Why are you even interested in doing this?

[Thegoblinchief]

Freedom. Depending on when we hit the goal, this will be freedom to spend more time as a family, or with each other when the kids are independent.

But even more than that, minimalism makes me happy.

[johnintaiwan]

For me I think there are 3 main reasons:

1. I have seen people be a slave to their job and lifestyle before.

2. There are not many 45+ year old English teachers that get hired here anymore.

3. I think FI is the epitome of independence. (I am very lucky in that) I have always had the safety net of my family to rely on. Even now as an adult I know that if I ever fall on hard times I will be okay. I think that achieving FI would make me feel that I have accomplished something on my own.

[Squirrel away]

3. I think FI is the epitome of independence. (I am very lucky in that) I have always had the safety net of my family to rely on. Even now as an adult I know that if I ever fall on hard times I will be okay. I think that achieving FI would make me feel that I have accomplished something on my own.

For me it is the opposite reason as I don't have any family to fall back on so being FI would be my safety net.:)

[Rewdoalb]

Haven't noticed this in the other replies yet:

Living far below your means allows you to give radically.  Which is more satisfying than materialism / idolizing "stuff".

When I'm reading these forums / ERE posts, it's easy to get caught up in "frugality now to have the freedom to buy more stuff later".  But I don't want it to be about the stuff, ever.

[arebelspy]

Haven't noticed this in the other replies yet:

Living far below your means allows you to give radically.  Which is more satisfying than materialism / idolizing "stuff".

When I'm reading these forums / ERE posts, it's easy to get caught up in "frugality now to have the freedom to buy more stuff later".  But I don't want it to be about the stuff, ever.

I haven't seen too much of that attitude, but I haven't been looking, either.

Most people's FIRE budget is similar to their current (frugal) one, with maybe a bit more added in for healthcare or more travel.

[Rewdoalb]

Haven't noticed this in the other replies yet:

Living far below your means allows you to give radically.  Which is more satisfying than materialism / idolizing "stuff".

When I'm reading these forums / ERE posts, it's easy to get caught up in "frugality now to have the freedom to buy more stuff later".  But I don't want it to be about the stuff, ever.

I haven't seen too much of that attitude, but I haven't been looking, either.

Most people's FIRE budget is similar to their current (frugal) one, with maybe a bit more added in for healthcare or more travel.

That makes sense.  Perhaps future giving is best reflected in current habits.  That's probably true for me (living frugally but currently giving 13-15% of my gross as I "start adult life").  This puts FIRE back many years, but also allows the giving to be increasingly impactful the longer I work (especially if lifestyle inflation is avoided as the salary increases).

[Elaine]

Interesting thread, here are my (many) reasons:

1. Minimalism was my preference long before I found MMM, which means many of the tips were easy to implement.
2. I have watched older relatives have to work well into their 60s when they no longer wanted to- I did not want that to be me.
3. I have experienced the stress of being broke/poor, and I never ever want to experience it again.
4. Non-consumerism and minimalism fit in very nicely with Buddhism.
5. I am a writer. I have been published in national and international publications, but it simply doesn't pay enough for me to quit my office job. I want to live off passive income so that I can write more, and dive into my sci-fi/fantasy trilogy that I've been kicking around for years.
6. I do not like any aspect of being in an office environment. I find the work repetitive and the social atmosphere stale.

[lexie2000]

Haven't noticed this in the other replies yet:

Living far below your means allows you to give radically.  Which is more satisfying than materialism / idolizing "stuff".

When I'm reading these forums / ERE posts, it's easy to get caught up in "frugality now to have the freedom to buy more stuff later".  But I don't want it to be about the stuff, ever.

I'm not too sure about that.   Once you've gotten it, the frugality bug is pretty hard to "cure".

Depending on how much you have, giving money might be a lot easier than giving your time (volunteering). 

[GalTexas]

like Braveheart

Royal Magistrate: The prisoner wishes to say a word.
William Wallace: [shouts loud and long] Freedom!

