Author Topic: Playing with FIRE documentary  (Read 23082 times)

Travis

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #200 on: December 10, 2019, 06:07:16 AM »
Quote
-JL Collins is one of the most soothing people, I could listen to him talk about index funds all day and just feel reassured about life

He recorded a video a few months ago when the market was having one of its fits in which he's walking you through a meditation session. I'm dead fucking serious.

The TED talk-like thing that MMM did at the end of the movie is a great video to watch in its entirety. It gives a great breakdown of how most of us feel about FIRE and why he does what he does.  IMHO it would have been far more meaningful to the movie audience than the actual movie.

Amazing.

For your listening pleasure.

https://youtu.be/OOGU94eL07E

Malkynn

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #201 on: December 10, 2019, 06:19:58 AM »
Quote
-JL Collins is one of the most soothing people, I could listen to him talk about index funds all day and just feel reassured about life

He recorded a video a few months ago when the market was having one of its fits in which he's walking you through a meditation session. I'm dead fucking serious.

The TED talk-like thing that MMM did at the end of the movie is a great video to watch in its entirety. It gives a great breakdown of how most of us feel about FIRE and why he does what he does.  IMHO it would have been far more meaningful to the movie audience than the actual movie.

Amazing.

For your listening pleasure.

https://youtu.be/OOGU94eL07E

Absolutely brilliant.

neo von retorch

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #202 on: December 10, 2019, 06:49:41 AM »
I think what @fattest_foot and @Malkynn said sums up my feelings well. We enjoyed it more than I expected.

As others have said, her story was the highlight, and she was relatable. My spouse turned and asked what our savings rate was when it came up initially (JD Roth) and she was nodding along to a lot of the commentary on what it feels like to break out of the cattle lanes of mainstream life and judgement and start making your own choices.

Davnasty

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #203 on: December 10, 2019, 07:18:31 AM »
This is something of a tangent, but I think media platforms need a word for documentaries that are first and foremost, commercial entertainment products.

It doesn't make sense that something like "Playing with Fire" or "Buy this Juicer, It'll Change Your Life" should be listed in the same section with Ken Burns and PBS Frontline.

Documercial?

neo von retorch

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #204 on: December 10, 2019, 07:25:32 AM »
Also the first half hour being about how they live with their parents and don't pay rent was pretty distracting. Every time the topic came up we looked at each other and rolled our eyes. Someone should really tell them:

You don't have to pay for transportation if someone else pays for it!
You don't have to pay for food if someone else pays for it!
You don't have to pay for vacations if someone else pays for it!

fattest_foot

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #205 on: December 10, 2019, 07:31:49 AM »
Also the first half hour being about how they live with their parents and don't pay rent was pretty distracting. Every time the topic came up we looked at each other and rolled our eyes. Someone should really tell them:

You don't have to pay for transportation if someone else pays for it!
You don't have to pay for food if someone else pays for it!
You don't have to pay for vacations if someone else pays for it!

I mean, my major criticism (and several people have discussed it already) is just that they went about it in such a crazy, anti-FIRE movement way. Instead of cutting down to one car (or one luxury car and one beater), or downsizing their house, or cutting their $3000 a month food budget, they...decided to quit one of their jobs and move all over the country?

I think one (maybe several?) of the experts they interviewed even said, "This isn't about depriving yourself." But that's the route they went.

That's the part that annoys me. We were able to laugh at the absurdity of it, but it really gives a false narrative about what the whole thing is about. It's the same reason clickbait articles about FIRE piss me off. They make it sound like you have to be a miser to pursue FI.

arebelspy

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #206 on: December 10, 2019, 07:55:51 AM »
Thanks everyone for the kind words about my small apearance.

I don't remember what I said, but I'm glad I didn't put my foot too far in my mouth. :)

Quote
The TED talk-like thing that MMM did at the end of the movie is a great video to watch in its entirety. It gives a great breakdown of how most of us feel about FIRE and why he does what he does.  IMHO it would have been far more meaningful to the movie audience than the actual movie.

It definitely would have been more practical and useful.

It was a talk at the World Domination Summit.

