Author Topic: What comes after the ACA?  (Read 1675854 times)

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6000 on: June 26, 2020, 02:48:14 PM »
This post instances "reliance interest," one of the criteria I've cited upthread that the  Supreme Court will weigh when it decides whether or  not to overturn the ACA.

In United States Department of Homeland Security, et al. v. Regents of the University of California, et al. (2020), the DACA opinion handed down earlier this month, C.J. Roberts obliquely expressed the relevance of reliance interest to the young-adult immigrants  currently covered by DACA.

Referring to an argument submitted by an amicus, Roberts noted that the young-adult  immigrants had “enrolled in degree programs, embarked on careers, started businesses, purchased homes, and even married and had children."

This consequential constellation of major life decisions leaves no doubt of the immigrants' reliance on DACA, a reliance  well understood by Roberts as evidenced by his reference below to "the hardship to DACA recipients."


We address only whether the agency complied with the procedural requirement that it provide a reasoned explanation for its action.

Here the agency failed to consider the conspicuous issues of whether to retain forbearance and what if anything to do about the hardship to DACA recipients.

 That dual failure raises doubts about whether the agency appreciated the scope of its discretion or exercised that discretion in a reasonable manner.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 02:57:47 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

Exflyboy

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6001 on: June 26, 2020, 02:59:25 PM »
Yeah its pretty clear that administration doesn't GAF about anyone who isn't rich. So hopefully even the conservative leaning Supreme Court has some sense of decency left.

jim555

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6002 on: June 26, 2020, 06:45:13 PM »
The whole suit is bunk.  The objection is the individual mandate is unconstitutional.  Robert's said it isn't a mandate (last time) because you have a choice whether or not to follow the mandate by paying the tax for not having insurance.  So now the tax has been lowered to $0 for not having insurance.  How is anything mandated if there is no penalty?  It isn't a mandate, it is a suggestion at this point.  This suit should have been thrown out for wasting the court's time.

Even if they agree many parts of the ACA have nothing to do with insurance, like the Medicaid expansion, closing the donut hole, etc..  I doubt they completely strike down the entire law.  I think they don't want to get near this hornets nest and are only taking this up to kill the suit and provide clarity.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 06:48:40 PM by jim555 »

Mr. Green

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6003 on: June 26, 2020, 10:47:31 PM »
Unbelievable -  Trump administration asks Supreme Court to invalidate Obamacare

Quote
(CNN) - In the midst of a global pandemic with the presidential election just months away, the Justice Department asked the Supreme Court on Thursday to invalidate the Affordable Care Act, the landmark health care law that enabled millions of Americans to get insurance coverage and that remains in effect despite the pending legal challenge.
Well you gotta give them credit for sticking to their guns. Lol

Not really, though it is pretty astounding that they're still beating that drum given the current situation. I think Ron White said it best. "You can't fix stupid."

Exflyboy

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6004 on: June 27, 2020, 06:18:56 AM »
Unbelievable -  Trump administration asks Supreme Court to invalidate Obamacare

Quote
(CNN) - In the midst of a global pandemic with the presidential election just months away, the Justice Department asked the Supreme Court on Thursday to invalidate the Affordable Care Act, the landmark health care law that enabled millions of Americans to get insurance coverage and that remains in effect despite the pending legal challenge.
Well you gotta give them credit for sticking to their guns. Lol

Not really, though it is pretty astounding that they're still beating that drum given the current situation. I think Ron White said it best. "You can't fix stupid."

Well "Darlene" with most of her teeth living in her falling down trailer in West Virginia thinks he's the best President we've ever had!

Not sure what I'm missing?..:)

pecunia

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6005 on: June 27, 2020, 07:54:08 AM »
Unbelievable -  Trump administration asks Supreme Court to invalidate Obamacare

Quote
(CNN) - In the midst of a global pandemic with the presidential election just months away, the Justice Department asked the Supreme Court on Thursday to invalidate the Affordable Care Act, the landmark health care law that enabled millions of Americans to get insurance coverage and that remains in effect despite the pending legal challenge.
Well you gotta give them credit for sticking to their guns. Lol

Not really, though it is pretty astounding that they're still beating that drum given the current situation. I think Ron White said it best. "You can't fix stupid."

Well "Darlene" with most of her teeth living in her falling down trailer in West Virginia thinks he's the best President we've ever had!

Not sure what I'm missing?..:)

Yep - Gettin' sick in West Virginia gives you more of the meaning of when John Denver said it was "Almost Heaven."  Darlene knows that Trump and his boys are just trying to help people get to Heaven sooner, that's all.

