Author Topic: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?  (Read 20338 times)

oldtoyota

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What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« on: February 14, 2014, 08:08:47 PM »
For me, it's YNAB--to a certain extent.

I used to keep the software updated every week. Since I've decided to cut a bunch of categories, I do not have as much to track. Now, I can leave things on autopilot and do a couple of updates per month.

Is there anything you don't need to do after getting to a certain point in your frugality/budgeting?

greaper007

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2014, 09:37:02 PM »
Cleaning products.   What a waste of money, and toxic.

artistache

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2014, 09:42:59 PM »
might also involve having changed my diet pretty drastically, but milk and orange juice.

Nords

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2014, 10:34:45 PM »
Soda.

I stopped drinking alcohol for personal reasons, but that's certainly more frugal.

We eat out a lot less because it's just not as important to us anymore.

Melody

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2014, 11:08:00 PM »
Taxis... I was never a big user, but now there is no way drinking is worth this much to me - bus, bike, train, get lift, walk or stay sober and drive yourself... no other options!

mxt0133

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2014, 11:19:01 PM »
Going to the movies or renting DVDs.  I now have Netflix and only get DVDs at the library.

gooki

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2014, 12:43:22 AM »
A second car.

phred

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2014, 10:32:43 AM »
the phone number for the local payday loan outfit

oldtoyota

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2014, 12:03:25 PM »
Cleaning products.   What a waste of money, and toxic.

Agreed! I've been making mine for years. My desire was mainly to reduce the use of chemicals. Saving money was a bonus.

oldtoyota

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2014, 12:04:13 PM »
A second car.

Sigh. Wish I could get the spouse to agree on this one!

Russ

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2014, 12:24:17 PM »
A job?

SisterX

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2014, 01:55:10 PM »
Lots of space.  Growing up, I always wanted to live in a mansion.  (Like, this was my dream when I was 10.)  Now that I'm in my 30s, and realize all the expenses involved and what a pain in the ass it is to clean a big house, I much prefer a small space. 

DunkCityFan

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2014, 02:27:24 PM »
Student loan deduction

MrFancypants

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2014, 04:27:32 PM »
Cable TV

nottoolatetostart

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2014, 04:33:53 AM »
For me, it's YNAB--to a certain extent.

I used to keep the software updated every week. Since I've decided to cut a bunch of categories, I do not have as much to track. Now, I can leave things on autopilot and do a couple of updates per month.

Is there anything you don't need to do after getting to a certain point in your frugality/budgeting?

Can you go into this a little more on why you don't need YNAB anymore or needing it less? I am trying to be less obsessive about updating/constantly checking/etc and I wonder if I need to break up with YNAB to get myself out of that habit. Thanks!

Stacey

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2014, 05:44:09 AM »
Professional hair cuts, shampoo and conditioner, and regular glasses of wine (wine is still on the menu, just much less frequently).

Rural

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2014, 05:51:56 AM »
A credit score. Mostly, anyway.

cdttmm

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2014, 06:38:00 AM »
Vacations. I stopped working a stressful job and my need for vacations went away. It helps that I love where I live so I don't feel a pull to go somewhere exotic and label it a vacation. I still travel, but it is usually to attend conferences, see friends, or run an ultramarathon.

Thegoblinchief

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2014, 07:24:08 AM »
+1 cleaning chemicals

Packaged/convenience food. The very rare take and bake pizza is an exception.

Restaurant/dining out anytime other than on vacation (when in-laws insist).

I am tempted to drop to a single car, but I use mine with the kids just enough that it's worth not stressing my wife about getting home from work on time.

lifejoy

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2014, 08:40:56 AM »
Fancy toilet paper :)

DougStache

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2014, 08:46:12 AM »
I don't need to take out the trash every week.  More like once a month... because our recycling bin is full.

MrFancypants

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2014, 09:07:54 AM »
Fancy toilet paper :)

Fancy toilet paper is really cheap at Costco/Sam's Club!  =)

stevesteve

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2014, 10:09:21 AM »
I use a lot fewer bus fares.  Instead of taking the bus at the first sign of bad weather I now will walk with an umbrella or continue to bike.  Even in the snow when I don't bike much I have walked as much as I've taken the bus.

Grateful Stache

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2014, 12:50:44 PM »
Gift cards.

I received several from family members over Christmas, and they are sitting idle. 

libertarian4321

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2014, 01:53:22 AM »
Fancy toilet paper :)

Am I the only one who has no idea what "fancy toilet paper" is?

