What do you think about multi-level marketing?

[swampwiz]

I was reading this, and it got me interested:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/04/multilevel-marketing-yoga-pants-facebook/558296

[RookieStache]

A friend of mine is trying very hard to get me into Prime America. MLM just isn't worth straining friendships over imo, and that's usually how the most successful one's begin to build their tree.

[mathlete]

It’s terrible at every level.

[lizzzi]

Just find it irritating. Don't want to be badgered to go to Tupperware parties, Pampered Chef, LulaRoe, and all the rest of it. It's like a pyramid scheme, and the pseudo-social aspect is annoying--especially when the manipulation is coming from people you work with or are neighbors with. I have a couple of pre-prepared, ironclad excuses, and basically "just say no." I don't care whether they like it or not.

[I'm a red panda]

An 18 page answer to your question.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/no-i-won't-buy-into-your-mlm/

[slappy]

An 18 page answer to your question.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/no-i-won't-buy-into-your-mlm/

Yes! I was just about to search for that thread!

[Penn42]

My understanding of many of these MLM programs are that the "consultants" have to buy batches of the product they will be selling in order to sell it.  Only problem is most of the time they're unable to sell enough to make their money back. So they convince other people to become consultants and then make a commission off the batch bought by the tier below them.  But that tier are also not able to sell enough to profit either.  And on and on... 

Last I checked MLM's are pretty widely considered predatory. 

[Pigeon]

Very few people make any money at it.  I've cut people off who've gotten involved in it.  No, I don't want to go to your "parties" to buy your overpriced crap.

[OtherJen]

I’m very sick of hearing about all of it from at least half the women of my acquaintance who have young children. Fortunately they all seem to eventually recognize the scam and give up within a year or two.

[PJS]

MLM is truly one of the worst things in the world. It's all pressure/guilt-based sales to friends and family who really have no interest in what you're selling. I've deleted so many Facebook friends because of the amount of MLM posts.

[sparkytheop]

Not a fan.  I've participated in the linked thread.  The subject fascinates me though.  I just don't get it.

[Davnasty]

It’s terrible at every level.

Hah

[FIRE Artist]

A colleague of mine is making a killing at his MLM consultant side gig.  Seriously.  It isn't hard to get people who have drunk the kool aid to drink even more it seems. 

[patchyfacialhair]

So, I almost went to a Primerica "interview." I was in college, looking at jobs/internships. Start talking to this guy about life insurance sales...he says let's set up an interview...

Googled Primerica and I wasn't even sure if it was a real company anymore. Everything seemed fishy and not-transparent. Canceled the "interview" and never looked back.

Since then, I've made myself aware of all the popular MLM companies. If anyone mentions one or starts to pitch me to one, I can easily interrupt them and say, "sorry, that's a pyramid scheme and I already have gainful employment" or "sorry, that's a pyramid scheme and I'd rather go to a regular store to buy what you're selling." Some folks drop it right there, some fight me on it, but believe it or not, most folks concede that they make little to no money doing what they're doing, but they make enough to enjoy the products for free or cheap. Free/cheap stuff isn't worth trying to constantly sell stuff to family and friends.

[elaine amj]

I think it works for really good salespeople who are also business-minded.

That said, I don't care for it. Right now essential oils are the rage in my circle and two friends have already talked to me. Then my dear 18 year old niece started selling purses. I reluctantly let her add me to her FB group. But got kinda busy so after looking at a few, I stopped looking. Plus I only buy purses from thrift stores. So I was wrecking my head thinking of who to buy gifts for to "support" her. I hate saying no so I always feel uncomfortable by all the asks.

My mother is huge into MLMs. Loves loves loves them. Has sold multiple different brands over the years. Still believes firmly in every one of them. Currently sells Melaleuca. She is a salesperson at heart though so typically does very well. I have a huge personal objection to MLM structures though and so far have resisted taking her various vitamins and supplements. But they do noticeably work for her (who knows if there are cheaper versions) so I dish out $100/mo to pay for her monthly supply as my gift to her (makes her happy).

Sent from my STH100-1 using Tapatalk

[HPstache]

If you've heard about the product you'd be selling... it's too late.  Areas get too saturated with "consultants".

