Author Topic: Which martial art to study?  (Read 1611 times)

Hula Hoop

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Which martial art to study?
« on: December 22, 2022, 06:14:31 AM »
As a spin off to the recent 'dad with 2 daughters' thread, I'm thinking about taking up a martial art again as a hobby but also as potential self defense.  As I mentioned in the other thread, I'm a SA survivor so self-defense is always in the back of my mind.  Around 20 years ago I did a judo class briefly but I've forgotten everything.  Now I'm in my early 50s, reasonably in shape.  I do pilates regularly and walk several kms a day. 

What do others recommend as a martial art which also might be useful for self-defense (hopefully not but you never know)?  Our kids did kung fu at a place nearby and we're friends with the teacher so an adult course with him could be an option.  But I haven't investigated what else is available locally. Any suggestions?

Camarillo Brillo

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2022, 06:57:56 AM »
If your primary goal is self defense, then I suggest finding a class specifically on that.  They'll teach you situational awareness, avoidance, and escape.  I think you're a woman (?).  That sad reality is that at your age and gender you'll never have the physical tools to overpower a determined male. Good luck.

By the way, I have a background in martial arts and wrestling and have sparred, wrestled, and rolled with many woman, so I know what I'm talking about.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2022, 07:33:53 AM »
If your primary goal is self defense, then I suggest finding a class specifically on that.  They'll teach you situational awareness, avoidance, and escape.  I think you're a woman (?).  That sad reality is that at your age and gender you'll never have the physical tools to overpower a determined male. Good luck.

By the way, I have a background in martial arts and wrestling and have sparred, wrestled, and rolled with many woman, so I know what I'm talking about.

Yes I'm a woman.  Well that's depressing and also kind of triggering for me as a SA survivor. 

But yeah you're probably right.  I'll look around for that kind of class.  I kind of wanted to do a martial art as a hobby/sport though.  I love pilates (been doing it for 8 years) and was thinking of maybe taking up tai chi.  But then thought maybe a more practical martial art would be better as it could also teach me self defense.

The judo class I did many years ago was billed as a 'women's self defense class'.  The judo teacher was a large male though so it kind of made me feel that he didn't really know what he was talking about necessarily as he didn't need to deal with the same stuff that we do as women.  Maybe I'll look for a female teacher.

mizzourah2006

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2022, 07:53:25 AM »
IMO Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is the best martial art for self defense. The guard position itself is naturally defensive.

Metalcat

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2022, 08:03:55 AM »
DH did Krav Maga and loved it and it tends to be popular among women for self defense.

PP is right that a larger determined male isn't likely to be taken down, but most self defense is designed for women to be able to startle or stun their attacker to give them a chance to flee.

However, any martial arts will help you stay safer include in general, even by virtue of learning how to fall properly.

So say someone were to shove you down and steal your purse or even a teen slams into you and knocks you down, you are less likely to fracture your fibula or sustain a concussion if you have any martial arts training.

Say you are caring for a loved one with dementia, you will have better reflexes to deflect their punches.

You may not be able to stop a giant, strong, determined violent man who has you cornered in an area you can't escape, but you can definitely build an enormous amount of reflexive, body protective skills that can come in handy in any range of scenarios that don't require you to actually "win" a fight with a stronger opponent.

Camarillo Brillo

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2022, 08:05:51 AM »
IMO Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is the best martial art for self defense. The guard position itself is naturally defensive.
Agreed.  OP, if you're looking for something fun, useful, and physically beneficial, jiu jitsu should be at the top of your list.  I did it for years and there were many women in the classes. 

GuitarStv

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2022, 08:07:28 AM »
I would be very careful about going to a self defense class or workshop . . . simply because I've seen an awful lot of these 'self-defense' classes that teach nothing of value.  Often they teach techniques that aren't actually effective, they tend to gloss over important details, they rarely have people practicing against full/hard resistance, and they tend to be things that people do for a couple days and then never really think about again.  All of this works against you in a self defense situation.  To be able to use a martial art for self defense, you need to know the techniques well enough that they are automatic and second nature, to have experience using the techniques against an opponent who is resisting pretty hard, and to be in good enough physical shape to perform the technique with appropriate speed/power.  Learning a simple technique really, really well is almost always better than learning a complicated technique OK . . . because under stress you will lose a lot of your ability to think as adrenalin dumps into your body.  It's rare that I've seen 'self defense' classes that teach in ways that seem conducive to any of this.


I have tried out a lot of different martial arts over the past three decades . . . Aikido, Kosen Judo, Wrestling, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, Thai Boxing, boxing, Taekwondo (WTF), Savate, and Wing Chun.  All of them were fun and they each have cool things that they teach you.

