Author Topic: Why Retire?  (Read 9927 times)

SnackDog

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1260
  • Location: Latin America
Why Retire?
« on: May 28, 2013, 05:59:31 AM »
....

Am I missing something?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 10:44:56 AM by SnackDog »

lauren_knows

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Annandale, VA, USA
  • Happiness is a choice
    • The Crowdsourced FIRE simulator
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2013, 06:03:22 AM »
Am I missing something?

Probably not.  You seem to take great personal satisfaction for your job, and feel that it improves actually improves your life.  If you don't have some inkling in the back of your mind that you "don't have time for the things you love" because of your job, then you're not missing anything.

A lot of people in this forum have a job that they don't necessarily love, or that they don't find it fulfilling. Also, a lot of people on this forum have a long list of things that they'd rather be doing or find that they currently don't have enough time for.


limeandpepper

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4569
  • Location: Australasia
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2013, 06:15:42 AM »
I don't have a problem with anyone who chooses not to retire...

I can't imagine giving up and shuffling around the house another 50 years.  There is such lost potential for achievement and for contributing my limited energy during my active years.  I'll retire when I'm out of energy!  Retiring early seems like a cop-out to me.

But I find it odd that you think retiring means giving up and shuffling around the house. Does MMM look like a useless, unmotivated, unproductive, lazy shuffler to you? :p

happy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9375
  • Location: NSW Australia
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2013, 06:55:48 AM »


Am I missing something?

Yup, having a meaningful, action packed, fun retirement.  Of course if your job is just as meaningful, action packed, and  fun maybe you could consider your job your retirement hobby.

daverobev

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3964
  • Location: France
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2013, 07:16:04 AM »
Lucky you - you've found what millions and millions of office drones have no hope of. Congratulations!

aj_yooper

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1090
  • Age: 12
  • Location: Chicagoland
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2013, 07:29:20 AM »

I can't imagine how we will spend money in the future.  I forecast using Excel and unless we become spendthrifts, which we are not, I can't see us spending it all.  I reckon we'll have to crank up some charitable giving. I like jcollinsnh's thoughts on starting a Vanguard charity account now when taxes are high.

Am I missing something?

Sounds like you already decided what is best for your enjoy working FI.  Do a Warren Buffet move and encourage others to put together a Vanguard charity account.

matchewed

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4422
  • Location: CT
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2013, 07:31:29 AM »
If you enjoy what you're doing and feel no reason to retire early then don't. Congratulations :)

directionseeker

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 107
  • Location: Singapore
    • Let's Retire!
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2013, 07:41:05 AM »
I am enjoying my job too although I just started my journey to my early retirement. I don't think you are missing out anything if you are enjoying your work and contributing your own talent to the society.

I think the idea of early retirement is the power to choose, you get to choose what you want to do with your life. It is not about hating your job or travel around the world. I believe millions of people out there might not feel the same as you when it come to their job. To them it is a vehicle to pay their bill and it is a suffering they need to go through to get the reward at the end of the month.

I set a 5 years retirement goal for myself and looking forward to that day to come but at the same time I am thinking I might not quit my job the day I realize my investment income cross my expense level because I am enjoying my work and helping my customer to solve their problem. My work directly helping the organisation that hired my service and indirectly contribute to the society because the organisation I serviced now able to provide a better service to their customer.

Anyway, it is good to see another happy worker around in this forum. Welcome and enjoy your stay here.

Heather

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 79
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2013, 07:42:38 AM »
More power to you! 
As for what to do with extra money or energy, I've seen some people around here create amazing things. Nakkertok ski club for instance was created on land donated by several families who wanted to make something great.  The Ottawa River Canoe club and  the Burnstown Cafe are a couple of other gems.  There must be many more.  The quality of life in our area is so much enhanced by people who have focused their enthusiasm and big ideas towards making excellent things for others to share.

brewer12345

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1381
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2013, 09:31:24 AM »
sloan, sounds like you have found the holy grail.  Good for you!  Keep up the savings so that you can bail if the job changes or disappears.  Otherwise, enjoy yourself.

