Author Topic: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?  (Read 128809 times)

beltim

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2796
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #200 on: February 24, 2015, 10:43:40 PM »
Pensions are that high? And you can get them as early as 38? That's absolutely insane.
Not all military pensions are that high. At 20 years you get approx. 50% of your base pay which, for enlisted service members who aren't senior enlisted, it's not very high.  Officers have a much higher base pay and therefor a much higher pension. there is a 2.5% increase in pension for every year you serve after 20 years so the longer you're in, the more you get.

It's also worth noting that only about 1 out of every 6 people who ever serve in military receive a pension.

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7340
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #201 on: February 24, 2015, 10:52:02 PM »
It's also worth noting that only about 1 out of every 6 people who ever serve in military receive a pension.

That's because most don't last 20 years, though.  Aren't you guaranteed a COLA'd pension if you're honorably discharged after 20 full years of service? 

At 20 years you get approx. 50% of your base pay which

I'm a civilian civil servant with the US government, and I have what is generally considered a sweet-ass pension.  It is only 20% after 20 years, and unlike the military pension I can't collect it until age 62.  Oh, and it's not COLA's between when I retire and when I collect, so as an early retiree I expect to see decades of inflation eroding my eventual pension payments to roughly half of that value.

So to hear you toss out "50% after 20 years" as "not very high" just astounds me.  Is there a better pension system available to anyone anywhere else in the world?  Does that one also come with free healthcare for life?

Look, I understand that being the military sucks.  You can die.  The pay is mediocre.  You have to wear a uniform.  But you also get parades, and the chance to board airplanes first, and people generally treat you with respect and dignity even if you're a complete asswipe who served his time riding a desk.  And the retirement benefits are unmatched anywhere else.

beltim

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2796
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #202 on: February 24, 2015, 11:19:04 PM »
It's also worth noting that only about 1 out of every 6 people who ever serve in military receive a pension.

That's because most don't last 20 years, though.  Aren't you guaranteed a COLA'd pension if you're honorably discharged after 20 full years of service? 

Exactly right. It's a great pension if you get it, but not that many people get it. And unlike most jobs, you can't continue doing the same job forever - at a certain point, if you don't get promoted, you get discharged. If that happens at 18 years, too bad - you don't get a pension.

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7340
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #203 on: February 24, 2015, 11:21:22 PM »
An E-5 with 20 years in will get approx. $1500/month. And O-3 will get double that amount.

I'm a Ph.D scientist with the feds.  My pension will be approximately $775/month, payable starting in 2040.  I'm not sure what inflation will do between now and 2040, but I'm guessing it will be high enough that $775/month won't even cover groceries.

So you're telling me that a lowly E-5, who enlisted right out of high school with no education or skills and then sucked so bad at his job that after 20 years he couldn't rise above an E-5, he gets paid a pension double what a Ph.D scientist gets?  And he gets it at age 38 instead of 62?

If I'm understanding this correctly, the US military pension looks like an absolute golden ticket.  If you have one of those you've won at life.

deborah

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7687
  • Location: At Home
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #204 on: February 25, 2015, 05:09:08 AM »
Is there a better pension system available to anyone anywhere else in the world?  Does that one also come with free healthcare for life?
Look at politicians pensions.

Retired To Win

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1494
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Virginia
  • making the most of my time and my money
    • Retired To Win
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #205 on: February 25, 2015, 06:55:37 AM »
Well, I never really expected to retire later than my early 50s since that's when my Dad retired, but I just never did the math and realized I could retire in my early 40s. I wish I had learned about this earlier and then I would have retired in my mid 30s.


Same here.  Can't really explain why I am so motivated about it, but the focus and goal of my blog writing is to show younger people, based on my own personal experience, what can be done to become financially independent sooner rather than later.

MishMash

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 624
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #206 on: February 25, 2015, 01:20:24 PM »
Pensions are that high? And you can get them as early as 38? That's absolutely insane.

Ssshhhh!  Don't challenge the sacred cows.  These ones have guns and large chips on their shoulders.

I don't think anyone here is looking at the EXTREMELY high liklihood of death, dismemberment, medical trauma etc as the reason pensions are high.  My husband has a number of years until his 20, he's in an elite unit, and I can tell you his body and hearing are like that of a 60 year old at 35.  I'm pretty sure he won't be able to do much by the time he retires, nor do I think after 8 combat deployments so far that he should have to.   He also took a huge pay cut to join the military.  His law degree from big name Ivy League in a decent size city would put him at close to 200k, he sure as heck doesn't earn anywhere near that in the military.  And now with the skills he's learned in this environment, he could go to any pen testing firm and make double what he is now.

I mean without the pension who would really stick around to be senior leadership?  Most of the good talent would maybe do one term for experience or personal satisfaction, then jump ship.  With the millions of dollars they have spent training him (Heck HALO alone runs around 50k p/p and I don't think that includes the fuel cost) that's an investment the government would see go down the toilet and one they would have to continuously spend to keep readiness up. 

The medical insurance and the pension (mainly medical since we plan on having 1.5 mil by the time he retires) are the number one reason he will stay in to 20, if that went away he'd be gone as soon as the paperwork could drop.  It's not worth the years apart, moving, stress, risk of death or severe injury, mental trauma etc.  There is nothing like getting paid 75-80k a year to be responsible for the lives of 60 soldiers, and their entire families as well to make you realize the military really DOES need some kick butt recruiting and retention tools.   

