Where to live frugally in Denver? Working downtown.

[blurkraken22]

EDIT2 (2020-10-08): It's probably more useful to read post #6 below first, where I do a much better job of describing my target areas in Denver.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/where-to-live-frugally-in-denver-working-downtown/msg2712359/#msg2712359

Hello everyone. I've been lurking here for a few years, but I finally needed to create an account today to ask for advice. I'm considering accepting a job in downtown Denver. I'm trying to figure out what kind of COL to expect to help with the decision. My aim would be to stash and much cash possible, so it would be great to minimize rent payments. I'm not buying a house unless I'm sure I want to live in it for a very very long time, so I will rent for now.

I'm married, no kids, living abroad in a HCOL city. Current apartment is 400 ft2 1BR. Rent is 55% of our monthly expenses and I would like to see that ratio decline a little if possible. On the other hand, it might be nice to have more a little more space as I expect prices to be lower in the Denver area. We've found hosting guests to be challenging in 400 ft2. (Note: The landlord says it's 500 ft2. The local customs for measuring square footage make no sense to me. I measured total wall to wall dimensions, excluding nothing and got 380 ft2.)  Probably would not go beyond 2BR though.

We have no car here, but we have one in storage in the USA. Back when we went to office, I would bike to work about half the time (~5mi) and take transit the rest. We are thinking about bringing the car for the purpose of taking weekend trips: camping, hiking, skiing (if I can remember how).

Questions
*  Where could I look for housing where my commute would be less than 30 minutes on transit (plus 10 minute walk from Union Station) or 45 minutes by pedal or foot power? I used to have a 35 minute walking commute a few years ago and I came to really enjoy that walk. It would be awesome if I could do that in Denver.
*  Are there any less expensive neighborhoods where I won't feel unsafe walking around at night?
*  I get the impression that in most of the earlier threads I've read, living in Denver proper is not recommended. Can anyone comment on that?
*  Would said neighborhoods be fully walkable (walk for groceries, errands, etc) or will I need to rely on the transit system (or car) for some important activities?
*  Should I consider suburbs and being farther from downtown? Why?
*  Bring the car or sell it? Already has snow tires for midwestern winters.

EDIT1: Added one more question.

[friedmmj]

Congrats on the new job!

I'm not a resident of Denver.  I've been there a few times recently though and it is a great city.  Very liveable. 

What is your budget or target amount to spend for housing?  Do you ski/snowboard?  That could be a consideration regarding whether to have a car or not although you could rely on shuttle services if needed to get into the mountain resort areas.

The close-in suburbs to the Southeast of downtown are very nice with lots of upscale restaurants, parks, etc.

[Assetup]

If you work in downtown Denver and you are limiting your commute to 30 minutes then you are for sure still looking at the greater Denver area and can't get a bit farther out for cheaper housing.   I'd recommend looking at Aurora, Thornton and Commerce city(might avoid this last one) for cheaper rents but realize that the lower end market tends to have more crime and those stats tend to vary by block. Also Denver has a light rail and a decent bus system for commuting if that's your thing.

That being said as a big city Denver is a pretty safe city overall.  I have a close friend that lives there and was in the market for a small one bedroom apartment.  Unless the place was a total hell hole the prices seemed to be right around $1200-1500 per month.  It fluctuates a bit and if you can hold off for a few months rents drop a little going into the winter.

Also the only market not exploding right now is Denver proper.  People are working from home so they can get out of the city and there was some rioting in downtown Denver so some families are distancing themselves.  You may be able to find a good deal there right now if you can handle a bit of unrest.

Good luck!

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[therethere]

The only areas that are a bit on the downslide right now, but not really unsafe, is the Five Points/Ballpark/Downtown/Capital Hill areas. They shut down or dramatically restricted the shelter beds at the start of COVID which has caused a huge uptick in urban camping sites (it's always been there but has gotten much worse). Unfortunately, there is a high concentration of these camps limited to a select few neighborhoods. To me, right now, this is the majority of the unrest in the city. I'm living downtown. I would definitely not accept an apartment sight unseen right now as so much depends on what the situation is around the apartment.

Personally, I would hate to live in the suburbs so I think it's silly that you have the impression that Denver proper is not safe. I don't even like to go outside of Denver proper unless I'm going to the mountains. It's a rare day that I drive to the suburbs for anything other than a craigslist find.

[Assetup]

I can say from experience that I was far from comfortable while walking in downtown Denver at night but like you said that varies by neighborhood/street.  Everyone likes something a bit different but I would never personally move to Denver proper.

Depend on if OP wants to live in the burbs or in Denver proper.  I assumed he was looking into the suburbs because of the 30 minute commute portion

[the_fixer]

Lived in downtown right off the 16th street mall, we took jobs in Denver and my wife worked a few blocks away and would walk to work each day. While it was expensive we did not use a car much (maybe once a month) since we could walk to everything we needed on a day to day basis. So while housing was more expensive if you both work in walking / biking distance it can be a wash due to not having to pay for gas / commute.

It has been a while since we lived in downtown so I am not in touch with the current situation RE homeless camps / violence and so forth so scout the area prior to leasing. The old advice was not to go past park ave but 5 point was starting to get better as we were leaving but from the news it has been a turbulent area as of late.

We have a decent light rail system, study it and you will see that there are many locations you can get to downtown Denver by rail in a short time so weigh the commute / cost of transportation and what you get.


