What state / city should I move to

[stashing_it]

My wife & I currently reside in a Seattle suburb and are looking to move to a lower cost of living area, since we have not been able to find a house to live in (that she wants) that we can afford

I work as an mechanical engineer in aerospace, making  ~ 120k
she works as a project manager at a tech company making ~ 90k

we are trying to decide where we want to move to

Requirements
1)  some kind of engineering or tech jobs in the area
2) housing prices significantly lower than the seattle area
3) good to excellent schools in the area


This is what we have thought so far

Top contender -  Ohio   -   Aerospace in Cincinnati and other cities.  appear to be a reasonable number of tech jobs.  We both have families in Ohio & neighboring states, and are from states that border Ohi

Similar states to Ohio -  Michigan, Indiana, western Pennsylvania   -  these should have decent schools, low COL, near family,  but I don't know the job market or what companies

Possible -  South Carolina -   I can transfer from my company to Charleston, but there appear to be only mediocre schools in the charleston area


Other thoughts

No to  Mountain states like  Colorado, Idaho -  my wife & her mother both get elevation sickness
No to  California  due to expense
Leaning away from New england states due to how crowded they are
We like Virginia, but housing, at least northern virginia, seems very expensive
willing to consider southern states / texas
I don't really have an opinion on south western states  (New mexico, arizona, Nevada)
I have a bit of a bias without being able to pin down a cause against plains states,   Kansas, Nebraska, SD, ND


What City / State would you recommend moving  to ?




More background info on housing.
We live with 1 baby + more planned + my wife's parents.   In the seattle suburbs we have been looking for a 4000+ square foot house   ( i know, I know we can do with much less, but that is what my wife + parents  "require" ).   that is also fairly nice in a good school district. We have not been to find that house at less than 1 million dollars.    However it appears to be fairly prevalent in say the Cincinnati suburbs at 500-600k

[StacheInAFlash]

This is an easy one: Minneapolis - St. Paul Metro. Lower cost of living than Seattle, awesome schools, plenty of tech jobs, and a similar progressive vibe to Seattle.

[Welshrabbit]

Have you considered Florida?  Lots of aerospace jobs, no state income tax, fairly low cost of living, and no snow.  Aside from the oppressive heat in the summer and the constant alligator attacks, it's a pretty good place to live!

[Kris]

This is an easy one: Minneapolis - St. Paul Metro. Lower cost of living than Seattle, awesome schools, plenty of tech jobs, and a similar progressive vibe to Seattle.

I came here to say this. Hands down.

[elgordorojo]

West Lafayette, IN (Purdue University)

[stashing_it]

I good basic rule, I think, is to look where Google has offices, which should be a signal for the prevalence of STEM jobs more generally:

http://www.google.com/about/company/facts/locations/

I would suggest Pittsburgh. Crappy winters, but very inexpensive. We'd move there if my husband's career didn't tie us to NYC. Don't know about aerospace, though.

Wow, thanks.     I've been trying to get into Google for data science in Seattle without luck so far.    Since I grew up in Pittsburgh, and went to school in Ann Arbor, it's neat to see they have offices there

This is an easy one: Minneapolis - St. Paul Metro. Lower cost of living than Seattle, awesome schools, plenty of tech jobs, and a similar progressive vibe to Seattle.

I appreciate the input.    This wasn't really on my radar at all, so I'll have to look at it

Have you considered Florida?  Lots of aerospace jobs, no state income tax, fairly low cost of living, and no snow.  Aside from the oppressive heat in the summer and the constant alligator attacks, it's a pretty good place to live!

Unfortunately, my 3 biggest fears are
-  Alligators
-  Crocodiles
-  Brain aneurysms

[wienerdog]

West Lafayette, IN (Purdue University)

Also Rolls Royce and Raytheon is down in Indianapolis. (little over an hour from Lafayette)

http://www.careerbuilder.com/jobs/indianapolis,in/keyword/aerospace-engineer

[Ricky]

$210k combined and can't find the house of her dreams in a suburb? I'm sure retirement is a priority, but c'mon...haha sorry that just makes me feel a little hopeless.