[kanga1622]

I actually like the LulaRoe clothing but don’t like their prices. So I buy second hand or from consultants who are selling at cost as they quit being a consultant. I find a lot of people that buy whatever they like and don’t even cut the tags off before deciding they have too many. I’ll take half price clothes. :)

[Channel-Z]

My sister-in-law tried to sell Shakeology, but quit. A friend of mine is pressuring everyone she knows to join her in Advocare. She's the kind of person who can sweet-talk anyone into anything, so she could succeed. But most everyone I know who has tried one MLM business or another has quit within a few months.

When I was in college, a friend of mine persuaded me to interview for what he called a sales job, selling water filters. I sat in the lobby and watched a dead fish in the aquarium. The other fish were nibbling at it. I considered it a bad sign. But I went through the interview and watched the company's explanatory VHS tape anyway. I confirmed the company was indeed a pyramid scheme, and I declined the job.

[Gone Fishing]

A good friend of ours got sucked into some sort of wine program, and thus we found ourselves at a home based wine "tasting" (sales pitch).  Problem was, the wine tasted like crap.  The psychology of the whole thing was amazing though.  I sat and watched as several highly educated, intelligent women, under the mild influence of some very crappy tasting alcohol, purchased large volumes of ridiculously overpriced wine. 

Given that most of the MLM products are aimed at women, it makes me wonder if there is some biological predisposition that makes them more suceptable to this form of marketing.


[MOD NOTE:  C'mon, man.  Let's not do that.  Looking for biological reasons for why targeted marketing works?]

Once a buddy and I were musing about what we would sell to guys in a similar situation.  The best we could come up with was AR-15 accessories.  Maybe serve a few micro brews to grease the skids.  We all know guns and booze don't mix, so you'd just have to have a few dummy ARs as the the muzzle sweeps would out of control in a living room.

Maybe someone will make a bajillion dollars off of our idea!

[Bracken_Joy]

https://youtu.be/s6MwGeOm8iI

Annoying AND exploitative. Across the board awful.

[marty998]

The TV show My Family did an episode on an MLM scheme where Susan (Madam Hooch <3 ) was sucked into it.

They even called it "Pyrimus" :D

[profnot]

I personally know 3 women who each earn 6 figures from their MLMs.  All cosmetic companies with excellent quality products.

All 3 live in HCOL areas where high prices and people spending lots of $ on personal items are not unusual.  This is not Avon or Mary Kay stuff.  I think that makes a big difference.

I think if the product is top quality, decently priced, right for your demographic, and you believe in it then the MLM might be good for you.

[patchyfacialhair]

I personally know 3 women who each earn 6 figures from their MLMs.  All cosmetic companies with excellent quality products.

All 3 live in HCOL areas where high prices and people spending lots of $ on personal items are not unusual.  This is not Avon or Mary Kay stuff.  I think that makes a big difference.

I think if the product is top quality, decently priced, right for your demographic, and you believe in it then the MLM might be good for you.

How much of that income is from her own sales, and how much is from her downline? I'd venture to bet it's from her downline, meaning she got into the company super early, meaning it's no different from any other MLM where 99.XX% of people make little to nothing.

[I'm a red panda]

A good friend of ours got sucked into some sort of wine program, and thus we found ourselves at a home based wine "tasting" (sales pitch).  Problem was, the wine tasted like crap.  The psychology of the whole thing was amazing though.  I sat and watched as several highly educated, intelligent women, under the mild influence of some very crappy tasting alcohol, purchased large volumes of ridiculously overpriced wine. 

Given that most of the MLM products are aimed at women, it makes me wonder if there is some biological predisposition that makes them more suceptable to this form of marketing.

Once a buddy and I were musing about what we would sell to guys in a similar situation.  The best we could come up with was AR-15 accessories.  Maybe serve a few micro brews to grease the skids.  We all know guns and booze don't mix, so you'd just have to have a few dummy ARs as the the muzzle sweeps would out of control in a living room.

Maybe someone will make a bajillion dollars off of our idea!

A friend of ours was one of the first people in our area who got into some wine MLM.  He is making bank on it. Paid for a half-million dollar house in cash, after quitting his job as a teacher. (His "downline" is nearly every distributor in the midwest since he got in so early.)