[rocksinmyhead]

- I am an anxious person and, like serpentstooth said, I crave financial security. I just don't want to be stressed about money.
- I am already stressed about my parents' financial situation when they stop working (they are in their 50's). I don't know my boyfriend's parents' (future in-laws) situation very well but I think he is worried about them too. we each only have one sibling (and he is pretty much estranged from his) so there aren't a ton of people to help out. I want to be able to help out my parents without putting my own future retirement in jeopardy.
- I have seen ageism at work and I don't want to be a position where I HAVE TO WORK in my 60s or even 50s.
- probably the biggest reason is that we want geographic flexibility. right now we live hundreds of miles from both of our hometowns/families, in a place where the weather and culture is very different from what we prefer and are used to, just for my job. my industry is somewhat geographically limited (I mean, it exists in lot of places worldwide, but is completely nonexistent in my hometown) and if I change industries I will probably take a 50% pay cut. I want us to have the flexibility to do that, preferably before we have kids or while our kids are young (and I feel slightly anxious about kids sooner rather than later because he is older than me and I don't want him to be "super old dad" while our kids are in high school :))

[NeverWasACornflakeGirl]

I did it because people piss me off.

After picking up some debt in college, I worked hard for to pay it off.  Just about the time I got debt free, I bought my first house and felt trapped.  I knew I had to keep dragging my ass into a job where people tortured me with stupidity for 8 hours a day.  I couldn't stand the thought of putting up with them for 30 years.

I kept a mortgage principal jar in my desk drawer.   Every time some jerk pissed me off, I'd toss in some money to make myself feel better.  There was another jar next to the alarm clock.  Every time I dreaded going to work, I'd toss in some money to make myself feel better.  When I got a 3% raise while real inflation was 8%, I tossed in my whole bonus.  When they called me in from vacation to do stuff that I wasn't needed for (I was re-roofing the house, and a storm was on the way), I demanded salary on top of my vacation time.  It went in the jar.

The more they pissed me off, the faster I paid off the house...until the day I unexpectedly retired.

LOL -- love it!  Good for you!

[MKinVA]

I want to live like a child: get up and have some breakfast, go out and play with the dog, get hungry, come in and eat lunch, take nap, go out and play, get hungry, come in and eat dinner, watch my favorite tv show, go to bed.

[nawhite]

At a different point in my life, my answers would have been similar to others on here. But now my reasoning all boils down to:

I promised my wife when we got engaged that I would help her pay off her student loan debt (we had a combined $175,000 in student loan debt when we graduated).

The sooner we pay that off, the sooner I can go back to being an outdoor adventure guide and never work in an office again. Ever. Regardless of how much money they offer I will refuse to do it. RE isn't the goal at all for me anymore. FI is all the debt paid off and enough in retirement accounts that I never need to think about retirement again (but have to keep working to pay my living expenses).

Right now the plan is in 4 more years, we'll be debt free, have 150k in IRA's, another 60k in cash and home equity, and be 31 years old. I can go back to doing what I want to do with my life and be modestly young doing it.

[crumbcatcher]

In spite of being a high-school dropout with no college degree and a mental illness on top of it, I have been a high earner for about a decade. But I have so little to show for it, mainly because I just wasn't paying attention and was just sliding through life trying to make as few waves as possible (in addition to making terrible financial decisions). Working toward FI means being fully conscious and living with intention. I feel like I've been squandering a great gift, that I've been pissing away good fortune, and I don't want to do that anymore.

Being frugal gives me the satisfaction of knowing that I'm no longer being wasteful, on so many different levels.

Also, there are things I want to do with my life that I can't do while I'm working at a job for someone else.  I want to travel, to study, to write. I want to do those things before I've completely lost my passion.  I know I can do some of that now, but I want to devote myself to the experiences and work that I love.

[Jon_Snow]

My wife and I are blessed to own 5 acres on a B.C. Gulf Island - Washingtonians are familiar with the San Juan Islands, which are just across an invisible watery border from our place. People who have been to these islands know it for the paradise it is - especially from June to September.

I currently work and slave in the city, but our island property is where I feel I BELONG. It physically pains me not to be there more often. But thanks to a dozen Mustachian years of saving and investing heavily, I am at the point where I can be there more often than not.

The property, full of towering Douglas Firs, is a blank canvas. I want to build a cabin WITH MY OWN HANDS. I want to have a massive garden. I want to catch my own fish and crabs, dig for my own clams, harvest my own oysters. I have done many of these things in short spurts over the years but it always ends and I head back to the city and a much less satisfying life.

This is the life I want, all the time. That's why have been a Mustachian far longer than this site has been in existence. This site hasn't been a revelation for me. It has been a CONFIRMATION that it has been the right path all along.

