When to get a "new" car vs running the old one into the ground? Any recs?

[purplish]

Unfortunately the past couple years my car has started having more issues.  I'm wondering since it's only 9 years old, should I just keep it till it won't run, or should I get a "new" (used) car instead.  What experiences have you had about when is the best time to let go?  Also, any thoughts on what cars you'd recommend?  I currently have a Honda Fit, which is one of the cars that MM recommends.  However when I asked my mechanic if he thinks I should get another Fit, he said no he wouldn't recommend it.  I'd love a very similar car- good gas mileage, hatchback, small.  Also please don't recommend I not have a car, I drive for work. Also since I drive for work, I need something very dependable.  My SO suggested I try leasing cars, that in the end it wouldn't cost more since I'd never have to fix it or buy new ones, but this sounds like an awful idea to me (then again I know nothing about leasing cars, other than it just sounds like a money waster).

[Travis]

My SO suggested I try leasing cars, that in the end it wouldn't cost more since I'd never have to fix it or buy new ones, but this sounds like an awful idea to me (then again I know nothing about leasing cars, other than it just sounds like a money waster).

You're right to think it's an awful idea. It's equivalent to having a car payment indefinitely.  I haven't had to replace a run-into-the-ground car yet, but I would think when your repair costs are starting to approach the cost of a replacement vehicle that is a good time to pull the trigger on it.

[Syonyk]

What problems are you having, specifically?

[SeattleStache]

I'm interested in responses as well since my 15 year old car is also facing some more pricey repairs. My mechanic is doing a good job keeping it going with minimal work but it probably needs around $2,500 to be fixed up whereas I could sell it for around the same price and look for a $7,000-$8,000 "new" car. Sounds like we'd be looking for a similar type of replacement car so I will be following with interest!

[Northwestie]

9 years old is not old -- unless you have 300k on it, have ridden it hard and put it away wet -- so to speak.

The typical formula is -- are the repairs costing you more than would a car payment - even if you are going to pay cash.  I also would advise never buying a brand new car.  Loses at least 15% by rolling off the lot.  I generally buy low mileage cars (< 35k) from brokers, individuals, and one off the lot.  Have your mechanic give it a once over before buying.

My '98 subie has 200k and I think it will easily get 275k before I consider replacing it.

[slugline]

Did your mechanic elaborate on the recommendation against the Fit? I'm already thinking about what I should drive after parting ways with my current 16-year-old 250,000-mile Honda, and a Fit is high on my list of candidates.

[tobitonic]

The Fit's a good little hatch, as is the Yaris.

[flyingaway]

When annual repairing cost > 4%*(new car price) + additional insurance cost + additional registration cost.

[purplish]

Well, somehow the axle broke, TWICE in the past 2 years!  Everyone I talk to says this is very weird as I haven't hit anything/done anything crazy with the car.  The mechanic said that with that year of the Fit, the axle is very thin, so I'm wondering if that axle is just not made well?  In which case, is this going to keep happening?  The car is also showing codes for the transmission and catalytic converter, which would be $1,500 or more to replace which IMO would be a waste.  I wonder if this is all just wear and tear from driving for work for many years, or if this model (the first Fit) maybe just has some issues?

[gimp]

How the hell did you break an axle? Which part of the axle broke?

Cats are pretty expensive to replace, just because of component cost.

Automatic transmissions mostly run on magic, and the labor to replace one is high unless you can do it yourself.


If we assume you can replace the car with a car that _is not_ breaking, then the math is: is it cheaper to pay repairs or to pay for the new used car?

Since that assumption is unlikely to hold, the real math is: is it cheaper to pay repairs for the current car, or to pay for the new used car and repairs for that?

(Let's assume both cars are cheap beaters so the regular maintenance cost is equivalent.)



Also, 9 years is not an old car. A well treated 9 year old car still drives like reasonably new. And if you're handy, you'd be amazed what new bushings, ball joints, and struts can do.

[Monkey Uncle]

When annual repairing cost > 4%*(new car price) + additional insurance cost + additional registration cost.

Flyingaway, can you elaborate on the rationale behind your formula?

[rachael talcott]

2007 (2016-9) was a bad year for the FIT: http://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/Fit/.  As you can see, the 2014 FIT has low complaints, but would be pretty expensive. 