Seems like a bad idea on the face of it.  Why "fancy" when it's going to look really unfancy immediately upon use?

LibraTraci

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2014, 03:21:28 AM »
Fancy toilet paper :)

Am I the only one who has no idea what "fancy toilet paper" is?
Fancy toilet paper feels like using a paper towel to wipe your butt.  It is very unpleasant if you're used to using thin, cheapie TP!

Of course, when I say it feels like using a paper towel on your behind, I mean that it feels like using a "fancy" paper towel on your behind.  So, I guess I'm being circular!

By my standards, Charmin is fancy toilet paper; Bounty is fancy paper towel.  Perhaps that helps!

seattlecyclone

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2014, 10:09:42 AM »
Can you go into this a little more on why you don't need YNAB anymore or needing it less? I am trying to be less obsessive about updating/constantly checking/etc and I wonder if I need to break up with YNAB to get myself out of that habit. Thanks!

I'm not going to put words in another person's mouth, but I think people generally get out of the need for budgeting software because they reduce their desire to spend too much money. If you think about it, a budget is really just a way to try and force yourself to spend less money because you know in your head that spending less is a good idea, but you still want those lattes or that fancy car in your heart of hearts. Once you truly get your wants under control, a budget is just unnecessary overhead.

RMD

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2014, 10:22:57 AM »
I'm not going to put words in another person's mouth, but I think people generally get out of the need for budgeting software because they reduce their desire to spend too much money. If you think about it, a budget is really just a way to try and force yourself to spend less money because you know in your head that spending less is a good idea, but you still want those lattes or that fancy car in your heart of hearts. Once you truly get your wants under control, a budget is just unnecessary overhead.

I never really thought about it like this but I've never used a budgeting software and have always felt a little embarrassed/guilty that I don't have a budget, per se.  I've tried to put one on paper several times but it's just never worked out...and I think it's because we do have our wants under control and so we don't have a true *need* to budget.  Thanks for putting into words what I've been feeling kind of (unknowingly) guilty about!  Now that I understand, I will permanently give up on attempting to force myself into a "budget" and will continue with tracking spending.

aj_yooper

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2014, 10:49:07 AM »
Cell phone, gym membership, new clothes, second car, and most of the stuff in my garage.

Beer and wine, restaurants, and vacations still important.

gecko10x

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2014, 10:56:19 AM »
Can you go into this a little more on why you don't need YNAB anymore or needing it less? I am trying to be less obsessive about updating/constantly checking/etc and I wonder if I need to break up with YNAB to get myself out of that habit. Thanks!

I'm not going to put words in another person's mouth, but I think people generally get out of the need for budgeting software because they reduce their desire to spend too much money. If you think about it, a budget is really just a way to try and force yourself to spend less money because you know in your head that spending less is a good idea, but you still want those lattes or that fancy car in your heart of hearts. Once you truly get your wants under control, a budget is just unnecessary overhead.

Budgets also help you stay organized and informed.

Personally, I like knowing that I have the right amount set aside for infrequent bills; that way an extra $1000 in a given month doesn't affect my other spending.

smalllife

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2014, 10:59:25 AM »
For me, it's YNAB--to a certain extent.

I used to keep the software updated every week. Since I've decided to cut a bunch of categories, I do not have as much to track. Now, I can leave things on autopilot and do a couple of updates per month.

Is there anything you don't need to do after getting to a certain point in your frugality/budgeting?

Can you go into this a little more on why you don't need YNAB anymore or needing it less? I am trying to be less obsessive about updating/constantly checking/etc and I wonder if I need to break up with YNAB to get myself out of that habit. Thanks!

With fewer transactions there is less of a need to constantly check category balances and/or reconcile.  I definitely check it less, but I wouldn't say that I need it less.  It's a lifesaver for infrequent but large bills and making me feel comfortable sending large amounts of money into harder to access accounts.

oldtoyota

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2014, 11:58:48 AM »
For me, it's YNAB--to a certain extent.

I used to keep the software updated every week. Since I've decided to cut a bunch of categories, I do not have as much to track. Now, I can leave things on autopilot and do a couple of updates per month.

Is there anything you don't need to do after getting to a certain point in your frugality/budgeting?

Can you go into this a little more on why you don't need YNAB anymore or needing it less? I am trying to be less obsessive about updating/constantly checking/etc and I wonder if I need to break up with YNAB to get myself out of that habit. Thanks!