I was never that lucky in my career.  I've had interesting jobs, lucrative jobs, and sometimes both.  However, I have also dealt with amountain of stress that has taken a toll on me and taken me away from family and things I would much rather spend time on.  My current job is a dead end and as I approach 40 it is hard to imagine reinventing myself again for the next leg of a demanding career, so I am eagerly awaiting when I bail next year.  There are tons of things I will have to do when I kill the day job, so much so that I don't think I will have time to do them all.  When you get tired of your present career/lifestyle, remember that there is a lot more to life than a day job.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 09:33:29 AM by brewer12345 »

Cecil

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 301
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Vancouver, Canada
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2013, 09:36:27 AM »
Quote
Am I missing something?

Nope, congratulations! You are already retired, and have found a fun, meaningful, engaging hobby to take up your time! Just make sure you truly understand that

Quote
I plan to work 13 more years to hit the magic number for maximum company-funded healthcare on retirement.  My salary and pension benefits will rise significant faster in the last part of my career than it did during the first half.  I only just became eligible for stock options and definitely want to stick around to collect some as the company stock performance has been segment leading for years.

none of this matters one bit because you have more money than you can spend already, and that

Quote
I believe in this company and the potential it has to do good.  I like motivating others regarding their jobs and assisting them in finding fulfillment in their careers.

this is the real reason you go to the office every day.

Be careful not to let the desire for more money than you can spend obscure what's really important, your happiness and a sense of fulfilment and purpose.

Jamesqf

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4038
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2013, 11:18:39 AM »
But I find it odd that you think retiring means giving up and shuffling around the house.

But that IS what retirement means to and for the vast majority of people, possibly with the addition of time spent on the golf course.

Quote
Does MMM look like a useless, unmotivated, unproductive, lazy shuffler to you? :p

But (here come the IRP :-)) he's not retired, except by his own re-definition of the word.

For the OP, I completely agree.  I enjoy the work I do, though I wouldn't want to do it to the exclusion of everything else in my life.  I like getting paid to do it, too.  Even though I'm reasonably FI, you never know when the unexpected will happen (that's why it's called the unexpected :-)), and that little bit extra in the stash will come in real handy.

jdoolin

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 155
  • Location: Eastern Ohio
    • Just My Blog
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2013, 12:15:47 PM »
I believe in dedication and hard work.  I believe in this company and the potential it has to do good.  I like motivating others regarding their jobs and assisting them in finding fulfillment in their careers.  I feel tired at the end of the day and sometimes frustrated, but that's life.  I can't imagine giving up and shuffling around the house another 50 years.  There is such lost potential for achievement and for contributing my limited energy during my active years.  I'll retire when I'm out of energy!  Retiring early seems like a cop-out to me.  I've know a few people who had meltdowns and retired early but most of them ended up back at work in under five years.

This is the only part of your post I have an issue with.  The assumption that you must work a full time job to be "dedicated and [work hard]".  That you can't motivate others regarding their jobs or assist them in finding fulfillment unless you're employed.  That you must shuffle around the house for 50 years.  That there is lost potential for achievement or contributing.

I would argue that the old "do nothing but sit around" retirement is a dated concept that was adequate for a time long past.  It's obvious to anyone who has done the reading or research that this kind of retirement is not particularly healthy, and that if you look closely enough, those "traditional" retirees who are healthy are actually doing some kind of work on a regular basis, even if they don't get paid for it.

This is why I think MMM's redefinition of retirement is perfectly adequate.  It's thoughts like his that challenge the status quo and start movements.  You can take the old definition and pile it up with other dated traditions like dowries, cemeteries and passing down plots of land to only first born sons.  Words take on new definitions as societies and cultures change, develop and relate with each other.

I plan on being even more active and productive during "retirement" than I do now.  It's just that A) it won't  be mandatory, B) it will be on my time and C) I may or may not be paid for it.  The things I want to do may not pay at all.  I'd like to start and/or actively participate in youth organizations, to get young people more interested in mathematics and science, particularly in my area.  I'd like to teach people to cook and eat healthy.  I'd like to play music as much as possible.  I would continue software development.  But I want MUCH more time to socialize with family and friends.  40 hours per week isn't for me.  I think we're capable of being very productive without spending nearly 1/3 of our lives at a job.  For some people that's just fine, but not me.

TwoWheels

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 79
  • Age: 34
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2013, 05:29:45 PM »
Well put, jdoolin. That's a great description of MMM-style retirement.

DocCyane

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 389
  • Location: USA
  • Keep going. You're doing just fine.
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2013, 07:42:12 PM »
I used to believe in dedication and hard work, and then I realized it got me nowhere. Despite intense efforts on my part, I didn't get a pay raise.i wouldn't be promoted. And I sure as hell had no job security because I'm a disposable cog in the system. A year ago I was laid off, but luckily they made it as personal and demeaning as possible.

