Author Topic: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?  (Read 109539 times)

jengod

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #100 on: March 16, 2016, 05:32:01 PM »
I'll vote for Bernie in our primary, and then I guess I will be in Clinton's "coalition of the unwilling" for the general.

Why? So many reasons, but let's start here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkSRJSUY0vs

rocketpj

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #101 on: March 16, 2016, 05:54:32 PM »

I am as anti Bush interventionism as anyone but do you remember what the world was like prior to the U.S. being the world's dominant military? In case you don't I'll fill you in. You'd be spreckining the deutch if they decided not to kill you. That or we'd be talking about the rape of Vancouver by the Empire of Japan. US military deterrent has been a safety net for the free world. A foreigner who's benefitted from that is not one who should be dogging it.

So I should keep my mouth shut for at least a century after you guys eventually decided to join a war against fascist dictatorships?  What is the accepted stfu period after someone else fights in a war that my grandparents all fought in as well?

American involvement definitely tipped the balance, but there is no way to know what would have happened without it.

I don't think the US had a cult of militarism in 1939, which is probably why you didn't get involved for the first few years (while my grandparents were already fighting...).  Now you do, and it's a different thing (being 70 years later and all).  Do you really think that some shit that happened 70 years ago makes any current shit OK?

How about we go back just in our own lifetimes?  Not a lot of great examples of US military intervention in the last 40 years.  I suppose the invasion of Grenada made for a decent Clint Eastwood movie. 

Honestly, if you want to glorify your military, spend zillions and strut around a bit I don't much care - we all have our hobbies.  But I do care when you get a stupendous preening ego like Trump, who talks a big talk and makes a big show of how tough he is, anywhere near the controls of the most powerful military in human history.  There is not a good precedent for large militaries answering to cults of personality.  Typically they have a wildly overoptimistic idea of how effectively they can invade or make war, get overextended and then fall to pieces, but only after inflicting millions of deaths.

Hell, the most powerful military in human history couldn't really effectively conquer and pacify one country that had a fairly large percentage of people who didn't want to be conquered.  Lots of people died though, and continue to die...

You have a massive military with an unexpected single point of failure, which is the presidency being won by a fascist.  So the fact that the US fought the Nazis alongside the rest of us doesn't mean I can't express concern for where you are all headed now.


tobitonic

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #102 on: March 16, 2016, 07:00:52 PM »
^ As a fellow American, I'd like to point out that not all of us are rabid warhawk jingoists, rocketpj. Just the loudest ones on the Internet...and much of our voting population, unfortunately.

tomsang

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #103 on: March 16, 2016, 07:18:50 PM »
My take on the candidates: 
Clinton: No. Just no. Not that again. Dishonest, I don't think she is actually all that great anyways--her track record is, IMHO, pretty piss-poor.
Bernie: Sane, honest, but cannot do math (IMHO).

Clinton and Bernie are crazy honest compared to the other candidates. Well the bar is pretty low.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-gop-presidential-candidates/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-democratic-presidential-candida/

onlykelsey

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #104 on: March 16, 2016, 07:20:55 PM »
Quote
Clinton and Bernie are crazy honest compared to the other candidates. Well the bar is pretty low.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-gop-presidential-candidates/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-democratic-presidential-candida/

It really is striking. I wish a politifact equivalent had been around for hte last century so we could see if it's always been this bad.  It's so strange that in a world of essentially infinite access to information, lying leaders have done so well.  Humans are strange.

Cressida

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #105 on: March 16, 2016, 08:19:27 PM »
My take on the candidates: 
Clinton: No. Just no. Not that again. Dishonest, I don't think she is actually all that great anyways--her track record is, IMHO, pretty piss-poor.
Bernie: Sane, honest, but cannot do math (IMHO).

Clinton and Bernie are crazy honest compared to the other candidates. Well the bar is pretty low.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-gop-presidential-candidates/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-democratic-presidential-candida/

For real. "Clinton is a liar" is just a trope. I challenge anyone to post real proof that Clinton has told lies. And I'm not talking about typical politician avoiding-saying-things-that-aren't-politically-safe. I mean an actual lie.

As for "her track record," she was one of the most liberal Senators during her time there, if that's what you think makes for a good record.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 10:01:39 PM by Cressida »

Jschange

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #106 on: March 16, 2016, 09:46:12 PM »
Mellie Grant. She's a republican, but also a feminist, and her wardrobe cancels out being a republican.

 

mtn

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #107 on: March 16, 2016, 11:47:39 PM »
My take on the candidates: 
Clinton: No. Just no. Not that again. Dishonest, I don't think she is actually all that great anyways--her track record is, IMHO, pretty piss-poor.
Bernie: Sane, honest, but cannot do math (IMHO).

