Author Topic: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"  (Read 212982 times)

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 23128
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Coworker got her positive test back on Tuesday and is subbing in a classroom today (5 days). She only wears cloth masks.

If the coworker didn't have symptoms, that would be fully in line with the CDC's current recommendations:

"Ending isolation if you did NOT have symptoms:
End isolation after at least 5 full days after your positive [covid] test."

- https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/quarantine-isolation.html

Villanelle

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6653
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #651 on: January 21, 2022, 01:34:34 PM »
In 2016 and, then, again in 2018, I got the flu really bad. Since then, I've started getting the yearly flu shot. Somehow, though, I managed to make it through the first 50 years of my life, without ever getting a single flu shot.

I noticed that not even a single dead person from the estimated ~20M flu deaths over the past 50 years has rebutted your claim yet.  Check-mate you pro-vaccine idiots.
First time I ever got a flu shot was when I was 50 years old. Since then, I've gotten vaccinated every year. Not 'claiming' anything. Just stating a fact. What would there be to 'rebut'?

I believe that FrugalNacho was trying to point out the survivor bias in the statement he responded to.
Maybe when you and FrugalNacho were growing up it was normal to get flu shots every year. I honestly never knew anyone who ever got vaccinated for the flu, until I was well into my thirties and had a friend who worked as an ER nurse. My not getting a flu vaccine was never a political statement. It certainly wasn't because I thought anyone who got a flu shot was a 'pro-vaccine idiot.' It just never occurred to me that a flu vaccine was something that a young, healthy person, who didn't work in healthcare, needed. Right around the time I turned 50, I got the flu pretty bad, a couple of times, and that's when I started getting the yearly shot. Probably, I'll keep getting it every year for the rest of my life. If I can avoid it, I don't want to get that sick again.

I don't recall every getting them as a child (though I might have, as part of annual check ups and other doctor visits), but since my college days (so for the last 20+ years, I've definitely seen it publicized as something that one should do.  I can't say I've had one every year, but certainly more years than not.  I wonder if this is a regional thing, or more of a social circle thing. 

My spouse is in the military and the bases typically do a flu-show "exercise" every year.  He is required to get one, and they make it pretty easy for families as well, so since we got married, it's definitely been front and center.  But even before then, the grocery stores and drug stores, and college campus, always had signs out, heavily advertising the shots. 

As far as I know, I've never had the flu, though admittedly I don't go to the doctor for many things that it seems other people do, so I may have dismissed a minor to moderate flu as a bad cold. 

Maybe one god thing to come out of Covid will be more people getting flu shots?  Maybe??
 

GodlessCommie

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 969
  • Location: NoVA
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #652 on: January 21, 2022, 01:36:57 PM »
I'm not sure it made a big difference in how hard it hit us, for example, vs. Florida.

California: 0.25 daily deaths per 100,000 residents
Florida: 0.32 daily deaths per 100,000 residents. That right after the massive delta wave that Florida had, with many people having residual immunity.

Back of the napkin calculation tells me that CA saves 28 people each day who would have died in Florida. Sounds like a significant difference to me.

StarBright

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3270
Coworker got her positive test back on Tuesday and is subbing in a classroom today (5 days). She only wears cloth masks.

If the coworker didn't have symptoms, that would be fully in line with the CDC's current recommendations:

"Ending isolation if you did NOT have symptoms:
End isolation after at least 5 full days after your positive [covid] test."

- https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/quarantine-isolation.html

Yeah - I wrote the 5 days just to show that she was at least following that guideline :) But so much of the guidelines are also sort of unclear - like what is a symptom (a fever?, a runny nose?) and if the school doesn't follow some CDC guidelines (like masks), do people feel the need to follow others?

She just "has a little sniffle", is what she told my mom. And she doesn't consider that a symptom. But she also thought it was fine to go to a concert after she went for a covid test, when she had COVID positive people at home (and was also experiencing symptoms). 

I guess it was sort of good that she didn't feel well, or she wouldn't have bothered to get tested at all and would have been at school on Monday, maskless, despite her exposure.

As masks aren't required at the school, I'd bet dollars to donuts she takes her mask off anytime she can get away with it (I say this, because I know the lady :) ).

I cringe for the people that send their kids to that school and am so thankful that our school reinstituted a mask requirement when our cases started doubling week over week.

seattlecyclone

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7254
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Seattle, WA
    • My blog
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #654 on: January 21, 2022, 02:19:02 PM »
I'm not sure it made a big difference in how hard it hit us, for example, vs. Florida.

California: 0.25 daily deaths per 100,000 residents
Florida: 0.32 daily deaths per 100,000 residents. That right after the massive delta wave that Florida had, with many people having residual immunity.

Back of the napkin calculation tells me that CA saves 28 people each day who would have died in Florida. Sounds like a significant difference to me.

I found those same numbers on this list of death rates by state over the past week. California and Florida are both toward the very low end of this list, and both states have rates less than a third of any states currently in the top 10. Given the incredible variation between states overall, and the relatively small variation between California and Florida specifically, I'd hesitate to attribute much of the difference between these two states to whatever mitigation measures the populations have in place. This omicron variant is peaking in different places at different times and I'd guess that's responsible for much more of the variation here than local customs around mask wearing.

HPstache

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2858
  • Age: 37
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #655 on: January 21, 2022, 02:21:12 PM »
Just wanted to remind everyone that the beginning of this topic was, like, 90% "screw everything, I'm going back to normal".

Now that I've had it / currently have it, I believe it's time to go back to normal even more strongly to be honest.  And I will be starting Wednesday
« Last Edit: January 21, 2022, 02:24:46 PM by v8rx7guy »

GodlessCommie

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 969
  • Location: NoVA
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #656 on: January 21, 2022, 02:25:09 PM »
Now that I've had it / currently have it, I believe it's time to go back to normal even more strongly to be honest

Survivorship bias.

HPstache

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2858
  • Age: 37
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #657 on: January 21, 2022, 02:27:29 PM »
Now that I've had it / currently have it, I believe it's time to go back to normal even more strongly to be honest

Survivorship bias.

I don't care what logical fallacy you think it is, this pandemic is over for me.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 17497
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #658 on: January 21, 2022, 02:43:03 PM »
Now that I've had it / currently have it, I believe it's time to go back to normal even more strongly to be honest

Survivorship bias.

I don't care what logical fallacy you think it is, this pandemic is over for me.

I sincerely hope that you are spared from getting it again.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20742
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #659 on: January 21, 2022, 02:50:33 PM »
Now that I've had it / currently have it, I believe it's time to go back to normal even more strongly to be honest

Survivorship bias.

I don't care what logical fallacy you think it is, this pandemic is over for me.

I sincerely hope that you are spared from getting it again.

And don't give it to people more vulnerable than you.

Villanelle

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6653
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #660 on: January 21, 2022, 02:57:41 PM »
My answer to "where I stand on living with Covid" has shifted slightly, as it seems that I am probably on the list of those with Long Covid. (According to the doctor, there isn't really a formal definition of Long Covid, other than just basically "some lingering symptoms lasting weeks or longer after the illness has passed and the infection cleared.")

That sounds dramatic, but really it is more weird and irritating than anything. Now, I didn't actually get a Covid test when I was sick. They were starting to be hard to find and I didn't think knowing for sure was actionable, since I could easily stay home and isolate.  So I won't be on any actual accounting, if there was such a thing.  But I was pretty sure it was Covid, and my doctor thinks it was as well (after the fact) based on the timing, symptoms, and the Weird Thing, which is inflammation-related and Covid is known for being inflame-y. 