[nawhite]

My wife and I are blessed to own 5 acres on a B.C. Gulf Island - Washingtonians are familiar with the San Juan Islands, which are just across an invisible watery border from our place. People who have been to these islands know it for the paradise it is - especially from June to September.

I currently work and slave in the city, but our island property is where I feel I BELONG. It physically pains me not to be there more often. But thanks to a dozen Mustachian years of saving and investing heavily, I am at the point where I can be there more often than not.

The property, full of towering Douglas Firs, is a blank canvas. I want to build a cabin WITH MY OWN HANDS. I want to have a massive garden. I want to catch my own fish and crabs, dig for my own clams, harvest my own oysters. I have done many of these things in short spurts over the years but it always ends and I head back to the city and a much less satisfying life.

This is the life I want, all the time. That's why have been a Mustachian far longer than this site has been in existence. This site hasn't been a revelation for me. It has been a CONFIRMATION that it has been the right path all along.

I wish we had a mustachian equivalent to "Amen Brother!" that I could use for this.

[DollarBill]

So I can finish my to do list!! :)

[Roland of Gilead]

My wife and I are blessed to own 5 acres on a B.C. Gulf Island - Washingtonians are familiar with the San Juan Islands, which are just across an invisible watery border from our place. People who have been to these islands know it for the paradise it is - especially from June to September.

I wonder if I have sailed past your island.  We spent a good bit of time gunkholing in the San Juan Islands in our Montgomery 17 sailboat.

[Jon_Snow]

My wife and I are blessed to own 5 acres on a B.C. Gulf Island - Washingtonians are familiar with the San Juan Islands, which are just across an invisible watery border from our place. People who have been to these islands know it for the paradise it is - especially from June to September.

I wonder if I have sailed past your island.  We spent a good bit of time gunkholing in the San Juan Islands in our Montgomery 17 sailboat.

We look right across at Orcas, Stuart, and San Juan Island... pretty safe bet you have been out front of our place at some point.

[Cassie]

It was all about having control over my time and doing what I wanted. I found out within 6 months that it meant that I still wanted to work p.t. teaching a online uni course and doing some consulting.  I was 58 & hubby 54 so not real young but it has been wonderful. I love having to rarely set the alarm, change our plans at the last minute, take a vacation without planning much ahead, just being more spontaneous in general.  I still love to work but not nearly as much. When I first retired I thought I was sick of working but I was not-I was just sick of all the stuff that goes with it.

[seanc0x0]

I do this because I have way too many hobbies and not enough time.

Plus, every day I spend an hour in the car going to a windowless box to do pointless things while shelling out a good portion of my income so someone else can watch my daughter grow up, I die a little inside.

[awakenedsoul]

Hi puglogic!
The removal of stress. I had a very fulfilling career and lived my dream of dancing in Broadway shows on tour. But, pushing 50, I'm in a new phase. I'm glad I danced while I was young. It's over quickly.  I still audition for the older character parts, but there aren't that many. I like doing all the things that save me money. I'm very self motivated, so exercising in my living room, riding my bike for transportation, and cooking from scratch suit me well. The more I live this way, the more money I find that I attract. It also gives me time to enjoy my orchard, chicken, dogs, and knit my clothes. I have time to keep the house clean, stay organized, and enjoy hobbies. 

[Zaga]

I am motivated by comparing my mother's well-off parents to my father's poor mother. I decided young which way I wanted to go. MMM is a great way to get there!

[brewer12345]

I was 25 or 26.  Working an office job, a homeowner, married and moving up: success, right?  I hated it.  There had to be more to life.  So we did what made sense to get ahead, saved til it hurt, and now I am free at 40. 

[Daisy]

A lot of good things have been brought up in this thread which I agree with:
1. Financial security
2. Doing something more meaningful with my life
3. etc., etc.

One thing I want to add is...because I am SLOW and I love it! Everyone is in such a rush and they want me to be as rushed as them too. I want to be able to do things slowly and enjoy them. Slow cooking, slow eating, slow exercise (endurance), slow...well you get my point...this could go in a totally non-PC direction.

I work in software and the new trend is to micromanage everything using Agile processes. It might have some good attributes, but I think it takes away from designing things correctly because everything is daily meetings/status, just get something done and test it. I like to think of the big picture before delving in and this approach is the total opposite of it.

