Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?

[arebelspy]

What a stellar post, Rosy. Thank you.

[dragoncar]

My job is extremely interesting and I interact with some of the most powerful people in the world.

The most powerful people in the world?!? Golly, wow, tell us more.

Can't.  I can say that I really enjoy my job and there's so much flexibility.  I also get to travel to some pretty cool places. 

If I were to quit my job I would simply have to entertain myself at home because my husband needs to stay in our current city for his job.  I already feel like I have plenty of time at home.  I have every other Friday off and five weeks of vacation a year. 

My plan is to take the earliest retirement under my pension which is in my early 50s.  I will get 60 percent of my last year's salary for life.

Entertain yourself?  Aw hell no!

Agree with rosy, sounds like you are happy.  Do what you want!  But do you really think most people are so lucky to be in your position?  I'm not sure how your highly privileged comments here are germane to the question of why more people don't retire early since people like you are probably 0.5% of the population.  If I were, say, Donald trump I probably wouldn't retire either since I could basically do whatever I want in business and surround myself with adoring yes-men.

[Think]

My job is extremely interesting and I interact with some of the most powerful people in the world.

The most powerful people in the world?!? Golly, wow, tell us more.

Can't.  I can say that I really enjoy my job and there's so much flexibility.  I also get to travel to some pretty cool places. 

If I were to quit my job I would simply have to entertain myself at home because my husband needs to stay in our current city for his job.  I already feel like I have plenty of time at home.  I have every other Friday off and five weeks of vacation a year. 

My plan is to take the earliest retirement under my pension which is in my early 50s.  I will get 60 percent of my last year's salary for life.

Entertain yourself?  Aw hell no!

Agree with rosy, sounds like you are happy.  Do what you want!  But do you really think most people are so lucky to be in your position?  I'm not sure how your highly privileged comments here are germane to the question of why more people don't retire early since people like you are probably 0.5% of the population.  If I were, say, Donald trump I probably wouldn't retire either since I could basically do whatever I want in business and surround myself with adoring yes-men.

I think my comment is germane.   I'm an example of someone who enjoys her current life and doesn't want to fire at this point.  I've learned a lot from this website.  For example, the important of maxing out tax advantaged accounts, the true cost of car ownership and making your money work for you, etc. 

[marty998]

I agree, great post Rosy.

I make around 175k and should receive a good 15k bump next year.  I'm only 32.

I make 175k and it will only increase over time.  It's not a lot where I live

We attend world class art exhibits, movies and spend time with friends.  .

I interact with some of the most powerful people in the world. 

If you ever run into someone named Westchester Frugal, say hi for me.

I don't know what that means.  I also don't live in NY. 

Westchester Frugal was a lovely lady inhabiting the 0.1% stratum who frequented these boards several years back. Her concept of frugality was several orders of magnitude above the real world.

How can $175k be "not a lot where you live"? Ask the server who brings you your next glass of wine when you're at an event how much she makes, and how she manages to live on her salary in your area.

[deborah]

My job is extremely interesting and I interact with some of the most powerful people in the world.

The most powerful people in the world?!? Golly, wow, tell us more.

Can't.  I can say that I really enjoy my job and there's so much flexibility.  I also get to travel to some pretty cool places. 

If I were to quit my job I would simply have to entertain myself at home because my husband needs to stay in our current city for his job.  I already feel like I have plenty of time at home.  I have every other Friday off and five weeks of vacation a year. 

My plan is to take the earliest retirement under my pension which is in my early 50s.  I will get 60 percent of my last year's salary for life. 

I hope that you never have to retire. You sound like a relative of mine who rubs shoulders with the rich and famous all the time because he is a personal chef at one of these really really expensive places that only the very rich can go to. As a result, he feels important, and gets all these opportunities. When he retires, he will lose everything that is of value to him.

[Think]

My job is extremely interesting and I interact with some of the most powerful people in the world.

The most powerful people in the world?!? Golly, wow, tell us more.

Can't.  I can say that I really enjoy my job and there's so much flexibility.  I also get to travel to some pretty cool places. 

If I were to quit my job I would simply have to entertain myself at home because my husband needs to stay in our current city for his job.  I already feel like I have plenty of time at home.  I have every other Friday off and five weeks of vacation a year. 

