Author Topic: How Un Mustachian was I?  (Read 15943 times)

daverobev

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2017, 08:19:39 PM »

Let me rephrase, then: antagonistic. You're telling anyone disagreeing with you they are wrong.

Discussion: You made a sub-optimal, non mustachian purchase. That's a fact. You could've got what you needed (transport, big enough so your knees aren't on the dash) considerably more cheaply. There's no min/max here. No frugality.

Did you do the *wrong* thing? There is no wrong thing, on an individual level. Your car isn't much worse from a pure fuel consumption perspective than a Camry, which is a decent family vehicle.

I used to buy cars and repair them and sell them for more money in my younger years. I heard the same sob story time after time. "I bought this cheap car with cash so I wouldn't have a payment, it blew the transmission/headgasket/failed inspection and now it will cost more to fix than the car is worth". If I had a dime for every time I heard that I'd be a rich man.

Cost is something that has to be taken in context. You see this in car parts all the time. An off-brand timing chain tensioner can be had for say $70 vs. the name brand $140, yet the off-brand has numerous reports of pre-mature failure causing thousands in damage to internal engine components as pistons hit valves.

This guy didn't spend $18k on a car to use just six months, or a year, he bough it for long term use with a long term cost that will most likely rival his previous car or any "cheap" car, and in this day and age practically any used car. Used car prices are ridiculous and reflect a linear depreciation curve in most cases except for some oddballs like the aforementioned Nissan Leaf.

Sure, and as I posted earlier, our household bought two.. count 'em... two new vehicles last year.

It was not mustachian. But life isn't *just* about being mustachian. Again; I didn't say OP was wrong to buy the car they did. It's not (too) terrible on fuel. Hyundai, as I have read elsewhere, is called the 'new Honda' - as in, 20 years ago a Honda was a cheap good car. Now Honda is living on its reputation (not that they don't make good cars, but they aren't cheap).

I did the rough analysis, based on the prices we paid, and as you say - buying newer but not new didn't make much sense; buying old means more time being serviced/fixed, some stuff not working, and a short lifetime (have to go through the whole rigmarole again in 3-5 years).

Again, this was the whole purpose of my OP. You are acting like I did it to start a fight. I did it to shed light on the fact that it has become semi doctrine here to create this neat little 'life choice box' that describes the exact type of purchase that everyone should make and I think that's BS. I think that one can buy a brand new SUV without giving up their frugality. I also think that you can get a nice relatively large home and be frugal.  Some here think that anything other than a tiny hatchback and 1000 sq ft home is wasteful and I completely disagree.

Eh, no, I think philosophically you're making a somewhat wasteful choice from a frugality/mustachian perspective. The better choice, for both of us, would've been a Toyota Matrix. A large home may be something you choose; but as a non-North American, the amount of waste in even a 'modest' home is amazing - there is so much space here. But, if you're running a/c, or heating from -20 degrees C, having a large home IS wasteful.

So your discussion is "buying a new car isn't unmustachian"... but it is. It goes against frugal principles. Having a large home is a constant drain on resources. Unless it makes more than it costs (garage with tools that you use to make money/help out friends).

I'm re-reading the Early Retirement Extreme book. It would categorically say that having a large home is wasteful. Owning a new vehicle is wasteful.

That doesn't mean don't do it (but... seriously... home sizes are nuts, especially if you need cooling or heating). *Someone* has to buy new vehicles sometimes. I'm planning on my new van being a once in a lifetime thing. We'll see.

Getting a good deal is not *the thing* with mustachianism. Being frugal is. Paying too much for a 10 year old Matrix is better than getting a good deal on a new SUV. From a mustachian perspective.

Dicey

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2017, 09:49:08 AM »
I'm 5'10 and not really comfortable in anything except a minivan. As for reliability, my 2001 $1300 Dodge minivan has been very reliable for the last 1.5 years. I saw a brand new Tahoe with dealer plates still on it burned to the ground on the side of the road yesterday. I don't think NEW has anything to do with reliability.

You mention investing your money instead of paying cash so I assume you could have paid cash which is good. That probably means if you really had to, you could get the money to pay it off ASAP if needed.

My questions are.... how many times will you live? What day and time are you going to die? If your answers are.... once for the first question and you can't answer the others, that means you better enjoy yourself while you're here cuz you never know when it will end.
The Tahoe example is clearly an outlier. (If it was "burned to the ground", how do you know it had dealer plates? Also they put dealer plates on used cars, too. Most cars don't burn, particularly new ones.)

As to your "questions" paragraph...it easily makes the case either way, but it's not all that relevant in a mustachian context. We all know we only live once and that our date of death is wildly variable. However, the I-need-to-buy-X-because-I-only-live-once rationalization doesn't apply. Do it or do not, as best fits your needs, goals, and FIRE expectations, not because you don't know when you're gonna die.

badger1988

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2017, 06:36:15 PM »
6'2" owner of a 2011 Ford Fiesta here...with a pair of two year olds and a third baby on the way. It's pretty cramped with the rear facing seats, but now that my boys are forward facing there isn't any issue at all. I've already tested out some three carseat options, and I will be able to make that work. Granted, this isn't our primary family car (also have a Fusion). It definitely wouldn't be practical as a primary vehicle due to the lack of space, but it works just fine for moving people.