I like to bike ride and do other sports and everyone is always rushing to go faster. How about going at my own pace and enjoying the scenery?!? Seriously...I did a two day bike ride to Key West and the group I was with wanted me to ride in a pace line all of the way down. What that means is that you have to spend the whole time looking at the behind of the person in front of you instead of enjoying the beautiful scenery (water surrounding you as you ride over bridges from key to key). We all end up in the same place and you have to wait for the slowest person anyways so what is the rush?!?

I recently did a two day charity bike ride in Texas. I, of course, fell behind my friends. There was a road-side stop set up by some locals giving out free beer. So of course I stopped and chatted and drank. I also stopped for some free lemonade being handed out by a cute little girl. I also got a free massage from a hunky fireman at one of the alloted rest stops. I told my friends about it at the end of the ride and they hadn't even noticed the stops. Their loss! And I was still able to ride 100 miles in one day (first time I ever did that). I was one of the last ones in though.

People are so rushed that you plan a get-together and they leave an hour after they show up because they totally overbook themselves.

I am a night owl and don't want to feel rushed about going to sleep early. I was recently ridiculed by a family member wondering why I texted them at 2am. Because I want to stay up late and not feel rushed into going to work early!

So one of the main reasons for FIRE is to enjoy life. I am proudly a tortoise and not a hare.

[mxt0133]

This one took me some time to answer as most have already said what i was going to say, but then I thought about happiness.  I mostly agree that our level of happiness is pretty constant. Basically that if a person is naturally happy then even if they were to become permanently disabled that person will return to their happy state eventually.  Vice versa, that if someone was a grump and hit the lottery eventually he will be no more happier with the money, sure he'll be able to do or buy more things but he'll find something else to complain about.  I have experienced this many times, earn more money, not really happier, find a job more interesting still not happier, work less and be less stressed just as happy.  We are very good a adapting to our present situation.  Sure we might be more comfortable or less comfortable from time to time but our general level of happiness stays about the same.

So I guess the reason I seek FI is to have options.  I know my level of happiness will not really change after I reach FI but I want to be able to experiment and try different thing without the monetary concerns of my decisions.  I'm just as happy now with less stuff, less fancy meals and less traveling, but I want to have those options without being tied to a job.

I work in software and the new trend is to micromanage everything using Agile processes. It might have some good attributes, but I think it takes away from designing things correctly because everything is daily meetings/status, just get something done and test it. I like to think of the big picture before delving in and this approach is the total opposite of it.

Disclaimer I am a SCRUM master, I would have to disagree with you on this one, one of the main tenants of Agile is to focus on doing what is valuable, and if research and design is required to meet requirements then there are no short cuts they should be done.  What I see happen a lot is over engineering.  A lot of time is wasted on implementing things that do not bring value and by the time they are completed the requirements have changed.  That is the value of getting things done vs being perfect.

[Daisy]

I work in software and the new trend is to micromanage everything using Agile processes. It might have some good attributes, but I think it takes away from designing things correctly because everything is daily meetings/status, just get something done and test it. I like to think of the big picture before delving in and this approach is the total opposite of it.

Disclaimer I am a SCRUM master, I would have to disagree with you on this one, one of the main tenants of Agile is to focus on doing what is valuable, and if research and design is required to meet requirements then there are no short cuts they should be done.  What I see happen a lot is over engineering.  A lot of time is wasted on implementing things that do not bring value and by the time they are completed the requirements have changed.  That is the value of getting things done vs being perfect.

My company is somewhat new to this process and from what some of those that have studied Agile have told me, we are not doing it right. I am sure it has some good points. The one project I worked on using Agile had us rushing into architecture and design way too quickly because we had to meet some artificially constructed schedule. We ended up having to go back and re-visit the requirements and had to redo all of the work. At this point, we were way behind schedule and were rushed to get the new designs done. I am sure there was a better Agile-way to do it. I am not a process expert but am learning more.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Glad you asked.  The only reason I have followed this site (aka 'doing this') is because I thought MMM would flame out at some point.  Now I realize he is pretty well set (with his blog income, even if his 'initial plan' is somewhat BS), so I am on my own, but I had a really solid plan, it just took a little longer.  It involved waiting until I hit a Million, and I did, and now I really have no reason to be burdened by 'towing the line'.  I think the environment is beyond America's control, given what a small percentage of land mass, natural resource, and population we are Globally, but I wouldn't mind trying to be a positive influence on those things.  However, Americans can have an outsized impact on trying to prolong the good times, so I would like to give back now that I'm at 'the finish line'.  And MMM has a 'following', almost religious, so this is a good place to try to do good, if your perspective of good is trying to 'save the world'.

