Author Topic: Why do you still work?  (Read 28446 times)

DoubleDown

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2014, 12:24:38 PM »
I'm heavily considering allowing myself to be dragged back to my career for an additional 2 years after taking this last year off as a FIRE experiment. I have enjoyed this time off immensely so I have almost no desire to go back, and I don't need the money. But the "golden handcuffs" are calling, namely a significant pension increase if I turn my 18 years into 20 years (it would mean a significantly larger payout for life PLUS the ability to withdraw earlier at no penalty), not to mention adding a lot of extra $ to the stash in the process.

I'll have to reconcile (or rationalize) that with the whole OMY trap, and with not working just to get "more." It's going to be pretty hard though to pass up the opportunity to earn so much more in a short time at a pretty cushy job, even though I could make this FIRE experiment permanent and never go back. It's tough when there are large milestones to reach like pensions; in some cases, the difference between working, say, 19.5 years and 20 years, can be the difference between getting nothing and $50,000 annual income for the rest of your life.

DecD

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2014, 12:32:28 PM »
We are not quite there financially.  That's the biggest reason.  But there are a few others:

1.  I work with good people, I believe in the project I'm leading, and I want to see it through.  My industry is worth believing in.
2.  I'm not yet emotionally prepared for ER.  It only became a goal about 4 months ago, and I have some more soul-searching to do about how to spend my post-ER days before taking the leap.
3.  I went to school a long time to do what I do, and it would be a waste to not use it, at least some!
4.  We have two kids and want financial security for their sake.  If we could work one year at our higher salaries and fund both their educations....what a gift to start their futures out right.

We could both retire now, move to a lower col area and live a very spartan lifestyle.
We could retire in 3 years and be in good shape but no real extras.
We could retire in 6 years and be truly set for life, with plenty of frills.

Or a combo: work for a couple of years, then cut back to part time?  I work for a couple more years, husband works longer?  It's still up in the air, but as he goes up for tenure in 2 years or so, we will see what comes of that process before making any changes.  In any case, it's great to have a goal.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 12:40:34 PM by DecD »

Spartana

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2014, 01:24:05 PM »
I'm heavily considering allowing myself to be dragged back to my career for an additional 2 years after taking this last year off as a FIRE experiment. I have enjoyed this time off immensely so I have almost no desire to go back, and I don't need the money. But the "golden handcuffs" are calling, namely a significant pension increase if I turn my 18 years into 20 years (it would mean a significantly larger payout for life PLUS the ability to withdraw earlier at no penalty), not to mention adding a lot of extra $ to the stash in the process.

I'll have to reconcile (or rationalize) that with the whole OMY trap, and with not working just to get "more." It's going to be pretty hard though to pass up the opportunity to earn so much more in a short time at a pretty cushy job, even though I could make this FIRE experiment permanent and never go back. It's tough when there are large milestones to reach like pensions; in some cases, the difference between working, say, 19.5 years and 20 years, can be the difference between getting nothing and $50,000 annual income for the rest of your life.
Plus in your case you took off a year and so probably don't have the same "pull" towards FIRE as someone who has been enslaved...er...working the past year. That break probably did wonders for you mentally, emotionally and physically and so going back to work for 2 more years to gain the much added benefits won't impact you the same way as it would have if you hadn't taken a break. So for my 2 cents of advise, I'd say go back to work. You can try it and if it doesn't work out you are still free to quit without losing anything you have right at this point. 

Inevitable

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2014, 02:22:23 PM »
I'm freaking broke, that's why :-P

I don't think most actors get into acting for the money.  I think it's a passion, and I believe they thrive on the attention.  Brad Pitt wouldn't just be giving up money and a job.

Daisy

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2014, 06:44:22 PM »
I'm heavily considering allowing myself to be dragged back to my career for an additional 2 years after taking this last year off as a FIRE experiment. I have enjoyed this time off immensely so I have almost no desire to go back, and I don't need the money. But the "golden handcuffs" are calling, namely a significant pension increase if I turn my 18 years into 20 years (it would mean a significantly larger payout for life PLUS the ability to withdraw earlier at no penalty), not to mention adding a lot of extra $ to the stash in the process.

I'll have to reconcile (or rationalize) that with the whole OMY trap, and with not working just to get "more." It's going to be pretty hard though to pass up the opportunity to earn so much more in a short time at a pretty cushy job, even though I could make this FIRE experiment permanent and never go back. It's tough when there are large milestones to reach like pensions; in some cases, the difference between working, say, 19.5 years and 20 years, can be the difference between getting nothing and $50,000 annual income for the rest of your life.
Plus in your case you took off a year and so probably don't have the same "pull" towards FIRE as someone who has been enslaved...er...working the past year. That break probably did wonders for you mentally, emotionally and physically and so going back to work for 2 more years to gain the much added benefits won't impact you the same way as it would have if you hadn't taken a break. So for my 2 cents of advise, I'd say go back to work. You can try it and if it doesn't work out you are still free to quit without losing anything you have right at this point.

Yeah, a sabbatical would be nice right about now. It's been three years since my last one (which was layoff induced).

I just found out I am surviving this latest layoff. Yay - or bummer - depending on my mood on any particular day. My group is downsizing a little but my manager moved us off to other groups. Well, I am doing the same work but they just did a re-org and I will soon be doing somewhat different work. I'm going back to a group I used to work with and the people are fun so I will treat it as a "new thing" in my mind to try to recharge my batteries.

I'm just at an age where it would be hard to find another job like this and my company is downsizing so won't offer any sabbatical or leave of absence opportunity, so I will just have to suck it up for another year or two. I am actually grateful for this as I really need a little more time to get things straight with my finances. I just downsized my costs a lot this past year and could use another year or two to really beef up the accounts.

Sigh...or smile...it changes by the minute.

Spartana

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2014, 07:18:01 PM »
I'm heavily considering allowing myself to be dragged back to my career for an additional 2 years after taking this last year off as a FIRE experiment. I have enjoyed this time off immensely so I have almost no desire to go back, and I don't need the money. But the "golden handcuffs" are calling, namely a significant pension increase if I turn my 18 years into 20 years (it would mean a significantly larger payout for life PLUS the ability to withdraw earlier at no penalty), not to mention adding a lot of extra $ to the stash in the process.