It seems I have dermatographia, aka 'skin writing'.  It's an inflammation reaction, most commonly caused as the result of an infection. Can last weeks or months.  Basically, my skin gets really itchy (like the worst mosquito bites ever; it is sort of a hot itch, different than just a usually itch one experiences).  If I scratch it--not hard, just like one would for a normal itch--or even just bump it, there is a shooting fire under my skin.  Like someone has injected burning oil and it is spreading.  But the really freaky part is that a few minutes later, angry, hot, red welts appear in the exact pattern of the contact.  I can run a fingernail fairly gently over my arm in the shape of letters and 5 minutes later, I'll have an angry-looking red word appear on my arm in raised letters.  It will also hurt.

I was sick for about a week, and this started at the end of that week.

Thankfully, it has been well-managed with Zyrtec, though my sense is that the Zyrtec is lasting less and less time, and where I used to be able to take every other day, now at the end of the day, just before the next dose, I'm feeling itchy again and occasionally get the welts (which Doc says are a form of hives). That's a bit concerning because without the Zyrtec, it is entirely miserable. Like, I don't quite know how I'd function.  But we aren't to that point and I'm hoping we never get there, and that if we do, there is something else or a higher dose of Zyrtec's active ingredient, or something else. I'm also taking Quercetin, a supplement known to help with inflammation, suggested by my doc as a "can't hurt" thing. 

Really, I'm fine.  As long as the Zyrtec continues to work, it's just a minor annoyance, really.  But maybe it is also a reminder that there are so many things with this disease that we just don't know or understand.  And that "very few healthy people are dying" isn't the only factor we need to consider.

(FTR, I am fully vaxxed and boosted. I got sick before the booster's full efficacy was in effect, if that matters.)
OMG. I have  Dermatographia too! As far as I know I never had COVID. The hives started a week after my booster shot. Initial case of hives was horrible, even my ears swelled. I went to Urgent Care and was given a shot of Benedryl and Steroids and then a week of steroids. As soon as I finished the steroids they started back up again. I am managing with Zyrtec plus a Benadryl on the nights it gets bad. It’s been almost 2 months and I’m just starting to see long periods without outbreaks of miserable hives.

Thanks for sharing this.  It does make me feel slightly better to know I'm not the only one, but I'm sorry you are dealing with this, too.

Interesting that you mention yours happening after vaccination.  I wonder if this is a known/recorded side effect of the vaccine.  I actually got sick about 9 days after my booster, and the dermatographia started toward the end of my illness, probably on about day 5 (so ~11 days after booster).  I mentioned all that timing to the doctor, but I was mostly focusing on the fact that I'd been sick, not the booster, so it is hard to say whether she dismissed the booster because I did, or if she was just fairy certain, based on what I said, that it was more related to the illness.  I was still pretty sick when it started.  At first I thought maybe I had randomly gotten bed bugs or something, because I'd spend nearly all my time in bed when it started happening. I though the itchiness might be from bites, and the welts might be the bites themselves, but it soon became clear that wasn't the issue.  Point being, I was still sick, but on the tail end of it, when this started. 

I'm not yet 2 months out from my first symptom of the dermatographia, so I'm hopefully that mine will follow a similar pattern to yours and start easing at that point (or earlier!).  I'm going to stay on the daily Zyrtec for another few weeks at least, and then maybe take a short break to see if it is still A Thing, unless I can already tell that based on the breakthrough symptoms at the tail end of the Zyrtec.

GodlessCommie

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 969
  • Location: NoVA
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #661 on: January 21, 2022, 02:59:07 PM »
I don't care what logical fallacy you think it is, this pandemic is over for me.

Note, once again, the laser-sharp focus on "me".

sui generis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3104
  • she/her
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #662 on: January 21, 2022, 03:21:01 PM »
I'm not sure it made a big difference in how hard it hit us, for example, vs. Florida.

California: 0.25 daily deaths per 100,000 residents
Florida: 0.32 daily deaths per 100,000 residents. That right after the massive delta wave that Florida had, with many people having residual immunity.

Back of the napkin calculation tells me that CA saves 28 people each day who would have died in Florida. Sounds like a significant difference to me.

To whatever that is attributable (as seattlecyclone noted) that is great and I'm grateful to see it.  But if that does indeed confirm that those are the kinds of precautions we should have been keeping in place the whole time that are being referenced here, I just want to a) point out that that still wouldn't have stopped the Omicron surge across the planet, so we would still be dealing with surges and recessions and etc.  Every life saved during a surge or any time is good but I just wouldn't want to get back into any magical thinking about this not happening if we had only been a little better about wearing masks.  The kind of magical thinking that I, at least, was guilty of when I thought about a year ago right now that COVID would be under control by Jan 21, 2021. 

And b) that I guess I have to change my answer on this thread about "getting back to normal"?  I'm pretty sure I framed it that I had largely gotten back to normal in my initial post here but I've been doing all the precautions I described above as I got back to normal.  So some definitional vagueness may be happening here, but what I, and to be honest what I got the sense that the vast majority of folks on this thread were talking about when we said we were getting back to normal in a lot of ways, was just doing things like seeing friends and family, getting haircuts, going to events, etc.  That doing those things with a vaxx card in hand and a mask over our faces still counted for us as "back to normal".  So if that is actually not "back to normal" because it is still "taking precautions" then that's all well and good, but my sense of this thread at the beginning was definitely not that 90% of people were saying screw everything, and that most people were still taking many precautions even if they simultaneously characterized that in their minds as "getting back to normal".  The few who literally said screw everything were widely treated with disdain or were ignored.

Cranky

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3842
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #663 on: January 21, 2022, 03:42:04 PM »
I’ve been pondering what sort of “normal” we’re expecting. Things always change, and we can’t go back in time, so maybe… it’s never going to be 2019 again and it might be less stressful to accept that the future is just going to be different than the Before Times.

I really don’t care what decisions people make for themselves - if you really have to eat in a restaurant, that’s your decision. I really don’t understand the general unkindness of refusing a vaccine and refusing to wear a mask in the grocery store.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2022, 05:47:58 PM by Cranky »

HPstache

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2858
  • Age: 37
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #664 on: January 21, 2022, 04:07:33 PM »
Which precautions do you want to keep?

School closures, business closures, and preventing gatherings do a lot of damage to people when they're in place and not absolutely necessary.  Mask mandates make more sense if we can do away with pointless security pageantry mask wearing rules (wearing a mask to walk to a table in a restaurant, then taking it off when you sit down to eat, for example).

Why are we doing this again? We went through it 10 times already.

I am genuinely curious to know as well.  I feel like you are the cheerleader of an opinion that you think everyone here shares, when in reality they don't.... or as pointed out a few posts up, maybe there is a disconnect in definitions.  You said "90%" of people in this thread were like "screw everything we're going back to normal" according to you, and now this Omi wave is now somehow evidence that we should not be doing those activities.  Which restrictions would you like back?  Do you want full lockdowns again?  School to go back to online only?  Restaurants to close?  Shut down air travel?  Cancelling Dentist appointments?  Stop having in person events?  Starting cutting our own hair again?

Michael in ABQ

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2626
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #665 on: January 21, 2022, 05:01:45 PM »
I’ve been pondering what sort of “normal” we’re expecting. Things always change, and we can go back in time, so maybe… it’s never going to be 2019 again and it might be less stressful to accept that the future is just going to be different than the Before Times.

I really don’t care what decisions people make for themselves - if you really have to eat in a restaurant, that’s your decision. I really don’t understand the general unkindness of refusing a vaccine and refusing to wear a mask in the grocery store.

No masks unless you're actively sick/coughing - similar to what an ER/Doctor's Office would have asked you to do in 2019 or earlier - or you're immuno-compromised (undergoing cancer treatment, etc.)