Think of it this way, corporations offer HUGE salaries, bonuses, stocks etc to attract and retain top talent. Why is it so wrong for the government to do the same for the people responsible for your well being, freedom of speech, and ability to go to the grocery store without fearing getting blown up?


kiwigirls

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 172
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #207 on: February 25, 2015, 01:31:56 PM »
My goal is age 50 or 2 million which ever comes first.  There is a certain lifestyle I want to maintain that I can't get on 500k or 750k.  If you can that's wonderful. I hope to enjoy 20 years of healthy vibrant retirement from 50 to 70 years old. Sailing, hiking and traveling the world.  After 70 you decline.  I've watched people I've known my whole life and 70 is a major switch.  I hope to be in a full time RV status at 70 till I can't do it anymore.


^^^ I could not agree with this more.   I feel EXACTLY the same way.  I want to make sure that we have 20 years of enjoyment.  Unfortunately, I know too many people who didn't even make it to 60.

I agree.  There is a financial writer in NZ who wrote a book - 20 Good Summers.  I haven't read the book but I love the sentiment.  Focus on the good times when you fit and well enough to enjoy them.  Whilst there are lots of people who have retired super early/live quite frugally for those of us who like a big more luxury in the budget and are supporting our children - 50 is a great goal & still 15 years earlier than most. 

GW

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Success through consistency & hard work!
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #208 on: February 25, 2015, 01:53:33 PM »
Dave Ramsey.

Well not literally Dave Ramsey, but for all intents and purposes, Dave Ramsey and the industry surrounding him and people like him.

You cannot retire early if you save 15% of your income and invest with his ELPs.  15% savings rate and ELPs shilling loaded mutual funds with high expense ratios will not an early retirement make.

http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/daveramsey.html


This. Dave Ramsey does some good things but 15% will not have you retired by 50. His advice is a steping stone for most ppl.

Dave was exactly that for me. A debt reduction stepping stone. The snowball helped me get my sh*t together. But beyond that, I don't agree with his investment strategy.

As they say, "knowledge erases fear". Learn as much as you can about finance.

RetiredAt63

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9390
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #209 on: February 26, 2015, 06:43:11 PM »
But numbers behave themselves - in Biology nothing is certain, it drives Chemists and Physicists crazy when they look at what we really do.  When you do life tables (= actuarial tables) on animals, first you have to find them (often the hardest part), then you have to mark and recapture or somehow get cohort mortality data, and ideally try to figure out mortality causes for each age cohort, and then the number crunching is easy.  People - much easier, society does the hard work.  Plus the studying and exams happened anyway, just in a different field, back when courses in University went a whole year, none of this one semester at a time bit (reviewing in May something taught in September, what fun).  And faculty loved throwing weird questions at us during orals - things there was no way we would know - we had to think fast.

Oh, I know it isn't easy. I know CA's and I know people who flunked the CA exam 3 times - like baseball, three strikes and you're out.  It's all in how your mind works.  I took some basic programming for fun and it wasn't bad, very logical and structured, and others in my class were having trouble with basic structures.



There are other ways to cope.  I knew at 12 that I would not fit well into a corporate world of suits and makeups and dress shoes.  I went into Biology - totally different world.  Of course the pay is much less.  If I had known how easy actuarial science might be (I'm good at math and I loved life tables, and they are more work) then maybe I would have gone that route - good money and dress code would have had me out by 40  ;-)

Ah, but you're forgetting actuarial exams..grueling exams that require hundreds of hours of studying per exam, with low pass ratios. Not a fun way to spend years of your life.

Retired To Win

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1494
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Virginia
  • making the most of my time and my money
    • Retired To Win
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #210 on: February 27, 2015, 09:39:27 PM »
Most people just go with the conventional line of thinking. I remember hearing people bitch about never being able to retire when I started work. They would say things like "$1M, hell $2M, is just not enough to retire on these days."

Isn't it strange people complain about how they think they need soooooo much more than they actually do... then rather than working harder to hit a more hefty goal... they actually do even less to achieve it.

I can't save $2.5M, so I'll save... zero.  I thought of that too reading that GT's post. 

I'm in the military and it amazes me how many people plan to work past the 20ish years in service, either through continued military service or a second civilian career.  Even with zero savings, I'd make ~$3500/mo in pension assuming I can make the next rank and continue to 20.  If you can pay off your house while active, then it's a trivial matter to live on that...

Pensions are that high? And you can get them as early as 38? That's absolutely insane.
Not all military pensions are that high. At 20 years you get approx. 50% of your base pay which, for enlisted service members who aren't senior enlisted, it's not very high.  Officers have a much higher base pay and therefor a much higher pension. there is a 2.5% increase in pension for every year you serve after 20 years so the longer you're in, the more you get.

But I agree with the poster above who wonders why people in the military don't retire after 20. Even with a smaller enlisted pension it's very doable. But in my experience many enlisted service members are pretty low paid for the early part of their enlistments - especially for the kind of hours most people in the military work which can work out to less than a minimum wage job. And you get all the fun added benefits of getting shot at and all sorts of other fun experiences like long deployments or patrols to some far flung place where you don't get weekends, nights or holidays off to see you family for months on end, living in tents or barracks or ships for months at a time year after year.  Also, many people in the military often haven't saved a lot or have paid off a house by the time they have 20 years in, so that sets them back. And those who are married often have spouses who have followed them around on their constant moves and weren't able to have higher paying careers themselves.

But yeah, it is a sacred cow but one I fully support. But then I like big guns :-)!

I'm surprised Nords hasn't jumped into this discussion.  Probably because the actual/original thread had nothing directly to do with military pensions.  Too bad...

Metta

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 654
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #211 on: February 28, 2015, 02:48:16 PM »
Most people just go with the conventional line of thinking. I remember hearing people bitch about never being able to retire when I started work. They would say things like "$1M, hell $2M, is just not enough to retire on these days."