We hosted a party for him once. Because it is alcohol, you have to buy the wine served at the party; he can't just serve samples.  The price for the hosting bottles was decent (though it added up to buy all the suggested accompaniments), so we just considered it a regular party.   They were popular in our neighborhood for awhile; but $20 for a $7 wine is crazy.  He kept talking about affordable weekday wines, and holding out $30 options.  Even in our wealthy neighborhood, that didn't last for long.

[DS]

Given that most of the MLM products are aimed at women, it makes me wonder if there is some biological predisposition that makes them more suceptable to this form of marketing.

*Checks what year it is*

[Laserjet3051]

you really have to ask? nothing good can come from a MLM "scheme."

[Proud Foot]

I think if the product is top quality, decently priced, right for your demographic, and you believe in it then the MLM might be good for you.

I don't think the issue most people have with MLM's is the product. In my opinion the pricing isn't too bad on most of them as the ones I have looked at seem to me as only mildly overpriced. The biggest issue is with the structuring and predatory nature of the MLM.  My wife was good friends with another lady who started doing one of the MLM's. Now the lady is too focused on getting her "mandatory" 3-5 daily posts on social media that she does not/takes a really long time to respond to text messages and it definitely has hurt their friendship.

[ketchup]

They are a scourge on society.

[englishteacheralex]

Actually, there IS a biological reason it's mostly women doing MLMs: women have children. This sometimes results in women staying home with those children. Women start wishing there was some way of bringing in extra income that would allow them to work without having to pay for childcare.

Voila. Enter MLM schemes. Almost every person I know who got sucked into the too good to be true MLM siren song is a SAHM who wants to hustle and earn money for the household. Sadly, I've never heard of it working out.

The smart ones I know change gears fast to some kind of cottage industry sort of thing--baking for parties or photography or tutoring or whatever. The sad ones just cycle through every MLM flavor of the month and burn their social bridges.

[mm1970]

A good friend of ours got sucked into some sort of wine program, and thus we found ourselves at a home based wine "tasting" (sales pitch).  Problem was, the wine tasted like crap.  The psychology of the whole thing was amazing though.  I sat and watched as several highly educated, intelligent women, under the mild influence of some very crappy tasting alcohol, purchased large volumes of ridiculously overpriced wine. 

Given that most of the MLM products are aimed at women, it makes me wonder if there is some biological predisposition that makes them more suceptable to this form of marketing.

Once a buddy and I were musing about what we would sell to guys in a similar situation.  The best we could come up with was AR-15 accessories.  Maybe serve a few micro brews to grease the skids.  We all know guns and booze don't mix, so you'd just have to have a few dummy ARs as the the muzzle sweeps would out of control in a living room.

Maybe someone will make a bajillion dollars off of our idea!

A friend of ours was one of the first people in our area who got into some wine MLM.  He is making bank on it. Paid for a half-million dollar house in cash, after quitting his job as a teacher. (His "downline" is nearly every distributor in the midwest since he got in so early.)

We hosted a party for him once. Because it is alcohol, you have to buy the wine served at the party; he can't just serve samples.  The price for the hosting bottles was decent (though it added up to buy all the suggested accompaniments), so we just considered it a regular party.   They were popular in our neighborhood for awhile; but $20 for a $7 wine is crazy.  He kept talking about affordable weekday wines, and holding out $30 options.  Even in our wealthy neighborhood, that didn't last for long.

This is funny. I have a local acquaintance who is a small business owner but also "hustles" to make extra cash.  Part time jobs and Beachbody Coach.  Well, she was a Beachbody coach and then they changed their policy so that you can't be in another MLM-type business.

Thing is, she had just started in the wine MLM thing.  I just couldn't believe it.  I saw several posts about it...these great wines from New Zealand, Australia, etc.

We live in freaking wine country.  There are more than a dozen wineries downtown and probably well over a hundred in the valley.  Why on earth would I join a wine club where they ship you wine from elsewhere???

Yeah, she's back to being a BB coach and last I checked she became a member of my favorite downtown winery (that I'm also a member of).