Less social pressure to come to work/school while sick and more social pressure to stay at home instead of going to school/work while sick.

Increased awareness of washing hands/using hand sanitizer, coughing into your sleeve instead of hands or uncovered, increased awareness of touching your face and how communicable diseases spread.

More options for remote - whether that's signing documents electronically or video meetings or the option to work from home at times.


Other than that, everything else back to the way it was pre-COVID.

Cranky

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3842
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #666 on: January 21, 2022, 05:52:28 PM »
I’ve been pondering what sort of “normal” we’re expecting. Things always change, and we can go back in time, so maybe… it’s never going to be 2019 again and it might be less stressful to accept that the future is just going to be different than the Before Times.

I really don’t care what decisions people make for themselves - if you really have to eat in a restaurant, that’s your decision. I really don’t understand the general unkindness of refusing a vaccine and refusing to wear a mask in the grocery store.

No masks unless you're actively sick/coughing - similar to what an ER/Doctor's Office would have asked you to do in 2019 or earlier - or you're immuno-compromised (undergoing cancer treatment, etc.)

Less social pressure to come to work/school while sick and more social pressure to stay at home instead of going to school/work while sick.

Increased awareness of washing hands/using hand sanitizer, coughing into your sleeve instead of hands or uncovered, increased awareness of touching your face and how communicable diseases spread.

More options for remote - whether that's signing documents electronically or video meetings or the option to work from home at times.


Other than that, everything else back to the way it was pre-COVID.

But why no masks, at least in essential areas, for most people? I honestly don’t get why they are such a sticking point? Why not a general move to masks in stores in the winter? I haven’t had a cold in two years, and I’m loving it.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 17497
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #667 on: January 21, 2022, 07:01:04 PM »
I’ve been pondering what sort of “normal” we’re expecting. Things always change, and we can go back in time, so maybe… it’s never going to be 2019 again and it might be less stressful to accept that the future is just going to be different than the Before Times.

I really don’t care what decisions people make for themselves - if you really have to eat in a restaurant, that’s your decision. I really don’t understand the general unkindness of refusing a vaccine and refusing to wear a mask in the grocery store.

No masks unless you're actively sick/coughing - similar to what an ER/Doctor's Office would have asked you to do in 2019 or earlier - or you're immuno-compromised (undergoing cancer treatment, etc.)

Less social pressure to come to work/school while sick and more social pressure to stay at home instead of going to school/work while sick.

Increased awareness of washing hands/using hand sanitizer, coughing into your sleeve instead of hands or uncovered, increased awareness of touching your face and how communicable diseases spread.

More options for remote - whether that's signing documents electronically or video meetings or the option to work from home at times.


Other than that, everything else back to the way it was pre-COVID.

But why no masks, at least in essential areas, for most people? I honestly don’t get why they are such a sticking point? Why not a general move to masks in stores in the winter? I haven’t had a cold in two years, and I’m loving it.

It does seem a bit strange to me, this American stigmatizing of mask-wearing. Certainly in other countries it’s common and socially acceptable to wear a mask in public even in normal times. I’ve been both shocked and dismayed at the not-infrequent snide comments complete strangers make to me about wearing a mask during a pandemic

scottish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2716
  • Location: Ottawa
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #668 on: January 21, 2022, 07:14:08 PM »
I’ve been pondering what sort of “normal” we’re expecting. Things always change, and we can go back in time, so maybe… it’s never going to be 2019 again and it might be less stressful to accept that the future is just going to be different than the Before Times.

I really don’t care what decisions people make for themselves - if you really have to eat in a restaurant, that’s your decision. I really don’t understand the general unkindness of refusing a vaccine and refusing to wear a mask in the grocery store.

No masks unless you're actively sick/coughing - similar to what an ER/Doctor's Office would have asked you to do in 2019 or earlier - or you're immuno-compromised (undergoing cancer treatment, etc.)

Less social pressure to come to work/school while sick and more social pressure to stay at home instead of going to school/work while sick.

Increased awareness of washing hands/using hand sanitizer, coughing into your sleeve instead of hands or uncovered, increased awareness of touching your face and how communicable diseases spread.

More options for remote - whether that's signing documents electronically or video meetings or the option to work from home at times.


Other than that, everything else back to the way it was pre-COVID.

But why no masks, at least in essential areas, for most people? I honestly don’t get why they are such a sticking point? Why not a general move to masks in stores in the winter? I haven’t had a cold in two years, and I’m loving it.

How about masks on trains, planes and buses?

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 23128
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #669 on: January 21, 2022, 08:11:27 PM »
Which precautions do you want to keep?

School closures, business closures, and preventing gatherings do a lot of damage to people when they're in place and not absolutely necessary.  Mask mandates make more sense if we can do away with pointless security pageantry mask wearing rules (wearing a mask to walk to a table in a restaurant, then taking it off when you sit down to eat, for example).

Why are we doing this again? We went through it 10 times already.

I am genuinely curious to know as well.  I feel like you are the cheerleader of an opinion that you think everyone here shares, when in reality they don't.... or as pointed out a few posts up, maybe there is a disconnect in definitions.  You said "90%" of people in this thread were like "screw everything we're going back to normal" according to you, and now this Omi wave is now somehow evidence that we should not be doing those activities.  Which restrictions would you like back?  Do you want full lockdowns again?  School to go back to online only?  Restaurants to close?  Shut down air travel?  Cancelling Dentist appointments?  Stop having in person events?  Starting cutting our own hair again?

Some of us haven't had in-person events for two years, and have been cutting our own hair for well over a decade now.  :P

I'd really like to try to keep my son in in-person classes.  He has had two severely disrupted years of questionable quality half-online learning now, and his education seems to be suffering.  He's also had some issues with his inability to see/play with his school friends.  I am also looking forward to having an optometrist and dentist appointment later this year at some point - it's time for both.

seattlecyclone

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7254
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Seattle, WA
    • My blog
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #670 on: January 21, 2022, 08:14:20 PM »
I’ve been pondering what sort of “normal” we’re expecting. Things always change, and we can go back in time, so maybe… it’s never going to be 2019 again and it might be less stressful to accept that the future is just going to be different than the Before Times.

I really don’t care what decisions people make for themselves - if you really have to eat in a restaurant, that’s your decision. I really don’t understand the general unkindness of refusing a vaccine and refusing to wear a mask in the grocery store.

No masks unless you're actively sick/coughing - similar to what an ER/Doctor's Office would have asked you to do in 2019 or earlier - or you're immuno-compromised (undergoing cancer treatment, etc.)

Less social pressure to come to work/school while sick and more social pressure to stay at home instead of going to school/work while sick.

Increased awareness of washing hands/using hand sanitizer, coughing into your sleeve instead of hands or uncovered, increased awareness of touching your face and how communicable diseases spread.

More options for remote - whether that's signing documents electronically or video meetings or the option to work from home at times.


Other than that, everything else back to the way it was pre-COVID.

But why no masks, at least in essential areas, for most people? I honestly don’t get why they are such a sticking point? Why not a general move to masks in stores in the winter? I haven’t had a cold in two years, and I’m loving it.

It's a minor benefit weighed against a minor annoyance. Mask wearing only provides a benefit to others when the wearer is contagiously spreading disease, and most asymptomatic people aren't doing that. This month may be an exception. My hearing isn't amazing, so I generally have a preference for being able to see people's lips moving if I need to talk to them. I also just think it's nice to see people's smiling faces when I'm out and about. I miss that. I'd like to settle into a pattern of mask wearing while you're sick, but not otherwise. I don't hate wearing masks at stores. It's not the hill I'm going to die on. I just think that of all the things we could do to prevent disease, asymptomatic mask wearing is probably one of the least impactful. This goes double in buildings such as a grocery store where you're not there for very long and are moving around for most of that time, limiting your exposure to any one person.

