Where would you retire if you only had two years to save and invest?

[tmoneyearlyretiree]

I wrote up an article for my blog entitled "Five Places You Could Afford Retirement After Two Years of Working" and was wondering what places you all would suggest adding to the list. 

My list of five is Kiev, Ukraine, Panama City, Panama, Memphis, TN, Ulcinj, Montenegro, and Chiang Mai, Thailand.
Curious if anyone has thought of this kind of "worst case" scenario where you are so motivated and geographically indifferent that you retire after a couple years of working in a really low cost location. One of my buddies suggested South America, but I thought you all would provide some spots I hadn't thought of before.

If you're going to work two years and not live in a sketch neighborhood or RV most US locations are off the table admittedly.

[arebelspy]

The answer: Anywhere where the average COL is less than or equal to 4% of what you could save in two years, and you don't mind living like a local.

I'm sure there are lists online by googling of cheapest places to live.  I started typing cheapest cost and google autosuggested cheapest cost of living in the world, with lots of articles.

For me, for example, we saved maybe 30k and 45k our first two years of working (teachers, so only making about 50 then 70k combined, gross).

So 4% of 75k stache is 3000/yr, or 250/mo.

Most of the articles I found are aimed at expats who have significantly more than that, and many of the article are focused on the percent COL (apparently India costs 40% of what NY does).  And they often break it down by type (food, fuel, lodging, etc.)  Very few focus on what locals spend in absolute dollars, which doesn't help me.

I think you'd have an easier time looking up average wages of a place, and assume the locals spend less than heat average wage.

With that in mind:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage

Looking at the ILO stats, which is adjusted for purchasing power, my 250/mo. doesn't let me live anywhere, though it's really close to the bottom one, Pakistan, at $255/mo.

The UNECE data does give me one place to live, the bottom one on their charts: Tajikistan, at $247/mo.

 OMY sounds like a better plan. ;)

[tarheeldan]

Based on a similar idea, I have milestones set up in my Excel sheet when invested assets reach certain amounts - these milestones are when the stash generates at a 4% wr, 2x the average salary in cities I could potentially live in. If I only had 2 years, I'd have to go for 1x average salary.

City                    Stash
Kathmandu        $50k
Vientiane            $75k
Ho Chi Minh        $100k

I'd only be able to swing Kathmandu on my income and savings rate within 2 years lol.

[StetsTerhune]

I think much of the rural US falls into this category. Pretty much anywhere rural that isn't a vacation/2nd home destination has pretty similar cost of living to the destinations you listed, realistically. Certainly a very different option than Vientiane (which is a great town!), but it's an option.

[cawiau]

Haiti


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[StetsTerhune]

Also, Chiang Mai seems to have jumped the shark. I was there 6 years ago, and every time I see it on one of these lists, it becomes less likely that I'll ever go back. And it's just on this list because it was on someone else's list and tortoises all the way down.

There's something to be said for a place going off the ex-pat deep end in terms of infrastructure etc, but it also gets more expensive, more crowded, more touty, if that's a word. This is why (and I know this makes me a jerk), I'm not going to answer your question with any of my real answers. My real answers I'm keeping to myself.

[arebelspy]

I think much of the rural US falls into this category.

I think it'd be tough to live for $250/mo. anywhere in the US, unless you also took government handouts.

Also, Chiang Mai seems to have jumped the shark. I was there 6 years ago, and every time I see it on one of these lists, it becomes less likely that I'll ever go back. And it's just on this list because it was on someone else's list and tortoises all the way down.

Yeah, I'm worried about this. It is on everyone's list.  That being said, GCC went there now, and it's apparently still great, so IDK if it's fully jumped the shark yet.

Split, Croatia keeps seeming to be on everyone's list as well, and I was somewhat disappointed with it.

[StetsTerhune]

I think much of the rural US falls into this category.

I think it'd be tough to live for $250/mo. anywhere in the US, unless you also took government handouts.

Well let's get serious, it'd be tough to live anywhere on this list or anywhere else for $250/mo. Lots and lots and lots of people do it, but it's tough. I think this is a thought exercise and nothing more.

[iwasjustwondering]

With family.  I have no interest in moving away from extended family.  BTDT. 

[Cookie78]

I think much of the rural US falls into this category.

I think it'd be tough to live for $250/mo. anywhere in the US, unless you also took government handouts.

Also, Chiang Mai seems to have jumped the shark. I was there 6 years ago, and every time I see it on one of these lists, it becomes less likely that I'll ever go back. And it's just on this list because it was on someone else's list and tortoises all the way down.