Isn't it strange people complain about how they think they need soooooo much more than they actually do... then rather than working harder to hit a more hefty goal... they actually do even less to achieve it.

I can't save $2.5M, so I'll save... zero.  I thought of that too reading that GT's post. 

I'm in the military and it amazes me how many people plan to work past the 20ish years in service, either through continued military service or a second civilian career.  Even with zero savings, I'd make ~$3500/mo in pension assuming I can make the next rank and continue to 20.  If you can pay off your house while active, then it's a trivial matter to live on that...

Pensions are that high? And you can get them as early as 38? That's absolutely insane.
Not all military pensions are that high. At 20 years you get approx. 50% of your base pay which, for enlisted service members who aren't senior enlisted, it's not very high.  Officers have a much higher base pay and therefor a much higher pension. there is a 2.5% increase in pension for every year you serve after 20 years so the longer you're in, the more you get.

But I agree with the poster above who wonders why people in the military don't retire after 20. Even with a smaller enlisted pension it's very doable. But in my experience many enlisted service members are pretty low paid for the early part of their enlistments - especially for the kind of hours most people in the military work which can work out to less than a minimum wage job. And you get all the fun added benefits of getting shot at and all sorts of other fun experiences like long deployments or patrols to some far flung place where you don't get weekends, nights or holidays off to see you family for months on end, living in tents or barracks or ships for months at a time year after year.  Also, many people in the military often haven't saved a lot or have paid off a house by the time they have 20 years in, so that sets them back. And those who are married often have spouses who have followed them around on their constant moves and weren't able to have higher paying careers themselves.

But yeah, it is a sacred cow but one I fully support. But then I like big guns :-)!

I'm surprised Nords hasn't jumped into this discussion.  Probably because the actual/original thread had nothing directly to do with military pensions.  Too bad...
Well not speaking for Nords here but, having read his blog for awhile now, I think he is on the side of "why the heck don't they (people in the military who can get a pension) think they can retire early?". Heck he even wrote a book about it :-)! Even enlisted pensions can be high compared to other public and private pensions as Sol pointed out - and they can be gotten at an earlier age after 20 years in with no having to wait until you're in your 50's or 60's - so why don't more military people retire? I personally believe it's for the same reason that most civilians don't, severe lifestyle creep regardless of your income level and the belief that they can't live a good life on a lower amount. That and generally lots of debt and a non-career spouse (due to constant military moves) who may have not been able to contribute financially to the savings pot over the years like many dual working civilian couples can.

I have a friend who served twenty plus years in the Navy, retired as an E-9, and then went to work at the same place I work. One day when we were talking about retirement he mentioned that he made almost as much money working as he made from his pension. I asked what he was doing with all the money, then. (It wasn't fashion, houses, or cars.) He told me that he saved it and that his savings produced quite a bit of money as well. Finally I asked, "Well, why are you still working?"

"It's Denise. All those years while I was out at sea, she had to take care of the children and our home and couldn't pursue her career. She had to live where I was stationed. Now it is her turn and she has a career that excites her and provides opportunities for her to travel. I'm waiting for her to be ready to retire. I work here because otherwise I'd be bored without her and I enjoy the work."

Finally, they were both ready to retire, but she decided to do one more year to add to their cash. Toward the end of that year he was excitedly planning their future together and what they would do. He told me about the latest plans whenever we met and I was excited for him. Then she was diagnosed with an aggressive cancer. He kept working to ensure that she had health insurance continuity, but she died later that year. It was heart-breaking to see. He finally retired a year later, but not with her.

Retired To Win

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1494
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Virginia
  • making the most of my time and my money
    • Retired To Win
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #212 on: March 02, 2015, 09:09:47 AM »
Sadly I have seen this a lot - people waiting for one spouse to retire and they never do, or when they do it's too late to have any meaningful time together. My own Dad did this (with his 2nd wife not my Mom). He retired at 55 and she was suppose to follow him shortly after. They had lots of plans but she continued to do the just OMY thing and never did retire until 15 years later (and she was already 5 years older than him!) when she was 75 and him 70. By then they both had health issues and found things like long term travel hard or even impossible and she died a few years later. Very sad...


I am sorry about your Dad's wife, Spartana.  It really is very sad.  My head just hangs down and shakes every time I think of all the people out there grinding away, even after they could have stopped, on the assumption that they've got all the time in the world.  The inescapable fact is that One More Year on the job is -- non-negotiably -- One Less Year living free.

Retire-Canada

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6757
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #213 on: March 02, 2015, 10:04:22 AM »
My GF won't retire for ~10yrs after I start my FIRE plan.  I just told her that I'll spend any free time she has doing what she wants, but that when she's working I'll be loading up the truck and heading out to fish/bike/surf/etc...

I won't put off living free because she's going to keep working.

-- Vik

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8089
  • Registered member
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #214 on: March 02, 2015, 12:35:28 PM »

I have a friend who served twenty plus years in the Navy, retired as an E-9, and then went to work at the same place I work. One day when we were talking about retirement he mentioned that he made almost as much money working as he made from his pension. I asked what he was doing with all the money, then. (It wasn't fashion, houses, or cars.) He told me that he saved it and that his savings produced quite a bit of money as well. Finally I asked, "Well, why are you still working?"

"It's Denise. All those years while I was out at sea, she had to take care of the children and our home and couldn't pursue her career. She had to live where I was stationed. Now it is her turn and she has a career that excites her and provides opportunities for her to travel. I'm waiting for her to be ready to retire. I work here because otherwise I'd be bored without her and I enjoy the work."

