What tools/sites/techniques to manage Budget, Expense Tracking & Net Worth?

[mb196]

While browsing for books at a Barnes & Noble recently -- one of my no-cost hobbies -- I walked by the Personal Finance section to see what was new.  I noticed a preponderance of books by a lady with very bright teeth and a perfect tan.   I also see how many websites and apps are marketed.   I see all these tools and it's no wonder how some people can be intimidated and wonder "how many tools do I need to manage/automate/monitor my personal finance?"

With that in mind, I'll share my ideas and ask for suggestions:

I use an Excel spreadsheet that I created almost 20 years ago.  With this I track incoming paychecks and upcoming expenses.  This simple sheet also allows me to forecast when I have large payments due in the future, such as taxes or large purchases I may need to make.

I use another sheet to track my Net Worth.  I use Mint.com to display my balance but actually have two Mint.com accounts under two separate emails, one for daily operating expenses and another for my investments and savings.  This last one I only access once or twice a month

I keep a small piece of paper on my wallet where I track my expenses.  This sheet as my categories on the margin and as the month goes by, I had expenses on a daily basis.  At the end of the month, I transcribe all that information into another spreadsheet to tally all I that I spent.  I then compare it with the limits and thresholds I previously defined in my budget.  For example,  $500 for groceries and supermarkets.  Did I go over or did I abide?   There is an entertainment category, a GIFTS category and another one for clothing, etc.  It's always great to see all those expenses at the end of the year and know that last year, for example, I spent 963 dollars in Gas.  By the way, in an effort to reduce my clothing purchases, I started a project to catalog all my work and casual clothing into another spreadsheet.  This will also help me donate a significant amount of clothing.  I digress.

Tracking one's expenses & income and tracking one's net worth should not require a labyrinth of tools.

I'd like to hear about how others are doing theirs and ways to improve my existing "system".

[andy85]

i have 5 main tabs in my excel file: 1) earning, 2) spending, 3) saving, 4) net worth, 5) checking account (basically a checkbook register - also helps me forecast upcoming expenses so i can plan accordingly).

I have a bunch of other tabs i play around in, but those are my main 5 reporting tabs. I have another spreadsheet with a bunch of FIRE projections and simulations, but that is mostly for play.

[prognastat]

I just use mint for both it's tracking and budgeting functions.

[Spork]

Maybe we should add a topic on this to the FAQ...


My answer is always: gnucash.  It's free.  It's solid.  It's been around for a few decades.  It is generally "more correct" when it comes to accounting principles than many of the other systems.  I've found that adhering to reasonable accounting principles makes you correctly answer other things automatically.  If you have the question "should X be considered savings or an expense..."  you're not properly identifying assets/liabilities/expenses/income.

I've built a massive, ugly system on top of gnucash that probably wouldn't apply well to anyone but me, but it autogenerates a bunch of graphs and reports that show changes over time.  I'm not sure that's necessary for the non-nerdy, non-obsessive types.

[toodleoo]

Popular options: Mint, Personal Capital.

[farmecologist]

Popular options: Mint, Personal Capital.

I absolutely love Personal Capital...and I have tried nearly all of them.  Why?  Because their customer service actually responds to me in a timely manner when accounts will not sync, etc... I gave up on all the others.

The only catch is that they WILL send you emails to 'set up a consultation' with a 'financial representative'.  They even called me once.  However, I just ignore them.   On the flip side, the 'financial representative' side of the business is probably what makes them $$$ to be able to afford decent customer service.


 

[toodleoo]

Popular options: Mint, Personal Capital.

I absolutely love Personal Capital...and I have tried nearly all of them.  Why?  Because their customer service actually responds to me in a timely manner when accounts will not sync, etc... I gave up on all the others.

The only catch is that they WILL send you emails to 'set up a consultation' with a 'financial representative'.  They even called me once.  However, I just ignore them.   On the flip side, the 'financial representative' side of the business is probably what makes them $$$ to be able to afford decent customer service.

Yup - any calls from San Francisco (where my "rep" is) get ignored :)

[lamil]

Popular options: Mint, Personal Capital.

I absolutely love Personal Capital...and I have tried nearly all of them.  Why?  Because their customer service actually responds to me in a timely manner when accounts will not sync, etc... I gave up on all the others.

I love using the site as well, however I've had the complete opposite experience.  I've waited months for replies and I've had to straight remove accounts that stopped working and switch them to manual accounts instead (losing the transaction history in the process).  I also get no response when trying to get accounts added either that don't currently exist for sync (PNC HSA account, not an unknown brand).

I still use them for a lot of the features, but yea, I'm 2/7 on support tickets and months between responses.

[sailinlight]

I use Quicken 2013 version.  I used to upgrade every year until then, with my data going back to 2004.  I can't imagine it would improve anymore.  I enter all my expenses manually; the only online services I use are stock prices.  Once that stops working in a few years, I guess I'll enter the prices manually.

I suggest using something open source so you are not at the mercy of a company forcing you to upgrade every year.  I have tried to transfer my data to the free programs like gnucash, but they never import correctly.

[farmecologist]

Popular options: Mint, Personal Capital.