Where I do hate mask wearing is during strenuous exercise. The club where I play my favorite sport has had that policy all year and it's really getting old.

I think my "ideal new normal" list looks a lot like @Michael in ABQ's. I'd probably quibble a bit with the "more social pressure to isolate when sick" thing, or at least want to clarify that. I think people should be absolutely given more space than before to take time off if they feel they are operating on a lower level due to illness. Once they're feeling mostly better but still have a residual cough or something, they should feel empowered to go about their life with a mask on. The COVID-era policies where parents are expected to keep their kids home anytime they have minor respiratory symptoms, and for a week after...it's way too disruptive to life in general. Getting colds more often comes with the territory being a parent; what should not come with the territory is a need to take half the winter off from work because one kid or another has the sniffles and can't go into school that week.

elaine amj

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Walrus Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 5548
  • Location: Ontario
Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #671 on: January 21, 2022, 11:33:00 PM »
My niece and her boyfriend have covid.  He's unvaxxed and pretty sick, she's vaxxed and asymptomatic.  She only tested because she was exposed to him.  No one else in the household tested positive.  They are having a birthday party with the whole family (9 people minimum) despite her being positive.  We were invited but obviously declined.  Also the entire family has been going about their daily lives and going to stores and whatnot even as they were awaiting test results.
That is insane. I must be naive but I honestly didn’t know people did this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes very insane.  Yes you are naive, because at least half of the population is insane.  At this point I would just assume a good portion of people you see going about their business are positive.  Some don't know it, but many do and just don't care.  I mean what are they gonna do, isolate at home for 10 days with their entire household? lol

ETA: I mean the USA is still averaging like 3/4 of a million positive tests each day.  That's like 1.5% of the entire US population that tested positive just this past week. That doesn't include all the at home positives, and doesn't include people that either couldn't get a test or didn't even bother.
Ouch. I have definitely been naive. And also live in Canada.

And even my antivax friends very carefully check with us to make sure we are comfortable with their visiting, offer to wear masks, and no one would dream of visiting if actively sick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Shane

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1665
  • Location: Midtown
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #672 on: January 22, 2022, 06:25:08 AM »
Center City Philadelphia Restaurant Week just ended yesterday. DW, DD and I ate several delicious meals in totally packed restaurants, during the past week. It was totally safe, though, because hostesses were checking vaxx certificates and, sometimes, ID at the door, and we always made sure to wear masks from the hostess station to our table and on our way back and forth to the restroom. /s

Our family of 3 is all fully vaxxed, and boosted within the last month. So far, we all feel fine. No symptoms of anything, anyway. I guess the vaccines must be working.

Abe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2647
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #673 on: January 22, 2022, 07:31:13 AM »
A big question regarding utility of mask wearing for non-covid diseases will be answered with this year’s flu season. The primary detected strain this year is a particularly virulent one, and vaccines are only moderately effective against getting a symptomatic infection. If hospitalizations from that are lower than expected in February-March, it will suggest a benefit to masks, etc since there are not other effective ways to prevent transmission. This will be notable because influenza is mostly spread by droplets/touching your nose and mouth, etc. Data so far suggests a milder than expected wave (preliminary data suggests it is already waning).

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20742
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #674 on: January 22, 2022, 09:57:07 AM »
A big question regarding utility of mask wearing for non-covid diseases will be answered with this year’s flu season. The primary detected strain this year is a particularly virulent one, and vaccines are only moderately effective against getting a symptomatic infection. If hospitalizations from that are lower than expected in February-March, it will suggest a benefit to masks, etc since there are not other effective ways to prevent transmission. This will be notable because influenza is mostly spread by droplets/touching your nose and mouth, etc. Data so far suggests a milder than expected wave (preliminary data suggests it is already waning).

Just out of curiosity, which strain is it?

Everyone here is still masked indoors so it will be useful to see our flu stats this spring.

mizzourah2006

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1063
  • Location: NWA
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #675 on: January 22, 2022, 11:08:29 AM »
Its crazy how different different areas are. We've been essentially back to normal for a year outside of my daughter wearing a mask for a month at the beginning of this school year. Some people wear masks, some don't, but nobody gives you bad looks either way. Then I hear about my friend in the northeast and his 5 year old daughters had to get vaxxed or kicked out of school and even after everyone in the school is fully vaccinated they force the kids to eat their food outside in 25 degree weather and mask all day.

scottish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2716
  • Location: Ottawa
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #676 on: January 22, 2022, 11:10:45 AM »
A significant number of first world polities have announced that they are moving to treatment of COVID as an endemic disease:   Spain, the UK, Ireland, South Africa, Switzerland, Portugal, British Columbia, Ontario (sort of)...   and of course many states in the US have been de facto doing this for months now.   https://nationalpost.com/health/flu-ization-why-omicron-is-causing-some-countries-to-treat-covid-like-the-flu

So it looks like we're going to be living with COVID regardless of whether we think it's a good idea or a bad idea.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20742
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #677 on: January 22, 2022, 11:22:15 AM »
A significant number of first world polities have announced that they are moving to treatment of COVID as an endemic disease:   Spain, the UK, Ireland, South Africa, Switzerland, Portugal, British Columbia, Ontario (sort of)...   and of course many states in the US have been de facto doing this for months now.   https://nationalpost.com/health/flu-ization-why-omicron-is-causing-some-countries-to-treat-covid-like-the-flu

So it looks like we're going to be living with COVID regardless of whether we think it's a good idea or a bad idea.

I'm just glad we are now so used to masks that no-one is going to side-eye me for my nice N95.  Screw masks, I want my respirator, I'm old and I have crappy lungs*  and I don't want to catch covid or the flu.


* Smoking parents and polluted city air most of my working life, plus bouts of bronchitis and pneumonia, do not make for great lungs.

StashingAway

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 895
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #678 on: January 22, 2022, 01:17:40 PM »
It's a minor benefit weighed against a minor annoyance. Mask wearing only provides a benefit to others when the wearer is contagiously spreading disease, and most asymptomatic people aren't doing that. This month may be an exception. My hearing isn't amazing, so I generally have a preference for being able to see people's lips moving if I need to talk to them. I also just think it's nice to see people's smiling faces when I'm out and about. I miss that. I'd like to settle into a pattern of mask wearing while you're sick, but not otherwise. I don't hate wearing masks at stores. It's not the hill I'm going to die on. I just think that of all the things we could do to prevent disease, asymptomatic mask wearing is probably one of the least impactful. This goes double in buildings such as a grocery store where you're not there for very long and are moving around for most of that time, limiting your exposure to any one person.

Where I do hate mask wearing is during strenuous exercise. The club where I play my favorite sport has had that policy all year and it's really getting old.

I think my "ideal new normal" list looks a lot like @Michael in ABQ's. I'd probably quibble a bit with the "more social pressure to isolate when sick" thing, or at least want to clarify that. I think people should be absolutely given more space than before to take time off if they feel they are operating on a lower level due to illness. Once they're feeling mostly better but still have a residual cough or something, they should feel empowered to go about their life with a mask on. The COVID-era policies where parents are expected to keep their kids home anytime they have minor respiratory symptoms, and for a week after...it's way too disruptive to life in general. Getting colds more often comes with the territory being a parent; what should not come with the territory is a need to take half the winter off from work because one kid or another has the sniffles and can't go into school that week.

+1.