Finally, they were both ready to retire, but she decided to do one more year to add to their cash. Toward the end of that year he was excitedly planning their future together and what they would do. He told me about the latest plans whenever we met and I was excited for him. Then she was diagnosed with an aggressive cancer. He kept working to ensure that she had health insurance continuity, but she died later that year. It was heart-breaking to see. He finally retired a year later, but not with her.
Sadly I have seen this a lot - people waiting for one spouse to retire and they never do, or when they do it's too late to have any meaningful time together. My own Dad did this (with his 2nd wife not my Mom). He retired at 55 and she was suppose to follow him shortly after. They had lots of plans but she continues to do the just OMY thing and never did retire until 15 years later (and she was already 5 years older than him!) when she was 75 and him 70. By then they both had health issues and found things like long term travel hard or even impossible and she died a few years later. Very sad.

I think another reason military people who are eligible for pensions don't retire early is a high divorce rate and the strong likelihood that the military member has to pay out half of their pension to their former spouse for the rest of their lives. Because of the life style of constant moves the spouse can rarely have a long term professional career that pays much. So they may have spent a good deal of their married life not working, or not earning much, and if they divorce after years together the military member will have to share that pension with them for life. That seems to happen less in civilian marriages where both spouses can stay in one area for decades and both work and earn if they want. So in the event of a divorce the splitting of maritail assets are probably more equal.

Ironic since I'm guessing staying in service increases the likelihood of divorce

Retire-Canada

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6757
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #215 on: March 03, 2015, 06:59:25 AM »
I think that works out great if you don't have any long term travel and/or moving plans. I recently broke up with someone who planned to work another 20 years after trying to do just what you mentioned above.

It's not a small problem and I don't have a 100% feeling that things will work out. I plan to get out and enjoy my life and that involves tons of travelling. It's hard to know how that will all play out.

I and doing my FIRE planning solo so that no matter what happens I'll be okay.

Sorry you had to go through a breakup. I can sympathize with the hard choices that someone who takes a different path in life ends up facing.

One of my dreams is to ride my motorcycle from AK to the tip of SA and then home again. I'm going to do it no matter what, but I know this trip will put a lot of strain on the relationship. I'll get her to fly down to Belize/Costa Rica for a holiday....hopefully that will keep things on track, but you never know.

Ultimately you have to follow your dreams whatever they are. Good luck to you! :)

-- Vik
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 08:19:40 AM by Vikb »

SailorGirl

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 128
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #216 on: March 03, 2015, 09:25:12 PM »
I loved what I did and had no interest in ever retiring.  It just turned out that life had other plans for me.

zurich78

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 180
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #217 on: March 04, 2015, 08:07:43 AM »
For me, the reason I didn't seek earlier retirement was for 2 primary reasons.

1)  When I was younger, I felt more career oriented and ambitious.  I wanted to work and be independent.  Why would I not want to keep doing this?  As I've gotten older (I'm 36 now), that has changed and I don't like the fact I need my employer to live.  I have a period of time of a couple of months where I was off work.  I LOVED the flexibility.

2)  The goal is daunting.  I think this is one of the biggest things.  When you're in your early 20s, and you're staring up at a goal of having to save/accrue a six to seven figure sum, it feels daunting.  $500 won't make a dent in that goal so why not just enjoy it?  That was my mindset anyway.  But now, as I've contributed more over time, the end goal seems more attainable and it's helped me focus better.  Nothing like not realizing you had saved $100,000 in your retirement account without even realizing, it wonder what you could do if you really put your mind to it. 

Retire-Canada

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6757
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #218 on: March 04, 2015, 08:21:38 AM »
Sorry you had to go through a breakup. I can sympathize with the hard choices that someone who takes a different path in life ends up facing.

One of my dreams is to ride my motorcycle from AK to the tip of SA and then home again. I'm going to do it no matter what, but I know this trip will put a lot of strain on the relationship. I'll get her to fly down to Belize/Costa Rica for a holiday....hopefully that will keep things on track, but you never know.

Ultimately you have to follow your dreams whatever they are. Good luck to you! :)

-- Vik
Bolded above is one of my dreams too!! Of course I have to wait until the yappy little dog has gone off to the Great Fire Hydrant in the Sky to do it (pets - another thing that can hold you back from some of your FIRE dreams and another reason why some people may choose to continue working longer until the pets are gone and they are free to travel - i.e. Arebelspy).  But I did some shorter (but still longish) trips rigt after I FIRE'd in the USA on a little motorcycle so have been able to quell that yearning a bit....for now!

I've got a 8yr old cat, but my GF is going to keep working and I figure if I pay my share of the house expenses and I'm not there the least she can do is look after my cat! ;)

Maybe we need to setup some sort of MMM moto trip. 3 weeks in Baja would be fun and not too far afield for most ER-ish people.

-- Vik

Cookie78

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1858
  • Location: Canada
    • Cookie's Goals
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #219 on: March 04, 2015, 08:32:31 AM »
Sorry you had to go through a breakup. I can sympathize with the hard choices that someone who takes a different path in life ends up facing.

One of my dreams is to ride my motorcycle from AK to the tip of SA and then home again. I'm going to do it no matter what, but I know this trip will put a lot of strain on the relationship. I'll get her to fly down to Belize/Costa Rica for a holiday....hopefully that will keep things on track, but you never know.

Ultimately you have to follow your dreams whatever they are. Good luck to you! :)

-- Vik
Bolded above is one of my dreams too!! Of course I have to wait until the yappy little dog has gone off to the Great Fire Hydrant in the Sky to do it (pets - another thing that can hold you back from some of your FIRE dreams and another reason why some people may choose to continue working longer until the pets are gone and they are free to travel - i.e. Arebelspy).  But I did some shorter (but still longish) trips rigt after I FIRE'd in the USA on a little motorcycle so have been able to quell that yearning a bit....for now!