Exflyboy

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6006 on: June 27, 2020, 10:12:46 AM »
Unbelievable -  Trump administration asks Supreme Court to invalidate Obamacare

Quote
(CNN) - In the midst of a global pandemic with the presidential election just months away, the Justice Department asked the Supreme Court on Thursday to invalidate the Affordable Care Act, the landmark health care law that enabled millions of Americans to get insurance coverage and that remains in effect despite the pending legal challenge.
Well you gotta give them credit for sticking to their guns. Lol

Not really, though it is pretty astounding that they're still beating that drum given the current situation. I think Ron White said it best. "You can't fix stupid."

Well "Darlene" with most of her teeth living in her falling down trailer in West Virginia thinks he's the best President we've ever had!

Not sure what I'm missing?..:)

Yep - Gettin' sick in West Virginia gives you more of the meaning of when John Denver said it was "Almost Heaven."  Darlene knows that Trump and his boys are just trying to help people get to Heaven sooner, that's all.

You see silly me I just clearly didn't get it!

So that why they don't wear masks at crowded Trump rallies then?..:)

American GenX

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6007 on: June 27, 2020, 10:59:27 AM »
Unbelievable -  Trump administration asks Supreme Court to invalidate Obamacare

Quote
(CNN) - In the midst of a global pandemic with the presidential election just months away, the Justice Department asked the Supreme Court on Thursday to invalidate the Affordable Care Act, the landmark health care law that enabled millions of Americans to get insurance coverage and that remains in effect despite the pending legal challenge.

This is pretty much expected.  This has been their stance for a while - that the entire ACA should be thrown out.  Remember, they had also been filing briefs for the Supreme Court not to take the case in the first place and let it work its way through the lower courts on appeal first.  SCOTUS took the case anyway.

Mr. Green

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6008 on: June 27, 2020, 12:43:44 PM »
Unbelievable -  Trump administration asks Supreme Court to invalidate Obamacare

Quote
(CNN) - In the midst of a global pandemic with the presidential election just months away, the Justice Department asked the Supreme Court on Thursday to invalidate the Affordable Care Act, the landmark health care law that enabled millions of Americans to get insurance coverage and that remains in effect despite the pending legal challenge.
Well you gotta give them credit for sticking to their guns. Lol

Not really, though it is pretty astounding that they're still beating that drum given the current situation. I think Ron White said it best. "You can't fix stupid."

Well "Darlene" with most of her teeth living in her falling down trailer in West Virginia thinks he's the best President we've ever had!

Not sure what I'm missing?..:)

Yep - Gettin' sick in West Virginia gives you more of the meaning of when John Denver said it was "Almost Heaven."  Darlene knows that Trump and his boys are just trying to help people get to Heaven sooner, that's all.

You see silly me I just clearly didn't get it!

So that why they don't wear masks at crowded Trump rallies then?..:)
All he'd have to do is pass around some kool-aid at one of those rallies and that would be that!

sherr

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6009 on: June 27, 2020, 05:03:13 PM »
All he'd have to do is pass around some kool-aid at one of those rallies and that would be that!

Fun historic fact: it was actually Flavor Aid.

jim555

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6010 on: June 29, 2020, 08:28:56 PM »
The House passed HR 1425 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Enhancement Act today.  It is an ACA improvement bill.  So it will sit and die since Republicans are out to kill the ACA, not make it better.

https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-116HR1425-RCP116-56.pdf


seattlecyclone

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6011 on: June 29, 2020, 10:57:15 PM »
The House passed HR 1425 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Enhancement Act today.  It is an ACA improvement bill.  So it will sit and die since Republicans are out to kill the ACA, not make it better.

https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-116HR1425-RCP116-56.pdf



That would be a big deal for early retirees if passed into law. It would eliminate the subsidy cliff for people over 400% of the poverty level, set subsidies at 100% of the second-cheapest silver plan for people under 150% of the poverty line, and increase maximum subsidies for everyone who qualifies for them now.

Paul der Krake

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6012 on: June 29, 2020, 11:06:56 PM »
...and just one election away from being law.

seattlecyclone

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6013 on: June 29, 2020, 11:34:40 PM »
...provided the Democrats win the White House and the Senate and get the Senate Democrats to sign on to the bill and abolish the filibuster. The first three each individually seem more likely than not at this point, the last one is a wild card, and it's a lot of things that would have to line up just right.

rantk81

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6014 on: June 30, 2020, 06:45:21 AM »
An interesting article I saw.... comes as no surprise to me, unfortunately...

https://qz.com/work/1874630/how-us-health-insurers-spread-lies-about-canadas-health-system/

Quote
Last week, former health insurance executive Wendell Potter tweeted a confession that went briefly viral before disappearing again into the news cycle ether. But his mea culpa deserves more attention.