The Toyota Matrix is a comparable car and has had some good years in the range you'd be looking: http://www.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/Matrix/.  The 2011 Matrix is good, but also old enough to be more reasonably priced.

[FrugalHawk]

So, I have a slightly different perspective. I used to be a "drive it into the ground" person. Everyone around me used to tease me about my old crap car and I didn't give a ****, it was costing me so little because I maintained it well. Then, in the fall of 2014 my brother was killed by a drunk driver. At 4pm, in broad daylight. After that, driving my 14 year old car felt like a deathtrap on the Los Angeles freeways. I hated driving it, and no amount of rational thinking made me feel any better. So I started looking and chose the car I wanted based on safety ratings and then started looking at slightly used (2-4 years old). What I found is that, due to my great credit and bargaining skills I could purchase a brand new car for less than the cost of a few years old used car. So that's what I did. Was this a mustaschian purchase? Hell no. But I've never regretted it, and I'm mustachian about everything else. Driving a car is the most dangerous thing I do in my life and after seeing what I've seen, I would make the same choice (to get something newer and safer) every time. I would rather drive one newer car in my household than 2 older cars.

[tobitonic]

So, I have a slightly different perspective. I used to be a "drive it into the ground" person. Everyone around me used to tease me about my old crap car and I didn't give a ****, it was costing me so little because I maintained it well. Then, in the fall of 2014 my brother was killed by a drunk driver. At 4pm, in broad daylight. After that, driving my 14 year old car felt like a deathtrap on the Los Angeles freeways. I hated driving it, and no amount of rational thinking made me feel any better. So I started looking and chose the car I wanted based on safety ratings and then started looking at slightly used (2-4 years old). What I found is that, due to my great credit and bargaining skills I could purchase a brand new car for less than the cost of a few years old used car. So that's what I did. Was this a mustaschian purchase? Hell no. But I've never regretted it, and I'm mustachian about everything else. Driving a car is the most dangerous thing I do in my life and after seeing what I've seen, I would make the same choice (to get something newer and safer) every time. I would rather drive one newer car in my household than 2 older cars.

I'm sorry to hear about your brother.

I absolutely agree, and had my "safety revelation" shortly before our first child was born, and set out from that point to bring our vehicles up to modern safety standards as quickly as finances (and my wife) would allow. We now have a pair of minivans with good crash scores, side airbags, and ESC. These are vehicles I'm once again comfortable driving into the ground. And I know that whenever my wife sets out by herself or with my kids, she isn't in the cheapest vehicle we could find, but in the safest at our budget at the time.

And yes, my goal each time we buy a new vehicle is to make it the safest vehicle we own.

[flyingaway]

When annual repairing cost > 4%*(new car price) + additional insurance cost + additional registration cost.

Flyingaway, can you elaborate on the rationale behind your formula?

If I do not buy a new car, I expect that my money will bring 4% return per year (opportunity cost). A new car will cost more in term of annual insurance and annual registration (than the old car). When the annual repairing cost is greater than this sum, I will buy a new car.

This is, of course, to assume that I do have the money to buy a new car.

[dplasters]

I hear safety is an expensive illusion.

[jms493]

Subaru Impreza Hatchback...good little car.  Retains its value well.

[Syonyk]

I hear safety is an expensive illusion.

Sure sounds like it.  But, you know, you can't put a price on the safety of your family, so clearly the $100k Model S is the best vehicle to purchase.  It got more than 5 stars, and broke the crush testing machine!  Plus, all that crumple zone from the frunk... can you believe anyone would still buy a car with an engine up there to crush into your legs???

</justifications>

I drive an unsafe-as-shit pickup about a thousand miles a year, commute via electric bike, and have been known to ride motorcycles and fly small airplanes.  Can't say it really worries me.  I do what I can to keep things as safe as possible, but "absolute safety" isn't achievable, and there's more to life than being safe.  IMO.

[alsoknownasDean]

Safety is well worth taking into consideration, but IMO most cars of the last decade or so do pretty well on the safety tests, at least compared to cars prior.

Even my old hatchback gets four NCAP stars.

I wonder how a car from 2016 compares to the equivalent 2006. It seems that big safety advances were made from about 2000.

