Author Topic: What happens after retirement?  (Read 24652 times)

steveo

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2013, 03:33:39 PM »
But if you HAD to show up at the beach at 8 am every day, and put in your 8 hours regardless of surf conditions, don't you think THAT would get pretty old?

That would get old quickly. I used to surf but have basically given up due to work, family and other hobbies. I used to hate though going surfing when it was freezing cold.

The problem here is that you are taking all the non-good things about work, like the 9-5ness, and thinking that that's all there is to work, so you're not going to do it any more.  Why not instead use your increasing FI as leverage to improve working conditions, keeping the enjoyable parts (including getting paid).  As for instance I work whatever hours I want, so that if I want to go for a hike or bike ride this afternoon, I can.  And if it's too hot (which the forecast is predicting), I can stay here in the cool house and work, or read a book, or whatever.

I already have it good at my work and figure the good times will have to end. I work from home at least one day per week. I can't see myself getting anymore freedom in my job compared to what I get now. I think I am pushing it way too far already. I work in IT on projects - sometimes as a project manager and sometimes as a developer however the project management work is now starting to take up most of my time. I can't though work whenever I want to or stay at home whenever I want to although it is much closer to that ideal than probably 99.9% of people out there who are working in a full-time job.

The thing is I would still rather do whatever I want within reason each and every day. You are right though in that I might end up going back to work or working less when I reach FI. I would prefer though to have the choice of working full-time, working less or just retiring early (to me the best case here would be at 50).

MrsPete

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2013, 11:41:12 AM »
I agree that if you take a hobby you love and are forced to do it 8 hours a day, it'll become a chore.  At one point I considered leaving my job to become a baker.  If I do say so myself, i am the best baker I know, and I've done a bit of catering here and there . . . But I realized that if I were to take that path,  it would no longer be a small, fun part of my life.  It would take on the stresses of a real job.  Also I am singularly ill-suited for the business end of baking-as-job, and I know that I have grossly underpriced most of the catering jobs I've done.  I've produced some extremely happy clients though!
I prefer lots of things to going to work. I love going to the gym and doing jiu-jitsu. I love reading a book. When I see your avatar and you look like you are surfing in Hawaii I'm bloody jealous. I'd rather be surfing than turning up to work each day.

But if you HAD to show up at the beach at 8 am every day, and put in your 8 hours regardless of surf conditions, don't you think THAT would get pretty old?

The problem here is that you are taking all the non-good things about work, like the 9-5ness, and thinking that that's all there is to work, so you're not going to do it any more.  Why not instead use your increasing FI as leverage to improve working conditions, keeping the enjoyable parts (including getting paid).  As for instance I work whatever hours I want, so that if I want to go for a hike or bike ride this afternoon, I can.  And if it's too hot (which the forecast is predicting), I can stay here in the cool house and work, or read a book, or whatever.

velocistar237

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2013, 12:33:14 PM »
But if you HAD to show up at the beach at 8 am every day, and put in your 8 hours regardless of surf conditions, don't you think THAT would get pretty old?

When you get tired of surfing, you can stop for as long as you want. When you get tired of your job, you suck it up and keep doing your job. Or you quit and surf.

Jamesqf

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2013, 01:14:02 PM »
When you get tired of surfing, you can stop for as long as you want. When you get tired of your job, you suck it up and keep doing your job. Or you quit and surf.

There you go!  You see that the problem isn't the job per se, it's the conditions under which you have to do the job.  If you applied the same conditions to the recreational activity you do in "retirement", it would become almost as disagreable.  So what you're looking for is not actually retirement, it's flexibility.  And if you can find a way to apply that flexibility to a job, which you might enjoy if it weren't 8-5 every day, and which is remunerative...  Well, don't you then have the best of both worlds?

velocistar237

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2013, 01:22:54 PM »
And if you can find a way to apply that flexibility to a job, which you might enjoy if it weren't 8-5 every day, and which is remunerative...  Well, don't you then have the best of both worlds?

Yes. If you could find a job that you liked, that you could start and stop at will, then it would be the best of both worlds. MMM's contracting and MMMM's real estate work both fit this, as would short-term contract jobs in general, as long as your opportunities didn't dry up between jobs.

Freeyourchains2

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2013, 02:11:27 PM »
Instead of living in deprivation for 10-15 years slaving at job you hate so you can have freedom early, I recommend finding a job you love. This is true freedom. Then you get paid to do what you love and there is no reason to suffer through your best years - you can relax and enjoy doing what you love in comfort.

Usually CEO's don't hand out jobs people love, because most things people love to do don't produce any income. So you may have to create a business you love that also creates income, so you don't have to obey orders. But then that is hard to sustain because you need to sell what consumers need/want, and this has to align with what is fun to do for you.

