What is your FIRE age?

[SporeSpawn]

45. I am 25 now, so 20 years.

Several reasons here. First, I LOVE my work. I can't imagine much that I'd rather be doing with the bulk of my day than what I do now. That may change over time, but in my estimate now, I look forward to a lucrative career making the world a little bit better.

Second main reason, I want to save up a lot and don't expect to make more than, roughly, 80k at the max, with 60k being the average. I have more expenses than the standard bear, so I want a nice fat nest egg to sit on when I roost.

I figure, if I can get into a 60k/year job before I'm 26, retiring by 45 will be no problem at all.

[PerpetualWanderlust]

40. I started out making a great salary, which has helped me get ahead of the curve. I could probably be done with work around 35, but that would require working the same gig until then most likely. I think I would like to take one or two 6-12 month long sabbaticals to travel the world, which will hurt my FIRE date by a little. But I really want to travel when I'm younger and single, so I feel it needs to be done! 

[Prepube]

Nice, Normal distribution in the poll.  Gives me faith in statistics when that happens.

[Skyhigh]

I have been searching but I can not discover what the acronym FIRE means?

Jim

[iwasjustwondering]

Financially Independent/Retired Early

[EvenKeeled]

Hopefully when I'm 59. I just found this site in September and I'm 56 now. I have a pretty good amount invested, but not enough to cover my modest expenses.

I always feel mixed feelings reading about young folks who have a plan to FIRE before, say, 40. Wow, I wish someone had clued me in on the possibilities when I was younger. I've always been frugal, but generally haven't earned that much over the years. And though I haven't bought many things, I've spent quite a bit on therapy and similar experiences with what turned out to be a low ROI, and I don't mean in a money-earning way, just getting not enough value for all the dough spent.

The main thing, though, is how exciting it is to see a way to retirement when I used to feel clueless and wondered how I'd ever retire. I'm glad to learn about the 4% rule and hear so many great ways to cut spending.

[Skyhigh]

Financially Independent/Retired Early

Thank you iwasjustwondering.

My next question regards the definition of "Retire". To me it means the ability to support oneself entirely upon accumulated assets. The suspension of all income producing activities.   Here is seems to often include self employment or support through real estate assets that are then self managed and or maintained.

Does Financially Independent include self employment activities such as business ownership or real estate assets that are then self managed and or maintained?

Skyhigh

[MsRichLife]

I'm 37. I can FIRE now, but I'm sticking with the job for at least next year. DH is 35 and already FIREd.

[SwordGuy]

We started late.  Had we learned the MMM lessons 10 years ago we would be retired already...

[Two9A]

I'd love to FIRE by 40, which is ten years away, but I have such gigantic mortgages on underwater properties that I'll probably still be in negative net worth at 40.

So I put down 50-55.

[HawkeyeNFO]

Goal is age 44, because that's when I'll finish 20 years of military service, and start getting the retirement pay.  I have a good amount of savings as well, but also have 3 girls who will probably want to go to college and get married some day. 

[Mr.Chipper77]

52...! 2 years to go. Move to much smaller place and hopefully live a long and healthy life.

[desk_jockey]

My next question regards the definition of "Retire". To me it means the ability to support oneself entirely upon accumulated assets. The suspension of all income producing activities.   Here is seems to often include self employment or support through real estate assets that are then self managed and or maintained.

Skyhigh, 

I think you have the FI concept down pat, however please do some more reading on this site regarding what early retirement signifies.   Some REs do not earn other income, but most find with time on their hands and pursuing their own interests that at times they earn income.
 
Your definition is very limited, “A person is not retried if they have rental properties that are self-managed”.  Really?   What about a 75-year old who has a hobby of woodworking and sells pieces a few times each year at local art fairs?   What if a person self-manages their own investment account ?  or mows their own lawn?   
 
Most of us think a person who is RE doesn’t have to spend the rest of their life trying to avoid making any money.  The main MMM blog and many posts here have shared thoughts more eloquently than I can.   Please do a search for “Retirement Police”.   