Potter, who left Cigna where he was a vice-president of communications in 2008, wrote that in his previous career, he was among those in the health insurance industry who spent huge sums to convince Americans that Canada’s single-payer system was “awful.”

iris lily

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6015 on: June 30, 2020, 08:00:10 AM »
The House passed HR 1425 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Enhancement Act today.  It is an ACA improvement bill.  So it will sit and die since Republicans are out to kill the ACA, not make it better.

https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-116HR1425-RCP116-56.pdf



That would be a big deal for early retirees if passed into law. It would eliminate the subsidy cliff for people over 400% of the poverty level, set subsidies at 100% of the second-cheapest silver plan for people under 150% of the poverty line, and increase maximum subsidies for everyone who qualifies for them now.

My group of friends were bitching and moaning about the ACA  over the weekend.

 Person A was in a motorcycle accident, bad broken limb. No insurance. He is an attorney and is 50 years old, so not starting out. “Why doesn’t he have an ACA policy?” I ask. Because, ya know, that was supposed to solve most all problems. “That is too expensive!!!” The chorus said.

Included in the chorus was a  couple who does not have any health insurance. Too expensive they say.

Also in the chorus was a woman who had an ACA policy before she aged into Medicare.  “ it didn’t cover anything!!!” She said. I inquired and she said she had a silver policy.

All of these people, every one of them, pulls the blue lever when they vote. They are professional, educated people.

So what is my point here? It is this: people, they be wanting Nanny G to pay for everything. Ya’ll who think  the ACA is the bomb are not recognizing the very real phenomena of citizens who eschew the wonderful program of the ACA.

 Me— I was happy to have it available after my COBRA insurance ran out, and as an early retiree with low income and high net worth, it was a sweet deal cost-wise. We never put it to the test for real coverage although his cataract surgery was put off until Medicare because the ACA deductible was higher. But let me say, as a not-blue voter,
I was happy to have it to essentially protect my assets.

« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 11:56:44 AM by iris lily »

ctuser1

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6016 on: June 30, 2020, 08:12:51 AM »
The House passed HR 1425 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Enhancement Act today.  It is an ACA improvement bill.  So it will sit and die since Republicans are out to kill the ACA, not make it better.

https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-116HR1425-RCP116-56.pdf



That would be a big deal for early retirees if passed into law. It would eliminate the subsidy cliff for people over 400% of the poverty level, set subsidies at 100% of the second-cheapest silver plan for people under 150% of the poverty line, and increase maximum subsidies for everyone who qualifies for them now.

My group of friends were bitching and meaning about the ACA  over the weekend.

 Person A was in a motorcycle accident, bad broken limb. No insurance. He is an attorney and is 50 years old, so not starting out. “Why doesn’t he have an ACA policy?” I ask. Because, ya know, that was supposed to solve most all problems. “That is too expensive!!!” The chorus said.

Included in the chorus was a  couple who does not have any health insurance. Too expensive they say.

Also in the chorus was a woman who had an ACA policy before she aged into Medicare.  “ it didn’t cover anything!!!” She said. I inquired and she said she had a silver policy.

All of these people, every one of them, pulls the blue lever when they vote. They are professional, educated people.

So what is my point here? It is this: people, they be wanting Nanny G to pay for everything. Ya’ll who think  the ACA is the bomb are not recognizing the very real phenomena of citizens who eschew the wonderful program of the ACA.

 Me— I was happy to have it available after my COBRA insurance ran out, and as an early retiree with low income and high net worth, it was a sweet deal cost-wise. We never put it to the test for real coverage although his cataract surgery was put off until Medicare because the ACA deductible was higher. But let me say, as a not-blue voter,
I was happy to have it to essentially protect my assets.

ACA has a real issue for people earning > 4X poverty wage but not in six figures. The subsidy cliff makes it unaffordable for many people.

The primary reason IMO that does not get as much attention as the subsidy cliff is that ACA had to jettison the more "socialist" measures other countries would use to hammer down the medical costs in order to get people like Joe Lieberman (who was the senator representing me at that time) to vote for it.