I'll have to reconcile (or rationalize) that with the whole OMY trap, and with not working just to get "more." It's going to be pretty hard though to pass up the opportunity to earn so much more in a short time at a pretty cushy job, even though I could make this FIRE experiment permanent and never go back. It's tough when there are large milestones to reach like pensions; in some cases, the difference between working, say, 19.5 years and 20 years, can be the difference between getting nothing and $50,000 annual income for the rest of your life.
Plus in your case you took off a year and so probably don't have the same "pull" towards FIRE as someone who has been enslaved...er...working the past year. That break probably did wonders for you mentally, emotionally and physically and so going back to work for 2 more years to gain the much added benefits won't impact you the same way as it would have if you hadn't taken a break. So for my 2 cents of advise, I'd say go back to work. You can try it and if it doesn't work out you are still free to quit without losing anything you have right at this point.

Yeah, a sabbatical would be nice right about now. It's been three years since my last one (which was layoff induced).

I just found out I am surviving this latest layoff. Yay - or bummer - depending on my mood on any particular day. My group is downsizing a little but my manager moved us off to other groups. Well, I am doing the same work but they just did a re-org and I will soon be doing somewhat different work. I'm going back to a group I used to work with and the people are fun so I will treat it as a "new thing" in my mind to try to recharge my batteries.

I'm just at an age where it would be hard to find another job like this and my company is downsizing so won't offer any sabbatical or leave of absence opportunity, so I will just have to suck it up for another year or two. I am actually grateful for this as I really need a little more time to get things straight with my finances. I just downsized my costs a lot this past year and could use another year or two to really beef up the accounts.

Sigh...or smile...it changes by the minute.
congrats on retaining the job... or not :-)! Probably a good thing as it will give you the extra bucks to enjoy your ER more and travel when it happens. Can't go wrong with having amore  secure base to FIRE from. 

SwordGuy

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2014, 07:23:05 PM »
My wife is still working because:

1) She still enjoys her job. (Most of it most of the time).
2) Doing so enables me to retire earlier.

I'm still working because:

1) we don't have enough of a nest egg to support a median family income yet.  (I believe a median family income with zero debt will give us God's plenty of resources to have fun with.)   Actually, I know it is, because after you take out taxes and our savings, that's pretty close to what we're spending now.
2) We have a mentally handicapped adult daughter.  We want to make sure there's plenty of money left when we die so she won't be a financial burden on her brother or his kids.

So, we like big buffers, we cannot lie. :)

Daisy

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #57 on: September 30, 2014, 07:25:16 PM »
I'm heavily considering allowing myself to be dragged back to my career for an additional 2 years after taking this last year off as a FIRE experiment. I have enjoyed this time off immensely so I have almost no desire to go back, and I don't need the money. But the "golden handcuffs" are calling, namely a significant pension increase if I turn my 18 years into 20 years (it would mean a significantly larger payout for life PLUS the ability to withdraw earlier at no penalty), not to mention adding a lot of extra $ to the stash in the process.

I'll have to reconcile (or rationalize) that with the whole OMY trap, and with not working just to get "more." It's going to be pretty hard though to pass up the opportunity to earn so much more in a short time at a pretty cushy job, even though I could make this FIRE experiment permanent and never go back. It's tough when there are large milestones to reach like pensions; in some cases, the difference between working, say, 19.5 years and 20 years, can be the difference between getting nothing and $50,000 annual income for the rest of your life.
Plus in your case you took off a year and so probably don't have the same "pull" towards FIRE as someone who has been enslaved...er...working the past year. That break probably did wonders for you mentally, emotionally and physically and so going back to work for 2 more years to gain the much added benefits won't impact you the same way as it would have if you hadn't taken a break. So for my 2 cents of advise, I'd say go back to work. You can try it and if it doesn't work out you are still free to quit without losing anything you have right at this point.

Yeah, a sabbatical would be nice right about now. It's been three years since my last one (which was layoff induced).

I just found out I am surviving this latest layoff. Yay - or bummer - depending on my mood on any particular day. My group is downsizing a little but my manager moved us off to other groups. Well, I am doing the same work but they just did a re-org and I will soon be doing somewhat different work. I'm going back to a group I used to work with and the people are fun so I will treat it as a "new thing" in my mind to try to recharge my batteries.

I'm just at an age where it would be hard to find another job like this and my company is downsizing so won't offer any sabbatical or leave of absence opportunity, so I will just have to suck it up for another year or two. I am actually grateful for this as I really need a little more time to get things straight with my finances. I just downsized my costs a lot this past year and could use another year or two to really beef up the accounts.

Sigh...or smile...it changes by the minute.
congrats on retaining the job... or not :-)! Probably a good thing as it will give you the extra bucks to enjoy your ER more and travel when it happens. Can't go wrong with having amore  secure base to FIRE from.

Thanks (I think). ;-)

Yeah, it's really about as good of a cubicle job as you can get. Good people to work with. The products we work on have a benefit in society. There's just enough Dilbertish type stuff going on to have a laugh about. Flexibility in coming in and out when I please. And I get about 6 weeks of vacation a year. Any layoff severance package in the future will cover my costs for about a year. There just doesn't seem to be a reason to leave yet. Except for the commute (self-imposed by wanting to live by the beach though).

Sunflower

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2014, 09:19:18 PM »
This topic has been on my mind a lot recently. I'm no where near FI, but I'm nearing the point where I have enough to cover my living expenses for ~1 year in taxable accounts alone. In my mind, that opens a lot of doors to take more risks with what I want to do with my life.

I do have a huge amount of fear though. I'm trying to remember that I have so many fail-safe backups. I have a good support network and even though it wouldn't be ideal, multiple family members would let me live with them and probably even be able to employ me part time. Realizing that my 'worst-case' scenario would still be a completely enjoyable life is slowly helping me to figure out what my 'ideal' life looks like and how to start moving towards it.