We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

mathlete

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #207 on: December 10, 2019, 08:46:31 AM »
This is something of a tangent, but I think media platforms need a word for documentaries that are first and foremost, commercial entertainment products.

It doesn't make sense that something like "Playing with Fire" or "Buy this Juicer, It'll Change Your Life" should be listed in the same section with Ken Burns and PBS Frontline.

Documercial?

I can dig it!

mathlete

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #208 on: December 10, 2019, 09:01:05 AM »
I second (third, fourth?) that a "typical" FIRE story wouldn't make for a compelling documentary. Nobody wants to hear about how I got a good job, bought a used car, got a good deal on my house, and take cool vacations with the help of credit card churning.

arebelspy

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #209 on: December 10, 2019, 09:19:04 AM »
I second (third, fourth?) that a "typical" FIRE story wouldn't make for a compelling documentary. Nobody wants to hear about how I got a good job, bought a used car, got a good deal on my house, and take cool vacations with the help of credit card churning.
I'm intrigued, tell me more.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

Malkynn

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #210 on: December 10, 2019, 09:35:33 AM »
I second (third, fourth?) that a "typical" FIRE story wouldn't make for a compelling documentary. Nobody wants to hear about how I got a good job, bought a used car, got a good deal on my house, and take cool vacations with the help of credit card churning.

I don't agree.
If there's an audience for the blogs, forums, podcasts, and books, then there's a market for a movie/tv show.
There have already been multiple tv shows about people tackling debt. You could absolutely do a dpocumentary/docuseries about people who reject the level of lifestyle they could afford in favour of financial independence. How they socialize, their life hacks, what their friends and family think, what the hell they do with their time once retired, etc, etc.

Documentaries/docuseries looking into the day to day life of people who live just a bit off the beaten track are often hugely popular.

I just watched a series called "Couples Therapy", it's literally just watching normal people in couples therapy, and it's fucking transfixing.

mathlete

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #211 on: December 10, 2019, 09:43:21 AM »
I second (third, fourth?) that a "typical" FIRE story wouldn't make for a compelling documentary. Nobody wants to hear about how I got a good job, bought a used car, got a good deal on my house, and take cool vacations with the help of credit card churning.
I'm intrigued, tell me more.

ROFL! I almost put in a caveat that YOU GUYS might be interested. Just not the broad, documentary viewing audience.

spartana

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #212 on: December 10, 2019, 09:49:06 AM »
There's been several documentaries over the years about a FIREy-ish kind of life. "Affluenza" and the follow up "Escape from Affluenza" that were on PBS years ago come to mind. The FIRE movement isn't new, it is just more widely available to the masses because of the internet, blogs, podcasts, etc. 

DadJokes

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #213 on: December 10, 2019, 09:49:27 AM »
I second (third, fourth?) that a "typical" FIRE story wouldn't make for a compelling documentary. Nobody wants to hear about how I got a good job, bought a used car, got a good deal on my house, and take cool vacations with the help of credit card churning.

I don't agree.
If there's an audience for the blogs, forums, podcasts, and books, then there's a market for a movie/tv show.
There have already been multiple tv shows about people tackling debt. You could absolutely do a dpocumentary/docuseries about people who reject the level of lifestyle they could afford in favour of financial independence. How they socialize, their life hacks, what their friends and family think, what the hell they do with their time once retired, etc, etc.

Documentaries/docuseries looking into the day to day life of people who live just a bit off the beaten track are often hugely popular.

I just watched a series called "Couples Therapy", it's literally just watching normal people in couples therapy, and it's fucking transfixing.

I would absolutely watch a series that followed couples who were living the "unusual" FI lifestyle. There are many flavors of FI living, and I think there is a lot to explore there. It can cover people who are already FIRE'd, those late in the process, and those who are new to the concept and starting out.

I think non-FI people would be interested as well, because it can present a different side of FIRE than what they hear from the mainstream media. Instead of seeing it as deprivation, they can see that people living a FIRE lifestyle find happiness and fulfillment in many different ways.