To clarify, I will still use it, yet I will update it less often.

I was updating it a LOT starting last May or whenever I started using it. Eventually, I "uncovered" the waste in my spending and zapped it all.

I want to "zap" all waste--time, money, effort--as much as possible. To update YNAB every week is, for me, a waste of time.

This is my current process:

1. Enter bank transactions by hand (we have so few that this is not a problem).
1 a. Alternate: I want to get the automatic recurring bank transactions on autopilot, which one can do via YNAB. YNAB will add the transaction and then ask you to confirm. This saves me from having to enter it. This works for monthly expenses that are the same amount every month like the mortgage.

2. Enter credit card transactions. We mostly use one card. The second card--only used when a place doesn't take Amex--might have around $300 on it per month. I sometimes will enter that one as a payment and not bother with categorizing. I know we're not wasting $$ on it, so why bother??
2 a. When I enter the cc transactions, I download the .qsv and import it right into YNAB. Saves lots of time.

When I was more obsessive about YNAB--and even this board--I just let myself be that way. I knew that eventually I would pull back when I was ready. Now, I log in here less often and I use YNAB less often. This seems like a natural progression to me.

I never had debt so my process might not work for everyone.

Hope this helps!






oldtoyota

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2014, 12:00:37 PM »
Can you go into this a little more on why you don't need YNAB anymore or needing it less? I am trying to be less obsessive about updating/constantly checking/etc and I wonder if I need to break up with YNAB to get myself out of that habit. Thanks!

I'm not going to put words in another person's mouth, but I think people generally get out of the need for budgeting software because they reduce their desire to spend too much money. If you think about it, a budget is really just a way to try and force yourself to spend less money because you know in your head that spending less is a good idea, but you still want those lattes or that fancy car in your heart of hearts. Once you truly get your wants under control, a budget is just unnecessary overhead.

Budgets also help you stay organized and informed.

Personally, I like knowing that I have the right amount set aside for infrequent bills; that way an extra $1000 in a given month doesn't affect my other spending.

What I like best about YNAB is being able to "see" the saved money bucketed. One example is school tuition. I've been saving up to pay the 2014 tuition since right after I paid last year's tuition. By paying the tuition in one sum this coming summer, I will be charged several hundred dollars less.

I will definitely still use YNAB--just don't need to update it as often. I realize now that my post title was a little off base...

« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 12:04:17 PM by oldtoyota »

oldtoyota

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2014, 12:05:45 PM »
+1 job. =-)

Haircuts--check!
Shampoo--check!
Cleaning supplies--check!
Paper towels--check! (using cloth)
Paper napkins--check! (using cloth)
Meals in restaurants.
Clothing. (I'll need it eventually, but I am abstaining for 2014).

dachs

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2014, 01:29:45 PM »
What do you use instead of shampoo?

Emilyngh

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2014, 01:31:29 PM »
+1 job. =-)

Haircuts--check!
Shampoo--check!
Cleaning supplies--check!
Paper towels--check! (using cloth)
Paper napkins--check! (using cloth)
Meals in restaurants.
Clothing. (I'll need it eventually, but I am abstaining for 2014).

Yup, exactly all of this.   Plus really most other beauty products, other than home-made.   I now can use oils and bees wax to whip up my own body butter, lotion, hair pomade, lip stuff, etc.   I use oil to clean my face, Dr. Bronner's as a body wash, and baking soda as shampoo.   Don't miss any of the old stuff.

Oh, and laundry detergent.   We make this super easy recipe (prefer it to shaving bar soap) using natural dish liquid instead of dawn: http://www.onegoodthingbyjillee.com/2012/02/no-grate-homemade-laundry-soap.html

Out of the above, the thing that seems the most shockingly simple and yet works so very well that I never thought of before is getting rid of new clothes buying.   I'm shocked at how great I look owning fewer things and only buying used :)

Stacey

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2014, 01:49:44 PM »
What do you use instead of shampoo?

baking soda for the wash and apple cider vinegar for the conditioner once a week.  I "wash" my hair with water more often, but find that I can easily go a week without needing to use the baking soda and acv.  In both cases, I use about one tablespoon in eight ounces of hot water.