Yeah, I'm worried about this. It is on everyone's list.  That being said, GCC went there now, and it's apparently still great, so IDK if it's fully jumped the shark yet.

Split, Croatia keeps seeming to be on everyone's list as well, and I was somewhat disappointed with it.

I didn't know Split was on people's list! I was also disappointed with it, but I loved all the little towns to the south. I didn't go north, but I'm sure I would have loved them too.

[big_slacker]

Easy for me. Family house in Poland. But as mentioned it would be 4 generations under one roof (till babcia dies) Then mom and dad who if they live as long as grandma another 20+ years. But the house  is paid and their retirement income + my stash + food from the garden/orchard would be fine financially and allow enough time for the kids to finish school and start working as well.

And that's how it has been done traditionally. But how many of US folks would like to live like that? i think if probably be ready to jump off a bridge in a year or so.

[tmoneyearlyretiree]

Based on a similar idea, I have milestones set up in my Excel sheet when invested assets reach certain amounts - these milestones are when the stash generates at a 4% wr, 2x the average salary in cities I could potentially live in. If I only had 2 years, I'd have to go for 1x average salary.

City                    Stash
Kathmandu        $50k
Vientiane            $75k
Ho Chi Minh        $100k

I'd only be able to swing Kathmandu on my income and savings rate within 2 years lol.

That sounds pretty badass to me, just expat livin at the foothills of the Himalayas. I was thinking of going to Croatia on my trip around Europe this summer. I was in Montenegro and it was going to be a $25 bus ride to get to Dubrovnik. Unfortunately, people were telling me that because of Game of Thrones they've been getting enormous numbers of tourists and now can charge $20+ to go walk around the fortress. I found the same opportunity to walk a fortress just a few hundred miles south on the Adriatic in Montenegro for free. I feel like a lot of these small to medium sized cities in the popular cheap places to live posts are where it's at.

[meadow lark]

I wish I could think of somewhere great.  I am, myself, beyond ready to retire.  Lots of places in NM are really cheap.  But not that cheap.  And, while I actually have no moral issues against taking gov't help, it would suck to never be able to go to Texas Roadhouse for the early bird specials.

[RootofGood]

I'd probably work a few more years then head to somewhere in Mexico.  Lots of decent places where $1000/mo would go very far.  If I had to pick one place, I'd say Mexico City but it's cheaper in most other non-beach/resort areas in Mexico. 

Oaxaca city was pretty cheap when we were there for 2 weeks this past summer.  Weather is pretty good year round (but gets hot for 1-2 months).  The place we rented was $21 USD/nt for a 3 BR house (well, 2 BR plus a casita with it's own bathroom/bedroom just a few feet from the main house) in a good neighborhood but I found other 1 BRs and studios furnished for closer to $8-10/USD per night.  Decent meals could be had for $2 USD (Chinese, local stuff from the market stalls, 1/4 of a BOGO pizza deal, an all you can eat Mexican place we found, etc). 

If you just wanted to chill, relax, and live pretty simple backpacker traveler style, you could probably get by on $500/mo, maybe $700/mo for a couple.  Could you save $150k in 2 years as a single person or $210k in 2 years as a married couple?  We came close in our later years of working. 

[iamlindoro]

Coincidentally, we play this same game pretty regularly at our house.  We've been on the mustachian path for about 3.5 years, but the first year and a half was devoted to paying off high interest debt and making major lifestyle changes.  We're about two years in to actual hardcore accumulation.  I've also written a couple of blog posts (about once every six months) with five places abroad where our current withdrawal rate would support a lifestyle that is comfortable for North Americans.  Even at $879/month as of the last article, there's a lot of wiggle room in the budget to live comfortably.

I've noticed that under $1000/month, your best options tend to be South America and Southeast Asia (though there are European options that work, your lifestyle will be much more modest).  Once you hit around the $1200-1500/month mark, a whole world of options opens up, literally!  Lots of places in Mexico, Europe, Asia, and the Caribbean are plausible at that point.  (Again, I'm talking about living a relatively lavish lifestyle for many of these places-- a subsistence-level lifestyle is possible on much less)

Here's our options as of this month:

http://frugalvagabond.com/2015/12/03/retire-abroad-december-2015-879/

Planning on looking at this again around July of next year, and that should be when it starts to get really interesting (hopefully around $1500 a month).  I think the two year mark is right around the tipping point where it becomes downhill, and as others have said, it seems like you make big long term quality of life gains in the year or two after that.  I think we're looking at a minimum of two more years, probably three more years, and no more than four more years.  Don't get me wrong, though... it's certainly tempting to run off to the Yucatan some days, when I look at what our budget will become in the next year :)

[expatartist]

Some good ideas on this thread.