FIFoFum

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #214 on: December 10, 2019, 10:59:08 AM »
I second (third, fourth?) that a "typical" FIRE story wouldn't make for a compelling documentary. Nobody wants to hear about how I got a good job, bought a used car, got a good deal on my house, and take cool vacations with the help of credit card churning.

I hear the 5/24 rule animation part rocks!

mathlete

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #215 on: December 10, 2019, 12:33:32 PM »
I second (third, fourth?) that a "typical" FIRE story wouldn't make for a compelling documentary. Nobody wants to hear about how I got a good job, bought a used car, got a good deal on my house, and take cool vacations with the help of credit card churning.

I hear the 5/24 rule animation part rocks!

I shudder to think of what would happen in this world. If word got out about churning via a popular documentary, I think we'd be looking at a 3/24 rule sooner of later.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #216 on: December 10, 2019, 12:45:40 PM »
I second (third, fourth?) that a "typical" FIRE story wouldn't make for a compelling documentary. Nobody wants to hear about how I got a good job, bought a used car, got a good deal on my house, and take cool vacations with the help of credit card churning.

I don't agree.
If there's an audience for the blogs, forums, podcasts, and books, then there's a market for a movie/tv show.
There have already been multiple tv shows about people tackling debt. You could absolutely do a dpocumentary/docuseries about people who reject the level of lifestyle they could afford in favour of financial independence. How they socialize, their life hacks, what their friends and family think, what the hell they do with their time once retired, etc, etc.

Documentaries/docuseries looking into the day to day life of people who live just a bit off the beaten track are often hugely popular.

I just watched a series called "Couples Therapy", it's literally just watching normal people in couples therapy, and it's fucking transfixing.
I guess if your FIRE habits involved something cool like recycled water, solar panels, biking to work and all that jazz, it might be relatable and interesting.

If your FIRE habits mainly involve spreadsheets, tax mitigation, steady investing and credit card churning then it might be harder to market. There's only so many ways to sexy that up.

Then there are some hacks that I wouldn't feel comfortable sharing to a large audience. There's nothing illegal or unethical about them but some financial tips are not for everyone, and are heavily jurisdiction dependent. E.g. how to maximise deductibility of vehicles. How to get banks to give you a lower rate.

I agree that it would be interesting to focus on what people do after they achieve financial independence/early retirement.

mathlete

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #217 on: December 10, 2019, 12:48:52 PM »
I second (third, fourth?) that a "typical" FIRE story wouldn't make for a compelling documentary. Nobody wants to hear about how I got a good job, bought a used car, got a good deal on my house, and take cool vacations with the help of credit card churning.

I don't agree.
If there's an audience for the blogs, forums, podcasts, and books, then there's a market for a movie/tv show.
There have already been multiple tv shows about people tackling debt. You could absolutely do a dpocumentary/docuseries about people who reject the level of lifestyle they could afford in favour of financial independence. How they socialize, their life hacks, what their friends and family think, what the hell they do with their time once retired, etc, etc.

Documentaries/docuseries looking into the day to day life of people who live just a bit off the beaten track are often hugely popular.

I just watched a series called "Couples Therapy", it's literally just watching normal people in couples therapy, and it's fucking transfixing.
I guess if your FIRE habits involved something cool like recycled water, solar panels, biking to work and all that jazz, it might be relatable and interesting.

If your FIRE habits mainly involve spreadsheets, tax mitigation, steady investing and credit card churning then it might be harder to market. There's only so many ways to sexy that up.

Agreed. This is what I had in mind when I said that few would be interested.

The typical FIRE story is a high income household living like a middle income household. Scott and Taylor could have hit FI pretty quickly just by living like middle 50% Americans. That wouldn't have been compelling though.

neo von retorch

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #218 on: December 10, 2019, 12:57:15 PM »
Things that are frugal and sexy:
  • Cooking delicious meals
  • Building deck chairs
  • Hosting parties (e.g. board games)
  • Visiting the park
They touch on this in the documentary in some places... take the kid to the park, batch cook breakfast, enjoy the company of your friends somewhere other than a restaurant (i.e. beach, etc.), play Ticket To Ride (!)

