whole house filter

[SachaFiscal]

I had a plumber come to fix a couple of issues and he recommended putting in a Halo 5 whole house water filter.  It's quite expensive ~$4500 but he said that it would remove the buildup in our pipes and make the pipes last a lot longer (in addition to the benefit of having contaminants removed from drinking and bathing water).  Does anyone have a Halo 5 whole house filter?  Do you think this is a good idea to get or just a waste of money?

[sol]

Where do you live?  Are you on a well?

Generally speaking, these things are a giant ripoff unless you know your drinking water is contaminated.  In which case, that is still to much to pay for a good RO system and your local health department should subsidize that cost for you.

Edit: having spent two minutes on their website, I can conclusively say that this snake oil company is pushing pseudoscientific bullshit involving water filtration with magical magnets.  Please fire your plumber.

[SachaFiscal]

I live in a suburban neighborhood in southern California.  We have some contaminants in our water but all under the federal limits.   We have an under the sink RO system already which came with the house when we bought it.  It works really well for our drinking water.  I thought the whole house filter might prevent buildup in our pipes and water heater, extending their life.  Also it might be better for our skin.

I'm worried that I can't find many independent reviews of this filter though.

[sol]

Your pipes do not need their life extended.  Pipes aren't really consumable items, on normal human lifespans.  Some parts of Europe still have their original pipes that are thousands of years old.

If you're under your MCL's, then your water is healthy to drink.  You don't even need an RO system.  You DEFINITELY do not need a magical Halo 5 that cleanses your auras with mystical fields of crystal energy. 

Your plumber is either an idiot or a charlatan.  Do not buy his garbage.

[GrumpyPenguin]

Sol cracks me up.  But yeah, sounds like a huge waste of money, which you would essentially be flushing down the toilet :).

[Mtngrl]

I have a neighbor who is a big believer in the system you describe, but there is absolutely no scientific basis for it.
And water pipes don't get 'build up.' At least not under most circumstances. We have a whole house water filter from Home Depot that my husband installed with a sediment filter and a carbon filter for chlorine. Our water company heavily chlorinates the water and we hate the taste. But it was a few hundred dollars, not thousands.

[Le Poisson]

I have replaced 80 year old galvanized steel pipes in old houses. Not because they built up with sediment and clogged, but because they rusted and wore through.

Agree with the others this is not worth buying.

[sol]

Our water company heavily chlorinates the water and we hate the taste. But it was a few hundred dollars, not thousands.

If you have a water company, then they have a professional chemist who regularly tests your water to ensure it is safe.  People on municipal water systems in America have the cleanest and best tasting water in the entire world.

Chlorine dissipates rapidly once your water is exposed to air.  You can buy an activated carbon filter, or a Brita pitcher, or you could just put tap water in a regular pitcher in your fridge and it would taste the same in a few hours.

Whole house filtration systems are dumb.  You don't need filtered water to flush your toilets or water your lawn, and you'd just be wasting money on filters for all of that water.  If you really need to drink water immediately after it comes out of the tap, and can't be bothered to put a pitcher in your fridge, then you can buy an activated carbon filter for JUST that one sink that will be much cheaper to install and maintain than a whole-house filter.

But plumbers need work, too, and they can smell a mark a mile away.  Home owners who express concerns will always get offered an expensive and useless solution, because people like to spend money to make themselves feel better even when their solution is fraudulent.  Just look at all the people who wear magnetic bracelets for joint pain instead of just taking naproxen, or crystal necklaces to "center" themselves instead of just de-stressing and getting enough sleep.  Sometimes the more effective solution is cheaper, but a for-profit economy will never push those real solutions when there is money to be made by selling someone a Halo 5 whole-house filtration system.

[FinallyAwake]

You can get filtered shower heads to keep the contaminants off your skin.  Would be a LOT cheaper than the whole house filter.

[SachaFiscal]

Thanks for all the replies. I think you're right, ~4500 is a lot to spend on a whole house filter. There are many other reviewed products that are cheaper. The reverse osmosis system already installed under the kitchen sink is good enough. It's good enough to have tasty drinking water.  And I could try a shower filter if I really want to. But I've been perfectly happy so far until the guy came and gave his sales pitch.  I think the guy really played up on our fears as inexperienced home owners.  He said he sells a bunch of these filters yet couldn't give me anyone to contact for a testimonial.  There isn't any independent reviews of the product.
thanks all for saving me from wasting a ton of money. This community is the best!

[SachaFiscal]

Doing a web search I am seeing some articles which state that hard water can damage pipes and some that say it is a myth. Some say It happens with steel  pipes definitely and copper pipes not as much.