I've got a 8yr old cat, but my GF is going to keep working and I figure if I pay my share of the house expenses and I'm not there the least she can do is look after my cat! ;)

Maybe we need to setup some sort of MMM moto trip. 3 weeks in Baja would be fun and not too far afield for most ER-ish people.

-- Vik

Count me in!

Did Baja road trip for 6 days at Christmas last year and planning to go again.
Planning on doing Pan-american in 4-5 years, but not by motorbike. 

As for pets, I have a 5.5 year old dog who loves traveling. It's possible to do Pan-american with a dog, but less hassle and restrictions without. Depending on his age and health Panamerican plans may be pushed back a year or three.

plainjane

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1620
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #220 on: March 04, 2015, 09:10:42 AM »
It's just an algebra problem at this point, but a rough one because you need to know the relationship between "years to retirement" and expense increases.  [...]
The moral here? Every time you get a raise, you'd better be sure most of it goes to savings instead of lifestyle inflation or else you're just lengthening your working career.

This just soaked into my brain some more and I felt the urge to share.  Basically, for your raise, you should be following the "shockingly simple math" for it too, right?  Just looking at it as a distinct amount, not part of the overall.  So if you are now 8 years away from your desired retirement date, you would save 70% of the raise, and if you were 4 years away, it would need to be at 85%. 

Vertical Mode

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 485
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Boston, MA
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #221 on: March 04, 2015, 03:33:54 PM »

Retired To Win

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1494
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Virginia
  • making the most of my time and my money
    • Retired To Win
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #222 on: March 04, 2015, 06:11:38 PM »
This just soaked into my brain some more and I felt the urge to share.  Basically, for your raise, you should be following the "shockingly simple math" for it too, right?  Just looking at it as a distinct amount, not part of the overall.  So if you are now 8 years away from your desired retirement date, you would save 70% of the raise, and if you were 4 years away, it would need to be at 85%.

OR hold the entire raise in reserve for when/if it becomes necessary to adjust for inflation.  I don't think I would jump the gun and adjust my spending upwards before inflation actually forced that to happen.

Retired To Win

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1494
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Virginia
  • making the most of my time and my money
    • Retired To Win
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #223 on: March 08, 2015, 12:56:15 PM »

...The goal is daunting.  I think this is one of the biggest things.  When you're in your early 20s, and you're staring up at a goal of having to save/accrue a six to seven figure sum, it feels daunting.  $500 won't make a dent in that goal so why not just enjoy it?  That was my mindset anyway.  But now, as I've contributed more over time, the end goal seems more attainable and it's helped me focus better.  Nothing like not realizing you had saved $100,000 in your retirement account without even realizing, it wonder what you could do if you really put your mind to it.


The way I see it, the sooner one starts towards that goal, the less daunting it should seem.  That's because the amount you have to save each year is going to be much easier to do than it would be if one starts at a later date.

For example, if someone starts off at 25 shooting to retire at 40 with a passive income of $20,000 a year then that person needs to accumulate $500,000 over the course of 15 years.  Including annual growth of the investment, this would average $33,000 per year (and, of course the actual annual contribution from income would be a fraction of that).

But, if that same person (for example, you) waited until the age of 36 to go forth and conquer, the task would be much harder -- even with a $100,000 headstart.  To achieve that same retirement at 40, the stash would need to grow by a net $100,000 per year.  Even assuming good pay raises in the interim years since 25, that still sounds a lot more daunting to me.

Smaller chunks are always going to be easier to chew and swallow.

Of course, staying focused on that earlier retirement goal for 15 years would take a lot, too.

ender

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4306
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #224 on: March 08, 2015, 01:11:01 PM »
The way I see it, the sooner one starts towards that goal, the less daunting it should seem.  That's because the amount you have to save each year is going to be much easier to do than it would be if one starts at a later date.

...

Of course, staying focused on that earlier retirement goal for 15 years would take a lot, too.

Most people are notoriously bad at setting and pursuing goals of any sort.

Cassie

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4465
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #225 on: March 08, 2015, 02:37:19 PM »
I think more people will choose semi-retirement because it gives you freedom but also you still get to utilize your mind in pursuits that you enjoy & are good at.  For us this has been the perfect balance.  Especially if you can consult & not have a boss. It is really nice to have the choice to never work again also. I volunteer but it does not expand my mind. It feels good to do it but I could not fill a large amount of my time with it & be fulfilled.

HappyMargo

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 121
  • Location: Colorado
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #226 on: March 08, 2015, 04:19:27 PM »
So why does the majority of people settle for so much less free life?  What do you think?  And what lit the fire in your belly to retire earlier?

Because I just didn't even consider the possibility. But I'm on track now! :)

Exactly this!  I had NO CLUE that retiring early was even a thing!
My parents worked till they were 72 years old (my Dad worked right up until cancer caught him & he passed away.)  My In-Laws worked until 67.   

I had no role models for early retirement. All my familial examples just worked forever.  BUT then I found ERE, MMM & ER.  **mind blown**

I've been running the numbers obsessively & have found I have already saved up plenty of FU money.  And can be completely FI & RE in just 2 more years.  I'll be 52 which is late to this party, but I'm still pretty stoked about it!

DH plans to work another 12 years (he runs his own business which allows him plenty of free time already.)   So I'll simply switch to Per Diem & work only when I want.  That'll give my stash more time to grow & not tap into it.  Per diem also give me freedom to travel with DH while we still are really fit, healthy & relatively youngish.

TL; DR
Had no idea it was possible. Now I've seen the light & am thrilled to join this party!  Thanks all!!