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[blurkraken22]

I'm sorry I was a bit unclear on Denver proper versus suburbs. Let me give ranked preferences. Actually, this was a helpful exercise for me, now I can do better research on rental prices without getting distracted by stuff that's too far away.

Before thinking about cost, I prefer the following:

• Strong preference here: Short walking commute (less than 35 minutes, I drew a 2 mile radius below to represent that area.
• Short bicycle commute (less than 35 minutes, I drew a 6 mile radius to represent this area. Better if there's a transit backup available if the weather's bad.
• Longer bicycle commute is OK if it's mostly along pleasant trails, which Denver has lots of. Better if there's a transit backup available if the weather's bad.
• Transit commute (less than 45 minutes).
• I don't ever want to drive to the office every day again.

I made an image for zone of walkability:


And another one for approximate zone of bikability:


It looks to me like both circles, for practical purposes are fully within Denver proper. I'm sure with better knowledge of the transit system, I could find some options in the suburbs, but that's honestly not a big priority. I like living in the city.

The sanity check question: Will it be substantially cheaper, overall, to avoid city rents and go further down my preference list? That is, should I compromise on my preference for walking in order to save money? How much would I save?

[blurkraken22]

The only areas that are a bit on the downslide right now, but not really unsafe, is the Five Points/Ballpark/Downtown/Capital Hill areas. They shut down or dramatically restricted the shelter beds at the start of COVID which has caused a huge uptick in urban camping sites (it's always been there but has gotten much worse). Unfortunately, there is a high concentration of these camps limited to a select few neighborhoods. To me, right now, this is the majority of the unrest in the city. I'm living downtown. I would definitely not accept an apartment sight unseen right now as so much depends on what the situation is around the apartment.

Personally, I would hate to live in the suburbs so I think it's silly that you have the impression that Denver proper is not safe. I don't even like to go outside of Denver proper unless I'm going to the mountains. It's a rare day that I drive to the suburbs for anything other than a craigslist find.

I would like to hear more about your experience in city living, because it looks like you're pretty close to the lifestyle I'm after. Please tell me more. :)

I don't think Denver is unsafe. I just wanted to add a caveat (unnecessary in hindsight) that safety would be important in my quest for cheap rent. To be more philosophical, I have friends who have chosen to live in less affluent neighborhoods in their respective cities. These places are often perceived as unsafe by outsiders, but my friends mostly tell me the fears are far overblown.

[Steeze]

Consider the bike trail network also. South / south east Denver suburbs are nice. Used to live out by Greenwood Village / Littleton, and you can ride the high line trail into Downtown Denver in 30 min if you are quick. Light rail in that area is near University (DU) or Bellevue (DTC).

Renting a condo in those areas isn’t too crazy, but houses are expensive. It is on the far side for never wanting to drive though. If I was going to try to only walk/bike the I’d go closer in. University area might be more manageable.

A friend of mine commuted from there to Golden by bike, so I know it can be done.

[blurkraken22]

Consider the bike trail network also. South / south east Denver suburbs are nice. Used to live out by Greenwood Village / Littleton, and you can ride the high line trail into Downtown Denver in 30 min if you are quick. Light rail in that area is near University (DU) or Bellevue (DTC).

Renting a condo in those areas isn’t too crazy, but houses are expensive. It is on the far side for never wanting to drive though. If I was going to try to only walk/bike the I’d go closer in. University area might be more manageable.

A friend of mine commuted from there to Golden by bike, so I know it can be done.

As a former midwesterner, I've gotta say, the bike trail network in Denver looks AMAZING!

But when I think about moving out to the burbs, other potential problems start to come up. These are just assumptions based on my experience in the midwest. Would you say they apply to Denver?

• Suburban planning in many cities is built around the assumption that you have a car and intend to use it. Cannot walk to supermarket, post office, bar, restaurant.
• The advantage being we probably won't need to worry about where/how to store the car if we bring it along.
• 1BR and smaller area apartments are relatively infrequent, and therefore overpriced compared to 2/3BR.

Would you say that Greenwood Village / Littleton will be walkable? Will rent be appreciably lower than within my green circle above? I would like to pay strictly less than $1200/month after utilities if that is feasible.

[the_fixer]

Pretty hard to draw a radius as other have said the Denver metro area has great options for biking and transit but one area can be great while other are grid locked car hell (yes calling you out 225 and 270)

For example you could live by highlands ranch and take light rail into downtown Denver in 30 mins or live by Boulder like me and take the flatirons flyer and be in downtown in ~20 mins or bike in 30 mins. Or you could be in commerce city and stuck in traffic trying to go a few miles.

I would suggest finding a place that is close to work to start with (FYI biking around downtown can be pretty rough I suggest a trail IMO or within walking distance) and spending some weekends exploring the areas, get on a bike and light rail explore and you will find a place that you are happy with.


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[the_fixer]

Consider the bike trail network also. South / south east Denver suburbs are nice. Used to live out by Greenwood Village / Littleton, and you can ride the high line trail into Downtown Denver in 30 min if you are quick. Light rail in that area is near University (DU) or Bellevue (DTC).

Renting a condo in those areas isn’t too crazy, but houses are expensive. It is on the far side for never wanting to drive though. If I was going to try to only walk/bike the I’d go closer in. University area might be more manageable.

A friend of mine commuted from there to Golden by bike, so I know it can be done.