Spartana

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2014, 10:24:44 PM »

Thanks (I think). ;-)

Yeah, it's really about as good of a cubicle job as you can get. Good people to work with. The products we work on have a benefit in society. There's just enough Dilbertish type stuff going on to have a laugh about. Flexibility in coming in and out when I please. And I get about 6 weeks of vacation a year. Any layoff severance package in the future will cover my costs for about a year. There just doesn't seem to be a reason to leave yet. Except for the commute (self-imposed by wanting to live by the beach though).
6 weeks vacation?! Wow that would be hard to give up.  The good thing is that you can have lots of time off (assuming they let you) and that goes a long way to waiting until you are in a position to cut the cord permanently. I think lack of vacation time for most Americans is probably one of the biggest reasons they want to leave their jobs. If we had longer breaks like they do in other parts of the world then maybe more people would want to stay working.

EvenKeeled

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #60 on: October 01, 2014, 12:05:16 AM »
New here. Boy, these topics get long--a lot to read!

I just found this site three weeks ago. I don't think I have enough yet to FIRE, but I won't know till I track my expenses for a month (or three).

Got YNAB and have it set up to start tracking spending tomorrow, first of October. I'm excited to see where I stand in relation to having my expenses covered by the 4% SWR rule!

sol

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #61 on: October 01, 2014, 12:14:33 AM »
It seems like the majority of the replies here are some variation of "because I can't quiiiiiite afford to retire yet, with the safety margin I want" which I think totally misses the point I was trying to make when I started this thread.  That point is that you already have more money than someone else who has retired, and once you reach your target number you will still not have enough for someone else who is still working just a bit longer so they can feel safe.  And in BOTH cases, the desire to keep working is purely about additional luxury spending.

Do you need to keep working so that you can pay your property taxes if they go up?  To travel more in retirement?  To fund the college education of another child?  To buy a vacation home?  To be able to give your nanny and your butler Christmas bonuses?  To buy a Ferrari?  So you can add another Gulfstream to your private air force?  Where's the line, people?  Why do you always aspire to just that one step more than you already have?

You already have more than enough for someone else, but not quite enough for you.  That sentence applies to like 60% of the people here, and some of those people have saved $200k and some of the have saved ten million. 

If we're really so hard wired to always want just a little more than we currently have, what makes you think you'll actually pull the trigger when you get to the next rung on the ladder? 
« Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 09:51:47 AM by sol »

JoanOfSnark

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #62 on: October 01, 2014, 02:23:02 AM »
well, I think it depends on how good you are at controlling "scope creep". If you set a goal, you can either reach it and celebrate and retire, or you can change the goal... I think those are kind of two different issues.

Yeah, any one of us has the option to quit now and... start a company/freelance/be homeless/whatever else might necessarily follow from the income and savings whoever it is has. It is a totally valid life choice, and plenty of people do it. But if the goal is to afford a certain income or house or whatever WITHOUT the stress of freelancing (that's my goal, at least), I think it's also totally valid. It COULD be a shifting goalpost, but I don't think it HAS to be.

TheNorwegianGuy

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #63 on: October 01, 2014, 02:45:57 AM »
Why haven't you retired yet?

Brad Pitt is a multimillionaire.  By my standards he has a bunch of reasons to quit working, like a wife and a bunch of kids and more money than he'll ever need.  Yet he's still making movies.


Lets turn this question around, why should he quit? Do you really think he does this only for the money? I know alot of people that could retire, and that doesnt really care about the money. They even say they can do what they do for free, the money is just a bonus. The important thing is to utilize the limited time we have on this planet the best possible way. If you have found something you are passionate about and love doing, there shouldnt be any reason to quit doing that, even if they pay you to do it.

vittelx

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #64 on: October 01, 2014, 03:30:41 AM »
Well i live in socialist northern Europe :-) Which means 7 weeks of paid vacation and a 36 hour work week. My commute is only like 15 min. I work in IT development and are able to finish my assignments in about half the time i am given. We can work from home or whatever we like so most weeks i come in 3-4 times and stay there for like 6-7 hours. No one ever raises any questions as long as my assignment are due on time. You could argue that my morale is a bit dodgy, but i am not gonna ask for more work and the corporate monkeys seem to be happy so meeeh...

While i don't have quite enough saved for ER i probably wouldn't go for it anyways given the circumstances.

aj_yooper

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #65 on: October 01, 2014, 04:33:53 AM »
My wife retired 10+ years ago because she got a great deal to retire from a very stressful job; she has no interest in paid working and loves her family and friend time, free time activities, travel, and volunteering.  I have been retired for 3 years, but I loved my job-mostly.  It was too good a deal to pass on.  Occasionally I wonder about going back part-time to be active in my field and to learn new things, but I have not explored this and also feel the limits on my "do what I want to do and go where I want to go" would be hard to bear.  Interestingly, we are still putting money away in another fund we have no real intention of spending so I must be seeking more financial security, or just more.  Belt and suspenders thinking, I guess.  Go figure!

Spartana

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #66 on: October 01, 2014, 09:38:19 AM »
It seems like the majority of the replies here are some variation of "because I can't quiiiiiite afford to retire yet, with the safety margin I want" which I think totally misses the point I was trying to make when I started this thread.  That point is that you already have more money that someone else who has retired, and once you reach your target number you will still not have enough for someone else who is still working just a bit longer so they can feel safe.  And in BOTH cases, the desire to keep working is purely about additional luxury spending.

Do you need to keep working so that you can pay your property taxes if they go up?  To travel more in retirement?  To fund the college education of another child?  To buy a vacation home?  To be able to give your nanny and your butler Christmas bonuses?  To buy a Ferrari?  So you can add another Gulfstream to your private air force?  Where's the line, people?  Why do you always aspire to just that one step more than you already have?

You already have more than enough for someone else, but not quite enough for you.  That sentence applies to like 60% of the people here, and some of those people have saved $200k and some of the have saved ten million. 