Assuming it's kept in good condition and well maintained, a car from 2006 is as safe now as it was back in 2006.

Of course, the best way to improve safety is to reduce the number of kilometres driven. :)

[Abe]

Car safety has significantly improved compared to the early 80s, for example, but I don't think there have been any major innovations that will reduce the injury rate much. Most of the motor vehicle trauma we see is due to driving while intoxicated, at high speed, and not wearing a seat belt. Otherwise the risk of major life-altering trauma is quite low now, even with collisions at near-highway speed (assuming someone slowed down before impact, which is usually true).

[alsoknownasDean]

Car safety has significantly improved compared to the early 80s, for example, but I don't think there have been any major innovations that will reduce the injury rate much. Most of the motor vehicle trauma we see is due to driving while intoxicated, at high speed, and not wearing a seat belt. Otherwise the risk of major life-altering trauma is quite low now, even with collisions at near-highway speed (assuming someone slowed down before impact, which is usually true).

What's enforcement like where you are? Here there's regular ads on TV warning people against drink driving (and speeding, drug driving, etc), and booze buses pulling over traffic and breath testing drivers.

A lot of the future safety improvements are likely to be about removing the human factor, be it automatic emergency braking or autonomous cars.

[McStache]

I'm in a similar position.  I have an 11 year old car with just about 200k miles on it that I was planning on driving until it was dead.  However, I have the opportunity to get a 2013 with 80k miles on it for 1.5k below the KBB price (private party value) and I could maybe sell my current car for 2-3k at this point.  The net cost after selling would be about 6k, but with a 2013 I expect it would last another almost 10 years before needing a new car.  Should I make the switch? Or stick with the plan of driving the old car into the ground?

[alsoknownasDean]

I'm in a similar position.  I have an 11 year old car with just about 200k miles on it that I was planning on driving until it was dead.  However, I have the opportunity to get a 2013 with 80k miles on it for 1.5k below the KBB price (private party value) and I could maybe sell my current car for 2-3k at this point.  The net cost after selling would be about 6k, but with a 2013 I expect it would last another almost 10 years before needing a new car.  Should I make the switch? Or stick with the plan of driving the old car into the ground?

I'm probably going to go against the crowd and say that doing the switch isn't a bad idea. Although I'd be a bit more pessimistic on the valuation of your current car.

I tend to go by the rule that a car is generally fine up to 15 years/200K miles, but may have additional maintenance requirements beyond that.

Would you do it if you were only able to get $1500 for your current car?

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

[CanuckExpat]

I don't think there's a point to running a car into the ground just for the sake of doing so, nor do I think it's the optimal strategy to reduce costs.
Buying a new car is not the answer (though current tax incentives might make me consider a new electric car if I was driving a lot), but I think the sweet spot lies in buying a slightly used car, using it for a moderate amount of time, and then selling it before you have too many maintenence costs and headaches but while it still has some resale value.

Ideally you'd know the depreciation and maintenance curves over time for the specific car that you are dealing with; but since you can't know that before the fact, averages can give you a general idea. There is nice data from consumer reports:



You can kind of speculate from their data that around year 6 or 7, the decrease in carrying costs per year is offset by the increase in operating costs. That is all based on averages across all vehicles and driving styles. If you have a car that costs less to own to start off with, and you drive less, then it would shift the sweet spot to the right. If you got stuck with a car that had a lot of mechanical problems, the sweet spot would be further to the left (but you'd only know that after the fact).

It's kind of interesting that they single out the Honda Fit in that report as a particularly cheap car to own overall: "It combines a relatively low purchase price with low depreciation, great fuel economy, excellent reliability, and fairly low maintenance and repair costs."

Edmunds has their own graph, which seems based on a lot less robust data, but they also put their sweet spot at about 5-7 years, considering depreciation only:


The downside to all this is transaction costs, and the difficulty (pain in the ass) of finding a good quality reliable used car.. but if you are having trouble with your current car and not happy with it, you might have more motivation to consider car shopping.

For reference, we have a 2009 Honda Fit, which we bought used at about the two year old mark. If we were driving a lot, or starting to encounter maintenance issues, I'd probably consider selling it about now and buying something like a 2013 - 2015 Fit. We don't drive much, and are happy enough with our car that I don't feel like dealing with the hassle of transactions costs.