My plan is to take the earliest retirement under my pension which is in my early 50s.  I will get 60 percent of my last year's salary for life. 

I hope that you never have to retire. You sound like a relative of mine who rubs shoulders with the rich and famous all the time because he is a personal chef at one of these really really expensive places that only the very rich can go to. As a result, he feels important, and gets all these opportunities. When he retires, he will lose everything that is of value to him.

I think you're misinterpreting what I am saying.  I simply really enjoy my job and the people I work with.  I get to help shape policy in the US.  I'm not a chef nor do I think I'm important because of those I work with. 

While I do get a lot out of my job I also enjoy spending time with my husband, traveling, cooking, my dog....I could go on.  I simply don't plan on retiring (yet) because I like my job.  I also like exercising and don't plan on quitting that. 

[Think]

I agree, great post Rosy.

I make around 175k and should receive a good 15k bump next year.  I'm only 32.

I make 175k and it will only increase over time.  It's not a lot where I live

We attend world class art exhibits, movies and spend time with friends.  .

I interact with some of the most powerful people in the world. 

If you ever run into someone named Westchester Frugal, say hi for me.

I don't know what that means.  I also don't live in NY. 

Westchester Frugal was a lovely lady inhabiting the 0.1% stratum who frequented these boards several years back. Her concept of frugality was several orders of magnitude above the real world.

How can $175k be "not a lot where you live"? Ask the server who brings you your next glass of wine when you're at an event how much she makes, and how she manages to live on her salary in your area.

I do get that it's a lot.  Especially compared to other parts of the country.  That being said, a starter home is close to a million dollars.  We make around 400k hhi and have one bathroom.  We have a very high tax rate due to wage income.  Childcare (daycare) would run us over 2k per month per child. 

If you haven't lived in an expensive city then you don't get it.  I grew up in a lcol city and the difference is staggering. The lifestyle my dad provided on less than 100k would take around 500k here. 

[arebelspy]

If you haven't lived in an expensive city then you don't get it.  I grew up in a lcol city and the difference is staggering. The lifestyle my dad provided on less than 100k would take around 500k here.

I have a hard time believing everything costs over 500% more.  Housing, maybe.

But dinner at a fancy restaurant?  Gasoline?  Groceries?

No. There's no way an entire lifestyle would be over 5X more.

That aside, you seem to have missed dragoncar's point.

To quote:

Agree with rosy, sounds like you are happy.  Do what you want!  But do you really think most people are so lucky to be in your position? 

You are one of the very small privileged few.

So in a topic asking why more people don't early retire, and then giving an anecdote about how wonderful your job is, you are assuming this is the case for everyone, and showing how you don't understand that it is not.

If you understand that your situation IS rare, then the original question is valid: why don't more people ER? 

Obviously we know why someone like you wouldn't ER. That's terrific..  You're quite privileged as part of the 0.1%.

But it's not the case for most people, which is what the thread was talking about.

[flyingaway]

I think everyone's choice should be respected, retiring early or not is just a life style a person wants to choose.

I work at a university where people finish their degrees and get their jobs in their 30s and get their tenures at 40s. Many people consider that they work for themselves, not for the employers. When you have 4 month vacation time (3 month unpaid) each year and flexible work schedule in other months, and can say no to your boss at any time, there is really not much incentive to retire early.

Maybe choosing a job is more important than FIRE, or, in a different interpretation, I would consider MMM as retired from his old job and got a new job (self-employed) that he likes.

[Think]

I think everyone's choice should be respected, retiring early or not is just a life style a person wants to choose.

I work at a university where people finish their degrees and get their jobs in their 30s and get their tenures at 40s. Many people consider that they work for themselves, not for the employers. When you have 4 month vacation time (3 month unpaid) each year and flexible work schedule in other months, and can say no to your boss at any time, there is really not much incentive to retire early.

Maybe choosing a job is more important than FIRE, or, in a different interpretation, I would consider MMM as retired from his old job and got a new job (self-employed) that he likes.

I completely agree with this.  I don't view him as being retired. 