mahina

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2014, 02:36:49 PM »
garden twine. i have a large new zealand flax plant, and use the lower leaves, split and dried, to tie orchids on trees, tomatoes to bamboo supports (and yes, we grow the bamboo for this), sun screens over lettuces, flowering vines onto porch rails, etc.

living in hawaii, frugally, i no longer pay for heating, air conditioning, storm windows, snow shovels, ice scrapers, pipe insulation, coats, warm hats, boots, sweaters, gloves, socks, scarves, earmuffs, stockings, shoes, business attire, dressy attire, nightlife, gym memberships, gym gear, gym attire-- you get the picture. yes, hawaii is expensive, but the savings are enormous!

thepokercab

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2014, 02:59:52 PM »
I've ditched my car, haircuts, smartphones and movies/netflix (now I just use the library) 

Biggest challenge for me still is food, and eating out.  I've made some improvements here, but I still wince at the spending at the end of the month. 

aj_yooper

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2014, 03:03:42 PM »
garden twine. i have a large new zealand flax plant, and use the lower leaves, split and dried, to tie orchids on trees, tomatoes to bamboo supports (and yes, we grow the bamboo for this), sun screens over lettuces, flowering vines onto porch rails, etc.

living in hawaii, frugally, i no longer pay for heating, air conditioning, storm windows, snow shovels, ice scrapers, pipe insulation, coats, warm hats, boots, sweaters, gloves, socks, scarves, earmuffs, stockings, shoes, business attire, dressy attire, nightlife, gym memberships, gym gear, gym attire-- you get the picture. yes, hawaii is expensive, but the savings are enormous!

Oh, yeah!

crumbcatcher

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2014, 05:04:59 PM »
Lots of space.  Growing up, I always wanted to live in a mansion.  (Like, this was my dream when I was 10.)  Now that I'm in my 30s, and realize all the expenses involved and what a pain in the ass it is to clean a big house, I much prefer a small space.

Yes!  I have 1100 sf, which is big by some Mustachian standards but smallish by some other standards. I always wanted more space too, but for the reasons above, and with a more frugal mindset, I've made peace with my 1100 sf. Relief from the constant urge to inflate my lifestyle has been considerable where my house is concerned.

Other things I no longer need - my dishwasher and dryer!  I've been handwashing dishes and hang drying clothes this month and I'm loving it. 

(I do still pop some things into the dryer for a few minutes before hanging them to soften them up a bit, but am fully aware that this is a very optional decision. It just feels good to no longer be on auto-pilot with these things.)

nktokyo

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2014, 05:12:53 PM »
a boss

jordanread

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2014, 06:38:24 PM »
For me, dishwasher. Working on the cigarettes and booze.
I was never much one for clothes shopping, but I did recently learn how to use a sewing machine, so got some extra years out of a few pairs of pants.

greaper007

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2014, 08:41:06 PM »
Why have you guys stopped using your dishwashers?   I have a newer energy star dishwasher and it uses considerably less water than hand washing does.    Though I live in Denver so water is a much more precious resource here than electricity (.12 kwh).

jordanread

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2014, 07:44:36 AM »
Why have you guys stopped using your dishwashers?   I have a newer energy star dishwasher and it uses considerably less water than hand washing does.    Though I live in Denver so water is a much more precious resource here than electricity (.12 kwh).
  • It takes me like a week to get a full load, and I have to rinse them anyway otherwise they don't get clean with a single wash.
  • I don't have a newer dishwasher, so it's used as a very large dish drying rack.
I haven't even looked at newer dish washers, but do you have some numbers regarding the comparison to hand-washing?

greaper007

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #45 on: February 19, 2014, 08:47:37 AM »
Why have you guys stopped using your dishwashers?   I have a newer energy star dishwasher and it uses considerably less water than hand washing does.    Though I live in Denver so water is a much more precious resource here than electricity (.12 kwh).
  • It takes me like a week to get a full load, and I have to rinse them anyway otherwise they don't get clean with a single wash.
  • I don't have a newer dishwasher, so it's used as a very large dish drying rack.
I haven't even looked at newer dish washers, but do you have some numbers regarding the comparison to hand-washing?

