Which Income Class Are You

[Sanitary Stache]

There was some excellent discussions on a post today that referenced the decline of the middle class.  I was inspired to get a sense of what the middle class actually is and if I was part of it.

Turns out, I am not.

I read this article (most of it) https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0912/which-income-class-are-you.aspx  I thought it read like an extremely well done high school essay.  I would definitely hire this high school student - they obviously write much better than I do.  But I also liked how all their references were the tabs that I had open already from my initial search of "how to define the middle class".  This made me think that, with enough effort, I too could write such a well organized article.

I followed on of the links to this calculator (I love online calculators) from PEW https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/07/23/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/  (I wouldn't be surprised if the Investopedia article is used as a writing sample for a job application to PEW.)

I found that my household is in the Lower economic class, short by about $10,000 of yearly income.  Though, I could probably adjust this based on some of the non-monetary factors the Investopedia article talks about, like cultural and social capital. Well, social capital anyway. But I suspect I would never get away from the fact that my family of 5 doesn't bring in quite enough income to call ourselves part of the middle economic class.

This is interesting to me.

Somewhat less interesting to me, but also thought provoking, is the theme of the final half of the Investopedia article (none of the references in this section were anything I had already read).  The idea here, I think, is trying to reframe the evil rich bastards in society as everyone in the top 80% of incomes, rather than the more commonly hated 1%.  I am on board, not with the hate, but with questioning where the middle economic class ends and what the responsibility of those in the higher class is to stop fucking over the rest of us.

Similar to taxes, I expect my opinion on this topic would be different if I was in the higher economic class rather than the lower one.

[Omy]

I'm fat FIREd...with income in the lower class range.

[mizzourah2006]

Looks like it's based on # in your HH and where you live.

Looks like we are in the upper for our area, but just 5 years ago we were in the middle and 10 years ago we were in the lower, lol. So, we've been in all 3 in 10 years.

[HPstache]

According to the calculator I am in the middle tier along with 58% in the Bellingham Metropolitan area.

[joemandadman189]

Interesting link to the Pew Research stuff - we are upper class there

https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/

above is another i have seen float around with different results, i think the pew one, having a tilt to your geographic area, may be better as you can see how you compare to others in your city/area

[SwordGuy]

The Pew study is fundamentally flawed because it focuses on income and not wealth.   That's a common misunderstanding, by the way, and much to the advantage of the wealthy.

According to the Pew study, we're middle class for our area.

Nationally, based on the 2019 data used at https://personalfinancedata.com/networth-percentile-calculator/, we're in the top 4% of American households based on wealth.  Our net worth is almost 9 times that of the wealth the 75th percentile has.  That's a far cry from "middle class". 

Our income falls into upper middle class levels because that's what we choose it to be.   

We own our home, four rental homes, two newish cars, half of one farm, a third of another farm, half of a trucking company startup -- all free and clear -- and $1.6M in cash, stocks and bonds.    We have fully equipped woodshop, pottery studio, jewelry studio, and 3D printing studio.  We have a huge library on a host of topics that interest us.    Pretty much anything we want we either already have or get when we want it.   We live in a custom, architect-designed home with custom grounds. 

And because we have no debt we live a much fancier lifestyle than others at the same income level.

Much as I "feel" middle class, we're not middle class anymore.

[bmjohnson35]

We are presently in the lower income tier.  Income is one measurement, but far from the whole picture.  Even if you don't have a high net worth, being debt free vs. highly in debt makes a HUGE difference when it comes to utilizing the same amount of income.   

[wageslave23]

This shows me how easy it is to be in the "upper class". I'm an accountant and my wife is a nurse who works part-time.  The American ladder isn't broken, all it takes to be upper class is a little effort and discipline.

[SunnyDays]

I'm in Canada, so I looked at the closed US states.  When I was working, I was middle income.  Now that I'm retired, I'm lower income.  But my net worth is higher now than before.