[Mesmoiselle]

FI MMM style 8 years. I'm in it for the Fuck you money. Be picky rather than be picked, so I don't currently intend to quit all work at that point.

[OutBy40]

I am 33 and plan to be out by 40.  My wife is 28 and we are saving her entire salary and living completely off of mine.  The earlier, the better.  The rat race sucks, but I'm finding ways to make it as productive as possible (blogging). 

[arebelspy]

The most recent data suggests I will be in the first category.

[Carlos]

I plan to retire at 43 years old early next year. If my boss at work isn't an asshole I may complete the year to get a bonus. My FIRE journey started in earnest in 2009. Granted I was saving prior to this but I cut back expenses and got a couple of promotions such that my savings rate post tax has increased to 85% or more.

[DoubleDown]

...I cut back expenses and got a couple of promotions such that my savings rate post tax has increased to 85% or more.

Wow, nice!

[Skyhigh]

I believe that I achieved FI 12 years ago and RE is still out of reach. In my experience the concept of retirement means the suspension of all income generating activities. I own rental properties along with a business so there is a lot of work associated with them.

Skyhigh

[Cookie78]

36 now. I just joined and without actually doing all of the math yet, I'm striving for 45. However, I have a 2 year PanAmerican road trip coming up in 4.5 years (not expensive), which may set me back to 47.

[Cookie78]

36 now. I just joined and without actually doing all of the math yet, I'm striving for 45. However, I have a 2 year PanAmerican road trip coming up in 4.5 years (not expensive), which may set me back to 47.

Can the trip wait until after you are FIRE?  Maybe by postponing by just a couple of years you'll reach FI sooner than 45 and can do a round the world trip as long as you want then. However, I understand the desire to travel and took 2 years off work myself to do that. Probably set my ER date back a bit but worth it.

I've considered this. :) It's not set in stone just yet.

[Cookie78]

36 now. I just joined and without actually doing all of the math yet, I'm striving for 45. However, I have a 2 year PanAmerican road trip coming up in 4.5 years (not expensive), which may set me back to 47.

Can the trip wait until after you are FIRE?  Maybe by postponing by just a couple of years you'll reach FI sooner than 45 and can do a round the world trip as long as you want then. However, I understand the desire to travel and took 2 years off work myself to do that. Probably set my ER date back a bit but worth it.

I've considered this. :) It's not set in stone just yet.

Definitely worth considering as you will be so close to FIRE when you plan to take your trip that it's not you're having to put it off for a long period of time. I was still able to retire early (at 42) even with my 2 year long travel sabbatical but I was further from FI/RE when I did it but if I was close to RE like you are and could postpone it I would have.

What I need to consider is will a 2 year break set me back 2 years? Or more? Or less? I wouldn't be able to work remotely with my current job, but I may be able to work remotely and part time while I am on the trip if I get a different job (it's been done before). Living costs go WAY down when you are travelling like that and it might actually be financially beneficial. Also, depending when I go and what happens between now and then, I might have to find a job when I return, which may take time and set me back more. Lots to consider. :)

[Cookie78]

36 now. I just joined and without actually doing all of the math yet, I'm striving for 45. However, I have a 2 year PanAmerican road trip coming up in 4.5 years (not expensive), which may set me back to 47.

Can the trip wait until after you are FIRE?  Maybe by postponing by just a couple of years you'll reach FI sooner than 45 and can do a round the world trip as long as you want then. However, I understand the desire to travel and took 2 years off work myself to do that. Probably set my ER date back a bit but worth it.

I've considered this. :) It's not set in stone just yet.

Definitely worth considering as you will be so close to FIRE when you plan to take your trip that it's not you're having to put it off for a long period of time. I was still able to retire early (at 42) even with my 2 year long travel sabbatical but I was further from FI/RE when I did it but if I was close to RE like you are and could postpone it I would have.