[mxt0133]

Now I realize he is pretty well set (with his blog income, even if his 'initial plan' is somewhat BS)

May I ask what 'initial plan' of MMM you are referring to and why it is somewhat 'BS', I am genuinely curious?

[arebelspy]

Now I realize he is pretty well set (with his blog income, even if his 'initial plan' is somewhat BS)

May I ask what 'initial plan' of MMM you are referring to and why it is somewhat 'BS', I am genuinely curious?

Yeah, having a 750k portfolio (approx what MMM had, IIRC) on 25k spending (and a 400k paid off home helping keep the spending at that level, and able to be tapped if necessary) is a 3.3% SWR.  Seems pretty fine.

Or, you know, BS.

/eyeroll

[steveo]

I work in software and the new trend is to micromanage everything using Agile processes. It might have some good attributes, but I think it takes away from designing things correctly because everything is daily meetings/status, just get something done and test it. I like to think of the big picture before delving in and this approach is the total opposite of it.

Completely off-topic but I work in IT as well and we are using Agile techniques and I really love it. To me waterfall is useless because we spend a whole bunch of time on useless analysis and design whereas with Agile we are actually spending time on the real lower level design plus we don't produce a whole bunch of useless documentation.

[Squirrel away]

Now I realize he is pretty well set (with his blog income, even if his 'initial plan' is somewhat BS)

May I ask what 'initial plan' of MMM you are referring to and why it is somewhat 'BS', I am genuinely curious?

Yeah, having a 750k portfolio (approx what MMM had, IIRC) on 25k spending (and a 400k paid off home helping keep the spending at that level, and able to be tapped if necessary) is a 3.3% SWR.  Seems pretty fine.

Or, you know, BS.

/eyeroll

Lol. I was on another forum where MMM's plan was met with a lot of scoffing. I'm not amazing at maths but his figures seem to add up to me.:)

[mc6]

I'm interested in why other people do this - in what they're hoping to change, how they're hoping to be happier.

Care to share?   Got a minute?

Honestly, most days I HATE my exciting, well-paying govt job.  I've perhaps hated every job I've ever had.  Not needing the paycheck and benefits would be freakin' awesome.

[arebelspy]

Lol. I was on another forum where MMM's plan was met with a lot of scoffing. I'm not amazing at maths but his figures seem to add up to me.:)

That's because they think you need multiple millions to retire.  They don't understand the Trinity study, they don't understand what a SWR is, and they can't see spending only 25k without housing.  So his 750k sounds pitifully small, and they think he'll run out.  You need AT LEAST 2-3MM. 

They scoff out of ignorance.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Now I realize he is pretty well set (with his blog income, even if his 'initial plan' is somewhat BS)

May I ask what 'initial plan' of MMM you are referring to and why it is somewhat 'BS', I am genuinely curious?

Yeah, having a 750k portfolio (approx what MMM had, IIRC) on 25k spending (and a 400k paid off home helping keep the spending at that level, and able to be tapped if necessary) is a 3.3% SWR.  Seems pretty fine.

Or, you know, BS.

/eyeroll

Lol. I was on another forum where MMM's plan was met with a lot of scoffing. I'm not amazing at maths but his figures seem to add up to me.:)

Hey, I know I'm going to get flak for this beer induced honesty.  Better to get beat up on the internet than at the bar....

So, to back up my comment, MMM did not always have a 'fool proof' ER plan, IMHO.  The first time I realized this was in this post:  http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/08/my-750-bread-making-machine-2/  Basically, this guy I was so enamored with was equating not spending money (not buying bread) to making money. (However, he has since gone and updated the article twice, so I think he's toned down or clarified what he meant and now it just reads that he saved money, not made money).  However, on the initial read I thought 'by that logic, every homeless person in Houston qualifies as 'Financially Independent' and just waited to see how his logic fared in a second Great Recession (which incidentally, never happened).