When looking at a budget for these countries, visas are always something to consider. They can require a certain income, or a sizable deposit in a local bank. If you're not an EU citizen, for example, you cannot stay in the UK or Schengen area for more than 3 months at a time unless you have a particular visa. In Thailand for example there are certain age, income, or other criteria which must be met before you can stay there long-term. Relying on visa runs as part of your 'expat' strategy not only gets expensive, it means you could be blocked at any time from entering the country.

Just because we have the $ doesn't mean we are welcome to live everywhere.

[Shane]

In order to live on a small amount of money, it's important to think outside the box. If you try to rent an apartment and buy all of your groceries at a store, you'll never be able to make ends meet anywhere in the U.S. without public assistance, but if you're willing to live unconventionally, you could probably get by on <$250/month just about anywhere in the world.

Volunteering on an organic farm through the WWOOF Program would make your two biggest expenses, food and accommodation, free. It's possible to "WWOOF" on one farm for an entire season or hop around from farm to farm, only staying on each one for a few days, weeks or months at a time. Probably you could afford to live anywhere in the world on $250/month if you were willing to help farmers out in exchange for a place to stay and delicious, healthy food to eat...

There are all different ways I could think of to survive in the U.S. on <$250/month, but they all involve some sort of non-conventional living arrangements. For example, my wife and I once lived on the Island of Hawaii for 6 months and only spent ~$250 each/month, and we had an amazing lifestyle. We did a work trade for our housing. In exchange for free rent on our cabin, my wife and I each volunteered to work a 1/2 day per week helping the landowner take care of her property. We pulled weeds, planted fruit trees, fixed fences, etc., instead of paying rent. The property we lived on was, literally, covered with food-producing plants: bananas, papayas, avocados, guavas, vegetable gardens, etc., so we were able to glean a large part of our food from the land for free.

When my brother first moved to Gainesville, FL to go to grad school, he couldn't move into his apartment until a month after he arrived, so rather than stay in a motel/hotel, he rented a small storage locker to keep his valuables, and slept in his tent in various secluded spots near the university campus. In the daytime, he'd store his tent and other valuables in the storage locker, change clothes and walk around campus like a "regular person." Before dark, he'd head back out on his bicycle with his tent and camping gear in tow, look for a safe place to camp, set everything up quickly, just as it was getting dark, and go to sleep. Rinse and repeat. I'm pretty sure he paid <$100/month for the storage locker, and knowing my brother, he didn't spend more than $150/month on food.

Volunteering to help take care of somebody's house, farm or estate while they're away, possibly through an organization like Trusted Housesitters would be another way to keep expenses low and possibly live on <$250/month. Again, any way that you can avoid having to pay rent makes it possible to get by on very little money.

[arebelspy]

I don't think that would work.

The travel itself between organic farms or trusted house sitter assignments (which are REALLY hard to get--the subscription was a waste of money) alone would take up a large chunk of your budget.

If you could buy a piece of land and build a house and have a garden and such, you could do it pretty much anywhere though.

[markbrynn]

Volunteering on an organic farm through the WWOOF Program

We did a work trade for our housing.

It's debatable, but these kinds of arrangements begin to sound an awful lot like work. Potentially much better than sitting in an office 40 hours a week, but if you need to do something to "earn" your food and shelter than it's more slowing down than retiring. [Sorry, the internet retirement police have arrived again...]

[The_path_less_taken]

Most of the people in the Alaskan Bush live on that now. But their life is no picnic: they cut wood for heat, have no running water or indoor plumbing, hunt/trap/fish most of their food, build their own cabins, etc.

Getting the 2k (or whatever it is) yearly dividend fund helps for ammo/lamp oil/chainsaw blades but still: it is a backbreaking lifestyle.....possibly not as bad in SE Alaska due to fishing being easier and water not freezing as badly but it's tough.

Any temperate latitude where you've paid off your domicile and can grow most of your food makes it possible...but far from easy. (I'm about to hand carry 30 gallons of water to my livestock and I'm not in AK).

Out of everybody posting so far, I agree with Shane: you have to be creative if that's your goal.

So some sort of on site ranch hand/housekeeper/elderly attendant/au pair/group home manager or whatever gives you room/board makes this possible.

I once made $300 a month (in my misspent youth) as a ranch hand in Wyoming but since they paid food/board/clothing it was plenty.