Clinton and Bernie are crazy honest compared to the other candidates. Well the bar is pretty low.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-gop-presidential-candidates/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-democratic-presidential-candida/

For real. "Clinton is a liar" is just a trope. I challenge anyone to post real proof that Clinton has told lies. And I'm not talking about typical politician avoiding-saying-things-that-aren't-politically-safe. I mean an actual lie.

As for "her track record," she was one of the most liberal Senators during her time there, if that's what you think makes for a good record.

I went through her voting record back in 2008. Ignoring the votes that were nearly unanimous (i.e. passed with over 80%), I agreed with about 20% of her votes. I could be getting that slightly wrong, but the intent is correct--if you took out the votes that were passed or not passed with strong Republican and Democrat agreement, I agreed with very few of her votes. But that has more to do with my being a right-leaning Libertarian than anything.

But by track record overall, I meant more along the lines of the Health Reform of 93(?), some of her recommendations to Bill for staff (at least one of which went to prison), Benghazi, the email server...

I don't disagree that if you look at the 4 people that have a chance (Cruz, Trump, Bernie, Hillary) that she is the best choice (Trump and Cruz's track records are even worse, Bernie is a "moron" but at least "safe"), but I am not happy about that.

Cressida

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #108 on: March 17, 2016, 12:08:37 AM »
My take on the candidates: 
Clinton: No. Just no. Not that again. Dishonest, I don't think she is actually all that great anyways--her track record is, IMHO, pretty piss-poor.
Bernie: Sane, honest, but cannot do math (IMHO).

Clinton and Bernie are crazy honest compared to the other candidates. Well the bar is pretty low.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-gop-presidential-candidates/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-democratic-presidential-candida/

For real. "Clinton is a liar" is just a trope. I challenge anyone to post real proof that Clinton has told lies. And I'm not talking about typical politician avoiding-saying-things-that-aren't-politically-safe. I mean an actual lie.

As for "her track record," she was one of the most liberal Senators during her time there, if that's what you think makes for a good record.

I went through her voting record back in 2008. Ignoring the votes that were nearly unanimous (i.e. passed with over 80%), I agreed with about 20% of her votes. I could be getting that slightly wrong, but the intent is correct--if you took out the votes that were passed or not passed with strong Republican and Democrat agreement, I agreed with very few of her votes. But that has more to do with my being a right-leaning Libertarian than anything.

But by track record overall, I meant more along the lines of the Health Reform of 93(?), some of her recommendations to Bill for staff (at least one of which went to prison), Benghazi, the email server...

I don't disagree that if you look at the 4 people that have a chance (Cruz, Trump, Bernie, Hillary) that she is the best choice (Trump and Cruz's track records are even worse, Bernie is a "moron" but at least "safe"), but I am not happy about that.

yeah, OK. So when you said you thought Bernie was "sane and honest," I took that to mean that you had leftier sympathies. Since it's now clear that you don't, I am no longer interested in engaging you over Clinton's honesty. Right-leaners are not going to be influenced on that point.

Nonetheless, I will note that you did not provide any evidence of Clinton lying, as requested.

Socmonkey

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #109 on: March 17, 2016, 12:15:28 AM »
Quote

For real. "Clinton is a liar" is just a trope. I challenge anyone to post real proof that Clinton has told lies. And I'm not talking about typical politician avoiding-saying-things-that-aren't-politically-safe. I mean an actual lie.

As for "her track record," she was one of the most liberal Senators during her time there, if that's what you think makes for a good record.

Just to go a long way back to show no bias based on the current situation about Hillary. http://www.nytimes.com/1996/01/08/opinion/essay-blizzard-of-lies.html

And this article is always a good read. http://nypost.com/2015/10/02/secret-service-agents-hillary-is-a-nightmare-to-work-with/

Cressida

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #110 on: March 17, 2016, 01:03:39 AM »
Quote

For real. "Clinton is a liar" is just a trope. I challenge anyone to post real proof that Clinton has told lies. And I'm not talking about typical politician avoiding-saying-things-that-aren't-politically-safe. I mean an actual lie.

As for "her track record," she was one of the most liberal Senators during her time there, if that's what you think makes for a good record.

Just to go a long way back to show no bias based on the current situation about Hillary. http://www.nytimes.com/1996/01/08/opinion/essay-blizzard-of-lies.html

And this article is always a good read. http://nypost.com/2015/10/02/secret-service-agents-hillary-is-a-nightmare-to-work-with/

All of this is biased gossip and none of it addresses my point.

jrhampt

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #111 on: March 17, 2016, 06:44:39 AM »
Quote
Clinton and Bernie are crazy honest compared to the other candidates. Well the bar is pretty low.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-gop-presidential-candidates/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-democratic-presidential-candida/

It really is striking. I wish a politifact equivalent had been around for hte last century so we could see if it's always been this bad.  It's so strange that in a world of essentially infinite access to information, lying leaders have done so well.  Humans are strange.

