soil.  You will have to add "inputs", whether it be manufactured fertilizer purchased from your local big box store, or some combination or organic fertilizer in the form of finished compost with manure and other organic matter. 

As a result, if you ONLY grow vegetables, you will have to spend money to introduce those inputs, or over time the productivity of your garden and underlying soil will decline.  Now you mentioned that you will compost, but if you are only composting bits of the same plants and veggies you already grew, you won't have enough organic matter to sustain the garden. 

In contrast, if you also raise some form of animals -- whether that be fish in an aquaponics system, or chickens for manure and eggs and meat, or rabbits, goats, etc. -- your garden will be more than self sufficient, such that the productivity will increase over time.  Every year you will get more and more yield out of the same area.  You can think about it roughly as:  growing plants only is ~80% sustainable, as you'll need to add 20% every year in the form of fertilizer or manure.  Or, if you also grow fish/chickens, your garden will be 110% sustainable, because productivity and fertility will increase over time.  A key difference is that you'll have to buy inputs for your vegetables gardens, but will animals you will also need to buy inputs for the fish food.  With chickens, you can decrease the amount of food you have to buy for them by feeding them scraps and letting the forage for insects. 

Aquaponics is simply one way to increase sustainability and productivity in a vegetable garden.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 09:58:40 AM by zombiehunter »

AlanStache

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2016, 10:55:57 AM »
Recently started looking at making a small hydroponic system to get a steady supply of leafy greens without having to go to the store.  And it looks rather cool.  DIY parts lists are under 100$, less if you can scrounge.  (http://www.just4growers.com/stream/hydroponic-growing-techniques/how-to-build-your-own-flood-and-drain-(ebb-and-flow)-system.aspx)

Aquaponics does sound really really cool but I think i will start small and simple to learn a bit then move up as am able. 

weed - yes is amazingly openly discussed on some of the hydro web sites.  where I work is fairly chill but I definitely did not click a few links :-)

Rubyvroom

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2016, 11:10:18 AM »
My SO toyed around with a DIY system at home. Be prepared to kill some fish while you work out the science of it. There's quite a bit of work that goes into creating the perfect environment for the fish.

And of course, our fish all died when we were out of town and a pump went out... ~_~

AlanStache

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2016, 11:16:08 AM »
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this already but a huge reason to go with aquaponics for food production is water conservation. Aquaponics (when done right) uses ~90% less water than traditional farming.

There is a rather large aquaponics farm in Wisconsin that we visited one weekend. They provide educational classes as well. I don't know if I'm allowed to mention their name (I'm not trying to advertise in any way), but I can PM anyone that's interested. It was a VERY cool setup and showed us how this can be done on a large scale. They also sell pre-built systems (small, medium, large, etc.) to help people become aquaponics entrepreneurs and start their own businesses. The classes seem a bit pricey to me but it's absolutely worth the $10 to take the tour.

What is the name of the place?  Never seen an issue with naming names here so long as you are not out and out selling for them or otherwise being mean.

Rubyvroom

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2016, 03:56:46 PM »
What is the name of the place?  Never seen an issue with naming names here so long as you are not out and out selling for them or otherwise being mean.

Roger that. Wasn't sure what the rules were there. Didn't want y'all to think I worked for them or something :P

Nelson and Pade, Inc.

They have this all down to a science. They seem to really want to further this method of farming, so they're focused on education and helping people start their own businesses. They sell equipment as well as full systems. We've looked at the smaller system and thought about buying it, but we have nowhere good to put it. It might be something we try to work into our FIRE plans after we're in a different living setup.

hollyluja

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2016, 03:29:05 PM »
Have they solved the taste issue yet?  My biggest hydroponics or aquaponics issue is that all the veggies come out tasting like water.  The worst offenders are carrots, tomatoes, and cucumbers IMO.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Why would I do aquaponics?
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2016, 12:40:39 AM »
Have they solved the taste issue yet?  My biggest hydroponics or aquaponics issue is that all the veggies come out tasting like water.  The worst offenders are carrots, tomatoes, and cucumbers IMO.

Is that perhaps caused by the lack of sunlight? I thought tomatoes got much of their taste from sunlight.