[ender]

I do get that it's a lot.  Especially compared to other parts of the country.  That being said, a starter home is close to a million dollars.  We make around 400k hhi and have one bathroom.  We have a very high tax rate due to wage income.  Childcare (daycare) would run us over 2k per month per child. 

If you haven't lived in an expensive city then you don't get it.  I grew up in a lcol city and the difference is staggering. The lifestyle my dad provided on less than 100k would take around 500k here.

If you make $400k/year your takehome is still almost $20k/month, assuming you are in California. This means you can trivially save $100k/year for a home downpayment - in the course of a few years, you can easily afford a $1MM house or even a $2MM home.

It's sad to me a person self declared as "shaping policy in the USA" seems to be unaware of how disproportionately high the income they make actually is. Even in the bay area, one of the highest absolute income earning places, you are nearly in the top 5% of income earners (threshold is just over $400k).

At least you are not describing yourself as "middle class" though, so I am thankful for that.

[Think]

I do get that it's a lot.  Especially compared to other parts of the country.  That being said, a starter home is close to a million dollars.  We make around 400k hhi and have one bathroom.  We have a very high tax rate due to wage income.  Childcare (daycare) would run us over 2k per month per child. 

If you haven't lived in an expensive city then you don't get it.  I grew up in a lcol city and the difference is staggering. The lifestyle my dad provided on less than 100k would take around 500k here.

If you make $400k/year your takehome is still almost $20k/month, assuming you are in California. This means you can trivially save $100k/year for a home downpayment - in the course of a few years, you can easily afford a $1MM house or even a $2MM home.

It's sad to me a person self declared as "shaping policy in the USA" seems to be unaware of how disproportionately high the income they make actually is. Even in the bay area, one of the highest absolute income earning places, you are nearly in the top 5% of income earners (threshold is just over $400k).

At least you are not describing yourself as "middle class" though, so I am thankful for that.

Well we earn approx 125k of it in the form of a bonus.  Approx 50k of that is deferred comp.  we bring home around 12k biweekly after retirement, health insurance etc.  we try to save one person's salary. So around 6k a month.  We only have one car and it's paid for.  We are paying our mortgage as a 15 year which makes things a bit tight.

I wouldn't say we are middle class but we do live a middle class lifestyle.  I grew up middle class.  Because we live in a hcol city we only have one car, one bathroom, etc.  our advantage is that we are able to save a lot and will have a lot of money for retirement.  We will also have our home paid off in our 40s.  If we were truly middle class we would live a similar lifestyle but would probably have to commute an hour each way every day OR live in a one bedroom condo to avoid such a commute. 

I suppose we could afford closer to a 2 million dollar home but it still wouldn't be that amazing of a house and most of our inclme would have to go to paying the mortgage and expenses.

[tobitonic]

I do get that it's a lot.  Especially compared to other parts of the country.  That being said, a starter home is close to a million dollars.  We make around 400k hhi and have one bathroom.  We have a very high tax rate due to wage income.  Childcare (daycare) would run us over 2k per month per child. 

If you haven't lived in an expensive city then you don't get it.  I grew up in a lcol city and the difference is staggering. The lifestyle my dad provided on less than 100k would take around 500k here.

If you make $400k/year your takehome is still almost $20k/month, assuming you are in California. This means you can trivially save $100k/year for a home downpayment - in the course of a few years, you can easily afford a $1MM house or even a $2MM home.

It's sad to me a person self declared as "shaping policy in the USA" seems to be unaware of how disproportionately high the income they make actually is. Even in the bay area, one of the highest absolute income earning places, you are nearly in the top 5% of income earners (threshold is just over $400k).

At least you are not describing yourself as "middle class" though, so I am thankful for that.

Well we earn approx 125k of it in the form of a bonus.  Approx 50k of that is deferred comp.  we bring home around 12k biweekly after retirement, health insurance etc.  we try to save one person's salary. So around 6k a month.  We only have one car and it's paid for.  We are paying our mortgage as a 15 year which makes things a bit tight.

I wouldn't say we are middle class but we do live a middle class lifestyle.  I grew up middle class.  Because we live in a hcol city we only have one car, one bathroom, etc.  our advantage is that we are able to save a lot and will have a lot of money for retirement.  We will also have our home paid off in our 40s.  If we were truly middle class we would live a similar lifestyle but would probably have to commute an hour each way every day OR live in a one bedroom condo to avoid such a commute. 