So the real answer is to not drive much, or at all, but there might be a second best answer that involves selling the car before the point that it is a wreck.

[McStache]

I'm in a similar position.  I have an 11 year old car with just about 200k miles on it that I was planning on driving until it was dead.  However, I have the opportunity to get a 2013 with 80k miles on it for 1.5k below the KBB price (private party value) and I could maybe sell my current car for 2-3k at this point.  The net cost after selling would be about 6k, but with a 2013 I expect it would last another almost 10 years before needing a new car.  Should I make the switch? Or stick with the plan of driving the old car into the ground?

I'm probably going to go against the crowd and say that doing the switch isn't a bad idea. Although I'd be a bit more pessimistic on the valuation of your current car.

I tend to go by the rule that a car is generally fine up to 15 years/200K miles, but may have additional maintenance requirements beyond that.

Would you do it if you were only able to get $1500 for your current car?

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

I'm honestly not sure, but I'm also not sure about doing it for 2-3k.  I don't need a car for my regular commute, just my side hustle and for regional (>50 mi) travel.  I could limit the distance I'm willing to travel for my side hustle to walking/biking range, but that would also mean less work.  Outside of my side hustle I tend to drive regionally about twice a month (more in the summer, less in the winter), but could also be better about getting a ride with others occasionally.  So, to upgrade my car for 6-7k seems like a real luxury when I could probably make do without after (or before) running my current car into the ground.  However, having a car also provides freedom.

The Numbers (monthly)
                           Current Car          Future Car           No Car
Insurance                    $60                       $60                    $0          Assumption: Just liability, so new car shouldn't affect the rate significantly
Gas                             $50                       $45                    $0          Assumption: New car has better mpg
Keeping it/me legal      $6.25                    $6.25                  $0.83
Taxes                          $10                       $30                    $0          Assumption: Triple the value = triple the taxes
Maintenance                $150?                    $50?                   $0         These are more guesses than anything
ZipCar                         $0                         $0                      $200      Assumption: Two 2 day trips in the summer, one 2 day trip the rest of the year
Side Hustle                 ($200)                  ($200)                ($100)     Assumption: Less work available within walking/biking distance
Cost                            $76.25                 ($8.75)               $100.83
Opportunity Cost          $6.50                    $40                    $0          Assumption: 3 years, selling car now, 5% growth, car values: $1.5k old, $9k new
Total                           $82.75                  $31.25               $100.83

The crossover point for how long the current car would have to live before the new car is cheaper would be 135 years (is that math right?)... which doesn't seem reasonable, but that also very much hinges on the accuracy of my guesses for maintenance, which can be hard to predict with older cars. 

On the face of it going carless would be more expensive, which also doesn't seem quite right.  Has anyone found this to be the case?

What would you do given these numbers and my usage patterns?

[alsoknownasDean]

How many miles would you do per year?

[McStache]

About 5,000 miles

[cambridgecyclist]

Are those insurance costs accurate? No change in insurance cost with a new car?
Also, excise tax will go up with a new car.

[GreenSheep]

This topic reminds me of something I've wondered about... what do you do when your car has died and is at the mechanic's, and you're told it will be $Ridiculous to get it to the point where it's drivable again. You decide it's time for a new-to-you car, but you can't drive the old one home in its current condition. If you're at a dealership, maybe you can sell it to them (maybe not if it's old? and probably not at a good price, regardless?), but if you're at some random mechanic, then your car is stuck there. Do you then pay to have it towed home so you can try to sell it on Craigslist or maybe just salvage a little money by donating it somewhere for a tax write-off? Or what if you're on a road trip when this happens, and getting it home isn't possible, nor is trying to sell it while you're halfway to your destination?

Perhaps I'm overthinking this, but I'm about to head out on a long road trip in my 9 year old car (granted, not very old yet, and just passed a free pre-trip checkup by the dealership), and these things are on my mind.

