Author Topic: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?  (Read 42185 times)

Thegoblinchief

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6826
  • Age: 33
  • Location: SE WI
  • Lunatic urban homesteader
    • The Goblin Chief
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2014, 04:37:32 PM »
-$.04 per hour. Cool exercise. My dollars will hopefully be gainfully employed by the end of the year.
Presenter at Camp Mustache Canada 2017

Read my urban homesteading adventures here: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/food-forest-lagomorphs-and-tiny-dinos-in-the-city/

“The greatest change we need to make is from consumption to production, even if on a small scale, in our own gardens. If only 10% of us do this, there is enough for everyone. Hence the futility of revolutionaries who have no gardens, who depend on the very system they attack, and who produce words and bullets, not food and shelter.” - Bill Mollison

a.g

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Location: California
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #51 on: May 21, 2014, 07:58:37 AM »
Right now I have expensive American employee's, which are losing me $0.33 an hour. Going forward I plan to outsource, and every year I plan to give my worker's a $2.45 raise, which means:

In 2015 I will be employing 1 full time Indian employee
In 2016 I will be employing 1 full time Chinese employee
In 2020 I will be employing 1 full time New Zealand employee, or nearly 7 full time Indian employees
and so on and so on..

Quite the little operation I'm setting up. (this was a simplistic take, ignoring compounding. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 08:19:42 AM by a.g »

dude

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1799
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #52 on: May 21, 2014, 08:19:50 AM »
I just did this very mental exercise a month ago while on a walk.

$25/hour (from investments)
$35/hour (investments + pension in 9 years)
$50/hour (all of the above + Soc. Sec. in ~20 years)

Yes, I'm counting some of those chickens before they're hatched, but I consider them very safe so I include them in the future. Add in your own Soc. Security or other future benefits you've already earned/accrued, it might make you feel even richer.

Somewhat similar numbers but only 5 years until the pension . . .

CheapskateWife

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1034
  • Location: Central Texas (but not cool enough for Austin)
  • Can I FIRE yet?
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2014, 08:23:14 AM »

Really puts things in perspective when you consider how hard someone else has to work for that kind of cash. I'm not saying I didn't "work hard" to save it, I'm just saying it feels good knowing I will never have to struggle to earn a minimum wage since my stache already does it for me.


That is a fantastic attitude, and also really eye opening about the value of MY time and how I spend it.

Nancy

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 798
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2014, 08:38:22 AM »
I'm happy to report my stache employs approximately one full time minimum wage employee. I feel very fortunate to be in this position, particularly considering there are many people trying to get by on a minimum wage salary.

Really puts things in perspective when you consider how hard someone else has to work for that kind of cash. I'm not saying I didn't "work hard" to save it, I'm just saying it feels good knowing I will never have to struggle to earn a minimum wage since my stache already does it for me.

That gratitude is such an awesome attitude, love it.

We are very fortunate, those of us posting on the MMM site, for a number of reasons.  Getting this perspective on my stache really helps me appreciate how lucky I am, versus a feeling of it not being enough (which I rarely experience, but understand why one might, in their striving for FIRE).

Completely agree!

face-punched

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Age: 29
  • Location: Austin, TX
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2014, 08:55:30 AM »
My main point though is it really doesn't matter if yours is bigger than mine.

Absolutely. 

As I've said before, the two most important variables for age when you FIRE seem to be: when you find the concept of ER, and how much financial baggage you have when you do.  Some of us were lucky to find it early (and even have it available at the right time), others just didn't run across it or it wasn't really "out there".  No big deal.

(Also I'm not at $30+/hour.. yet. :) )

My main point though is it really doesn't matter if yours is bigger than mine. My $7.50 is 1/4 of your $30, but it's > milla's $1, and milla's $1 is > someone else's negative $1, and on and

(Emphasis added.)

Oh man, I didn't think about it the other way, being in debt and paying interest.