I absolutely love Personal Capital...and I have tried nearly all of them.  Why?  Because their customer service actually responds to me in a timely manner when accounts will not sync, etc... I gave up on all the others.

I love using the site as well, however I've had the complete opposite experience.  I've waited months for replies and I've had to straight remove accounts that stopped working and switch them to manual accounts instead (losing the transaction history in the process).  I also get no response when trying to get accounts added either that don't currently exist for sync (PNC HSA account, not an unknown brand).

I still use them for a lot of the features, but yea, I'm 2/7 on support tickets and months between responses.

Very interesting...Maybe things have changed.  If you don't mind me asking....do you happen to have a high 'net worth'?  Ours is fairly high...as in it has a value one of their 'financial advisers' would probably like to get their hands on.   I really hope they don't service people better the higher your 'net worth' is! 

Edit: One thing to note is that I DID complain via email to the 'financial representative'.  Maybe that helps?

[lamil]

Popular options: Mint, Personal Capital.

I absolutely love Personal Capital...and I have tried nearly all of them.  Why?  Because their customer service actually responds to me in a timely manner when accounts will not sync, etc... I gave up on all the others.

I love using the site as well, however I've had the complete opposite experience.  I've waited months for replies and I've had to straight remove accounts that stopped working and switch them to manual accounts instead (losing the transaction history in the process).  I also get no response when trying to get accounts added either that don't currently exist for sync (PNC HSA account, not an unknown brand).

I still use them for a lot of the features, but yea, I'm 2/7 on support tickets and months between responses.

Very interesting...Maybe things have changed.  If you don't mind me asking....do you happen to have a high 'net worth'?  Ours is fairly high...as in it has a value one of their 'financial advisers' would probably like to get their hands on.   I really hope they don't service people better the higher your 'net worth' is! 

Edit: One thing to note is that I DID complain via email to the 'financial representative'.  Maybe that helps?

I think the threshold is 100k which I haven't hit yet, but friends who I have pointed towards the site above that number also complained to me about getting called over and over again with them trying to sell stuff.  I'll find out soon enough.

But either way, based on the above, I bet you that's exactly what's happening. I talked to the same person over the course of a year trying to get an issue resolved (and while I understand the service is free and I shouldn't complain, it still sucked having to deal with it).


Account went down in January after working fine before that. This was my main checking account at the time. Sorry for the wall of text.


---
Carlos, Feb 27, 9:31 AM:
Hello Kevin,

Thank you for the message and apologies for the delay in replying.

I've investigated your error with your PSE CU accounts and can confirm that you saw the problem because of an error on our side. We need to investigate this further and have escalated it to our technical team. Please don't delete your setup for PSE CU, as our team will need it to be in the error state so they can review the issue. I will send you an update once the issue is resolved.

Please let me know if there is anything else I can assist you with.

Sincerely,

Carlos
Personal Capital Support
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Kevin, Mar 16, 1:10 PM:
Can I request an update on this issue? One of my main bank accounts which is used to track net worth as well as income has been unable to connect since January.

Thanks,

Kevin
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Carlos, Apr 12, 2:27 PM:
Hello Kevin,

Thank you for your patience while we were working to resolve the issue with your PSE CU account.

I wanted to inform you that our technical team performed an update that may resolve your issue. Please log in to Personal Capital and refresh your account so you may answer any security questions.

Let me know if the issue persists or you have other questions related to your account.
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Kevin, Apr 12, 2:28 PM:
The accounts have connected, however all of the transactions are reversed, (Income showing as spending, and spending showing as income).

(added screenshots etc for more helpful info for their IT team. )
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Carlos, Apr 14, 12:30 PM:
Hello Kevin,

Thank you for your reply and the additional information. I've escalated your ticket back to our technical team and I will update you as soon as they reply back with a response.

Thank you for your patience.

Carlos
Personal Capital Support
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Kevin, May 27, 8:48 AM PDT:
Any update on the reversed transactions? (spending showing as income, and income showing as spending)

Thanks,
---

Carlos, Jun 2, 3:31 PM PDT:
Hello Kevin,

Thank you for your message. Our technical team is still working on your issue regarding the transactions from your PSE CU account. Once they provide me an update regarding this issue, I will notify you right away.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Sincerely,

Carlos
Personal Capital Support
-Kevin
---

## Please do not write below this line ##
Your request has been updated by "Carlos", a Personal Capital Support representative.


Carlos, Jun 16, 9:47 AM PDT:
Hello Kevin,

Appreciate your patience.

Our technical team performed another update for your PSE CU account. Again, please log in to Personal Capital and refresh your account so you may answer any security questions.
---

still didnt work actually

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Carlos, Jul 18, 3:46 PM PDT:
Hello Kevin,

I'll have my team take a look at your setup again. I've escalated your ticket back to them and I will update you as soon as they reply.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Carlos
Personal Capital Support
--

after months, i just removed the account and manually updated the number, losing all my account history but finally having a total to at least go towards networth, but lost out on spending / income (even though it was messed up and throwing everything off anyway)

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Carlos, Nov 2, 5:25 PM PDT:
Hello Kevin,

Thank you for your patience and I do apologize for the delay in responding as I do see that your ticket is still escalated. However, after reviewing your setup, I was not able to locate your setup for your PSE CU accounts. If you have removed it, could you please add the account back to your application so I may review any setup issues or error messages.