[FIRE47]

This topic reminds me of something I've wondered about... what do you do when your car has died and is at the mechanic's, and you're told it will be $Ridiculous to get it to the point where it's drivable again. You decide it's time for a new-to-you car, but you can't drive the old one home in its current condition. If you're at a dealership, maybe you can sell it to them (maybe not if it's old? and probably not at a good price, regardless?), but if you're at some random mechanic, then your car is stuck there. Do you then pay to have it towed home so you can try to sell it on Craigslist or maybe just salvage a little money by donating it somewhere for a tax write-off? Or what if you're on a road trip when this happens, and getting it home isn't possible, nor is trying to sell it while you're halfway to your destination?

Perhaps I'm overthinking this, but I'm about to head out on a long road trip in my 9 year old car (granted, not very old yet, and just passed a free pre-trip checkup by the dealership), and these things are on my mind.

Pay to tow it to a nearby wrecking yard if it's at that point not sure now with the price of metal but around here was 500 bucks flat for a vehicle

[JLee]

This topic reminds me of something I've wondered about... what do you do when your car has died and is at the mechanic's, and you're told it will be $Ridiculous to get it to the point where it's drivable again. You decide it's time for a new-to-you car, but you can't drive the old one home in its current condition. If you're at a dealership, maybe you can sell it to them (maybe not if it's old? and probably not at a good price, regardless?), but if you're at some random mechanic, then your car is stuck there. Do you then pay to have it towed home so you can try to sell it on Craigslist or maybe just salvage a little money by donating it somewhere for a tax write-off? Or what if you're on a road trip when this happens, and getting it home isn't possible, nor is trying to sell it while you're halfway to your destination?

Perhaps I'm overthinking this, but I'm about to head out on a long road trip in my 9 year old car (granted, not very old yet, and just passed a free pre-trip checkup by the dealership), and these things are on my mind.

There are usually junkyard people who will come tow a scrap car for free (or sometimes pay you).

[McStache]

Are those insurance costs accurate? No change in insurance cost with a new car?
Also, excise tax will go up with a new car.

I haven't gotten a quote, but my thought process was as I am just covering liability if I hit someone else, and not comprehensive or collision for harm to my vehicle, then it should be about the same.

I did account for excise taxes increasing ($10 -> $30 per month).

I also think I could do carless for cheaper by renting an actual car (enterprise or similar) for the weekend rather than doing zip car.

Right now I'm leaning towards driving my car into the ground (or at least through the summer) then probably going carless after that.

[big_slacker]

Dealing with this right now. My wife's car has some issues that are going to cost around $2k to fix (Yay VW, never again!) It's probably worth $8-$9k. I paid this car off with the hope that she would be driving it to at least 150k miles, it doesn't even have half that.

At first I thought: Put the $2k into it and it'll then go the 150k miles I hoped for. But 'plan for the worst' me thinks: This thing is almost certainly gonna have another $2k problem(s) before then and it'll be worth even less. And I don't feel like swapping out an electronically controlled steering rack is something I would like to attempt in my garage.

Since I also drive a very unmustachian jeep wrangler I was thinking of selling both and doing a combo of something like a subaru impreza for family hauling and getting me to the mountains with gear, and something very gas-savey like a prius or similar for my non-bike commutes and the wife freeway driving to school. Both used of course. Whatchoo folks think about that, am I thinking logically?

[CanuckExpat]

Right now I'm leaning towards driving my car into the ground (or at least through the summer) then probably going carless after that.

Going carless would certainly help with your expenses. Report back on how you enjoy it!

Since I also drive a very unmustachian jeep wrangler I was thinking of selling both and doing a combo of something like a subaru impreza for family hauling and getting me to the mountains with gear, and something very gas-savey like a prius or similar for my non-bike commutes and the wife freeway driving to school. Both used of course. Whatchoo folks think about that, am I thinking logically?

If you want to optimize even further, there is always this to consider: How To Be a One Car Family

[mistershankly]

This topic reminds me of something I've wondered about... what do you do when your car has died and is at the mechanic's, and you're told it will be $Ridiculous to get it to the point where it's drivable again. You decide it's time for a new-to-you car, but you can't drive the old one home in its current condition. If you're at a dealership, maybe you can sell it to them (maybe not if it's old? and probably not at a good price, regardless?), but if you're at some random mechanic, then your car is stuck there. Do you then pay to have it towed home so you can try to sell it on Craigslist or maybe just salvage a little money by donating it somewhere for a tax write-off? Or what if you're on a road trip when this happens, and getting it home isn't possible, nor is trying to sell it while you're halfway to your destination?