I totally understand that Covid has short term and long term implications and there are benefits to masks. But I don't think that wearing masks has zero consequences. I suspect that, especially in children, we would be pretty ignorant to think that covering up half of our faces in public wouldn't have long term social/cultural impacts. It's bad enough that most people are staring at their phones all the time.

Captain FIRE

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1176
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #679 on: January 22, 2022, 02:08:45 PM »
Its crazy how different different areas are. We've been essentially back to normal for a year outside of my daughter wearing a mask for a month at the beginning of this school year. Some people wear masks, some don't, but nobody gives you bad looks either way. Then I hear about my friend in the northeast and his 5 year old daughters had to get vaxxed or kicked out of school and even after everyone in the school is fully vaccinated they force the kids to eat their food outside in 25 degree weather and mask all day.

Well, for the flip side of this - it's not the vaccinated don't get it.  Some of those vaccinated kids have younger unvaccinated siblings as well, so if it goes through the schools it'll hit the unvaccinated daycares.

I live pretty far north and no one around here is eating outside, though they are masking up.

Abe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2647
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #680 on: January 22, 2022, 05:24:38 PM »
A big question regarding utility of mask wearing for non-covid diseases will be answered with this year’s flu season. The primary detected strain this year is a particularly virulent one, and vaccines are only moderately effective against getting a symptomatic infection. If hospitalizations from that are lower than expected in February-March, it will suggest a benefit to masks, etc since there are not other effective ways to prevent transmission. This will be notable because influenza is mostly spread by droplets/touching your nose and mouth, etc. Data so far suggests a milder than expected wave (preliminary data suggests it is already waning).

Just out of curiosity, which strain is it?

Everyone here is still masked indoors so it will be useful to see our flu stats this spring.

H3N2. The bad influenza season about a decade ago and the 2017-18 one were the same.

Shane

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1665
  • Location: Midtown
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #681 on: January 22, 2022, 06:17:26 PM »
A big question regarding utility of mask wearing for non-covid diseases will be answered with this year’s flu season. The primary detected strain this year is a particularly virulent one, and vaccines are only moderately effective against getting a symptomatic infection. If hospitalizations from that are lower than expected in February-March, it will suggest a benefit to masks, etc since there are not other effective ways to prevent transmission. This will be notable because influenza is mostly spread by droplets/touching your nose and mouth, etc. Data so far suggests a milder than expected wave (preliminary data suggests it is already waning).

An elderly, immunocompromised friend told us recently (by phone, of course) that, since Covid started, the only time he ever goes outside of his apartment is Monday mornings at 4:45 a.m. Apparently, he sits in his car outside the local supermarket, wearing a mask and gloves, waiting for it to open. At exactly 5 a.m., he rushes into the store, loads up his cart, checks out, and is usually back home before 5:30 a.m. That's it. Besides this weekly excursion to the grocery store, our friend sits alone in his tiny, one-bedroom apartment, watching TV and reading all. week. long.

Another, much younger, immunocompromised friend told us recently that she has not left her home, at all, since last September. Not even once. For anything. She lives in an area where it's easy to have, basically, everything delivered, and she works from home.

If flu hospitalizations do end up being lower than expected this winter, just curious, what would lead you to believe that that was caused by mask wearing, specifically, and not the continuing propensity of people at risk to voluntarily socially distance themselves from other humans? I mean, if you never, or barely ever, leave your house, of course you're not going to catch the flu, whether you wear a mask or not. Without a control group who socially distance but don't wear masks, it seems like it'll hard to establish any sort of causal link between mask wearing and lower flu hospitalization rates. Or, am I missing something, Dr. Abe?

Abe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2647
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #682 on: January 22, 2022, 07:41:39 PM »
A big question regarding utility of mask wearing for non-covid diseases will be answered with this year’s flu season. The primary detected strain this year is a particularly virulent one, and vaccines are only moderately effective against getting a symptomatic infection. If hospitalizations from that are lower than expected in February-March, it will suggest a benefit to masks, etc since there are not other effective ways to prevent transmission. This will be notable because influenza is mostly spread by droplets/touching your nose and mouth, etc. Data so far suggests a milder than expected wave (preliminary data suggests it is already waning).

An elderly, immunocompromised friend told us recently (by phone, of course) that, since Covid started, the only time he ever goes outside of his apartment is Monday mornings at 4:45 a.m. Apparently, he sits in his car outside the local supermarket, wearing a mask and gloves, waiting for it to open. At exactly 5 a.m., he rushes into the store, loads up his cart, checks out, and is usually back home before 5:30 a.m. That's it. Besides this weekly excursion to the grocery store, our friend sits alone in his tiny, one-bedroom apartment, watching TV and reading all. week. long.

Another, much younger, immunocompromised friend told us recently that she has not left her home, at all, since last September. Not even once. For anything. She lives in an area where it's easy to have, basically, everything delivered, and she works from home.

If flu hospitalizations do end up being lower than expected this winter, just curious, what would lead you to believe that that was caused by mask wearing, specifically, and not the continuing propensity of people at risk to voluntarily socially distance themselves from other humans? I mean, if you never, or barely ever, leave your house, of course you're not going to catch the flu, whether you wear a mask or not. Without a control group who socially distance but don't wear masks, it seems like it'll hard to establish any sort of causal link between mask wearing and lower flu hospitalization rates. Or, am I missing something, Dr. Abe?

Your friends' situations are tough and I hope after this wave resolves they will be in a better position to do more out of the house.

With regards to your question:
Hospital workers would be a good example of people who can be examined pre and post-pandemic. Since we have to go to work and are at higher than average risk of respiratory illness, we're a good cohort to examine. Rates for influenza pre and post would be a variable (likely very high compliance regardless due to long-standing influenza vaccine mandates), potentially a survey of interactions outside of work and home to account for the factor you bring up, and crucially mask use (as hospitals did not mandate masks during flu season, but do mandate masks during the pandemic). As you mention, travel outside of work and the home will be a confounder, but since most hospital workers are not immunocompromised + vaccinated against COVID, I don't anticipate excess confounding. The reason this would work for influenza (and other respiratory illnesses) is the vaccine this season is less effective than normal. Other surrogate markers could be rhinovirus/adenovirus infection since those are mild and readily identifiable on standard testing.

That is a study that is ongoing at my hospital and others. Data looking at the 2020-21 flu season suggested lower rates of all respiratory illnesses (that paper is still in peer review).
« Last Edit: January 22, 2022, 07:47:32 PM by Abe »

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20742
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #683 on: January 22, 2022, 07:48:48 PM »
A big question regarding utility of mask wearing for non-covid diseases will be answered with this year’s flu season. The primary detected strain this year is a particularly virulent one, and vaccines are only moderately effective against getting a symptomatic infection. If hospitalizations from that are lower than expected in February-March, it will suggest a benefit to masks, etc since there are not other effective ways to prevent transmission. This will be notable because influenza is mostly spread by droplets/touching your nose and mouth, etc. Data so far suggests a milder than expected wave (preliminary data suggests it is already waning).

Just out of curiosity, which strain is it?

Everyone here is still masked indoors so it will be useful to see our flu stats this spring.

H3N2. The bad influenza season about a decade ago and the 2017-18 one were the same.

I remember that one - DD got quite ill with it, spent the night in ER.  Nasty one.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20742
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #684 on: January 22, 2022, 07:55:41 PM »
If flu hospitalizations do end up being lower than expected this winter, just curious, what would lead you to believe that that was caused by mask wearing, specifically, and not the continuing propensity of people at risk to voluntarily socially distance themselves from other humans? I mean, if you never, or barely ever, leave your house, of course you're not going to catch the flu, whether you wear a mask or not. Without a control group who socially distance but don't wear masks, it seems like it'll hard to establish any sort of causal link between mask wearing and lower flu hospitalization rates. Or, am I missing something, Dr. Abe?