I suppose we could afford closer to a 2 million dollar home but it still wouldn't be that amazing of a house and most of our inclme would have to go to paying the mortgage and expenses.

It's clear that you're living beneath your means, which is to be applauded. Many folks in your position would be spending every dollar because they'd be comparing themselves only to people who made more than they did. I think what others are getting at, though, is that it's important to be aware of how astonishingly high your income is, even with living in urban California.

This calculator is from '12, so the numbers have likely shifted up a bit. But even in the most expensive part of California (San Francisco), 400k places you in the top 4%. The 50th percentile is at 78k. That's where the middle class is actually living, financially speaking. Half of the households in the most expensive city in the state are living on $322,000 fewer dollars a year than you and your husband. You make far, far, far more than most people who live *exactly* where you're living, high costs of living and all.

And if you live anywhere besides San Francisco, then the gap between what you're making and what the average family is making is that much greater.

[MrsPete]

A great number of people are just plain CONFUSED about retirement planning. 

I was just talking about pension details on a teacher board -- keep in mind that 100% of these people have college degrees -- and most of them are confused about simple details; for example, the idea that if you take the Social Security Leveling option, you're accepting a lower pension for the rest of your life.  They seem to think that if you sign up for that option, the state'll give you your Social Security check early ... out of the goodness of their hearts.  Evidence that this is true:  Friends who've chosen this option don't see a change in their income after they "age into" Social Security.  Duh. 

[aprilchem]

I'm another one who loves my job - I'm a tenured college professor and teach 28 weeks out of the year (two 14-week semesters).  The rest of the time I'm relatively free to do as I please.  My job has enabled me to travel the world, do amazing research that contributes to my disciplines' knowledge, and hang out with college students all day. What's not to like?  Even when we can FIRE I don't think I will - I get enough free/travel time without it.

[Retire-Canada]

Maybe choosing a job is more important than FIRE, or, in a different interpretation, I would consider MMM as retired from his old job and got a new job (self-employed) that he likes.

What MMM has said is that if you are FI you should do what you do as if cost/money wasn't a factor. If the stuff you are getting paid for is what you would do regardless even if it was not generating money than it makes perfect sense to keep doing it.

If you won $30M in the lottery and would still turn up at your job everyday because what you do is so awesome then I certainly wouldn't suggest you should do anything different.

That seems to be where MMM is at. He has more money than he can ever spend and in fact has said one of his "jobs" in the future is figuring out how to get rid of the fortune he's got that's snowballing.

[Cassie]

I finished my 3rd grad degree at 40 so after putting in all that effort no I didn't want to retire a few years later.  I never made a ton of $ but the job sure made my heart sing until I was 58 and then I semi-retired.  The path will be different for everyone. 

[2lazy2retire]

I'm trying to hazard a guess at how much Think earns

[arebelspy]

I'm trying to hazard a guess at how much Think earnsk

She said 400k household income.

[coppertop]

At one time, car loans were for three years and not five.  Credit institutions have made it much easier for people to get in over their heads by making credit simple to get.  When I was a child, people who were in debt were looked down on by most of society.  Now, it is expected that you are in debt.  It is unusual NOT to be in debt.  And if someone had a bankruptcy ... it was shocking.  This was not the 1920s, either ... it was the 60s and 70s.  For me, it seemed to change in the 80s, with the dawn of the yuppie.  It was culture shock for me, because I had left work to raise children and all of a sudden, I realized that people were actually buying such things as designer jeans, Polo and Croc shirts, and BMWs.  Gone were the 70s, when you were cool to be wearing raggedy jeans with embroidery all over them.  It seemed to happen pretty quickly, too.  One day, we were all hippies; and the next day, we were "young urban professionals." 

[2lazy2retire]

I'm trying to hazard a guess at how much Think earnsk

She said 400k household income.

They must be well into their 50's then on that kind of money?

[Think]

I'm trying to hazard a guess at how much Think earnsk

She said 400k household income.

They must be well into their 50's then on that kind of money?

No.  I'm 32.  My husband is 36. 