Say you're 91k in debt (mix of student loans, car, whatever) at ~7% (what student loans often go for nowadays).  That means you're paying 6735 in interest annually.  To pay that, you'd need to work half that 1700 hours at minimum wage of 7.50.

Or, in other words, you have to work extra at a part time minimum wage job to make up for that interest*.  Yikes.

*Now you may not actually do this, but make enough at your normal job, but the point is just like you can think of your stache as an extra person working an extra job for you, you can think of the interest accruing as you needing to work another job.  Ouch.

Ouch. I am a fairly low earner, not terrible, but below 30k and I just did the math. My student loans mean I have to pay back my loans with a $1/hr pay cut. It is a really interesting view of what exactly interest means.
WHAP....OWWW. "Oh, thanks."

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 26082
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #56 on: May 21, 2014, 09:00:06 AM »
Ouch. I am a fairly low earner, not terrible, but below 30k and I just did the math. My student loans mean I have to pay back my loans with a $1/hr pay cut. It is a really interesting view of what exactly interest means.

Sucky now, but sounds like a good source of inspiration!
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

face-punched

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Age: 29
  • Location: Austin, TX
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2014, 09:06:46 AM »
Ouch. I am a fairly low earner, not terrible, but below 30k and I just did the math. My student loans mean I have to pay back my loans with a $1/hr pay cut. It is a really interesting view of what exactly interest means.

Sucky now, but sounds like a good source of inspiration!

It certainly is. My wife and I just started the mustachian journey mid-February, so aren't too bummed about where we are starting, but it is good to keep it in perspective about why our hair should be on fire paying off debt emergencies and why there is no such thing as "good" debt. (At least not until you have the money set aside earning at a higher rate than the interest paid.)
WHAP....OWWW. "Oh, thanks."

Mississippi Mudstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1527
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Danielsville, GA
    • A Riving Home - Ramblings of a Recusant Woodworker
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #58 on: May 21, 2014, 09:15:41 AM »
My soldiers are apparently crappy '90s waiters who don't earn tips, because they are pulling in $2/hr right now. But, hey, they've gotten a $1/hr raise in the last 6 months, so I can't complain about that :)
Never. Give up.

My Woodworking Blog

SethBahookey

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 207
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Madison, WI
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #59 on: May 21, 2014, 12:47:27 PM »
.54 cents at 1700 hours/year. I got a ways to go but hey! at least I'm making something :)

deborah

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5737
  • Location: Travelling
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #60 on: May 21, 2014, 04:18:20 PM »
It is also interesting to compare how much they are "earning" (based on 4% SWR) as against how much they are really earning (12 month's ago value compared to today's value less any extra money I have put in) - this actually shows how lazy they are. I think mine are quite productive!

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 26082
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #61 on: May 21, 2014, 04:41:31 PM »
It is also interesting to compare how much they are "earning" (based on 4% SWR) as against how much they are really earning (12 month's ago value compared to today's value less any extra money I have put in) - this actually shows how lazy they are. I think mine are quite productive!

Well sure, it's nice looking at that in an up year.  Market is up 16% (or real estate ROI was 16%, or whatever), your workers made you 4X as much money!

But think about the down years, when your workers lose you money (and the bigger your portfolio, the more per hour they're losing you).  ;)

Since the 4% rule is designed to smooth that out over time, you can use that and then ignore whether your portfolio was up or down, and by how much, to see what your workers would support making you in a typical year.  :)

That is fun though.  "Whee" I think is the phrase for it.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 05:00:54 PM by arebelspy »
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

Zaga

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1439
  • Age: 37
  • Location: North of Pittsburgh, PA
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #62 on: May 21, 2014, 04:55:42 PM »
Our invested assets are earning us about $4.89 an hour, and our debts will cost us about $1.72 an hour average over this year (according to my spreadsheet, could be lower if more is paid down on them than I expect right now). 

That nets out to about $3.17 an hour earned by our investments.  We're moving up!

Roland of Gilead

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1558
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #63 on: May 21, 2014, 05:04:52 PM »
That is fun though.  "Whee" I think is the phrase for it.