Here we are still wearing masks, mostly, so population levels of infection could be compared to the other winters that had the same strain as this year (H3N2), before people were wearing masks.  I would imagine that people who are severely immunocompromised were taking precautions for the flu in those years, since it was well known to be a nasty strain.  But just as we are worrying as much about hospital overloading* as about individuals for Covid, we have to look at population levels of flu.

*My Province just cancelled all elective surgeries.  Who knows when my friend will get her knee replacement done?  She has been waiting for months, the hospital space (and staffing) just isn't there right now.  And as elsewhere, it is the unvaccinated who are dis-proportionally represented.

Abe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2647
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #685 on: January 22, 2022, 08:13:42 PM »
*My Province just cancelled all elective surgeries.  Who knows when my friend will get her knee replacement done?  She has been waiting for months, the hospital space (and staffing) just isn't there right now.  And as elsewhere, it is the unvaccinated who are dis-proportionally represented.

Here in Texas it's been hit-or-miss in terms of elective operations. Right now they are on hold. The total hospitalization numbers are similar to Delta (and higher than last winter), but ICU use is less (20% of hospitalizations with COVID instead of ~30%). In general we could make capacity for outpatient procedures, unless there was a major complication and needed ICU coverage.

Almost none of my cases are elective, so we've been plugging along. I've had a few patients who got COVID and are recovering, their operations are delayed 3-4 weeks.

elaine amj

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Walrus Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 5548
  • Location: Ontario
I read that the one advantage the US has over Canada is more hospital beds per capita. So the number of sick patients the US can handle would overwhelm Canada’s hospital system. So kinda makes sense why Canada has had to be far more cautious. Of course, Canada’s death rate is only 1/3 of the US.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/health-systems-canada-us-omicron-1.6308357


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LD_TAndK

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 328
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #687 on: January 23, 2022, 03:33:31 AM »
My answer to "where I stand on living with Covid" has shifted slightly, as it seems that I am probably on the list of those with Long Covid. (According to the doctor, there isn't really a formal definition of Long Covid, other than just basically "some lingering symptoms lasting weeks or longer after the illness has passed and the infection cleared.")

That sounds dramatic, but really it is more weird and irritating than anything. Now, I didn't actually get a Covid test when I was sick. They were starting to be hard to find and I didn't think knowing for sure was actionable, since I could easily stay home and isolate.  So I won't be on any actual accounting, if there was such a thing.  But I was pretty sure it was Covid, and my doctor thinks it was as well (after the fact) based on the timing, symptoms, and the Weird Thing, which is inflammation-related and Covid is known for being inflame-y. 

It seems I have dermatographia, aka 'skin writing'.  It's an inflammation reaction, most commonly caused as the result of an infection. Can last weeks or months.  Basically, my skin gets really itchy (like the worst mosquito bites ever; it is sort of a hot itch, different than just a usually itch one experiences).  If I scratch it--not hard, just like one would for a normal itch--or even just bump it, there is a shooting fire under my skin.  Like someone has injected burning oil and it is spreading.  But the really freaky part is that a few minutes later, angry, hot, red welts appear in the exact pattern of the contact.  I can run a fingernail fairly gently over my arm in the shape of letters and 5 minutes later, I'll have an angry-looking red word appear on my arm in raised letters.  It will also hurt.

I was sick for about a week, and this started at the end of that week.

Thankfully, it has been well-managed with Zyrtec, though my sense is that the Zyrtec is lasting less and less time, and where I used to be able to take every other day, now at the end of the day, just before the next dose, I'm feeling itchy again and occasionally get the welts (which Doc says are a form of hives). That's a bit concerning because without the Zyrtec, it is entirely miserable. Like, I don't quite know how I'd function.  But we aren't to that point and I'm hoping we never get there, and that if we do, there is something else or a higher dose of Zyrtec's active ingredient, or something else. I'm also taking Quercetin, a supplement known to help with inflammation, suggested by my doc as a "can't hurt" thing. 

Really, I'm fine.  As long as the Zyrtec continues to work, it's just a minor annoyance, really.  But maybe it is also a reminder that there are so many things with this disease that we just don't know or understand.  And that "very few healthy people are dying" isn't the only factor we need to consider.

(FTR, I am fully vaxxed and boosted. I got sick before the booster's full efficacy was in effect, if that matters.)
OMG. I have  Dermatographia too! As far as I know I never had COVID. The hives started a week after my booster shot. Initial case of hives was horrible, even my ears swelled. I went to Urgent Care and was given a shot of Benedryl and Steroids and then a week of steroids. As soon as I finished the steroids they started back up again. I am managing with Zyrtec plus a Benadryl on the nights it gets bad. It’s been almost 2 months and I’m just starting to see long periods without outbreaks of miserable hives.

Thanks for sharing this.  It does make me feel slightly better to know I'm not the only one, but I'm sorry you are dealing with this, too.

Interesting that you mention yours happening after vaccination.  I wonder if this is a known/recorded side effect of the vaccine.  I actually got sick about 9 days after my booster, and the dermatographia started toward the end of my illness, probably on about day 5 (so ~11 days after booster).  I mentioned all that timing to the doctor, but I was mostly focusing on the fact that I'd been sick, not the booster, so it is hard to say whether she dismissed the booster because I did, or if she was just fairy certain, based on what I said, that it was more related to the illness.  I was still pretty sick when it started.  At first I thought maybe I had randomly gotten bed bugs or something, because I'd spend nearly all my time in bed when it started happening. I though the itchiness might be from bites, and the welts might be the bites themselves, but it soon became clear that wasn't the issue.  Point being, I was still sick, but on the tail end of it, when this started. 

I'm not yet 2 months out from my first symptom of the dermatographia, so I'm hopefully that mine will follow a similar pattern to yours and start easing at that point (or earlier!).  I'm going to stay on the daily Zyrtec for another few weeks at least, and then maybe take a short break to see if it is still A Thing, unless I can already tell that based on the breakthrough symptoms at the tail end of the Zyrtec.

My BIL had this issue and definitively narrowed it down to the booster. He did not have this reaction from the original shots. He did have an larger than is now standard booster before they dialed the dose back (I forget the amount).

It started about a week after the booster. He tested for covid which was negative, then went through an allergy test and came back negative for anything. Ultimately he was on steroids and antihistamines and it cleared up in about three weeks.

Arbitrage

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1405
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #688 on: January 23, 2022, 08:03:37 AM »
Going to find out if being super careful while traveling is effective mitigation against Omicron.  Just returned from a cross-country business trip, and kept my well-fitting KN95 masks plastered to my face at all times, only removing the mask when outside and/or more than 20 feet away from everyone else.  No snacking on the plane or at work.  No going out to eat in restaurants.  The area visited was near-zero masking, though the work location had both vaccine and mask requirements (everyone else would remove masks to snack/drink and sometimes chat, though).  Some anti-maskers in the airports and on the plane, though the flight crew was pretty good about hounding them on the plane.  Personally vaxxed and boosted. 

The 585

  • Guest
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #689 on: January 23, 2022, 09:24:57 AM »
Like so many others during this surge, me and my family tested positive after christmas despite all being fully vaxxed and boosted. We had very mild sniffles and coughs for a day, and all stayed home for the week. Get vaxxed and move on, COVID's not going away. Enough of the needless paranoia.

