Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"

[mizzourah2006]

I read that too, and I wonder if it's bad now or has always been bad.  I can see it though.  Back in the day, when I actually worked at the office, I would at least have a longer walk from the office to the bathroom or water cooler.  I had meetings in the building a block away.  2-3 times a week I'd clear my head with a walk at lunch, then eat my food at my desk.

These days, I work in my bedroom.  The walk to the bathroom is 10 steps, maybe 15.  I don't walk to meetings.  I don't even stand up during meetings.  With kid dropoff and pickup schedules, it's just a lot more work to squeeze in a lunch walk compared to "before times" because there's always something to be done in the house.

(I still exercise every day before work, plus I walk the dog 4 days a week...but it's less than I was getting before COVID.)

Haha, that's exactly like me. When I worked in the office I'd eat a quick lunch at my desk and then I had a route outside the building that I go on walks most days, just to get out of the office. I moved to work from home a few years before Covid, but it allowed me to swap my walks for quick bike rides or runs. I've got a solid greenway loop that I do several times a week and I can get ~9 miles done in 35 minutes. If I don't have that amount of time I have a 2.2 mile loop that I can go for a run on in ~22 minutes. About the same amount of time as eating lunch for most people. Unless I'm insanely busy I'd say I get one of those done most days of the week or I replace it for a bit of a longer lunch where I get 9-10 miles of mountain biking done. But that typically takes about 1.5 hours door to door because I have to drive a bit to the trails.

[Captain FIRE]

Same.  My old job required a 0.75 mil (1.5 mile total) daily walk as part of the commute.  Teleworking I'd try to get out for a walk wiht my husband but it was around meetings so very rare and short at times.  My new job I drive in, no walk.  We try to get the kids out for a walk after work on days when they are really climbing the walls, but we don't like to do walks in the dark (see winter above), although we have done a few "flashlight" walks.

[simonsez]

As a parent, I would trade thousands of other people's lives for the life of my daughter.  Especially when doing nothing results in her being fine.  There is a big difference between adding risk to an otherwise healthy child in order to possibly protect older/immunocompromised people and actively giving a sick child a treatment that would help the child but possibly kill thousands of other people.  The latter would be a much more difficult decision.  But when making decisions regarding my daughter, I will never put her at risk for someone else.  Period.

That black and white, eh?

This is where humans are bad at statistics. First off, almost the entirety side effects of the vaccines are recoverable in young kids (and it's still a toss up between which is worse, covid or vaccines in even the most mildly affected populations). Second off, they are extremely rare- it's hardly a guarantee that your daughter or mine would get sick. It's not like you're guaranteeing it, it's just an extremely small possibility. She is in more danger ever time you put her in a car. I'll grant that there is something to be said for weighting bad outcomes from medical intervention more severely, but the probability that she will be exposed to covid makes even this argument less strong.

I was heistant on the vaccine for myself... until hundreds of thousands of people got it and statistically very few bad outcomes came of it, miraculously lower than could have been expected from any vaccine. Same for the kids- we have test populations at an astronomical scale and we are seeing incredible results. Anything we do will have some risk. Unfortunately some folks are going to just not respond as desired, which happens in medical interventions. Every single thing the medical community does has a chance at a bad outcome, and the Covid vaccienes are one of the safest.

So would you trade thousands of lives for your daughter to have a very small chance at having recoverable bad side effects? In the context of our apathetic society, I can see that there isn't much of a draw to do so, but if we were a tight knit community I'd bet it would have appeal.

https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/seventeen-year-old-washington-female-dies-from-heart-attack-weeks-after-receiving-second-pfizer-vaccination/

What do you say to those parents?  You thank them for their sacrifice because statistically, society is better off if all kids get vaccinated?  You had a healthy teenager before the vaccine (by all accounts, I didn't see anything that mentioned pre-existing conditions).  That's a tough pill.  It's one thing if an adult makes the decision for themselves but when you're doing it on behalf of someone else who is healthy and the risks to a bad case of covid are already low, I think that's the fear - even if the odds are low from vaccine complications.

-pro vax adult who is glad he doesn't have kids to have to make these types of choices

I read that link.  A 17 year old girl died after having symptomatic covid in August and five weeks after having covid vaccinations in September.    The risk of death in the year after having covid is elevated, and is higher than the risk of death after vaccination, so there is a good chance that this sad death came from the covid infection not the covid vaccination.  It might also have happened in any case: sudden death from previously undiagnosed heart conditions in teenagers is a known thing.   I don't think in that case jumping to the conclusion that the vaccine was the problem is either true or helpful.

If I mis-represented the contents of that link or if that link was withholding vital information on the causality in that case, it was not my intent at all and I apologize.  If you know that link doesn't paint the full story or that the vaccine was not a problem in that case, please share your evidence and how you came to that conclusion while avoiding the ecological fallacy.  I'd be happy to remove it if that's the case.

I'm not trying to jump to any conclusion other than to say that for a non-zero proportion of parents, there is a nuance when it comes to vaccinating their children and articles like that can give them pause.  Even if I don't share that perspective and would ultimately make different decisions if I was in that scenario, if I can see it as a logical way of thinking I can sympathize with, isn't that better than screaming "Misinformation! Anti-vaxxer!" or whatever epithet is common at the time?  I haven't heard any parent with an evil glint in their eye say that they're not vaccinating their child because they want to be nefarious in society and wreak havoc.  It is likely coming from a place of precaution, information-seeking, or at worst apathy but not malicious intent.  Adults and children do not always share the same physiological outcomes when presented with the same stimulus and the data on children is newer.

[StashingAway]

What do you say to those parents?  You thank them for their sacrifice because statistically, society is better off if all kids get vaccinated?  You had a healthy teenager before the vaccine (by all accounts, I didn't see anything that mentioned pre-existing conditions).  That's a tough pill.  It's one thing if an adult makes the decision for themselves but when you're doing it on behalf of someone else who is healthy and the risks to a bad case of covid are already low, I think that's the fear - even if the odds are low from vaccine complications.

-pro vax adult who is glad he doesn't have kids to have to make these types of choices

I don't have the time or energy to go into the issues with lay interpretation of Vaers reporting. In many ways it is doing more harm than good. Random medical events happen all the time- so when we prescribe a new medical procedure en mass, it's going to correlate with some convincing cases of cause & effect when in fact it is just coincidence. Articles like that are not proof of anything other than that we have vaccinated 200,000,000+ people in the US. If we were to offer foot massages to 200,000,000 people, there would be a certain number of people who would randomly develop a foot condition a month later and naturally want to correrlate it to the massages. The only real data to look at is to see if the cases of vaccine events are statistically higher than background cases pre-covid. None of these types of outrage/fear articles do that.