For example these articles indicate it does cause harm:
http://www.wise-geek.com/what-are-the-effects-of-hard-water-on-pipes.htm
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/water-softener-hurt-plumbing-system-96097.html

A lot of plumbing sites and an article on Angie's list says hard water does cause build up but unexpectedly these plumbing and filtration sites say it is a myth:
http://www.rycoplumbing.com/blog-media/2013/12/16/is-water-softening-a-scam-the-real-truth-about-hard-water
https://www.lifesourcewater.com/myths-of-hard-water.php

It's really difficult to figure out which is true.

Also should I replace piping in my house after a certain number of years to prevent a major leak or just wait until a leak occurs? I think we have copper pipes.
I'm just wondering if this is a major expense (like a new roof) that I should plan for in retirement

[Valhalla]

I paid for a whole house filter for 10 years, and the thing was a nightmare to maintain.  I got rid of it and don't think it's worth it.

[PDXTabs]

Our water company heavily chlorinates the water and we hate the taste. But it was a few hundred dollars, not thousands.

Chlorine dissipates rapidly once your water is exposed to air.  You can buy an activated carbon filter, or a Brita pitcher, or you could just put tap water in a regular pitcher in your fridge and it would taste the same in a few hours.

I drink and shower in chlorinated water, with that said I'm not sure either are a good idea. There isn't any debate that I am aware of that chlorinated drinking water causes some cancers. You probably don't want to be aerosolizing it and breathing it in multiple times per week. With that said it is certainly better than having Cholera in your drinking water. But this is old technology, if we had good municipal pipes we could be using UV instead.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earth-talks-tapped-out/

[Le Poisson]

Doing a web search I am seeing some articles which state that hard water can damage pipes and some that say it is a myth. Some say It happens with steel  pipes definitely and copper pipes not as much.

For example these articles indicate it does cause harm:
http://www.wise-geek.com/what-are-the-effects-of-hard-water-on-pipes.htm
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/water-softener-hurt-plumbing-system-96097.html

A lot of plumbing sites and an article on Angie's list says hard water does cause build up but unexpectedly these plumbing and filtration sites say it is a myth:
http://www.rycoplumbing.com/blog-media/2013/12/16/is-water-softening-a-scam-the-real-truth-about-hard-water
https://www.lifesourcewater.com/myths-of-hard-water.php

It's really difficult to figure out which is true.

Also should I replace piping in my house after a certain number of years to prevent a major leak or just wait until a leak occurs? I think we have copper pipes.
I'm just wondering if this is a major expense (like a new roof) that I should plan for in retirement

If your plumbing supply lines work OK now, they will probably last a lifetime. The exception is if you have a century-old home with original lead, Cast iron, or Galvanized steel pipes. Google search these if you don't know what they look like. If you have lead pipes you want them replaced ASAP - but this is very rare to find anymore.

If you have copper, and it isn't already leaking, it should be fine for the rest of your life. If you have copper in an exterior wall or unheated space (Garage) there is a chance the pipe could freeze and burst. In an older home that has already been through multiple winters, this is less of a concern than in a new home that is untested. If this happens you will have a $5 plumbing repair and a $5000 reno job. I have had two burst pipes in 20 years of home ownership. Both in unfinished basements, both on new branches I thought I could get away with - one to an exterior spigot (it wasn't properly drained before winter) and one to a garage sink (I was young and dumb).

PEX is a good material because it is cheap and easy to install and can bend around corners where copper cannot. Use of pex in residential potable water systems only began in the early 2000's, although it was used much earlier for radiant heat applications. Being a new material, no one knows if it will age elegantly or if we will start seeing compression joints fail or leachate from the plastic getting in the water.  I am not trying to scare you, but these are things I am watching for before I will do a whole house in PEX. In my own place I have a few patches in exposed basement spaces. They have held up well so far. I am watching for PEX failures in the next 10 yrs or so before I adopt the material whole-hog.

You can read more on PEX and its advantages and disadvantages here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-linked_polyethylene

[Digital Dogma]

I have replaced 80 year old galvanized steel pipes in old houses. Not because they built up with sediment and clogged, but because they rusted and wore through.

Agree with the others this is not worth buying.

This is one of the reasons why galvanized pipes are not used for drinking water, and in general why its a bad idea to mix unlike metals together in piped systems. When you combine a galvanized steel pipe with a copper pipe and perhaps some brass fittings or iron fittings, you've created a difference in electrical potential within the pipe. The difference in electrical potential causes rust in one of the metals, they call it galvanic corrosion.

Also, some water can be acidic and corrode copper pipes, I lived in a place that would spring pinhole leaks from the pipes between the first floor and finished basement which would lead to mold and mildew before the problem was detected. I'd get some pH paper with some specific ranges (maybe 6-8) and see if you fall at the low end of the pH scale.

[Sibley]

If you are concerned about your water quality, you can get it tested. Nothing beats hard data. Find a reputable lab, and send in a water sample. Plus, public water supplies have to be tested every so often, you should be able to get a copy of the last test results by calling them.

[CmFtns]

Water treatment systems have some of the WORST high-pressure sales tactic bull shit scams out there. They prey on your fears and make you think it is unsafe to drink or a danger to your house/property...