As a former midwesterner, I've gotta say, the bike trail network in Denver looks AMAZING!

But when I think about moving out to the burbs, other potential problems start to come up. These are just assumptions based on my experience in the midwest. Would you say they apply to Denver?

• Suburban planning in many cities is built around the assumption that you have a car and intend to use it. Cannot walk to supermarket, post office, bar, restaurant.
• The advantage being we probably won't need to worry about where/how to store the car if we bring it along.
• 1BR and smaller area apartments are relatively infrequent, and therefore overpriced compared to 2/3BR.

Would you say that Greenwood Village / Littleton will be walkable? Will rent be appreciably lower than within my green circle above? I would like to pay strictly less than $1200/month after utilities if that is feasible.

Honestly it just depends.. most of the burbs have walkable areas. Again using highlands ranch as most people would call it suburban sprawl to the extreme we could walk or bike on a path to everything we needed

Walgreens only a few blocks
King soopers only a few blocks
Dry cleaners only a few blocks
Grade, middle and high schools a few blocks away
Dozens of restaurants anywhere from a few blocks to a mile
MT bike trails 2 blocks from my door step
Ace hardware, kinkos pretty much everything you need

Just have to explore and each place has walkable bike-able areas


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[Steeze]

Consider the bike trail network also. South / south east Denver suburbs are nice. Used to live out by Greenwood Village / Littleton, and you can ride the high line trail into Downtown Denver in 30 min if you are quick. Light rail in that area is near University (DU) or Bellevue (DTC).

Renting a condo in those areas isn’t too crazy, but houses are expensive. It is on the far side for never wanting to drive though. If I was going to try to only walk/bike the I’d go closer in. University area might be more manageable.

A friend of mine commuted from there to Golden by bike, so I know it can be done.

As a former midwesterner, I've gotta say, the bike trail network in Denver looks AMAZING!

But when I think about moving out to the burbs, other potential problems start to come up. These are just assumptions based on my experience in the midwest. Would you say they apply to Denver?

• Suburban planning in many cities is built around the assumption that you have a car and intend to use it. Cannot walk to supermarket, post office, bar, restaurant.
• The advantage being we probably won't need to worry about where/how to store the car if we bring it along.
• 1BR and smaller area apartments are relatively infrequent, and therefore overpriced compared to 2/3BR.

Would you say that Greenwood Village / Littleton will be walkable? Will rent be appreciably lower than within my green circle above? I would like to pay strictly less than $1200/month after utilities if that is feasible.

Most areas In the suburbs are not walkable - just expanses of houses in every direction. But there are areas around the shopping centers that have condos that are cheaper and walkable, granted not like downtown. I like the burbs though, but that is me.

$1200 is still doable. Depends on the lifestyle you are looking for. The burbs are further, safer, quieter, greener, more big box, more vanilla, more predictable, less walkable.

Downtown is more of a scene, vibrant, more unique, more diverse, more walkable, but also comes with more crime, visible homelessness, etc.

I think you could probably find $1200/mo in most neighborhoods for a 1br, but probably $1500 is more the norm last I checked. I haven’t lived there for a few years, prices were about 30-40% cheaper then.

If you want to walk to work then you know your answer - look in the green circle. Denver is pretty safe - I never felt at risk walking around at night.

[blurkraken22]

Most areas In the suburbs are not walkable - just expanses of houses in every direction. But there are areas around the shopping centers that have condos that are cheaper and walkable, granted not like downtown. I like the burbs though, but that is me.

$1200 is still doable. Depends on the lifestyle you are looking for. The burbs are further, safer, quieter, greener, more big box, more vanilla, more predictable, less walkable.

Downtown is more of a scene, vibrant, more unique, more diverse, more walkable, but also comes with more crime, visible homelessness, etc.

I think you could probably find $1200/mo in most neighborhoods for a 1br, but probably $1500 is more the norm last I checked. I haven’t lived there for a few years, prices were about 30-40% cheaper then.

If you want to walk to work then you know your answer - look in the green circle. Denver is pretty safe - I never felt at risk walking around at night.

Yup, I think looking in the circle is what I will need to do. There are plenty of listings below $1,200 with various levels of quality. A relocation strategy I used in the past was to grab a cheap temporary rental unit to give myself time to explore neighborhoods and decide where would be nice to live. I think I'm going to need to do that so I can explore the hoods in the green circle. Lots of apartments listed for rent in Capitol Hill and North, City Park West and sort of radiating out from there the prices seem to rise a little. It's hard to tell until you have feet on the ground. I can't wait to go for a walk in Denver!

[the_fixer]

City park west would be a pass for me.

Look at how Park Ave cuts across the town northwest to southeast I-25 to Colfax I would be critical of anything on the east side of park ave due possibility of crime and stuff.

Exception such as RINO and ballpark (but it sounds like ballpark might be a pass now days according to a poster above)

There are some cool / decent areas across I-25    to the northwest that are an easy walk as well that are worth looking into basically across the white pedestrian bridge from downtown.


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[therethere]

If you are younger and don't have a family, and don't plan to have one in the immediate next few years. Do not move to Highlands Ranch or Littleton you will regret it! I mean, if you love HOA's, strip malls, and same-ness then by all means move to the suburbs. But, I get the feeling you're younger and still looking for where you live to provide interest, joy, and things to do, not just a house and a yard. But maybe I'm reading you wrong.