[use2betrix]

I’m considered upper class (29%) in one of the largest US cities. Married, single income, infant child.

I dunno, something I already knew. Considering my age (33) and net worth (over $1MM) i’m well off.

That aside, while my income (around $350K) and net worth are impressive, the sacrifices made to get here and stress/hrs of my job on a regular basis are very, very taxing…

[Sanitary Stache]

I was talking to DW about this tonight.

We felt a sense of pride that our income put us in the lower class tier. But out net worth is in the 69th percentile in the calculator Sword Guy linked. Which i can’t tell if that is middle or upper because I didn’t read enough of that page to understand where the tiers change. I’ll think middle.

 that calculator only looks at age and not at family size or location. I suppose we would be even higher in the percentiles of net worth if the number of children and location were considered in the net worth comparison, but I could be surprised. .

I’d love to see a calculation that incorporates net worth and income and location. .

[mr.mac]

Based on the Pew calculator, I'd be in the upper income of a very large metro area.  Graduate school has already paid itself off.

However, income is only one piece of the picture, working to build up the others.

[mizzourah2006]

Does that NW calculator not count equity in your home? I just can't believe we're in the top 2.5% for our age group (35-40) at 36 & 38. One of us never got a college degree and the other didn't get a job until 29, after finishing their PhD in psychology.

[Morning Glory]

Based on the Pew calculator, I'd be in the upper income of a very large metro area.  Graduate school has already paid itself off.

However, income is only one piece of the picture, working to build up the others.

Lol graduate school.  Luckily work paid for mine, because I only got a 1.05/hr raise for finishing. Glad it worked out a little better for you.

[SwordGuy]

Does that NW calculator not count equity in your home? I just can't believe we're in the top 2.5% for our age group (35-40) at 36 & 38.

It's a net worth calculator, so it does count home equity.   But a lot of people don't have any home equity or very much of it. If you start with 2.5% to 5% down, there's not a lot of equity unless the value goes up a lot.
Here's the instructions they give for the NW calculation:  https://personalfinancedata.com/how-to-calculate-your-net-worth/

One of us never got a college degree and the other didn't get a job until 29, after finishing their PhD in psychology.

Here's the 2019 data for American households on that site:

Median Net Worth : $121,760
Mean Net Worth : $746,392
Net Worth 25th Percentile: $12,410
Net Worth 75th Percentile : $404,100

That 25th percentile number is amazingly low.  But look at this:

Net Worth $0 Percentile : 10.8

That means the homeless wino living under the overpass, who owes nothing to nobody and doesn't own anything but the clothes they're wearing, has a higher net worth than 10.8% of the households in the USA.

[MudPuppy]

There’s a hell of a lot more to this than hard work and frankly I take exception to anyone who says otherwise.

Income is one thing, but the actual wealth picture is more telling. Not that we aren’t all tired of this reference, but ffs the BOOTS.

[Fomerly known as something]

I knew when I was 23 I was going to be middle upper to upper class eventually.  I was right.

[ixtap]

I knew when I was 23 I was going to be middle upper to upper class eventually.  I was right.

Upper middle wasn't even on my radar until after I was already there. That's what happens when you marry up, but they agree to live in the place you could afford without them.

[Jack0Life]

Plugged in numbers in my area.
- 2 years ago when I was making $120k. As a couple we are upper level along with 15% of the metro area.
- Right now at $60k I'm still middle class. As a couple we don't fall to "lower" class under we hit under $40k.
- As pertain to my group(Asian 45-64), I belong to the majority with 52%. Meaning most Asians in my age group are doing just as well. LOL.

[jnw]

I guess I am in the very low income class :)  But I'd wager I am more content and happier than most in the "upper class", who aren't FI.   I don't need expensive things to make me feel happy and don't have to worry about impressing people or what others think.

I say those who are FI are in the "upper class" and those who aren't are in the "lower class".