So here's the thing with medical interventions and decisions epidemiologists have to undertake. EVERY DECISION has consequences. Every medical intervention has some chance at a bad outcome. Every. Single. One. That chance varies greatly, but with most of them we have a pretty good idea of the chances of those consequences. So if a medical professional were to prescribe certain painkillers for an operation, there is a chance that you will react badly to it. And yet they prescribe them and you take them, because the net calculus shows that in general people are better taking them than not. There is no way to know beforehand if random individuals will respond poorly other than that we know that some do. For those unlucky few it is truly a disheartening event, and I would be hard pressed to offer solice as I would to any parent who lost a child. It's not a decision to take lightly, and if there were evidence if it being dangerous for teens I would absolutely be for allowing it to be a personal decision (I'm actually for it being one now- I don't think mandates help anything). But what I don't like is for that personal decision being made on poor understanding of statistics and epidemiology, which the media seems hell bent on washing over us.

As far as the vaccine goes, it still appears that the outcome is better for high school aged students to take it, although with Omicron (>99% of cases in the US), it doesn't do as much to prevent transmission as with previous variants. Interestingly, being vaccinated also appears to be less robust than having Covid itself against Omicron, so if a student already had Covid, I wouldn't even have them take the vaccine.

[StashingAway]

Ugh ugh ugh.  I hate to argue on the opposite side of what I firmly believe is important (get vaccinated!) but the ethicist in me rears it's head to say:

There is widely considered an ethical (and at times legal) distinction between action and inaction.  Standard hypothetical: The trolley will run over five people unless it is turned.  Then it will run over just one person.  Do you turn the trolley wheel?  This plays out in questions such as assisted suicide/active euthanasia/withdrawing caregiving (tube feeding)/never providing the feeding tube in the first place.

While I agree 1000x times on risk of vaccine v. COVID, regrettably the weighting the miniscule bad outcomes from medical intervention (v. larger from inaction) can be significant for some.

I might have miscommunicated, I feel that you are elaborating on points that I agree with. I completely agree on the established assumption of the difference between action and inaction, and is a primary reason I am against mandates. What I was trying to emphasize is that many people are really poor judges of the frequency and severity of the bad outcomes of the vaccine. And it is nearly impossible to tell who would respond poorly before hand as it appears random. I think this is something that could/should be solved with information and not forced medical intervention, but do think that it's significant. The article I just responded to paints a picture of a 17 year old girl dying from a vaccine, when the link has not been established, and it doesn't write 50,000 articles for all of the non-events of people getting the vaccine. Personal choices are only as good as the information they are made from.

[Captain FIRE]

Ugh ugh ugh.  I hate to argue on the opposite side of what I firmly believe is important (get vaccinated!) but the ethicist in me rears it's head to say:

There is widely considered an ethical (and at times legal) distinction between action and inaction.  Standard hypothetical: The trolley will run over five people unless it is turned.  Then it will run over just one person.  Do you turn the trolley wheel?  This plays out in questions such as assisted suicide/active euthanasia/withdrawing caregiving (tube feeding)/never providing the feeding tube in the first place.

While I agree 1000x times on risk of vaccine v. COVID, regrettably the weighting the miniscule bad outcomes from medical intervention (v. larger from inaction) can be significant for some.

I might have miscommunicated, I feel that you are elaborating on points that I agree with. I completely agree on the established assumption of the difference between action and inaction, and is a primary reason I am against mandates. What I was trying to emphasize is that many people are really poor judges of the frequency and severity of the bad outcomes of the vaccine. And it is nearly impossible to tell who would respond poorly before hand as it appears random. I think this is something that could/should be solved with information and not forced medical intervention, but do think that it's significant. The article I just responded to paints a picture of a 17 year old girl dying from a vaccine, when the link has not been established, and it doesn't write 50,000 articles for all of the non-events of people getting the vaccine. Personal choices are only as good as the information they are made from.

You didn't miscommunicate.  I bolded your text that I was elaborating on and copied some of your phrasing later in my post.  I am in favor of mandates (particularly in high risk settings)...but I do understand why they give people pause.

[Villanelle]

What do you say to those parents?  You thank them for their sacrifice because statistically, society is better off if all kids get vaccinated?  You had a healthy teenager before the vaccine (by all accounts, I didn't see anything that mentioned pre-existing conditions).  That's a tough pill.  It's one thing if an adult makes the decision for themselves but when you're doing it on behalf of someone else who is healthy and the risks to a bad case of covid are already low, I think that's the fear - even if the odds are low from vaccine complications.

-pro vax adult who is glad he doesn't have kids to have to make these types of choices

I don't have the time or energy to go into the issues with lay interpretation of Vaers reporting. In many ways it is doing more harm than good. Random medical events happen all the time- so when we prescribe a new medical procedure en mass, it's going to correlate with some convincing cases of cause & effect when in fact it is just coincidence. Articles like that are not proof of anything other than that we have vaccinated 200,000,000+ people in the US. If we were to offer foot massages to 200,000,000 people, there would be a certain number of people who would randomly develop a foot condition a month later and naturally want to correrlate it to the massages. The only real data to look at is to see if the cases of vaccine events are statistically higher than background cases pre-covid. None of these types of outrage/fear articles do that.

So here's the thing with medical interventions and decisions epidemiologists have to undertake. EVERY DECISION has consequences. Every medical intervention has some chance at a bad outcome. Every. Single. One. That chance varies greatly, but with most of them we have a pretty good idea of the chances of those consequences. So if a medical professional were to prescribe certain painkillers for an operation, there is a chance that you will react badly to it. And yet they prescribe them and you take them, because the net calculus shows that in general people are better taking them than not. There is no way to know beforehand if random individuals will respond poorly other than that we know that some do. For those unlucky few it is truly a disheartening event, and I would be hard pressed to offer solice as I would to any parent who lost a child. It's not a decision to take lightly, and if there were evidence if it being dangerous for teens I would absolutely be for allowing it to be a personal decision (I'm actually for it being one now- I don't think mandates help anything). But what I don't like is for that personal decision being made on poor understanding of statistics and epidemiology, which the media seems hell bent on washing over us.

As far as the vaccine goes, it still appears that the outcome is better for high school aged students to take it, although with Omicron (>99% of cases in the US), it doesn't do as much to prevent transmission as with previous variants. Interestingly, being vaccinated also appears to be less robust than having Covid itself against Omicron, so if a student already had Covid, I wouldn't even have them take the vaccine.

One of the adverse events for the vax study on 5-11yo was "ingested a penny". I think that, in a nutshell, explains a lot of what we are seeing in conversations about the vaccine.  (Unless someone believe that getting the vaccine actually led said child to eat a penny.)  And it also shows the difference between correlation and causation when we are looking at bad things that happened to people in the weeks and months after they got their vaccination.