Regarding the SUV purchase...there are definitely better choices out there, but its probably a better choice than the Fiesta. My wife picked ours out...I never really liked it, and once we had kids I inherited it...funny how that works. Unfortunately, it's quite practical in our situation so I'll be driving it for several more years.

P.S. My AC has also been out for the last two months...it'll be nice when I get around to fixing it. I'm the guy flying down the highway with all four windows down and beard flapping in the wind.

Edit: Also forgot to mention the fact that you are considering trading in for a Model 3 in 5-7 years does make me question the decision more. A new car should last more than 5-7 years.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 08:07:09 PM by badger1988 »

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2017, 09:21:50 AM »
After my 2008 Ford Focus (101k miles) began needing repairs and its AC went out, I bought a used 2014 Honda CRV with 36k miles for about $16,300.  I could have afforded a ton more and thought I made a pretty reasonable and well thought out purchase.

Of course, I came on here to discuss the purchase, and posters on here love nothing more than shitting on people who purchased anything better than a ten-year old Toyota.  People criticized every aspect of my purchase ("You don't need A/C!!!") much the same way people are in this thread.

You don't need to justify your purchase to anyone on here. Like you, I could have technically bought a much cheaper car, but I bought one I wanted, love driving it, and plan to own it for at least 15 years. That alone puts me ahead of 80% of people. I'm fine not being in the 99th frugality percentile, and you should too.

Bucksandreds

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2017, 09:53:00 AM »
After my 2008 Ford Focus (101k miles) began needing repairs and its AC went out, I bought a used 2014 Honda CRV with 36k miles for about $16,300.  I could have afforded a ton more and thought I made a pretty reasonable and well thought out purchase.

Of course, I came on here to discuss the purchase, and posters on here love nothing more than shitting on people who purchased anything better than a ten-year old Toyota.  People criticized every aspect of my purchase ("You don't need A/C!!!") much the same way people are in this thread.

You don't need to justify your purchase to anyone on here. Like you, I could have technically bought a much cheaper car, but I bought one I wanted, love driving it, and plan to own it for at least 15 years. That alone puts me ahead of 80% of people. I'm fine not being in the 99th frugality percentile, and you should too.

Everyone thinks I was here with this OP looking for people to agree with me. My point was to make a point. It's that this one size fits all box created and nearly universally accepted here is stupid and that all new non tiny cars are not "Clown cars."  Not all will agree with me but the having to buy a used Fit or Leaf or youre not being frugal is absurd.

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2017, 10:20:39 AM »
After my 2008 Ford Focus (101k miles) began needing repairs and its AC went out, I bought a used 2014 Honda CRV with 36k miles for about $16,300.  I could have afforded a ton more and thought I made a pretty reasonable and well thought out purchase.

Of course, I came on here to discuss the purchase, and posters on here love nothing more than shitting on people who purchased anything better than a ten-year old Toyota.  People criticized every aspect of my purchase ("You don't need A/C!!!") much the same way people are in this thread.

You don't need to justify your purchase to anyone on here. Like you, I could have technically bought a much cheaper car, but I bought one I wanted, love driving it, and plan to own it for at least 15 years. That alone puts me ahead of 80% of people. I'm fine not being in the 99th frugality percentile, and you should too.

Everyone thinks I was here with this OP looking for people to agree with me. My point was to make a point. It's that this one size fits all box created and nearly universally accepted here is stupid and that all new non tiny cars are not "Clown cars."  Not all will agree with me but the having to buy a used Fit or Leaf or youre not being frugal is absurd.

This is correct with basically everything on this website. I'm going to boil over and have a global rant post once, but for now, I'll just say the most annoying aspect of this forum is that everyone takes what the actual MMM does as doctrine, but conveniently ignores that he makes some sub-optimal choices with respect to frugality (e.g., having a huge $400,000 home). This leads to a bunch of closed-mindedness and people slamming others for not taking the most frugal route possible.

When I was looking at threads regarding engagement rings, half the posters would rather buy a sulpher stone from a hippo's ass on Craigslist for $40 instead of a nice ring. A real treat on top of that was moissanite, which is basically engineered diamonds.  I think MMM recommended this. No thanks. I spent $1,800 on an extremely high quality .5 carat diamond and beautiful ring that my wife absolutely loves. Worth it.

When I wanted my then-GF and I to stop paying $100 for gym memberships, I looked on here again. All the threads recommended squat racks, used Olympic lifting equipment, and running outside--because this is what MMM does. I considered our climate here and determined we'd spend hundreds over the long haul just on clothes to deal with the weather. I also considered the fact that both my wife and I have issues with our lower body (her hips, my knee), and frequently running on pavement or bumpy trails was not an option. We ended up buying a top-of-the-line Precor elliptical for $2,300. We've had it for almost two years now and it's paid for itself. Worth it.