If we're really so hard wired to always want just a little more than we currently have, what makes you think you'll actually pull the trigger when you get to the next rung on the ladder?
I think for a lot of people it is simply fear or risk aversion more so then wanting to save more for a luxurious life.  The potential "what ifs" may seem huge if you aren't a risk taker, and it often seems smarter to wait, plan and prepare (and probably over pre-pare) "just in case". As a big risk taker myself, I never planned for FIRE, just didn't want to work anymore and yearned to be doing other things so decided to take off work for a few years (5), live off savings (even if it meant ALL my savings) so I could do stuff while I was youngish still (42), and go back to work later in life.  Found a way to make that sabbatical turn into permanent retirement so worked well for me (and I still would have been OK if that hadn't happened and I had to go back to work). But I think most people, especially those with kids and spouses, would never do something like that and may be more likely to stay at their jobs longer then they need too just for the added financial security rather then the Ferrari. I saw a custom license plate on a car the other day that said: IAMA4RE :-)!

brooklynguy

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #67 on: October 01, 2014, 09:54:48 AM »
Sol, the point you are making is a good one but I think the question you are asking is rhetorical.  You could have "retired" before your working career even started to a life of living under bridges and eating cat food and STILL been the envy of a significant subset (maybe the majority?) of the world's population who have an even worse lot in life.  But that's not enough for you, is it?  Since everything is relative, of course it becomes difficult to know where to draw the line.

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #68 on: October 01, 2014, 09:58:59 AM »
...You already have more than enough for someone else, but not quite enough for you.  That sentence applies to like 60% of the people here, and some of those people have saved $200k and some of the have saved ten million. 

If we're really so hard wired to always want just a little more than we currently have, what makes you think you'll actually pull the trigger when you get to the next rung on the ladder?

My current stache could support this guy's lifestyle: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/fetlock/

I'd be fine with that. He's inspiring really, and I'd love to give this lifestyle a shot. I currently have more than what he has, and I want substantially less than I currently have in terms of lifestyle in order to quit right now.

The problem (which is a good one to have) is I have a family. They would not be ok with that lifestyle, and I would not be ok without them. I WILL retire when our stache supports what my family needs, not wants. No creep for me. The only caveat I have is a complicated exit strategy.

sol

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #69 on: October 01, 2014, 10:25:02 AM »
You could have "retired" before your working career even started to a life of living under bridges and eating cat food and STILL been the envy of a significant subset (maybe the majority?) of the world's population who have an even worse lot in life.  But that's not enough for you, is it?

I have not claimed to be personally immune to this problem.

I just think it's somewhat hypocritical of us to condemn people who work til 62 to afford their cable television and luxury cars, when we are doing the exact same thing working until 40, or even 30, to afford our organic food and netflix.    They are equivalent consumerist bullshit, except in scale. 

If the point of this forum is to support people in their quest to reclaim their lives from corporate slavery, why do we continue to condone slaving away to support some luxuries but not others?  How do you decide what's worthy of giving up your freedom for one more year? 

Does getting from a 3.8% SWR to a 3.5% SWR really add that much more happiness to your life?  Does it add more happiness than an entire year of life spent doing anything other than work?

Spartana

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #70 on: October 01, 2014, 10:35:43 AM »
You could have "retired" before your working career even started to a life of living under bridges and eating cat food and STILL been the envy of a significant subset (maybe the majority?) of the world's population who have an even worse lot in life.  But that's not enough for you, is it?

I have not claimed to be personally immune to this problem.

I just think it's somewhat hypocritical of us to condemn people who work til 62 to afford their cable television and luxury cars, when we are doing the exact same thing working until 40, or even 30, to afford our organic food and netflix.    They are equivalent consumerist bullshit, except in scale. 

If the point of this forum is to support people in their quest to reclaim their lives from corporate slavery, why do we continue to condone slaving away to support some luxuries but not others?  How do you decide what's worthy of giving up your freedom for one more year? 

Does getting from a 3.8% SWR to a 3.5% SWR really add that much more happiness to your life?  Does it add more happiness than an entire year of life spent doing anything other than work?
Everyone has different things that are important to have in their life (and are willing to work longer to obtain) so only they can decide what is worth giving up their freedom for. I wouldn't give it up for most things - I'd cut to a bare bones spending, give up travel, and many other things if it meant I had to work longer. But I also realize that's not the case for other people who seem to want more. I just assume that if that's what makes them happy, and they aren't on here complaining too much about having to make the trade-off of working longer to get those things for jsut OMY or 10 more, then I'll support their choice.  Just as I hope they support and understand my choice to live a pretty barebones lifestyle (but full of "adventure, excitement, and really wild things!") and don't tell me how I'm denying myself so many things because I have a small FIRE income.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 01:14:12 PM by Spartana »

Scandium

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #71 on: October 01, 2014, 10:54:15 AM »
+1 Fear
Thatís what keeps me working on improving the safety margin.  Itís not so much that Iíll run out of money but that Iíll run out of money to do the things I left work in order to do.  I think most of us with OMY syndrome are actually well and above basic living expenses for life Ė but we donít want an existence that bare bones.   At least thatís what I mean when I say Iím FI but not yet RE.   Itís not keeping up with the Jones itís having a plan that needs $X to execute.

The fear takes many forms; not just about the market.  Some of it is familial; what if my parents need help down the road? Will I be safe as a single woman off exploring the world? Will I be lonely if all my friends are still working/raising their kids and canít join me on any grand adventures?  Or what if by the time they are ready for adventures Iíve already exhausted my adventuring budget?
All those fears keep me at work but the biggest fear Ė what if I die too soon? Ė keeps me striving to break free.  My walking away date is a fluctuating compromise between the fear of dying at the office and a myriad of the small unknowns. 

It doesnít help that we tend to only hear about the extremes - people so happy they walked when they did or the tragic cases of dying on the way to work. Itís rare to hear from the perspective of a person who pulled the trigger and then had remorse or was constantly under-employed part timing it to support the luxuries they found they didnít like living without.

Yes, this. I don't have $1M, or even close to it. But I do have a hefty safety margin in my spreadsheet. Safe withdrawal would be much higher than expenses, including the mortgage with 5 years left at that point, and not counting social security! Maybe I'll change my mind once we get closer, but I'm not sure.

We'd like to travel, internationally especially. If we FIRE but then can't afford to do this what's the point? Then I'd rather work and travel 2-3 weeks per year, than be retired and only stay at home.

We're picky about where we want to live. Maybe we could retired to rural Idaho. But I might prefer to continue working and live somewhere I enjoy (I'm sure idaho is nice, just not for me)

If I can work out that my SWR can fully fund these important things, and a few others then yes I'd probably go for it. But I want to be sure because going back to work seems difficult, especially if I'm 50 when I FIRE, rather than 38 as some people here.

mcneally

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #72 on: October 01, 2014, 10:57:58 AM »
You could have "retired" before your working career even started to a life of living under bridges and eating cat food and STILL been the envy of a significant subset (maybe the majority?) of the world's population who have an even worse lot in life.  But that's not enough for you, is it?