There are high earning folks (maybe the attorney in your example) who are plain irresponsible and deserve whatever consequences come their way.

Maybe someday we will get truly "socialist" (or is it "communist"? forgot what Faux news is calling it now) healthcare that will take care of things that needs to be improved in Obamacare.

American GenX

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6017 on: June 30, 2020, 02:29:57 PM »
There are various other issues as well.  Some affect regular employer provided insurance as well.  Read some pages back in this thread about balance billing.  It's not a guarantee of protecting your assets.  But I certainly prefer it to the alternative, how things were before ACA.

DaMa

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6018 on: June 30, 2020, 07:34:05 PM »
An interesting article I saw.... comes as no surprise to me, unfortunately...

https://qz.com/work/1874630/how-us-health-insurers-spread-lies-about-canadas-health-system/

Quote
Last week, former health insurance executive Wendell Potter tweeted a confession that went briefly viral before disappearing again into the news cycle ether. But his mea culpa deserves more attention.

Potter, who left Cigna where he was a vice-president of communications in 2008, wrote that in his previous career, he was among those in the health insurance industry who spent huge sums to convince Americans that Canada’s single-payer system was “awful.”

He wrote an entire book about it:  Deadly Spin: An Insurance Company Insider Speaks Out on How Corporate PR Is Killing Health Care and Deceiving Americans

jim555

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6019 on: July 01, 2020, 09:25:04 PM »
Voters in Oklahoma narrowly approved a ballot measure Tuesday night to expand Medicaid to eligible adults who need health insurance. Oklahoma is now the 37th state to expand Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act; coverage will begin a year from now, on July 1, 2021.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/07/01/886307241/oklahoma-votes-for-medicaid-expansion-over-objections-of-republican-state-leader

pecunia

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6020 on: July 02, 2020, 04:52:36 AM »
An interesting article I saw.... comes as no surprise to me, unfortunately...

https://qz.com/work/1874630/how-us-health-insurers-spread-lies-about-canadas-health-system/

Quote
Last week, former health insurance executive Wendell Potter tweeted a confession that went briefly viral before disappearing again into the news cycle ether. But his mea culpa deserves more attention.

Potter, who left Cigna where he was a vice-president of communications in 2008, wrote that in his previous career, he was among those in the health insurance industry who spent huge sums to convince Americans that Canada’s single-payer system was “awful.”

He wrote an entire book about it:  Deadly Spin: An Insurance Company Insider Speaks Out on How Corporate PR Is Killing Health Care and Deceiving Americans

How did the Cigna human resources people find a guy or girl to replace him?  Were there interview questions like, "Do you have a conscience?"  Did they interview at a place like San Quentin?

talltexan

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6021 on: July 02, 2020, 07:39:09 AM »
The House passed HR 1425 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Enhancement Act today.  It is an ACA improvement bill.  So it will sit and die since Republicans are out to kill the ACA, not make it better.

https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-116HR1425-RCP116-56.pdf

Here we have this national health crisis, and Nancy Pelosi is wasting everyone's time by...trying to improve health care?

exit2019

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6022 on: July 03, 2020, 01:04:21 PM »
...and just one election away from being law.

The House passes a lot of things with the knowledge the Senate will either water it down or kill it.

pecunia

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6023 on: July 03, 2020, 07:18:26 PM »
...and just one election away from being law.

The House passes a lot of things with the knowledge the Senate will either water it down or kill it.

I think Moscow Mitch just kind of ignores a lot of the stuff sent alo0ng by the House.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6024 on: July 03, 2020, 08:29:24 PM »
...and just one election away from being law.

The House passes a lot of things with the knowledge the Senate will either water it down or kill it.

I think Moscow Mitch just kind of ignores a lot of the stuff sent alo0ng by the House.
Yup, and Harry Reid did exactly the same thing when the roles were reversed.

seattlecyclone

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6025 on: July 03, 2020, 09:01:05 PM »
...and just one election away from being law.

The House passes a lot of things with the knowledge the Senate will either water it down or kill it.

I think Moscow Mitch just kind of ignores a lot of the stuff sent alo0ng by the House.
Yup, and Harry Reid did exactly the same thing when the roles were reversed.

Yep, and this is exactly why recent presidents have taken to finding how far they can stretch the law through executive orders instead of waiting for Congress to legislate. Aside from semi-mandatory bills to keep paying for the government, Congress basically doesn't pass bills anymore.