What I need to consider is will a 2 year break set me back 2 years? Or more? Or less? I wouldn't be able to work remotely with my current job, but I may be able to work remotely and part time while I am on the trip if I get a different job (it's been done before). Living costs go WAY down when you are travelling like that and it might actually be financially beneficial. Also, depending when I go and what happens between now and then, I might have to find a job when I return, which may take time and set me back more. Lots to consider. :)

I was fortunate that I got my old job back when I returned - but only because the person who replaced me was leaving - otherwise I would have had to find a new job. But I agree, long term travel can be very inexpensive if you can give up the costs of keeping a home-base and all the expenses that entails.  I gave up everything and just lived out of a backpack for 2 years and staying at Hostels (with several months spent in inexpensive apts overseas) so didn't have any expenses except for food, transportation (no car so public or my bike or feet), and shelter. All very cheap.  So it probably will be financially beneficial to you as well. Especially if you can do remote work (I couldn't) or get some work gigs while travelling. I am in the process of selling my house to do full time travel in the spring (in North America - and maybe Central and South America as well - by car). No plans on for how long at all - just take it day by day (the benefit of waiting until you RE if you can). May end up finding a new place I love and stay there or may just continue on...forever :-)! Once I no longer have a dog I'd like to do the round the world thing again. Grungy backpacker budget style of course.

That sounds awesome! I've done the backpacking thing a lot, but never for more than 3 months at a time. The panamerican trip we are planning on driving with a vehicle that can accommodate sleeping, either with a rooftop tent, or a bed in the back. More expensive on gas, but far less accommodation costs. And we won't be driving all the time anyway, I plan to take my time and just go wherever we decide to go. My boyfriend is a little more destination driven, and a lot less sure about being away from home and work for so long, but we have some backup plans in place for that. For example, if he's aching to go home he can fly back for a couple months while I hang out on the beach in Costa Rica (or maybe somewhere cheaper), for example. :p

I'd love if you keep me posted on your trip starting next spring, or send me a link if you have a travel blog. :)

[BlueHouse]

easily cut myself off from the rest of the world without even thinking about it because that's my default mode of existence.

Good to know I'm not the only one.  Family and friends make me think there's something wrong with me, and I've even resorted to lying about how much I have to work to avoid going out.

[NinetyFour]

That sounds awesome! I've done the backpacking thing a lot, but never for more than 3 months at a time. The panamerican trip we are planning on driving with a vehicle that can accommodate sleeping, either with a rooftop tent, or a bed in the back. More expensive on gas, but far less accommodation costs. And we won't be driving all the time anyway, I plan to take my time and just go wherever we decide to go. My boyfriend is a little more destination driven, and a lot less sure about being away from home and work for so long, but we have some backup plans in place for that. For example, if he's aching to go home he can fly back for a couple months while I hang out on the beach in Costa Rica (or maybe somewhere cheaper), for example. :p

I'd love if you keep me posted on your trip starting next spring, or send me a link if you have a travel blog. :)

Your trip sounds great! I'll probably end up staying mostly in North America as I will be travelling alone (single female) so am a bit hesitant about a long trip alone thru Central and South America but who knows! I will also be travelling/sleeping in my small SUV or tent camping with occasional stays in budget motels and some off season (i.e. cheap!) vacation rental houses when I want to stay put for several weeks or a month or longer at a time.  I bring my bike and usually just park the car somewhere and ride my bike to sightsee to save on gas. I've actually been doing this (long road trips of several months a year in the US) for the last 10 or so years since I retired but always kept my house before (which I had paid off before retiring) so I think I'll feel less worry (about the house) and freer to spend as much time as I want in any place. Anyways, never done a blog but maybe I will this time.

Hey Spartana--I hope that you will still doing some travelling in 2018, which is when I might retire (depending on my numbers, I might work through summer of 2019).  I am single, female as well, and would love to meet up with you on the road!

[sleepyguy]

We're both 36 now.  I predict mine will be at 43-45.  Hers will be earlier maybe 40 or so, but she'll work part-time as a consultant for a pretty long time I think.  I'm unsure... I may work part-time if my company allows it (I don't hate my work at all, just takes up too many hrs in the week), but we'll see.  We like where we're headed though, our future is nice and open.

Those younger on these forms 20-25, have it pretty good.  Honestly if I knew then what I know now... I probably could be FIRE in the next few yrs.

Oh well, live you learn.