I second Florida, though a complete inverse in terms of weather to Seattle. Surely plenty of aerospace jobs.

[bobechs]

Minot, ND

In January.

[Thinkum]

I would say Texas seems that nice middle ground you seek. You can find pretty much any sort of job here since there are so many companies HQ'd here. COL is ridiculously cheap compared to the West Coast, I am from CA, Los Angeles area and now live in Dallas. I am not a parent, but from what I've been told from other transplants and locals is that the ISD's here are very good. It is very family orientated and the weather is actually quite mild taking into account the extremes. I can only speak for the greater Dallas and DFW area. It gets no where near as cold as it does in the northern states, but it can get pretty hot. Housing costs have been going up since everyone is moving here, but compared to the WC, it's still cheap. You should check it out. Last thing I'd mention is diversity. If it's important to you, then Texas has more of it. I was just looking this up and found a cool site that lists all that. Good luck.

[MudDuck]

I good basic rule, I think, is to look where Google has offices, which should be a signal for the prevalence of STEM jobs more generally:

http://www.google.com/about/company/facts/locations/

I would suggest Pittsburgh. Crappy winters, but very inexpensive. We'd move there if my husband's career didn't tie us to NYC. Don't know about aerospace, though.

Plus one for Pittsburgh, crappy winters and all.

[latetotheparty1977]

Cleveland. People seem to LOVE! it here, it's on the upswing, and super, super cheap. I'm a native. You CAN essentially buy a mansion (if that's what you seek), and potentially right on the lake, with the kinds of jobs you'd be able to get here. Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, Rocky River, Westlake and Bay Village are all gorgeous, or if you want something in the city, absolutely check out Ohio City and Tremont. NASA is here and I'm sure there's a lot more in your field. I would take Cleveland over Pittsburgh any day. Cleveland has awesome access to the beach and amazing natural areas like Cuyahoga Valley National Park and the fabulous Metroparks. It's also cheaper than Minn/St. Paul, by a long shot.

[ed1964]

check out NW Arkansas.

[stashing_it]

Minot, ND

In January.

That sounds like a good plan, especially if I can find a company that will let me do winters in Minot, and summers in Phoenix

[Frugal D]

$210k combined and can't find the house of her dreams in a suburb? I'm sure retirement is a priority, but c'mon...haha sorry that just makes me feel a little hopeless.

Yes, I'm curious what suburb in Seattle you're talking about? Must be on the east side? Because I know Auburn, Kent, Tacoma, etc. are dirt cheap.

[stashing_it]

$210k combined and can't find the house of her dreams in a suburb? I'm sure retirement is a priority, but c'mon...haha sorry that just makes me feel a little hopeless.

I second Florida, though a complete inverse in terms of weather to Seattle. Surely plenty of aerospace jobs.

Well,  I've found houses I'm plenty willing to live in but we haven't been able to get a family consensus on anything    (living with my wife's parents, which is super great for baby watching, not so great for total housing square footage required)

I appreciate the Florida input, that wasn't really on my radar previously

[samustache]

Minot, ND

In January.

That sounds like a good plan, especially if I can find a company that will let me do winters in Minot, and summers in Phoenix

Suffering through the Phoenix summer as we speak. That said, there's tons of high tech / aerospace and cost of living is low.

[stashing_it]

$210k combined and can't find the house of her dreams in a suburb? I'm sure retirement is a priority, but c'mon...haha sorry that just makes me feel a little hopeless.

Yes, I'm curious what suburb in Seattle you're talking about? Must be on the east side? Because I know Auburn, Kent, Tacoma, etc. are dirt cheap.