Exflyboy

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6026 on: July 04, 2020, 10:51:30 AM »
The House passed HR 1425 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Enhancement Act today.  It is an ACA improvement bill.  So it will sit and die since Republicans are out to kill the ACA, not make it better.

https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-116HR1425-RCP116-56.pdf

Here we have this national health crisis, and Nancy Pelosi is wasting everyone's time by...trying to improve health care?

Sounds like Socialism to me... Socialism.. baaad... Says Darlene with most of her teeth in a West Virginia trailer park.

jim555

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6027 on: July 04, 2020, 02:55:24 PM »
The subsidies would be much more generous under HR 1425 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Enhancement Act

Current Law in 2020    
100 – 133%    2.06%    
133 – 150%    3.09 – 4.12%    
150 – 200%    4.12 – 6.49%    
200 – 250%    6.49 – 8.29%    
250 – 300%    8.29 – 9.78%    
300-400%    9.78%    
Above 400%    No subsidy

Under H.R. 1425
100 – 133%    0.0%
133 – 150%    0.0%
150 – 200%    0.0 – 3.0%
200 – 250%    3.0 – 4.0%
250 – 300%    4.0 – 6.0%
300-400%    6.0 – 8.5%
Above 400%    8.5%

No more cliff over 400% FPL.

nalor511

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6028 on: July 05, 2020, 07:22:49 PM »
No cliff is a good thing.

American GenX

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6029 on: July 05, 2020, 09:33:34 PM »
No cliff is a good thing, but I think the PCT should phase out slowly as income goes up until it's $0.

Out of pocket costs are still too high, especially above the income levels that allow CSR to subsidize those costs on a silver plan, but I think the proposed legislation would address that to some degree as well.  I'm not following anything too closely that has no chance of passing under the current Senate and President.  The ACA may not even stand when SCOTUS rules on the case.  I'm hopeful, but there's no certainty about that.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 09:41:52 PM by American GenX »

seattlecyclone

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6030 on: July 06, 2020, 11:48:40 AM »
No cliff is a good thing, but I think the PCT should phase out slowly as income goes up until it's $0.

That's what the bill would do. For folks over 400% of the poverty line, it would set the premium tax credit at the difference between the cost of the second-cheapest silver plan and 8.5% of their income. As income increases that difference will decrease, eventually falling to zero.

American GenX

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6031 on: July 06, 2020, 11:02:09 PM »
No cliff is a good thing, but I think the PCT should phase out slowly as income goes up until it's $0.

That's what the bill would do. For folks over 400% of the poverty line, it would set the premium tax credit at the difference between the cost of the second-cheapest silver plan and 8.5% of their income. As income increases that difference will decrease, eventually falling to zero.

Got it.  Like I said, I wasn't following that too closely.  But, that works for me.

Mr. Green

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6032 on: July 07, 2020, 09:40:44 AM »
No cliff is a good thing, but I think the PCT should phase out slowly as income goes up until it's $0.

That's what the bill would do. For folks over 400% of the poverty line, it would set the premium tax credit at the difference between the cost of the second-cheapest silver plan and 8.5% of their income. As income increases that difference will decrease, eventually falling to zero.
I think this is very reasonable. I would gladly pay 8.5% of my income at any income level to have a silver plan, which in my experience has always had reasonable copays, deductibles, and maximum out of pocket amounts. Sure that might still mean a hefty sum in a year where someone has a major emergency but that seems appropriate given how seldom it occurs. It would pull in a big part of the middle class that are caught in the "still too expensive" category and help further stabilize the markets by bringing healthier people into the system.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6033 on: July 11, 2020, 11:45:14 AM »

 The ACA may not even stand when SCOTUS rules on the case.  I'm hopeful, but there's no certainty about that.



What constitutional rationale do you think SCOTUS would rely on to strike down the ACA?


jim555

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6034 on: July 11, 2020, 12:35:09 PM »
What constitutional rationale do you think SCOTUS would rely on to strike down the ACA?
The case was the Individual Mandate was a mandate and  therefore unconstitutional.  Roberts ruled last time that it wasn't a mandate because the penalty was tied to a tax, therefore no mandate, therefore constitutional.  Since the penalty was set to $0, they argue it is a mandate now, and therefore unconstitutional.  It is an absurdity, a mandate with no legal repercussions is not a mandate, it is a suggestion.  The suit is garbage.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6035 on: July 11, 2020, 02:03:31 PM »
What constitutional rationale do you think SCOTUS would rely on to strike down the ACA?
The case was the Individual Mandate was a mandate and  therefore unconstitutional.  Roberts ruled last time that it wasn't a mandate because the penalty was tied to a tax, therefore no mandate, therefore constitutional.  Since the penalty was set to $0, they argue it is a mandate now, and therefore unconstitutional.  It is an absurdity, a mandate with no legal repercussions is not a mandate, it is a suggestion.  The suit is garbage.