[NinetyFour]

Hey Spartana--I hope that you will still doing some travelling in 2018, which is when I might retire (depending on my numbers, I might work through summer of 2019).  I am single, female as well, and would love to meet up with you on the road!

Woo Hoo - another travelling ERer - well in a couple of years! Seems like that's a goal for a lot of people on this forum (Arebelspy and Daisy come to mind).

Well I might be settled down living somewhere permanently by that time, but I have wanderlust pretty strong so you never know.  Selling the house after the holidays and have been considering permanently renting rather than buying again - at least not until I'm ready for the old folks home - so that I'm not tied down to one place if the urge to go hits me. But if I am living somewhere permanently again you can always come visit me and drag me out on a long trip - I can never say no to a trip :-)!

Well, I don't know if the E (early) will apply to me, as I will be 56 or 57 when I pull the plug.  But that will be earlier than I had imagined before I started applying what I have learned here.  But yes, I do hope to do some slow traveling--mostly in the US to start with.  Very much looking forward to it!

[Threshkin]

Well, I don't know if the E (early) will apply to me, as I will be 56 or 57 when I pull the plug.  But that will be earlier than I had imagined before I started applying what I have learned here.  But yes, I do hope to do some slow traveling--mostly in the US to start with.  Very much looking forward to it!

I pull the plug in 4 weeks at the tender age of 57 and definitely consider myself RE.  The E is all in your attitude towards life, living and the future.

[Skyhigh]

My next question regards the definition of "Retire". To me it means the ability to support oneself entirely upon accumulated assets. The suspension of all income producing activities.   Here is seems to often include self employment or support through real estate assets that are then self managed and or maintained.

Skyhigh, 

I think you have the FI concept down pat, however please do some more reading on this site regarding what early retirement signifies.   Some REs do not earn other income, but most find with time on their hands and pursuing their own interests that at times they earn income.
 
Your definition is very limited, “A person is not retried if they have rental properties that are self-managed”.  Really?   What about a 75-year old who has a hobby of woodworking and sells pieces a few times each year at local art fairs?   What if a person self-manages their own investment account ?  or mows their own lawn?   
 
Most of us think a person who is RE doesn’t have to spend the rest of their life trying to avoid making any money.  The main MMM blog and many posts here have shared thoughts more eloquently than I can.   Please do a search for “Retirement Police”.   

I live off a portfolio of rental properties, and from developing real estate investments, and it does not feel like retirement to me. I do not work for someone else or collect a paycheck however it is still a lot of hard work.  I can not consider this as retirement. What you have described sounds like working a hobby job or being minimally employed. There is a lot of effort and stress involved with managing rental properties.

Just this morning I asked my wife if I could scale back and work a hobby job instead and she did not like the idea.

SKyhigh

[Koogie]

We hit FI when I was 37 (if you subscribe to the 4% rule).   Planning on ER next year at 42.  This will have brought the SWR rate down to 3.3%      I'd like to get it lower but just don't have the patience for it anymore.     

[Skyhigh]

My next question regards the definition of "Retire". To me it means the ability to support oneself entirely upon accumulated assets. The suspension of all income producing activities.   Here is seems to often include self employment or support through real estate assets that are then self managed and or maintained.

Skyhigh, 

I think you have the FI concept down pat, however please do some more reading on this site regarding what early retirement signifies.   Some REs do not earn other income, but most find with time on their hands and pursuing their own interests that at times they earn income.
 
Your definition is very limited, “A person is not retried if they have rental properties that are self-managed”.  Really?   What about a 75-year old who has a hobby of woodworking and sells pieces a few times each year at local art fairs?   What if a person self-manages their own investment account ?  or mows their own lawn?   
 
Most of us think a person who is RE doesn’t have to spend the rest of their life trying to avoid making any money.  The main MMM blog and many posts here have shared thoughts more eloquently than I can.   Please do a search for “Retirement Police”.   

I live off a portfolio of rental properties, and from developing real estate investments, and it does not feel like retirement to me. I do not work for someone else or collect a paycheck however it is still a lot of hard work.  I can not consider this as retirement. What you have described sounds like working a hobby job or being minimally employed. There is a lot of effort and stress involved with managing rental properties.