I have not claimed to be personally immune to this problem.

I just think it's somewhat hypocritical of us to condemn people who work til 62 to afford their cable television and luxury cars, when we are doing the exact same thing working until 40, or even 30, to afford our organic food and netflix.    They are equivalent consumerist bullshit, except in scale. 

If the point of this forum is to support people in their quest to reclaim their lives from corporate slavery, why do we continue to condone slaving away to support some luxuries but not others?  How do you decide what's worthy of giving up your freedom for one more year? 

Does getting from a 3.8% SWR to a 3.5% SWR really add that much more happiness to your life?  Does it add more happiness than an entire year of life spent doing anything other than work?

As long as you draw the line somewhere between 'no money' and 'all of the money' there's going to be room for debate about what is enough, as you demonstrated in your silly property tax increase to gulfstream continuum. I certainly don't condemn those who choose to work to 62 or thing anyone who works past 40 suffers a moral or cognitive disability. It's a personal preference.

FI is more about freedom than anything and I would argue that who works several years longer than having enough for a bare bones ERE budget has more lifetime freedom from the additional opportunities and safety the money affords, especially if they don't hate their job.

If you retire decades before traditional retirement age, you're still going to want to do *something* productive. Maybe will be something like writing novels nobody wants to read, but for most people it will include doing some things that bring in some amount of money. That I would think was somewhat of a moral failing if you wanted the last 50 years of your life to be 100% leisure.

I don't understand that hostility towards people who choose to keep full-time jobs for now.


brooklynguy

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #73 on: October 01, 2014, 11:02:50 AM »
I have not claimed to be personally immune to this problem.

I just think it's somewhat hypocritical of us to condemn people who work til 62 to afford their cable television and luxury cars, when we are doing the exact same thing working until 40, or even 30, to afford our organic food and netflix.    They are equivalent consumerist bullshit, except in scale. 

If the point of this forum is to support people in their quest to reclaim their lives from corporate slavery, why do we continue to condone slaving away to support some luxuries but not others?  How do you decide what's worthy of giving up your freedom for one more year? 

Does getting from a 3.8% SWR to a 3.5% SWR really add that much more happiness to your life?  Does it add more happiness than an entire year of life spent doing anything other than work?

I couldn't agree more, but I would just add that there is also hypocrisy (or maybe simply myopia) in our inability to derive happiness from that life of corporate slavery when by all odds the genetic lottery should have had us born into a life of struggle for basic human survival in the third world.  (And I am far from personally immune to that problem as well.)

mcneally

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #74 on: October 01, 2014, 11:05:05 AM »
+1 brooklynguy

sol

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #75 on: October 01, 2014, 11:16:52 AM »
FI is more about freedom than anything and I would argue that who works several years longer than having enough for a bare bones ERE budget has more lifetime freedom from the additional opportunities and safety the money affords, especially if they don't hate their job.

I suspect Brad Pitt feels that he has more freedom than you do because you can't afford to charter a jet to Cannes every year.  How do you survive the hardship of it all?

mcneally

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #76 on: October 01, 2014, 11:45:12 AM »
Brad Pitt certainly does have a level of freedom you and I will never attain, including the freedom to act in big budget movies. What's your point? You have to decide what's right for you.

MandyM

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #77 on: October 01, 2014, 11:56:22 AM »
You could have "retired" before your working career even started to a life of living under bridges and eating cat food and STILL been the envy of a significant subset (maybe the majority?) of the world's population who have an even worse lot in life.  But that's not enough for you, is it?

I have not claimed to be personally immune to this problem.

I just think it's somewhat hypocritical of us to condemn people who work til 62 to afford their cable television and luxury cars, when we are doing the exact same thing working until 40, or even 30, to afford our organic food and netflix.    They are equivalent consumerist bullshit, except in scale. 

If the point of this forum is to support people in their quest to reclaim their lives from corporate slavery, why do we continue to condone slaving away to support some luxuries but not others?  How do you decide what's worthy of giving up your freedom for one more year? 

Does getting from a 3.8% SWR to a 3.5% SWR really add that much more happiness to your life?  Does it add more happiness than an entire year of life spent doing anything other than work?

...

I don't understand that hostility towards people who choose to keep full-time jobs for now.

I don't think sol has hostility towards working folk. He is questioning the tendency of the forums to deliver face punches to cable TV subscribers, but not to people who are still working to travel internationally. Why is your luxury more acceptable than someone else's?

My answer to the overall question is that if someone is making an intentional choice about what they pay for and not just following the masses, then that is enough to justify it. Stop shelling out money mindlessly, figure your life out for yourself and maybe you will stop making the same boring complaints about your horrible boss or the terrible morning commute.

sol

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #78 on: October 01, 2014, 12:10:48 PM »
I don't think sol has hostility towards working folk.

No, none at all.  I still work.

sol

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #79 on: October 01, 2014, 12:54:21 PM »

DoubleDown

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #80 on: October 01, 2014, 01:39:35 PM »
If the point of this forum is to support people in their quest to reclaim their lives from corporate slavery, why do we continue to condone slaving away to support some luxuries but not others?  How do you decide what's worthy of giving up your freedom for one more year?

Your last sentence is the answer right there. Having the freedom to decide between working and whatever thing you're trying to fund is all the difference. Slavery implies having no freedom to choose, but instead having someone choose for you. This can be an apt description (although hyperbolic, especially for bona fide slaves) of having to work to support an ongoing lifestyle. If losing your job would mean being unable to pay for living expenses after a very short time, you could be described as being a slave to your job. You can't reasonably quit.

But taking steps towards FI is getting away from that slavery. Having the choice to decide what luxuries to fund (or not) or what SWR to follow is a game changer. It's a mindful, conscious choice rather than being forced to work, no?

I think mega-earning people are fundamentally no different than us, just on a different scale. Many celebrities or high earners work to feed their egos, or because they're influential, or in some cases because they would literally be broke after a short time with their high spending. It's the same reasons us regular folks work.