Then came:  http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/12/01/mr-money-mustache-gets-passed-the-early-retirement-torch/  Jacob was a guy that really did have an awesome combination of frugality and brains.  I wouldn't say that ERE flamed out, but he pretty clearly stated, at least at that point in his life, that there was more to life than fighting society (or at least the Internet Police) to be called 'retired'.  I wondered if this would happen to MMM eventually.  In fact, it's the core of my next post about what I'm calling this next phase of my life.  Although ER seems to have captured everyone's imagination, once you're FI, I'm of the opinion that you should actually try to avoid calling your situation 'retirement'.  My Dad ER'ed at 55.  He did exactly what society at large understands retirement to be, he hung up his pursuit of making money and did lots of leisurely things.  He spent money on fancy vacations, he did charity work in Haiti, and he blissfully let the world go on about its business.  I think that people in their 20's, 30's, and 40's are not 'retiring' like this and need a new word for it.  I am going to propose, 'exploring'.  We are downshifting from a good income that came with doing what others told us, to figuring out what we want to do.  Many of us will find pleasure in 'slow travel', and in many cases, there is also the possibility of having an income from following our dreams, but income is no longer the driver.  Being truly FI means we are free to try and fail for the next 40 years, because failure means something completely different to us.  Unfortunately I never got to find out what 'failure' would look like to MMM, other than maybe being so successful that he can't just go about his business.  I mused about this a long, long time ago...

Last but not least, the post that made me think MMM was leading others on the path to FIRE astray was:   http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/12/early-retirement-its-not-as-risky-as-you-think/  He really downplays (maybe from the benefit of hindsight) just how tough 2008/9 was on a retiree.  I can't imagine myself being ER'ed at that time, having what I recall was 600k in investments* cut in half, and an un-sellable house.  If I find myself in this situation, my wife will not be on board with me continuing to write a low-income blog while my professional degree and experience sits idle.  I also thought MMM 'retired' before Mrs.MM, which maybe helped him ride through the 2009 sell-off without needing to get a job.  Can't find a reference for that tho.

I don't have anything against Pete, this isn't meant to be a criticism, just my own opinion, and it has been a fantastic ride following him over the years, but now that he is putting a fancy metal roof on his house and under-floor heating, I don't really know why I'm still doing this (following his blog).  Even though I disagreed with him on many posts, it always got me thinking, but not so much anymore.  I do still get a lot out of the forum, especially ARS, DragonCar, CheddarStacker, Sol, and others comments. 

Thanks for reading my over-long, overly internalized, one-beer too many rambling
\shrug
:)

* http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/11/11/how-much-is-too-much-in-your-401k/

[arebelspy]

You are entitled to that opinion.

You may think 08 would have been harder than he portrayed it (maybe it was for you, but not for him), or that it should be called retirement or not (your dad's experience somehow being relevant to you?), or that it's relevant if his wife kept working when he FIRE'd (which she did, but why does it matter?  If she was able to retire, but chose not to because she liked her job.. who cares?).

Disagreeing with him on a few posts doesn't make the overall idea invalid though.  It doesn't mean his plan wasn't solid.  It's math.

MMM's big dream IS spreading the message of less consumption.  You're reading it, every time you visit the blog.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Thanks for being kind to my opinions.  I only said 'somewhat BS', and I tried to back it up a bit with what made me feel that way.  I think most people are here because of the big dream of early retirement, and are learning to reduce consumption as a byproduct.  It is a good outcome overall, but without ER being the payoff, I don't think people will reduce consumption.  Again, that's another opinion, which is why I'm following this thread...  Hope I didn't hijack it. 

[Cheddar Stacker]

Interesting that a beer induced rant occurred at 7:53 am. Hmmm. Hopefully that's just when you hit "post". : )

As far as flaws in MMM's specific plan, I believe the strong likelihood of his success can be supported with this one fact - They spend around $25K/year (average maybe over all retirement years) and they have a rental property that nets about $20-24K/year IIRC. Everything else is just gravy.

As far as him downplaying the risks of ER, I think that just comes from his non-stop, over the top optimism. To be honest, that's one of the things I find most appealing about him because my general outlook before discovering this site was a mix of fear and pessimism most of the time. It's changed my outlook for the most part.