You said it yourself...

I've been perfectly happy so far until the guy came and gave his sales pitch.

It's crazy that these people can convince people they need these things. Copper pipes last a very very long time do not worry about them or buildup it's fine.

These are scams plain and simple

[wienerdog]

If you are concerned about your water quality, you can get it tested. Nothing beats hard data. Find a reputable lab, and send in a water sample. Plus, public water supplies have to be tested every so often, you should be able to get a copy of the last test results by calling them.

Best post so far.  As noted the water industry isn't the best at doing the right thing for their customers.  Get a professional test done.  See an example in Flint MI on how elected officials will also lie to stay in power (Government at its best!). 10 people died and more than 80 sick.  I think some felonies finally came out of it late last year.  Also many outfits will sell you crap you don't need as noted earlier.

If you are in the city the most you probably need is a $75 test and a water softener if you don't have one. Some people will install a whole house carbon filter depending on the chlorine levels in the water.  I am on a well and responsible for it's safety but I would much rather trust my work and judgement than some elected official.  Here is the lab I use:

http://www.cleanwatertesting.com/test-your-water-quality/

Post the results here or ask several outfits but always go to multiple sources so you don't get screwed.  You can also start here if you want to educate yourself and get a better overall understanding:

https://www.wqa.org/Portals/0/Publications/Water-Treatment-For-Dummies.pdf

More than likely the results will be very close to the public tests but it doesn't hurt to check every once in a while.  Use your judgement if something changes like smell or taste.  I was also quoted big bucks for units when I moved to the country with a well that had problems.  They units they were trying to sell would have taken care of it but I didn't need that much.  I ended up educating myself and did up a DIY system from craigslist people that moved to city water with similar problems to mine.  Bought the rest new for pretty much wholesale once I saw how the industry operated.  But the tests don't lie.  I have just as good as water as any city plant can produce.

[kimmarg]

There IS a type of plastic pipe that can break. Unfortunately it was very popular in new construction about 30 years ago and lasts about 30 years. My inlaws came home one day to 1" of water in teh basement after the pipe burst. Wasn't cold or anything just very old very brittle plastic. The new flexible PEX is fine as is copper. If you have older plastic pipes look into getting them replaced. Oh and this has nothing to do with the water - plastic just degrades.

[Incandenza]

Our patented HALO ION Inline Water Conditioner uses multi-reversing polarity permanent magnetic fields to
alter the molecular structure of positively and negatively charged ions of dissolved calcium and magnesium.
This causes the hard water minerals that would normally cause lime scale to stay suspended in the water instead
of attacking pipes and appliances. The conditioned water also helps prevent corrosion due to scale and will
dissolve existing scale over time.

This is great.  So many words, so little sense.   

[Highbeam]

I am a civil engineer and design and implement water treatment processes for my city. I also am on a well at my home and have added treatment there too.

There are MCLs for things that can kill you. There are also MCLs for things that won't hurt you but that are aesthetically objectionable. The most common is iron. This stuff will stain your fixtures, toilets, clothes, skin, etc. but won't kill you. I've removed iron (and also manganese which is similar but black instead of brown) from municipal supplies and iron from my home with iron filters.

First step as stated above is to have your water tested. Then we can get rid of whatever you have that is causing problems. Everything except radiation, I don't know how to fix that and don't want to learn.

[Daisy]

Hmmm...after suffering from a really bad skin rash that would make me scratch and bleed all over, after several attempts to resolve it, I finally figured out my water was causing these issues. About 5 years ago, the town I was living in started to upgrade the water system pipes, so I assume they added extra stuff to kill bacteria and stuff. I don't really know. All I know is my symptoms started from one day to the next and it took me a year to figure out it was the water. My neighbors didn't have outward symptoms, but did notice the water smelled different. I guess I am lucky that my skin is so sensitive that I quickly show symptoms if something is not right in my environment.

Anyways, after adding one of these expensive water softener systems, my skin totally cleared up. Money well spent, in my opinion.

I also moved the system with me when I moved to a neighboring town. Recently some symptoms returned, and after further analysis I figured out it was my old water heater corroding and adding stuff to the hot water while showering that was giving me a new rash. After replacing the water heater, the symptoms are gone again.

Sometimes I curse my skin issues, but by being so sensitive I feel I can quickly detect toxins in my environment and prevent internal, invisible damage that could be done by these toxins if there were no external signs of how it is affecting me. But itchy rashy skin is no fun...just something I have to deal with when toxins are around. I'm so happy to be skin clear again.

[Daisy]

I forgot to say that I got a carbon filter system for the whole house and added a reverse osmosis system just for the drinking water.

It was a large fixed initial cost, but the regular maintenance is just buying salt blocks every few months and replacing the filters every few years. There was a minimal cost for moving the system from one house to the new one.

I don't know anything about magnetic systems.