Yes, if I count 2013 where our soldiers earned about $80/hr because of the 30% gain in the market, I almost visualize them as little hedge fund managers.

DoubleDown

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1969
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #64 on: May 22, 2014, 09:45:32 AM »
Kind of like the thread about our amazing world with grocery stores and running water, I think it's pretty incredible to be earning money by doing nothing, no matter what the amount is. If you're earning $0.50/hour right now, it's still pretty incredible that someone would walk up to you and put two quarters in your hand, every single hour, every working day, for doing absolutely nothing. And it just keeps increasing.

Then when you get to the end of your career and your passive investments equal or exceed all the money you need to live every hour, it's truly mind boggling.
"Not all quotes on the internet are accurate" -- Abraham Lincoln

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7289
  • Registered member
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #65 on: May 22, 2014, 10:01:51 AM »
Kind of like the thread about our amazing world with grocery stores and running water, I think it's pretty incredible to be earning money by doing nothing, no matter what the amount is. If you're earning $0.50/hour right now, it's still pretty incredible that someone would walk up to you and put two quarters in your hand, every single hour, every working day, for doing absolutely nothing. And it just keeps increasing.

Then when you get to the end of your career and your passive investments equal or exceed all the money you need to live every hour, it's truly mind boggling.

It's amazing, but not for doing "nothing".  At least most of us had to work for the money we invested, and then had to choose to invest that money in exchange for profits vs spending the money in exchange for goods

DoubleDown

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1969
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #66 on: May 22, 2014, 10:37:47 AM »
Kind of like the thread about our amazing world with grocery stores and running water, I think it's pretty incredible to be earning money by doing nothing, no matter what the amount is. If you're earning $0.50/hour right now, it's still pretty incredible that someone would walk up to you and put two quarters in your hand, every single hour, every working day, for doing absolutely nothing. And it just keeps increasing.

Then when you get to the end of your career and your passive investments equal or exceed all the money you need to live every hour, it's truly mind boggling.

It's amazing, but not for doing "nothing".  At least most of us had to work for the money we invested, and then had to choose to invest that money in exchange for profits vs spending the money in exchange for goods

True, at least for the amount we invested. But all the compounded gains over the years and continuing passive income is "free"; we don't have to do anything to continue reaping it. I got a 401k statement the other day that showed the total amount, and the portion I contributed over the years -- the amount I put in was something like only 1/3 of the total value! Now I'm not contributing to it any longer, but it continues to go up -- amazing (to me)!
"Not all quotes on the internet are accurate" -- Abraham Lincoln

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7289
  • Registered member
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #67 on: May 22, 2014, 11:04:47 AM »
Kind of like the thread about our amazing world with grocery stores and running water, I think it's pretty incredible to be earning money by doing nothing, no matter what the amount is. If you're earning $0.50/hour right now, it's still pretty incredible that someone would walk up to you and put two quarters in your hand, every single hour, every working day, for doing absolutely nothing. And it just keeps increasing.

Then when you get to the end of your career and your passive investments equal or exceed all the money you need to live every hour, it's truly mind boggling.

It's amazing, but not for doing "nothing".  At least most of us had to work for the money we invested, and then had to choose to invest that money in exchange for profits vs spending the money in exchange for goods

True, at least for the amount we invested. But all the compounded gains over the years and continuing passive income is "free"; we don't have to do anything to continue reaping it. I got a 401k statement the other day that showed the total amount, and the portion I contributed over the years -- the amount I put in was something like only 1/3 of the total value! Now I'm not contributing to it any longer, but it continues to go up -- amazing (to me)!

You don't have to do anything to continue reaping it, but that doesn't make it free.  It's delayed compensation for past acts.  Would you call a pension after 30 years at a company "free" money?

strider3700

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 516
  • Location: northern BC
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #68 on: May 22, 2014, 11:11:23 AM »
In the original thread I mentioned that every single 1 cent per hour soldier (24 hour day my soldiers work around the clock not just the 40 hours a week I work)  costs me $2190 to purchase.  That is a hell of a lot of work.