Fletcher v. Peck (1810)

One legislature is competent to repeal any act which a former legislature was competent to pass; and that one legislature cannot abridge the powers of a succeeding legislature...The correctness of this principle, so far as respects general legislation can never be controverted.

Manigault v. Springs (1905)

 A general law...may be repealed, amended or disregarded by the legislature which enacted it [and] is not binding upon any subsequent legislature.


The Congress of 2017 was not bound to abstain from changing the ACA or repealing it entirely.  This Congress had complete, legitimate    power to repeal the ACA when it passed the TCJA that included the provision that  lowered the individual mandate penalty to zero.

That Congress did not exercise its constitutional power to repeal the ACA will hardly be brushed aside by the Court when next term it hears the argument that it should strike down the ACA.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 02:05:19 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

jim555

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6036 on: July 11, 2020, 07:16:50 PM »
Oklahoma and Missouri launched ballot initiatives to expand Medicaid.  Oklahoma passed the initiative a few week ago.  Missouri will vote on the issue August 4th.  Idaho, Utah, Maine and Nebraska all passed Medicaid ballot measures.  HR 1425 will punish states that refuse the expansion by cutting funding.

Shane

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6037 on: July 12, 2020, 05:08:17 AM »
It's amazing to me that there are still any states left holding out refusing to accept expanded Medicaid. wtf?

zolotiyeruki

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6038 on: July 12, 2020, 07:08:45 AM »
What constitutional rationale do you think SCOTUS would rely on to strike down the ACA?
The case was the Individual Mandate was a mandate and  therefore unconstitutional.  Roberts ruled last time that it wasn't a mandate because the penalty was tied to a tax, therefore no mandate, therefore constitutional.  Since the penalty was set to $0, they argue it is a mandate now, and therefore unconstitutional.  It is an absurdity, a mandate with no legal repercussions is not a mandate, it is a suggestion.  The suit is garbage.
The Congress of 2017 was not bound to abstain from changing the ACA or repealing it entirely.  This Congress had complete, legitimate    power to repeal the ACA when it passed the TCJA that included the provision that  lowered the individual mandate penalty to zero.

That Congress did not exercise its constitutional power to repeal the ACA will hardly be brushed aside by the Court when next term it hears the argument that it should strike down the ACA.
I'm sure that if the GOP had a filibuster-proof majority, they would have repealed it.  Thanks to the filibuster, they settled for setting the penalty to $0.

Psychstache

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6039 on: July 12, 2020, 08:43:57 AM »
It's amazing to me that there are still any states left holding out refusing to accept expanded Medicaid. wtf?

Why would you want to reward people for not working hard and pulling themselves up by their bootstraps /s

I live in one of those unexpanded states. It's baffling.

Exflyboy

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6040 on: July 12, 2020, 10:20:25 AM »
What constitutional rationale do you think SCOTUS would rely on to strike down the ACA?
The case was the Individual Mandate was a mandate and  therefore unconstitutional.  Roberts ruled last time that it wasn't a mandate because the penalty was tied to a tax, therefore no mandate, therefore constitutional.  Since the penalty was set to $0, they argue it is a mandate now, and therefore unconstitutional.  It is an absurdity, a mandate with no legal repercussions is not a mandate, it is a suggestion.  The suit is garbage.
The Congress of 2017 was not bound to abstain from changing the ACA or repealing it entirely.  This Congress had complete, legitimate    power to repeal the ACA when it passed the TCJA that included the provision that  lowered the individual mandate penalty to zero.

That Congress did not exercise its constitutional power to repeal the ACA will hardly be brushed aside by the Court when next term it hears the argument that it should strike down the ACA.
I'm sure that if the GOP had a filibuster-proof majority, they would have repealed it.  Thanks to the filibuster, they settled for setting the penalty to $0.