Just this morning I asked my wife if I could scale back and work a hobby job instead and she did not like the idea.

SKyhigh

Would you still be able to be FI f you just let a property manager et al handle everything so you could be free (time-wise) to do the things you want or would that take too big of a chunk out of the income?  Many people here enjoy managing their own investments - be they rental properties or financial investments or even caring for their own home, growing food, etc... - and so don't see it as "work". But if you do then see if you can eliminate that "work" and still be FI and therefore RE if you want even if it's on a lower passive income..

I opened a property management company six years ago to manage my portfolio of rentals along with others.  The goal is to  step away at some point. The problem is that there is a lot involved with successfully managing rental properties. it takes a long time to train employees and to establish the policies and procedures to manage and replace them.  I have to be competent at all functions of the business and that is very difficult for me. Also I underestimated how much my family would cost. Someday I will be able to step back but rental properties still need oversight if you want things to stay on track.

Skyhigh

[peabody58]

Three years ago I was looking at 62, then found MMM concepts.  Happy to say that we are now on track to FIRE in 8 months at age 57.  The power of focused actionable goals.

[Skyhigh]

My next question regards the definition of "Retire". To me it means the ability to support oneself entirely upon accumulated assets. The suspension of all income producing activities.   Here is seems to often include self employment or support through real estate assets that are then self managed and or maintained.

Skyhigh, 

I think you have the FI concept down pat, however please do some more reading on this site regarding what early retirement signifies.   Some REs do not earn other income, but most find with time on their hands and pursuing their own interests that at times they earn income.
 
Your definition is very limited, “A person is not retried if they have rental properties that are self-managed”.  Really?   What about a 75-year old who has a hobby of woodworking and sells pieces a few times each year at local art fairs?   What if a person self-manages their own investment account ?  or mows their own lawn?   
 
Most of us think a person who is RE doesn’t have to spend the rest of their life trying to avoid making any money.  The main MMM blog and many posts here have shared thoughts more eloquently than I can.   Please do a search for “Retirement Police”.   

I live off a portfolio of rental properties, and from developing real estate investments, and it does not feel like retirement to me. I do not work for someone else or collect a paycheck however it is still a lot of hard work.  I can not consider this as retirement. What you have described sounds like working a hobby job or being minimally employed. There is a lot of effort and stress involved with managing rental properties.

Just this morning I asked my wife if I could scale back and work a hobby job instead and she did not like the idea.

SKyhigh

Would you still be able to be FI f you just let a property manager et al handle everything so you could be free (time-wise) to do the things you want or would that take too big of a chunk out of the income?  Many people here enjoy managing their own investments - be they rental properties or financial investments or even caring for their own home, growing food, etc... - and so don't see it as "work". But if you do then see if you can eliminate that "work" and still be FI and therefore RE if you want even if it's on a lower passive income..

I opened a property management company six years ago to manage my portfolio of rentals along with others.  The goal is to  step away at some point. The problem is that there is a lot involved with successfully managing rental properties. it takes a long time to train employees and to establish the policies and procedures to manage and replace them.  I have to be competent at all functions of the business and that is very difficult for me. Also I underestimated how much my family would cost. Someday I will be able to step back but rental properties still need oversight if you want things to stay on track.

Skyhigh

UGH - Sounds like work :-)! I have a true passive income (small government pension) so it's hard for me to understand the desire for people who are FI to keep working when they don't want to any longer. But I know that when you have a spouse it's not always your sole decision.  Have you though about selling the business? Probably get a big stash to invest for a true passive income and be free from working.

Thanks buddy, however it will be a while yet for me. Life is unpredictable. I have a large family and it is only going to get more expensive. The good news is that my portfolio is growing slowly and rents rise.

Skyhigh

[Skyhigh]

My next question regards the definition of "Retire". To me it means the ability to support oneself entirely upon accumulated assets. The suspension of all income producing activities.   Here is seems to often include self employment or support through real estate assets that are then self managed and or maintained.