For self-defense, I'd say that Judo, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Wrestling, Boxing, and Muay Thai were the most clearly effective.  You regularly will find yourself using the techniques that you learn against someone who is fighting back hard.  Boxing, Wrestling, and Thai Boxing had the most physically demanding workouts.  I found that Judo, Wrestling, and BJJ were more effective against bigger guys.  With BJJ in particular I found many techniques that let me control someone who outweighed me by seventy or eighty pounds on the ground . . . with boxing and thai boxing a much bigger guy going hard was always scary to spar against.  It's too easy to get rocked by a punch and find yourself in trouble.  What boxing taught me though was how to attack aggressively to keep an opponent off-balance, and to get past the fear/panic when you've been hit and are in pain.

That's some general advice regarding different styles, but all of the above advice has to come with a gigantic asterisk.  Everything is instructor and gym dependent.  There are judo and BJJ gyms that mostly train for competition which will be far inferior for self defense to gyms where the instructor occasionally focuses on more real-world type.  There are Thai boxing places where you never spar . . . and thus never learn to apply the techniques learned.  There are fitness boxing gyms where you're doing more aerobics than marital art.  You really need to sit in for a few classes, talk with the instructor and see if a gym is a match for what you want.  But if you can't find a place that's heavily oriented towards self-defense don't despair - it's possible for you (as a determined student) to always run the stuff you're learning through a 'could I do this in a dark alley' filter and focus on the stuff that seems most effective to you.



I do believe that a martial art can help with self defense, but it's definitely not going to be a magic bullet.  A really, really well trained 50 year old 100 lb woman is still going to be at a serious disadvantage to a 200lb 20 year old guy.  What the martial art should do is give you a fighting chance to create enough of an opening to run the fuck away, and some hope of getting out of a bad situation if you get stuck in one.  There's a reason you start every martial arts class by running - it's the single most effective method of self defense.  :P
« Last Edit: December 22, 2022, 08:11:19 AM by GuitarStv »

economista

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2022, 08:29:30 AM »
I would also say BJJ or Judo. I'm biased because I've been doing and coaching judo for 21 years so out of those 2 I pick judo. It's true that there are some places that are more focused on self defense and others that are more focused on sport. I personally like the sport focused clubs more because I always felt awkward and weird trying to do the self defense type stuff, whereas I felt more empowered being part of a team and getting a good workout. I love that as 125 lb woman I can pick up and throw my 200 lb husband with ease. I had a drunk boyfriend assault me when I was in college and years of confidence from judo helped me keep a calm head and get out of the situation.

My judo club has 7 instructors (and tons of black belts that aren't official instructors) and 5 of those 7 are women. It's also worth noting that we have had some women start in their late 40s and early 50s! One of them is a very good friend! I know a lot of older people get scared when considering judo because of the falling aspect, but I think the falling stuff is super important!

Metalcat

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2022, 09:04:57 AM »
@GuitarStv is spot on that all of this is so gym/instructor dependent.

weebs

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2022, 09:51:41 AM »
@GuitarStv nailed it, but I'll add my 0.02 as someone who has practiced a handful of different martial arts since a young age.  Echoing what others have said - BJJ, krav maga and judo would be good options.  Try to find a gym in which you will spar.  To quote Mike Tyson - "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."  Situation awareness is your first priority and using the skills you learn should be viewed as a last resort.  That being said, knowing how you're going to react to the emotional and physical impact (pun intended) of being hit is critical.  Regardless of which route you choose,  have fun with it and be prepared to make new friends.  I hung up my gi & hakama a while back now and I genuinely miss it.

Have you considered taking lessons to become proficient with a handgun?  This is not macho chest-thumping. Some of the best instructors I've met are women and I wouldn't want to be on their bad side, especially if I was in range.  :-)

GuitarStv

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2022, 11:31:29 AM »
"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

...knowing how you're going to react to the emotional and physical impact (pun intended) of being hit is critical.

People massively underestimate the role of emotion in a fight.

Never been sexually assaulted, but I was bullied in school pretty badly.  Broken nose a couple times, broken fingers, concussion, choked unconscious, etc.  The first time that I did some hard sparring in boxing I felt fine and was doing OK . . . moving, blocking, using the combinations that I knew, relaxed.  And then I moved the wrong way and took a cross full on the nose.  Literally everything in my head disappeared except memories of being on the ground and having a ring of kids kicking the shit out of me.  I wasn't loopy or seeing stars . . . but I completely panicked.  Just hammering in my chest, the taste of blood in my mouth, and I completely froze with my hands over my head crying and bleeding.  From one punch.