On and on and on, there's an army of frugal warriors on here who will criticize you at every turn when you don't make the most absolute frugal decision. It's nonsense. Only you know all the aspects of your situation and every angle that should be analyzed.

So I agree with the purpose of your post--sometimes, the most frugal decision is not the best decision for your particular circumstance. And that's fine.

mathlete

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2017, 10:25:24 AM »
This is correct with basically everything on this website. I'm going to boil over and have a global rant post once, but for now, I'll just say the most annoying aspect of this forum is that everyone takes what the actual MMM does as doctrine, but conveniently ignores that he makes some sub-optimal choices with respect to frugality (e.g., having a huge $400,000 home). This leads to a bunch of closed-mindedness and people slamming others for not taking the most frugal route possible.

When I was looking at threads regarding engagement rings, half the posters would rather buy a sulpher stone from a hippo's ass on Craigslist for $40 instead of a nice ring. A real treat on top of that was moissanite, which is basically engineered diamonds.  I think MMM recommended this. No thanks. I spent $1,800 on an extremely high quality .5 carat diamond and beautiful ring that my wife absolutely loves. Worth it.

When I wanted my then-GF and I to stop paying $100 for gym memberships, I looked on here again. All the threads recommended squat racks, used Olympic lifting equipment, and running outside--because this is what MMM does. I considered our climate here and determined we'd spend hundreds over the long haul just on clothes to deal with the weather. I also considered the fact that both my wife and I have issues with our lower body (her hips, my knee), and frequently running on pavement or bumpy trails was not an option. We ended up buying a top-of-the-line Precor elliptical for $2,300. We've had it for almost two years now and it's paid for itself. Worth it.

On and on and on, there's an army of frugal warriors on here who will criticize you at every turn when you don't make the most absolute frugal decision. It's nonsense. Only you know all the aspects of your situation and every angle that should be analyzed.

So I agree with the purpose of your post--sometimes, the most frugal decision is not the best decision for your particular circumstance. And that's fine.

Good post. I've noticed that there's been a rather preachy pivot to environmentalism too. i.e., OP shouldn't buy an SUV because the lower MPG is worse for mother earth.

I very much care about the environment, but lets be real. All of us simply existing in civilized society is objectively awful for the planet. I think it is good to do what we can in order to reduce our impact, but we're mostly splitting hairs.

wannabe-stache

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2017, 12:23:44 PM »
I'm 6'5" and fit fine in small cars, so I think you may be overplaying that a little.

6'7" person here, I fit great in my 2005 honda civic, and I fit great in my 2009 nissan versa.

Calling BS on a 6'3"-er needing an SUV because you can't fit in small cars.

i think you need to just let it go.  i am only 6'2" but my inseam is 36"+...i basically have the leg length of a 6'5"+ person.  Makes me a great runner but cars and planes are quite uncomfortable.  OP might be in the same boat.
Should have put it this way. The 80% of the time I'm driving by myself it's ok. My kids car seats, when occupied in the back seats, forced me to move my seat so far forward, I was squished.

I have 2 kids in the back.  Still calling bs on the need for an SUV for space.

daverobev

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2017, 12:39:21 PM »
Oh my God. I'm aghast at how much the OP and those supporting them don't "get it".

I wish I were able to write/explain my position more clearly.

"I care about the environment but getting a SUV is fine"... Look, if it's to haul a load of people around, or big dogs and bikes, or whatever, cool. But pushing back against 1) living close to work and walking/biking is best 2) driving a small car, ideally electric, is the next option is crazy. It's OK not to DO the best thing if you really can't make your life work like that. But the first step in fixing a problem is realising you have one (commuting 35 miles is a problem).

Gym membership is absolutely fine if you get the value out of it! Nobody with half a brain will seriously take issue with it.

It's the.. having gym membership *when you don't go* that is the problem. It's *driving 20 miles to Costco to save $3*.

Every little bit helps. Turning down the heat in winter, turning the a/c up or off in summer. Drinking more water and less stuff that has to be shipped. Eating less meat. It's endless - yes, of course there is "reductio ad absurdum" - ideally we'd have 0-1 children, work from home with solar power, all live where you can eat off the local produce grown. Ideally power companies work hard on carbon recapture. Ideally.

The world's "hair" is on fire and we're being frogs in gradually heating water. (And yes - I well know - I'm a fucking hypocrite, because I burn natural gas for heat - but that's the point, kind've - I know and accept that I'm completely imperfect - and I AM trying to reduce my impact).

Clean Shaven

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2017, 12:56:20 PM »

 half the posters would rather buy a sulpher stone from a hippo's ass on Craigslist for $40 instead of a nice ring.

That's a pretty good deal on a genuine hippo ass stone.

skeeder

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2017, 01:04:23 PM »
I think this was a great move. 

I'm 6'3" and I hear ya about the space thing.  Alot of people seem to be nah-sayers when it comes to space, but I have 3 boys and there is no way I'd want to own a Civic for our adventures.  (bikes, plus camping gear, plus...plus...).  My opinion, you just bought 10 years of dependable car operation.  Pay it off, keep the payment going into savings and you'll be all set.


ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2017, 01:07:29 PM »
Every little bit helps.

This is where everyone draws the line. What to you might be a "little bit" might not be worth it to me. The assumption that what you are doing is correct and what others are doing is wrong completely ignores the dozens of variables at play for each decision.

DarkandStormy

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #62 on: July 24, 2017, 01:58:47 PM »
My Ford Fiesta was rattling when over 70mph, wouldn't always start on first try and had a blown AC. I drive 70 miles round trip daily. Yesterday I was offered $4000 off MSRP on a 2017 Hyundai Tucson SUV (I'm 6'3" and could barely fit in my car) with 25 miles on it. They are clearing out the 17s and I played 2 dealerships off each other. I paid $18,700 brand new and financed at 2.2% because I'd rather invest my money in the market and pay that rate. The 2015s with 35,000 miles are asking $15,000 plus on auto trader. It gets 30mpg highway (all I drive) and is 5 star safety rated (2 toddlers) short of moving by my work was I crazy to think that this was a decent decision? I could have spent maybe $5,000-$7,000 less to get a lightly used Honda Fit but i don't fit well in small cars and I absolutely have to have great reliability due to my job so couldn't get a clunker.

1) You didn't play anyone.  https://www.hyundaiusa.com/tucson/index.aspx $4,000 off is literally their summer sales event on this vehicle.  It looks like there's an option to finance at 0% with $1,500 cash back...upon further review, it's 0.0% APR.

2) Your issue is driving 17,500 miles/year for your commute.  That's if you do no other driving, which I'm guessing isn't the case.  Let's round up to an even 20k miles.  At 28 mpg (it's not all going to be 30 mpg freeway), that's 714 gallons of gasoline for a year.  At an average of $2.25/gallon, that's $1,600+ in fuel costs alone for a year.  If you had gotten a Prius at 50 mpg, your fuel costs would be $900.  So you're losing out on $700+ annually to invest (in addition to spending more on the car payments).  That gap will only increase if the price of fuel increases.  You could find a 6 or 7 year old Prius for ~$9k, maybe even less.  So you paid more than double to waste more fuel all for "newness."

3) Plenty of tall folks (myself included) have provided stories of fitting just fine in subcompact and compact cars so I don't buy that as an excuse - maybe it's laziness since you didn't want to go sit in one or two of them to find out for yourself?

4) That said, it's your life and your decision.  I'm not sure what you want from posting about it?  Basically everyone could post their rationale for their latest car purchase and some people will approve and some people will find things wrong with it.  If you're comfortable with it and can afford it, why are you asking the Mustachian community about it after the fact?

Bucksandreds

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2017, 04:38:13 PM »
My Ford Fiesta was rattling when over 70mph, wouldn't always start on first try and had a blown AC. I drive 70 miles round trip daily. Yesterday I was offered $4000 off MSRP on a 2017 Hyundai Tucson SUV (I'm 6'3" and could barely fit in my car) with 25 miles on it. They are clearing out the 17s and I played 2 dealerships off each other. I paid $18,700 brand new and financed at 2.2% because I'd rather invest my money in the market and pay that rate. The 2015s with 35,000 miles are asking $15,000 plus on auto trader. It gets 30mpg highway (all I drive) and is 5 star safety rated (2 toddlers) short of moving by my work was I crazy to think that this was a decent decision? I could have spent maybe $5,000-$7,000 less to get a lightly used Honda Fit but i don't fit well in small cars and I absolutely have to have great reliability due to my job so couldn't get a clunker.

1) You didn't play anyonehttps://www.hyundaiusa.com/tucson/index.aspx $4,000 off is literally their summer sales event on this vehicle.  It looks like there's an option to finance at 0% with $1,500 cash back...upon further review, it's 0.0% APR.

2) Your issue is driving 17,500 miles/year for your commute.  That's if you do no other driving, which I'm guessing isn't the case.  Let's round up to an even 20k miles.  At 28 mpg (it's not all going to be 30 mpg freeway), that's 714 gallons of gasoline for a year.  At an average of $2.25/gallon, that's $1,600+ in fuel costs alone for a year.  If you had gotten a Prius at 50 mpg, your fuel costs would be $900.  So you're losing out on $700+ annually to invest (in addition to spending more on the car payments).  That gap will only increase if the price of fuel increases.  You could find a 6 or 7 year old Prius for ~$9k, maybe even less.  So you paid more than double to waste more fuel all for "newness."

3) Plenty of tall folks (myself included) have provided stories of fitting just fine in subcompact and compact cars so I don't buy that as an excuse - maybe it's laziness since you didn't want to go sit in one or two of them to find out for yourself?

4) That said, it's your life and your decision.  I'm not sure what you want from posting about it?  Basically everyone could post their rationale for their latest car purchase and some people will approve and some people will find things wrong with it.  If you're comfortable with it and can afford it, why are you asking the Mustachian community about it after the fact?