I have a friend who found out shortly after her vaccination that she was pregnant.  People don't then generally assume that the shots caused pregnancy. 

Source for the penny (yes, I'm too lazy to find a primary source):
https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/vaccines-for-5-11-year-olds-fda-meeting

[Watchmaker]

https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/seventeen-year-old-washington-female-dies-from-heart-attack-weeks-after-receiving-second-pfizer-vaccination/

What do you say to those parents?  You thank them for their sacrifice because statistically, society is better off if all kids get vaccinated?  You had a healthy teenager before the vaccine (by all accounts, I didn't see anything that mentioned pre-existing conditions).  That's a tough pill.  It's one thing if an adult makes the decision for themselves but when you're doing it on behalf of someone else who is healthy and the risks to a bad case of covid are already low, I think that's the fear - even if the odds are low from vaccine complications.

-pro vax adult who is glad he doesn't have kids to have to make these types of choices

I read that link.  A 17 year old girl died after having symptomatic covid in August and five weeks after having covid vaccinations in September.    The risk of death in the year after having covid is elevated, and is higher than the risk of death after vaccination, so there is a good chance that this sad death came from the covid infection not the covid vaccination.  It might also have happened in any case: sudden death from previously undiagnosed heart conditions in teenagers is a known thing.   I don't think in that case jumping to the conclusion that the vaccine was the problem is either true or helpful.

If I mis-represented the contents of that link or if that link was withholding vital information on the causality in that case, it was not my intent at all and I apologize.  If you know that link doesn't paint the full story or that the vaccine was not a problem in that case, please share your evidence and how you came to that conclusion while avoiding the ecological fallacy.  I'd be happy to remove it if that's the case.

I'm not trying to jump to any conclusion other than to say that for a non-zero proportion of parents, there is a nuance when it comes to vaccinating their children and articles like that can give them pause.  Even if I don't share that perspective and would ultimately make different decisions if I was in that scenario, if I can see it as a logical way of thinking I can sympathize with, isn't that better than screaming "Misinformation! Anti-vaxxer!" or whatever epithet is common at the time?  I haven't heard any parent with an evil glint in their eye say that they're not vaccinating their child because they want to be nefarious in society and wreak havoc.  It is likely coming from a place of precaution, information-seeking, or at worst apathy but not malicious intent.  Adults and children do not always share the same physiological outcomes when presented with the same stimulus and the data on children is newer.

From my reading of the above, you did misrepresent the contents of the link. Reading what you wrote above without following through to the link, one might reasonably assume the story is about a teenager whose death had been medically determined to have been caused by the vaccine. This is not true; there is no evidence presented that the vaccine led to her death. The story even reports that she had Covid this summer, and we've seen an an all-causes increase in mortality following Covid infection, so she may have actually died of Covid complications.

As to the article itself-- it's poorly-researched fear-mongering, but I don't have the energy to make that argument right now.

 

[OtherJen]

https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/seventeen-year-old-washington-female-dies-from-heart-attack-weeks-after-receiving-second-pfizer-vaccination/

What do you say to those parents?  You thank them for their sacrifice because statistically, society is better off if all kids get vaccinated?  You had a healthy teenager before the vaccine (by all accounts, I didn't see anything that mentioned pre-existing conditions).  That's a tough pill.  It's one thing if an adult makes the decision for themselves but when you're doing it on behalf of someone else who is healthy and the risks to a bad case of covid are already low, I think that's the fear - even if the odds are low from vaccine complications.

-pro vax adult who is glad he doesn't have kids to have to make these types of choices

I read that link.  A 17 year old girl died after having symptomatic covid in August and five weeks after having covid vaccinations in September.    The risk of death in the year after having covid is elevated, and is higher than the risk of death after vaccination, so there is a good chance that this sad death came from the covid infection not the covid vaccination.  It might also have happened in any case: sudden death from previously undiagnosed heart conditions in teenagers is a known thing.   I don't think in that case jumping to the conclusion that the vaccine was the problem is either true or helpful.

If I mis-represented the contents of that link or if that link was withholding vital information on the causality in that case, it was not my intent at all and I apologize.  If you know that link doesn't paint the full story or that the vaccine was not a problem in that case, please share your evidence and how you came to that conclusion while avoiding the ecological fallacy.  I'd be happy to remove it if that's the case.

I'm not trying to jump to any conclusion other than to say that for a non-zero proportion of parents, there is a nuance when it comes to vaccinating their children and articles like that can give them pause.  Even if I don't share that perspective and would ultimately make different decisions if I was in that scenario, if I can see it as a logical way of thinking I can sympathize with, isn't that better than screaming "Misinformation! Anti-vaxxer!" or whatever epithet is common at the time?  I haven't heard any parent with an evil glint in their eye say that they're not vaccinating their child because they want to be nefarious in society and wreak havoc.  It is likely coming from a place of precaution, information-seeking, or at worst apathy but not malicious intent.  Adults and children do not always share the same physiological outcomes when presented with the same stimulus and the data on children is newer.

From my reading of the above, you did misrepresent the contents of the link. Reading what you wrote above without following through to the link, one might reasonable assume the story is about a teenager whose death had been medically determined to have been caused by the vaccine. This is not true; there is no evidence presented that the vaccine led to her death. The story even reports that she had Covid this summer, and we've seen an an all-causes increase in mortality following Covid infection, so she may have actually died of Covid complications.

As to the article itself-- it's poorly-researched fear-mongering, but I don't have the energy to make that argument right now.

Yes. Myocarditis is a well-known complication of even mild COVID infection at this point. The risk is higher with COVID infection than with vaccination.

[StashingAway]

If I mis-represented the contents of that link or if that link was withholding vital information on the causality in that case, it was not my intent at all and I apologize.  If you know that link doesn't paint the full story or that the vaccine was not a problem in that case, please share your evidence and how you came to that conclusion while avoiding the ecological fallacy.  I'd be happy to remove it if that's the case.

Being called upon to prove a negative is a logical fallacy. I cannot prove that her case wasn't because she was a Virgo and not a Capricorn either- it's not disprovable. And so it goes for all of those types of articles. This is why these types of articles are bad- if presented to the right people and in the right settings unchallenged, it sounds like a very reasonable set of circumstances when in fact it is bunk reasoning.

I'm not trying to jump to any conclusion other than to say that for a non-zero proportion of parents, there is a nuance when it comes to vaccinating their children and articles like that can give them pause. 