[flyingaway]

I'm trying to hazard a guess at how much Think earnsk

She said 400k household income.

They must be well into their 50's then on that kind of money?

Household income $400K may be in top 4% in San Francisco for all people. It should only be in upper middle class, I think, for couples with both college degrees and work at tech companies.

[Dee18]

+1 Aprilchem.  28 weeks a year teaching, a semester off every 7 years in addition to every summer, and a month at winter holidays.  Add on free admission to all the music, dance and theatre performances hosted on campus....and sports events.  Oh, and the gym and swimming pool.  And the fun of teaching 8 hours a week in the classroom, meeting with young people outside of class, and getting to read and write what I want.  Hmmm...it does sound like a lot of people's dream retirement!

[Think]

I'm trying to hazard a guess at how much Think earnsk

She said 400k household income.

They must be well into their 50's then on that kind of money?

Household income $400K may be in top 4% in San Francisco for all people. It should only be in upper middle class, I think, for couples with both college degrees and work at tech companies.

We live in DC.  Not SF. 

[flyingaway]

I have no doubt that MMM's message is adorable. But some fans carry it away too much. Let me give you a hypothetic example to illustrate my points.

A person worked at a county library made about $30,000 a year and decided he wanted to FIRE. So he cut his expenses to the bone, say, $10,000 a year, by living in a very deprived life. He finally FIRED and is bragging it on this forum.

But according to MMM, you should do some volunteering things after FIRE, otherwise you are not living a noble life. So he decided that he will be volunteering at the library, doing the same work that he was paid to do before, for free. Only this time he feels happy.   

[flyingaway]

+1 Aprilchem.  28 weeks a year teaching, a semester off every 7 years in addition to every summer, and a month at winter holidays.  Add on free admission to all the music, dance and theatre performances hosted on campus....and sports events.  Oh, and the gym and swimming pool.  And the fun of teaching 8 hours a week in the classroom, meeting with young people outside of class, and getting to read and write what I want.  Hmmm...it does sound like a lot of people's dream retirement!

I noticed some people mentioned that they want to do some teaching in retirement.

[Sweetloveginger]

I'm sure it's already been mentioned but perceived need. My dad could retire any day no, but honestly thinks he needs over $1M so he keeps working, refusing to believe the numbers that I produce.

I also think that some people honestly believe that it's morally wrong to retire early, like their financial independence will be a burden on people or something. I don't understand the logic, but I see it in my grandparents generation. Something about not being a productive member of society. I get how they feel I just don't think they realize what a greater opportunity they have to be productive if they retire.

[Schaefer Light]

I also think that some people honestly believe that it's morally wrong to retire early, like their financial independence will be a burden on people or something.

Considering the unemployment rate for younger workers, I think you could just as easily make the argument that it's morally wrong for them to keep working when there are young people who need jobs ;).

Note that I don't really believe that.  I don't think it's morally right or wrong to have a job at any age.

[Sweetloveginger]

I also think that some people honestly believe that it's morally wrong to retire early, like their financial independence will be a burden on people or something.

Considering the unemployment rate for younger workers, I think you could just as easily make the argument that it's morally wrong for them to keep working when there are young people who need jobs ;).

Note that I don't really believe that.  I don't think it's morally right or wrong to have a job at any age.

That is a good one!

Sometimes I wonder if people even know why they are still working. You ask them and they come up with paltry excuse after the other.

[flyingaway]

I also think that some people honestly believe that it's morally wrong to retire early, like their financial independence will be a burden on people or something.

Considering the unemployment rate for younger workers, I think you could just as easily make the argument that it's morally wrong for them to keep working when there are young people who need jobs ;).

Note that I don't really believe that.  I don't think it's morally right or wrong to have a job at any age.

Most people want (or need) to do something in or out of retirement. Why is it a bad thing to get paid and a good thing not to get paid? I am for a happy retirement and happy life, either early or late. So the OP's question can be similarly asked by more people :"Why Don't More People Seek Better Jobs and Make More Money?"

[Sweetloveginger]

I also think that some people honestly believe that it's morally wrong to retire early, like their financial independence will be a burden on people or something.