Fancy metal roof - good for the environment with reduced materials and reduced monthly energy costs, plus a nice DIY how-to for the readers. The posts are certainly different lately, but he's busy creating his version of a dream home. I like to watch it unfold, but I'm also ready for a few more "hard-hitting" posts.

Reducing consumption for the sake of reducing consumption (rather than to achieve FI) is also very appealing to me. I'm not sure if I would do it as much without the bi-product of achieving FI, but I've found it creates a very euphoric feeling all by itself. Truly realizing how little you need to be happy is a wonderful thing.

I come less for the blog, and more for the forum these days anyway. This is an awesome community.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Interesting that a beer induced rant occurred at 7:53 am. Hmmm. Hopefully that's just when you hit "post". : )

The beer was only relevant to the initial post at 9:25 pm (not long after which I went to bed).  Basically ignore any post from me that starts with "I'm glad you asked..." 

\ forehead slap

Also wholeheartedly agree, this is indeed an awesome community!

[DoubleDown]

I'd say MMM's initial plan was very solid, and would have survived the recession even if he did not end up with all the blog income. As Cheddar Stacker pointed out, with a paid off house and a rental property that already covered their living expenses, they were set, and the market downturn did not threaten that.

It is true that retiring in 2009 on $600k solely in equities, with $25k in annual expenses and no fallback plans, could have been a rough ride for an early retiree. But MMM has never advocated someone without self-sufficiency or safety margins to follow a weak plan like that in the first place, and he did not follow a plan like that himself. He had numerous fallbacks like the rental income, paid off house, and marketable skills and self sufficiency. And even in a "worst case" scenario of going back to work, it would not have been difficult for MMM or his wife to find jobs to cover their $25k in living expenses sometime between the ages of 30 and, say, 60, when their 600k might otherwise run out. Hell, even if they were completely stupid and lost $300k in the downturn, had no rental or other income, and foolishly put their remaining $300k in the bank earning 0%, it would last 12 years at their spending rate -- more than ample time to enact a Plan B.

EscapeVelocity2020, you are certainly not alone, as my (very skeptical in all things) wife also feels like MMM has "pulled a fast one" making all the blog income. Unfortunately, it reinforces her fears that ER is a plan of doom. DOOM!!

[Roland of Gilead]

It seems sort of typical in these early retiree people who start advocating early retirement.  The publicity and associated increase in earnings from the process of letting other people realize they can live simple and retire early causes the financial circumstances of the advocates to change considerably.  It is a lot like reality TV when they follow a crab fisherman or gold miner and the show becomes a big success.   The person being followed eventually becomes somewhat fake in their activity.

Not that I am saying MMM or Jacob are fake, but they no longer have the small financial income that they relied on when spreading their early retirement and low self consumption lifestyle.

It must be like the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.  You can't examine the financial position of a individual without changing that state.

[Fireman]

I do it for the stability.  Pre MMM, I had a financed SUV, some credit card debt, and a penchant for spending.  I only contributed 6% to a pre retirement account, had no IRA, and no savings.  Bills were paid when they were due but never early, and I lived paycheck to paycheck. 

Since then, I've traded in the SUV for a used Civic, have no credit card debt, and constantly question any purchase including coffee at the local Wawa.  I increased my pre retirement contribution to 10% in January and recently to 15%, I have an IRA that I plan to max this year, and I have money in a savings account.  I have all my bills for the next month paid around the 20th of the month before because I pay them the moment they arrive.  I don't know that i'll retire early since I get full benefits at 51, but not having to worry about money between now and then is amazing. 

I come less for the blog, and more for the forum these days anyway. This is an awesome community.

+1

I know i've said it before, but the MMM blog and this community have helped me immensely.  From everyone here, I've learned about how to not spend, save, manage, and even employ my money. 

[Cassie]

I agree that it is not about what Mr MM does with his $ etc but about his philosophy and how to put it into practice.  Also I think many people do not blindly follow his advice but use what works for them & leave the rest. I have actually been pretty frugal most of my life but did fall off the horse so to speak and made some dumb investments, etc.  Then I had to clean up that mess and make permanent changes to get us back to a great point in our lives.  Also if he wins a million dollars tomorrow it does not suddenly mean that his advice is bad.  His actual circumstances may change -so what?

[Squirrel away]

I agree that it is not about what Mr MM does with his $ etc but about his philosophy and how to put it into practice.  Also I think many people do not blindly follow his advice but use what works for them & leave the rest.