What I find most impressive however isn't the fact that I'm getting X per hour.   It's the fact that those little soldiers are busy making more soldiers and not that far down the road they'll be making more soldiers then I am. 

I had the idea almost 15 years ago after a day off from work having a mini vacation I sat down and did the math figuring out what I had to have in the bank to give me enough income to not need to work and every day be a mini vacation.  I assumed a paid off house and I pulling a number out of my ass  5% returns.     At this time I had a decent job,  lived with my parents, had a few thousand in the bank and no debt.    The number I came up with then is actually very close (within 100k) to my number today.  I've added a wife, and kids and financially the only big difference is I now have a house and a decent sized mortgage.     Had I acted on that idea back then I'd be done now.   Oh well.



dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7289
  • Registered member
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #69 on: May 22, 2014, 11:17:20 AM »
In the original thread I mentioned that every single 1 cent per hour soldier (24 hour day my soldiers work around the clock not just the 40 hours a week I work)  costs me $2190 to purchase.  That is a hell of a lot of work.

What I find most impressive however isn't the fact that I'm getting X per hour.   It's the fact that those little soldiers are busy making more soldiers and not that far down the road they'll be making more soldiers then I am. 

I had the idea almost 15 years ago after a day off from work having a mini vacation I sat down and did the math figuring out what I had to have in the bank to give me enough income to not need to work and every day be a mini vacation.  I assumed a paid off house and I pulling a number out of my ass  5% returns.     At this time I had a decent job,  lived with my parents, had a few thousand in the bank and no debt.    The number I came up with then is actually very close (within 100k) to my number today.  I've added a wife, and kids and financially the only big difference is I now have a house and a decent sized mortgage.     Had I acted on that idea back then I'd be done now.   Oh well.

This compounding effect is a reason I think "upgrade" style games like cookie clicker (http://orteil.dashnet.org/cookieclicker/) are great for kids.  All you have to do is think a little laterally and realize the same principles apply to real life.

strider3700

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 516
  • Location: northern BC
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #70 on: May 22, 2014, 11:25:50 AM »
holy crap.   I played that until I realized that it was pointless  many billions of cookies later and never once put together that my initial clicking was like my initial saving.  You are correct of course.   If they made it more obviously linked to money  then it would be even better.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7289
  • Registered member
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #71 on: May 22, 2014, 11:27:39 AM »
holy crap.   I played that until I realized that it was pointless  many billions of cookies later and never once put together that my initial clicking was like my initial saving.  You are correct of course.   If they made it more obviously linked to money  then it would be even better.

There's a similar game on the iphone (and others?) called "make it rain," where instead of clicking you swipe a stack of dollar bills.  Same genre, though.

strider3700

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 516
  • Location: northern BC
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #72 on: May 22, 2014, 12:02:21 PM »
here's a page displaying the same calculation but for Bill Gates stash and updating in realtime. 
http://www.salary-money.com/bill-gates-salary-50000000000.php#.U347M3Wx20g

They used 50 billion as his networth.  In reality he's in the mid 70's is my understanding.

DoubleDown

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1969
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #73 on: May 22, 2014, 01:31:04 PM »
You don't have to do anything to continue reaping it, but that doesn't make it free.  It's delayed compensation for past acts.  Would you call a pension after 30 years at a company "free" money?

I must not be following you, or maybe we're even saying the same thing. I'm saying that yes, you and I had to work to earn the initial investment, and you're right we gave up buying stuff at the time. But if ten years ago I invested $100k, and it turned into $200k just through compounding over the decade, then it's now producing income that I never earned -- at least, that's how I'm looking at it.

At a 4% SWR, the amount I invested ($100k) would produce $4k/year. The additional $100k that came from compounding would produce another $4k/year. So I'd be getting $8k/year income, but half that came from compounded returns that I didn't have to do a thing to earn (just had to let it sit there).