Considering the unemployment rate for younger workers, I think you could just as easily make the argument that it's morally wrong for them to keep working when there are young people who need jobs ;).

Note that I don't really believe that.  I don't think it's morally right or wrong to have a job at any age.

Most people want (or need) to do something in or out of retirement. Why is it a bad thing to get paid and a good thing not to get paid? I am for a happy retirement and happy life, either early or late. So the OP's question can be similarly asked by more people :"Why Don't More People Seek Better Jobs and Make More Money?"

I need a way to just hit like on some of these posts.

[2lazy2retire]

I'm trying to hazard a guess at how much Think earnsk

She said 400k household income.

They must be well into their 50's then on that kind of money?

Household income $400K may be in top 4% in San Francisco for all people. It should only be in upper middle class, I think, for couples with both college degrees and work at tech companies.

We live in DC.  Not SF.

DC, of course, where all the powerful people live, how much do you earn again?

[trashmanz]

I suppose we could afford closer to a 2 million dollar home but it still wouldn't be that amazing of a house

I suppose if all of society were like you then very few would retire early.  And yes I have relatives in D.C. I know the cost of housing, and still find this statement to be crazy talk. 

[Think]

I suppose we could afford closer to a 2 million dollar home but it still wouldn't be that amazing of a house

Is this really defensible and germane here to a discussion as to why don't more people (e.g., a large portion of society, not the top .1%) seek earlier retirement?

That sentence?  No.  But earlier on I was explaining why I don't want to retire anytime soon.  I explained why...I like my job and I make a lot of money doing the job I like.  Someone mentioned something about how we could easily afford a one or two million dollar house at some point.

[2lazy2retire]

I suppose we could afford closer to a 2 million dollar home but it still wouldn't be that amazing of a house

I suppose if all of society were like you then very few would retire early.  And yes I have relatives in D.C. I know the cost of housing, and still find this statement to be crazy talk.

Not if you earn loadz of money ( not sure Thinker has told us yet how much she earns), know powerful people and are an architect of the future of the USA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON-7v4qnHP8

[2lazy2retire]

Not if you earn loadz of money ( not sure Thinker has told us yet how much she earns), know powerful people and are an architect of the future of the USA.

$175K alone and $400K+ combined with spouse.

Wow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Kum8OUTuk&list=RDU8Kum8OUTuk#t=0

[GuitarStv]

I have no doubt that MMM's message is adorable. But some fans carry it away too much. Let me give you a hypothetic example to illustrate my points.

A person worked at a county library made about $30,000 a year and decided he wanted to FIRE. So he cut his expenses to the bone, say, $10,000 a year, by living in a very deprived life. He finally FIRED and is bragging it on this forum.

But according to MMM, you should do some volunteering things after FIRE, otherwise you are not living a noble life. So he decided that he will be volunteering at the library, doing the same work that he was paid to do before, for free. Only this time he feels happy.

So, the guy worked hard, figured out how to pare away all the unnecessary stuff from his life, and now he's happy doing what he's doing every day.  Which part of this hypothetical example is bad?

[Sweetloveginger]

Not if you earn loadz of money ( not sure Thinker has told us yet how much she earns), know powerful people and are an architect of the future of the USA.

$175K alone and $400K+ combined with spouse.

Wow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Kum8OUTuk&list=RDU8Kum8OUTuk#t=0

Where do you find these videos?...hahahahah

[Think]

I have no doubt that MMM's message is adorable. But some fans carry it away too much. Let me give you a hypothetic example to illustrate my points.

A person worked at a county library made about $30,000 a year and decided he wanted to FIRE. So he cut his expenses to the bone, say, $10,000 a year, by living in a very deprived life. He finally FIRED and is bragging it on this forum.

But according to MMM, you should do some volunteering things after FIRE, otherwise you are not living a noble life. So he decided that he will be volunteering at the library, doing the same work that he was paid to do before, for free. Only this time he feels happy.

So, the guy worked hard, figured out how to pare away all the unnecessary stuff from his life, and now he's happy doing what he's doing every day.  Which part of this hypothetical example is bad?

That he could be doing the same thing and get paid for it.

[arebelspy]

I have no doubt that MMM's message is adorable. But some fans carry it away too much. Let me give you a hypothetic example to illustrate my points.