East redmond, sammamish, issaquah, north renton, woodinville, bothell   all seem to be in the 220-260  $ / sq ft range  or more   

Mukilteo, some parts of everett, some parts of Edmonds seem to be in the $ 200 / sq ft range  or more

Those suburbs all sit in the 45-60 minute commute range for us


I think there is a big premium over the Auburn, Kent, Federal Way etc areas due to school quality.   (I don't have a lot to go on, but the data i've seen show at least some of them to be quite poor, and several co-workers i've talked to in the area do private schooling / home schooling / or have transferred the kids into other school districts)


If you want to really get crazy, then the walking distance to downtown Bellevue houses are in the 500 / sq ft + range  ( I haven't really looked at these so I'm not sure)  but two different tear down houses near where I am renting a house both sold for 1.4 million

[zephyr911]

If you have a clearance and a pulse, you can make $80-100k+ in Huntsville, and I can get you into a decent townhouse for $60-80K (half that if you can rehab it yourself). Pretty sure this is one of the easiest places to FIRE ever.

Oddly enough, we're shopping for our FIRE home... on Whidbey. >.<

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Possible -  South Carolina -   I can transfer from my company to Charleston, but there appear to be only mediocre schools in the charleston area

Charleston is an awesome city, if you're into cities (and it sounds like you are). Lots of culture, lots of history. Along with Greenville, it's one of the few cities in SC that don't even come close to sucking. I mean that in the best possible way. I prefer small towns but love to visit Charleston. It's a bit rough around the edges, but probably no different than some of the other cities on your list. I think you would have no trouble finding good schools there, but I'm not exactly what you're looking for in that department? COL will definitely be cheaper than Seattle.

[Mr Dorothy Dollar]

Greater Detroit with emphasis on Greater. It is a hot bed of engineering, lower cost of living, and good schools in the suburbs. Mid-West is the best! With your careers and salary demands you will have to be in a metro area so pick a cheaper one. With your engineering degree you could hop from company to company in the Detroit area your whole career.

[hypertrichosis]

Everybody here seems to be praising where they are from/living and pushing for that area. I thought I saw Detroit on here. Here is what Wikipedia says about Detroit and when it peaked as a place to live:

Detroit reached its population peak in the 1950 census at over 1.8 million people, and decreased in population with each subsequent census; as of the 2010 census, the city has just over 700,000 residents, adding up to a total loss of 61% of the population.

Since Cincinnati is high on your list I thought I would opine here. I live in Cincinnati (13 years now) but am not originally from here so I am giving you outsider's perspective with no real emotional attachment to the place. I would move out West in a heartbeat. My problem is I am too invested here (some real estate investments, career in which I make too much money and I don't mind the work), and my kids are in schools they love while my wife likes our community and our house. I don't particularly. Vast majority of people here are hard core conservatives and I don't see eye to eye with them. The nature and active things to do are non-existent. Nearest lake is 3-4 hours away (almost too far away for a weekend), beach is 12+ hours away and no real mountains to speak of. Biking infrastructure is pretty terrible. If I want to go skiing, which I love, I always end up spending the $ and going to Colorado as the closest reasonable option since WV and Northeast do not fit the bill when I consider possibility of no snow, cost, distance. Don't get me started on "professional sports". Delta has abandoned Cincinnati as a hub so the large airport is mostly empty, there is only 1 direct connection to Europe remaining and direct connections within U.S. are harder to come by. And yet it stays near the top or at the top of the "most expensive airports to fly out of in the U.S." I've thought many times of moving to Denver, but I would have to take a 60-70% pay cut and the cost of living/real estate is double of what it is here so at this point it is a no go. As I've just discovered and converted to mustachianism beginning of 2015, I have a long way to go and have accepted this as the place where I will stay at least until my kids go to college. I will push them out West for school and we can hopefully join them at that point in time.

Think of it this way, where you are located now a house you want costs $1m. Here it is $500k or possibly less. There is a good reason for that. Unless you just have a completely different set of preferences than I do and you would fit in with what I described, then absolutely go for it.