To reword this, take the misconceptions people have and turn them upside down. Investing is a few steps at first, and a lot less later. Almost as easy as creating a Facebook account, link up your bank account and then you just click here and type in a number, and you're buying mutual funds, which you can promptly forget about for the next ten years. Changing your oil... it can be hard and messy, but the documentary can just show you rolling under your car, twisting an oil filter wrench and letting the oil drain. Maybe you need "normal" people who don't know how to do these things, and you show them learning and see how they react after they've accomplished something they thought was a black box they could never learn.

Travis

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #219 on: December 10, 2019, 03:51:43 PM »
Things that are frugal and sexy:
  • Cooking delicious meals
  • Building deck chairs
  • Hosting parties (e.g. board games)
  • Visiting the park
They touch on this in the documentary in some places... take the kid to the park, batch cook breakfast, enjoy the company of your friends somewhere other than a restaurant (i.e. beach, etc.), play Ticket To Ride (!)

To reword this, take the misconceptions people have and turn them upside down. Investing is a few steps at first, and a lot less later. Almost as easy as creating a Facebook account, link up your bank account and then you just click here and type in a number, and you're buying mutual funds, which you can promptly forget about for the next ten years. Changing your oil... it can be hard and messy, but the documentary can just show you rolling under your car, twisting an oil filter wrench and letting the oil drain. Maybe you need "normal" people who don't know how to do these things, and you show them learning and see how they react after they've accomplished something they thought was a black box they could never learn.

Back when Pete was cranking out articles monthly, I was absorbing so many lessons of "holy crap, that's possible?"  He carried on that tradition in his Youtube channel earlier this year with a few episodes.  That kick in the pants years ago is what really got me started by breaking down the mental/financial barriers of how this all can work.  The number of podcasts and Youtube channels out there show these lessons can be conveyed in a TV-like medium.  I loved that the movie started out with Brandon just showing them the few changes that dramatically changed their retirement dates with a sprinkle of Vicki Robbins "your car costs this much of your working life."  I was hoping for a few more "numbers" lessons like how much they saved on eating out by meal-prepping or the total lifetime cost difference between her vehicle choices.

Bateaux

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #220 on: December 11, 2019, 11:23:40 AM »
I enjoyed watching the film.  It didn't grab me like it may a younger person in the journey.  It could help some along the way that are still scratching their heads.   I wish there were resources like this when we were young, thank you for your great work.   I hope you get some contracts that pay you well for your efforts and personal investment in the film.

calimom

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #221 on: December 11, 2019, 06:36:06 PM »
It really was a head-scratcher as to why Scott was not more transparent about his role as the producer in a FIRE documentary in this film. He just makes vague references to "looking for a work-from-home business or occupation after he quits his job and they hit the road, his wife being the primary breadwinner. To compare, and maybe it's a false equivalency, The Biggest Little Farm couple were very open and honest about their journey and it shows.

The scenes, though likely scripted, part in Iowa where he's cutting wood with his dad seemed authentic. Like, how did he ever get so far from his humble roots that he was mugging for selfies in San Diego in front of his new (leased) Jeep? And OK, we get a used Honda is not as sexy as (leased) BMW. She seemed to be slowly accepting that fact, despite the fact people in Coronado might think less of her by not having a (leased) European car. I wasn't particularly fussed about them living with family to save for a house or having some free childcare. Bend, Oregon is not a terrible place to end up.

The savings rate/years to retirement calculator that popped up periodically was interesting and show the average viewer the undeniable math. I liked the interviews and the FI conference, and Vicki Robin seems like such a smart and accessible person. Great to see MMM, JD Roth, Mad Fientist, et al. And @arebelspy , you and your wife appeared lovely and friendly in the part you were in. Very likely helpful to those viewing thinking enormous salaries are the only way to FIRE. Yes, accumulating real estate is another way to create wealth. Good on you.

BTDretire

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #222 on: December 12, 2019, 10:24:23 AM »
Thanks everyone for the kind words about my small appearance.

Have you got you IMDb page up yet, or signed up with SAG?  :-)