It seems that we prefer who lies the best over who lies the least... but yes, the statistics are interesting in light of how often Hillary is accused of being dishonest.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 06:46:12 AM by jrhampt »

2buttons

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #112 on: March 17, 2016, 07:33:42 AM »
My take on the candidates: 
Clinton: No. Just no. Not that again. Dishonest, I don't think she is actually all that great anyways--her track record is, IMHO, pretty piss-poor.
Bernie: Sane, honest, but cannot do math (IMHO).

Clinton and Bernie are crazy honest compared to the other candidates. Well the bar is pretty low.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-gop-presidential-candidates/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-democratic-presidential-candida/

For real. "Clinton is a liar" is just a trope. I challenge anyone to post real proof that Clinton has told lies. And I'm not talking about typical politician avoiding-saying-things-that-aren't-politically-safe. I mean an actual lie.

As for "her track record," she was one of the most liberal Senators during her time there, if that's what you think makes for a good record.

Click on above link and click on the following sections, and see listing of lies.

Pants on fire
False
Mostly False
Half True

hedgefund10

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #113 on: March 17, 2016, 08:02:36 AM »
Bernie will raise my taxes by a ridiculous amount.

Hillary will raise my taxes not as much as Bernie. Also her husband sold out the middle class when he signed NAFTA. Hillary was gonna sell them out again with TPP until she flip-flopped.

Cruz is too far right. Not electable in the current welfare state.

So I support Trump. Will close the borders and stop the flood of illegal immigrants. Will force company's to raise wages and employ Americans. Will stop all these countries from screwing us with trade deals. Will make America a more competitive place for business i.e lower the corporate tax rate.

mtn

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #114 on: March 17, 2016, 09:33:27 AM »
My take on the candidates: 
Clinton: No. Just no. Not that again. Dishonest, I don't think she is actually all that great anyways--her track record is, IMHO, pretty piss-poor.
Bernie: Sane, honest, but cannot do math (IMHO).

Clinton and Bernie are crazy honest compared to the other candidates. Well the bar is pretty low.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-gop-presidential-candidates/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-democratic-presidential-candida/

For real. "Clinton is a liar" is just a trope. I challenge anyone to post real proof that Clinton has told lies. And I'm not talking about typical politician avoiding-saying-things-that-aren't-politically-safe. I mean an actual lie.

As for "her track record," she was one of the most liberal Senators during her time there, if that's what you think makes for a good record.

I went through her voting record back in 2008. Ignoring the votes that were nearly unanimous (i.e. passed with over 80%), I agreed with about 20% of her votes. I could be getting that slightly wrong, but the intent is correct--if you took out the votes that were passed or not passed with strong Republican and Democrat agreement, I agreed with very few of her votes. But that has more to do with my being a right-leaning Libertarian than anything.

But by track record overall, I meant more along the lines of the Health Reform of 93(?), some of her recommendations to Bill for staff (at least one of which went to prison), Benghazi, the email server...

I don't disagree that if you look at the 4 people that have a chance (Cruz, Trump, Bernie, Hillary) that she is the best choice (Trump and Cruz's track records are even worse, Bernie is a "moron" but at least "safe"), but I am not happy about that.

yeah, OK. So when you said you thought Bernie was "sane and honest," I took that to mean that you had leftier sympathies. Since it's now clear that you don't, I am no longer interested in engaging you over Clinton's honesty. Right-leaners are not going to be influenced on that point.

Nonetheless, I will note that you did not provide any evidence of Clinton lying, as requested.


My apologies, that post was about how her track record was, in my opinion, pretty bad (although I will not say it is any worse than anyone elses with the possible exception of Bernies, whose is relatively non-existent compared to hers simply because she's been a much more important decision maker in her career). 

Please note that I didn't say that she lied. I said she was dishonest. There is a small, but significant difference there. Perhaps that is a good thing in a president--I certainly cannot deny that she is a skilled politician.

Also, don't write me off because I'm right leaning. I can still be influenced; I am anti Clinton for a great variety of reasons (even though it can be argued that my job exists because of Willy), but that doesn't mean that I'm a foaming at the mouth racist Trump supporter. On the contrary, it is looking more and more like I'll be voting for either Hillary or Bernie in November. If Trump isn't the nominee (and Cruz is), I might still vote Democrat, but will be far more likely to vote either Green or Libertarian. The only possible way I vote Republican is if Kasich gets the nominee.

ransom132

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #115 on: March 17, 2016, 09:54:27 AM »
As a Canadian, I can't vote of course, but if I would be able to vote, my vote would go for Bernie since his policies resemble a lot to ours that we already have in place so it wouldn't be much different. The two politicians I wouldn't vote for is Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump....the first is a woman who is your typical politician a-la-Frank Underwood and the other one is a guy who just says what people want to hear without really showing how and he seems to always contradict himself. The bad news is that they seem the two likely candidates to battle for the job of president.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 09:57:54 AM by ransom132 »

rocketpj

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #116 on: March 17, 2016, 10:00:56 AM »
^ As a fellow American, I'd like to point out that not all of us are rabid warhawk jingoists, rocketpj. Just the loudest ones on the Internet...and much of our voting population, unfortunately.