Brad Pitt might think he has more freedom because of his high earnings, but if his attachment to his corporate jet makes him unwilling to give it up, than he's no better off than me if I'm attached to $49/month cable TV and working/saving to fund it.

Daisy

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #81 on: October 02, 2014, 09:44:35 PM »

Thanks (I think). ;-)

Yeah, it's really about as good of a cubicle job as you can get. Good people to work with. The products we work on have a benefit in society. There's just enough Dilbertish type stuff going on to have a laugh about. Flexibility in coming in and out when I please. And I get about 6 weeks of vacation a year. Any layoff severance package in the future will cover my costs for about a year. There just doesn't seem to be a reason to leave yet. Except for the commute (self-imposed by wanting to live by the beach though).
6 weeks vacation?! Wow that would be hard to give up.  The good thing is that you can have lots of time off (assuming they let you) and that goes a long way to waiting until you are in a position to cut the cord permanently. I think lack of vacation time for most Americans is probably one of the biggest reasons they want to leave their jobs. If we had longer breaks like they do in other parts of the world then maybe more people would want to stay working.

Well technically it's 6 weeks of PTO which also includes sick time. But I hardly ever take a sick day. In fact, this PTO policy ended up encouraging people to go to work even when sick in order to save the PTO for vacation. In the past, we had "unlimited" sick time as salaried employees, which means you hardly ever took sick time unless you were really sick...so the move to add two more weeks to our vacation and call it PTO was a blessing for me as now I have two more weeks to take off.

My department is actually very good about allowing you to take your fully allotted vacation time. Even with that, there are a bunch of workaholics that don't use all of their time and lose it at the rollover at the end of the year. Not me! I keep pretty good track of it and take every hour allotted to me, even if it means I do staycations to use the time. If we don't use it, we lose it.

I don't have to check my email or report in to work while away. It is not expected or common. But there are some workaholics that still do. Just today this one manager was roaming the halls on his PTO day and others were making fun of him for showing up to work on his day off. Insane!

Villanelle

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #82 on: October 02, 2014, 10:27:22 PM »
I don't work because essentially, I can't due to living overseas.  I hate that, and really want to get back to work.  That is not due to the money, but because I get a sense of purpose and fulfillment from working.  I've yet to fond anything else that gives me those things in the same amounts as working.  I'm just not ready to be retired, I guess. I think that also has a lot to do with feeling work was taken away, rather than having it be my choice to give it up.

DH works in part because he has a contract and basically, he's not allowed to quit, so even if he wanted to, he couldn't.  But if that went away, he'd still work.  Work is his hobby, in many ways.  He'll come home from a 10 hour day and spend a couple hours on the computer researching Sharepoint to see if he can optimize something in his office. That's interesting for him.  I have a hard time imagining him not working, and I suspect he will work in some form or another long after FIRE.

CCCA

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #83 on: October 02, 2014, 11:07:05 PM »
You could have "retired" before your working career even started to a life of living under bridges and eating cat food and STILL been the envy of a significant subset (maybe the majority?) of the world's population who have an even worse lot in life.  But that's not enough for you, is it?

I have not claimed to be personally immune to this problem.

I just think it's somewhat hypocritical of us to condemn people who work til 62 to afford their cable television and luxury cars, when we are doing the exact same thing working until 40, or even 30, to afford our organic food and netflix.    They are equivalent consumerist bullshit, except in scale. 

If the point of this forum is to support people in their quest to reclaim their lives from corporate slavery, why do we continue to condone slaving away to support some luxuries but not others?  How do you decide what's worthy of giving up your freedom for one more year? 

Does getting from a 3.8% SWR to a 3.5% SWR really add that much more happiness to your life?  Does it add more happiness than an entire year of life spent doing anything other than work?

I think that having enough for FIRE doesn't mean that you have to retire.  People can have numerous reasons for not retiring ranging from being risk averse/conservative (and therefore needing a bit more to feel comfortable) to enjoying your work and finding some meaning in working.

I think the idea is being conscious of spending on what you want and need. But people make their own choices on how they decide their wants and needs.

Primm

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #84 on: October 03, 2014, 02:02:50 AM »

steveo

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #85 on: October 03, 2014, 02:14:39 AM »
Many of us should already be retired, yet continue to work out of fear that we'll have to
actually utilize our safety margins.

I honestly feel I'm not yet at the point where I can retire safely however I also feel I'm going to be working past the point where I need to simply because I'm concerned about the safety margin.

I don't have an answer however I feel I'm living life now as well as I can if happiness is the main point of life apart from work. I also like my job but its something I would rather do without.

davisgang90

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #86 on: October 03, 2014, 03:58:35 AM »
My reasons to keep working are a little different.  I'm also not in the right category for Sol's original comment (sorry Sol!)

I'm active duty Navy with 24 years in.  I have about 1 year left in my current assignment and could retire at 25 years.  I've opted to do one more tour (3 years) which will take me to 28.  The final tour is a dream job for me instructing at a senior war college.  I think this will be a very fulfilling tour and potentially give me the academic creds I need to teach at the college level as an adjunct professor for a part time gig after the Navy.

The longer I stay active duty, the bigger my pension grows, but I think 28 is the most I want to do (max for my rank is 30).  The timing is also good for my middle son (who has autism) to finish high school and available vocational training and for my youngest to finish middle school and be ready to start high school as we move.

We are looking at the Pacific Northwest for retirement (Whidbey Island area).


steveo

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #87 on: October 03, 2014, 07:00:26 AM »
what makes you think you'll actually pull the trigger when you get to the next rung on the ladder?

Basically because I have better ways to spend my time then go to work. It is though about feeling safe with the stash that I have built up.