Skyhigh, 

I think you have the FI concept down pat, however please do some more reading on this site regarding what early retirement signifies.   Some REs do not earn other income, but most find with time on their hands and pursuing their own interests that at times they earn income.
 
Your definition is very limited, “A person is not retried if they have rental properties that are self-managed”.  Really?   What about a 75-year old who has a hobby of woodworking and sells pieces a few times each year at local art fairs?   What if a person self-manages their own investment account ?  or mows their own lawn?   
 
Most of us think a person who is RE doesn’t have to spend the rest of their life trying to avoid making any money.  The main MMM blog and many posts here have shared thoughts more eloquently than I can.   Please do a search for “Retirement Police”.   

I live off a portfolio of rental properties, and from developing real estate investments, and it does not feel like retirement to me. I do not work for someone else or collect a paycheck however it is still a lot of hard work.  I can not consider this as retirement. What you have described sounds like working a hobby job or being minimally employed. There is a lot of effort and stress involved with managing rental properties.

Just this morning I asked my wife if I could scale back and work a hobby job instead and she did not like the idea.

SKyhigh

Would you still be able to be FI f you just let a property manager et al handle everything so you could be free (time-wise) to do the things you want or would that take too big of a chunk out of the income?  Many people here enjoy managing their own investments - be they rental properties or financial investments or even caring for their own home, growing food, etc... - and so don't see it as "work". But if you do then see if you can eliminate that "work" and still be FI and therefore RE if you want even if it's on a lower passive income..

I opened a property management company six years ago to manage my portfolio of rentals along with others.  The goal is to  step away at some point. The problem is that there is a lot involved with successfully managing rental properties. it takes a long time to train employees and to establish the policies and procedures to manage and replace them.  I have to be competent at all functions of the business and that is very difficult for me. Also I underestimated how much my family would cost. Someday I will be able to step back but rental properties still need oversight if you want things to stay on track.

Skyhigh

UGH - Sounds like work :-)! I have a true passive income (small government pension) so it's hard for me to understand the desire for people who are FI to keep working when they don't want to any longer. But I know that when you have a spouse it's not always your sole decision.  Have you though about selling the business? Probably get a big stash to invest for a true passive income and be free from working.

Thanks buddy, however it will be a while yet for me. Life is unpredictable. I have a large family and it is only going to get more expensive. The good news is that my portfolio is growing slowly and rents rise.

Skyhigh

Ha Ha - Don't think I've ever been called buddy before (I'm female) but I kind of like it :-)!

Yeah as a single (divorced) childless person it is sooo much easier to attain FI then if you have a large family I think. Not impossible even on a lower income but just takes longer. But us single childless people have a lot more wiggle-room on how we can live (tiny apt or house, roommates, sailboat, etc...) and generally have much lower overall expenses for ...pretty much everything. I'm always pretty impressed with people here who have kids or a SAH spouse who manage to save money and retire fairly early.

People in your life are a huge variable. As a single person I was able to live on next to nothing. Now as a husband and father with six kids you kind of loose financial control. One of our sons was very sick a few years ago and that cost a lot. Everyone has unpredictable wants and needs. The big stuff we can curb but when someone has a desire for karate lessons or to learn how to drive it is imperative to their life progression to chip in.

I made an error by building a house in the country. I was told long ago by an old timer who practiced FIRE to avoid the big house in the country but I did it anyway and it indeed is very expensive. We raise cows and practice other income generation and cost cutting efforts to help offset the expenses but I would not do that again. My family loves it here though so we are kind of stuck.

One needs to try things in life and often it will not work out as you would expect, but that is life. As a result I have to work harder and longer at my management company and rental portfolio. Things are slowly getting better. Employees are helping a great deal. My primary point is that I have read MMM's blog about his real estate ventures and I can testify that it is a lot of work. I would not call it retirement.

Skyhigh

[arebelspy]

My primary point is that I have read MMM's blog about his real estate ventures and I can testify that it is a lot of work. I would not call it retirement.

Your starting a property management company is very different than other types of real estate investing. I would argue that's not even real estate investing, that's running a business.  If you manage your properties, THOSE are real estate investments.  But the company isn't.