Ozstache

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2013, 04:07:59 PM »
When you get tired of surfing, you can stop for as long as you want. When you get tired of your job, you suck it up and keep doing your job. Or you quit and surf.

There you go!  You see that the problem isn't the job per se, it's the conditions under which you have to do the job.  If you applied the same conditions to the recreational activity you do in "retirement", it would become almost as disagreable.  So what you're looking for is not actually retirement, it's flexibility.  And if you can find a way to apply that flexibility to a job, which you might enjoy if it weren't 8-5 every day, and which is remunerative...  Well, don't you then have the best of both worlds?
+1. Fortunately, I will have this option when I ER soon through military reserve work whereby I get to choose what, when and how often I work, if at all.

SnackDog

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2013, 04:16:04 PM »
What is it about the lack of "flexibility" and need to "obey orders" that people focus on when citing the desire to retire?? I doubt most of you actually get that many unreasonable orders or have tried asking for flexibility. Most modern employers are very flexible; most employees are afraid to ask.

Compare yourself to Steve Jobs, for example. Did he hate his job and dream of retirement? Do you think he had a lot of freedom?

dragoncar

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2013, 07:28:35 PM »
You see that the problem isn't the job per se, it's the conditions under which you have to do the job.

Right, also known as "the job"

brewer12345

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2013, 07:45:25 PM »
What is it about the lack of "flexibility" and need to "obey orders" that people focus on when citing the desire to retire?? I doubt most of you actually get that many unreasonable orders or have tried asking for flexibility. Most modern employers are very flexible; most employees are afraid to ask.

Compare yourself to Steve Jobs, for example. Did he hate his job and dream of retirement? Do you think he had a lot of freedom?

I guess you ride the purple unicorn to work every day.  Does the elf give you a blowjob on the way, too?

I have worked for a humongous partnership, a large public company, a small public company, a midsized public company, a small partnership, a smallish family-owned company, and a large quasi-gubmint bureaucracy.  Every single one has babbled about work-life balance to some extent.  Every single one has had me running around like a jackass.  There may be some nicely flexible workplaces out there that do not ruin your life, but I have not found one yet.  Since I damn well hope I am on my last full time job, I never will.

footenote

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #60 on: July 23, 2013, 08:15:07 PM »
What is it about the lack of "flexibility" and need to "obey orders" that people focus on when citing the desire to retire?? I doubt most of you actually get that many unreasonable orders or have tried asking for flexibility. Most modern employers are very flexible; most employees are afraid to ask.

Compare yourself to Steve Jobs, for example. Did he hate his job and dream of retirement? Do you think he had a lot of freedom?

I guess you ride the purple unicorn to work every day.  Does the elf give you a blowjob on the way, too?

I have worked for a humongous partnership, a large public company, a small public company, a midsized public company, a small partnership, a smallish family-owned company, and a large quasi-gubmint bureaucracy.  Every single one has babbled about work-life balance to some extent.  Every single one has had me running around like a jackass.  There may be some nicely flexible workplaces out there that do not ruin your life, but I have not found one yet.  Since I damn well hope I am on my last full time job, I never will.
+1

arebelspy

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2013, 08:58:47 AM »
What is it about the lack of "flexibility" and need to "obey orders" that people focus on when citing the desire to retire?? I doubt most of you actually get that many unreasonable orders or have tried asking for flexibility. Most modern employers are very flexible; most employees are afraid to ask.

Compare yourself to Steve Jobs, for example. Did he hate his job and dream of retirement? Do you think he had a lot of freedom?

Compare yourself to a billionaire who could do anything he wanted, and chose to do that?

Okay, I'd posit almost no one is like that.  0.01% of the people in the richest country ever in the history of the world?

And he sure as hell had whatever flexibility he wanted and no orders to obey.

What most of us here want is that freedom to do anything we want.  That may entail working at our current jobs, or it may entail working at another job, or no job at all.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

MrsPete

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #62 on: July 24, 2013, 09:38:22 AM »
Quote from my Mamaw:  If it were fun, they wouldn't have to pay you to do it. 

Instead of living in deprivation for 10-15 years slaving at job you hate so you can have freedom early, I recommend finding a job you love. This is true freedom. Then you get paid to do what you love and there is no reason to suffer through your best years - you can relax and enjoy doing what you love in comfort.

Usually CEO's don't hand out jobs people love, because most things people love to do don't produce any income. So you may have to create a business you love that also creates income, so you don't have to obey orders. But then that is hard to sustain because you need to sell what consumers need/want, and this has to align with what is fun to do for you.

Jamesqf

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2013, 12:12:40 PM »
Quote from my Mamaw:  If it were fun, they wouldn't have to pay you to do it.

I dunno.  For years, people have been paying me a good bit of money to do software, which I think is pretty fun.  Conversely, I find a good bit of fun in gardening, carpentry, and messing around with cars & electronic stuff, all of which some people get paid money to do.  Heck, some people even get paid to walk dogs, which I do for free 'most every day.