It is not all bad, there are good things about Cincinnati, especially if you like baseball. I don't. Affordability, decent schools - especially if you are into private Catholic schools. I am not, so my kids go to a decent public school. There are plenty of Fortune 500 companies to work for and with the economy humming along and auto industry doing as well as they are, jobs seem plentiful. Anyway, this is getting too long and I realize I am complaining way too much (haven't yet finished the Stoicism book obviously). But I will be shocked if I retire here in hopefully ~10 years. And the climate in the Ohio River valley is a hotbed of allergy development with too many humid days for my taste! ;) Good luck.

[seattlecyclone]

A few thoughts:

1) Your family needs to adjust their expectations downward. You "need" a 4,000 square foot house, for four adults and one child? Quite frankly, that's insane! You don't each need 800 square feet to yourselves!

2) Even accepting these outrageous requirements as a given, the mortgage on such a house should be easily affordable for an otherwise frugal household with an income north of $200k. Suppose you buy that million dollar house. You put down 20% and finance $800k with a 30-year mortgage at 4%. The monthly payments on this loan are $3,819. Add in $10k for property tax (~1% of property value is rather typical around here) and you get an annual cost of $45.8k, less than a quarter of your combined salary. 30% of income is commonly tossed around as a threshold for "affordability" even for lower-income folks who need to spend much more of their money on necessities, so a house that costs you only around 23% sounds pretty nice by that metric!

3) Look real hard at whether the salaries in these other places are high enough that you would actually be able to save more money after taxes and housing costs than if you stayed put. Washington's lack of state income tax is really nice for those of us in high-income dual-earner households, and this difference should not be ignored when you're considering moving states. We also have very high salaries here. I don't know about the aerospace industry, but I know that Seattle has basically the highest gross software engineering salaries in the nation. The only other places that are potentially higher (SF Bay Area and NYC) have high local taxes and even more expensive housing than Seattle. I know that despite high housing prices, my wife and I are able to save loads more after expenses living in Seattle than we ever would if we lived in the Midwest where we grew up.

Suppose an "acceptable" house in Washington will require you to borrow an additional $400k compared to Ohio or Minnesota or Florida. At a 4% interest rate, that's costing you $16k per year. If the salary and tax hit you would have to accept to move is greater than this, you may be better off paying the high cost for housing, knowing that you'll probably get the principal back when you downsize homes after your in-laws and kids no longer live with you.

[AZDude]

I'm with the people saying 4,000 sq ft is somewhat ridiculous. Things to consider too, do your in-laws work or are they retired? Is your wife planning on working after baby #2, or #3? Sounds like yes, but if its a no, that changes your plans drastically.

If you are dead set on moving, I would second Alabama. I have heard Huntsville is the complete opposite of stereotypical Alabama, and has lots of highly educated people there. Sort of the aerospace capital of the deep south. Its also going to be dirt cheap. I have never been there. I have been to Alabama and would say its not my cup of tea, but more than one person has said that Alabama is not that bad if you find the right spot.

Good luck. Aerospace is not really in high demand in Phoenix, although there are some jobs here. Still, a 4,000 sq ft home that is going to meet your "requirements" here is going to run probably $500K or more. Seriously, daycare is probably cheaper than being forced to buy a home that meets the ridiculous standards of your in-laws.

[SunshineAZ]

Raytheon has a ton of open jobs in Tucson, AZ and it is not near as hot as Phoenix.

[zoltani]

Just want to pop in to say - you do know that elevation sickness is temporary don't you? If you ascend slowly enough, like drive there from here vs flying, then you may not notice it at all. Might not be a reason to rule out mountain states.

[DaMa]

I've lived in Greater Detroit most of my life.  Just say No.  I'm always shocked to find people who move here.

I have worked with people who love Indianapolis and Minneapolis-St. Paul. 

I lived in Phoenix for a year and loved it.  Summer is way too hot, but the rest of the year is just amazing.  People are nice.  Traffic is not terrible.  Lots to do and see.

[milesdividendmd]

Portlandia!  It's the greatist...