[mboley]

This shows me how easy it is to be in the "upper class". I'm an accountant and my wife is a nurse who works part-time.  The American ladder isn't broken, all it takes to be upper class is a little effort and discipline.

Easy? A little effort? You mean there are enough good paying jobs for everyone who works hard?  Opportunities are the exact same for everyone? Who knew!

If it were easy  tens of millions more people would be better off. Your comments make you sound pretty naive. Just saying, dont take offense.

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk

[use2betrix]

There’s a hell of a lot more to this than hard work and frankly I take exception to anyone who says otherwise.

Income is one thing, but the actual wealth picture is more telling. Not that we aren’t all tired of this reference, but ffs the BOOTS.

This shows me how easy it is to be in the "upper class". I'm an accountant and my wife is a nurse who works part-time.  The American ladder isn't broken, all it takes to be upper class is a little effort and discipline.

Easy? A little effort? You mean there are enough good paying jobs for everyone who works hard?  Opportunities are the exact same for everyone? Who knew!

If it were easy  tens of millions more people would be better off. Your comments make you sound pretty naive. Just saying, dont take offense.

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk

Hard work, sacrifice, and risk that most aren’t willing to take. I’m 33 and near the top 1% both income and net worth for my age. I graduated high school with a 2.7, got a 20 on my ACT, and got an associates degree at around 22/23. I’m no genius and I grew up lower middle class

I’ve lived in 8 states the last decade, and moved 20+ times or so. I’ve worked 50-70 hr weeks my whole career as a contractor, constantly moving states and up in my industry. I’ve sacrificed friendships, owning a home, etc.

If someone ask *me* how to be successful, the first thing I’d say is work out 5-7x/wk for an hr a day, get your diet in check, quit any bad habits, work 60+ hr weeks, every week, all year (maybe 2 weeks vacation, depending on the year) and be prepared to move cross country in short notice for better opportunities. Spend your commutes listening to several audiobooks a month on how to improve your weaknesses - as a leader, a speaker, a manager, managing stress, building good habits, etc.

Do that for 10-15 years.

The workouts, diet, habits, willingness to move, and work schedule are just the bare minimum. Those are my keys to a high income.

Is there more? Of course, but until you’ve actually done everything I’ve prescribed above, no one is going to convince me that hard work and sacrifice isn’t a HUGE part of it for some. Many will say they can’t or don’t want to do those things, which is fine, just don’t complain that someone has a higher income because for some (myself) that is what it takes.

Insinuating that its not very hard work (again, for myself) can be somewhat insulting..

[JoePublic3.14]

There’s a hell of a lot more to this than hard work and frankly I take exception to anyone who says otherwise.

Income is one thing, but the actual wealth picture is more telling. Not that we aren’t all tired of this reference, but ffs the BOOTS.

This shows me how easy it is to be in the "upper class". I'm an accountant and my wife is a nurse who works part-time.  The American ladder isn't broken, all it takes to be upper class is a little effort and discipline.

Easy? A little effort? You mean there are enough good paying jobs for everyone who works hard?  Opportunities are the exact same for everyone? Who knew!

If it were easy  tens of millions more people would be better off. Your comments make you sound pretty naive. Just saying, dont take offense.

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk

Hard work, sacrifice, and risk that most aren’t willing to take.

I might phrase it as hard, smart work. If someone is willing to understand what they need to do, then work hard in that direction, it would take some sort of bad break to prevent them from achieving some level of success, in my opinion. But I’ve seen so often people just not willing to understand what they need to do to get where they want. Or, not willing to put in the work to get there. And even worse to me, refuse to be accountable for it. I take exception to people who take a woe-is-me posture just because they 'overspent on a new car' ‘didn’t study for the exam' and so on.

[onecoolcat]

Upper but it certainly does not feel like it because I am priced out 3/2 homes in good school zones in my area.  96.1 percentile on wealth at my age per Swordguy's link.  Either people are buying WAAAAY to much house or I am too stubborn on what I am willing to pay for a house.