So the corporate rah-rah sounds pretty repulsive from here.

Glad it works for you. It's a shame you can't comprehend why it doesn't work for others.

limeandpepper

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4569
  • Location: Australasia
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2013, 08:36:49 PM »
+1 to jdoolin! May type more when I'm on my laptop but probably not necessary, you've covered it nicely. :)

lizzigee

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 84
  • Location: NZ
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2013, 02:21:22 AM »
Great OP except for the bit about what you assume retirement will be like for others.  Giving up and shuffling around the house - hell no!  I have no idea how I'm going to find the time to do all the things I want to do when I retire.  Most of my activities don't cost much money, and a lot of them I already do now in a small way, but I can't wait to retire so I can spread my wings and soar into a life of busyness by choice, not necessity!

If I had a globe-trotting, high-paying, soul-nourishing job like you though I probably would hold off on retirement for a while too.

another +1 to jdoolin . Very eloquent.

nktokyo

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2013, 02:42:18 AM »
I retired after 7 years (before I found this blog funnily enough). I spent two months decompressing, one month playing with my kid, 3 months traveling and now I'm "working" 4 or so days per week on some other ventures I've started up. I spending the rest of my time with my family or exercising. My wife runs her own business and is busy too, we have a great life - all the better for the very low level of financial stress.

I think the last point is a nice one to think about. A huge benefit of becoming financially independent is that it removes the pressure to survive and the uncertainty of depending on being allowed to continue to work in order to eat.

Several people on here could go back to work tomorrow full time if they found something worth spending 50 hours a week on, their spending habits are pretty established so all they would be doing is increasing the buffer between them and any financial mishap.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 07:46:51 PM by nktokyo »

netskyblue

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 637
  • Location: Midwest USA
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2013, 04:09:09 PM »
Good for you!  I've always viewed work as selling the hours of my life to someone else, and basically looked for the best price I could get, under the least undesirable circumstances.  And view retirement as owning my own life again (something I want desperately badly).

BPA

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1202
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2013, 07:38:17 AM »
Glad it worked for you.  Too bad you can't see that other people have different experiences than you do.

Try reading the blog before you think that "retirement" means shuffling around the house. 


Jamesqf

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4038
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2013, 11:25:25 AM »
Try reading the blog before you think that "retirement" means shuffling around the house.

Sorry, but this blog, or even all early retirement blogs combined, represents only a miniscule fraction of actual retired persons.  For the great majority, retirement IS shuffling around the house, spending hours on the golf course, or parking the RV in a different WalMart parking lot every night.

Even of the people here, only a small fraction are actually retired.  The rest are chasing a dream, and I think that when they do attain it, they're going to be disappointed.

footenote

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 801
  • MMMing in MN
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2013, 11:45:19 AM »
Try reading the blog before you think that "retirement" means shuffling around the house.

Sorry, but this blog, or even all early retirement blogs combined, represents only a miniscule fraction of actual retired persons.  For the great majority, retirement IS shuffling around the house, spending hours on the golf course, or parking the RV in a different WalMart parking lot every night.

Even of the people here, only a small fraction are actually retired.  The rest are chasing a dream, and I think that when they do attain it, they're going to be disappointed.

I'm "n of 1," but no "shuffling around the house" has been observed in my ER! Since "early retiring" eight years ago at 47, I worked at a non-profit for 2.5 years and then  created two start-ups. Both non-profit work and the start-ups were dream endeavors I could never have done without "retiring" from corporate life.

I agree the community here is a relatively small population. However, if their mileage is anything like to mine, those who are striving for FI/RE will not be disappointed. 

Khan

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 614
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2013, 06:27:52 PM »
Try reading the blog before you think that "retirement" means shuffling around the house.

Sorry, but this blog, or even all early retirement blogs combined, represents only a miniscule fraction of actual retired persons.  For the great majority, retirement IS shuffling around the house, spending hours on the golf course, or parking the RV in a different WalMart parking lot every night.

Even of the people here, only a small fraction are actually retired.  The rest are chasing a dream, and I think that when they do attain it, they're going to be disappointed.