City Park West would actually be a good area, but there's not many apartments there or public transport. You should be able to get a steal on an apartment right now since they've been building them like crazy at the same time as a lot of people are moving into SFHs. I think your $1200 all inclusive is a little tight though and willdrastically limit your options. Rent is just high here. Most first timers to the city move to Capital Hill. It's got cheap, older apartments and is near parks, but has no parking. This sounds like your best bet right now near your price range, but maybe slightly higher. The "luxury" new build high rises in Five Points and Uptown (yes, there's something like 45+ named neighborhoods here) are going to be $1600-$2000/month. I bet they are running 1 month free specials though due to vacancies.

I'm not trying to downplay others experiences. But to counter here is my own: The people without housing generally do not bother anyone. Unless you are disturbed by pacing and loud ranting.  Yes, crime is up this year but isn't it everywhere? But you still don't want to live near a camp if you can help it. Biking downtown is not an issue at all, there's tons of bike lanes and and I actually prefer it to driving downtown. I used to ride my bike to work ~4 miles across the city and could snag a bike lane the whole way. There's strength in numbers here, drivers expect bikers and scooters downtown. So your no car plan is totally possible here, except I'm a wimp and drive in the winter.

[carolina822]

I went to college in Golden and I loved it. I'm sure it's changed quite a bit since then, but it had the feeling of being its own town rather than just a sprawling suburb but you could be in downtown Denver in less than 30 minutes so there was access to all the city stuff. Also there are hiking trails galore and you can head west on 70 and be in the mountains in no time so if outdoor activities are your thing, that's a great place to be. One big change since I lived there is the light rail that takes you right to Union Station.

My experience isn't super recent, so I can't speak to affordability, but for quality of life I would move back there in a skinny minute.

[the_fixer]

If you are younger and don't have a family, and don't plan to have one in the immediate next few years. Do not move to Highlands Ranch or Littleton you will regret it! I mean, if you love HOA's, strip malls, and same-ness then by all means move to the suburbs. But, I get the feeling you're younger and still looking for where you live to provide interest, joy, and things to do, not just a house and a yard. But maybe I'm reading you wrong.

City Park West would actually be a good area, but there's not many apartments there or public transport. You should be able to get a steal on an apartment right now since they've been building them like crazy at the same time as a lot of people are moving into SFHs. I think your $1200 all inclusive is a little tight though and willdrastically limit your options. Rent is just high here. Most first timers to the city move to Capital Hill. It's got cheap, older apartments and is near parks, but has no parking. This sounds like your best bet right now near your price range, but maybe slightly higher. The "luxury" new build high rises in Five Points and Uptown (yes, there's something like 45+ named neighborhoods here) are going to be $1600-$2000/month. I bet they are running 1 month free specials though due to vacancies.

I'm not trying to downplay others experiences. But to counter here is my own: The people without housing generally do not bother anyone. Unless you are disturbed by pacing and loud ranting.  Yes, crime is up this year but isn't it everywhere? But you still don't want to live near a camp if you can help it. Biking downtown is not an issue at all, there's tons of bike lanes and and I actually prefer it to driving downtown. I used to ride my bike to work ~4 miles across the city and could snag a bike lane the whole way. There's strength in numbers here, drivers expect bikers and scooters downtown. So your no car plan is totally possible here, except I'm a wimp and drive in the winter.

Just to be clear I was not suggesting Highlands Ranch as a place to move for the OP I was just using it as an example of how the light rail can open up areas that might be more affordable within the commute parameters and again that you do not need to be in a big city center to have walk ability.

Personally if the job is truly in downtown I would just suck it up and pay the higher price to be close as it will save money in many ways.


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[blurkraken22]

If you are younger and don't have a family, and don't plan to have one in the immediate next few years. Do not move to Highlands Ranch or Littleton you will regret it! I mean, if you love HOA's, strip malls, and same-ness then by all means move to the suburbs. But, I get the feeling you're younger and still looking for where you live to provide interest, joy, and things to do, not just a house and a yard. But maybe I'm reading you wrong.

City Park West would actually be a good area, but there's not many apartments there or public transport. You should be able to get a steal on an apartment right now since they've been building them like crazy at the same time as a lot of people are moving into SFHs. I think your $1200 all inclusive is a little tight though and willdrastically limit your options. Rent is just high here. Most first timers to the city move to Capital Hill. It's got cheap, older apartments and is near parks, but has no parking. This sounds like your best bet right now near your price range, but maybe slightly higher. The "luxury" new build high rises in Five Points and Uptown (yes, there's something like 45+ named neighborhoods here) are going to be $1600-$2000/month. I bet they are running 1 month free specials though due to vacancies.

I'm not trying to downplay others experiences. But to counter here is my own: The people without housing generally do not bother anyone. Unless you are disturbed by pacing and loud ranting.  Yes, crime is up this year but isn't it everywhere? But you still don't want to live near a camp if you can help it. Biking downtown is not an issue at all, there's tons of bike lanes and and I actually prefer it to driving downtown. I used to ride my bike to work ~4 miles across the city and could snag a bike lane the whole way. There's strength in numbers here, drivers expect bikers and scooters downtown. So your no car plan is totally possible here, except I'm a wimp and drive in the winter.