When you get into even longer time periods, then the compounding really dominates the initial investment (like with my 401k, where compounded returns already exceed my investment 2:1). Once I start withdrawing it more than a decade from now, it will likely be a 5:1 or 6:1 ratio. That snowball effect makes the compounded returns end up dwarfing the amount I put in. So for only investing a little work earnings long ago, we can get a pretty high salary down the road, that could be 5-10x what we put in.
"Not all quotes on the internet are accurate" -- Abraham Lincoln

Cheddar Stacker

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3758
  • Age: 39
  • Location: USA
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #74 on: May 22, 2014, 02:29:18 PM »
It's the triple value of income. I referenced this last night to my wife, sort of. She was discussing a relatives' purchase of a $65 shirt for a 5 year old, and I told her they had to "earn" $110 to buy that crap after considering income and sales taxes.

Yeah, I think you're both saying roughly the same thing.

It's not unearned. You earned it by deferring your use of it, and by recognizing the power of compound interest, tax deferral, etc.

Yes, your "earnings" are now "earning", but that all came from your initial decision to provide for your future instead of fulfilling an impulse. Don't sell yourself short DoubleDown you earned it! And Dragoncar, you're correct that it's not free, but as DoubleDown points out, it is quite amazing to see the power of compound interest at work.
Indecision may or may not be my problem.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7289
  • Registered member
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #75 on: May 22, 2014, 02:54:11 PM »
It's the triple value of income. I referenced this last night to my wife, sort of. She was discussing a relatives' purchase of a $65 shirt for a 5 year old, and I told her they had to "earn" $110 to buy that crap after considering income and sales taxes.

Yeah, I think you're both saying roughly the same thing.

It's not unearned. You earned it by deferring your use of it, and by recognizing the power of compound interest, tax deferral, etc.

Yes, your "earnings" are now "earning", but that all came from your initial decision to provide for your future instead of fulfilling an impulse. Don't sell yourself short DoubleDown you earned it! And Dragoncar, you're correct that it's not free, but as DoubleDown points out, it is quite amazing to see the power of compound interest at work.

That's cool and all, but I'm not seeing why he calls it "triple" value.   I also did agree it's amazing.

It's amazing

Anyways, yeah as Cheddar says, it's not money that you never earned.  It's money that you previously earned, maybe a long time ago, but not like, today.

Cheddar Stacker

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3758
  • Age: 39
  • Location: USA
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #76 on: May 22, 2014, 03:04:18 PM »
My apologies dragoncar, you did say it was amazing. That's amazing that I used the same damn word without noticing you used it as well.

I think this quote from the post is why he calls it the triple value of income:
Quote
Let’s assume you make $100,000 a year. If you spend everything you earn, your take-home value at the end of the year is roughly $80,000. If you instead put the majority of your income into your retirement, HSA, and investment accounts, you end up getting $263,663 of value out of that salary!

$80,000 * 3 = $240,000, which is close to the $263,663 your salary could be worth by his calculations. Not saying I agree with all the assumptions, but it's a pretty nice exercise in understanding what your earning power is really worth in a spend vs. save calculation.
Indecision may or may not be my problem.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 26082
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #77 on: May 22, 2014, 04:58:13 PM »
Anyways, yeah as Cheddar says, it's not money that you never earned.  It's money that you previously earned, maybe a long time ago, but not like, today.

You guys are just seeing this different ways.  He's saying if you earn $100 and it compounds to $1000, 900 of it is "free," and that you earned only $100. You're saying that you earned all $1000.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7289
  • Registered member
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #78 on: May 22, 2014, 05:13:19 PM »
Anyways, yeah as Cheddar says, it's not money that you never earned.  It's money that you previously earned, maybe a long time ago, but not like, today.

You guys are just seeing this different ways.  He's saying if you earn $100 and it compounds to $1000, 900 of it is "free," and that you earned only $100. You're saying that you earned all $1000.