I eventually learned to deal with being punched in the face without spazzing out.  It was by far the most difficult thing I've done in martial arts.  Also probably the most beneficial thing I've learned as far as personal growth and coming to terms with fear.

If you're serious about self defense and have a past history of someone else hurting you, I suspect that there's something that will trigger this sort of avalanche of emotions for you.  Figuring out exactly what it is and how to deal with it is really important if you want to defend yourself.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2022, 11:33:24 AM by GuitarStv »

RetiredAt63

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2022, 11:33:48 AM »

Have you considered taking lessons to become proficient with a handgun?  This is not macho chest-thumping. Some of the best instructors I've met are women and I wouldn't want to be on their bad side, especially if I was in range.  :-)

Hula Hoop is in Italy.  Not sure how restrictive they are.  Plus being a good shooter means practice, like any martial art. 

Of course any martial art will be useless if, after temporarily disabling/evading your attacker, you don't have the physical fitness to run away.

Hmm, another thing to bring up for discussion - yelling.  When I was a Scout Leader we were trained to encourage the Cubs to yell at the top of their lungs as they assembled at a run.  Most people can't run and scream at the same time.  Very helpful to be able to scream fire or murder or help as you are running.  (Especially for kids).  Not sure what would be best words to yell, either.  Any LEOs with suggestions?

TomTX

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2022, 11:51:21 AM »
As others have noted, BJJ, Krav Maga and Judo are likely the prime choices.

However, just to re-emphasize: The individual training facility matters more than the style. You need someplace focused on actual combat/self-defense. Somewhere you can (safely, with appropriate gear) - really practice techniques at full (or nearly full) power.

Chris Pascale

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2022, 07:23:58 PM »
My older girls did wrestling and we fought with closed fists, kicking and take downs at home.

My younger girls tried wrestling but weren't crazy about it. Then we tried ju jitsu. The youngest didn't like ju jitsu at all, so is only boxing, and daughter number 3 said, I don't know how to block or strike, and if someone hits me I'm not going to be able to put them in a hold because it'll hurt too much, so does boxing 1 day and ju jitsu the other (same dojo has both).

tacticalteam4

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2022, 07:49:31 PM »
Brazilian jiu jitsu

Pros: You get comfortable with physical contact. Excellent workout. Most
gyms have a strong sense of community. Developed
and popularized by a Brazilian family to use leverage allowing a small person to defeat a larger person.

Cons: not easy on the body. I’ve had knee surgeries on both knees that have resulted in arthritis in my early 30s. Have had skin infections, cauliflower ear, and more often than not my neck or back is in pain. Many injuries can be avoided, most of mine are just from being a young, competitive, knucklehead.

There is a 57 yo female at my current gym who is one of my heroes. She’s intermediate level skill wise, and has far more heart and drive than I do. There are quite a few middle aged women at our gym.

Another data point is my dad who just started within the last couple years and got a blue belt at the age of 62!

If you do give Bjj a try, just know the hardest class is the first one. Just getting in the front door is extremely uncomfortable for most. You won’t have any idea what’s going on for at least 6 months. I’d recommend only “sparring” aka “rolling”  with upper belts for some time to reduce likelihood of you being injured by someone who doesn’t yet know what they’re doing.

tacticalteam4

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2022, 04:30:12 PM »
Brazilian jiu jitsu

Pros: You get comfortable with physical contact. Excellent workout. Most
gyms have a strong sense of community. Developed
and popularized by a Brazilian family to use leverage allowing a small person to defeat a larger person.

Cons: not easy on the body. I’ve had knee surgeries on both knees that have resulted in arthritis in my early 30s. Have had skin infections, cauliflower ear, and more often than not my neck or back is in pain. Many injuries can be avoided, most of mine are just from being a young, competitive, knucklehead.

There is a 57 yo female at my current gym who is one of my heroes. She’s intermediate level skill wise, and has far more heart and drive than I do. There are quite a few middle aged women at our gym.

Another data point is my dad who just started within the last couple years and got a blue belt at the age of 62!

If you do give Bjj a try, just know the hardest class is the first one. Just getting in the front door is extremely uncomfortable for most. You won’t have any idea what’s going on for at least 6 months. I’d recommend only “sparring” aka “rolling”  with upper belts for some time to reduce likelihood of you being injured by someone who doesn’t yet know what they’re doing.