Yes, the articles give them pause because they are false representations. IF the article came out and said, "you have a 500% better chance at surviving Covid being vaccinated rather than not, it would give parents less pause" and if it said, your child has a 1/200,000 chance of having complications with the vaccine, that would give a different impression than high-lighting stories that aren't even remotely conclusively linked to the vaccine. The story is the problem here. Now, my statement might be a bit mis-leading too. If a high school student has a .02% chance of mortal covid complications, then having a vaccine that turns that into .004% isn't as significant as it is for the 1% of sixty year olds reducing their risk to .2%. Both are a 500% increase, but it the impact is higher on elder populations

[mizzourah2006]

Yes. Myocarditis is a well-known complication of even mild COVID infection at this point. The risk is higher with COVID infection than with vaccination.

I think even this statement comes with nuance. There are tons of "it depends" here. What age group are we looking at? Which vaccine are we looking at? Which dose are we looking at?

A study in nature found that the prevalence of myocarditis associated with the second dose of the Moderna vaccine in adults under 40 was significantly higher than after a covid infection and slightly less likely after the first dose of the Moderna vaccine.


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0.pdf

It's also fair to say we don't know the true denominator in total covid positives, but we do know the true denominator in covid vaccines. For example, my entire family had covid and recovered with no myocarditis symptoms, but we will be nowhere in the system as having had covid, so the true denominator of covid cases in the US is at least 4 lower than it should be. I think the reality is it is off by tens of millions +.

I'm not saying this to say Myocarditis is a huge issue in either the vaccine or covid, just to say that one study in nature said it depends (which I feel like most people have completely forgotten is literally the answer to almost all of science) and a simple understanding of math would suggest that at the very least covid cases in the US are severely undercounted, thus the denominator which is crucial to an accurate calculation of probability, is significantly off.

Thus to state with absolute certainty that every single person is more likely to get myocarditis from covid than the vaccine is false.

[simonsez]

What do you say to those parents?  You thank them for their sacrifice because statistically, society is better off if all kids get vaccinated?  You had a healthy teenager before the vaccine (by all accounts, I didn't see anything that mentioned pre-existing conditions).  That's a tough pill.  It's one thing if an adult makes the decision for themselves but when you're doing it on behalf of someone else who is healthy and the risks to a bad case of covid are already low, I think that's the fear - even if the odds are low from vaccine complications.

-pro vax adult who is glad he doesn't have kids to have to make these types of choices

I read that link.  A 17 year old girl died after having symptomatic covid in August and five weeks after having covid vaccinations in September.    The risk of death in the year after having covid is elevated, and is higher than the risk of death after vaccination, so there is a good chance that this sad death came from the covid infection not the covid vaccination.  It might also have happened in any case: sudden death from previously undiagnosed heart conditions in teenagers is a known thing.   I don't think in that case jumping to the conclusion that the vaccine was the problem is either true or helpful.

If I mis-represented the contents of that link or if that link was withholding vital information on the causality in that case, it was not my intent at all and I apologize.  If you know that link doesn't paint the full story or that the vaccine was not a problem in that case, please share your evidence and how you came to that conclusion while avoiding the ecological fallacy.  I'd be happy to remove it if that's the case.

I'm not trying to jump to any conclusion other than to say that for a non-zero proportion of parents, there is a nuance when it comes to vaccinating their children and articles like that can give them pause.  Even if I don't share that perspective and would ultimately make different decisions if I was in that scenario, if I can see it as a logical way of thinking I can sympathize with, isn't that better than screaming "Misinformation! Anti-vaxxer!" or whatever epithet is common at the time?  I haven't heard any parent with an evil glint in their eye say that they're not vaccinating their child because they want to be nefarious in society and wreak havoc.  It is likely coming from a place of precaution, information-seeking, or at worst apathy but not malicious intent.  Adults and children do not always share the same physiological outcomes when presented with the same stimulus and the data on children is newer.

From my reading of the above, you did misrepresent the contents of the link. Reading what you wrote above without following through to the link, one might reasonably assume the story is about a teenager whose death had been medically determined to have been caused by the vaccine. This is not true; there is no evidence presented that the vaccine led to her death. The story even reports that she had Covid this summer, and we've seen an an all-causes increase in mortality following Covid infection, so she may have actually died of Covid complications.

As to the article itself-- it's poorly-researched fear-mongering, but I don't have the energy to make that argument right now.

Why would anyone express a formed opinion without following through to the link*?  That seems pre-emptive.  You call it fear-mongering but I didn't leave the article with that impression.  Now maybe I thought "Man, there is a lot of death right now" and "COVID stinks!"  To me, it was just a collection of statements and numbers and the occasional quote (some of which were very pro-vaccine!).  Even the comments at the bottom were a wide-ranging mix of various statement and opinions - and you go in expecting comments to be somewhat of a cesspool.  I didn't feel there was enough information about some of these cases to warrant much of an opinion in relation to vaccines and their safety.  The article wasn't saying to disregard the statistics we have but then again I'm not a conspiracy person so I will generally trust what the medical experts pass along - and even if I was, I'm not a medical doctor.  I only linked to the article in the first place in response that some people are black and white while others have shades of gray in their decision-making process surrounding covid.  Whether right or wrong for statistical, ethical, emotional, whatever category of reasons - some parents want more information or have cautions regarding the vaccine for their children.  Stories like the one I linked are real and an article will likely never share the whole story.  Yes, the odds are the vaccine did not cause that one person to die but we don't know the whole story and for some parents, they want more.

* I'd love to live in a society where you didn't express your opinion until you did your homework (you can have your opinion but if you don't know enough, it's OKAY to remain quiet).  It seems the lowest common denominator for reading comprehension forms the backbone of the court of public opinion.  Why?  Isn't that dangerous?  Remember the Rittenhouse/Kenosha stuff?  Isn't it wild with the distortion the political media used, that the vast majority of Democrats thought conviction was the proper end result while the vast majority of Republicans thought acquittal should be the decision.  My guess is most people voting in these Dem/Repub polls didn't know all the facts of the case (wasn't it alleged that Rittenhouse killed black people at first??!!) and just went with whatever side their curated media told them to.  That bothers me.

I grant that looking at just the URL without clicking does look like it has an unhelpful agenda, I just noticed that now actually.  Hmm, yeah that is troublesome.  I don't think I misrepresented anything nor was I anti-vaccine at all but will take it down because that URL is admittedly garbage and misleading.

[Watchmaker]

Why would anyone express a formed opinion without following through to the link*?  That seems pre-emptive.

While I would hope that no one would do that (in fact, I hope no one would form an opinion after only having read this article), I think the reality is that not everyone is going to read all of the links people post. To me, the text you wrote after the link to the article was a misrepresentation of what the article actually said. "You thank them for their sacrifice" and "You had a healthy teenager before the vaccine" sure sounds to me like you're concluding the vaccine was to blame, without saying so explicitly. We have no evidence for that. The article doesn't try to do that. What the article does is collect a bunch of data of varying degrees of quality and relevancy in a way that shows little to no understanding of the facts or complexities of the situation. Poor journalism, though perhaps I should have said irresponsible rather than fear-mongering.