I know that, of course.  Sadly, our national identities are mostly defined by how our country behaves outside our own borders.  So from the outside looking in we get a large dose of US militaristic triumphalism (which is in stark contrast to actual effectiveness, given that most of the invasions and bombings of the past 40-60 years have had little positive effect).

missmoneymachine

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #117 on: March 17, 2016, 11:44:51 AM »
Libertarian all the way.

I'm sick of the two party system.

FrogStash

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #118 on: March 17, 2016, 02:00:07 PM »
Whoever ends up with the Libertarian nomination.  It is time to destroy the Democrat-Republican single-party system.

+1

I even heard one talking head suggest that Trump could cause the demise of the Republican party and that the non-Trump republicans have discussed starting a new party and running a "third" party candidate.

Kris

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #119 on: March 17, 2016, 02:16:59 PM »
Bernie will raise my taxes by a ridiculous amount.

Hillary will raise my taxes not as much as Bernie. Also her husband sold out the middle class when he signed NAFTA. Hillary was gonna sell them out again with TPP until she flip-flopped.

Cruz is too far right. Not electable in the current welfare state.

So I support Trump. Will close the borders and stop the flood of illegal immigrants. Will force company's to raise wages and employ Americans. Will stop all these countries from screwing us with trade deals. Will make America a more competitive place for business i.e lower the corporate tax rate.

If you think Trump can or will do any of thse things, I have a bridge to sell you.

Northwestie

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #120 on: March 17, 2016, 02:25:32 PM »
Bernie will raise my taxes by a ridiculous amount.

Hillary will raise my taxes not as much as Bernie. Also her husband sold out the middle class when he signed NAFTA. Hillary was gonna sell them out again with TPP until she flip-flopped.

Cruz is too far right. Not electable in the current welfare state.

So I support Trump. Will close the borders and stop the flood of illegal immigrants. Will force company's to raise wages and employ Americans. Will stop all these countries from screwing us with trade deals. Will make America a more competitive place for business i.e lower the corporate tax rate.

If you think Trump can or will do any of thse things, I have a bridge to sell you.

Illegal immigration has been going down since 2005 -- while the militarized Border Patrol has quadrupled their budget.  Just how much more do we want to spend on the diminishing returns - nevermind the rouge killings of unarmed Mexicans by Border Patrol. 

Plus - just who do you think is going to pick fruit and vegetables, mow lawns, bus and server customers?  Here in WA, the fruit growers say they always try to hire citizens but they last maybe a day or two in the orchards before quitting.  Some type of worker program is needed.   Trump - a spoiled rich brat who inherited his money,  someone born on third base and thinks he hit a triple.   Plus dumb as a stump.

AZDude

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #121 on: March 17, 2016, 02:30:04 PM »
My take on the candidates: 
Clinton: No. Just no. Not that again. Dishonest, I don't think she is actually all that great anyways--her track record is, IMHO, pretty piss-poor.
Bernie: Sane, honest, but cannot do math (IMHO).

Clinton and Bernie are crazy honest compared to the other candidates. Well the bar is pretty low.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-gop-presidential-candidates/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-democratic-presidential-candida/

For real. "Clinton is a liar" is just a trope. I challenge anyone to post real proof that Clinton has told lies. And I'm not talking about typical politician avoiding-saying-things-that-aren't-politically-safe. I mean an actual lie.

As for "her track record," she was one of the most liberal Senators during her time there, if that's what you think makes for a good record.

This is tough, because like it or not I have to link Hillary to Bill, and the former president Clinton was a very dishonest person. Which leaves me with only so many conclusions about Hillary. Either she is delusional about her husband. She is so hell-bent on getting to the presidency that she sticks with him for political gain. Or, she is/was OK with the general dishonesty that permeated his administration both as governor and president.

Remember, Bill Clinton had his law license suspended, was involved in multiple sexual harassment lawsuits, and was accused of numerous other nefarious stuff ranging from taking Chinese political donations in return for a more favorable trade status to pardoning his good friend of real estate fraud(which he was also accused of but never indicted).


starguru

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #122 on: March 17, 2016, 05:19:06 PM »
I've voted Democrat in the past but am crossing over.  I sure as hell hope Kasick somehow pulls this out.  Only Republican out there who acknowledges human role in climate change.  A bit too harsh on the abortion issue, but that's his only trait that bothers me, and compared to the others he is superior.

Trump:  Too racist.  Which is too bad because I might have supported him otherwise. 
Clinton:  Too made it up.  SNL had it right "you are really going to love the Hillary Clinton we've put together for you".  She wants it too much, and I find that disturbing. 
Sanders:  Only has one tool.  His solution to everything is government programs and to raise taxes. 
Cruz:  Too conservative to me.  Seems like a slimy POS to me.