Wrong. Those advertised deals are only if you're a boost Mobile user and drive Uber. If you're going to attack me then make sure you know what you're talking about. Also, did you just make up the 0.0%. Hyundai offers 4.48% on the Tucson, assuming 700 or better credit and that is from the link you gave. Your laziness or lies are making you look silly.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 04:48:44 PM by Bucksandreds »

Bucksandreds

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #64 on: July 24, 2017, 04:44:50 PM »
My Ford Fiesta was rattling when over 70mph, wouldn't always start on first try and had a blown AC. I drive 70 miles round trip daily. Yesterday I was offered $4000 off MSRP on a 2017 Hyundai Tucson SUV (I'm 6'3" and could barely fit in my car) with 25 miles on it. They are clearing out the 17s and I played 2 dealerships off each other. I paid $18,700 brand new and financed at 2.2% because I'd rather invest my money in the market and pay that rate. The 2015s with 35,000 miles are asking $15,000 plus on auto trader. It gets 30mpg highway (all I drive) and is 5 star safety rated (2 toddlers) short of moving by my work was I crazy to think that this was a decent decision? I could have spent maybe $5,000-$7,000 less to get a lightly used Honda Fit but i don't fit well in small cars and I absolutely have to have great reliability due to my job so couldn't get a clunker.

1) You didn't play anyone.  https://www.hyundaiusa.com/tucson/index.aspx $4,000 off is literally their summer sales event on this vehicle.  It looks like there's an option to finance at 0% with $1,500 cash back...upon further review, it's 0.0% APR.

2) Your issue is driving 17,500 miles/year for your commute.  That's if you do no other driving, which I'm guessing isn't the case.  Let's round up to an even 20k miles.  At 28 mpg (it's not all going to be 30 mpg freeway), that's 714 gallons of gasoline for a year.  At an average of $2.25/gallon, that's $1,600+ in fuel costs alone for a year.  If you had gotten a Prius at 50 mpg, your fuel costs would be $900.  So you're losing out on $700+ annually to invest (in addition to spending more on the car payments).  That gap will only increase if the price of fuel increases.  You could find a 6 or 7 year old Prius for ~$9k, maybe even less.  So you paid more than double to waste more fuel all for "newness."

3) Plenty of tall folks (myself included) have provided stories of fitting just fine in subcompact and compact cars so I don't buy that as an excuse - maybe it's laziness since you didn't want to go sit in one or two of them to find out for yourself?

4) That said, it's your life and your decision.  I'm not sure what you want from posting about it?  Basically everyone could post their rationale for their latest car purchase and some people will approve and some people will find things wrong with it.  If you're comfortable with it and can afford it, why are you asking the Mustachian community about it after the fact?

#2. It costs $3500 with install just to replace the Prius battery which lasts 8 years on average (from reading online) and you say to buy a 6-7 year old Prius. Then you have a 7-8 year old car (and all it's problems.) I'm also averaging 32.4 mpg through one week as well. Also cut off about 4000 miles and recalculate. I work 4 days per week and have more than 2 vacations days per year.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 04:51:15 PM by Bucksandreds »

DarkandStormy

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #65 on: July 25, 2017, 07:28:35 AM »
My Ford Fiesta was rattling when over 70mph, wouldn't always start on first try and had a blown AC. I drive 70 miles round trip daily. Yesterday I was offered $4000 off MSRP on a 2017 Hyundai Tucson SUV (I'm 6'3" and could barely fit in my car) with 25 miles on it. They are clearing out the 17s and I played 2 dealerships off each other. I paid $18,700 brand new and financed at 2.2% because I'd rather invest my money in the market and pay that rate. The 2015s with 35,000 miles are asking $15,000 plus on auto trader. It gets 30mpg highway (all I drive) and is 5 star safety rated (2 toddlers) short of moving by my work was I crazy to think that this was a decent decision? I could have spent maybe $5,000-$7,000 less to get a lightly used Honda Fit but i don't fit well in small cars and I absolutely have to have great reliability due to my job so couldn't get a clunker.

1) You didn't play anyonehttps://www.hyundaiusa.com/tucson/index.aspx $4,000 off is literally their summer sales event on this vehicle.  It looks like there's an option to finance at 0% with $1,500 cash back...upon further review, it's 0.0% APR.

2) Your issue is driving 17,500 miles/year for your commute.  That's if you do no other driving, which I'm guessing isn't the case.  Let's round up to an even 20k miles.  At 28 mpg (it's not all going to be 30 mpg freeway), that's 714 gallons of gasoline for a year.  At an average of $2.25/gallon, that's $1,600+ in fuel costs alone for a year.  If you had gotten a Prius at 50 mpg, your fuel costs would be $900.  So you're losing out on $700+ annually to invest (in addition to spending more on the car payments).  That gap will only increase if the price of fuel increases.  You could find a 6 or 7 year old Prius for ~$9k, maybe even less.  So you paid more than double to waste more fuel all for "newness."

3) Plenty of tall folks (myself included) have provided stories of fitting just fine in subcompact and compact cars so I don't buy that as an excuse - maybe it's laziness since you didn't want to go sit in one or two of them to find out for yourself?