[Fomerly known as something]

I knew when I was 23 I was going to be middle upper to upper class eventually.  I was right.

Upper middle wasn't even on my radar until after I was already there. That's what happens when you marry up, but they agree to live in the place you could afford without them.

It was more that I entered a field that had a predictable pay scale during a career.  I did the math.

[jnw]

Upper but it certainly does not feel like it because I am priced out 3/2 homes in good school zones in my area.  96.1 percentile on wealth at my age per Swordguy's link.  Either people are buying WAAAAY to much house or I am too stubborn on what I am willing to pay for a house.

Is it rich investors pumping up the housing market like they did with the last bubble before 2009?

[MudPuppy]

Oh boy. The only thing I’m going to add to this is that these things are not as “easy” or accessible to all people. The playing field is not level.

[2Birds1Stone]

Upper income tier.......woohoo?

[jamster]

According the the calculators, my husband and I are upper income and our net worth is at the 96th percentile for 40 year olds.

We are just quietly building it up; I don't think our friends have any clue. We live in a 1-bedroom apartment in DC, don't own a car, etc.

I am always so curious to know how my friends here compare, especially the ones who are buying million dollar homes and fancy cars. Are the balance sheets beneath the shiny purchases a horror show, or is there real wealth undergirding them?

[Tempname23]

I pondered something like this a while back, but more in relation to networth and income. But I didn't think income for one year was relevant, I think it should be income over your accumulation period. So I found government inflation adjustment numbers and my yearly income (SS site) and did the multiplication then averaged those numbers. (Excel) I came up with $71k. This is actually higher than I thought it would be, Knowing we had $18k income in 1982 and under $30k for 7 years ending in 2000. With $71k average inflation adjusted income I think puts us in the solid middle class neighborhood.
   It took us 37 years but we made it to the top 95% in networth. Would be a bit higher but we spent $300k on a child's education.
 Here is the spread sheet, but I did this in 2018, so the inflation numbers will all need to be changed to be relevant to 2021. You put in, Income of yourself and spouse and from there it calculates the average inflation adjusted income. There is some other stuff I was trying to do, but never completed those functions.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SsaRfRx_DBF38MssIvYVP2WrAIwgNhPyZ8B7xaBqXfs/edit#gid=0

[Omy]

Oh boy. The only thing I’m going to add to this is that these things are not as “easy” or accessible to all people. The playing field is not level.

I agree that there are serious inequalities that need to be addressed to level the playing field. There are also people at all levels who defy the odds (in both directions).

I find it intriguing that my siblings and I started with a level playing field, and ended up at VERY different places. We chose very different paths, made very different choices, and ended up at very different levels of wealth

[ixtap]

Oh boy. The only thing I’m going to add to this is that these things are not as “easy” or accessible to all people. The playing field is not level.

I agree that there are serious inequalities that need to be addressed to level the playing field. There are also people at all levels who defy the odds (in both directions).

I find it intriguing that my siblings and I started with a level playing field, and ended up at VERY different places. We chose very different paths, made very different choices, and ended up at very different levels of wealth

Interestingly enough, my siblings chose sciences while I chose humanities. Bugged the heck out of my Dad that I didn't want to be an engineer. However, even when I was working on my PhD, I was more financially stable than they. Despite grad school and a short career, I have more than the average retiree in my retirement accounts. I was happily middle class, but saving well. On the other hand, my husband's mentor is more struggling upper class and pulled my husband along with him up the career ladder.

[American GenX]

I didn't bother with the OP, but based on past references, I'm upper middle class but dropping quickly due to real world skyrocketing inflation.

[TempusFugit]

Oh boy. The only thing I’m going to add to this is that these things are not as “easy” or accessible to all people. The playing field is not level.

I agree that there are serious inequalities that need to be addressed to level the playing field. There are also people at all levels who defy the odds (in both directions).