There are real estate investments that are more active, and some more passive.

Real estate can be held in retirement, I don't think someone having real estate automatically is disqualified from being retired.

[dude]

54.5 -- I have to stick around another 4.5 years for the pension (which begins immediately after I retire, more or less, i.e., there's some processing time prior to receiving full benefit checks).  Totally, 100% worth it for me.

[Skyhigh]

My primary point is that I have read MMM's blog about his real estate ventures and I can testify that it is a lot of work. I would not call it retirement.

Your starting a property management company is very different than other types of real estate investing. I would argue that's not even real estate investing, that's running a business.  If you manage your properties, THOSE are real estate investments.  But the company isn't.

There are real estate investments that are more active, and some more passive.

Real estate can be held in retirement, I don't think someone having real estate automatically is disqualified from being retired.

When one owns rental properties you are obligated to manage them or to hire out the management of them. One solution is to open a property management company to defray the cost of managing yours along with paying customers. Eventually you will be able to step back from daily managing efforts but still have control over your investments.  Self managed single family homes take work if you are going to manage it yourself and do it right. Passive real estate investments often do not provide as good of a return. In the early years of FIRE often one needs to accomplish the work themselves.

As such I can not say that it fully qualifies as being retired. I suppose those who daily manage stock portfolios could say the same. If you have to do more than simply deposit a check every month for your subsistence  then it seems to me that it should be considered as being semi-retired.

Skyhigh

[arebelspy]

When one owns rental properties you are obligated to manage them or to hire out the management of them. One solution is to open a property management company to defray the cost of managing yours along with paying customers.

Sure, but that solution to defray the costs comes at the expense of more work.  Choosing an option that requires less money but more work, then complaining about the work required is silly.

Eventually you will be able to step back from daily managing efforts but still have control over your investments.  Self managed single family homes take work if you are going to manage it yourself and do it right. Passive real estate investments often do not provide as good of a return. In the early years of FIRE often one needs to accomplish the work themselves.

Again, of course you can juice returns by adding work (sweat equity, for example).  That doesn't mean all real estate is active and one can't retire while owning real estate. It's just that you choose to make more money via your active work.  That's fine.  It's just not relevant to everyone who doesn't choose those same things.

As such I can not say that it fully qualifies as being retired. I suppose those who daily manage stock portfolios could say the same. If you have to do more than simply deposit a check every month for your subsistence  then it seems to me that it should be considered as being semi-retired.

Your definition is not the same as everyone's definition.

[Skyhigh]

When one owns rental properties you are obligated to manage them or to hire out the management of them. One solution is to open a property management company to defray the cost of managing yours along with paying customers.

Sure, but that solution to defray the costs comes at the expense of more work.  Choosing an option that requires less money but more work, then complaining about the work required is silly.

Eventually you will be able to step back from daily managing efforts but still have control over your investments.  Self managed single family homes take work if you are going to manage it yourself and do it right. Passive real estate investments often do not provide as good of a return. In the early years of FIRE often one needs to accomplish the work themselves.

Again, of course you can juice returns by adding work (sweat equity, for example).  That doesn't mean all real estate is active and one can't retire while owning real estate. It's just that you choose to make more money via your active work.  That's fine.  It's just not relevant to everyone who doesn't choose those same things.

As such I can not say that it fully qualifies as being retired. I suppose those who daily manage stock portfolios could say the same. If you have to do more than simply deposit a check every month for your subsistence  then it seems to me that it should be considered as being semi-retired.

Your definition is not the same as everyone's definition.

These are all very interesting discussions.  Wikipedia defines Retirement as the point where a person stops employment completely. Wilki goes on to explain that Employment is a relationship between two parties, usually based on a contract, one being the employer and the other being the employee. Based upon our discussion here I guess I qualify as being retired !! 

 Skyhigh 

[arebelspy]

I wouldn't count running a company as retired for my personal self, but if you want to call yourself retired, I won't argue with you.  :)

[Skyhigh]

I wouldn't count running a company as retired for my personal self, but if you want to call yourself retired, I won't argue with you.  :)

I don't feel retired but am trying to understand the definition this group uses in regards to FIRE.