4) That said, it's your life and your decision.  I'm not sure what you want from posting about it?  Basically everyone could post their rationale for their latest car purchase and some people will approve and some people will find things wrong with it.  If you're comfortable with it and can afford it, why are you asking the Mustachian community about it after the fact?

Wrong. Those advertised deals are only if you're a boost Mobile user and drive Uber. If you're going to attack me then make sure you know what you're talking about. Also, did you just make up the 0.0%. Hyundai offers 4.48% on the Tucson, assuming 700 or better credit and that is from the link you gave. Your laziness or lies are making you look silly.

From their own website:

Quote
$2,000 Retail Bonus Cash available on all 2017 Hyundai Tucson vehicles purchased from dealer stock between 7/6/17 and 7/31/17.
PLUS
Quote
$750 Sales Event Cash available on all 2017 Hyundai Tucson SE/Eco/Night/Sport (models: 84412F45, 84412A45, 84422F45, 84422A45, 84432F45, 84432A45, 84482F45, 84482A45) purchased from dealer stock between 7/6/17 and 7/31/17.
OR
Quote
$1,500 Sales Event Cash available on all 2017 Hyundai Tucson SE Plus/Limited (models: 84492F45, 84492A45, 84472F45, 84472A45) purchased from dealer stock between 7/6/17 and 7/31/17.
PLUS
Quote
$500 HMF Bonus Cash available on all 2017 Hyundai Tucson vehicles purchased from dealer stock between July 6, 2017 through July 31, 2017 and financed through Hyundai Motor Finance (HMF) Standard APR Program.

Summer Clearance Event totals - $2,000 + $1,500 + $500 = $4,000

You got what every single person buying this vehicle would get in this time frame off the MSRP.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/hyundai/tucson/prices  It looks like the max for July is either $4k cash back OR 0.0% financing.

Which is fine.  Read the last point of my previous post - if you can afford it and you're comfortable with the purchase, why are you making a whole thread about defending your choice?  It's done with.  You're not seeking advice/help.  I'm just generally confused as to why this became a topic.


DarkandStormy

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #66 on: July 25, 2017, 07:40:17 AM »
#2. It costs $3500 with install just to replace the Prius battery which lasts 8 years on average (from reading online) and you say to buy a 6-7 year old Prius. Then you have a 7-8 year old car (and all it's problems.) I'm also averaging 32.4 mpg through one week as well. Also cut off about 4000 miles and recalculate. I work 4 days per week and have more than 2 vacations days per year.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/toyota/prius/2010/reliability

Maybe you should have checked this thread out? https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/the-$3700-prius-experiment/

I had to guess on your mileage.  It depends on how much you drive it outside of just commuting to work, of course.  I mean, you're still looking at ~$1,200 in annual fuel costs at $2.25/gallon.  It'd be somewhere around $700 with a Prius.

But hey, like I've been trying to stress - it's your life and your purchase!  You don't need to defend your decisions to anyone (except maybe your SO/spouse).

Bucksandreds

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #67 on: July 25, 2017, 10:06:50 AM »
My Ford Fiesta was rattling when over 70mph, wouldn't always start on first try and had a blown AC. I drive 70 miles round trip daily. Yesterday I was offered $4000 off MSRP on a 2017 Hyundai Tucson SUV (I'm 6'3" and could barely fit in my car) with 25 miles on it. They are clearing out the 17s and I played 2 dealerships off each other. I paid $18,700 brand new and financed at 2.2% because I'd rather invest my money in the market and pay that rate. The 2015s with 35,000 miles are asking $15,000 plus on auto trader. It gets 30mpg highway (all I drive) and is 5 star safety rated (2 toddlers) short of moving by my work was I crazy to think that this was a decent decision? I could have spent maybe $5,000-$7,000 less to get a lightly used Honda Fit but i don't fit well in small cars and I absolutely have to have great reliability due to my job so couldn't get a clunker.

1) You didn't play anyonehttps://www.hyundaiusa.com/tucson/index.aspx $4,000 off is literally their summer sales event on this vehicle.  It looks like there's an option to finance at 0% with $1,500 cash back...upon further review, it's 0.0% APR.

2) Your issue is driving 17,500 miles/year for your commute.  That's if you do no other driving, which I'm guessing isn't the case.  Let's round up to an even 20k miles.  At 28 mpg (it's not all going to be 30 mpg freeway), that's 714 gallons of gasoline for a year.  At an average of $2.25/gallon, that's $1,600+ in fuel costs alone for a year.  If you had gotten a Prius at 50 mpg, your fuel costs would be $900.  So you're losing out on $700+ annually to invest (in addition to spending more on the car payments).  That gap will only increase if the price of fuel increases.  You could find a 6 or 7 year old Prius for ~$9k, maybe even less.  So you paid more than double to waste more fuel all for "newness."

3) Plenty of tall folks (myself included) have provided stories of fitting just fine in subcompact and compact cars so I don't buy that as an excuse - maybe it's laziness since you didn't want to go sit in one or two of them to find out for yourself?