Yes.  It's not like I just found some money on the ground, it's a result of effort.  When I work for two weeks (one pay period) and then get paid a week later, I don't say "hey, I just got free money because I'm on vacation TODAY."  When I put money in the stock market, I am buying future returns for the price of opportunity, or the other stuff I could do with that cash.  It's cool that I can do that, but it's not like I just found fifteen gold coins in a chest in the middle of the woods.

Latito

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #79 on: May 22, 2014, 05:17:02 PM »
Oh to be young and carrying student loan debt and a mortgage.  I end up paying $3.33 every working hour in interest on my outstanding debt.  If I sold my home, paid off the debt and invested the rest I'd be earning $0.47 an hour though.

madgeylou

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1850
    • Be Less Crazy
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #80 on: May 22, 2014, 05:19:13 PM »
I love this exercise! My stash is earning me ~$1/hour at present.

Roland of Gilead

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1558
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #81 on: May 22, 2014, 06:05:44 PM »
I have some Seal team six dollars in my trading account.   Yesterday I bought a stock at $2.58 and today sold it for $2.88, 20,000 shares, $6000 in a span of 22 hours.

$272 an hour soldiers.  God bless our money military.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 26082
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #82 on: May 22, 2014, 07:08:02 PM »
Anyways, yeah as Cheddar says, it's not money that you never earned.  It's money that you previously earned, maybe a long time ago, but not like, today.

You guys are just seeing this different ways.  He's saying if you earn $100 and it compounds to $1000, 900 of it is "free," and that you earned only $100. You're saying that you earned all $1000.

Yes.  It's not like I just found some money on the ground, it's a result of effort.  When I work for two weeks (one pay period) and then get paid a week later, I don't say "hey, I just got free money because I'm on vacation TODAY."  When I put money in the stock market, I am buying future returns for the price of opportunity, or the other stuff I could do with that cash.  It's cool that I can do that, but it's not like I just found fifteen gold coins in a chest in the middle of the woods.

Agreed.

But the actual amount you "earned" (nominal dollars) is just the 100.

You're getting extra money by taking it later, due to the time value of money and investing it, and that's what DoubleDown is saying.

He's calling that extra money that came from waiting "free."

You apparently don't understand that point of view, and that's okay.  :)

I see what both of you are saying.

It's pretty neat, that you can just wait to get payment and you get paid what you were owed plus a bunch extra.  Whether you view that extra as earned, or not.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

Caoineag

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 364
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Denver
    • My Journal
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #83 on: May 22, 2014, 08:09:26 PM »
$2.94/ hour liquid portfolio
$5.60/hour networth portfolio

2 person portfolio though.
Still have a ways to go but the progress has been speeding up.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7289
  • Registered member
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #84 on: May 22, 2014, 08:54:49 PM »
Anyways, yeah as Cheddar says, it's not money that you never earned.  It's money that you previously earned, maybe a long time ago, but not like, today.

You guys are just seeing this different ways.  He's saying if you earn $100 and it compounds to $1000, 900 of it is "free," and that you earned only $100. You're saying that you earned all $1000.

Yes.  It's not like I just found some money on the ground, it's a result of effort.  When I work for two weeks (one pay period) and then get paid a week later, I don't say "hey, I just got free money because I'm on vacation TODAY."  When I put money in the stock market, I am buying future returns for the price of opportunity, or the other stuff I could do with that cash.  It's cool that I can do that, but it's not like I just found fifteen gold coins in a chest in the middle of the woods.

Agreed.

But the actual amount you "earned" (nominal dollars) is just the 100.

You're getting extra money by taking it later, due to the time value of money and investing it, and that's what DoubleDown is saying.

He's calling that extra money that came from waiting "free."

You apparently don't understand that point of view, and that's okay.  :)

I see what both of you are saying.

It's pretty neat, that you can just wait to get payment and you get paid what you were owed plus a bunch extra.  Whether you view that extra as earned, or not.

I understand it, but I don't agree with it.  Free is not the correct word.   I want to know if pension money is considered "free"

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 26082
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #85 on: May 22, 2014, 09:09:03 PM »
I understand it, but I don't agree with it.  Free is not the correct word.   I want to know if pension money is considered "free"

It's fine that you don't agree.  Others see it differently than you.