You mean repealed AND replaced it right?

zolotiyeruki

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6041 on: July 12, 2020, 02:07:37 PM »
What constitutional rationale do you think SCOTUS would rely on to strike down the ACA?
The case was the Individual Mandate was a mandate and  therefore unconstitutional.  Roberts ruled last time that it wasn't a mandate because the penalty was tied to a tax, therefore no mandate, therefore constitutional.  Since the penalty was set to $0, they argue it is a mandate now, and therefore unconstitutional.  It is an absurdity, a mandate with no legal repercussions is not a mandate, it is a suggestion.  The suit is garbage.
The Congress of 2017 was not bound to abstain from changing the ACA or repealing it entirely.  This Congress had complete, legitimate    power to repeal the ACA when it passed the TCJA that included the provision that  lowered the individual mandate penalty to zero.

That Congress did not exercise its constitutional power to repeal the ACA will hardly be brushed aside by the Court when next term it hears the argument that it should strike down the ACA.
I'm sure that if the GOP had a filibuster-proof majority, they would have repealed it.  Thanks to the filibuster, they settled for setting the penalty to $0.

You mean repealed AND replaced it right?
That was always the mantra, wasn't it?  I don't believe in the caricatures each side projects on the other, so I can't imagine they'd want to go cold turkey.  Even if you think they don't care about those who would lose their insurance (and if you do, you seriously need to meet some people on the other side of the political spectrum and have a good chat), it'd be political suicide.

Exflyboy

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6042 on: July 12, 2020, 02:36:16 PM »
What constitutional rationale do you think SCOTUS would rely on to strike down the ACA?
The case was the Individual Mandate was a mandate and  therefore unconstitutional.  Roberts ruled last time that it wasn't a mandate because the penalty was tied to a tax, therefore no mandate, therefore constitutional.  Since the penalty was set to $0, they argue it is a mandate now, and therefore unconstitutional.  It is an absurdity, a mandate with no legal repercussions is not a mandate, it is a suggestion.  The suit is garbage.
The Congress of 2017 was not bound to abstain from changing the ACA or repealing it entirely.  This Congress had complete, legitimate    power to repeal the ACA when it passed the TCJA that included the provision that  lowered the individual mandate penalty to zero.

That Congress did not exercise its constitutional power to repeal the ACA will hardly be brushed aside by the Court when next term it hears the argument that it should strike down the ACA.
I'm sure that if the GOP had a filibuster-proof majority, they would have repealed it.  Thanks to the filibuster, they settled for setting the penalty to $0.

You mean repealed AND replaced it right?
That was always the mantra, wasn't it?  I don't believe in the caricatures each side projects on the other, so I can't imagine they'd want to go cold turkey.  Even if you think they don't care about those who would lose their insurance (and if you do, you seriously need to meet some people on the other side of the political spectrum and have a good chat), it'd be political suicide.

Well I think thats how they lost the house in 2018 cus they had nothing to replace it with.. Is that your view?

pecunia

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6043 on: July 12, 2020, 03:34:32 PM »
I think we can than the late hero John McCain for maintaining the insurance for millions of people.  He lost his life, but his vote saved many more.

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6044 on: July 12, 2020, 03:52:16 PM »
What constitutional rationale do you think SCOTUS would rely on to strike down the ACA?
The case was the Individual Mandate was a mandate and  therefore unconstitutional.  Roberts ruled last time that it wasn't a mandate because the penalty was tied to a tax, therefore no mandate, therefore constitutional.  Since the penalty was set to $0, they argue it is a mandate now, and therefore unconstitutional.  It is an absurdity, a mandate with no legal repercussions is not a mandate, it is a suggestion.  The suit is garbage.
The Congress of 2017 was not bound to abstain from changing the ACA or repealing it entirely.  This Congress had complete, legitimate    power to repeal the ACA when it passed the TCJA that included the provision that  lowered the individual mandate penalty to zero.

That Congress did not exercise its constitutional power to repeal the ACA will hardly be brushed aside by the Court when next term it hears the argument that it should strike down the ACA.
I'm sure that if the GOP had a filibuster-proof majority, they would have repealed it.  Thanks to the filibuster, they settled for setting the penalty to $0.

The could have avoided the filibuster and used "reconciliation" to pass the repeal, that's how it was passed in the first place.  This has been one of the big arguments against it, that it was done in by using reconciliation thereby diminishing its authenticity.

The real problem is they had nothing to replace it with because it was basically a Republican plan modeled after the one done by Romney when he was governor of Massachusetts. Pretty much any other plan that requires folks with pre-existing conditions can get insurance are to the left of the ACA on the political spectrum, because those folks aren't profitable and need government involvement either forcing insurance companies to insure them, or through public healthcare of some sort (public option, Medicaid, etc). It's a shame that the insurance lobby owned enough Senators that Obama couldn't get a public option through. Taxes might have ended up slightly higher, but insurance costs would be way lower.