He he he. We're on the same page. I'm not that young though. Rather, I'm coming from 6 years of living in urban areas in 3 different cities and loving it. Now I'm starting to feel pretty strongly that not driving is central to my way of life. On fitness: When your normal daily activities cause you to get 6-10k steps, doing some sort of intentional exercise is more of a bonus than a requirement. I do body weight exercises in public parks. I run. I haven't paid gym membership fees in about 10 years. For getting around, I walk to the supermarket, I walk to nearby eateries, I ride my bike to the park, and everything else is bus and train. On living spaces: in Europe we learned that when the city is your front yard, you don't need a giant apartment. People do just fine with a basic 1BR apartment for a couple. It encourages you to go outside, enjoy the parks, and hang out in the city. [Insert rant here about open-container laws in America--we used to really enjoy a bottle of wine at the park.] It works for me. I like it.

The no-car lifestyle seems like it's already challenging to replicate in America, but strikes me as damn near impossible in the suburbs. In that sense, my ideal city is one where they charge enormous car ownership/road use taxes and public transit is cheap, because it means that the city is designed with the assumption that most people do not drive. As a pedestrian and transit user, I'm the normal one, not one of the lower class deprived who have no better options. I'm also thinking that the cost of a $200 monthly transit pass to commute from the suburbs could just as easily be spent on rent, depending on which lifestyle you prefer.

Just to be clear I was not suggesting Highlands Ranch as a place to move for the OP I was just using it as an example of how the light rail can open up areas that might be more affordable within the commute parameters and again that you do not need to be in a big city center to have walk ability.

Personally if the job is truly in downtown I would just suck it up and pay the higher price to be close as it will save money in many ways.

Yes, the direction this thread is taking seems to be pointing more and more toward downtown. I respect your defense of the walkability of the burbs. It looks to me like much of the decision hinges on whether or not one expects to own a car. In the city center parking is an extra cost and then there's questions of insurance and safety of the vehicle. On the other hand, when living downtown, if I don't own a car, how do I get to the mountains for camping, skiing, hiking (with gear, of course)? What's the cost of getting 2 people out of the city? From the right suburb with a car, just hop in the car and go.

Recreation Questions
*  How's Denver for inline skating (rollerblading for those who don't mind a brand name)?
*  How do the urban dwellers get out of the city to take advantage of the great outdoors opportunities?
*  Other transportation options: Motorcycle? Park car out in the burbs?

Thanks for the great discussion so far. :D

[BuildingFrugalHabits]

I would avoid downtown and live in one of the cities on the west side of town (Lakewood, Edgewater, Wheatridge or maybe Arvada) and bike commute.  From the west side of town, I can bike almost anywhere in the metro area using side streets and/or bike paths.  Walkability depends what you are looking for.  Its not hard to find a place within walking distance of a grocery store, park or open space.  The close-in neighborhoods around Sloan's lake have bars and restaurants and the W line isn't too far away.  Going further west, I think the crime is less.  I see so many posts about people getting their bikes stolen and I know a few friends closer to Denver who had their homes burglarized so check crime statistics for the areas you are considering.   

[blurkraken22]

I would avoid downtown and live in one of the cities on the west side of town (Lakewood, Edgewater, Wheatridge or maybe Arvada) and bike commute.  From the west side of town, I can bike almost anywhere in the metro area using side streets and/or bike paths.  Walkability depends what you are looking for.  Its not hard to find a place within walking distance of a grocery store, park or open space.  The close-in neighborhoods around Sloan's lake have bars and restaurants and the W line isn't too far away.  Going further west, I think the crime is less.  I see so many posts about people getting their bikes stolen and I know a few friends closer to Denver who had their homes burglarized so check crime statistics for the areas you are considering.

On the suburban walkability front: it has been suggested in several posts now that it's theoretically possible to live a walk-only and car-free lifestyle in the near suburbs, but nobody has yet posted telling me that's how they live. I would feel more confident if I could hear someone's first hand experience trying to live like that.

[the_fixer]

I would avoid downtown and live in one of the cities on the west side of town (Lakewood, Edgewater, Wheatridge or maybe Arvada) and bike commute.  From the west side of town, I can bike almost anywhere in the metro area using side streets and/or bike paths.  Walkability depends what you are looking for.  Its not hard to find a place within walking distance of a grocery store, park or open space.  The close-in neighborhoods around Sloan's lake have bars and restaurants and the W line isn't too far away.  Going further west, I think the crime is less.  I see so many posts about people getting their bikes stolen and I know a few friends closer to Denver who had their homes burglarized so check crime statistics for the areas you are considering.

On the suburban walkability front: it has been suggested in several posts now that it's theoretically possible to live a walk-only and car-free lifestyle in the near suburbs, but nobody has yet posted telling me that's how they live. I would feel more confident if I could hear someone's first hand experience trying to live like that.

I think the reality is that having a car is really convenient and most people including the majority of people living in downtown Denver even have a car (even MMM). Most people want to get out of town from time to time, go to the mountains, get invited to a BBQ across town by a friend or co-worker, need to visits family and so forth. Of course if someone wanted to go car free I think it would be possible either place especially with uber, rideshares and public transit that we have now days.     