Nords

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #64 on: July 28, 2013, 08:27:15 PM »
My jobs have all entailed substantial drudgery, stress, and general assfuckery. 
That made me laugh out loud. I vote it for Quote of the Day.
When Brewer retires and publishes his celebrity tell-all memoirs, I'm flying to his town to camp out in the line that forms a week ahead of his book signing party...

But if you HAD to show up at the beach at 8 am every day, and put in your 8 hours regardless of surf conditions, don't you think THAT would get pretty old?
That would get old quickly. I used to surf but have basically given up due to work, family and other hobbies. I used to hate though going surfing when it was freezing cold.
My daughter's been home from college for 10 weeks (with four weeks on a Pearl Harbor ship for Navy training) and she's been bringing home stray midshipmen almost every weekend since mid-May.  We've done far more surfing than usual (4-5 times per week) for far longer than usual (up to 3-4 hours) and I've given more surf lessons this summer than in the last five years combined.  I've probably gone through a half-gallon of sunscreen, too.

I enjoy teaching people how to surf, but if it was a paid job then it would suck.  My students have nothing at stake in the lesson, so they relax and enjoy themselves without worrying about extracting maximum value from their payment.  Even though I've expended a lot more calories this summer giving a lot more lessons, I still enjoy teaching them. 

I suppose the business version of this would be "Satisfaction guaranteed or your money cheerfully refunded!"  But I'd still be dealing with fees, taxes, liability insurance, bookkeeping, and a bunch of other overhead that would inevitably suck out the fun.  I'd get all hypercompetitive about revenue and profit margins, too, and I'd be trying to squeeze out just a little more performance from every lesson.

I've been surfing for over 11 years, and boredom has not shown up yet.  Every wave is different.  Every one could be surfed differently/better.  Every board performs differently, and every day the weather is different.  I still need to try kite surfing, windsurfing, and stand-up paddleboarding.  If all else fails, there's plenty of other surfer eye candy on the waves and plenty of people to talk story with. 

In the last five years, though, I've lost my tolerance for "cold" water (below 74 degrees).  I've succumbed to wearing a 2mm long-sleeve high-neck neoprene jacket from October-May.  Whenever I'm really sniveling feeling sorry for myself, though, I can always watch videos of the hardy souls in the Great Lakes Surfing Club...

sol

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #65 on: July 28, 2013, 09:10:41 PM »
Quote from my Mamaw:  If it were fun, they wouldn't have to pay you to do it. 

That lovable dream job isn't impossible to find. 

I climb mountains for fun.  Last week, my employer paid me to climb mountains.

Sometimes they also pay me to attend boring meetings and play with spreadsheets, but one of the great advantages of having a huge and growing 'stache is that every day I feel less and less inclined to get too worked up about the parts that suck, because I don't feel like I'm obligated or stuck with them and I can still look forward to the parts that I love.

As soon as I stop enjoying the cool parts more than I dislike the shitty parts, I'm outs.  I'm not there yet.

steveo

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #66 on: July 28, 2013, 09:59:25 PM »
I've been surfing for over 11 years, and boredom has not shown up yet.  Every wave is different.  Every one could be surfed differently/better.  Every board performs differently, and every day the weather is different.  I still need to try kite surfing, windsurfing, and stand-up paddleboarding.  If all else fails, there's plenty of other surfer eye candy on the waves and plenty of people to talk story with. 

In the last five years, though, I've lost my tolerance for "cold" water (below 74 degrees).  I've succumbed to wearing a 2mm long-sleeve high-neck neoprene jacket from October-May.  Whenever I'm really sniveling feeling sorry for myself, though, I can always watch videos of the hardy souls in the Great Lakes Surfing Club...

If I wasn't working and I could live elsewhere I would take up surfing (I live say 1 hour travel time to the beach each way and I just couldn't justify surfing regularly with this travel time). I still intend to surf in my retirement but I will probably be selective about it - for instance live in Bali or Hawaii or the North Coast of Australia for a couple of months a year and surf then.

MrsPete

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Re: What happens after retirement?
« Reply #67 on: July 29, 2013, 06:11:27 PM »
I enjoy teaching people how to surf, but if it was a paid job then it would suck.  My students have nothing at stake in the lesson, so they relax and enjoy themselves without worrying about extracting maximum value from their payment.  Even though I've expended a lot more calories this summer giving a lot more lessons, I still enjoy teaching them. 
Yeah, if this were your job, you'd have to concern yourself with the business end of the thing:  You'd have to advertise, carry insurance, schedule with strangers and take payments.  You wouldn't be free to say, "Nah, I don't feel like doing it on Tuesday."  The thing you enjoy most would become a job.