Emilyngh

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 892
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #227 on: March 08, 2015, 05:52:53 PM »
So why does the majority of people settle for so much less free life?  What do you think?  And what lit the fire in your belly to retire earlier?

Because I just didn't even consider the possibility. But I'm on track now! :)

Exactly this!  I had NO CLUE that retiring early was even a thing!
My parents worked till they were 72 years old (my Dad worked right up until cancer caught him & he passed away.)  My In-Laws worked until 67.   

I had no role models for early retirement. All my familial examples just worked forever.  BUT then I found ERE, MMM & ER.  **mind blown**

I've been running the numbers obsessively & have found I have already saved up plenty of FU money.  And can be completely FI & RE in just 2 more years.  I'll be 52 which is late to this party, but I'm still pretty stoked about it!

DH plans to work another 12 years (he runs his own business which allows him plenty of free time already.)   So I'll simply switch to Per Diem & work only when I want.  That'll give my stash more time to grow & not tap into it.  Per diem also give me freedom to travel with DH while we still are really fit, healthy & relatively youngish.

TL; DR
Had no idea it was possible. Now I've seen the light & am thrilled to join this party!  Thanks all!!

I also had no idea that is was a possibility.   I had heard all of the "you need a million +" and felt like "successful" people are fulfilled through their jobs.

Plus, I have parents who were always very frugal, now have a shit-ton of money, and are *still* working.   TBF, they're only in their 50s, but they could have early retired years ago and instead are just getting richer and richer.   So, while I always had a good role model for being frugal and saving, I never had the example of stopping at "enough."

Exhale

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 885
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #228 on: March 08, 2015, 10:34:07 PM »
My reason for not yet being FIRE was an utter lack of information/financial education about:

1) How to calculate how much I'd need. I always was frugal, implemented YMOYL, etc. but, as Melanie wrote, "Before finding MMM, I would read finance articles that confused me how much I needed..."

2) How to invest. I recall getting my first job with retirement options (in 1995) and asking HR what were some of the most common strategies employees used for retirement savings/investing. I was told that HR couldn't advise me. Since I had no mentors/Internet, I made a random choice and focused on paying off my student debt, never having any debt (frugal living) and buying savings bonds. A few years later I heard about Roth IRA and 401k and so started contributing to those, but without any real info/insight/strategy.

Once MMM educated me in those two areas, I was finally able to see how I could achieve FIRE in 2021. That blew my mind! If I hadn't encountered that information, I'd still be thinking I had to work into my 60s.

shelivesthedream

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3930
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #229 on: March 09, 2015, 02:12:57 AM »
I was very into frugality and anti-materialism, starting from my mid-teens. This was for two reasons. First, so I had a choice about where I worked as I wouldn't need to earn a lot to support myself. Second, so I could buy a house and pay it off ASAP, so that nothing I 'owned' would actually belong to someone else (the bank).

These thoughts came easily to me, although I was frequently (and still sometimes am) temporarily seduced by consumer culture. However, the idea that you could save enough to never need to work again so quickly just never crossed my mind. My vision was always of part-time work until 65, then a normal retirement. I'm still struggling with which path to walk at the moment - my education and employment choices have not led to a high income at this stage in my life - but that may be because I'm still overwhelmed by the "huge" numbers (300k?!? 500k?!? Plus a house?!?) needed to retire early. I am hoping that as my income increases (which I feel more motivated to do now I know it would not be 'forever') and my stash increases through both contributions and compounding, it will start to feel more real.

odput

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 414
  • Age: 33
  • "I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #230 on: March 09, 2015, 06:36:54 AM »
So why does the majority of people settle for so much less free life?  What do you think?  And what lit the fire in your belly to retire earlier?

Because I just didn't even consider the possibility. But I'm on track now! :)

Exactly this!  I had NO CLUE that retiring early was even a thing!
My parents worked till they were 72 years old (my Dad worked right up until cancer caught him & he passed away.)  My In-Laws worked until 67.   

I had no role models for early retirement. All my familial examples just worked forever.  BUT then I found ERE, MMM & ER.  **mind blown**

I've been running the numbers obsessively & have found I have already saved up plenty of FU money.  And can be completely FI & RE in just 2 more years.  I'll be 52 which is late to this party, but I'm still pretty stoked about it!

DH plans to work another 12 years (he runs his own business which allows him plenty of free time already.)   So I'll simply switch to Per Diem & work only when I want.  That'll give my stash more time to grow & not tap into it.  Per diem also give me freedom to travel with DH while we still are really fit, healthy & relatively youngish.

TL; DR
Had no idea it was possible. Now I've seen the light & am thrilled to join this party!  Thanks all!!

I also had no idea that is was a possibility.   I had heard all of the "you need a million +" and felt like "successful" people are fulfilled through their jobs.

Plus, I have parents who were always very frugal, now have a shit-ton of money, and are *still* working.   TBF, they're only in their 50s, but they could have early retired years ago and instead are just getting richer and richer.   So, while I always had a good role model for being frugal and saving, I never had the example of stopping at "enough."

I think this is a big thing too...the concept of "enough" in the modern world that continuously tells us "more, more, more" is a novel one, and one that you need to have a firm grasp of for successful ER.

Retired To Win

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1494
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Virginia
  • making the most of my time and my money
    • Retired To Win
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #231 on: March 09, 2015, 11:38:24 AM »
... the idea that you could save enough to never need to work again so quickly just never crossed my mind. My vision was always of part-time work until 65, then a normal retirement. I'm still struggling with which path to walk at the moment...

My real head scratching is caused by that large number of people who cannot -- or will not -- put an end to their job tenure once they've reached 65 (or even 67 in the US).  They just keep on keeping on.  Those folks are the primary focus of my original post.