I find it intriguing that my siblings and I started with a level playing field, and ended up at VERY different places. We chose very different paths, made very different choices, and ended up at very different levels of wealth

While it is certainly true that the playing field is not level, the unfortunate reality is that for the most important parts, there isn't much that can be done.  I think if you included in these analyses factors such as who grew up in a two parent home or how many books are in the home you would find a remarkable correlation.  Small children who are not exposed to enough language at very young ages (well before preschool) will NEVER have the mental capacities that others will have. The window of opportunity closes by age 3-4 and they will be behind for the rest of their lives.  This affects not just academic IQ but also social IQ, which can drastically affect their career prospects.

[SwordGuy]

Oh boy. The only thing I’m going to add to this is that these things are not as “easy” or accessible to all people. The playing field is not level.

I agree that there are serious inequalities that need to be addressed to level the playing field. There are also people at all levels who defy the odds (in both directions).

I find it intriguing that my siblings and I started with a level playing field, and ended up at VERY different places. We chose very different paths, made very different choices, and ended up at very different levels of wealth

While it is certainly true that the playing field is not level, the unfortunate reality is that for the most important parts, there isn't much that can be done.  I think if you included in these analyses factors such as who grew up in a two parent home or how many books are in the home you would find a remarkable correlation.  Small children who are not exposed to enough language at very young ages (well before preschool) will NEVER have the mental capacities that others will have. The window of opportunity closes by age 3-4 and they will be behind for the rest of their lives.  This affects not just academic IQ but also social IQ, which can drastically affect their career prospects.

Require businesses to pay a decent living for all full time jobs and pro-rate part-time jobs.   Woo hoo!  Suddenly every person with a job can make ends meet and afford books for the kiddos.   Fund programs to get books into the homes of the unemployed so they can read to the kids.

Tax the billionaires and mega-millionaires and corporations.

Alter tariffs so that tariffs from other countries with similar or better labor and environmental enforced laws are low and those without are very high, in order to cripple the worldwide race to the bottom we have now.  The western Europeans would coorperate with us on this.

[American GenX]

Require businesses to pay a decent living for all full time jobs and pro-rate part-time jobs.   Woo hoo!  Suddenly every person with a job can make ends meet and afford books for the kiddos.

Except that just feeds into inflation and increases the cost of everything while the government can collect more taxes.  I think the onerous demands on business are bad enough as it is with the current minimum wage requirements, or with needing to pay more to people that don't want to work while they live off the government dole.

[JoePublic3.14]

Oh boy. The only thing I’m going to add to this is that these things are not as “easy” or accessible to all people. The playing field is not level.

I don’t get the point. Is it for those on the fortunate side of the field to not try because it is not fair to win? Or for those on the unfortunate side to not try because they will not win? Hopefully neither, since both or bullshit. Everyone should strive to reach the level of success they desire, and be accountable for their choices along the way.

[SwordGuy]

Require businesses to pay a decent living for all full time jobs and pro-rate part-time jobs.   Woo hoo!  Suddenly every person with a job can make ends meet and afford books for the kiddos.

Except that just feeds into inflation and increases the cost of everything while the government can collect more taxes.  I think the onerous demands on business are bad enough as it is with the current minimum wage requirements, or with needing to pay more to people that don't want to work while they live off the government dole.

Then drop CEO and manager and other highly paid people's wages to compensate for the extra costs.   Or pay lower dividends.   Or make lower profits.

No business that depends on its workers living in poverty deserves to exist -- ESPECIALLY if there's plenty of profits to hand to others who don't even work there.

Some types of businesses will fail because they are predicated on predatory labor treatment.   Good.    If people don't want to pay for the cost of goods that includes people not living in poverty to make them, then we are better off without those goods.

Other types of businesses will prosper.  And that's as it should be.

[poxpower]

I make upper, pay myself middle ( from stash ) and used to live below poverty line ( Canada ).

[MudPuppy]

Oh boy. The only thing I’m going to add to this is that these things are not as “easy” or accessible to all people. The playing field is not level.