Perhaps I'm overthinking this, but I'm about to head out on a long road trip in my 9 year old car (granted, not very old yet, and just passed a free pre-trip checkup by the dealership), and these things are on my mind.

You can tow your car to a Carmax if you have one nearby.  They will quote you a purchase price regardless of the condition of the car.

[AZDude]

I've owned three cars. First was totaled, so obviously I had to buy a new one or go without. Second stranded me on the side of the road three times in one summer(which is horrible in Arizona, since you know, its like 110F outside and people drive like they are in NASCAR). So I am on car number three.

I think this is a thing where you just know it when it happens.

[big_slacker]

We have at various points been a one car family, car and motorcycle family and .5 car (it broke down a lot.) Its certainly something I've kicked around. I ride my bike to work 2-3 times a week currently, have an unlimited bus pass and shuttle service through work.

It would mean a LOT of riding in the rain, some occasional 45 minute each way commutes due to sub optimal shuttle/bus service and the kids/me being mostly housebound 2-4 days a week when the wife is at school. My hobbies (hiking, mountain biking, snowboarding) would have to be planned much more carefully. We'd need an outlook calendar for car use. :)

Doable for sure, but we'd be giving up a lot of lifestyle flexibility, especially with the kid activities. Per that article I'd be the 90% person. It might be worth just trying. Sell both vehicles, get one and let the money sit. Hmmmmm....

Right now I'm leaning towards driving my car into the ground (or at least through the summer) then probably going carless after that.

Going carless would certainly help with your expenses. Report back on how you enjoy it!

Since I also drive a very unmustachian jeep wrangler I was thinking of selling both and doing a combo of something like a subaru impreza for family hauling and getting me to the mountains with gear, and something very gas-savey like a prius or similar for my non-bike commutes and the wife freeway driving to school. Both used of course. Whatchoo folks think about that, am I thinking logically?

If you want to optimize even further, there is always this to consider: How To Be a One Car Family

[Rosy]

I drive a 1998 Ford Escort Cpe, no real problems yet, just maintenance. I will continue driving it until a big repair bill hits one day - like $1500. It sounds fine, runs well and I don't drive it much anyway - I'd be super happy if my little ole red lasts one more year or however long it decides to run for me.
We also own a 2015 Subaru Forrester which we love. Can't do one car family until Mr. R. retires, so yes I would replace my car without question.   

[soupcxan]

I hear safety is an expensive illusion.

Nice thought but the statistics do not support it. Smaller, older cars are just not as safe as midsize or larger cars with modern safety features.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/12/141218210019.htm

[Syonyk]

There are usually junkyard people who will come tow a scrap car for free (or sometimes pay you).

Generally, junkyards pay by the pound for cars based on some aggregate of current scrap value prices.

If the car has to be towed, that comes out of the scrap value payment.

I hear safety is an expensive illusion.

Nice thought but the statistics do not support it. Smaller, older cars are just not as safe as midsize or larger cars with modern safety features.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/12/141218210019.htm

That report conveniently manages to miss what teen drivers were driving, proportionally.  If the deaths are proportional to the vehicles (and, *gasp* - teenagers driving older, cheaper cars?  What are they thinking, not getting a $20k loan in high school???), then there's no real news to be had.

But "I must have a new car because the old one was 4.5 stars and the new one is 4.7 stars!" is the type of thing auto dealers love, because every year, cars have some new "Must Have" safety feature, and they make money when you trade up.

I mean, the safest car on the road right now is apparently a Model S.  Are you planning to buy a $70k-$130k car, just to be safer?

[RedmondStash]

My 19-year-old Toyota Corolla has been really dependable. It's got just over 100,000 miles on it; I bought it in 1997 for $15k as a 1-year-old used, reconditioned rental from a dealership. I would do that again. Not sure if the Corolla comes in a hatchback, but there might be a good Scion equivalent.

I'll have to replace it someday; its repair expenses are getting higher. I'm torn because getting a several-year-old car does seem more economical, but if I keep my next car for 20 years too, the immediate depreciation seems to matter less than knowing it's been well cared for throughout its entire life. The car I bought nearly new two decades ago has essentially cost me less than $1k a year, and it's still chugging along.