And yes, under that thinking, some of that pension may be "free".

Some of it is deferred compensation, some of it is earnings on that deferred compensation.

If you and your employer contributed $100k total to your pension fund and the value of it 30 years later is 900k, then you could say that 100k of it was earned, 900k was "free."

It's not "free" under the way you want to use free, but I can see where he's coming from.  It's certainly not earned money.  It's money that comes from waiting to take the compensation, and taking it later, due to investing and the time value of money.

Earned money + unearned investment income = total.

You want to say it's all earned (including the unearned part - it's not earned though).  He wants to say the unearned part is free (it's not free though).

Neither of you is 'right,' per se, just using different definitions and meanings.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 09:11:57 PM by arebelspy »
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7289
  • Registered member
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #86 on: May 22, 2014, 09:22:38 PM »
I understand it, but I don't agree with it.  Free is not the correct word.   I want to know if pension money is considered "free"

It's fine that you don't agree.  Others see it differently than you.

And yes, under that thinking, some of that pension may be "free".

Some of it is deferred compensation, some of it is earnings on that deferred compensation.

If you and your employer contributed $100k total to your pension fund and the value of it 30 years later is 900k, then you could say that 100k of it was earned, 900k was "free."

It's not "free" under the way you want to use free, but I can see where he's coming from.  It's certainly not earned money.  It's money that comes from waiting to take the compensation, and taking it later, due to investing and the time value of money.

Earned money + unearned investment income = total.

You want to say it's all earned (including the unearned part - it's not earned though).  He wants to say the unearned part is free (it's not free though).

Neither of you is 'right,' per se, just using different definitions and meanings.

Yeah except I'm using the correct definition ;-)


Ottawa

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 946
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #87 on: May 23, 2014, 06:49:27 AM »
We have anthropomorphized our dollars as soldiers; as per the OP. Without those first 100 soldiers (that YOU earn) they would not earn more soldiers for YOU.  Technically it is not YOU that earns the next 900.   The soldiers are the ones doing the earning.  Those first 100 soldiers are putting in the hard work to recruit soldiers at a certain rate.  As more soldiers are recruited - they too are employed in the recruitment drive.

You might think those next 900 soldiers are 'free', but they most certainly are not!  Those soldiers are laying their lives on the line for you!  (The USA did not acquire its freedom for free!).  Soon they will form an army. 

Although you have some say in the strategy the soldiers employ, frequently you don't really know what they are up to.  Some regiments (even divisions) make poor choices and do their own thing.  Sometimes they die.  Those are your anguished screams when they do.  Some regiments make excellent choices and go on a recruiting spree.  That's you giggling when they do.

I'm off to check on my army now...


Signing up for Tangerine Bank?  Let's both earn some cash!  Here is my Tangerine Key: 43684467S1  Cheers.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 26082
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #88 on: May 23, 2014, 07:10:10 AM »
I understand it, but I don't agree with it.  Free is not the correct word.   I want to know if pension money is considered "free"

It's fine that you don't agree.  Others see it differently than you.

And yes, under that thinking, some of that pension may be "free".

Some of it is deferred compensation, some of it is earnings on that deferred compensation.

If you and your employer contributed $100k total to your pension fund and the value of it 30 years later is 900k, then you could say that 100k of it was earned, 900k was "free."

It's not "free" under the way you want to use free, but I can see where he's coming from.  It's certainly not earned money.  It's money that comes from waiting to take the compensation, and taking it later, due to investing and the time value of money.

Earned money + unearned investment income = total.

You want to say it's all earned (including the unearned part - it's not earned though).  He wants to say the unearned part is free (it's not free though).

Neither of you is 'right,' per se, just using different definitions and meanings.

Yeah except I'm using the correct definition ;-)

If you say so.

The IRS doesn't agree, and calls those extra earnings something else depending on the investment - capital gains, for example, is a common name for them.  But your wanting to call them "earned" is no more correct, IMO, then him wanting to call them "free."