I don’t get the point. Is it for those on the fortunate side of the field to not try because it is not fair to win? Or for those on the unfortunate side to not try because they will not win? Hopefully neither, since both or bullshit. Everyone should strive to reach the level of success they desire, and be accountable for their choices along the way.

Not sure what is unclear. The playing field is not level. Saying that someone “only” needs to do xyz to achieve a particular success is ignoring that not everyone has access to the same resources. You don’t get to look down on those who aren’t at the same level of success and say they didn’t try hard enough, etc. being poor isn’t a moral failing and being middle or upper class isn’t a virtue.

[ixtap]

Oh boy. The only thing I’m going to add to this is that these things are not as “easy” or accessible to all people. The playing field is not level.

I don’t get the point. Is it for those on the fortunate side of the field to not try because it is not fair to win? Or for those on the unfortunate side to not try because they will not win? Hopefully neither, since both or bullshit. Everyone should strive to reach the level of success they desire, and be accountable for their choices along the way.

Not sure what is unclear. The playing field is not level. Saying that someone “only” needs to do xyz to achieve a particular success is ignoring that not everyone has access to the same resources. You don’t get to look down on those who aren’t at the same level of success and say they didn’t try hard enough, etc. being poor isn’t a moral failing and being middle or upper class isn’t a virtue.

All you need to do is workout and work 60 hours a week. I dunno man, the landscapers around here are pretty buff and many work weekends for the over time. My BIL works pretty hard on those roofs, too.

[onecoolcat]

Upper but it certainly does not feel like it because I am priced out 3/2 homes in good school zones in my area.  96.1 percentile on wealth at my age per Swordguy's link.  Either people are buying WAAAAY to much house or I am too stubborn on what I am willing to pay for a house.

Is it rich investors pumping up the housing market like they did with the last bubble before 2009?

I don't know the cause but it is discouraging.  A 3/2 1700 sq.ft. home in a good school zone starts at $500k and has HOA fees.  A 3/2 or 4/2 with 2,000 sq.ft. is closer to $600k.  Meanwhile, the average household income in the same city (all of the schools are good) is $70,000.  The County as a whole has an average household income of under $60k. 

[JoePublic3.14]

Oh boy. The only thing I’m going to add to this is that these things are not as “easy” or accessible to all people. The playing field is not level.

I don’t get the point. Is it for those on the fortunate side of the field to not try because it is not fair to win? Or for those on the unfortunate side to not try because they will not win? Hopefully neither, since both or bullshit. Everyone should strive to reach the level of success they desire, and be accountable for their choices along the way.

Not sure what is unclear. The playing field is not level. Saying that someone “only” needs to do xyz to achieve a particular success is ignoring that not everyone has access to the same resources. You don’t get to look down on those who aren’t at the same level of success and say they didn’t try hard enough, etc. being poor isn’t a moral failing and being middle or upper class isn’t a virtue.

But in my response the xyz is qualitative and scaled to their resources. One should at least strive for the upper level they can. Then who knows, could get that lucky break and make it way past what you thought you could. Many parts of life are hard for a lot of people, so it goes. And there will always be people who use those hardships as an excuse.

And I do look down at the preventable poor, much like we facepunch folks here for poor choices.

[Arbitrage]

Upper but it certainly does not feel like it because I am priced out 3/2 homes in good school zones in my area.  96.1 percentile on wealth at my age per Swordguy's link.  Either people are buying WAAAAY to much house or I am too stubborn on what I am willing to pay for a house.

Is it rich investors pumping up the housing market like they did with the last bubble before 2009?

It may be a housing bubble, but it's certainly different than the last one.  During the last bubble, house prices and rents became wildly decoupled due to various factors.  This time around, rents are skyrocketing as well - if not in tandem, at least alongside price increases.  Note that house prices are not included (directly) in CPI, but rents are, and are a big contributor to the headline inflation numbers we're seeing.