Thank you for your help and patience.

Carlos
Personal Capital Support

---


Adding to the end of this, at the end of November my credit union rolled out a new webapp which allowed me to reconnect using their new system.

[Spork]

I suggest using something open source so you are not at the mercy of a company forcing you to upgrade every year.  I have tried to transfer my data to the free programs like gnucash, but they never import correctly.

I think I transferred mine right around 1999.  I forget exactly.  I will say: it was not a simple task.  It took several tries and LOTS of massaging to get it where I wanted it.  I believe I also did a lot of find/replace on the backend file.  (It's just text/xml.)

That said: I also had similar experiences when I went from Quicken to Microsoft Money a few years earlier.  It is difficult to not just import the data, but import it in a meaningful way.

[Laserjet3051]

Excel.


Process: Export bank data into Excel. Done.

That's it, gives me all the tracking and detail for my personal and business cash flows I could ever need. Different tabs for granular analysis (food expenses, investment returns, biz taxes, etc).

Completely free, info is stored locally on a protected disconnected external drive, NOT on the cloud, and NOT vulnerable to remote i.p interference/hacking.

[deadlymonkey]

Popular options: Mint, Personal Capital.

I absolutely love Personal Capital...and I have tried nearly all of them.  Why?  Because their customer service actually responds to me in a timely manner when accounts will not sync, etc... I gave up on all the others.

I love using the site as well, however I've had the complete opposite experience.  I've waited months for replies and I've had to straight remove accounts that stopped working and switch them to manual accounts instead (losing the transaction history in the process).  I also get no response when trying to get accounts added either that don't currently exist for sync (PNC HSA account, not an unknown brand).

I still use them for a lot of the features, but yea, I'm 2/7 on support tickets and months between responses.

Very interesting...Maybe things have changed.  If you don't mind me asking....do you happen to have a high 'net worth'?  Ours is fairly high...as in it has a value one of their 'financial advisers' would probably like to get their hands on.   I really hope they don't service people better the higher your 'net worth' is! 

Edit: One thing to note is that I DID complain via email to the 'financial representative'.  Maybe that helps?

I think the threshold is 100k which I haven't hit yet, but friends who I have pointed towards the site above that number also complained to me about getting called over and over again with them trying to sell stuff.  I'll find out soon enough.

That sounds about right, I have a relatively for my age (not for this site) net worth mostly in retirement accounts.  I can set my calendar by when my PC rep calls.  I usually am polite and say not interested in the few times he gets ahold of me.  Not allowed a cell phone in my place of employment so he just leaves a message.  Not a bother consider the quality of the free PC services.

[RobFIRE]

For net worth I have a relatively simple spreadsheet. Over the last year I have set up a new account with an online platform for savings and pensions, then closed two separate accounts and moved them in there. With one bank account and linked credit card (OK, one backup credit card I rarely use), a company pension and a single other investment, I just take the total figures from four sites and put in the spreadsheet. Takes 10 minutes every couple of months.

In terms of budget and expenses, I check my current account ("checking" for those in US) and credit card every couple of weeks to make sure nothing dodgy on there, and once a month transfer spare money from current account to one investment.

In terms of budgeting, I don't. I know what all my basic costs are (rent, utilities etc.) and they're pretty much fixed. Any other purchases/spending, well I just decide at that point in time if it's worth it. Obviously for larger purchases I take more time to decide. So as I don't go out and make impulse purchases, and I know what my salary and basic costs are, I don't feel the need for any form of budgeting.

[S D]

mint for checking/savings/credit cards
personal capital for hsa/retirement/investment accounts
excel for general planning/rebalancing calculations/taking notes on tax strategy

[sw1tch]

mint for checking/savings/credit cards
personal capital for hsa/retirement/investment accounts
excel for general planning/rebalancing calculations/taking notes on tax strategy

I do similar with the following differences:

- Mint: mainly used for budgeting (expenses and cash on hand - checking/credit cards)
- Personal Capital: ALL accounts (tracking of net worth and to get a "big picture" of our finances)
- Excel: monthly net worth tracking of all accounts to show savings progress (no expenses)

That said I am a little anal and usually check these daily (except for Excel of course which I populate on the 1st of the month OR look at the statement for the month and use that amount if I can't do it on the 1st).  There isn't an expense that I don't look at and categorize.

[tarheeldan]

Quicken, upgrading every 3 years. If they ever go out of business, it shouldn't be too bad to export all of the data to Excel and build a beast of a spreadsheet.

[BoonDogle]

Excel for everything
 - One spreadsheet for retirement planning.  I update it once a year and it takes about 5-10 minutes
 - One spreadsheet for net worth.  I update it quarterly and it takes about 5-10 minutes
 - One spreadsheet for budgeting purposes.  My check register is in excel so I use a pivot table to summarize the info by month and for the year.  It probably takes 15 minutes or so every month to update transactions and hit the refresh button.