A person worked at a county library made about $30,000 a year and decided he wanted to FIRE. So he cut his expenses to the bone, say, $10,000 a year, by living in a very deprived life. He finally FIRED and is bragging it on this forum.

But according to MMM, you should do some volunteering things after FIRE, otherwise you are not living a noble life. So he decided that he will be volunteering at the library, doing the same work that he was paid to do before, for free. Only this time he feels happy.

So, the guy worked hard, figured out how to pare away all the unnecessary stuff from his life, and now he's happy doing what he's doing every day.  Which part of this hypothetical example is bad?

That he could be doing the same thing and get paid for it.

Maybe.  In which case, he could stay at that job.  Or take a job doing that in retirement.

But maybe he doesn't need any more money, and by not taking the job he allows someone else to have it.  Maybe the volunteering gives him more flexibility, so he can take off for a month and travel, which he couldn't if he was an employee.  Maybe it's less pressure, better hours.

If it works for him as a job, great.  If he has enough money, and it works better as volunteering, great.

Either situation sounds fantastic to me!

Now let's talk about the case where the person hates their job, and is literally selling themselves for money...

[GuitarStv]

I have no doubt that MMM's message is adorable. But some fans carry it away too much. Let me give you a hypothetic example to illustrate my points.

A person worked at a county library made about $30,000 a year and decided he wanted to FIRE. So he cut his expenses to the bone, say, $10,000 a year, by living in a very deprived life. He finally FIRED and is bragging it on this forum.

But according to MMM, you should do some volunteering things after FIRE, otherwise you are not living a noble life. So he decided that he will be volunteering at the library, doing the same work that he was paid to do before, for free. Only this time he feels happy.

So, the guy worked hard, figured out how to pare away all the unnecessary stuff from his life, and now he's happy doing what he's doing every day.  Which part of this hypothetical example is bad?

That he could be doing the same thing and get paid for it.

I'm still not following.  When he wasn't financially independent and was getting paid for the job, he didn't like it.  Is the argument that it's better to be unhappy with more money than you need rather than happy living just within your means?

[2lazy2retire]

Not if you earn loadz of money ( not sure Thinker has told us yet how much she earns), know powerful people and are an architect of the future of the USA.

$175K alone and $400K+ combined with spouse.

Wow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Kum8OUTuk&list=RDU8Kum8OUTuk#t=0

Where do you find these videos?...hahahahah

Too much TV in the 80's :(

[Chris22]

Agree with rosy, sounds like you are happy.  Do what you want!  But do you really think most people are so lucky to be in your position? 

You are one of the very small privileged few.

So in a topic asking why more people don't early retire, and then giving an anecdote about how wonderful your job is, you are assuming this is the case for everyone, and showing how you don't understand that it is not.

If you understand that your situation IS rare, then the original question is valid: why don't more people ER? 

Obviously we know why someone like you wouldn't ER. That's terrific..  You're quite privileged as part of the 0.1%.

But it's not the case for most people, which is what the thread was talking about.

If the "most people" is Americans in general, I would say your characterization is correct, but if the "most people" is "people on this board" or a similar demographic, it's different.  For people who are better educated, have higher-paying professional jobs, a fair degree of autonomy at work, the ability to change jobs, promotion potential, etc etc etc, it's a much different story.  I assume that people doing manual labor or hourly wage-slave service work want to retire or find a way out, but for people with professional careers, I think it's far less a given that they're all miserable and would leave given the first hint at a chance.  If you gave me $30M tomorrow, I wouldn't work, but if you gave me $1M or $2M, I'd still work, and it would be not dissimilar to what I do right now, even if it wasn't at the same employer.  I get a lot of fulfillment at work, advancement gives me a sense of accomplishment, and I put a lot of value on getting to work with other smart talented people. 

[arebelspy]

Agree with rosy, sounds like you are happy.  Do what you want!  But do you really think most people are so lucky to be in your position? 

You are one of the very small privileged few.

So in a topic asking why more people don't early retire, and then giving an anecdote about how wonderful your job is, you are assuming this is the case for everyone, and showing how you don't understand that it is not.