How can fully grown, and presumably well-experienced, persons just continue to keep their heads down and plow on not looking up and around them to see what else might be possible?

Pdnecro8617

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #232 on: March 14, 2015, 11:48:53 AM »
I think it's a combination of:

1) Identity: Many older people do not view life and work as two separate elements. I know a doctor, a good friend of mine who "retired" in 1995 with close to $4M in net worth, $3.1M in investable assets. He was 65. He continued working close to 40 hours a week (for him "part time") until he was physically unable to do so at the age of 80. I asked him why he did not go off and do whatever he wanted to at 65. He said he wanted to practice medicine and it was who he was. He had to be forced to give up work.

2) Fear: This has been brought up before on this thread, but many people in addition to fearing the loss of #1, are afraid of retirement because they have misconceptions about it and dont know how they would spend their time. I see this alot with professionals like doctors and lawyers that have worked a ton of hours over the years. They just never really developed outside interests. It's sad, but asking someone in their 60s or even 50s to suddenly change their focus is easier said than done. I look at it as a form of financial PTSD. With soldiers, when they have been in a war zone its difficult to come back to civilian life. Same thing with people who have worked non stop all those years. Its hard to drop those balls theyve been juggling without consequences.

3) Friction at home: I am a federal employee. There is a guy I work with who is 67. He was eligible to retire 10 years ago. He has one of the old sweet deal fed pensions that basically pays you 75-80% of your top 3 years of service *he is making close to $150k or maybe even more at this point for reference*. He has health care for life. I would assume he has a substantial 401k balance. Why does he keep coming into work? Turns out he hates his wife, and does not want to be home. I have a feeling some of these old timers who are still working just do it to get out of the house. This is also sad, but if you think about it at that age would you want to give half of your pension and belongings to a spouse you despise? I think many of us here would do it and cut bait. But if you have a different perspective on it (and probably enjoy some of the luxuries we arent into) maybe you wouldnt.

4) Guilt/Social pressure: We know about this one. The individual may feel guilty about giving up their job. Early retirement isnt done very often and carries negative connotations. Particularly for people raised in a different time when social mores were more rigorously enforced, this is a big deal. Its similar to why the silent generation has so few divorces compared to the boomers, Xers, or Gen Y. You just didnt do it.

5) Simplicity: Some people just do not have much gumption to do much other than follow their routine. To them, as long as they have a check, can come home and watch Pawn Stars and have a few beers with an occasional resort vacation, life is good. I dont really get this but its how theyre wired....

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7340
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #233 on: March 14, 2015, 12:14:25 PM »
3) Friction at home: I am a federal employee. There is a guy I work with who is 67. He was eligible to retire 10 years ago.

We have one of these at our (federal) office too.  He's 69, and has almost 50 years of creditable service so he's long since maxed out his pension penefits.

The primary reason that he still comes to work is that his wife and daughter don't let him eat junk food at home.  He even comes in on the weekends just to get away from them.

Joan-eh?

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 296
  • Location: Toronto
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #234 on: March 14, 2015, 12:43:06 PM »
1) Identity: Many older people do not view life and work as two separate elements. I know a doctor, a good friend of mine who "retired" in 1995 with close to $4M in net worth, $3.1M in investable assets. He was 65. He continued working close to 40 hours a week (for him "part time") until he was physically unable to do so at the age of 80. I asked him why he did not go off and do whatever he wanted to at 65. He said he wanted to practice medicine and it was who he was. He had to be forced to give up work.

.... Sometimes what you do is what you would "go off and do whatever he wanted" - at my current age/situation this is still true for me.

I see this in my father too.  He retires from one of the medical profession on Monday. He is 80 yrs old.  I've noticed this theme in the threads: medical professions, lawyers, academics/professors and people who have built up their own businesses.

common theme is ability to self direct and have a certain degree of independence in those professions/positions. And it's how they want to contribute to the world. Some people need purpose, and to "be of use" as a cornerstone of their happiness.

Not sure this helps.... But it explains a segment of the people who do not seek early retirment, but have FI.

Cassie

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4465
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #235 on: March 14, 2015, 01:15:55 PM »
Sometimes people start new careers in their later years & love them. I now teach an online course at the university that I love besides doing some consulting in my old field.  I came to my first career later in life & it took a Ph.D. to get there so after only working f.t. 19 years not easy to totally abandon it if you love it.  If I die tomorrow I am fine with the choices I have made.  I was bored the first 6 months when I was fully retired.  Also we are free to travel whenever we want since my course is online & I just tell my referral sources my travel dates.  I think that you are assuming that being totally free is what everyone really wants which is not the case.

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7854
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #236 on: March 17, 2015, 10:06:13 AM »
i would agree with Joan-eh that it is very very common of older generation to identify themselves by their careers.  where as it seems the younger generation millenials - we dont define ourselves by our work.  work is a means to an end for me and many of my friends - all engineers primarily.-  there are very few people who would continue their life the same way today if i handed them 1MM.  you can say you will and maybe .1% would but most would make changes to their career etc.

SpendyMcSpend

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 320
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #237 on: March 17, 2015, 04:30:26 PM »
People don't understand compound interest

Retired To Win

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1494
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Virginia
  • making the most of my time and my money
    • Retired To Win
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #238 on: March 18, 2015, 07:25:06 PM »
... it is very very common of older generation to identify themselves by their careers.  Whereas it seems the younger generation  --millenials -- we don't define ourselves by our work.  Work is a means to an end for me and many of my friends...


Well, my millenial friend, I'm pretty sure you would count me (at 67 now) as being in the "older generation."  And I must tell you, though I thoroughly loved many aspects of my work, and though it is true that I did partly define myself in terms of my occupation, that was not an ingrained part of me.  It was more like a nice suit of clothes I could take off at will.  Which I did at 53.