[StetsTerhune]

I think the bottom line here is that there's lots of ways to live on ~4k a year, but they all involve very few options or a lot of work. There's lots of places in America you could get a house for 30k. So that's ~$150 a month mortgage/taxes, then you got another $6 a day to spend on food and miscellaneous. Easy. You just can't spend money on ANYTHING else. No car, no vacations, no nothing.

Same basic thing for the international destinations. It's easy to find a place where you can get housing and food for $330 a month. Then that's it. That's your life now.

I genuinely considered this when I was a younger man. I had a small inheritance that would have been enough to do just about this exactly. Went to SE Asia, hung out for a while. It was pretty awesome, but not something I could do (at that spending level) for the rest of my life. Lesson learned.

[dude]

The answer: Anywhere where the average COL is less than or equal to 4% of what you could save in two years, and you don't mind living like a local.

I'm sure there are lists online by googling of cheapest places to live.  I started typing cheapest cost and google autosuggested cheapest cost of living in the world, with lots of articles.

For me, for example, we saved maybe 30k and 45k our first two years of working (teachers, so only making about 50 then 70k combined, gross).

So 4% of 75k stache is 3000/yr, or 250/mo.

Most of the articles I found are aimed at expats who have significantly more than that, and many of the article are focused on the percent COL (apparently India costs 40% of what NY does).  And they often break it down by type (food, fuel, lodging, etc.)  Very few focus on what locals spend in absolute dollars, which doesn't help me.

I think you'd have an easier time looking up average wages of a place, and assume the locals spend less than heat average wage.

With that in mind:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage

Looking at the ILO stats, which is adjusted for purchasing power, my 250/mo. doesn't let me live anywhere, though it's really close to the bottom one, Pakistan, at $255/mo.

The UNECE data does give me one place to live, the bottom one on their charts: Tajikistan, at $247/mo.

 OMY sounds like a better plan. ;)

HA!!!

[dude]

I'd probably work a few more years then head to somewhere in Mexico.  Lots of decent places where $1000/mo would go very far.  If I had to pick one place, I'd say Mexico City but it's cheaper in most other non-beach/resort areas in Mexico. 

Oaxaca city was pretty cheap when we were there for 2 weeks this past summer.  Weather is pretty good year round (but gets hot for 1-2 months).  The place we rented was $21 USD/nt for a 3 BR house (well, 2 BR plus a casita with it's own bathroom/bedroom just a few feet from the main house) in a good neighborhood but I found other 1 BRs and studios furnished for closer to $8-10/USD per night.  Decent meals could be had for $2 USD (Chinese, local stuff from the market stalls, 1/4 of a BOGO pizza deal, an all you can eat Mexican place we found, etc). 

If you just wanted to chill, relax, and live pretty simple backpacker traveler style, you could probably get by on $500/mo, maybe $700/mo for a couple.  Could you save $150k in 2 years as a single person or $210k in 2 years as a married couple?  We came close in our later years of working.

good lord though, air quality in Mexico City when I was there was abysmal!  And garbage everywhere!  The roads out of Mexico City were lined 10-15' high with trash for MILES. It was one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen.  The countryside was beautiful though.  I'd bet in Pueblo or Tlachichuca you could live pretty damn cheaply.

[Bearded Man]

Following.

[golfreak12]

Based on a similar idea, I have milestones set up in my Excel sheet when invested assets reach certain amounts - these milestones are when the stash generates at a 4% wr, 2x the average salary in cities I could potentially live in. If I only had 2 years, I'd have to go for 1x average salary.

City                    Stash
Kathmandu        $50k
Vientiane            $75k
Ho Chi Minh        $100k

I'd only be able to swing Kathmandu on my income and savings rate within 2 years lol.

Sorry but no one here is going to able to live in HCM on $333 per month.
First, the COL there have gone up quite a bit in the past 5 yrs.
Second, people there are making ~$250 and all of them are living in their family, hence ZERO rent.
I'm estimating, but an American living dirt poor there would need at least $500/month. Living normal would require $800. Living well = $1200/month.

[tarheeldan]

Sorry but no one here is going to able to live in HCM on $333 per month.
First, the COL there have gone up quite a bit in the past 5 yrs.
Second, people there are making ~$250 and all of them are living in their family, hence ZERO rent.
I'm estimating, but an American living dirt poor there would need at least $500/month. Living normal would require $800. Living well = $1200/month.

They/you may not want to but one could certainly live on $333/mo there.

[partgypsy]

Maybe you all can give advice on my mother who gets 550 a month from soc sec, Is there a place she can live on that amount? Mom has at this time estimating 180K of equity in her house if/when she sold, moved.