I can see why one would call them either one (you "earned" them by waiting to take it and investing, they're "free" because they came not directly from labor but something else), but I don't agree with either definition, but I'm fine with someone else using either one if it makes them happy.

Feel free to be just as wrong, in a different way though.  :)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

DoubleDown

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1969
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #89 on: May 23, 2014, 08:52:45 AM »
If there's one thing this thread has demonstrated, it's that I'm right and dragoncar is wrong.

Kidding! And dragoncar is still amazing.
"Not all quotes on the internet are accurate" -- Abraham Lincoln

Fonzico

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 143
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #90 on: May 23, 2014, 09:24:18 AM »
4 cents an hour... Yep... $0.04 per hour!!! At least it's no longer negative!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I gotcha beat! Mine are making a whopping $0.027/hr :) But like you said, at least it's not negative... and it will be going up steadily from here! I can't wait to play this game again in 6 months.

seanc0x0

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 297
  • Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #91 on: May 23, 2014, 12:10:36 PM »
This thread has inspired me to add a new row to my portfolio tracking spreadsheet's summary page:  Hourly Wage.

For mine, I'm using 1950 hours/year, as that is how my employer calculates my rate, though 4 weeks of that are vacation.  As of this week, that number is $0.04/hr, but that's 4x what it was the week before! :)

ShelMarieTX

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • Minimalist Musings
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #92 on: May 23, 2014, 12:56:27 PM »
You're assuming that 4% is a hard and fast rate.  I earn quite a bit more than 4% by trading options. 

Standard # of hours calculating an hourly rate is 2080.
Author of Minimalist Musings
Future Digital Nomad

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 26082
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #93 on: May 23, 2014, 12:59:14 PM »
You're assuming that 4% is a hard and fast rate.  I earn quite a bit more than 4% by trading options. 

Standard # of hours calculating an hourly rate is 2080.

Both of these assumptions have been explained upthread.

Use whatever assumptions you want.  :)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

Roland of Gilead

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1558
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #94 on: May 23, 2014, 03:09:18 PM »
Drat, 4000 of my soldiers got drafted by Uncle Sam.

#$%@ estimated tax payments.

CheapskateWife

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1034
  • Location: Central Texas (but not cool enough for Austin)
  • Can I FIRE yet?
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #95 on: June 05, 2014, 08:19:27 AM »
This whole conversation about our soldiers reminds me of that exchange between the Cdr. and XO on Battlestar Galactica..."We have to start making babies."

Soldiers making babies makes for badass babies!

gdgyva

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 115
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Washington DC
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #96 on: June 05, 2014, 09:22:19 AM »
I started late.....one of those who wishes he knew then, what he knows now

But my DW and I have made good strides in the last 15 years

In the year 2000, our answer would have been pennies

Today, our answer is around $ 24.00 and hour

We have another 7 years or so with me working, and 4 for her.....we will add considerably to that number during that time

If we count our debt we had in 2000, we were way in the negative....so feeling much better now
"Most of the shadows of this life are caused by our standing in our own sunshine"

Ralph Waldo Emerson

JoyBlogette

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 248
  • Location: Canada
    • My Journal
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #97 on: June 05, 2014, 09:37:12 AM »
$5.80 per hour.  My soldiers could use a promotion.

MidwestGal

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 117
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #98 on: June 05, 2014, 09:56:11 AM »
Currently well under a dollar.  We're working on recruitment presently.

sheepstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2429
Re: What are your soldiers (dollars) paid per hour?
« Reply #99 on: June 05, 2014, 09:57:22 AM »
Having a small stash, I find it less depressing to figure out how many minimum-wage hours my soldier is working for me.

4% of stash divided by min. wage in NY divided by 52 weeks = 14.5
So having my stash is roughly the equivalent of picking up a minimum wage shift both days of the weekend.  I'm so productive!

Maybe this magnifies swings in value too much.  Last month it was only the equivalent of 14 hours worth.