I think it's clear that there is complexity and nuance to the decisions parents are making, and we don't have enough high quality data to make the right choice obvious for all situations. And I have no problem discussing that, but if that conversation doesn't start from the best data we have available, I don't think it can be fruitful.

I grant that looking at just the URL without clicking does look like it has an unhelpful agenda, I just noticed that now actually.  Hmm, yeah that is troublesome.  I don't think I misrepresented anything nor was I anti-vaccine at all but will take it down because that URL is admittedly garbage and misleading.

I appreciate you considering that.

[Cranky]

Well, cases are coming down sharply here, so we will pick up where we left off at the end of December - we’ll go back to in-person church this weekend and I’ll go back to my knitting group in the library next week. I might see about volunteering in the school.

If cases go up, we’ll re-evaluate.

[Raj]

Personally I've been triple vaccinated as well, and have gone to the level where if it wasn't so cold, I'd be OK with not wearing a Mask in Public again.

That said even if it wasn't a requirement, I put on my mask for any time I enter a store, as it'll be a much more compressed place with a lot of people, in comparison to the sidewalk, and of course do so whenever required.

Similarly, I pretty much never wear a mask at home unless I'm sick and want to avoid my room-mates sharing it, or I'm cooking something like Onions.

As for Exercise, I've honestly exercised far more during Covid than I did before it, as I've set up habits with my VR helping to ensure that I exercise in my room daily.

I do miss the Gym on Occasion, mostly because they had a much greater set of weights and machines, but most likely I'll simply expand on my own equipment in time and buy/set up something to do Pull-Up's, and perhaps buy some more diverse weights rather than just my 15LB and 35LB Barbells.

[FIRE Artist]

I work in healthcare (not a frontline worker), I will be going back to normal once hospital admissions are down.  Right now we have the highest admissions of the pandemic, so it will be a while, even though I suspect that the mandates where I live will be lifted very soon.  I did a big grocery shop this weekend while mask mandates are still in place.  At this point, lifting of restrictions are political and not being driven by what makes sense for public health at all.

[Cawl]

I never left "normal." I was in the middle of a renovation so didn't have a lot of excess money and spent weekends working on it. A mask wasn't really inconvenient when compared to that.

[Just Joe]

I live in the south. Low vac rates here. Masks = freedom and all that jazz.

Our vac'd teen and 20-something caught it. Hardly a cough or sniffle between them. DW and I didn't seem to get it and tested negative. DW and I are triple vac'd.

We still mask in the grocery store. DW masks far more often than I do elsewhere. At work for me life is back to normal. DW still wears her mask except in her office. I avoid being too close to anyone for any length of time.

We still don't visit restaurants although we've been a few times in the past couple of years b/c of visiting friends or family who never really stopped going out. We do bring home carry out occasionally.

Our county is close to peaking out - again. I hope this is the last round. Wish more folks here would get their shots but maybe natural immunity will protect them and us b/c so many of them have been sick at this point. I have a coworker that has had it three times. He waves it off but he was pretty sick when he came to work anyhow... -eye roller-

[former player]

This charming little article suggests (early days yet, so nothing certain but definitely indicators present) that having covid-19 could increase the chances of getting Parkinsons disease, Type 1 diabetes and/or Guillain–Barré Syndrome.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220127-could-covid-19-still-be-affecting-us-in-decades-to-come?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

I'm not throwing my masks away just yet, then.

[FIRE Artist]

This charming little article suggests (early days yet, so nothing certain but definitely indicators present) that having covid-19 could increase the chances of getting Parkinsons disease, Type 1 diabetes and/or Guillain–Barré Syndrome.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220127-could-covid-19-still-be-affecting-us-in-decades-to-come?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

I'm not throwing my masks away just yet, then.

One good thing I have heard lately is that the increased prevalence of long COVID has finally shone a research light on long term impacts of infections that historically have affected women more than men and therefore are ignored by big pharma and health providers. 

But yeah, long COVID has been my big deterrent, if I am dead, I am dead, but I sure as hell am going to do all I reasonably can to avoid getting long COVID complications which means not getting it in the first place. 

[Paper Chaser]

This charming little article suggests (early days yet, so nothing certain but definitely indicators present) that having covid-19 could increase the chances of getting Parkinsons disease, Type 1 diabetes and/or Guillain–Barré Syndrome.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220127-could-covid-19-still-be-affecting-us-in-decades-to-come?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

I'm not throwing my masks away just yet, then.

Lots of common viral infections can lead to auto-immune disorders. Even influenza:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7990414/

As FIRE Artist correctly pointed out, auto-immune disorders (from all origins) tend to occur more frequently in females than males which has hindered widespread research.

[jrhampt]

Well.  Technically it's sexism that has hindered research on this, not the fact that more women get it than men.

[wenchsenior]

This charming little article suggests (early days yet, so nothing certain but definitely indicators present) that having covid-19 could increase the chances of getting Parkinsons disease, Type 1 diabetes and/or Guillain–Barré Syndrome.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220127-could-covid-19-still-be-affecting-us-in-decades-to-come?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

I'm not throwing my masks away just yet, then.

One good thing I have heard lately is that the increased prevalence of long COVID has finally shone a research light on long term impacts of infections that historically have affected women more than men and therefore are ignored by big pharma and health providers. 

But yeah, long COVID has been my big deterrent, if I am dead, I am dead, but I sure as hell am going to do all I reasonably can to avoid getting long COVID complications which means not getting it in the first place.

As someone who developed multiple autoimmune problems in my 40s, and who suffered a particularly severe flare of symptoms very similar to the Long Covid or Guillain-Barre type stuff that's been reported in response to a barely noticeable 'cold' about 5 years ago, which then was partly disabling for almost a full year, I am THRILLED that this stuff is finally going to be taken more seriously.  Doctor after doctor kept telling me I just needed antidepressants, until I went mostly bald with rupturing cysts on my scalp and a full body rash that lasted for most of a year. That finally shut them up, when the racing/erratic heart, horrible neurological symptoms, muscle weakness, etc. never impressed them. Those were 'just due to stress'.

It appears that reproductive hormones are likely one of the reasons women struggle with autoimmunity more than men. Research is purely anecdotal, but in my particular case of n = 1, even very mildly elevated prolactin is for sure one of my flare triggers. For unknown reasons, I have chronically high prolactin, and most endos won't prescribe meds for it (not high enough to scare them) until they see me in the midst of a flare. Then I take low-dose meds to suppress prolactin and the flare stops.  I am so glad I never wanted to have kids, b/c I would have been fucked by the hormone changes if I had.