In the end, the President has to be all Americans' President.  I think this "winner takes all, if we don't get what we want we'll take our toys and go" mentality we have in this country is the biggest threat to our future.  I want someone who can lead us to solutions and just be a moderate.  Kasich seems closest. 
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 05:21:05 PM by starguru »

onlykelsey

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #123 on: March 17, 2016, 05:20:39 PM »
Rubio's not running... did you mean Cruz?  Rubio comes off as a slimeball, Cruz comes off as unlikable, smart, and terrifying to me.

starguru

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #124 on: March 17, 2016, 05:21:18 PM »
Rubio's not running... did you mean Cruz?  Rubio comes off as a slimeball, Cruz comes off as unlikable, smart, and terrifying to me.

Ha, yeah, thanx.

Edit: I liked Rubio.  I thought he was relatively moderate.  Very smart.  He did seem kind of like a "little boy".  In any event, I would have preferred Kasich due to the climate issue.

I agree with you 100% on Cruz. 
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 05:25:20 PM by starguru »

Less

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #125 on: March 17, 2016, 05:40:33 PM »
from here in NZ i loathe our Mixed Members Proportional system during elections, but right now it's looking pretty good for many of the reasons mentioned above. In an all or nothing event it is just so hard to agree 100% with any of them.

clifp

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #126 on: March 17, 2016, 05:50:24 PM »
I voted for Kasich, but I think he has close to no chance of being the nominee. I've been voting since 1980 and I can say that without a doubt if this election is between Hillary and Drumpf, it will be hands down the worse choices I've ever had.  I'm not by nature really cynical about politicians,  for instance in 2008, I found much to like about both Obama and McCain.

justajane

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #127 on: March 17, 2016, 05:55:21 PM »
On Tuesday I voted for Hilary, even though my values align more with Bernie.

I'm a realist.

hedgefund10

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #128 on: March 17, 2016, 07:02:47 PM »
Bernie will raise my taxes by a ridiculous amount.

Hillary will raise my taxes not as much as Bernie. Also her husband sold out the middle class when he signed NAFTA. Hillary was gonna sell them out again with TPP until she flip-flopped.

Cruz is too far right. Not electable in the current welfare state.

So I support Trump. Will close the borders and stop the flood of illegal immigrants. Will force company's to raise wages and employ Americans. Will stop all these countries from screwing us with trade deals. Will make America a more competitive place for business i.e lower the corporate tax rate.

If you think Trump can or will do any of thse things, I have a bridge to sell you.

I think he will. Even if he doesn't accomplish one of those. Better than the rest.

hedgefund10

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #129 on: March 17, 2016, 07:09:22 PM »
Bernie will raise my taxes by a ridiculous amount.

Hillary will raise my taxes not as much as Bernie. Also her husband sold out the middle class when he signed NAFTA. Hillary was gonna sell them out again with TPP until she flip-flopped.

Cruz is too far right. Not electable in the current welfare state.

So I support Trump. Will close the borders and stop the flood of illegal immigrants. Will force company's to raise wages and employ Americans. Will stop all these countries from screwing us with trade deals. Will make America a more competitive place for business i.e lower the corporate tax rate.

If you think Trump can or will do any of thse things, I have a bridge to sell you.

Illegal immigration has been going down since 2005 -- while the militarized Border Patrol has quadrupled their budget.  Just how much more do we want to spend on the diminishing returns - nevermind the rouge killings of unarmed Mexicans by Border Patrol. 

Plus - just who do you think is going to pick fruit and vegetables, mow lawns, bus and server customers?  Here in WA, the fruit growers say they always try to hire citizens but they last maybe a day or two in the orchards before quitting.  Some type of worker program is needed.   Trump - a spoiled rich brat who inherited his money,  someone born on third base and thinks he hit a triple.   Plus dumb as a stump.

How much do we want to spend on diminishing returns? I would rather spend on that than pre-K a.k.a. "baby-sitting" for all. Would also rather spend on this than free tuition for all the spoiled millennials.

Hmm what do those fruit growers pay? Maybe if they paid something above $8 an hour they could get somebody to do it.  If you think trump is dumb as a stump, I would love to here what you think of Bernie's lack of understanding of basic economics.

Kris

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #130 on: March 17, 2016, 07:23:02 PM »
Bernie will raise my taxes by a ridiculous amount.

Hillary will raise my taxes not as much as Bernie. Also her husband sold out the middle class when he signed NAFTA. Hillary was gonna sell them out again with TPP until she flip-flopped.

Cruz is too far right. Not electable in the current welfare state.

So I support Trump. Will close the borders and stop the flood of illegal immigrants. Will force company's to raise wages and employ Americans. Will stop all these countries from screwing us with trade deals. Will make America a more competitive place for business i.e lower the corporate tax rate.