An example

Prior to the pandemic my wife went over a year without driving our car other than to go see her dad in a town 80 miles away and her quarterly DR appointments, we live a few blocks from the bike path that runs along HWY 36 and 1/2 mile from a major RTD stop that will take you all over the metro area with a rapid transit option to boulder or downtown Denver. In the summer she would take her bike (11 miles) to work and in the winter the buss (Our neighbor works in downtown and takes the buss). She could have taken an uber or buss to her DR appointments and rented a car for the times she visited her dad.

get to downtown in 20 - 30 mins from hwy 36
flatiron flyer (schedule is messed up right now due to Covid)
https://www.rtd-denver.com/services/flatiron-flyer

Within a 2 mile radius we have the following available to us and ride our bikes to most but someone that wanted to walk could do that just as easily.

Walmart
2 Safeway stores
Kingsoopers
Walgreens
DR's offices, Dentist offices
2 movie theaters
100+ bars, coffee shops and restaurant's
every shopping store you would ever need
multiple walking paths (paved and unpaved) bike paths (paved and unpaved)
multiple parks
lakes with picnic facilities
all of the food deliveries cover our area as well as amazon prime now
Buss stop that takes us directly to the airport

I can honestly not think of one thing that we NEED that is not in that 2 - 2 1/2 mile radius and with working from home / pandemic I only use our car every couple of weeks now to pickup groceries.

There are many little pockets like this in the Denver metro area look along 36, I-25 and Santa Fe where the light rail or major buss stops are located.

[joe189man]

i had a friend who owned a home in Edgewater and rode his bike downtown to work, i think he liked it. he was on the west side of sloans lake, there are homeless everywhere over there

if you want to go car free, follow the light rails to the stations, and look for apartments and grocery stores next to them

if you don't mind being out a bit from down town and light rail commuting in, try the arapahoe and I-25 train stop(edge of greenwood village and centennial), there are lots of apartments around that exit, as well as grocery stores, a library, and a few bars if that's your thing

down town sucks and is full of homeless

[thesis]

I'm not a huge fan of downtown. It's fine during the day, but even 16th street mall, one of the busiest streets downtown, tends to be kinda sketch once the sun goes down. Even during the day once, some extremely drunk guy (Sunday. Afternoon!) started babbling to me before moving on to somebody else. Some of the big parks downtown have always had groups of loitering people, which always made me really uncomfortable.

Worse of all, though, is driving downtown. Absolute mess, and even if you have Google on your side, there's a very large chance that the roads you've been routed along will be undergoing construction and will totally jack up your day. Good luck finding parking.

I suspect all this may be worse in larger cities, I wouldn't really know, but I stay away from downtown, honestly. But I also live in the 'burbs. I otherwise really like Colorado, but since the pandemic started, many people have nothing to do and are hogging the hiking trails. Places I used to go that were empty on a Saturday and now full of cars. Really makes me angry.

Colorado saw rapid population increase over a 5 year span. It's cooled off over the past few years, but everyone who's lived here very long can feel it. More people, more traffic, more crowding, more crazies. It is, however, still a good place for jobs, and the mountains are great if you can find a way to avoid the crowds flocking there.

Just one person's thoughts.

[the_fixer]

Colorado saw rapid population increase over a 5 year span. It's cooled off over the past few years, but everyone who's lived here very long can feel it. More people, more traffic, more crowding, more crazies. It is, however, still a good place for jobs, and the mountains are great if you can find a way to avoid the crowds flocking there.

Just one person's thoughts.

I think most people that have been in Colorado more than a few years feel this way.

My wife and I were both born and raised here and we have said multiple times that we should look into moving somewhere else.

We used to ski... not anymore traffic is horrible and we are always mad at spending so much to sit in traffic and make a few runs.

We used to go to Rocky Mountain National park once or twice a year not anymore need reservations and they jacked up the price

We used to drive up to Breckinridge in the summer and take the free chair lift and walk around town now you get to golden and traffic is stopped with signs saying to expect 2+ hour delays to the tunnel

We used to take impromptu camping trips and head up on the Thursday night and stay the weekend now you have to reserve a site 6 months in advance for any campground with stuff to do

On and on everything is so packed now days

Ugggh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[therethere]

This thread seems to be just a discussion of suburbs versus city living. Which is just personal preference and not really specific to Denver. City people generally put up with a lot more crap, it's just the nature of the beast as I'm sure the OP knows. Personally, an HOA inspection letter would make me more angry than seeing that someone went through my car to take my loose change. To each their own.

The better commutable light rail stops to me are the ones off I-25/broadway (C/D line until ~Englewood), Welton St corridor (L line), and the W line (west to Golden). Most of the light rail stations further south you need to drive to the station and then take the light rail in, and can take just as long as driving the entire way. You actually may want to look at the I-25 and S Broadway area. It's a little away from main downtown, but has its own new light rail stop and gobs of brand new apartment buildings that will probably be cheaper due to vacancy.

I've parked on the street for 10 years with no real issues. I don't drive around downtown (you'd be silly to) or for errands at all really,  so a car isn't a must. But if you're already paying the premium to move to CO, and like the outdoors, I think it's worth the extra money to have a car of some sort to take full advantage of the mountains on your timetable. If parking is your only hesitancy, pay for a parking spot and get a cheap vehicle. If the car is 9 years or older, registration is only $100 a year in CO.

OP also already has a job. So why even bother complaining about population growth? OP IS the population growth! I agree, it's drastically changed even in the 10 years I've been here. But it's kind of a moot point.

OP you got any other specific questions?