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/14/1080145270/its-not-just-home-prices-rents-rise-sharply-across-the-u-s

[iris lily]

I'm fat FIREd...with income in the lower class range.

That is a sweet place to be. Before we kicked  in Social Security payouts, we were there. Low taxes. Nanny G. thinks we are poor because
Nanny only looks at income. She gives great ACA subsidies.

But now we are middle according to this chart of 10 states.,Right exactly in the middle

[Omy]

It is a lovely spot. Social Security and RMDs will shoot our income into upper class levels in a decade...but enjoying the perks for now.

[StarBright]

This shows me how easy it is to be in the "upper class". I'm an accountant and my wife is a nurse who works part-time.  The American ladder isn't broken, all it takes to be upper class is a little effort and discipline.

Funny - I came away with the thought that it is harder to break into the upper tier than I expected. 

So I was born middle class (my dad is a CPA, mom a teacher). I've done everything "right" (other than not becoming a software engineer or finance person): have worked since I was 13, valedictorian, college, grad school, etc.  Not to be snarky - but "great work ethic" and "disciplined" are words used to  describe me on the regular.

I'm still middle class.

If we didn't have kids we'd be closer to upper class though (per the calculator). That rings true for lifestyle as well.

Networth wise we are in the top 20% - but I honestly still feel like I'm hustlin' every day. I've been pulling a paycheck for 27 years this year.

[Virtus3]

We moved from middle to upper in the last year and are in the 94th percentile for net worth for our age range.

The net worth really shows me how much struggle there is as I would consider us below-average mustachians...

I'm firmly of the belief that hard work isn't all that's required. I grew up extremely privileged and while I would consider myself hard working and take a lot of pride in what I do I'm not naïve to the fact that luck/chance has played a huge role in where I am today.

[wageslave23]

This shows me how easy it is to be in the "upper class". I'm an accountant and my wife is a nurse who works part-time.  The American ladder isn't broken, all it takes to be upper class is a little effort and discipline.

Funny - I came away with the thought that it is harder to break into the upper tier than I expected. 

So I was born middle class (my dad is a CPA, mom a teacher). I've done everything "right" (other than not becoming a software engineer or finance person): have worked since I was 13, valedictorian, college, grad school, etc.  Not to be snarky - but "great work ethic" and "disciplined" are words used to  describe me on the regular.

I'm still middle class.

If we didn't have kids we'd be closer to upper class though (per the calculator). That rings true for lifestyle as well.

Networth wise we are in the top 20% - but I honestly still feel like I'm hustlin' every day. I've been pulling a paycheck for 27 years this year.

I guess the number of kids you have can change the equation but I don't think it should. Class should be determined by income per household.  What you choose to spend that income on should be irrelevant.  Whether it's vacations, children, movies, etc.

[Paper Chaser]

This shows me how easy it is to be in the "upper class". I'm an accountant and my wife is a nurse who works part-time.  The American ladder isn't broken, all it takes to be upper class is a little effort and discipline.

Funny - I came away with the thought that it is harder to break into the upper tier than I expected. 

So I was born middle class (my dad is a CPA, mom a teacher). I've done everything "right" (other than not becoming a software engineer or finance person): have worked since I was 13, valedictorian, college, grad school, etc.  Not to be snarky - but "great work ethic" and "disciplined" are words used to  describe me on the regular.

I'm still middle class.

If we didn't have kids we'd be closer to upper class though (per the calculator). That rings true for lifestyle as well.

Networth wise we are in the top 20% - but I honestly still feel like I'm hustlin' every day. I've been pulling a paycheck for 27 years this year.

I guess the number of kids you have can change the equation but I don't think it should. Class should be determined by income per household.  What you choose to spend that income on should be irrelevant.  Whether it's vacations, children, movies, etc.

Elon Musk had $0 of taxable income in 2020, so if we're only using incomes to determine this silly measuring then I'm way higher class than the wealthiest man on the planet! Take that Musk!