Skyhigh

[arebelspy]

I wouldn't count running a company as retired for my personal self, but if you want to call yourself retired, I won't argue with you.  :)

I don't feel retired but am trying to understand the definition this group uses in regards to FIRE.

Skyhigh

Believe it or not, there is no consensus among a group of 15,000ish very different individuals.  :)

So for the purposes of a poll like this, the definition is left to the individual.

[Cookie78]

I'm starting a small business that I can see myself still wanting to do after I am FIRE'd. I'd still consider that retired because it's something I want to do for enjoyment. From what I gather Skyhigh, you aren't running the business out of enjoyment, and don't consider yourself retired, therefore you are not. Someone in your same circumstances who loved running the business for fun might think differently. I think that largely it's more about attitude than what you are or are not doing for income.

[Skyhigh]

I'm starting a small business that I can see myself still wanting to do after I am FIRE'd. I'd still consider that retired because it's something I want to do for enjoyment. From what I gather Skyhigh, you aren't running the business out of enjoyment, and don't consider yourself retired, therefore you are not. Someone in your same circumstances who loved running the business for fun might think differently. I think that largely it's more about attitude than what you are or are not doing for income.

I would much rather do something else with my time on this planet than property management but this is what pays the bills right now. Years ago I calculated that where I live one needed 20 rental homes in order to become Financially Independent enough to support a family of four to a middle class standard. In time as mortgages are paid off and rents increase 20 homes should provide for a financial surplus.  20 homes is a lot of work and almost a full time job at that. Creating a system of self management is a part of the plan.  It just takes time to develop.

Most of my rental portfolio I built or remodeled. I like doing that stuff much more than learning software or dealing with customers. The housing collapse contributed to my mission being changed into the property management direction. As the banking environment improves I hope to be able to resume construction efforts.

[Daisy]

36 now. I just joined and without actually doing all of the math yet, I'm striving for 45. However, I have a 2 year PanAmerican road trip coming up in 4.5 years (not expensive), which may set me back to 47.

Can the trip wait until after you are FIRE?  Maybe by postponing by just a couple of years you'll reach FI sooner than 45 and can do a round the world trip as long as you want then. However, I understand the desire to travel and took 2 years off work myself to do that. Probably set my ER date back a bit but worth it.

I've considered this. :) It's not set in stone just yet.

Definitely worth considering as you will be so close to FIRE when you plan to take your trip that it's not you're having to put it off for a long period of time. I was still able to retire early (at 42) even with my 2 year long travel sabbatical but I was further from FI/RE when I did it but if I was close to RE like you are and could postpone it I would have.

What I need to consider is will a 2 year break set me back 2 years? Or more? Or less? I wouldn't be able to work remotely with my current job, but I may be able to work remotely and part time while I am on the trip if I get a different job (it's been done before). Living costs go WAY down when you are travelling like that and it might actually be financially beneficial. Also, depending when I go and what happens between now and then, I might have to find a job when I return, which may take time and set me back more. Lots to consider. :)

I'm also contemplating putting off any serious international travel until I FIRE in one or two years. It just doesn't seem worth the effort and money required to go for a short spurt.

For example, I am thinking of hiking the Camino de Santiago in northern Spain, which if done properly would be a 3 month hike to do the whole thing. I was talking to someone at work about it and they said they knew someone that went for a week and did a portion of it. That short time just doesn't interest me so it's not worth paying for a transatlantic flight for such a short time. I'm thinking this trip to Spain would also be bookended with a week stay in some of the bigger cities such as Barcelona and some cities along the way. I've been there before, but just on shorter trips. It would be nice to relax my way through it and really experience it fully. My ancestors are from this area so it would be somewhat of a reflective journey as well.

I'll keep the travel in the near future before FIRE more domestic and sports oriented such as skiing. Or, do more staycations. As I get older, I just want to chill more and working and travelling on my few days off (well I consider 6 weeks off few compared to FIRE ;-) ) means little chill-time, so I might just want to use that time off to relax at home (which is also a tourist destination).