If you think Trump can or will do any of thse things, I have a bridge to sell you.

I think he will. Even if he doesn't accomplish one of those. Better than the rest.

Just how, practically speaking, will he accomplish even one of these things? Can you provide a link to any reasonable explanation from Trump or his campaign that could actually work?

I would lime to see any evidence at all that he will have the power or the authority to do any of this.

kathrynd

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #131 on: March 17, 2016, 07:28:09 PM »
As a Canadian, I find this election very mesmerizing.My husband and I watch it a lot on CNN.

Trump hopefully will win.

So refreshing to see someone who isn't politically correct.
He says what many people think.

He is a successful business man.
Sure, he borrowed a bit of money of money..and he turned it into a LOT of money.
Imagine what he could do with the country.

I have always said...a businessman would never be able to run his company, as a government did, ..they'd be bankrupt.

Trump if given the chance, will bring back manufacturing.
Maybe there is a section of the population, that don't want to give up the gravy train of welfare., and actually  get a job.





hedgefund10

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #132 on: March 17, 2016, 07:57:14 PM »
Bernie will raise my taxes by a ridiculous amount.

Hillary will raise my taxes not as much as Bernie. Also her husband sold out the middle class when he signed NAFTA. Hillary was gonna sell them out again with TPP until she flip-flopped.

Cruz is too far right. Not electable in the current welfare state.

So I support Trump. Will close the borders and stop the flood of illegal immigrants. Will force company's to raise wages and employ Americans. Will stop all these countries from screwing us with trade deals. Will make America a more competitive place for business i.e lower the corporate tax rate.

If you think Trump can or will do any of thse things, I have a bridge to sell you.

I think he will. Even if he doesn't accomplish one of those. Better than the rest.

Just how, practically speaking, will he accomplish even one of these things? Can you provide a link to any reasonable explanation from Trump or his campaign that could actually work?

I would lime to see any evidence at all that he will have the power or the authority to do any of this.

1) Will close the borders and stop the flood of illegal immigrants.
-Not hard. Increase border patrol. If you are caught as an illegal immigrant. You and your family are gone, NO QUESTIONS asked. If you are caught again, let's just say you won't be coming back a third time.

2) Will stop these other countries from screwing us on trade deals.
- Because I'm sure we agreed to let China dump their cheap steel in our country. Why should we be for free trade when other countries don't want to play by those rules and subsidize their industries.

3) Make America a better place for business.
-Again not hard, lower the corporate tax rate to 15% and allow of the repatriation of cash held overseas. Money would flood back to the United States. Why do you think Pfizer did an inversion with Allergan? Simple it was for the tax savings.

Cressida

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #133 on: March 17, 2016, 08:06:26 PM »
My take on the candidates: 
Clinton: No. Just no. Not that again. Dishonest, I don't think she is actually all that great anyways--her track record is, IMHO, pretty piss-poor.
Bernie: Sane, honest, but cannot do math (IMHO).

Clinton and Bernie are crazy honest compared to the other candidates. Well the bar is pretty low.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-gop-presidential-candidates/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-democratic-presidential-candida/

For real. "Clinton is a liar" is just a trope. I challenge anyone to post real proof that Clinton has told lies. And I'm not talking about typical politician avoiding-saying-things-that-aren't-politically-safe. I mean an actual lie.

As for "her track record," she was one of the most liberal Senators during her time there, if that's what you think makes for a good record.

Click on above link and click on the following sections, and see listing of lies.

Pants on fire
False
Mostly False
Half True

Saying something that contains elements of untruth is not the same as lying. Even saying something that's completely false is not the same as lying.

Anyway, those links show that Clinton says fewer things that are untrue than any of the Republicans. So even if untruths were all total lies, she'd still be less of a liar than all of the people than whom she's supposed to be such a bigger liar.

You have not convinced me.

Cressida

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #134 on: March 17, 2016, 08:08:19 PM »
My take on the candidates: 
Clinton: No. Just no. Not that again. Dishonest, I don't think she is actually all that great anyways--her track record is, IMHO, pretty piss-poor.
Bernie: Sane, honest, but cannot do math (IMHO).

Clinton and Bernie are crazy honest compared to the other candidates. Well the bar is pretty low.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-gop-presidential-candidates/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-democratic-presidential-candida/

For real. "Clinton is a liar" is just a trope. I challenge anyone to post real proof that Clinton has told lies. And I'm not talking about typical politician avoiding-saying-things-that-aren't-politically-safe. I mean an actual lie.

As for "her track record," she was one of the most liberal Senators during her time there, if that's what you think makes for a good record.

This is tough, because like it or not I have to link Hillary to Bill, and the former president Clinton was a very dishonest person. Which leaves me with only so many conclusions about Hillary. Either she is delusional about her husband. She is so hell-bent on getting to the presidency that she sticks with him for political gain. Or, she is/was OK with the general dishonesty that permeated his administration both as governor and president.