[LaserLemon]

I've lived in the Capitol Hill area for 5 years now. I own a condo here and LOVE the area. Here's my two cents:

Affordability:
My mortgage is 50% of my expenses, but I prioritized living in this location and don't regret it. Aside from housing my expenses are the same as they would be in the suburbs. Sounds like you are interested in the city life, and this is a great area for it.

Walkability:
I own a car, but almost exclusively drive it for work purposes (need to visit clients and public transit/ biking is not practical). I walk or bike to groceries, multiple parks, restaurants, climbing gym, library, downtown festivals (when we had those), etc. One thing to keep in mind since you mentioned entertaining is that some apartments only have street parking available.

Safety:
I think it's important to actually get down to specifics when talking about the safety of an area. Homelessness is a fact of city life. Generally the people living on the streets are minding their own business, and as long as you use common sense you and they can coexist. I've heard a lot of friends who live in the suburbs comment on the "protests" going on downtown and how "unsafe" the area is. There were two weeks of protests back in May, and it has been quiet since. During that time many of the city government building windows were boarded up. Since most of the city employees are still working from home the boards remain. I admit this gives the Civic Center area a look of instability but I do not feel unsafe walking the area. All that to say I'd recommend checking out a neighborhood for yourself, and if walking around a city at night makes you feel unsafe then definitely check out the suburbs.

To answer your Recreation Questions:
-Inline skating for transportation might be difficult, but for exercise the Speer bike path is great. Washington Park also has a loop around it with dedicated bike/ rollerblade lanes.
-As others have mentioned, skiing is great. There's a ski train that leaves from Union Station in the winter, but I usually carpool with friends. Same for hiking.

[blurkraken22]

I can honestly not think of one thing that we NEED that is not in that 2 - 2 1/2 mile radius and with working from home / pandemic I only use our car every couple of weeks now to pickup groceries.

There are many little pockets like this in the Denver metro area look along 36, I-25 and Santa Fe where the light rail or major buss stops are located.

Exactly the info I was looking for RE suburban living. Thanks! This gives me confidence that there's a viable fallback if I don't like what I find in the city.

This thread seems to be just a discussion of suburbs versus city living. Which is just personal preference and not really specific to Denver. City people generally put up with a lot more crap, it's just the nature of the beast as I'm sure the OP knows. Personally, an HOA inspection letter would make me more angry than seeing that someone went through my car to take my loose change. To each their own.

The better commutable light rail stops to me are the ones off I-25/broadway (C/D line until ~Englewood), Welton St corridor (L line), and the W line (west to Golden). Most of the light rail stations further south you need to drive to the station and then take the light rail in, and can take just as long as driving the entire way. You actually may want to look at the I-25 and S Broadway area. It's a little away from main downtown, but has its own new light rail stop and gobs of brand new apartment buildings that will probably be cheaper due to vacancy.

I've parked on the street for 10 years with no real issues. I don't drive around downtown (you'd be silly to) or for errands at all really,  so a car isn't a must. But if you're already paying the premium to move to CO, and like the outdoors, I think it's worth the extra money to have a car of some sort to take full advantage of the mountains on your timetable. If parking is your only hesitancy, pay for a parking spot and get a cheap vehicle. If the car is 9 years or older, registration is only $100 a year in CO.

OP also already has a job. So why even bother complaining about population growth? OP IS the population growth! I agree, it's drastically changed even in the 10 years I've been here. But it's kind of a moot point.

OP you got any other specific questions?

My personal preference is for city living and I consider myself experienced in that area. I would consider the suburbs if it would save me a boatload of money, but that doesn't seem to be the case. If costs are similar, I will definitely check out the city first.

Will look at those areas when I finally make it to town and start looking at apartments. I can probably manage street parking, but it's good to know there are options if that gets too troublesome.

Populations growth: sorry for making the place more crowded. :o

Question
*  Any suggestions on temporary housing while I get my bearings and look around at different neighborhoods? In the past I've used vacation rentals.

Affordability:
My mortgage is 50% of my expenses, but I prioritized living in this location and don't regret it. Aside from housing my expenses are the same as they would be in the suburbs. Sounds like you are interested in the city life, and this is a great area for it.

Walkability:
I own a car, but almost exclusively drive it for work purposes (need to visit clients and public transit/ biking is not practical). I walk or bike to groceries, multiple parks, restaurants, climbing gym, library, downtown festivals (when we had those), etc. One thing to keep in mind since you mentioned entertaining is that some apartments only have street parking available.

Safety:
I think it's important to actually get down to specifics when talking about the safety of an area. Homelessness is a fact of city life. Generally the people living on the streets are minding their own business, and as long as you use common sense you and they can coexist. I've heard a lot of friends who live in the suburbs comment on the "protests" going on downtown and how "unsafe" the area is. There were two weeks of protests back in May, and it has been quiet since. During that time many of the city government building windows were boarded up. Since most of the city employees are still working from home the boards remain. I admit this gives the Civic Center area a look of instability but I do not feel unsafe walking the area. All that to say I'd recommend checking out a neighborhood for yourself, and if walking around a city at night makes you feel unsafe then definitely check out the suburbs.

To answer your Recreation Questions:
-Inline skating for transportation might be difficult, but for exercise the Speer bike path is great. Washington Park also has a loop around it with dedicated bike/ rollerblade lanes.
-As others have mentioned, skiing is great. There's a ski train that leaves from Union Station in the winter, but I usually carpool with friends. Same for hiking.