Here's an interesting page.  http://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html

I take it that you're a single guy that's not into the culinary arts, hand washing might be a better bet than having to buy a new dishwasher for you.    Personally, I was going through a load of dishes every other day even before kids.   Now I always do a load a day.   But I cook a few times a day and do semi-elaborate dinners.   YMMV

jordanread

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #46 on: February 19, 2014, 08:54:36 AM »
Why have you guys stopped using your dishwashers?   I have a newer energy star dishwasher and it uses considerably less water than hand washing does.    Though I live in Denver so water is a much more precious resource here than electricity (.12 kwh).
  • It takes me like a week to get a full load, and I have to rinse them anyway otherwise they don't get clean with a single wash.
  • I don't have a newer dishwasher, so it's used as a very large dish drying rack.
I haven't even looked at newer dish washers, but do you have some numbers regarding the comparison to hand-washing?

Here's an interesting page.  http://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html

I take it that you're a single guy that's not into the culinary arts, hand washing might be a better bet than having to buy a new dishwasher for you.    Personally, I was going through a load of dishes every other day even before kids.   Now I always do a load a day.   But I cook a few times a day and do semi-elaborate dinners.   YMMV
Actually, I live with my SO, and both of us love the culinary arts. I think the difference is that we only cook 3 times a week. Friday's, we do a nice dinner for the two of us, Saturday we cook for her dinners for the week, and Sunday, I cook for me for the week.
I did skim that article, so thanks for that. I'll have to challenge my assumptions when I move into a place where I'm willing to upgrade.

crumbcatcher

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2014, 11:55:38 AM »
Why have you guys stopped using your dishwashers?   I have a newer energy star dishwasher and it uses considerably less water than hand washing does.    Though I live in Denver so water is a much more precious resource here than electricity (.12 kwh).
  • It takes me like a week to get a full load, and I have to rinse them anyway otherwise they don't get clean with a single wash.
  • I don't have a newer dishwasher, so it's used as a very large dish drying rack.
I haven't even looked at newer dish washers, but do you have some numbers regarding the comparison to hand-washing?

Here's an interesting page.  http://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html

I take it that you're a single guy that's not into the culinary arts, hand washing might be a better bet than having to buy a new dishwasher for you.    Personally, I was going through a load of dishes every other day even before kids.   Now I always do a load a day.   But I cook a few times a day and do semi-elaborate dinners.   YMMV
Actually, I live with my SO, and both of us love the culinary arts. I think the difference is that we only cook 3 times a week. Friday's, we do a nice dinner for the two of us, Saturday we cook for her dinners for the week, and Sunday, I cook for me for the week.
I did skim that article, so thanks for that. I'll have to challenge my assumptions when I move into a place where I'm willing to upgrade.

I'll have to take a look at the article too.  I do have a newer dishwasher (4 or 5 years old), so maybe I would come out ahead, but like jordanread, I also don't generate a ton of dishes so it doesn't seem logical to let them sit until I have a full load.

I imagine that the energy efficiency really depends on how much water is actually used in handwashing vs. the dishwasher, which can vary from person to person in their handwashing.  I'd like to think that I use less hot water in the course of handwashing (because I don't leave the water running the whole time). Also, there is no heating element runnng to dry the dishes after the water stops.

But now that the challenge is out there, I want to gather some data.  We'll see how it turns out.  :-)


greaper007

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2014, 12:06:11 PM »

I'll have to take a look at the article too.  I do have a newer dishwasher (4 or 5 years old), so maybe I would come out ahead, but like jordanread, I also don't generate a ton of dishes so it doesn't seem logical to let them sit until I have a full load.

I imagine that the energy efficiency really depends on how much water is actually used in handwashing vs. the dishwasher, which can vary from person to person in their handwashing.  I'd like to think that I use less hot water in the course of handwashing (because I don't leave the water running the whole time). Also, there is no heating element runnng to dry the dishes after the water stops.

But now that the challenge is out there, I want to gather some data.  We'll see how it turns out.  :-)
[/quote]

Oh, I've never used the electric dryer, but I don't really care how the dishes look.   Most of my dishes are cloudy from a bad batch of diy detergent a few months ago (warning, don't put rice in the detergent to get rid of clumps).   

From what I understand, most dishwashers made within the last 10+ years will use 6 gallons or less per load as long as you're not using extra settings like pot scrubber.   So unless you can wash a whole load with less than 6 gallons (or more likely 4) you're probably better off using the dishwasher.

seattlecyclone

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Re: What Do You No Longer Need After Becoming More Frugal?
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2014, 12:25:34 PM »
Most dishwashers let you turn off the heated dry setting. The dishes dry just fine on their own, especially if you open up the front of the dishwasher shortly after it's finished and the dishes are still warm from the wash/rinse cycle.