If you understand that your situation IS rare, then the original question is valid: why don't more people ER? 

Obviously we know why someone like you wouldn't ER. That's terrific..  You're quite privileged as part of the 0.1%.

But it's not the case for most people, which is what the thread was talking about.

If the "most people" is Americans in general, I would say your characterization is correct

Yes, from the thread title and OP, I'd assume most people means Americans, or at least people in Western, first world countries (so Canada, UK, etc. too, perhaps).

[dragoncar]

I suppose we could afford closer to a 2 million dollar home but it still wouldn't be that amazing of a house

I suppose if all of society were like you then very few would retire early.  And yes I have relatives in D.C. I know the cost of housing, and still find this statement to be crazy talk.

I don't think we know how much think makes yet, but I agree you don't need $1 million for a starter home in DC.  I live in SF and still find these type of comments ridiculous (although it's true that SF proper and Palo Alto, etc are now ridiculous, but there are still many highly commutable options under $1 million)

[Think]

I suppose we could afford closer to a 2 million dollar home but it still wouldn't be that amazing of a house

I suppose if all of society were like you then very few would retire early.  And yes I have relatives in D.C. I know the cost of housing, and still find this statement to be crazy talk.

I don't think we know how much think makes yet, but I agree you don't need $1 million for a starter home in DC.  I live in SF and still find these type of comments ridiculous (although it's true that SF proper and Palo Alto, etc are now ridiculous, but there are still many highly commutable options under $1 million)

It's true you don't have to spend 1mm.   It is possible to find a rowhouse under 1mm, which we did, but it's either in a bad neighborhood or is extremely small/one bathroom.  The other option is to more outside of DC and deal with the commute.  We chose a smaller and older place in a walkable neighborhood.  Regardless, we spent a quarter of a million dollars and have one bathroom. 

[arebelspy]

It's true you don't have to spend 1mm.   It is possible to find a rowhouse under 1mm, which we did, but it's either in a bad neighborhood or is extremely small/one bathroom.  The other option is to more outside of DC and deal with the commute.  We chose a smaller and older place in a walkable neighborhood.  Regardless, we spent a quarter of a million dollars and have one bathroom.

Good point. Though this would make more sense in context, if we knew how much money you were making annually.

[dragoncar]

I suppose we could afford closer to a 2 million dollar home but it still wouldn't be that amazing of a house

I suppose if all of society were like you then very few would retire early.  And yes I have relatives in D.C. I know the cost of housing, and still find this statement to be crazy talk.

I don't think we know how much think makes yet, but I agree you don't need $1 million for a starter home in DC.  I live in SF and still find these type of comments ridiculous (although it's true that SF proper and Palo Alto, etc are now ridiculous, but there are still many highly commutable options under $1 million)

It's true you don't have to spend 1mm.   It is possible to find a rowhouse under 1mm, which we did, but it's either in a bad neighborhood or is extremely small/one bathroom.  The other option is to more outside of DC and deal with the commute.  We chose a smaller and older place in a walkable neighborhood.  Regardless, we spent a quarter of a million dollars and have one bathroom.

Then why you say a starter home is $1 million???

Anyways, assuming you make over $100k, a quarter million is a pretty slick deal in DC

[Think]

I suppose we could afford closer to a 2 million dollar home but it still wouldn't be that amazing of a house

I suppose if all of society were like you then very few would retire early.  And yes I have relatives in D.C. I know the cost of housing, and still find this statement to be crazy talk.

I don't think we know how much think makes yet, but I agree you don't need $1 million for a starter home in DC.  I live in SF and still find these type of comments ridiculous (although it's true that SF proper and Palo Alto, etc are now ridiculous, but there are still many highly commutable options under $1 million)

It's true you don't have to spend 1mm.   It is possible to find a rowhouse under 1mm, which we did, but it's either in a bad neighborhood or is extremely small/one bathroom.  The other option is to more outside of DC and deal with the commute.  We chose a smaller and older place in a walkable neighborhood.  Regardless, we spent a quarter of a million dollars and have one bathroom.

Then why you say a starter home is $1 million???

Anyways, assuming you make over $100k, a quarter million is a pretty slick deal in DC

That was a typo!  I meant three quarters of a million dollars.