And most importantly:

Read the Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker

Zhiantara

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2022, 04:30:10 AM »
I took up kickboxing this year at the age of 36, and it’s been hard, but worth it. The class is roughly 45min workout then 45min of training. The Dojo I go to also does karate, BJJ, box-fit, women’s self defence and yoga. Here are my thoughts:

- karate is harder than kickboxing
- BJJ is intense. It’s all rolling around on the floor with arms and legs wrapped around each other (I’ve observed the class, and I wouldn’t cope with having someone all up in my personal space like that)
- the self defence class are a close and supportive group who have developed real friendships
- it’s pretty normal to move between different martial arts as skills/interests change
- find a class that says it’s suitable for beginners
- find a dojo that lets you observe and do trial classes before signing up
- if, at the first class they don’t say ‘just do what you can, don’t try to keep up or push yourself too hard’ then walk the other way
- consider how encouraging the class are to each other (my class are really encouraging and supportive, but I’d switch to karate in a heartbeat if they became critical of each other)
- even if you find somewhere where you’re comfortable there will still probably be a decent helping of toxic masculinity amongst the trainers (my line in the sand is whether it is ever directed at participants of either gender, and so far it hasn’t been, so I stay)

Hope you find something that you enjoy!

dang1

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2022, 10:13:10 PM »
non-verbal no contact judo and verbal judo

Hula Hoop

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2022, 03:01:26 AM »

Have you considered taking lessons to become proficient with a handgun?  This is not macho chest-thumping. Some of the best instructors I've met are women and I wouldn't want to be on their bad side, especially if I was in range.  :-)

Hula Hoop is in Italy.  Not sure how restrictive they are.  Plus being a good shooter means practice, like any martial art. 

Of course any martial art will be useless if, after temporarily disabling/evading your attacker, you don't have the physical fitness to run away.

Hmm, another thing to bring up for discussion - yelling.  When I was a Scout Leader we were trained to encourage the Cubs to yell at the top of their lungs as they assembled at a run.  Most people can't run and scream at the same time.  Very helpful to be able to scream fire or murder or help as you are running.  (Especially for kids).  Not sure what would be best words to yell, either.  Any LEOs with suggestions?

As @RetiredAt63 points out I'm in Italy which is not awash with guns like the US.  Also, as a SA survivor I would not be comfortable with carrying a gun in self defense, even if it were legal here.  Not to go into too much detail but if I'd tried to pull a gun in the SA situation I was in, I'd probably be dead right now, even if I'd had training.  The number of gun deaths in the US compared to say, Italy, where I live and where there are very few guns backs this up.

I agree about the screaming.  When I was assaulted, I was unable to move or scream.  I became like a scared immobilized rabbit.  This was 25 years ago and I still remember the feeling.  This is why it makes me so angry when people say "why didn't she scream?" Our bodies often don't allow us to scream or even move.  So this is why I did the self defense course all those years ago but my (large male) instructor seemed not to understand that getting over the instinctual human response of freezing up in fear is the most important thing to learn. 

I've kind of moved on and healed from the experience all those years ago but I was just thinking I'd like to do a martial art as a sport now that I'm in my 50s and it would be good also to do one which could potentially be useful if I were ever in a scary situation.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2022, 03:03:33 AM by Hula Hoop »

slappy

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2022, 08:41:11 AM »
I train BJJ and I love it. I am (38F) However, I am not a SA survivor. I have read in Facebook groups/Instagram people I follow, that BJJ can be a bit triggering for SA survivors. Which makes to me, since it often involves having larger people on top of you and being unable to escape. (Again, I say that with no SA history, so I apologize if it's offensive in some way.) I would maybe read a little into that before you start, just so you are prepared. One person I follow on insta is Body by Boss/Natalie Boss. She talks a lot about overcoming trauma and BJJ.

FlytilFIRE

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Re: Which martial art to study?
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2022, 02:38:28 PM »
As a former certified fencing coach, and somewhat successful competitor, I'll throw fencing into the mix.

BUT, it really doesn't matter WHICH martial art one pursues, when speaking of self defense. I could say that a decent fencer could use a stick, broom, or other long pointy like implement to defend against an attack, and not let the bad guy get within striking distance, but even that is irrelevant.

The easiest way to defend yourself is to not be a target. How to do that? First, take the damned ear buds out of your head, and LISTEN. Cars and bad guys both tend to make a noise before they hurt you. Second, every martial art requires discipline and awareness of one's surroundings. Keep your eyes moving. Look out for shadows and alleyways where danger may be hidden. Look people in the eye- even the scary ones. I used to walk the streets of Nairobi in the middle of the night. Wouldn't do that now, but I ALWAYS stayed where the light was (and where I knew private guards were posted).Third, NEVER flash bling or expensive items if at all possible. Save the expensive stuff for places to which you are driving, preferably with a group.

Lastly, any martial art should increase self confidence. A confident, aware individual is most often allowed to pass, because the bad guys know an easier target will be along shortly.

I know this is all common sense that everyone has heard before, but it bears repeating. It's appalling how many people are being hurt and killed in our cities these days.