On the plus side, I just caught Covid over the New Year, despite being ultra paranoid about masking and distancing and not socializing (for obvious reasons).  It was super mild (I'm 3x vaxed) and I'm just about to get out of the worst of the post viral 'danger zone' (2-4 weeks after a virus) without much of a flare.  I got one scalp cyst and the beginnings of a rash, but it subsided with topical steroids after a few days.

I have noticed some weird memory issues since I got sick though.  I don't feel foggy or tired, but I'm having regular episodes of absolutely blanking out on words I'm trying to say/remember.  That's a bit disturbing.

Who knows if I'm now gonna get some much worse autoimmune illness down the road...but that's clearly already a risk for me anyway.

[Captain FIRE]

I have noticed some weird memory issues since I got sick though.  I don't feel foggy or tired, but I'm having regular episodes of absolutely blanking out on words I'm trying to say/remember.  That's a bit disturbing.

Is this a legit side effect?  My spouse has worried about this with our just turned 5 year old, who got COVID over the summer but I attributed it to being a kid.  He has a large vocabulary but sometimes struggles to find words.

[Just Joe]

I have noticed some weird memory issues since I got sick though.  I don't feel foggy or tired, but I'm having regular episodes of absolutely blanking out on words I'm trying to say/remember.  That's a bit disturbing.

Yes!

Hope this is temporary. A few months at worst.

[Kris]

I have noticed some weird memory issues since I got sick though.  I don't feel foggy or tired, but I'm having regular episodes of absolutely blanking out on words I'm trying to say/remember.  That's a bit disturbing.

Is this a legit side effect?  My spouse has worried about this with our just turned 5 year old, who got COVID over the summer but I attributed it to being a kid.  He has a large vocabulary but sometimes struggles to find words.

I've seen reports of this from a variety of sources.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/many-covid-patients-have-memory-problems-months-later-new-study-n1282189

[jrhampt]

I have noticed some weird memory issues since I got sick though.  I don't feel foggy or tired, but I'm having regular episodes of absolutely blanking out on words I'm trying to say/remember.  That's a bit disturbing.

Is this a legit side effect?  My spouse has worried about this with our just turned 5 year old, who got COVID over the summer but I attributed it to being a kid.  He has a large vocabulary but sometimes struggles to find words.

Yes.  The brain fog side effect is definitely real and can be shocking to see.  My parents had covid back in September and my Dad still has issues with this, although they've improved from the first couple of months when they couldn't figure out how to use their phones etc.

[OtherJen]

I have noticed some weird memory issues since I got sick though.  I don't feel foggy or tired, but I'm having regular episodes of absolutely blanking out on words I'm trying to say/remember.  That's a bit disturbing.

Is this a legit side effect?  My spouse has worried about this with our just turned 5 year old, who got COVID over the summer but I attributed it to being a kid.  He has a large vocabulary but sometimes struggles to find words.

Yes.  The brain fog side effect is definitely real and can be shocking to see.  My parents had covid back in September and my Dad still has issues with this, although they've improved from the first couple of months when they couldn't figure out how to use their phones etc.

My husband (mid-40s) is having some new problems with short-term memory since having COVID a few weeks ago. It's a concern, as Alzheimer's runs in his family.

[mm1970]

I have noticed some weird memory issues since I got sick though.  I don't feel foggy or tired, but I'm having regular episodes of absolutely blanking out on words I'm trying to say/remember.  That's a bit disturbing.

Is this a legit side effect?  My spouse has worried about this with our just turned 5 year old, who got COVID over the summer but I attributed it to being a kid.  He has a large vocabulary but sometimes struggles to find words.

Our 19 year old dog sitter had the brain fog for at least a few weeks, maybe longer.

[startingsmall]

I definitely had brain fog with a mild case of COVID (no fever or respiratory signs - just headache & fatigue) back in August 2020.

I'm a freelance writer and didn't see any reason to mention my COVID case to my clients, because I work remotely and was still able to meet my deadlines. When it came up in conversation with one my clients a month or two later, though, he said he was relieved to hear it... because he had noticed such a change in my writing quality (more typos, grammatical errors, etc.) in the preceding month that he was worried that I had a brain tumor or something more serious. I feel like I mostly regained normal brainpower over the following 3-4 months.

[wenchsenior]

I have noticed some weird memory issues since I got sick though.  I don't feel foggy or tired, but I'm having regular episodes of absolutely blanking out on words I'm trying to say/remember.  That's a bit disturbing.

Is this a legit side effect?  My spouse has worried about this with our just turned 5 year old, who got COVID over the summer but I attributed it to being a kid.  He has a large vocabulary but sometimes struggles to find words.

Yes.  The brain fog side effect is definitely real and can be shocking to see.  My parents had covid back in September and my Dad still has issues with this, although they've improved from the first couple of months when they couldn't figure out how to use their phones etc.

My husband (mid-40s) is having some new problems with short-term memory since having COVID a few weeks ago. It's a concern, as Alzheimer's runs in his family.

Another manifestation I'm having is almost like stroke effect:  when writing by hand (not typing), when I mean to write '1,' I often write 'T'...even if I try not to. I have to concentrate hard to get it correct.  It's very weird, esp considering how mild my case was.

I really hope this is temporary b/c my job is editing.

[OtherJen]

I have noticed some weird memory issues since I got sick though.  I don't feel foggy or tired, but I'm having regular episodes of absolutely blanking out on words I'm trying to say/remember.  That's a bit disturbing.

Is this a legit side effect?  My spouse has worried about this with our just turned 5 year old, who got COVID over the summer but I attributed it to being a kid.  He has a large vocabulary but sometimes struggles to find words.

Yes.  The brain fog side effect is definitely real and can be shocking to see.  My parents had covid back in September and my Dad still has issues with this, although they've improved from the first couple of months when they couldn't figure out how to use their phones etc.

My husband (mid-40s) is having some new problems with short-term memory since having COVID a few weeks ago. It's a concern, as Alzheimer's runs in his family.

Another manifestation I'm having is almost like stroke effect:  when writing by hand (not typing), when I mean to write '1,' I often write 'T'...even if I try not to. I have to concentrate hard to get it correct.  It's very weird, esp considering how mild my case was.

I really hope this is temporary b/c my job is editing.

Now I'm concerned. I'm also an editor. I wonder if I should have one of the other managers spot-check my work to make sure I'm not missing anything.

[startingsmall]

I have noticed some weird memory issues since I got sick though.  I don't feel foggy or tired, but I'm having regular episodes of absolutely blanking out on words I'm trying to say/remember.  That's a bit disturbing.

Is this a legit side effect?  My spouse has worried about this with our just turned 5 year old, who got COVID over the summer but I attributed it to being a kid.  He has a large vocabulary but sometimes struggles to find words.