Squirrel away

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #88 on: October 03, 2014, 07:34:42 AM »
One thing that bothers me is that the cost of living has increased a lot in the past ten years since I've been a homeowner. I worry that my estimates of how much we would need to live on after retirement are too low and that if prices do increase further that we would end up living in poverty. It isn't a likely scenario at this point but I think knowing what it's like to be poor and financially insecure in the past haunts me still. I think once we get to a certain net worth I will start to relax more. Well I hope so anyway!:)

HawkeyeNFO

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #89 on: October 03, 2014, 09:09:33 AM »
Why do I keep working?  Well, that's one thing about the Navy - if your job sucks, you just wait a couple of years and you get to do something completely different.  So for now, I sit in my cubicle in the world's largest office building (the one with 5 sides), and it's terrible.  But in less than a year, they're sending my family to live in Germany.  And after a 20 year stint, they basically make you a millionaire (whether you want to be or not) by giving you retirement pay.  And there are a lot of good people, with an ethical and moral code that seems to deliver more integrity in Sailors and officers than that of the general population.

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #90 on: October 03, 2014, 04:21:41 PM »
One thing that bothers me is that the cost of living has increased a lot in the past ten years since I've been a homeowner. I worry that my estimates of how much we would need to live on after retirement are too low and that if prices do increase further that we would end up living in poverty. It isn't a likely scenario at this point but I think knowing what it's like to be poor and financially insecure in the past haunts me still. I think once we get to a certain net worth I will start to relax more. Well I hope so anyway!:)
I've also felt this way but I am 100% willing to sell my house and move to a less expensive area and a less expensive home - or rent. I always feel I have the option to live lower if things don't work out as planned and higher costs outstrip my income. And I think I'd live a really good life and I don't think I'd end up in poverty (and I'm sure each person has a different definition of what poverty is to them). So if you are willing to be flexible then much of that worry goes away.

Spartana

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #91 on: October 03, 2014, 04:28:01 PM »
My reasons to keep working are a little different.  I'm also not in the right category for Sol's original comment (sorry Sol!)

I'm active duty Navy with 24 years in.  I have about 1 year left in my current assignment and could retire at 25 years.  I've opted to do one more tour (3 years) which will take me to 28.  The final tour is a dream job for me instructing at a senior war college.  I think this will be a very fulfilling tour and potentially give me the academic creds I need to teach at the college level as an adjunct professor for a part time gig after the Navy.

The longer I stay active duty, the bigger my pension grows, but I think 28 is the most I want to do (max for my rank is 30).  The timing is also good for my middle son (who has autism) to finish high school and available vocational training and for my youngest to finish middle school and be ready to start high school as we move.

We are looking at the Pacific Northwest for retirement (Whidbey Island area).
Hmmm.... this is why my ex-hubby and I divorced. Both active duty Coast Guard, spent a huge amount of time apart during the approx. 17 years we were married (20 together), made a pact before marriage that we'd get out at 20 at the latest, I did, he decided to do the "just one more year" several times, I had my own civilian career I didn't want to give up to follow him and I didn't want to continue living apart any longer, he wanted to stay in for that "one more transfer for the really cool assignment". So we went our separate ways - happily and with no bitterness or remorse. He's still in and still doing the "just one more year" thing for the next cool assignment and we've been divorced for over 10 years. That's alotta "just one more years" :-)! He must be in at over 30 year now.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 04:30:27 PM by Spartana »

davisgang90

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #92 on: October 03, 2014, 05:40:56 PM »
My reasons to keep working are a little different.  I'm also not in the right category for Sol's original comment (sorry Sol!)

I'm active duty Navy with 24 years in.  I have about 1 year left in my current assignment and could retire at 25 years.  I've opted to do one more tour (3 years) which will take me to 28.  The final tour is a dream job for me instructing at a senior war college.  I think this will be a very fulfilling tour and potentially give me the academic creds I need to teach at the college level as an adjunct professor for a part time gig after the Navy.

The longer I stay active duty, the bigger my pension grows, but I think 28 is the most I want to do (max for my rank is 30).  The timing is also good for my middle son (who has autism) to finish high school and available vocational training and for my youngest to finish middle school and be ready to start high school as we move.

We are looking at the Pacific Northwest for retirement (Whidbey Island area).
Hmmm.... this is why my ex-hubby and I divorced. Both active duty Coast Guard, spent a huge amount of time apart during the approx. 17 years we were married (20 together), made a pact before marriage that we'd get out at 20 at the latest, I did, he decided to do the "just one more year" several times, I had my own civilian career I didn't want to give up to follow him and I didn't want to continue living apart any longer, he wanted to stay in for that "one more transfer for the really cool assignment". So we went our separate ways - happily and with no bitterness or remorse. He's still in and still doing the "just one more year" thing for the next cool assignment and we've been divorced for over 10 years. That's alotta "just one more years" :-)! He must be in at over 30 year now.
CINCLANTHOUSE is onboard with the plan and excited about the tour/timing for the kids, but I certainly understand the "one more tour" danger.

darkadams00

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #93 on: October 03, 2014, 08:39:06 PM »
Ultimately, I don't have enough to punch my ticket on the infinite salary train. But rather than focus on what I can't do, I find enjoyment in what I can do.

I get to pick my projects and most of my project team members. I can set a flexible daily work schedule--come in late from a doctor's appt or just casual sex and a late breakfast with the wife, bike in early to beat the traffic and enjoy the morning views, take a long lunch to socialize, work out, or play rec league games, work from home to meet the repairman, etc. I can opt for business travel domestically, internationally, or not at all with no repercussions (plays into the project selections, of course). I can present new ideas that my manager will discuss, critique, and promote--the decision is usually based on timing and the practicality of my idea. I can eat lunch, socialize, and work with a lot of smart people doing really cool stuff.

When you're enjoying life as is, the incentive and "longing" for something different is infrequent and barely louder than a whisper. Would I feel differently if I were completely ready to FIRE? Maybe but not certainly.


Spartana

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #94 on: October 03, 2014, 11:46:42 PM »
My reasons to keep working are a little different.  I'm also not in the right category for Sol's original comment (sorry Sol!)

I'm active duty Navy with 24 years in.  I have about 1 year left in my current assignment and could retire at 25 years.  I've opted to do one more tour (3 years) which will take me to 28.  The final tour is a dream job for me instructing at a senior war college.  I think this will be a very fulfilling tour and potentially give me the academic creds I need to teach at the college level as an adjunct professor for a part time gig after the Navy.

The longer I stay active duty, the bigger my pension grows, but I think 28 is the most I want to do (max for my rank is 30).  The timing is also good for my middle son (who has autism) to finish high school and available vocational training and for my youngest to finish middle school and be ready to start high school as we move.