The other complicating factor is she lives with my brother (no job) and sister (makes $700? month part time) and she thinks despite her bad situation, she can still continue to subsidize them (have them live with her for no or little amount). I'm thinking any place that is lower cost of living, would have less working opportunities for my sister.
there is no way she would live in another country, and would prefer the Midwest.
 

[partgypsy]

Based on a similar idea, I have milestones set up in my Excel sheet when invested assets reach certain amounts - these milestones are when the stash generates at a 4% wr, 2x the average salary in cities I could potentially live in. If I only had 2 years, I'd have to go for 1x average salary.

City                    Stash
Kathmandu        $50k
Vientiane            $75k
Ho Chi Minh        $100k

I'd only be able to swing Kathmandu on my income and savings rate within 2 years lol.

Sorry but no one here is going to able to live in HCM on $333 per month.
First, the COL there have gone up quite a bit in the past 5 yrs.
Second, people there are making ~$250 and all of them are living in their family, hence ZERO rent.
I'm estimating, but an American living dirt poor there would need at least $500/month. Living normal would require $800. Living well = $1200/month.

This is what I want to know. Even living dirt poor, who can find a place to even rent per person that is less than $500 a month? That's not including any other expenses like food utilities, health care, transportation, etc. Seems like that's only possible if have housing taken care of in some way. 

[tarheeldan]

This is what I want to know. Even living dirt poor, who can find a place to even rent per person that is less than $500 a month? That's not including any other expenses like food utilities, health care, transportation, etc. Seems like that's only possible if have housing taken care of in some way.

In the US MW, I can't think of any possibility besides renting a room in a house.

For Vietnam, $250/mo is doable and less than that too:
http://www.johnnyfd.com/2014/02/my-new-250-month-apartment-in-saigon-ho.html

[arebelspy]

This is what I want to know. Even living dirt poor, who can find a place to even rent per person that is less than $500 a month? That's not including any other expenses like food utilities, health care, transportation, etc. Seems like that's only possible if have housing taken care of in some way.

In the US MW, I can't think of any possibility besides renting a room in a house.

For Vietnam, $250/mo is doable and less than that too:
http://www.johnnyfd.com/2014/02/my-new-250-month-apartment-in-saigon-ho.html

That apartment is $250 by itself, so I don't see how you could live on $250.

Housing should be about 1/3 your budget.  I'd believe a budget of maybe 700.

And it didn't even have its own kitchen for cooking.  That makes food more expensive (even when eating out is "cheap," it's still less to cook).

[Shane]

Maybe you all can give advice on my mother who gets 550 a month from soc sec, Is there a place she can live on that amount? Mom has at this time estimating 180K of equity in her house if/when she sold, moved.

The other complicating factor is she lives with my brother (no job) and sister (makes $700? month part time) and she thinks despite her bad situation, she can still continue to subsidize them (have them live with her for no or little amount). I'm thinking any place that is lower cost of living, would have less working opportunities for my sister.
there is no way she would live in another country, and would prefer the Midwest.
 

If your mom started charging your siblings rent for their rooms in her house, she could probably live well. If for some reason your brother and sister cannot pay rent,  e.g., they are disabled, then they should qualify for Section 8 housing assistance from the federal government. If they're able to work and just don't feel like it, tell your mom to kick the bums out and find a couple of reliable tenants to share her home with her, and she'll be able to live off the rent she receives. 

[Shane]

This is what I want to know. Even living dirt poor, who can find a place to even rent per person that is less than $500 a month? That's not including any other expenses like food utilities, health care, transportation, etc. Seems like that's only possible if have housing taken care of in some way.

In the US MW, I can't think of any possibility besides renting a room in a house.

For Vietnam, $250/mo is doable and less than that too:
http://www.johnnyfd.com/2014/02/my-new-250-month-apartment-in-saigon-ho.html

That apartment is $250 by itself, so I don't see how you could live on $250.

Housing should be about 1/3 your budget.  I'd believe a budget of maybe 700.

And it didn't even have its own kitchen for cooking.  That makes food more expensive (even when eating out is "cheap," it's still less to cook).

Paradoxically, it can be cheaper to eat all meals out in some places. I know that sounds intuitively incorrect, but I've heard the same thing from several people living in Asia. A local growing vegetables and raising animals in her own backyard can cook food and serve it to you in a street stall for less than you would be able to bargain for the raw food in the market. It doesn't make sense, but it's apparently true in some places.

[tarheeldan]

That apartment is $250 by itself, so I don't see how you could live on $250.