I don't know that all of us are chasing retirement, whether the dream sort that MMM has, the small existence of Early Retirement Extreme, or shuffling around the house a la conventional retirement. I'm not chasing any of those, only the FI that allows me to be free of making the choices that I have to make today that compromise my values and my quality of life, to free myself from the drone corporatocracy that is the polar opposite of FI.

BPA

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1202
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2013, 07:03:17 PM »
Try reading the blog before you think that "retirement" means shuffling around the house.

Sorry, but this blog, or even all early retirement blogs combined, represents only a miniscule fraction of actual retired persons.  For the great majority, retirement IS shuffling around the house, spending hours on the golf course, or parking the RV in a different WalMart parking lot every night.

Even of the people here, only a small fraction are actually retired.  The rest are chasing a dream, and I think that when they do attain it, they're going to be disappointed.

While I agree that many people do have a traditional retirement, this forum is attached to the MMM blog and thus I would think that the OP might have considered the MMM version of retirement before making the statement he/she did.  It's kind of like going to the mall, walking into a shoe store, and complaining that there aren't any engagement rings.

nktokyo

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2013, 07:50:52 PM »
Try reading the blog before you think that "retirement" means shuffling around the house.

Sorry, but this blog, or even all early retirement blogs combined, represents only a miniscule fraction of actual retired persons.  For the great majority, retirement IS shuffling around the house, spending hours on the golf course, or parking the RV in a different WalMart parking lot every night.

Even of the people here, only a small fraction are actually retired.  The rest are chasing a dream, and I think that when they do attain it, they're going to be disappointed.

Hell no, not having a boss and a shitty corporate job is awesome. Everybody should try it once.

If you don't like it then go back to work, start a NPO or learn the trumpet. Who cares? Once you're financially free you can walk backwards across China if that's what takes your fancy.

Nords

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3426
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Oahu
    • Military Retirement & Financial Independence blog
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2013, 08:54:07 PM »
It's interesting, I suppose, to know we could bail out but honestly I have no interest in that.  I believe in dedication and hard work.  I believe in this company and the potential it has to do good.  I like motivating others regarding their jobs and assisting them in finding fulfillment in their careers.  I feel tired at the end of the day and sometimes frustrated, but that's life.  I can't imagine giving up and shuffling around the house another 50 years.  There is such lost potential for achievement and for contributing my limited energy during my active years.  I'll retire when I'm out of energy!  Retiring early seems like a cop-out to me.  I've know a few people who had meltdowns and retired early but most of them ended up back at work in under five years.
I'm in favor of those things too, but I enjoy them much more as a financially-independent retiree than as a valued employee. 

You seem to feel that your achievement potential is maximized at that particular occupation.  I'm pretty sure that doctors, lawyers, and university professors feel the same about their occupations.  However another view is that you might be wasting your potential by not exploring other areas of your life where you could have even greater achievements.  It seems kinda limiting to identify your life and your liberty time in the frame of the company and its potential.

As for "giving up" and "shuffling around the house", I understand.  Right now your work is so fulfilling and enjoyable that you can't imagine any other lifestyle, and you haven't even tried.  If the company will support you with fulfilling and enjoyable work for the rest of your life then you'll never have to worry about mustering the imagination & creativity to design another lifestyle.

I can't imagine how we will spend money in the future.
Same here.  However I'd suggest that you stay financially independent so that you can make future decisions based on what's best for you and your family, not on what's best for the company.  If a health crisis or a family emergency comes up then you want to have the financial flexibility (and the free time) to handle it without trying to earn a paycheck as well.

Am I missing something?
If you're confident that you're living the best life you can as it is right now, then you're not missing a thing.

Joet

  • Guest
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2013, 09:09:16 PM »
Nords I love you so much /swoon

Jamesqf

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4038
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2013, 12:02:10 AM »
Hell no, not having a boss and a shitty corporate job is awesome. Everybody should try it once.

Not all jobs are shitty corporate jobs, you know.  Indeed, not even all corporate jobs are shitty.  My last one, for very large household name tech company, was in fact pretty darned amazing, to the point that I would find myself wanting to sing as I biked into work in the mornings.

Working for myself has its good points, too.

MakingSenseofCents

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 263
  • Age: 34
  • Location: RVer
    • Making Sense of Cents
Re: Why Retire?
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2013, 02:18:37 AM »
For us, we just see a different vision. We don't enjoy our jobs and want the possibility to do things that we love. I'd also like to take up new hobbies, and have the option to earn money or not.