One only need to look at United Healthcare's stock over the last 10 years to see who the big winner is of ridiculous premiums.

sherr

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6045 on: July 12, 2020, 07:50:59 PM »
That was always the mantra, wasn't it?  I don't believe in the caricatures each side projects on the other, so I can't imagine they'd want to go cold turkey.  Even if you think they don't care about those who would lose their insurance (and if you do, you seriously need to meet some people on the other side of the political spectrum and have a good chat), it'd be political suicide.

No it wasn't "always" the mantra, unless you only count what Republicans themselves tell people on TV. The closest they ever came to repealing the ACA was the "repeal and don't replace" plan. That's the one that famously fell one vote short of passing thanks to McCain.

None of their "and replace" "plans" were popular enough within their own party to get very far. The have no "and replace" ideas. Unless of course you count Trump's "everything will be great and magical, I'll tell you about it after the election" "plan".
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 07:56:02 PM by sherr »

Exflyboy

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6046 on: July 13, 2020, 10:12:44 AM »
It would probably make me more money to actually have the ACA repealed.. based on the extra dividends the insurer will pay me through my index funds.

But I am morally outraged that the GOP would happily throw people off their crappy healthcare, so for that reason alone I will be delighted when this bogus lawsuit gets thrown out.. and even happier when (I hope) Trump gets his ass handed to him in November!

Although I'm not counting it.

jim555

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6047 on: July 14, 2020, 05:47:10 PM »
Trump administration asks U.S. Supreme Court to revive Medicaid work requirements
https://www.reuters.com/article/health-medicaid-work/trump-administration-asks-u-s-supreme-court-to-revive-medicaid-work-requirements-idUSL2N2EL24D

When you fail to change the law, have the courts do your dirty work.

Nothing is the law permits work requirements.  Some states have tried to back door a work requirement via a 1115 waiver.  The courts have rightly struck down these attempts as arbitrary and capricious. 

talltexan

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6048 on: July 16, 2020, 04:48:47 PM »
What constitutional rationale do you think SCOTUS would rely on to strike down the ACA?
The case was the Individual Mandate was a mandate and  therefore unconstitutional.  Roberts ruled last time that it wasn't a mandate because the penalty was tied to a tax, therefore no mandate, therefore constitutional.  Since the penalty was set to $0, they argue it is a mandate now, and therefore unconstitutional.  It is an absurdity, a mandate with no legal repercussions is not a mandate, it is a suggestion.  The suit is garbage.
The Congress of 2017 was not bound to abstain from changing the ACA or repealing it entirely.  This Congress had complete, legitimate    power to repeal the ACA when it passed the TCJA that included the provision that  lowered the individual mandate penalty to zero.

That Congress did not exercise its constitutional power to repeal the ACA will hardly be brushed aside by the Court when next term it hears the argument that it should strike down the ACA.
I'm sure that if the GOP had a filibuster-proof majority, they would have repealed it.  Thanks to the filibuster, they settled for setting the penalty to $0.

You mean repealed AND replaced it right?
That was always the mantra, wasn't it?  I don't believe in the caricatures each side projects on the other, so I can't imagine they'd want to go cold turkey.  Even if you think they don't care about those who would lose their insurance (and if you do, you seriously need to meet some people on the other side of the political spectrum and have a good chat), it'd be political suicide.

Well I think thats how they lost the house in 2018 cus they had nothing to replace it with.. Is that your view?

The House passed the American Health Care Act in Spring of 2017. Senate took a series of votes culminating with McCain's famous "no" vote on the "skinny repeal", which would have basically left "replace" for another action of Congress. The Senate was never able to pass anything like AHCA.

pecunia

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #6049 on: July 16, 2020, 09:48:40 PM »
I just don't get why they are so opposed to poor folks being able to go to the doctor.  Won't it help the rich people in this country to have a healthy work force to help make money for them?  Seems like a worthwhile investment and rich people have hired a lot of smart people to do their thinking for them.  How come the rich haven't told the GOP to back off a bit?  I mean, Trump is one of their own, a little crazy, but still one of their own.  He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

I can sort of understand the race thing.  They don't want healthy minorities, but doesn't the increase of riches even supersede this interest?  There is more money to be made from having people be healthy rather than sick.  Look how much money was made in the cotton fields 150 years ago.  History repeats itself, man.

Maybe, I should write a letter to the Koch brothers and their buds.  They are getting bad advice.