-My rent is over 50% of my expenses in this city. I would like to get that a little lower if possible. That looks feasible in Denver.
-I do a lot of urban inline skating. I'm wondering if that's going to attract a lot of unwelcome attention. I think the sport is growing in popularity and I would be pretty surprised if there's no community of urban skaters in Denver.

[economista]

My husband and I used to live in an area that sounds ideal for you. In Englewood (one of the southern suburbs) there is a lightrail station and it takes around 20 minutes to get from that station to downtown. He used to work downtown and I occasionally went into our downtown office and the light rail was really quick and easy. Right at that light rail stop is an apartment complex called "Alexan City Center" and our apartment was steps away from the light rail stop. Within a short 10 minute walk there is the library, a grocery store, a walmart, many restaurants, etc. It was the most walkable area DH has ever lived.

Unfortunately, you do pay for that walkability. Our apartment was a 2br 2ba and 700-900 ft2 (I can't quite remember) but when we moved out 2 years ago we were paying $2100 per month in rent. My husband is blind and cannot drive, therefore we always have to live in very walkable neighborhoods close to the lightrail. We've found that there is an extreme premium put on rentals close to the light rail stops. Another thing to look out for is that there are a lot of apartments near all of the light rail stops (Denver has a huge transit-oriented development program) but not all of them have the OTHER amenities that make the area totally walkable. For us, that spot in Englewood was perfect, except for the cost.

Now we live in Lakewood and prices are a bit lower - our mortgage for a 1500ft2 townhouse that we purchased before it was built is less than our rent was in Englewood. We are a bit further from the light rail (a 5 minute drive or 10 minute bike ride from the Federal Center Stop) but we are in another totally walkable area. There is a grocery store 2 blocks away, a Walgreens 1 block away, MANY restaurants within walking distance, etc. Once again, it is <30 minutes to get to downtown once you are on the light rail.

[wbarnett]

On the suburban walkability front: it has been suggested in several posts now that it's theoretically possible to live a walk-only and car-free lifestyle in the near suburbs, but nobody has yet posted telling me that's how they live. I would feel more confident if I could hear someone's first hand experience trying to live like that.

I live in central Arvada. My wife and I only have one car (with 3 kids), and I have been working downtown for 2 years without ever driving. I bike to the Olde Town Station about 3.5 miles on a mix of creek trails and streets with dedicated bike lanes, take the train to Union Station, and ride across downtown one mile my office (when there isn't a pandemic). The entire commute, door-to-door, is 48 mins if I time it perfectly. I can bike the entire distance in 56 minutes on a clear day. The train ride from Olde Town Arvada to Union Station is ~22 minutes. In my neighborhood, there are two King Soopers within 2 miles, and a Sprouts 3 miles away. It's definitely possible to live car-free in Arvada. Really nice apartments along the G-line go for as low as $1300/month for 2 bedrooms. And Olde Town has some really great restaurants and bars.

As others have mentioned, owning a car is really great for mountain escapes or trips around the Front Range. And there are certainly days where riding a bike is a slog (the glass half full term would be adventure). But by and large, many of the immediate Denver suburbs are bike-friendly, and the public transportation system is very much oriented toward getting people to Union Station / downtown.

Let me know if you want more specifics, we can chat privately.

[blurkraken22]

Hi everyone. Thanks so much for all your advice. I wanted to give an update... my wife's career took precedence over mine this year and our target location changed from Denver to Cleveland. I'm crying inside, but she's very happy with her job in the CLE. Thank you again. I felt like I was starting to know Denver from all your experiences.

[Monocle Money Mouth]

Hi everyone. Thanks so much for all your advice. I wanted to give an update... my wife's career took precedence over mine this year and our target location changed from Denver to Cleveland. I'm crying inside, but she's very happy with her job in the CLE. Thank you again. I felt like I was starting to know Denver from all your experiences.

Cleveland isn't all bad. The cost of living is dirt cheap and we still have a lot of amenities from our robber baron past. The park system is pretty decent too if you like outdoorsy stuff. The natural beauty is more subtle than what you see out west. No 2000 year old trees or snow capped mountain peeks, but if you know where to look, there are some nice spots.

[Sultan58]

Colorado saw rapid population increase over a 5 year span. It's cooled off over the past few years, but everyone who's lived here very long can feel it. More people, more traffic, more crowding, more crazies. It is, however, still a good place for jobs, and the mountains are great if you can find a way to avoid the crowds flocking there.

Just one person's thoughts.

I think most people that have been in Colorado more than a few years feel this way.



My wife and I were both born and raised here and we have said multiple times that we should look into moving somewhere else.

We used to ski... not anymore traffic is horrible and we are always mad at spending so much to sit in traffic and make a few runs.

We used to go to Rocky Mountain National park once or twice a year not anymore need reservations and they jacked up the price

We used to drive up to Breckinridge in the summer and take the free chair lift and walk around town now you get to golden and traffic is stopped with signs saying to expect 2+ hour delays to the tunnel

We used to take impromptu camping trips and head up on the Thursday night and stay the weekend now you have to reserve a site 6 months in advance for any campground with stuff to do

On and on everything is so packed now days

Ugggh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I gotta agree....a few years ago I was seriously considering retiring there.....then along came the pot boom, the even greater liberal influx from Cali.....and everything you mentioned above.

Western Colorado would be the only part of the state I would consider now......Denver and Colo Springs are ruined and priced out.