[LiveLean]

I've chimed in on previous threads. But here's the summary:

Mona Vie?
If you find you're getting an energy boost from $60 bottles of fruit juice, your diet is probably so lousy there's a lot you could be doing for less money.

Rodan & Fields?
I'm a dude, but quality skincare can be had for a far cheaper price, so says women in the know.

LuLaRoe?
They're freakin' yoga pants. My wife's butt looks good in anything, but I've found how much I like her yoga pants tends to be inversely proportionate to how much she spent on them.

Why can't people have parties anymore that don't involve an MLM shakedown?

[Bracken_Joy]

Why can't people have parties anymore that don't involve an MLM shakedown?

THIS. I'm already an introvert, but a couple experiences being invited to dinner parties by neighbors and having them be MLM shakedowns has really slowed my attempts to build relationships here. It makes it really hard to integrate into a new place if you're constantly wondering if someone is just buttering you up for a pitch. It's made me even more of a cynic =(

[MaaS]

It can be profitable if you're one of the first people in.  But, just understand, the money maker isn't supplements or yoga pants. It's your ability to sell your friends and family on the program. I'd never do it for ethical concerns, but each to their own.

[mathlete]

How do you guys feel about parents bringing in their kid's fundraising stuff into work? It's not MLM, but it is marketing that relies on social imposition in order to generate sales.

I don't find it annoying like MLM, because it's pretty easy to say no. But I do find it odd. Everyone I work with makes enough money to be able to afford to send their kids on boy scout retreats or whatever. So why do they cut popcorn/candy manufactures in on it so much?

[I'm a red panda]

I don't buy from people at work. But I don't really care about crap in the breakroom advertising it.  Talk about over priced junk. I LOVE the schools that just cut the BS and says "in exchange for not selling stuff, please donate $25 and ask your friends to also."  I donate to my nieces and nephews schools that way.  Or host 5ks. I run all of them for the schools.

Those programs are always supposed to be "character building" for kids (Girl Scouts even talks about lessons in financial literacy). What in the world are the kids learning by handing off their papers to their parents?

I appreciate when workplaces do not allow managers to do this. I think many people feel obligated when that happens. That's not OK.

[DS]

Actually, there IS a biological reason it's mostly women doing MLMs: women have children. This sometimes results in women staying home with those children. Women start wishing there was some way of bringing in extra income that would allow them to work without having to pay for childcare.

Voila. Enter MLM schemes. Almost every person I know who got sucked into the too good to be true MLM siren song is a SAHM who wants to hustle and earn money for the household. Sadly, I've never heard of it working out.

The smart ones I know change gears fast to some kind of cottage industry sort of thing--baking for parties or photography or tutoring or whatever. The sad ones just cycle through every MLM flavor of the month and burn their social bridges.

Not biological, circumstantial.

[Davnasty]

Actually, there IS a biological reason it's mostly women doing MLMs: women have children. This sometimes results in women staying home with those children. Women start wishing there was some way of bringing in extra income that would allow them to work without having to pay for childcare.

Voila. Enter MLM schemes. Almost every person I know who got sucked into the too good to be true MLM siren song is a SAHM who wants to hustle and earn money for the household. Sadly, I've never heard of it working out.

The smart ones I know change gears fast to some kind of cottage industry sort of thing--baking for parties or photography or tutoring or whatever. The sad ones just cycle through every MLM flavor of the month and burn their social bridges.

This was my first thought reading Gone Fishing's comment. Maybe the original comment wasn't worded the best, but I feel like we should be able to acknowledge the tactics that marketers use to take our money. There's no question that marketers use different tactics to appeal to women than they do to appeal to men. "Investment" scams seem to be more targeted at men and I've seen discussions on the forum on why women are more level headed investors based on their biology. I don't see any problem with that.

If mods prefer we not discuss it because it inevitably leads to shit slinging, well OK, I'll shut up now.

[mm1970]

I've chimed in on previous threads. But here's the summary:

Mona Vie?
If you find you're getting an energy boost from $60 bottles of fruit juice, your diet is probably so lousy there's a lot you could be doing for less money.

Rodan & Fields?
I'm a dude, but quality skincare can be had for a far cheaper price, so says women in the know.