No one said that, partgypsy asked if rent <$500/mo was possible. Upthread we were talking $333/mo to live in Saigon (HCM District 1) and I think still think that's doable - but I'm a spoiled westerner so my spreadsheet doesn't hit the Ho Chi Minh milestone until invested assets throw off 2x the average after-tax salary from Numbeo, so $666/mo - just under your $700.

ETA: Yes, like Shane said street food is very competitive in SEA.

[Shane]

I don't think that would work.

The travel itself between organic farms or trusted house sitter assignments (which are REALLY hard to get--the subscription was a waste of money) alone would take up a large chunk of your budget.

If you could buy a piece of land and build a house and have a garden and such, you could do it pretty much anywhere though.

I don't have any personal experience with getting house sitting positions online. The Trusted Housesitters link I posted is just something I've read about.

Where I live in Hawaii it's really common for people to pick up informal house sitting gigs, sometimes long term. I've known many people who live for free here. In exchange you usually have to do some work to help take care of the place where you live, but it's not more work than you would do if you owned the place, e.g., cut the grass, weedwack, fix little things that break, etc. There are many absentee landowners where we live, and they all want to have somebody around to keep an eye on their place while they're off sailing their boat in Tahiti or travelling around Europe or whatever. Here, it's possible to pick up some really epic gigs as a house sitter, and because it's warm year round, it's possible to live on less than $250/month because you can grown your own vegetables year round, hunt wild pigs for meat, fish, pick wild fruit (guavas to eat raw and for jam, papayas, bananas, jackfruit, etc.).

The WWOOFing thing here is really big as well. I pick up hitchhikers all the time who are WWOOFing on nearby farms. Sure, you gotta work a little bit, but it's a pretty laid back lifestyle, low stress, and you usually get all you can eat and a warm, dry place to sleep for free.

[Shane]

Volunteering on an organic farm through the WWOOF Program

We did a work trade for our housing.

It's debatable, but these kinds of arrangements begin to sound an awful lot like work. Potentially much better than sitting in an office 40 hours a week, but if you need to do something to "earn" your food and shelter than it's more slowing down than retiring. [Sorry, the internet retirement police have arrived again...]

My wife and I own our own farm, and over the past 18 years we've had dozens of WWOOFer type helpers stay with us, some of them for up to a year at a time. In exchange for the helpers' labor we have provided them with a free place to stay and good, healthy food to eat. Sometimes the helpers have stayed in their own tent, at other times we've had nicer accommodations to offer them. My observation is that as the owners of the land/farm, my wife and I always have to do WAY, WAY more work and have much higher stress levels than any of our helpers. Sure, the helpers have to work an average of a couple/few hours per day in exchange for their room/board, but when their work time is up, they're free to go to the beach or go hiking or whatever they feel like doing. When you're the owner, the work never ends. When something breaks, we're the ones who have to figure out how to fix it or find somebody who can fix it for us, and we have to come up with the cash to pay for the parts/labor to get it fixed. All the while, our helpers get to enjoy living in the same beautiful place as we do, just with no stress.

When I grow up I want to be a WWOOFer! :)

[Roboturner]

interested...

my SO and I are both in O&G, were thinking if we get axed that we'd hang out somewhere rather than trying to scramble in the states

[druth]

Maybe you all can give advice on my mother who gets 550 a month from soc sec, Is there a place she can live on that amount? Mom has at this time estimating 180K of equity in her house if/when she sold, moved.

The other complicating factor is she lives with my brother (no job) and sister (makes $700? month part time) and she thinks despite her bad situation, she can still continue to subsidize them (have them live with her for no or little amount). I'm thinking any place that is lower cost of living, would have less working opportunities for my sister.
there is no way she would live in another country, and would prefer the Midwest.
 

Well she definitely can't live anywhere that she is subsidizing her kids...  I think in that situation it doesn't really matter where she lives, just what services she can get there.  Near me(St Paul) there are some Episcopal Homes senior living buildings that are capped at 30% of your income and are on the train line to lots of amenities.  I wouldn't look at cost of living calculators or anything, think about her specific situation.

[partgypsy]

Maybe you all can give advice on my mother who gets 550 a month from soc sec, Is there a place she can live on that amount? Mom has at this time estimating 180K of equity in her house if/when she sold, moved.

The other complicating factor is she lives with my brother (no job) and sister (makes $700? month part time) and she thinks despite her bad situation, she can still continue to subsidize them (have them live with her for no or little amount). I'm thinking any place that is lower cost of living, would have less working opportunities for my sister.
there is no way she would live in another country, and would prefer the Midwest.
 