4) That said, it's your life and your decision.  I'm not sure what you want from posting about it?  Basically everyone could post their rationale for their latest car purchase and some people will approve and some people will find things wrong with it.  If you're comfortable with it and can afford it, why are you asking the Mustachian community about it after the fact?

Wrong. Those advertised deals are only if you're a boost Mobile user and drive Uber. If you're going to attack me then make sure you know what you're talking about. Also, did you just make up the 0.0%. Hyundai offers 4.48% on the Tucson, assuming 700 or better credit and that is from the link you gave. Your laziness or lies are making you look silly.

From their own website:

Quote
$2,000 Retail Bonus Cash available on all 2017 Hyundai Tucson vehicles purchased from dealer stock between 7/6/17 and 7/31/17.
PLUS
Quote
$750 Sales Event Cash available on all 2017 Hyundai Tucson SE/Eco/Night/Sport (models: 84412F45, 84412A45, 84422F45, 84422A45, 84432F45, 84432A45, 84482F45, 84482A45) purchased from dealer stock between 7/6/17 and 7/31/17.
OR
Quote
$1,500 Sales Event Cash available on all 2017 Hyundai Tucson SE Plus/Limited (models: 84492F45, 84492A45, 84472F45, 84472A45) purchased from dealer stock between 7/6/17 and 7/31/17.
PLUS
Quote
$500 HMF Bonus Cash available on all 2017 Hyundai Tucson vehicles purchased from dealer stock between July 6, 2017 through July 31, 2017 and financed through Hyundai Motor Finance (HMF) Standard APR Program.

Summer Clearance Event totals - $2,000 + $1,500 + $500 = $4,000

You got what every single person buying this vehicle would get in this time frame off the MSRP.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/hyundai/tucson/prices  It looks like the max for July is either $4k cash back OR 0.0% financing.

Which is fine.  Read the last point of my previous post - if you can afford it and you're comfortable with the purchase, why are you making a whole thread about defending your choice?  It's done with.  You're not seeking advice/help.  I'm just generally confused as to why this became a topic.

You forgot to put in the details about seeing dealer for details of $2,000 bonus cash. I spoke with several dealers. $1,000 of that is their affiliate discount for Uber drivers. The other $1000 is a mobility discount for aftermarket mobility additions or $500 each for military and Boostup Boost mobile offer. That's why it says UP TO $4000. Just like your misrepresenting the $4000 off and 0% interest (Which you admitted to) you are misrepresenting this and playing it off like you're smart.

Clean Shaven

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #68 on: July 25, 2017, 12:16:06 PM »
You forgot to put in the details about seeing dealer for details of $2,000 bonus cash. I spoke with several dealers. $1,000 of that is their affiliate discount for Uber drivers. The other $1000 is a mobility discount for aftermarket mobility additions or $500 each for military and Boostup Boost mobile offer. That's why it says UP TO $4000. Just like your misrepresenting the $4000 off and 0% interest (Which you admitted to) you are misrepresenting this and playing it off like you're smart.

Since this thread has turned into "who can read the fine print and/or get a better deal" -- 

In your first post, you reference that you searched Autotrader:

They are clearing out the 17s and I played 2 dealerships off each other. I paid $18,700 brand new and financed at 2.2% because I'd rather invest my money in the market and pay that rate. The 2015s with 35,000 miles are asking $15,000 plus on auto trader.

On Autotrader, there are many 2WD 2017 Hyundai Tucsons available for around $15.5K-16K, brand spanking new.  Why didn't you buy one of those, instead of the $18.7K you spent?

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/New+Cars/2017/Hyundai/Tucson/Sacramento+CA-94203?zip=94203&listingTypes=new&startYear=2017&numRecords=25&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&firstRecord=0&endYear=2017&modelCodeList=TUCSON&makeCodeList=HYUND&searchRadius=0

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #69 on: July 25, 2017, 12:25:19 PM »
I'm going to assume that you are some kind of delivery driver, because otherwise I can't think of any reason why you would choose to drive 70 miles round-trip for work. In that case, an SUV -- even a car-based one like a Hyundai Tucson -- is not the best choice. There are plenty of hatchbacks and wagons that get better fuel economy and are just as safe.

SUVs are kind of useless vehicles. They can't really haul stuff like a truck. They get relatively poor fuel economy. They cost a lot to maintain. Americans were duped into buying them starting in the 1990s because the commercials say that if you drive one it means you are a Cool Mom. Not like those other Moms with minivans. No, you are a rugged individualist.

That's my take, anyway.

DarkandStormy

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #70 on: July 25, 2017, 12:31:10 PM »

You forgot to put in the details about seeing dealer for details of $2,000 bonus cash. I spoke with several dealers. $1,000 of that is their affiliate discount for Uber drivers. The other $1000 is a mobility discount for aftermarket mobility additions or $500 each for military and Boostup Boost mobile offer. That's why it says UP TO $4000. Just like your misrepresenting the $4000 off and 0% interest (Which you admitted to) you are misrepresenting this and playing it off like you're smart.

This is getting hilarious to me.

I just checked one of the local Hyundai dealers here, website only, and saw plenty of offers.