We are looking at the Pacific Northwest for retirement (Whidbey Island area).
Hmmm.... this is why my ex-hubby and I divorced. Both active duty Coast Guard, spent a huge amount of time apart during the approx. 17 years we were married (20 together), made a pact before marriage that we'd get out at 20 at the latest, I did, he decided to do the "just one more year" several times, I had my own civilian career I didn't want to give up to follow him and I didn't want to continue living apart any longer, he wanted to stay in for that "one more transfer for the really cool assignment". So we went our separate ways - happily and with no bitterness or remorse. He's still in and still doing the "just one more year" thing for the next cool assignment and we've been divorced for over 10 years. That's alotta "just one more years" :-)! He must be in at over 30 year now.
CINCLANTHOUSE is onboard with the plan and excited about the tour/timing for the kids, but I certainly understand the "one more tour" danger.

:-)!! That makes it sooo much easier.

Squirrel away

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #95 on: October 04, 2014, 04:04:11 AM »
One thing that bothers me is that the cost of living has increased a lot in the past ten years since I've been a homeowner. I worry that my estimates of how much we would need to live on after retirement are too low and that if prices do increase further that we would end up living in poverty. It isn't a likely scenario at this point but I think knowing what it's like to be poor and financially insecure in the past haunts me still. I think once we get to a certain net worth I will start to relax more. Well I hope so anyway!:)
I've also felt this way but I am 100% willing to sell my house and move to a less expensive area and a less expensive home - or rent. I always feel I have the option to live lower if things don't work out as planned and higher costs outstrip my income. And I think I'd live a really good life and I don't think I'd end up in poverty (and I'm sure each person has a different definition of what poverty is to them). So if you are willing to be flexible then much of that worry goes away.

Yes, exactly. There are a lot of options even if things don't go as planned.

SeŮora Savings

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #96 on: October 06, 2014, 06:36:43 PM »
Do we face-punch people who are saving 15% and want to retire at 62?  I mostly see face punches for people who have goals that are not inline with their actions and people who are going to hurt others with their money problems.

Personally, I am not retired because I want to raise kids in a way that is within the normal range (24k per year for a family).  They'll know that we spend less than most people do but they won't be freaks that live in an RV. 

My goal is pretty close to 1/5 what my friends spend.  I have most of the things they they do, but in a different form;  a shared beater instead of a pair of new cars, an apartment in the bad side of town instead of a house in the heights, home cooked Mexican food instead of home cooked French dishes.  I think it would be hard to maintain a social life spending orders of magnitude less than your friends.

secondcor521

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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #97 on: October 07, 2014, 11:06:25 PM »
I just think it's somewhat hypocritical of us to condemn people <...snip...>

Does getting from a 3.8% SWR to a 3.5% SWR really add that much more happiness to your life?

Does it add more happiness than an entire year of life spent doing anything other than work?

Personally I don't outwardly condemn them, although it is easy to fall into the trap of feeling inwardly smug or superior.  In general I am supportive of people living enlightened and thoughtful lives according to their values, and I recognize and accept that I am a financial oddball.  I choose differently than most do because my values and personality and life history are different.

I have a voracious desire for financial security for reasons that I won't get into here.  Getting to a 3.5% SWR doesn't add much happiness directly, but it improves my feeling (illusion?) of security, which reduces my stress, which increases my happiness.

Your last question I think, is the crux of the matter.  Although I'm approximately FIRE today (my withdrawal rate would be 4.12%) I've tentatively set a FIRE date of 2/5/2016.  I've tried to evaluate honestly whether the extra time at the workplace is worth it to me.  So far I have decided it is, but there are days when I think of a former co-worker who died in his mid-50s due to brain cancer, or I think of being at work instead of being more available to spend time with and help my kids, or I have interactions with annoying coworkers.  Right now my solution is to just use my vacation time more freely than I have in the past, and take work less seriously overall.  I am also considering a leave of absence, which would keep me accruing calendar time towards stock option vesting but would let me avoid work for a while.

I was going to say that I am immune to moving the goal posts, but in retrospect that hasn't been true.  I first thought I would FIRE the day I hit 4% SWR.  I past that point about July 8, 2013.  (I'm back above 4% because I've increased spending since then.).  Now I'm aiming for 3.5% SWR and a fully funded Roth pipeline, which should occur around that 2/5/2016 date.  I don't know if I'll move the goalposts again at that point.  We'll see.

pom

  • Bristles
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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #98 on: October 08, 2014, 02:04:57 AM »
I totally understand Sol's argument. Could I retire today? For sure, at 4% our stash would bring us 30k a year, enough to live well for the rest of our lives.

There are a the main reasons (excuses?) why we don't do it.

- I still enjoy my work. I changed job last year and so far so good. It pays well too which helps.
- I married 2 years ago and my wife is not on board with the very early retirement idea, she would like to pull the trigger at 50ish. She is on board on the FI side, she totally understand that freedom from having to work is pretty powerful.
- I am scared. It is irrational but I am afraid that I will be totally bored.
- Uncertainty about future cash needs as we have our first child on the way.

Gray Matter

  • Magnum Stache
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Re: Why do you still work?
« Reply #99 on: October 08, 2014, 06:04:30 AM »
I still work for a variety of reasons, not all of them good ones:
  • I have an unholy love of my house, which is not extravagant (2400 sf for a family of five), but is not Mustachian either, and it has a big mortgage, high taxes, and high maintenance and upkeep costs.
  • I am a huge procrastinator, and I fear that without the structure of work and externally-imposed deadlines, I would never get off the couch.  And even though most mornings I don't feel like going to work, once I am there, I feel engaged and productive and, quite honestly, often happier than I am on the weekends.
  • On the weekends, I tend to feel restless and bored.  I hope this is because I haven't built enough of a life outside of work to sustain me (because there's not that much energy left after work), but I don't know.
  • I worry that if something happened to our stash or one of us became disabled or a child required more resources (two of our kids are what I'd call "special needs"), we wouldn't be able to afford it and/or find decent jobs again.

So, I toil on, not particularly happy working, but worried that I'd be even more unhappy not working.  Boy, that's a rather depressing outlook, isn't it?  I'm working on it...