Well she definitely can't live anywhere that she is subsidizing her kids...  I think in that situation it doesn't really matter where she lives, just what services she can get there.  Near me(St Paul) there are some Episcopal Homes senior living buildings that are capped at 30% of your income and are on the train line to lots of amenities.  I wouldn't look at cost of living calculators or anything, think about her specific situation.

Yeah from my research her best bet is to get into senior subsidized housing (she is 73) but she refuses to consider that (or townhome or condo or other less nice places to live). Right now her "plan" seems to be live off the equity of the house until she defaults on loans, and then after that hope someone rescues her. She has said stuff like she wants me to find her a 3 bed, 2 bath house for 100K (not possible in the areas she wants to live, or "I just wish someone would buy me a house."
 
Really hard for me to watch, especially as both of my siblings appear to becoming less functional over time, which means they are totally unprepared for when the bottom will fall out. I don't care what happens to my brother, but I do wonder if there is any subsidized housing for people in their 40's, 50's.

[RootofGood]

good lord though, air quality in Mexico City when I was there was abysmal!  And garbage everywhere!  The roads out of Mexico City were lined 10-15' high with trash for MILES. It was one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen.  The countryside was beautiful though.  I'd bet in Pueblo or Tlachichuca you could live pretty damn cheaply.

I don't remember the piles of trash.  I mean, there's developing nation trash all over, but I don't recall 10-15' walls of trash. 

We stayed in Mixcoac while in Mexico City last time.  Nice middle to upper middle class local Mexican neighborhood.  It's near some major roads (including the Periferico) but also was 1 block from the subway.  Air quality was as good as some major US cities.  No black boogers like we had when we spent a couple weeks there 15 years ago (emissions controls and less diesel I assume).  No sore throats.  Although we could see the smog at times and it showed up in some pictures. 

There's tons of stuff to do in the city that you won't get as much of in smaller cities.  And $0.30 USD for the subway is quite a steal to get across the city quickly and efficiently.  But other smaller cities would probably be a lot cheaper overall (mostly rent).

[Cape Town Girl]

Cape Town, South Africa :) Breathtaking and now with the rand at all time low (sad face) very cheap for you guys!!

[iamlindoro]

We stayed in Mixcoac while in Mexico City last time.  Nice middle to upper middle class local Mexican neighborhood.  It's near some major roads (including the Periferico) but also was 1 block from the subway.  Air quality was as good as some major US cities.  No black boogers like we had when we spent a couple weeks there 15 years ago (emissions controls and less diesel I assume).  No sore throats.  Although we could see the smog at times and it showed up in some pictures. 

We also adore Mexico City!  We stay in the Cuahutemoc area usually.  Totally agree about the abundance of things to do, and that by and large, the city has come a long way in terms of cleanliness.  I often tell people it feels a lot like a major European City in some ways, but nobody ever tends to believe me.  It's funny how a city with so much going on can still feel like a hidden gem because of our general overestimation of the danger there (to others reading, it also feels very safe).  We've talked about spending a little time there in RE too.  Even if we don't, we'll certainly keep visiting for the foreseeable future.

[dontwannaworkforever]

My wife is from the Philippines and if cost of living stays though there for the next 50 years we will probably go there.

[FarmStash]

This is an interesting topic.

Only problem I could see is that most of these places are currently in the process of developing and as they do cost of living might increase at a higher rate in the coming decades than an initially more expensive developed nation possibly cutting retirement short at some point.

[iamlindoro]

This is an interesting topic.

Only problem I could see is that most of these places are currently in the process of developing and as they do cost of living might increase at a higher rate in the coming decades than an initially more expensive developed nation possibly cutting retirement short at some point.

That's when you exercise the mustachian principle of flexibility and find someplace new and exciting!  Anyone who is aggressive enough to pull the trigger on such a bare-minimum retirement amount would need to be willing to make drastic changes if conditions changed.

[tmoneyearlyretiree]

apparently another blogger agrees with my $12.50 a day http://secondforge.com/blog/2015/12/12/thinking-about-investing-in-dimes-per-day/

however he finds that you could live in the US for that level of spending, very interesting way of looking at investing, a dime a day higher living standard forever for every $1000 you invest

[Petunia 100]

Maybe you all can give advice on my mother who gets 550 a month from soc sec, Is there a place she can live on that amount? Mom has at this time estimating 180K of equity in her house if/when she sold, moved.

The other complicating factor is she lives with my brother (no job) and sister (makes $700? month part time) and she thinks despite her bad situation, she can still continue to subsidize them (have them live with her for no or little amount). I'm thinking any place that is lower cost of living, would have less working opportunities for my sister.
there is no way she would live in another country, and would prefer the Midwest. 