I applaud UK and the other few European countries removing all mandates and restrictions, urging to live with it just like the flu. Just give us our lives back and end the silly rotating travel bans / testing requirements.

sui generis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3104
  • she/her
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #690 on: January 23, 2022, 09:54:54 AM »
Going to find out if being super careful while traveling is effective mitigation against Omicron.  Just returned from a cross-country business trip, and kept my well-fitting KN95 masks plastered to my face at all times, only removing the mask when outside and/or more than 20 feet away from everyone else.  No snacking on the plane or at work.  No going out to eat in restaurants.  The area visited was near-zero masking, though the work location had both vaccine and mask requirements (everyone else would remove masks to snack/drink and sometimes chat, though).  Some anti-maskers in the airports and on the plane, though the flight crew was pretty good about hounding them on the plane.  Personally vaxxed and boosted.

It was probably a good dose of luck added to the pot, but this worked for me.  I did at least a dozen planes and trains over the holidays to visit family and friends and wore my N95 mostly religiously and didn't catch it.  I was on several long trains and planes, such that I couldn't go so long without some hydration and snacks, so I pulled my mask down a few times for that.  I was careful to do that only on the plane while in flight, not in the airport or before the plane engines were on, since a plane with its full ventilation going seemed like the safest time to do so.  I only ate outdoors if a restaurant, but I did unmask indoors with friends and family, even though there were some kids that weren't fully vaxxed due to age.

I also took a wilderness first aid course 2 weeks ago and was in a room with 3 dozen vaxxed and masked folks.  They required at least KN95 masks, and provided them if folks didn't have them. And while we were working on rescue scenarios I of course was very close in with lots of people.  Although we were outside, we didn't remove our masks for this.  It felt very reassuring.  And I'm more than 2 weeks past that, so I just feel partially quite lucky and partially very trusting of my N95 now.

former player

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8822
  • Location: Avalon
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #691 on: January 23, 2022, 11:26:17 AM »
I'm socialising a bit more but wearing an FFP3 mask while doing so indoors.  I need to schedule dentist and opticians visits but will give that another week or two of local cases coming down.

This study in Sweden has half of all the early covid cases having permanent loss, reduction or distortion of their sense of smell.  Not "just like the flu" in that respect then.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/23/nearly-half-of-first-wave-covid-cases-may-suffer-lasting-harm-to-sense-of-smell

Cranky

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3842
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #692 on: January 23, 2022, 01:29:59 PM »
Also, people seem unaware that school is sometimes closed because of flu. You have to have enough staff to keep things running. The school system here has less than half its usual sub pool, so they are in a precarious place if there’s a flu outbreak, too, and I see that getting worse, not better.

I mean, like it or not, we are right now “living with Covid”. This *is* what it looks like.

BeanCounter

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1755
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #693 on: January 24, 2022, 06:12:05 AM »
I'm still in the "let's get back to normal" category. I don't want to say "screw everybody". But those still at risk at this point would be highly at risk for the flu too and we don't force people to isolate for five days and then mask for five more to attempt to protect everyone else.

I'm really frustrated by how kind of crazy the rules seem at this point. My youngest child (9yo) tested positive last weekend. He had a runny nose and slight cough for about 2ish days. (in the "before" times I would not have even considered him "sick") We had to keep him home from school for a week. On day 6, per the CDC he may return to school AND TO BASKETBALL as long as he wears a mask. But it's a cloth mask, none of the other kids are masked, and he will take it off for lunch. The rest of us are vaccinated and boostered. We tested negative and have been allowed to go to work and school and PLAY BASKETBALL as long as we mask. And we were to test on day 5 to see if we are still negative. (we actually opted to isolate for 5 days until we tested again anyway because it seemed like the right thing to do)
Based on what we know about Omicron, I don't see how any of those rules really do that much to prevent spread. It just seems like theatrics.

And in talking with other parents at our school, I know about half the parents aren't even testing. I tested my kid because he had the sniffles and he had a friend coming over (whose mom is a teacher) and we HAD TESTS. About half the parents I know said they wouldn't have even tested their kid, or put a mask on them or anything. Several parents on my son's basketball team were pissed we tested him because it meant they had to test so that their exposed kids could come back to play (though it's on the honor system so unlikely they did)
So I feel like my life has been upended for five days for nothing. Because the rules are stupidly arbitrary and at least half the people aren't doing the same anyway.

frugalnacho

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5055
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #694 on: January 24, 2022, 06:26:48 AM »
We have vaccines, we have masks, we still have rules in a lot of the country, and a lot of people (although obviously not everyone) are still actively trying to isolate themselves from crowds and the virus if at all possible, and the USA is still averaging 2,000+ covid deaths every day. 

mizzourah2006

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1063
  • Location: NWA
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #695 on: January 24, 2022, 06:35:44 AM »
It hit our household. My wife felt a bit off on Saturday and tested Saturday night and was positive. Same for my daughter. I'm sure I have it too because I feel a bit off too. It feels kind of like being a bit hungover. Not a hangover where you had WAY too much drink the night before, but one where you probably had 1 or 2 too many. Sunday is usually my lazy day, but I still got my 10k steps yesterday and got chores around the house done, but I didn't have my usual full energy, probably at about 85%.

I'm starting to wonder if 3-5 or 5-7 days isn't fully accurate from exposure to symptoms. I know this is an anecdote and it could be completely coincidental, but we were in Fort Lauderdale from the 7th-10th. My brother and his fiance were there and my wife's sister and her family visited as well. We later found out that my brother's fiance tested positive on the 8th (PCR that took like 5 days to get the results) and we were in contact with her on the 7th and the 8th. My brother also started showing symptoms on the 10th and we were in contact with him from the 7th-9th. My wife's sister got pretty sick the 20th and it was covid, my wife and daughter started to feel it the 22nd, I started to feel it the 23rd, and my brother-in-law started to feel it the 23rd. The thing is we live 1500 miles from one another. So, we know we were all directly exposed as late as the 8th and apparently none of us got it from that direct exposure, but all got it coincidentally about a week later despite living halfway across the country from one another. Obviously it's possible, but it seems more likely we contracted on the 8th/9th and didn't start showing symptoms for about 2 weeks.

startingsmall

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 837
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #696 on: January 24, 2022, 06:52:21 AM »
I'm still in the "let's get back to normal" category. I don't want to say "screw everybody". But those still at risk at this point would be highly at risk for the flu too and we don't force people to isolate for five days and then mask for five more to attempt to protect everyone else.

I'm really frustrated by how kind of crazy the rules seem at this point. My youngest child (9yo) tested positive last weekend. He had a runny nose and slight cough for about 2ish days. (in the "before" times I would not have even considered him "sick") We had to keep him home from school for a week. On day 6, per the CDC he may return to school AND TO BASKETBALL as long as he wears a mask. But it's a cloth mask, none of the other kids are masked, and he will take it off for lunch. The rest of us are vaccinated and boostered. We tested negative and have been allowed to go to work and school and PLAY BASKETBALL as long as we mask. And we were to test on day 5 to see if we are still negative. (we actually opted to isolate for 5 days until we tested again anyway because it seemed like the right thing to do)
Based on what we know about Omicron, I don't see how any of those rules really do that much to prevent spread. It just seems like theatrics.

And in talking with other parents at our school, I know about half the parents aren't even testing. I tested my kid because he had the sniffles and he had a friend coming over (whose mom is a teacher) and we HAD TESTS. About half the parents I know said they wouldn't have even tested their kid, or put a mask on them or anything. Several parents on my son's basketball team were pissed we tested him because it meant they had to test so that their exposed kids could come back to play (though it's on the honor system so unlikely they did)
So I feel like my life has been upended for five days for nothing. Because the rules are stupidly arbitrary and at least half the people aren't doing the same anyway.