I do like the idea of newer safety features and technology. And a remote control. Unnecessary, of course, but both useful and cool.

[Mongoose]

Or what if you're on a road trip when this happens, and getting it home isn't possible, nor is trying to sell it while you're halfway to your destination?

Done, or helped family deal with away from home major breakdowns, more than  four times.

Circumstance 1: car broke down in an area two days from home and needed extensive repairs. Solution:got cheapest one-way UHaul with car trailer and hauled that sucker home. Got it repaired and drove it several more years.

Circumstance 2: u-joint on vehicle snapped while on a road trip/fuel pump quit (separate instances). Solution: tow to nearest good garage (tow truck drivers are also awesome in my experience and often well-connected with garages). Went on our way after repairs.

Circumstance 3: relative had car catch fire and burn up completely during a cross country move. Solution: drove one day out and one day back to retrieve them and the remains of their belongings. Got one way rental car to get them the rest of the way to their new location.

Circumstance 4: car quit in remote area in a snowstorm (idiot mechanic who we had never used before put in a plug upside down...only mystery was why car got 400 miles before shutting off). Solution: some locals helped us out by having truck towed to their house and taking us to a rental car place. We paid them despite some protests and went on our way. One week later we returned to turn in rental and tow car home (this one was only 3 hours from our house). Bonus: made new friends plus got refund from bad mechanic. Got car fixed and are still driving it.

Driving older cars with high miles means we try to think up contingency plans. So far, we haven't had to implement the more extreme solutions (replacing vehicle while a long way from home) but I feel comfortable that we could navigate that as well.

Disclaimer: we tend to keep our cars a very long time and drive them a lot of miles before we will even consider replacing them. We finally got rid if a Ford Tempo with 360,000 miles on it because the frame was too rusty to be safe. Current cars have 280,000 miles (Mazda) and 320,000 (Subaru) and are going to last a few more years I hope. (Mileages reported are approximate.)

[SeaEhm]

Buy a new car when the car you are currently driving causes anxiety about getting you to where you need to go.

Peace of mind is a price that I will pay without any regrets.

[Syonyk]

Driving older cars with high miles means we try to think up contingency plans. So far, we haven't had to implement the more extreme solutions (replacing vehicle while a long way from home) but I feel comfortable that we could navigate that as well.

A toolbox, jack, jackstands, and a few spare parts in the back covers a lot of failures as well.

[tobitonic]

I mean, the safest car on the road right now is apparently a Model S.  Are you planning to buy a $70k-$130k car, just to be safer?

As a Mustachian, we shouldn't take marketing at face value. The S is a safe car in man respects, yes, but pretty much *any* car that weighs more than it with a good frontal crash score will be safer in a frontal collision, to give just one counterexample.

[Syonyk]

As a Mustachian, we shouldn't take marketing at face value. The S is a safe car in man respects, yes, but pretty much *any* car that weighs more than it with a good frontal crash score will be safer in a frontal collision, to give just one counterexample.

Unlikely.  The Model S has no engine up front - literally the whole "frunk" area is crumple zone, vs a normal car with some crumple zone, but a lot of engine block up there as well.

And I'm not sure what you're going to find that outweighs it by much in the shape of a "car" - it's a 4800 lb vehicle.

[tobitonic]

As a Mustachian, we shouldn't take marketing at face value. The S is a safe car in man respects, yes, but pretty much *any* car that weighs more than it with a good frontal crash score will be safer in a frontal collision, to give just one counterexample.

Unlikely.  The Model S has no engine up front - literally the whole "frunk" area is crumple zone, vs a normal car with some crumple zone, but a lot of engine block up there as well.

And I'm not sure what you're going to find that outweighs it by much in the shape of a "car" - it's a 4800 lb vehicle.

Yeah, that's still marketing; what matters is the crash forces the vehicle transfers to its occupants when it makes contact with a barrier. It doesn't matter if the front of the car is 12 inches deep or a mile long; collision physics dictate that it's going to put the same amount of force in a given collision into another object (e.g., a wall) as that of any other vehicle of the same mass and velocity. This is why, for example, a minivan with a short nose will perform the same way at a given speed and weight and crash score as an SUV with a longer nose.