LuLaRoe?
They're freakin' yoga pants. My wife's butt looks good in anything, but I've found how much I like her yoga pants tends to be inversely proportionate to how much she spent on them.

Why can't people have parties anymore that don't involve an MLM shakedown?

Got a couple of friends in this one, and one of them is really hawking it on FB.  Now, I have to say that the photos look good. 

Sheer laziness to go out and find something that works as well for cheaper, would be what could get me to buy the stuff.

I did google the stuff that she was hawking ... oh boy, the prices!

I guess the things that hold me back are:
1.  I'm cheap
2.  I'm low maintenance.  My skincare routine is "wash my face with soap in the shower"
3.  I guess even though I live in CA among the beautiful people, I'm okay with showing my age? 

I mean, is it wrong to be a late 40's female and look it?  And to wear glasses (progressives!) and no makeup?

[Beard N Bones]

I personally know 3 women who each earn 6 figures from their MLMs.  All cosmetic companies with excellent quality products.

All 3 live in HCOL areas where high prices and people spending lots of $ on personal items are not unusual.  This is not Avon or Mary Kay stuff.  I think that makes a big difference.

I think if the product is top quality, decently priced, right for your demographic, and you believe in it then the MLM might be good for you.

@profnot There is no way that your friends are netting 6 figures from their MLMs.  Have you seen their income tax statements?
There are only 2 options here:
1.  They are LYING:  They are trying to sell the idea that they have made it before they actually have - "fake it until you make it." 
2.  They are PREDATORY:  they are the originators, or close friends/family, of the MLMs they are promoting (- and shame on them if they are!)
The numbers don't make room for any other options.

[Beard N Bones]

I think it works for really good salespeople who are also business-minded.

That said, I don't care for it. Right now essential oils are the rage in my circle and two friends have already talked to me. Then my dear 18 year old niece started selling purses. I reluctantly let her add me to her FB group. But got kinda busy so after looking at a few, I stopped looking. Plus I only buy purses from thrift stores. So I was wrecking my head thinking of who to buy gifts for to "support" her. I hate saying no so I always feel uncomfortable by all the asks.

My mother is huge into MLMs. Loves loves loves them. Has sold multiple different brands over the years. Still believes firmly in every one of them. Currently sells Melaleuca. She is a salesperson at heart though so typically does very well. I have a huge personal objection to MLM structures though and so far have resisted taking her various vitamins and supplements. But they do noticeably work for her (who knows if there are cheaper versions) so I dish out $100/mo to pay for her monthly supply as my gift to her (makes her happy).

It doesn't matter how much of a sales person or how business minded a person is, getting involved with an MLM is a losing proposition.
You have better odds making money gambling for a living.
People that get involved in pyramid schemes are less likely to lose money than those that are in MLMs!

There is a reason your mom has sold multiple brands over the years - because even though she believes in them, she is not making money getting involved with them.

[bernardnb]

I actually like the LulaRoe clothing but don’t like their prices. So I buy second hand or from consultants who are selling at cost as they quit being a consultant. I find a lot of people that buy whatever they like and don’t even cut the tags off before deciding they have too many. I’ll take half price clothes. :)

My wife is the same, likes the clothes, not the prices. What she does is picks off all the popular prints in "parties" and resells them at a large mark-up. That way what she keeps is covered and she's probably made $2-3K over the last 2 years.

She kills it around holidays.  It's insane what people will pay for a pair leggings.  The rare Christmas ones will go for over $100!

[Indexer]

MLMs are just Pyramid schemes that have products. The products aren't there to actually be sold. They are there to distract from the fact that it's a pyramid scheme.

[Travis]

How do you guys feel about parents bringing in their kid's fundraising stuff into work? It's not MLM, but it is marketing that relies on social imposition in order to generate sales.

I don't find it annoying like MLM, because it's pretty easy to say no. But I do find it odd. Everyone I work with makes enough money to be able to afford to send their kids on boy scout retreats or whatever. So why do they cut popcorn/candy manufactures in on it so much?

It's gone down quite a bit in my work environment and is more or less considered unethical now.

[MM_MG]

Didn't read the replies above...

Great for the person/people at the top.  Bad for the suckas that buy in.  Worse for the family and friends of the suckas that have to listen to the drivel.