This is my frustration, too. I'm very much a rule-follower, so we've all been testing like crazy since my husband had an all-day exposure at work six days ago. It seems like the right thing to do. But I KNOW that most people in our area wouldn't have even tested themselves when sick and notified contacts (like my husband's coworker did) and I know most people would not have taken any precautions after an exposure.

My daughter has had a lot of kids absent from her class at school, but they're all out for 1-2 days and then come back. You can't tell me that NONE of those kids were positive for COVID. I'm sure their parents just aren't testing. Heck, our next door neighbor is a nurse and she sent her son to school on Tuesday after he'd had an hours-long bout of vomiting on Monday night.... and I'm pretty sure she didn't bother to test first.

I'm almost at the point of wishing they'd just eliminate the guidelines at this point. This is one group project that can't be accomplished by a tiny minority of us, but I feel like we're all driving ourselves crazy trying.

BeanCounter

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1755
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #697 on: January 24, 2022, 06:59:52 AM »
I'm still in the "let's get back to normal" category. I don't want to say "screw everybody". But those still at risk at this point would be highly at risk for the flu too and we don't force people to isolate for five days and then mask for five more to attempt to protect everyone else.

I'm really frustrated by how kind of crazy the rules seem at this point. My youngest child (9yo) tested positive last weekend. He had a runny nose and slight cough for about 2ish days. (in the "before" times I would not have even considered him "sick") We had to keep him home from school for a week. On day 6, per the CDC he may return to school AND TO BASKETBALL as long as he wears a mask. But it's a cloth mask, none of the other kids are masked, and he will take it off for lunch. The rest of us are vaccinated and boostered. We tested negative and have been allowed to go to work and school and PLAY BASKETBALL as long as we mask. And we were to test on day 5 to see if we are still negative. (we actually opted to isolate for 5 days until we tested again anyway because it seemed like the right thing to do)
Based on what we know about Omicron, I don't see how any of those rules really do that much to prevent spread. It just seems like theatrics.

And in talking with other parents at our school, I know about half the parents aren't even testing. I tested my kid because he had the sniffles and he had a friend coming over (whose mom is a teacher) and we HAD TESTS. About half the parents I know said they wouldn't have even tested their kid, or put a mask on them or anything. Several parents on my son's basketball team were pissed we tested him because it meant they had to test so that their exposed kids could come back to play (though it's on the honor system so unlikely they did)
So I feel like my life has been upended for five days for nothing. Because the rules are stupidly arbitrary and at least half the people aren't doing the same anyway.

This is my frustration, too. I'm very much a rule-follower, so we've all been testing like crazy since my husband had an all-day exposure at work six days ago. It seems like the right thing to do. But I KNOW that most people in our area wouldn't have even tested themselves when sick and notified contacts (like my husband's coworker did) and I know most people would not have taken any precautions after an exposure.

My daughter has had a lot of kids absent from her class at school, but they're all out for 1-2 days and then come back. You can't tell me that NONE of those kids were positive for COVID. I'm sure their parents just aren't testing. Heck, our next door neighbor is a nurse and she sent her son to school on Tuesday after he'd had an hours-long bout of vomiting on Monday night.... and I'm pretty sure she didn't bother to test first.

I'm almost at the point of wishing they'd just eliminate the guidelines at this point. This is one group project that can't be accomplished by a tiny minority of us, but I feel like we're all driving ourselves crazy trying.

Oh yeah I almost forgot- since he tested positive on Sunday and their was no school on Monday (MLK day) I reached out to the basketball team and all his best buddies parents since he said he sat with them at lunch on Friday. I thought they should know before the nurse called them in case they were trying to protect someone in their family.
Turns out the school didn't and wasn't planning to do any contract tracing. They also didn't report the positive case. The principal told me that since he tested positive on the weekend "it didn't count".
So what are we doing all this for????

startingsmall

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 837
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #698 on: January 24, 2022, 07:24:33 AM »
I'm still in the "let's get back to normal" category. I don't want to say "screw everybody". But those still at risk at this point would be highly at risk for the flu too and we don't force people to isolate for five days and then mask for five more to attempt to protect everyone else.

I'm really frustrated by how kind of crazy the rules seem at this point. My youngest child (9yo) tested positive last weekend. He had a runny nose and slight cough for about 2ish days. (in the "before" times I would not have even considered him "sick") We had to keep him home from school for a week. On day 6, per the CDC he may return to school AND TO BASKETBALL as long as he wears a mask. But it's a cloth mask, none of the other kids are masked, and he will take it off for lunch. The rest of us are vaccinated and boostered. We tested negative and have been allowed to go to work and school and PLAY BASKETBALL as long as we mask. And we were to test on day 5 to see if we are still negative. (we actually opted to isolate for 5 days until we tested again anyway because it seemed like the right thing to do)
Based on what we know about Omicron, I don't see how any of those rules really do that much to prevent spread. It just seems like theatrics.

And in talking with other parents at our school, I know about half the parents aren't even testing. I tested my kid because he had the sniffles and he had a friend coming over (whose mom is a teacher) and we HAD TESTS. About half the parents I know said they wouldn't have even tested their kid, or put a mask on them or anything. Several parents on my son's basketball team were pissed we tested him because it meant they had to test so that their exposed kids could come back to play (though it's on the honor system so unlikely they did)
So I feel like my life has been upended for five days for nothing. Because the rules are stupidly arbitrary and at least half the people aren't doing the same anyway.

This is my frustration, too. I'm very much a rule-follower, so we've all been testing like crazy since my husband had an all-day exposure at work six days ago. It seems like the right thing to do. But I KNOW that most people in our area wouldn't have even tested themselves when sick and notified contacts (like my husband's coworker did) and I know most people would not have taken any precautions after an exposure.

My daughter has had a lot of kids absent from her class at school, but they're all out for 1-2 days and then come back. You can't tell me that NONE of those kids were positive for COVID. I'm sure their parents just aren't testing. Heck, our next door neighbor is a nurse and she sent her son to school on Tuesday after he'd had an hours-long bout of vomiting on Monday night.... and I'm pretty sure she didn't bother to test first.

I'm almost at the point of wishing they'd just eliminate the guidelines at this point. This is one group project that can't be accomplished by a tiny minority of us, but I feel like we're all driving ourselves crazy trying.

Oh yeah I almost forgot- since he tested positive on Sunday and their was no school on Monday (MLK day) I reached out to the basketball team and all his best buddies parents since he said he sat with them at lunch on Friday. I thought they should know before the nurse called them in case they were trying to protect someone in their family.
Turns out the school didn't and wasn't planning to do any contract tracing. They also didn't report the positive case. The principal told me that since he tested positive on the weekend "it didn't count".
So what are we doing all this for????

I'm in Florida, where the schools do ZERO contact tracing. (And no masks or any other sort of mitigation). There's an online dashboard that shows the number of cases in each school each day, but there's absolutely no way that we would ever know if our kid was directly exposed. (Her teacher was recently out and the kids were told relatively early on that her scheduled return date was some date that just happened to be 10 days in the future... so she was presumably COVID positive but we were never notified.)

So here we are, going through this whole big panic over my husband's work exposure, while knowing fully well that our daughter has probably been exposed countless times at school without us even knowing about it. The lack of consistency is what's driving me crazy.... why bother anymore? But I'm a rule-follower, so of course I'll still bother. Once the rules change, though, I'm out.

GodlessCommie

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 969
  • Location: NoVA
Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #699 on: January 24, 2022, 09:25:17 AM »
Can't find a link to the actual study, unfortunately. It's also not clear if it's causation or correlation. It is possible that school districts that implemented mask mandates are populated by people who, in general, take Covid precautions more seriously. After all, local policies reflect local attitudes. But schools with mask mandates in Michigan have significantly lower Covid rates.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!