Yes, I agree.

Personally I don't even know how to ride a bike :o so I can't join in with the bike love on here.:)

[Eric]

I just realized I never answered this even though I think about it all the time.

I'm doing this for my wife.  She works crazy hours and always has.  There's no way she would make it to traditional retirement age without burnout, even though she (claims she) likes her job.  I work a fair number myself, and I've never liked my job.  There are weeks that go by where I feel like I haven't seen her at all.  I have this grand vision where I'll actually get to spend quality time with her everyday.  And dogs.  We need dogs too, but between working hours and crazy COL here, it's not feasible until FIRE.

Me, my wife, and our pack of dogs, enjoying the last 45 years of life together.  It's glorious!

[Mlkmn]

My wife and I are going to start a permaculture based homestead/market farm/community center/bed and breakfast and use it as a ministry to allow people to refresh, recuperate, and build relationships with others.

Very close to self sustained with super low income needs. We can easily live off less than 15,000 annually with a paid off home, so we should be very sustainable once we are off the daily grind and have some sort of income coming from the business. I may also start a board game cafe.

As far as stuff goes, I want to buy some more board games and some other ultralight backpacking gear, so I need a couple thousand extra bucks to do that. My wife just wants craft things to make wooden bowels and cards and such. Mostly we want a few things that last and create memories well into the future.

A simple life is so refreshing.

[nawhite]

My wife and I are going to start a permaculture based homestead/market farm/community center/bed and breakfast and use it as a ministry to allow people to refresh, recuperate, and build relationships with others.

Very close to self sustained with super low income needs. We can easily live off less than 15,000 annually with a paid off home, so we should be very sustainable once we are off the daily grind and have some sort of income coming from the business. I may also start a board game cafe.

As far as stuff goes, I want to buy some more board games and some other ultralight backpacking gear, so I need a couple thousand extra bucks to do that. My wife just wants craft things to make wooden bowels and cards and such. Mostly we want a few things that last and create memories well into the future.

A simple life is so refreshing.

Where do you want to do this? Staying at a BnB like this sounds like a blast. It reminds me of a BnB/restaurant I ate at in Friendsville, MD the riverside hotel http://riversidehotel.us Zillow says the business if for sale even.

[DoubleDown]

Since then, I've traded in the SUV for a used Civic, have no credit card debt, and constantly question any purchase including coffee at the local Wawa.  I increased my pre retirement contribution to 10% in January and recently to 15%, I have an IRA that I plan to max this year, and I have money in a savings account.  I have all my bills for the next month paid around the 20th of the month before because I pay them the moment they arrive.  I don't know that i'll retire early since I get full benefits at 51, but not having to worry about money between now and then is amazing. 

Those are all awesome improvements, good for you! Doesn't it feel amazing to be in such control now and building your wealth, stability, and independence? I don't know if you've had enough time pass with these changes to start seeing the incredible compounding effects, but once it gets going it's equally amazing.

I have a retirement pension too (fed), but I'm giving up some of the pretty sweet benefits in exchange for retiring early. Fortunately it's not "all or nothing"; I'll still get a percentage of my salary for life, but obviously smaller than if I stayed for many more years. Also by not staying until official retirement age (minimum 56 for me), I'm forgoing the federal health care for life, social security supplemental annuity, etc. But none of that stuff is worth the freedom I now have, and I feel like I've hit more than enough already, so I left. Wonder if yours is more of an all-or-nothing situation? Might be worth investigating if you haven't already.

[enigmaT120]

I am different and weird and would like the freedom to be solitary and independent.

I'm just like innerscorecard.

[CryingInThePool]

Because I realized that there must be a better way to spend my life.   

Possibly a purpose vacuum more extremely felt as a SINK with no work life balance but when the job bleeds into your nightmares and your personal time is spent primarily with coworkers who are drinking, shopping, and complaining their way through the same all-consuming corporate machine it starts to make you question why you are even alive.   If your only responsibility is to yourself and you spend 90% of your waking hours miserable then your whole life is broken. 

That was the wake-up call for me.   Not in the sense that I was depressed (although I may have been) but more logistically. What is next?  Why am I working? What is the desired end state for how I've spent all this time?   I still don’t have exact answers to those questions but I know it’s not more of the same and knowing that has made all the difference.