Remember, Bill Clinton had his law license suspended, was involved in multiple sexual harassment lawsuits, and was accused of numerous other nefarious stuff ranging from taking Chinese political donations in return for a more favorable trade status to pardoning his good friend of real estate fraud(which he was also accused of but never indicted).

We're going to have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's fair to blame Hillary for anything her husband did, or for not divorcing him.

Cressida

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #135 on: March 17, 2016, 08:10:52 PM »
I've voted Democrat in the past but am crossing over.  I sure as hell hope Kasick somehow pulls this out.  Only Republican out there who acknowledges human role in climate change.  A bit too harsh on the abortion issue, but that's his only trait that bothers me, and compared to the others he is superior.

Trump:  Too racist.  Which is too bad because I might have supported him otherwise. 
Clinton:  Too made it up.  SNL had it right "you are really going to love the Hillary Clinton we've put together for you".  She wants it too much, and I find that disturbing. 
Sanders:  Only has one tool.  His solution to everything is government programs and to raise taxes. 
Cruz:  Too conservative to me.  Seems like a slimy POS to me.

In the end, the President has to be all Americans' President.  I think this "winner takes all, if we don't get what we want we'll take our toys and go" mentality we have in this country is the biggest threat to our future.  I want someone who can lead us to solutions and just be a moderate.  Kasich seems closest.

What makes you think she wants it too much? Because she ran for president twice? Lots and lots of people have done that; did you find them "disturbing"? Or are you somehow a mind-reader?

onlykelsey

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #136 on: March 17, 2016, 08:18:31 PM »
Quote
What makes you think she wants it too much? Because she ran for president twice? Lots and lots of people have done that; did you find them "disturbing"? Or are you somehow a mind-reader?

I was confused by this, too.  Quite honestly, all politicians have to be a bit power-hungry and creepily focused, it's a brutal job and campaigning tears you apart.  Campaigning for 18 mos like our presidential system requires especially so.  I think they probably all have some screw a bit loose, but I don't see why it's more disturbing for her.  Romney, Bush, McCain, Paul have all run multiple times.  It's sort of par for the course.

sol

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #137 on: March 17, 2016, 08:24:17 PM »
He is a successful business man.

He's declared bankruptcy four times.  You call that successful?  When you're in charge of the American economy, you don't get to declare bankruptcy even once. 

Quote
Trump if given the chance, will bring back manufacturing.

I know he says he'll do that, but I've yet to see any specific proposals about how he would go about doing so. Kind of like his proposals on immigration, healthcare, foreign relations, or anything else.  Lots of "I'm a winner" talk and very little detail to back it up.  His whole candidacy is a smokescreen.

Kris

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #138 on: March 17, 2016, 08:31:04 PM »
He is a successful business man.

He's declared bankruptcy four times.  You call that successful?  When you're in charge of the American economy, you don't get to declare bankruptcy even once. 

Quote
Trump if given the chance, will bring back manufacturing.

I know he says he'll do that, but I've yet to see any specific proposals about how he would go about doing so. Kind of like his proposals on immigration, healthcare, foreign relations, or anything else.  Lots of "I'm a winner" talk and very little detail to back it up.  His whole candidacy is a smokescreen.

Seriously. He is a freaking joke. He has literally no policies.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #139 on: March 17, 2016, 08:33:08 PM »
Quote
What makes you think she wants it too much? Because she ran for president twice? Lots and lots of people have done that; did you find them "disturbing"? Or are you somehow a mind-reader?

I was confused by this, too.  Quite honestly, all politicians have to be a bit power-hungry and creepily focused, it's a brutal job and campaigning tears you apart.  Campaigning for 18 mos like our presidential system requires especially so.  I think they probably all have some screw a bit loose, but I don't see why it's more disturbing for her.  Romney, Bush, McCain, Paul have all run multiple times.  It's sort of par for the course.

Hell, even Ronald Reagan didn't win the GOP presidential nomination till his second time running.  In 1976, he battled with Gerald Ford (and, obviously, lost).

hedgefund10

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #140 on: March 17, 2016, 08:52:50 PM »
He is a successful business man.

He's declared bankruptcy four times.  You call that successful?  When you're in charge of the American economy, you don't get to declare bankruptcy even once. 

Quote
Trump if given the chance, will bring back manufacturing.

I know he says he'll do that, but I've yet to see any specific proposals about how he would go about doing so. Kind of like his proposals on immigration, healthcare, foreign relations, or anything else.  Lots of "I'm a winner" talk and very little detail to back it up.  His whole candidacy is a smokescreen.


Yeah the American economy can't go bankrupt. How would we pay for all this free stuff if it did?

zephyr911

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #141 on: March 17, 2016, 08:54:22 PM »
Obama! One More Term!

ransom132

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #142 on: March 17, 2016, 09:25:50 PM »
As a Canadian, I find this election very mesmerizing.My husband and I watch it a lot on CNN.