It sounds like she doesn't really want to help herself, and it is very difficult to help someone who will not help theirself.

However, I wonder if she has explored a reverse mortgage?  A reverse mortgage could get her out from under P&I payments and possibly a small lump sum which could be converted into a small amount of monthly.   
 

[RootofGood]

We also adore Mexico City!  We stay in the Cuahutemoc area usually.  Totally agree about the abundance of things to do, and that by and large, the city has come a long way in terms of cleanliness.  I often tell people it feels a lot like a major European City in some ways, but nobody ever tends to believe me.  It's funny how a city with so much going on can still feel like a hidden gem because of our general overestimation of the danger there (to others reading, it also feels very safe).  We've talked about spending a little time there in RE too.  Even if we don't, we'll certainly keep visiting for the foreseeable future.

Definitely a hidden gem of a city.  It reminds me a little of NYC in terms of the attractions plus the huge Chapultepec park, except it's not as vertical (but feels just as busy on the street!).  I guess the architecture in the centro also looks like a European city too.

We've never stayed in the Cuahutemoc area but it looks like a good compromise between the Zocalo tourist area and Chapultepec (where we tended to end up on most days). 

[arebelspy]

apparently another blogger agrees with my $12.50 a day http://secondforge.com/blog/2015/12/12/thinking-about-investing-in-dimes-per-day/

however he finds that you could live in the US for that level of spending, very interesting way of looking at investing, a dime a day higher living standard forever for every $1000 you invest

A dime a day per 1k invested is a 3.65% WR.  I agree with their assessment, that should hold up 99 times out of 100.

I'd probably multiply the number by 10x or 100x to get to something more tangible, like $10k saved = $1/day.  Or $100k saved = $10/day.

But it is a fun mental note/game.

[Landlord2015]

Oh god this one is a tough one...

I have not thought about retiring in 2 years feel to young for it and I need way more money.

I have to do more research regarding that. I might stand in Finland but it has much to do I have friends and relatives in Finland.

That said Europe sounds generally nice and perhaps Asia. I am sure America is wonderful but I can not see how it would be cheaper for me to move to America then another country in say Europe. Europe differs hugely of course depending on which Europe country.

Anyway I do like to travel and while I might not retire to America I might still visit as a tourist America.

I hear some of you American say southAmerica or Mexico... right sure there is cheaper but the hardcore including murder crime statistics is horrible. That is the impression I got from them not safe. Sure there is one really dangerous city in Europe. Wrongly many believe it is Kiev which for certain has its dangers, but Europes most dangerous city is Riga in Latvia huge amount of tourists killed every year and Brittish stag parties still go there.

Riga is probably more dangerous then the average Russian city. You see The Latvians and Russiand dislike each other but don't kill each in Riga. However Riga is the only big city in Europe that seems to have the notion that if tourists go missing or die that is not a problem.

Riga day time might be fairly safe, but make no mistake nightlife is deadly dangerous. It will not matter if a Brittish stag party of 15 men go out. They will slaughter all of them if they are unlucky.

Every other European city understands that reputation is good to have at least average and a paying tourist might visit again. For example Kiev is raw in some aspects, but I felt fairly safe there. My skin is crystal clear white and I look like a Russian.
What how white skin??? See the Americans TV series so white skin as the agent couple in that TV series:
The Americans (2013– )
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2149175/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

They thought in Kiev I was a Russian tourist specially when I could speak a few words and phrases Russian, but in truth my Russian language skills are horrible poor.

Yes I did enter Kiev nightlife and nothing bad or horrible happened, but it is not the safest of cities.

[iamlindoro]

I hear some of you American say southAmerica or Mexico... right sure there is cheaper but the hardcore including murder crime statistics is horrible. That is the impression I got from them not safe.

You have a mistaken impression.  Most violent crime in Mexico occurs at the border area, and generally only between parties involved in one sense or another with the narcotics trade (or those who act to oppose them).  There are numerous states in Mexico with a lower intentional murder rate than the US.  In South America, Chile has a lower murder rate than the US average.  In almost every Central or South American country, you can find places to live safer than many cities in the US.

All of that also ignores the fact that in all but the most dangerous places in Central or South America, the chances of you falling victim to violent crime are so small that they don't merit any concern whatsoever.  A murder rate 50, 100, or even 200% over the average developed country is still a statistical blip.

Europeans and North Americans regularly retire to all of these countries, and very, very few fall victim to a violent crime.   Avoid these countries if you like (lord knows plenty of North Americans have the same incorrect impression that you do), but you'll be missing out.  They're wonderful.