Yes.  The brain fog side effect is definitely real and can be shocking to see.  My parents had covid back in September and my Dad still has issues with this, although they've improved from the first couple of months when they couldn't figure out how to use their phones etc.

My husband (mid-40s) is having some new problems with short-term memory since having COVID a few weeks ago. It's a concern, as Alzheimer's runs in his family.

Another manifestation I'm having is almost like stroke effect:  when writing by hand (not typing), when I mean to write '1,' I often write 'T'...even if I try not to. I have to concentrate hard to get it correct.  It's very weird, esp considering how mild my case was.

I really hope this is temporary b/c my job is editing.

Now I'm concerned. I'm also an editor. I wonder if I should have one of the other managers spot-check my work to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Probably not a bad idea if you've recently had COVID. My writing rarely needs editing (according to most of my clients), but they caught a lot of errors those first few months.

[Captain FIRE]

Hmm.  It's been 6 months since infection for my son, so hopefully the brain fog, if he has one, goes away.

[trc4897]

Hmm.  It's been 6 months since infection for my son, so hopefully the brain fog, if he has one, goes away.

I would have to think brain fog is a real but pretty rare side effect. My wife and I had it, as well as my brother in early December. We all had very minor cases and definitely no brain fog. I have not heard this concern from any of my close friends who have gotten it either.

Surprisingly, the only time I felt like I had brain fog was around this time last year after my first vaccine dose. By the time I got the second dose it had gone away though.

[former player]

Hmm.  It's been 6 months since infection for my son, so hopefully the brain fog, if he has one, goes away.

I would have to think brain fog is a real but pretty rare side effect. My wife and I had it, as well as my brother in early December. We all had very minor cases and definitely no brain fog. I have not heard this concern from any of my close friends who have gotten it either.

Surprisingly, the only time I felt like I had brain fog was around this time last year after my first vaccine dose. By the time I got the second dose it had gone away though.

It can't be that rare, it's fourth on an NHS list of long covid symptoms -

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/long-term-effects-of-coronavirus-long-covid/

I expect there would be a social inhibition in widely publicising problems with brain function, particularly by someone who relies on their brain function for their income.

[wenchsenior]

I have noticed some weird memory issues since I got sick though.  I don't feel foggy or tired, but I'm having regular episodes of absolutely blanking out on words I'm trying to say/remember.  That's a bit disturbing.

Is this a legit side effect?  My spouse has worried about this with our just turned 5 year old, who got COVID over the summer but I attributed it to being a kid.  He has a large vocabulary but sometimes struggles to find words.

Yes.  The brain fog side effect is definitely real and can be shocking to see.  My parents had covid back in September and my Dad still has issues with this, although they've improved from the first couple of months when they couldn't figure out how to use their phones etc.

My husband (mid-40s) is having some new problems with short-term memory since having COVID a few weeks ago. It's a concern, as Alzheimer's runs in his family.

Another manifestation I'm having is almost like stroke effect:  when writing by hand (not typing), when I mean to write '1,' I often write 'T'...even if I try not to. I have to concentrate hard to get it correct.  It's very weird, esp considering how mild my case was.

I really hope this is temporary b/c my job is editing.

Now I'm concerned. I'm also an editor. I wonder if I should have one of the other managers spot-check my work to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Probably not a bad idea if you've recently had COVID. My writing rarely needs editing (according to most of my clients), but they caught a lot of errors those first few months.

Shit. I'm about to turn in a 120-page monograph. Though I had trouble working on it as fast as usual, I didn't feel more hare-brained than usual. Now I'm wondering if I'd even notice my own errors. And there's no one to check a paper this long; it's too specialized a topic and too much of a time imposition. Bleh.

[startingsmall]

I have noticed some weird memory issues since I got sick though.  I don't feel foggy or tired, but I'm having regular episodes of absolutely blanking out on words I'm trying to say/remember.  That's a bit disturbing.

Is this a legit side effect?  My spouse has worried about this with our just turned 5 year old, who got COVID over the summer but I attributed it to being a kid.  He has a large vocabulary but sometimes struggles to find words.

Yes.  The brain fog side effect is definitely real and can be shocking to see.  My parents had covid back in September and my Dad still has issues with this, although they've improved from the first couple of months when they couldn't figure out how to use their phones etc.

My husband (mid-40s) is having some new problems with short-term memory since having COVID a few weeks ago. It's a concern, as Alzheimer's runs in his family.

Another manifestation I'm having is almost like stroke effect:  when writing by hand (not typing), when I mean to write '1,' I often write 'T'...even if I try not to. I have to concentrate hard to get it correct.  It's very weird, esp considering how mild my case was.

I really hope this is temporary b/c my job is editing.

Now I'm concerned. I'm also an editor. I wonder if I should have one of the other managers spot-check my work to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Probably not a bad idea if you've recently had COVID. My writing rarely needs editing (according to most of my clients), but they caught a lot of errors those first few months.

Shit. I'm about to turn in a 120-page monograph. Though I had trouble working on it as fast as usual, I didn't feel more hare-brained than usual. Now I'm wondering if I'd even notice my own errors. And there's no one to check a paper this long; it's too specialized a topic and too much of a time imposition. Bleh.

FWIW, I definitely was aware that I was having trouble concentrating. I thought I had caught all my errors when I submitted articles but, at the same time, I was aware that it was taking more mental effort than usual.

[mrsnamemustache]

Important to keep in mind that experiences like forgetting words are common with and without Covid, and you may just notice those experiences more if you are paying attention due to worries about Covid effects. This is NOT me saying it isn’t real in some people, but it is also undeniable that some people will notice cognitive issues more and attribute it to Covid even if it is not directly from it.

[The 585]

Important to keep in mind that experiences like forgetting words are common with and without Covid, and you may just notice those experiences more if you are paying attention due to worries about Covid effects. This is NOT me saying it isn’t real in some people, but it is also undeniable that some people will notice cognitive issues more and attribute it to Covid even if it is not directly from it.

+1

That whole string of comments upthread looks like a bit of unnecessary paranoia if you ask me. Myself and everyone I know who had covid have none of these "brain fog" issues.

[Abe]

Some cognitive deficits are seen after covid infection, and are somewhat associated with severity of illness. The actual incidence of this is not known, but does occur.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2785388 (ignore the percentages, there will be selection bias due to the nature of the study. More important are the odds ratios, which are still somewhat subject to selection bias but less so).

[jim555]

New York mask mandate is over today.  85% (18+) are triple vaxxed, 95%  (18+) have at least one dose.

[former player]

Brain fog from covid is obviously real, and obviously not rare.  Studies suggest that many people recover from long covid within a few months and most within a year.