[profnot]

Beard and Bones -

You are rude and you are wrong.

I know each of these gals personally.

I've seen the numbers for one of the ladies I mentioned as she asks me for financial comments and opens her quickbooks accounts for my viewing.  This gal works in the movie industry as a makeup artist.  Selling expensive top quality cosmetics to people in that industry is a piece of cake.

Another gal is in Miami.  I've met one of the 3 owners of the MLM company this gal works for.  The owner consulted me on marketing demographics for the state in which I was living.

The third gal has downliners in 45 states.  I use her products and they are top quality.  She has a 4K sq ft house on 5 acres with no mortgage.


B&B:
Don't be so full of yourself and think you know what you obviously do not know.

[patchyfacialhair]

Beard and Bones -

You are rude and you are wrong.

I know each of these gals personally.

I've seen the numbers for one of the ladies I mentioned as she asks me for financial comments and opens her quickbooks accounts for my viewing.  This gal works in the movie industry as a makeup artist.  Selling expensive top quality cosmetics to people in that industry is a piece of cake.

Another gal is in Miami.  I've met one of the 3 owners of the MLM company this gal works for.  The owner consulted me on marketing demographics for the state in which I was living.

The third gal has downliners in 45 states.  I use her products and they are top quality.  She has a 4K sq ft house on 5 acres with no mortgage.


B&B:
Don't be so full of yourself and think you know what you obviously do not know.

So your point is...it's possible to make money if you're one of the top .001%? Or one of the first 3 in an MLM scheme?

So then sure, I'm convinced. MLMs are the way to go! Pack it up everyone. Show's over.

[GilbertB]

I consider it a con.
I rate them less honest than the guy with the 3 plastic cups and the peanut on a cardboard box at the entrance of the subway.

[Beard N Bones]

Beard and Bones -

You are rude and you are wrong.

I know each of these gals personally.

I've seen the numbers for one of the ladies I mentioned as she asks me for financial comments and opens her quickbooks accounts for my viewing.  This gal works in the movie industry as a makeup artist.  Selling expensive top quality cosmetics to people in that industry is a piece of cake.

Another gal is in Miami.  I've met one of the 3 owners of the MLM company this gal works for.  The owner consulted me on marketing demographics for the state in which I was living.

The third gal has downliners in 45 states.  I use her products and they are top quality.  She has a 4K sq ft house on 5 acres with no mortgage.


B&B:
Don't be so full of yourself and think you know what you obviously do not know.

@profnot I'm confident in what I know about MLM's.  Sorry if I came across as rude.  That's not my intention.  Often times the products that are being sold by MLMs are decent.  However, as a business, they are abhorrent and parasitic.  (And so, even if an MLM product was the next bread of life, our family would choose to refuse to buy that product because of the deceptiveness (wish I could think of a stronger word here) of the MLM business model.)  This conclusion, and the conclusions I made earlier (1. Your friends are lying about their income, or 2. They do make as much money as you suggest - but are predatory in doing so), are a result of reading about the "business" behind how MLMs work.  Here are a couple of good reads on the subject.  @profnot  I challenge you to read them and then tell me if you still think I am wrong. 
1.  MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING UNMASKED – A Complete and Compelling Case against MLM as an Unfair and Deceptive Practice by Jon M. Taylor
http://banvaz.com/MLM.pdf
2.  The Myth of "Income Opportunity" in Multi-Level Marketing by Robert L. FitzPatrick
http://www.pinktruth.com/wp-content/uploads/fitzpatrick-mlm-study.pdf

Once again, the numbers don't lie. 

[englishteacheralex]

The thing is, MLMs are a scam, plain and simple.

But as with a lot of scams, they have zealous defenders. The psychology behind this is kinda interesting and replicated in lots of other things that are also scams.

Anyway, it's normal that when you call out MLMs as a scam, you get some angry people saying MLMs are actually amazing. I've given up on trying to convince anybody that MLMs are scams. Instead, I just proclaim: they are scummy scams. We live in a free country. To each his own.

[GuitarStv]

MLMs are just Pyramid schemes that have products. The products aren't there to actually be sold. They are there to distract from the fact that it's a pyramid scheme.

+1