There are no fewer than eight various offers on this vehicle.  I assume college grad and military are off the table.  And you mentioned Boost Mobile being a $500 match. 

So you financed with them to get $500 cash back to finance @ 2.2% interest rate instead of taking 0.0% interest rate over 5 years.  They were already throwing in $2k regardless.  I'm seeing another $750 on top of that.  So you squeezed a whopping $750 extra out of them?

Anyway, you still haven't answered what the point of this entire thread is.  Without knowing your FIRE goals or other goals (financial, environmental, etc.) no one but you can really answer "how mustachian" your purchase was.

jlcnuke

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #71 on: July 25, 2017, 12:44:55 PM »
How "unmustachian" were you? Very. You didn't trade in your car for a bicycle and move your family to within biking distance of your work or get a new job just so you could save on your commute... or buy a crappy Prius to save a few hundred bucks on gas each year and hoping that it doesn't cost you that much extra on your electric bill..

Bucksandreds

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #72 on: July 25, 2017, 01:47:10 PM »
You forgot to put in the details about seeing dealer for details of $2,000 bonus cash. I spoke with several dealers. $1,000 of that is their affiliate discount for Uber drivers. The other $1000 is a mobility discount for aftermarket mobility additions or $500 each for military and Boostup Boost mobile offer. That's why it says UP TO $4000. Just like your misrepresenting the $4000 off and 0% interest (Which you admitted to) you are misrepresenting this and playing it off like you're smart.

Since this thread has turned into "who can read the fine print and/or get a better deal" -- 

In your first post, you reference that you searched Autotrader:

They are clearing out the 17s and I played 2 dealerships off each other. I paid $18,700 brand new and financed at 2.2% because I'd rather invest my money in the market and pay that rate. The 2015s with 35,000 miles are asking $15,000 plus on auto trader.

On Autotrader, there are many 2WD 2017 Hyundai Tucsons available for around $15.5K-16K, brand spanking new.  Why didn't you buy one of those, instead of the $18.7K you spent?

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/New+Cars/2017/Hyundai/Tucson/Sacramento+CA-94203?zip=94203&listingTypes=new&startYear=2017&numRecords=25&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&firstRecord=0&endYear=2017&modelCodeList=TUCSON&makeCodeList=HYUND&searchRadius=0


That's from 2 dealers within 500 miles of me and the pricing details spell out that those discounts are for 'select customers' meaning every single qualifier. This means you finance with them for 4.48-7percent. You are in the military and recently graduated college. You also drive Uber and use boost mobile and will be adding $1000 or more (with your own money) of mobility boosting tech because you are disabled. Those are shady offers just to get you to contact them.

Bucksandreds

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #73 on: July 25, 2017, 01:50:35 PM »

You forgot to put in the details about seeing dealer for details of $2,000 bonus cash. I spoke with several dealers. $1,000 of that is their affiliate discount for Uber drivers. The other $1000 is a mobility discount for aftermarket mobility additions or $500 each for military and Boostup Boost mobile offer. That's why it says UP TO $4000. Just like your misrepresenting the $4000 off and 0% interest (Which you admitted to) you are misrepresenting this and playing it off like you're smart.

This is getting hilarious to me.

I just checked one of the local Hyundai dealers here, website only, and saw plenty of offers.

There are no fewer than eight various offers on this vehicle.  I assume college grad and military are off the table.  And you mentioned Boost Mobile being a $500 match. 

So you financed with them to get $500 cash back to finance @ 2.2% interest rate instead of taking 0.0% interest rate over 5 years.  They were already throwing in $2k regardless.  I'm seeing another $750 on top of that.  So you squeezed a whopping $750 extra out of them?

Anyway, you still haven't answered what the point of this entire thread is.  Without knowing your FIRE goals or other goals (financial, environmental, etc.) no one but you can really answer "how mustachian" your purchase was.


Talked $1250 off of them. The $500 financing discount is only for financing with Hyundai at minimum 4.48% as it says specifically on their website. I got 2.2% from a credit union.  Could have got $300 more off if I drove 300-400 miles but I'm busy and have kids. Judge my decision making for wanting an SUV all you want. To talk like I was played when you know Jack about the true offers is arrogant garbage.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 01:53:29 PM by Bucksandreds »

GenXbiker

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #74 on: July 25, 2017, 02:49:53 PM »
When you hear about how much money you're going to save and how much cash back/rebate you might be qualified for, hold on to your wallet.

Bucksandreds

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #75 on: July 25, 2017, 03:12:53 PM »
Moderator. Please close this thread. It's reached its end. It was meant to be a discussion about our communities need to rid itself of our preset purchase decisions for every situation and devolved into ignorant posts about the price that should have been paid for the car.

daverobev

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Re: How Un Mustachian was I?
« Reply #76 on: July 26, 2017, 01:16:14 PM »
Moderator. Please close this thread. It's reached its end. It was meant to be a discussion about our communities need to rid itself of our preset purchase decisions for every situation and devolved into ignorant posts about the price that should have been paid for the car.

"I started a thread but didn't like the replies I got".

Oh Lordy.