It is also possible that the effects of isolation, if it has come with a reduction in communication, especially in-person speaking, might also leave someone's word-finding skills a bit rusty, something that would right itself with a return to normal socialisation.

[mizzourah2006]

Important to keep in mind that experiences like forgetting words are common with and without Covid, and you may just notice those experiences more if you are paying attention due to worries about Covid effects. This is NOT me saying it isn’t real in some people, but it is also undeniable that some people will notice cognitive issues more and attribute it to Covid even if it is not directly from it.

This is what i'm wondering. Working from home for an extended period of time can do a number on your communicative skills as can stress, which I'm sure we've all had our fair share of during this pandemic, especially those of us with kiddos. I've noticed since I've been working from home I find myself in conversations drawing a blank on words that just happen to be at the tip of my tongue. I've noticed this both before and after getting covid, but I could totally see how you notice it more after getting covid when people say brain fog is a common symptom of long covid.

[HPstache]

New York mask mandate is over today.  85% (18+) are triple vaxxed, 95%  (18+) have at least one dose.

Outdoor?  Indoor?  Public transportation?

[jim555]

New York mask mandate is over today.  85% (18+) are triple vaxxed, 95%  (18+) have at least one dose.

Outdoor?  Indoor?  Public transportation?

https://www.lawandtheworkplace.com/2022/02/governor-hochul-lifts-new-york-state-indoor-mask-mandate/

[wenchsenior]

Important to keep in mind that experiences like forgetting words are common with and without Covid, and you may just notice those experiences more if you are paying attention due to worries about Covid effects. This is NOT me saying it isn’t real in some people, but it is also undeniable that some people will notice cognitive issues more and attribute it to Covid even if it is not directly from it.

This is what i'm wondering. Working from home for an extended period of time can do a number on your communicative skills as can stress, which I'm sure we've all had our fair share of during this pandemic, especially those of us with kiddos. I've noticed since I've been working from home I find myself in conversations drawing a blank on words that just happen to be at the tip of my tongue. I've noticed this both before and after getting covid, but I could totally see how you notice it more after getting covid when people say brain fog is a common symptom of long covid.

Selective noticing could definitely be occurring, but whatever is occurring isn't being affected in my case by Covid related isolation. I've worked from home with little socialization for more than 10 years, and our lifestyle barely changed at all during the pandemic. Same job, as well, so I definitely do notice times when I'm struggling more with my regular job tasks.

[startingsmall]

Important to keep in mind that experiences like forgetting words are common with and without Covid, and you may just notice those experiences more if you are paying attention due to worries about Covid effects. This is NOT me saying it isn’t real in some people, but it is also undeniable that some people will notice cognitive issues more and attribute it to Covid even if it is not directly from it.

This is what i'm wondering. Working from home for an extended period of time can do a number on your communicative skills as can stress, which I'm sure we've all had our fair share of during this pandemic, especially those of us with kiddos. I've noticed since I've been working from home I find myself in conversations drawing a blank on words that just happen to be at the tip of my tongue. I've noticed this both before and after getting covid, but I could totally see how you notice it more after getting covid when people say brain fog is a common symptom of long covid.

Selective noticing could definitely be occurring, but whatever is occurring isn't being affected in my case by Covid related isolation. I've worked from home with little socialization for more than 10 years, and our lifestyle barely changed at all during the pandemic. Same job, as well, so I definitely do notice times when I'm struggling more with my regular job tasks.

Same. I'm no longer struggling with any memory issues, but they occurred while I was still working in-person on my normal schedule. My daughter being home was a difference, but she had already been home for five months at that point and the issues went away within a few months of COVID. Not saying it's impossible that my client's observations and my own confusion were just coincidence, but it seems unlikely.

[HPstache]

Google search trends for loss of smell follow the peaks of covid, but brain fog does not.  To me this is a small piece of evidence that they might not be as related as some would like to believe.  However, brain fog has been heavily searched since the beginning of 2022 which may suggest it is only Omicron related, that it now just has a name, or that people are really concerned about it because they are reading about it but it existed just as much before.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=brain%20fog

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=loss%20of%20smell

[GuitarStv]

Google search trends for loss of smell follow the peaks of covid, but brain fog does not.  To me this is a small piece of evidence that they might not be as related as some would like to believe.  However, brain fog has been heavily searched since the beginning of 2022 which may suggest it is only Omicron related, that it now just has a name, or that people are really concerned about it because they are reading about it but it existed just as much before.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=brain%20fog

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=loss%20of%20smell

Your search strings might be impacted by the fact that 'brain fog' isn't a clearly defined condition.  'Loss of smell' is.




https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00324-2/fulltext

This study in the lancet was done during 2020 describes:

People who had recovered from COVID-19, including those no longer reporting symptoms, exhibited significant cognitive deficits versus controls when controlling for age, gender, education level, income, racial-ethnic group, pre-existing medical disorders, tiredness, depression and anxiety. The deficits were of substantial effect size for people who had been hospitalised (N = 192), but also for non-hospitalised cases who had biological confirmation of COVID-19 infection (N = 326). Analysing markers of premorbid intelligence did not support these differences being present prior to infection. Finer grained analysis of performance across sub-tests supported the hypothesis that COVID-19 has a multi-domain impact on human cognition.

This study (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2785388) from late 2021 found:

In this study, we found a relatively high frequency of cognitive impairment several months after patients contracted COVID-19. Impairments in executive functioning, processing speed, category fluency, memory encoding, and recall were predominant among hospitalized patients. The relative sparing of memory recognition in the context of impaired encoding and recall suggests an executive pattern. This pattern is consistent with early reports describing a dysexecutive syndrome after COVID-19 and has considerable implications for occupational, psychological, and functional outcomes. It is well known that certain populations (eg, older adults) may be particularly susceptible to cognitive impairment after critical illness5; however, in the relatively young cohort in the present study, a substantial proportion exhibited cognitive dysfunction several months after recovering from COVID-19.

This is a pre-print meta analysis (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00324-2/fulltext) of covid studies reports:

A significant proportion of individuals experience persistent fatigue and/or cognitive impairment following resolution of acute COVID-19. The frequency and debilitating nature of the foregoing symptoms provides the impetus to characterize the underlying neurobiological substrates and how to best treat these phenomena.]A significant proportion of individuals experience persistent fatigue and/or cognitive impairment following resolution of acute COVID-19. The frequency and debilitating nature of the foregoing symptoms provides the impetus to characterize the underlying neurobiological substrates and how to best treat these phenomena.

There's another meta analysis here (https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2021.699582/full) reporting much the same. 

There is a lot of data out there about this.  It seems that cognitive problems are pretty common with covid survivors, and have existed during the periods of alpha, delta, and omicron.