Drumpf hopefully will win.

So refreshing to see someone who isn't politically correct.
He says what many people think.

He is a successful business man.
Sure, he borrowed a bit of money of money..and he turned it into a LOT of money.
Imagine what he could do with the country.

I have always said...a businessman would never be able to run his company, as a government did, ..they'd be bankrupt.

Drumpf if given the chance, will bring back manufacturing.
Maybe there is a section of the population, that don't want to give up the gravy train of welfare., and actually  get a job.
I don't even know if you are trolling or not. The guy says way too many things with nothing to back it up...How is he going to build that famous wall and make the Mexican pay??? Then he was going on at identifying all the Muslims living in the US with badges like Hitler did with the jews...let's not forget about the David Duke story (the KKK guy), he should of distanced himself from the beginning instead of pretending to not know him...which was a lie, because he talked about him back in 2000 (watch the John Oliver segment)...What is scary about him being president is no one knows what he will come up...will he start a war with the chinese??? The Mexicans??? There is so much question marks on his policies and unfortunately his answers are far from convincing. All he does is say whatever his public wants to hear, but I have yet to hear anything convincing on how he is going to carry them out.. And let's face it, he is a divider, nothing is worse than a president that creates division especially in a multi cultural country like the USA.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 09:27:22 PM by ransom132 »

Cranberries

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #143 on: March 17, 2016, 09:58:26 PM »
Sanders. If he loses I'm for Clinton by a landslide.

Trump terrifies me and so does Cruz. Fascism and religious fanaticism are both very frightening ideologies in a presidential candidate.

trashmanz

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #144 on: March 17, 2016, 10:16:13 PM »
I've voted Democrat in the past but am crossing over.  I sure as hell hope Kasick somehow pulls this out.  Only Republican out there who acknowledges human role in climate change.  A bit too harsh on the abortion issue, but that's his only trait that bothers me, and compared to the others he is superior.

Trump:  Too racist.  Which is too bad because I might have supported him otherwise. 
Clinton:  Too made it up.  SNL had it right "you are really going to love the Hillary Clinton we've put together for you".  She wants it too much, and I find that disturbing. 
Sanders:  Only has one tool.  His solution to everything is government programs and to raise taxes. 
Cruz:  Too conservative to me.  Seems like a slimy POS to me.

In the end, the President has to be all Americans' President.  I think this "winner takes all, if we don't get what we want we'll take our toys and go" mentality we have in this country is the biggest threat to our future.  I want someone who can lead us to solutions and just be a moderate.  Kasich seems closest.

What makes you think she wants it too much? Because she ran for president twice? Lots and lots of people have done that; did you find them "disturbing"? Or are you somehow a mind-reader?

People just don't like it when woman reach for powerful roles.  If she were a man there would be little to no discussion on her being "power hungry" 

onlykelsey

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #145 on: March 17, 2016, 10:18:10 PM »
Quote
People just don't like it when woman reach for powerful roles.  If she were a man there would be little to no discussion on her being "power hungry"

If only she would smile more.

Cressida

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #146 on: March 17, 2016, 10:31:57 PM »
Quote
People just don't like it when woman reach for powerful roles.  If she were a man there would be little to no discussion on her being "power hungry"

If only she would smile more.

I know right? Hillary Clinton never smiles.

pdxmonkey

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #147 on: March 18, 2016, 12:07:22 AM »

Plus - just who do you think is going to pick fruit and vegetables, mow lawns, bus and server customers?
New and improved robots. Higher minimum wage excites me as much for the fact that it will likely spur investment in robotics as much as people who still have jobs will be able to live on them. I'm hoping rather than a bunch of people ending up with 40 hour $15/hr minimum wage jobs and a bunch of people with 0 hour $15/hr minimum wage jobs replaced by robots that we end up with people working 20-25 hour $15/hr minimum wage jobs and choosing to live on less money ( the amount they make now).

2buttons

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #148 on: March 18, 2016, 05:16:35 AM »
Saying something that contains elements of untruth is not the same as lying. Even saying something that's completely false is not the same as lying.

Ummmm.....what?!?!?!?!

I guess it depends on what your definition of lying is, is?

Now I understand how you are so staunch in your support of HRC.

jrhampt

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Re: Who Does Everyone Here Support For President and Why?
« Reply #149 on: March 18, 2016, 06:11:36 AM »
Quote
People just don't like it when woman reach for powerful roles.  If she were a man there would be little to no discussion on her being "power hungry"

If only she would smile more.

I know right? Hillary Clinton never smiles.

Haha!!  Yeah, I've never really understood it when people criticize her for being too "ambitious".  Too ambitious for a woman?  Because you don't run for president if you're not ambitious.  Oddly, I haven't heard that criticism of Trump.  And this is his second run, too, if I recall.