And the curb weight of the S ranges from around 4300 lbs in the 60 to around 4900 in the P85D. The BMW 7 Series, MB S Class, Hyundai Genesis, and Kia K900 all weigh about the same to more, and all can be had for reasonably cheap when bought used. If you expand the list to cars that weigh within ~250 lbs on the low end (which is the limit for comparisons, per the NHTSA), it gets much larger.

My point here is that there are plenty of ways to get safer vehicles besides spending lots of money. And soupxcan was also right about the increased safety of newer vehicles compared to older ones. Things like side curtain & torso airbags and ESC are considered as revolutionary as the seat belt, but with very few exceptions, you're not going to get them with vehicles made before the mid-2000s.

[Syonyk]

Yeah, that's still marketing; what matters is the crash forces the vehicle transfers to its occupants when it makes contact with a barrier. It doesn't matter if the front of the car is 12 inches deep or a mile long; collision physics dictate that it's going to put the same amount of force in a given collision into another object (e.g., a wall) as that of any other vehicle of the same mass and velocity.

Sure, but what matters to human survivability is the G forces on the occupants, and "slowing from 60-0 over 6 feet vs 2 feet" makes a huge, huge difference there.

My point is mostly that if you've got your life set up to minimize driving, the safety ratings of your vehicle should have a minimal impact on your expected lifespan.

I also commute on bicycle, ride motorcycles, fly small airplanes, and own a pickup truck with a crash rating of "haha, you're screwed."  So I've come to terms with this.  I just try to avoid the unsafe parts of those activities, and don't drive my truck that many miles a year.

[tobitonic]

Yeah, that's still marketing; what matters is the crash forces the vehicle transfers to its occupants when it makes contact with a barrier. It doesn't matter if the front of the car is 12 inches deep or a mile long; collision physics dictate that it's going to put the same amount of force in a given collision into another object (e.g., a wall) as that of any other vehicle of the same mass and velocity.

Sure, but what matters to human survivability is the G forces on the occupants, and "slowing from 60-0 over 6 feet vs 2 feet" makes a huge, huge difference there.

I agree, but it only matters if the time to slow down is different. It isn't, or else the S would score far better than any other vehicle in its weight range, in terms of low HIC-15 scores, low neck forces, etc. It doesn't, because it behaves like pretty much every other vehicle out there in its weight range. Believe me, I think the S is a cool car, and we'll seriously consider buying one used if they get fully autonomous tech before everyone else does. I just see a lot of people repeating Tesla's speak about how much safer it is than everything else out there, and that's just not true.

My point is mostly that if you've got your life set up to minimize driving, the safety ratings of your vehicle should have a minimal impact on your expected lifespan.

I also commute on bicycle, ride motorcycles, fly small airplanes, and own a pickup truck with a crash rating of "haha, you're screwed."  So I've come to terms with this.  I just try to avoid the unsafe parts of those activities, and don't drive my truck that many miles a year.

I agree that the best approach is to minimize driving, and not do it at all if possible. But a lot of folks here take that justification to the point of arguing that there aren't any real safety differences in newer vehicles compared to old ones, and that just isn't true. The likelihood of needing to use the improvements may be statistically small (after all, only around 10 out of 100,000 people die every year in the US in auto incidents), but by that reasoning, there's no point in wearing seat belts either, as we're probably not going to crash on any given trip. Everyone here (I hope) realizes that's a fallacious argument. Side airbags and ESC are considered to improve driver safety as much as the seat belt. We don't need to buy new cars to get them, but I wouldn't go out of my way to avoid them either.

[rothwem]

I'd keep the Fit.  I am curious about these axle failures though, I used to work in an axle plant that made CV axles for a variety of cars that included the Honda Fit.  Did you have a complete loss of drive or were you able to make it to the shop?  Getting a "clicker" is a pretty common failure mode caused by poor heat treating or dimensional tolerances (or torn CV boots), but having the shaft break (causes the complete loss of drive) is REALLY uncommon and basically never happens unless the vehicle is abused.  With that said, there's usually a parts warranty on repairs. 

Has anything else gone wrong on the Fit?