So, I think this "my career is me" syndrome is something people choose to adopt by mental default.  Easier to do that than to really find out who they are.

ender

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4306
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #239 on: March 21, 2015, 10:03:58 AM »
So, I think this "my career is me" syndrome is something people choose to adopt by mental default.  Easier to do that than to really find out who they are.

I think part of it relates to what people do in their free time.

If all one does in their free time is computer/TV/video games, it's going to be really hard to find "identity" in that. But if someone has other hobbies, music, outdoors, gardening, or more "tangible" things it's a lot easier to find some level of meaning/identity.

Cassie

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4465
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #240 on: March 21, 2015, 01:02:27 PM »
No "mental default" for me. I put  a lot of thought into how this stage of my life would be & I couldn't be happier. If I find I don't like it I can always fully retire.  I have p.t. meaningful work with no boss & much free time-what could be better?

Retired To Win

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1494
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Virginia
  • making the most of my time and my money
    • Retired To Win
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #241 on: March 22, 2015, 02:19:26 PM »
So, I think this "my career is me" syndrome is something people choose to adopt by mental default.  Easier to do that than to really find out who they are.

I think part of it relates to what people do in their free time.

If all one does in their free time is computer/TV/video games, it's going to be really hard to find "identity" in that. But if someone has other hobbies, music, outdoors, gardening, or more "tangible" things it's a lot easier to find some level of meaning/identity.

Agreed.  But I firmly believe that anyone and everyone has the option and ability to get off their asses, away from the screen and actually go DO something they find interesting and fulfilling.  And I am saying this as a person that definitely enjoys good movies and challenging pc war strategy games.

But, of course, the point is taken.  If a person can't find it in themselves to become actively engaged in something in their off hours while they have a job, nothing is going to change that if/when they retire.  It will probably make it worse.  BUT IS IS A CHOICE.

valfam

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #242 on: March 22, 2015, 02:27:15 PM »
I talk to my nieces (age 40) about retirement and one of them has $70,000 or so saved the other one $0. but they like the new cars they are driving and when I offer some advice they say thanks but do nothing about it. for me I don't want to work till I'm dead I have things I want to do while I can do them. I'm looking at 60 now but I'm adjusting that number every year come next year end of year numbers and calculations I maybe looking at 59.


HappyMargo

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 121
  • Location: Colorado
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #243 on: March 22, 2015, 07:43:46 PM »
I talk to my nieces (age 40) about retirement and one of them has $70,000 or so saved the other one $0. but they like the new cars they are driving and when I offer some advice they say thanks but do nothing about it. for me I don't want to work till I'm dead I have things I want to do while I can do them. I'm looking at 60 now but I'm adjusting that number every year come next year end of year numbers and calculations I maybe looking at 59.

Your nieces are very lucky to have someone trying to guide them or offer advice re: retirement. 
I had no one in my family to point the way for me. As I explained up-thread I never knew stopping gainful employment before 65 was even possible.  Heck, in fact my role models were working till 72 years old!

I'm so thrilled I happened upon GRS, ERE, MMM & ER.  I now have a plan, which so far I'm executing it well and by all calculations, I should FIRE at 53 y/o!!  Later than many on these forums, but I'm still so grateful I got the message. 

Your nieces may not be quite ready to hear and/ or implement your advice, but at least you're planting the seed (that may take root & grow at at later date) that their is another way. 

Retired To Win

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1494
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Virginia
  • making the most of my time and my money
    • Retired To Win
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #244 on: March 23, 2015, 03:55:03 PM »
I talk to my nieces (age 40) about retirement and one of them has $70,000 or so saved the other one $0. but they like the new cars they are driving and when I offer some advice they say thanks but do nothing about it. For me I don't want to work till I'm dead I have things I want to do while I can do them. I'm looking at 60 now but I'm adjusting that number every year come next year end of year numbers and calculations I maybe looking at 59.

THIS on the bolded text.  I would speculate that your nieces either (1) think they will live forever, (2) think they'll be just as physically capable and healthy in 30 years as they are now, or (3) don't want to think about it because it's too godawful stressful.  Whichever, you and I know that -- unless they win the lottery -- they will be chained to their jobs until they can't do them anymore.  Unless, of course, they change.

flyingaway

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 156
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #245 on: March 23, 2015, 08:25:01 PM »
If everyone is seeking early retirement, how can you expect the stock market to keep healthy returns year by year? Who will be working for the retired?

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 27198
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #246 on: March 23, 2015, 09:09:14 PM »
If everyone is seeking early retirement, how can you expect the stock market to keep healthy returns year by year? Who will be working for the retired?

The sustainability of FIRE has been discussed many times, including in an article by MMM.  Run a search, no need to rehash the hundreds (thousands?) of posts on it.  :)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8089
  • Registered member
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #247 on: March 23, 2015, 11:20:56 PM »
If everyone is seeking early retirement, how can you expect the stock market to keep healthy returns year by year? Who will be working for the retired?

The sustainability of FIRE has been discussed many times, including in an article by MMM.  Run a search, no need to rehash the hundreds (thousands?) of posts on it.  :)

To summarize:

fb132

  • Guest
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #248 on: March 24, 2015, 04:36:14 AM »
People at my work don't think about putting money aside for the future. They tell me comments like "We can die at any moment so we might as well spend everthing we have right now".

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 27198
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #249 on: March 24, 2015, 07:36:46 AM »
People at my work don't think about putting money aside for the future. They tell me comments like "We can die at any moment so we might as well spend everthing we have right now".

I wonder how that became a common thought in our culture.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."